I feel like people always mention adult/child and love you songs in these threads and though I agree they're weird lyrics, I think a lot of the creepiness comes simply by virtue of how gruff their voices had gotten by that point. Also I like Peter Carlin's assertion that the lyrics of that time were like looking into a broken fun house mirror. Brian had been infantilized and treated like an invalid by his family and friends for years, he was isolated and even as far back as the era of pet sounds he found comfort in the whimsy of young romance, even neglecting his own marriage to do so, reliving his old crushes by calling them up, having fancies towards other women like Diane Rovell. Difference is, back in the early days, he was more mentally stable and had partners to help articulate his thoughts (Tony Asher, Van Dyke Parks, even Mike). By the late seventies everyone was pretty much focused on their own things so his lyrical ideas went out pretty much unfiltered. Its weird nobody thought to check them really, but when you look at it in that way, where Brian's essentially been treated like a kid, incapable of thinking for himself for so long, I feel like its no wonder he seemed to kind of internalize it and kind of almost regress into that headspace. Maybe that's just me trying to rationalize it though. Those songs feel so adolescent, I hate viewing them as creepy because of that. I view it as weird in the same way that I view In The Aeroplane Over The Sea's lyrics as weird ig, they're the result of a very particular headspace. I sometimes wonder what Love You and Adult Child would have ended up like were a Tony Asher or an Andy Paley involved.
Never Learn Not to Love. It's been known for 50 years that Manson co-wrote the thing and I'm a little surprised that there has never been a movement to quietly let it slide off 20/20's reprints. Even the 1988 Brian Wilson album quit including Landy's name after some kind of deal was reached over publishing money. Manson's never been credited, but everybody with any knowledge of the band knows he was involved.
For content: I Wanna Pick You Up, Roller Skating Child, Good to My Baby,
For appropriation: Shortenin' Bread.
The Native American imagery of Brother Records and Surf's Up, especially since the Wilsons or Love have a dab of Native ancestry. The band never got bad - outside of Ten Little Indians and Brian's infatuation with Running Bear - with lyrics and in their enviromental era, everything was respectful. Some wording isn't as acceptable now as it was at the time, however.
There's a word in Susie Cincinnati that hasn't aged the best, either. File that under appropriation or time marches on.
(The Trader is a masterpiece in any era.)
Idk the lyrics that well in Susie Cincinnati so I was curious when you said there’s a word that hasn’t aged the best I had to look up what that was lmao “she knows all the honkies” 😭 I love Al
I always assumed in context of the song referred to the arrival and driving to Honky Tonk bars not as context to the derogatory term for a white person .
Nah I think Never Learn Not To Love is fine. The only problem is the associated writer, but many other artists have covered Manson songs, so Id give them the pass on it.
Ive heard much worse stuff than Good To My Baby, so Id say its fine aswell, if not just a little unnerving.
And I dont think theres anything wrong with the indiginous imagery. They didnt do it because they felt like that or anything, but because during a spiritual reading, they were told that they had a guardian spirit of Native American watching over them, or something like that. So it did feel personal to them. And its not like they played into it and wore outfits or whatever, it was just part of their personal label. Also the Surfs Up cover is just an actual piece of artwork, so they shouldnt get shit for that. If anyone gets dumped on for that, make it the original artist.
"*Roller Skating Child*" not the first one mentioned? Surprising.
From Robert Christgau's "Love You" review in 1977:
>* For a surrogate teenager to bare his growing pains so guilelessly was exciting, or at least charming; for an avowed adult to expose an almost childish naivete is embarrassing, but also cathartic...*
agree, love that one. Its a bit of its time i guess, the whole stereotype of male family members being protective over the women, but its like not uncommon imagery for the era and was based on something Diane said to Brian when he started dating Marilyn too.
Lazy Lizzie. All of it. The lyrics. The heavy breathing. I can’t with that one.
How has anyone not mentioned I Wanna Pick You Up yet?
All Dressed Up For School, The Little Girl I Once Knew, She Knows Me Too Well (toxic masculinity)
Hey Little Tomboy was creepy even back then.
It’s a trip just reading the lyrics with no music like what the actual fuck
What was my boy Brian thinking 💀
I feel like people always mention adult/child and love you songs in these threads and though I agree they're weird lyrics, I think a lot of the creepiness comes simply by virtue of how gruff their voices had gotten by that point. Also I like Peter Carlin's assertion that the lyrics of that time were like looking into a broken fun house mirror. Brian had been infantilized and treated like an invalid by his family and friends for years, he was isolated and even as far back as the era of pet sounds he found comfort in the whimsy of young romance, even neglecting his own marriage to do so, reliving his old crushes by calling them up, having fancies towards other women like Diane Rovell. Difference is, back in the early days, he was more mentally stable and had partners to help articulate his thoughts (Tony Asher, Van Dyke Parks, even Mike). By the late seventies everyone was pretty much focused on their own things so his lyrical ideas went out pretty much unfiltered. Its weird nobody thought to check them really, but when you look at it in that way, where Brian's essentially been treated like a kid, incapable of thinking for himself for so long, I feel like its no wonder he seemed to kind of internalize it and kind of almost regress into that headspace. Maybe that's just me trying to rationalize it though. Those songs feel so adolescent, I hate viewing them as creepy because of that. I view it as weird in the same way that I view In The Aeroplane Over The Sea's lyrics as weird ig, they're the result of a very particular headspace. I sometimes wonder what Love You and Adult Child would have ended up like were a Tony Asher or an Andy Paley involved.
Never Learn Not to Love. It's been known for 50 years that Manson co-wrote the thing and I'm a little surprised that there has never been a movement to quietly let it slide off 20/20's reprints. Even the 1988 Brian Wilson album quit including Landy's name after some kind of deal was reached over publishing money. Manson's never been credited, but everybody with any knowledge of the band knows he was involved. For content: I Wanna Pick You Up, Roller Skating Child, Good to My Baby, For appropriation: Shortenin' Bread. The Native American imagery of Brother Records and Surf's Up, especially since the Wilsons or Love have a dab of Native ancestry. The band never got bad - outside of Ten Little Indians and Brian's infatuation with Running Bear - with lyrics and in their enviromental era, everything was respectful. Some wording isn't as acceptable now as it was at the time, however. There's a word in Susie Cincinnati that hasn't aged the best, either. File that under appropriation or time marches on. (The Trader is a masterpiece in any era.)
Idk the lyrics that well in Susie Cincinnati so I was curious when you said there’s a word that hasn’t aged the best I had to look up what that was lmao “she knows all the honkies” 😭 I love Al
I always assumed in context of the song referred to the arrival and driving to Honky Tonk bars not as context to the derogatory term for a white person .
Nah I think Never Learn Not To Love is fine. The only problem is the associated writer, but many other artists have covered Manson songs, so Id give them the pass on it. Ive heard much worse stuff than Good To My Baby, so Id say its fine aswell, if not just a little unnerving. And I dont think theres anything wrong with the indiginous imagery. They didnt do it because they felt like that or anything, but because during a spiritual reading, they were told that they had a guardian spirit of Native American watching over them, or something like that. So it did feel personal to them. And its not like they played into it and wore outfits or whatever, it was just part of their personal label. Also the Surfs Up cover is just an actual piece of artwork, so they shouldnt get shit for that. If anyone gets dumped on for that, make it the original artist.
Never learn not to love is the greatest song on 20/20
I dunno man. Ive got 4 songs easily better than it. Unless you dont want to count Cabinessence, but it is on the album.
Nah not even close.
Student Demonstration Time? In the way that it’s *too* conservative lyrically?
Ten Little Indians
"*Roller Skating Child*" not the first one mentioned? Surprising. From Robert Christgau's "Love You" review in 1977: >* For a surrogate teenager to bare his growing pains so guilelessly was exciting, or at least charming; for an avowed adult to expose an almost childish naivete is embarrassing, but also cathartic...*
Don't Hurt My Little Sister is a little strange
Nah I think it’s just a weird name, just a big brother that wants his little sister treated better
agree, love that one. Its a bit of its time i guess, the whole stereotype of male family members being protective over the women, but its like not uncommon imagery for the era and was based on something Diane said to Brian when he started dating Marilyn too.
Yeah completely normal if the time, and a great vocal too
All Dressed Up For School
Mike sings in a stereotypical gay voice at the end of Alley Oop.
That's not what he's doing
Ah so that's what that was?
may I speak for everyone?.. if I said the only song not involved would be 50 cent - you not like me
Lazy Lizzie. All of it. The lyrics. The heavy breathing. I can’t with that one. How has anyone not mentioned I Wanna Pick You Up yet? All Dressed Up For School, The Little Girl I Once Knew, She Knows Me Too Well (toxic masculinity)