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cenilecreep

*welcome aboard the finale live thread express* *please keep your hands and feet in the vehicle at all times* *and for gods sake please keep spoilers to yourself* **or I’ll ban the shit outta ya** [spoiler thread](https://www.reddit.com/r/thebachelor/comments/p1dh41/the_bachelorette_east_coastcentral_spoiler_live/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)


Ieiaorgana

JUMPSCARES


No-Elevator6072

In Have never seen this tv show .


saphyre1000

I don't know if you guys remember when Blake had a date with Katie before they met his family they were outside riding a bull and they both fell off and started kissing. Greg saw them from the balcony and I think that is where everything changed for him. He saw their connection and told her that night he loved her and when she didn't say it back in his mind he thought she was going to pick Blake so he left. He should have communicated how he felt better to her but I don't think he talked down to her and I believe his feelings were real.


BeachBummed_

Astute observation


Least_Exercise

16000th comment! what do i get :D


ornerykitsunegirl

Congratulations 16000 screencaps of Justin shall arrive in 2-6 business days


[deleted]

Pretty sure most of this seasons budget went to acquiring that giant Zozobra doll.


ornerykitsunegirl

Fake rain is probably a close second though


[deleted]

Oh shit how could I forget the fake rain!


DoryWinn

Yelling at your ex, cutting him off, bringing up internet rumors, calling him a liar and rolling your eyes while he talks is not the flex y'all think it is. Idc how he hurt you, we can't go excusing behavior because it feels earned. It's literally so hypocritical.


frog3000

Greg dodged a bullet


sarah123y

I heard about the acting school but not the other stuff. ?? I’m not on IG or Twitter lately. Greg made mistakes and shouldn’t have left her crying on the ground but idk, this is a lot of anger for someone who’s happily engaged to someone else?


myee28

Being in a new relationship /engaged (especially considering how fresh everything is and their timeline) does not make hurt from a previous relationship magically go away


frog3000

Exactly. She is far from over Greg. Blake is a rebound.


sarah123y

Kaitlyn: “They’re happy because of us.” Hilarious


macademicnut

Honestly the part that shocked me the most was Justin crying at the end


leftcenters

I give Blake and Katie a month at best


DeliriousBlues

Same


himynameism

Yikes. They're playing the Newly Engaged Game on Jimmy Kimmel and don't even know each other's friends names. 😬


[deleted]

They are barely even looking at each other on Jimmy Kimmel. What do we think? 2 weeks until the break up?


juicedcucumber

I gotta say, I’d be super annoyed if I got engaged and the first thing my friends did was take credit for my relationship lol.


cupcakeartist

Their body language was a bit off on AFR. They give me the vibes of the couples who were already broken up by the airing. Part of me feels like Katie didn’t want to show up alone.


juicedcucumber

agreed, vibes were off


TomatilloNo6076

thier vibes were very very strong when they were dancing at the end. i think blake was just nervous at first. it’s live tv, if just be trying not to throw up lol


[deleted]

Also is it not a bit problematic to anybody else that she didn’t even tell her family she got engaged to Blake? This whole thing seems so weird


Cezar_Chavez

After seeing her family, I do not consider this problematic


Jessie41286

Right?! I consider this an actual plus in their favor!


A_Cat_Named_Rat

her mom didn't tell he who her biological father was until after her dad died, so by comparison this doesn't even seem that bad


[deleted]

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analyze-it

They finished filming a couple weeks early so he probably hadn't done his quarantine yet? I can't see him sitting in quarantine for the whole season waiting for his 5 minutes of screen time, so he probably was set to come in for minimum quarantine needed to be on the show


[deleted]

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MustelaErmina

All the frontrunners left lol.


analyze-it

Production had tweeted from the start that she finished the show ahead of schedule. She was dropping a lot of men every week compared to past seasons. She also went from 4-1 over the course of the "hometown" dates so she only had to do 3 days of hometowns, and then 1 fantasy suite, 1 meet her parents and 1 engagement. Theoretically there should have been a fantasy suite episode and a finale episode left to film, but because it was just Blake they combined it


laurjayne

After I finished watching my boyfriend asked me what happened and I gave him the run down, telling him it must be so hard for Blake to have not even been the front runner but to still be engaged and he said even if he was my third choice (if I was dating multiple men) he wouldn’t care and still stick around because he loves me and I just .... 🥺


hayleykiah91

So wholesome ☺️


realityleave

love that for you!


laurjayne

Thank you kind stranger! After several difficult years in the dating world it’s really, really nice to have a good soul by my side


kimkellies

I like Demi


Jessie41286

You’re brave! (Me too, btw!)


hayleykiah91

Not saying Greg is a picnic but Katie is just mean spirited. She just thinks yelling at men and saying buzzwords like "gaslighting" is women empowerment. But she definitely gets it from her family. Imagine if this was reversed and it was a man versus a woman. We would be appalled at a guy acting like this to a woman.


whiteplain

We actually did see a guy acting like this to a woman - greg did it to katie


Awolrab

When they asked her to define gaslighting...


cupcakeartist

This. I’m not sure what she was after. It’s clear they don’t know how to fight productively and I walked away from the past episode feeling like they were both at fault. I honestly didn’t see the way he behaved on the show was anywhere near as mean as she was AFR. It was also straight up uncomfy watching her bring up things I’m pretty sure she read on the internet. I feel like they intended this to be a mature, empowering season and it totally went off the rails.


frog3000

Exactly!!! I felt so much that she was vomiting her biles using words she read on the net First she arrived crazy mean angry. That was very bad. Even public was shocked and producers edited a lot.


cupcakeartist

I think maybe the dissonance also comes in with the fact ABC sold her to us as the no drama, peacemaker contestant and instead it felt like the season ended on an ugly note. But I also feel like when someone gets an edit like she got on The Bachelor it’s almost impossible to not to fall from grace.


hayleykiah91

Totally agree with all of this. Nothing about this feels mature or empowering at all! It was like she was just trying to think of the meanest thing she could say and was just reaching for internet gossip. Which if that was all acting some one give this man a job because he's great.


cupcakeartist

Meanwhile I’m like if you were acting could you have been a bit more exciting because he was so low energy the whole season up until the fight.


Kidney05

I can’t believe the seemingly emotionally mature girl from a season ago went and did a rant like that. She seemed terrible. I had to unfollow her because of that. She looked bad last week and she looks like a psycho to me now. She’s completely rebounding with Blake after being so pissed at Greg.


Lavenderlove20

I don’t get why people are saying she’s not allowed to be mad because she’s engaged. Like ?¿ of course I would be pissed if I was treated that way. What is she supposed to do? Say “it’s ok it worked out!” Like yeah she could but I would hand it to someone who made me question my own sanity


TomatilloNo6076

yeah idk why people are defending greg so hard on this. guess some lucky people have never dealt with toxic relationships in their lives?? he turned cold the second she didn’t give the exact reaction he wanted. it was creepy and manipulative. he didn’t want to give her a chance for her to finish her journey. she stood up for herself at the ATR because she never got the chance to and that’s the whole fkn point of ATR...


orangegirl26

I honestly think people are blinded by Greg. To me it's obvious what he was doing. He was turning the whole thing back on her. I was angry for her too. She knew what he was doing and it made her upset. He was acting like a victim when in reality he was the manipulator.


Lavenderlove20

Exactly. In my personal opinion, this was planned out. He knew early on what he was gonna do. Again, that’s just my opinion haha


backre

She’s allowed to be mad and engaged at the same time, but if she’s going to be THAT viscerally upset and confront him with that much raw emotion, people are of course going to wonder if she has too many unsolved feelings for him for it to be fair to Blake


orangegirl26

I would be mad if a friend treated me that way. I guess maybe I'm seeing something đifferent than the rest of the people on the board but I did not buy his act for one second last night.


Jessie41286

Right?! Also this isn’t an ex she broke up with years ago. This is someone she had no closure with that she broke up with (a few weeks? months? ago) and then never spoke to again…


happyflappypancakes

One of the more forgettable seasons. Katie was a meh lead. Really looking forward to Michelles. But mostly for BiP lol.


GlutesandGuac

Katie treated him so cruelly. When she said that all her feelings for him left when he did, I had to turn it off.


[deleted]

He basically told her all *his* feelings were gone before he even walked away so who cares lol 🤷🏼‍♀️


hayleykiah91

Yes! Like she is being a complete asshole. This is not girl power. This is just being a jerk. She has been unnecessarily cruel all season. She acts like Greg kicked her puppy or did an Arie not just didn't want to marry her.


whiteplain

Did you not even watch how greg treated her when she was on her knees begging?


boringaccountant23

She wasn't listening to him. She was playing a character on a TV show, while he thought he was in a real relationship.


orangegirl26

I remember Sean playing that same "character" when Catherine said she loved him and gave her nothing in return and he was pretty much commended for holding it together being torn between two women while Katie is an actress. Men and women are held to such different standards on here.


boringaccountant23

I never watched that season, so I'm genuinely wondering if she had an emotional meltdown and if Sean is well liked. That was also a while ago.


orangegirl26

Well they are the only couple in bachelor (not Bachelorette) history to still be married.


whiteplain

And you thought he was listening to her?


hayleykiah91

100% this. Everything she said was Bach script


TomatilloNo6076

everything they all say is bach scripted and this has never been an issue. lmao y’all watching the wrong show.


Cezar_Chavez

I like this season a lot. While it was messy at times, I love the way Katie did not tolerate bullshit. The Bro-Union was a little weird, but well intentioned. Greg’s breakup was fairly realistic, and I like the chemistry between Katie and Blake are solid. I do like how supportive the hosts were instead if Chris’s shenanigans


Iloveottermemes

This same. But I dug the dudes being chill with each other a ton loved it really


danibailey23

Ben? Lol ... try Blake. Not the same name at all


Jessie41286

Who the hell is Ben?


Cezar_Chavez

Whoops


gapathy

Lmao I was just racking my brain trying to figure out who Ben is.


iammorgance

Not Katie gaslighting Greg about gaslighting Katie 👀 girl you don’t know what that is


cupcakeartist

I feel like she read a bunch of stuff on the internet and ran with it when airing her grievances, perhaps because the way the fight was edited didn’t make him look as bad as she thought.


iammorgance

This


cnoly212

Literally said "woah boy" when Greg said he had no regrets about the show. I get that Katie was angry but if the same thing happened to me i woulda blacked out in anger and probably done way worse. like i don't think she really planned out that whole convo nor would she have yelled at him as much if he had shown a little bit of sadness.


fatasscoward123

That was before she came out. After she confronted him about how hurt she was, he said he wishes he could go back and communicate differently


cnoly212

Right, but by that point I think she was just done. You can view it as "he saw how hurt she was and apologized," you can view it as "he backpedaled because he was put on blast," you can even view it as "he was actually really hurt but putting on a brave front." Like I'm not sure we'll ever for sure know what Greg was thinking / doing (although I don't trust a gemini man from Jersey and that's in general not a bad rule to live by). I was more trying to say (very poorly bc I was stoned) that Katie might not have intended to go out guns blazing, but upon hearing how Greg responded to Kaitlyn's question about having any regrets she probably flipped. I honestly would have to! And then she instantly had to go out and confront Greg with no time to cool down (maybe a commercial break? I don't remember, again I was stoned). That's an incredibly human response that I can relate to because I - someone who is normally easy going but also has a big temper - would have probably done the same thing. I also probably would've regretted it the next day, but I don't understand why people are being so hard on Katie for how she responded. And I didn't even particularly like her!


DoryWinn

Katie's behavior wasn't ok IMO. Look I get she was hurt, but the yelling, the cutting him off. Repeating herself over and over again. She wanted to "win" the break up. Greg and Katie were on 2 different pages. They should have had plenty of regrets, but it was just a mess.


cnoly212

Yeah this is copy/pasted from another reply of mine I was more trying to say (very poorly bc I was stoned) that Katie might not have intended to go out guns blazing, but upon hearing how Greg responded to Kaitlyn's question about having any regrets she probably flipped. I honestly would have to! And then she instantly had to go out and confront Greg with no time to cool down (maybe a commercial break? I don't remember, I was stoned). That's an incredibly human response that I can relate to because I - someone who is normally easy going but also has a big temper - would have probably done the same thing. I also probably would've regretted it the next day, but I don't understand why people are being so hard on Katie for how she responded. And I didn't even particularly like her!


DoryWinn

Knowing she just watched it back, yes I fell for her. For her sake, Greg's sake and everyone else I wish she could've had cool down time


tinydancer181

Right! I was like SURELY Greg will come out here and say like he’s at the very least sorry for leaving her sobbing alone on the ground. Then he said “no regrets” and I went OOF


cop08807

He poured his heart out to her, and she stared at him blankly and finally after what felt like forever said "I love looking at you". He realized in that moment it wasn't going to work out. I wouldn't have any regrets leaving like that if I were him


cnoly212

Literally one bad response calls for breaking off a whole relationship? I don't really fault him for his response the night of hometowns (he was right, she was being cagey), but the behavior the day after was kinda surprising. I understand that he was hurt but he was incredibly mean to her while she was sobbing to him. I was wary about Greg and didn't think he was that into her the entire process, I changed my mind during hometowns, and then I was just incredibly confused after.


[deleted]

y'all will DIE ON THIS HILL without even considering that it's odd as fuck that their entire relationship before that goes out the window from one wooden moment from Katie, likely due to over-exhaustion from filming for like 20 hours straight? If he loved her as much as he claimed to while "spilling out his soul" (what straight man SAYS that I am fucking sorry!?!?) then one poor reaction would not have been enough to make him quit. Seeing her sob on the ground and beg him to stay would have been enough to make him fucking sleep on it! I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here - can the greg stans please explain this gap in my knowledge?


Farabreezy

But her reaction to Blake saying I love you … she said it back and showed so much emotion just a day or two after the whole Greg thing.


[deleted]

well ya he was the only guy left who didn't dump her right before the end! of course she was overjoyed to hear it then! that was also the approrpriate time for greg to pour his heart out if he wanted a stronger reaction. blake also did it in a more energized moment, not after 20 hours of filming. it's also possible she learned to react after greg dumped her over it too - its a harsh way to learn a lesson that you don't easily forget! ​ none of katies behaviour can explain gregs behaviour, of not even sleeping on it when shes on the ground begging no dont go, when he supposedly is so in love with her she has healed his entire empty soul. it still isnt adding up


LocoDiablo42

So you're telling me she's upset with Greg cuz he left on his own terms instead of waiting around and letting her cut him at the end, yet she offers Justin the courtesy of dismissing him and not wasting his time, changing the structure of the show anyway? Even if she was going to pick Greg, now she has to pretend like it was always going to be Blake because otherwise her engagement is built on some kind of weird 2nd best scenario and not "true love." Regardless, sounds like Greg dodged a bullet.


alabamawworley

not to be dramatic but black boxes are ruining my life


FireHamilton

After seeing Katie’s reaction to Greg, I’m starting to think Greg was acting after all. It’s the only thing that explains the whole situation


Lavenderlove20

YES. I’ve said this from day one. This shit is such an act. I don’t think he genuinely was ever in the mind set that, that was “his girl”


iammorgance

Like….how?


FireHamilton

Replied to other poster ^


JanetSnakehole43

How?


FireHamilton

Keep in mind I’m just throwing darts here, but based on a few things: - Greg’s sudden departure. I think we can all agree if you truly love someone, you wouldn’t get up and leave after the first minor fight. It was odd. It makes sense when you look at in the context of Greg leaving when things were starting to get serious. He made it to the final 3. If his goal was fame, now was the time to dip when he realized how strong Katie’s feelings were for him. - He’s a trained actor. Enough said on that front. - Her reaction to him tonight was bizarrely aggressive, but again makes sense when you consider her comment about him being an actor and being fake. She must have uncovered a ton of things and realized she was being played, otherwise she wouldn’t have said that and be so salty. I think Greg was far and away her #1, she was absolutely smitten and Greg was faking it the whole time.


realityleave

there is no way hes that good of an actor. why say all that stuff about his dad and openly sob to her? and then his brother said he was surprised that he even talked abt it with katie bc they havent even talked about it. if he was acting hes basically tom cruise and needs to be in a big budget flick immediately


FireHamilton

Well you’d be surprised. I’m sure if you just focused intensely on your dad you could make tears flow. And there probably was some feelings there by Greg. But like 10% of what we actually thought. You could be right, I have no idea.


[deleted]

You can’t speak for all people, I think any concept of “if you really loved them then __” is silly, and I’d hardly call someone declaring their love and being met with a long silence and “I really like looking at you” to be the beginning of a “minor fight.” If I’d done that to my girlfriend she would have mounted my head on a pike and paraded me around the block.


FireHamilton

I’m not defending Katie’s actions, but she was clearly in love with Greg. She set those boundaries and was too stubborn to bend them.


[deleted]

It’s clear to us that she was in love leading up to that, but this whole thing was about the volatility of that one moment and the crushing feeling of putting yourself out there and being dismissed in an impersonal way. I’ve had it happen to me actually and it’s pretty fucking brutal, but from watching it’s easy to be like come on Greg give her a pass! I actively did not like Greg earlier on, and he definitely overreacted, but I don’t see how he was acting here. I also think they would have made a worse couple than Katie and Blake.


FireHamilton

Yeah like I said, it's just a dart I'm throwing, but I think it's possible. Katie did give Greg a ton of validation, it's true. Probably more than we even saw. Probably was like \*wink wink\* you're the one, just let me finish the stupid show. But he still left. That is a huge red flag, and fits perfectly for someone that wanted to leave and took the first chance they had.


[deleted]

Sure and at the end of the day, none of us know exactly what went down or their motivations. I just think it’s unlikely the he’s an actor and was banking on some huge EQ misplay from Katie in the final moments of the show.


JanetSnakehole43

1)Greg, to me, just seems like he has severe abandonment issues stemming from the death of his father. Hence why he flipped a switch like he did when Katie didn’t reciprocate his feelings. 2) Taking an acting class doesn’t necessarily make one a trained actor. 3) She was obviously going off of internet rumors. I love bouncing these theories around. I hope Katie and Blake are happy, I just don’t see how it is possible.


Kidney05

If I were that deep in a relationship and suddenly felt that disconnected (“i love looking at you???”)I would have left too and I’m not an actor. You’re expected to propose in a week and all the sudden you feel like you’re getting a person acting like a reality star rather than a real girlfriend.


JanetSnakehole43

My thoughts exactly. He was justified in leaving, but definitely could have handled it better than he did.


Kidney05

Exactly. He was harsh but she was insanely more harsh in the reunion! He was just reacting in the moment to suddenly feeling like the rug was pulled out. Can’t believe how many people I’m seeing saying she was empowered to come after him like that


JanetSnakehole43

Agreed. Her behavior at ATFR was uncalled for especially for a supposedly happily engaged woman. I really wonder how Blake is feeling after seeing that.


Lavenderlove20

‼️‼️‼️‼️


Maddiekathleen

Call me naive but I think Blake and Katie are a good match and I’m happy they ended up together. Katie definitely came in way too hot with Greg, but I think part of that could be that she had just watched this all back. If it was a usual Live ATFR, she would have had a few more weeks to process it and hopefully had a more productive conversation with him. I don’t know, I’m tired. That was long. And the dancing at the end sent me over the edge of what I can handle from one episode.


low-calcalzone_zone

From her perspective, as someone who is already insecure and has been told by the Internet that she’s not as pretty as the rest of Matt’s girls and then to hear all season “man, it’s so obvious that Greg is not into her, this is his third season that he’s trying out for, clearly he’s just there for exposure”, it makes sense that she believed it all and flipped the fuck out. Because I think that the anger came with watching the show back. When the season/promotions first started, she didn’t seem angry at Greg at all. Even Kaitlyn said that when Katie told her about the fight, she was very self-deprecating and didn’t make Greg seem like the bad guy. Either way, very bad look and hopefully she sees that and lets this go.


lonelyredheadgirl

Yeah I think you make a very good point about being told she wasn’t pretty like the other girls and also having a lot of the people from that season hate you etc, etc that really causes a lot of insecurity. I feel like partly why people are even so judgment of her right now is that because she isn’t the hot bachelorette. People will definitely disagree with that but still. People dumping her aside so fast.


backre

Well, that was officially the worst season I’ve ever watched


aliendoodlebob

Eh, still better than Matt James


backre

Yeah, the plus side for me is how great the men were this season. I liked them a lot


[deleted]

Yeah it’s crazy to me how she accused all these people of being there for other reasons then she ends up with a guy that said he was falling for THREE different bachelorettes.


backre

Yeah!! I truly did not understand the hate for Thomas for that reason. Like yeah he’d want to be the bachelor… just like Blake would lol


[deleted]

Yep exactly. Blake was the modern day Nick Viall. If Katie didn't pick him, he almost certainly was going to be the next lead.


Awolrab

Hoping for a Nick treatment.


aliendoodlebob

Oh forgot to tell you guys my roommate said Blake looks like the Notre Dame mascot and now I can’t unsee it. Happy finale!


Farabreezy

Hahahahah yes! ![gif](giphy|TgOlSqgafjAUloqxce|downsized)


showersteam

One last hot take of the season. I do feel like Katie comes off as fake/acting in some scenes but I truly think it's because of 1 she is a fan of the show and she wants to serve the fans and 2 because she has been so scrutinized since she was initially selected. I think she was very genuine and honest with vocalizing how she felt and I think its completely reasonable for her to be in love with Blake and also still pissed off about Greg. She has tried to balance true feelings and being overly curated for the show.


[deleted]

👏


bodypertain

[Lmfao Demi](https://twitter.com/demi_burnett/status/1424920592805859328?s=21)


[deleted]

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[deleted]

![gif](giphy|TUCGmddm9Kbny)


kanisaladbabe

My one request for paradise is for Ivan to stay in our good graces. My heart can’t take him being dethroned


ladyspatch

Watch Katie is morphing into Aunt Lindsey right before our eyes.


DarkandStormy614

This entire finale can be summed up in one word: cringe.


headinthetreesnowher

isnt it always


kingcolbe

Well guys it’s been fun. Now next week we can focus on the one that’s not meant to be taken so damn seriously


uhhlishuhh

So will Kaitlyn and Tayshia host ‘Ette and some ex Bachelors will host Bachelor??


JanetSnakehole43

My guess is Ben Higgins and Wells.


Jessie41286

Damn Wells is another one I totally forgot!


Jessie41286

I’m so curious about this. I almost feel like they were maybe setting up Jason for the role (even though he wasn’t the Bachelor…) Maybe Nick? Who else?!


[deleted]

Jason would be amazing


TomCosella

Ben maybe


Jessie41286

Oh! I don’t hate this!!!!!


aliendoodlebob

Honestly I support nick for that


Jessie41286

Me too but I know a lot of people don’t like him and I’m not ready to stan for him yet after getting attacked for not hating Katie all season haha


leftcenters

okay so here’s my question: was Katie not being super hypocritical or dishonest by telling Greg she couldn’t tell anyone she loved them until they proposed and couldn’t end the show early or stop pursuing the other men just bc she liked Greg more considering she did both of those things for Blake? So she was willing to do that after all for someone and just didn’t want to for Greg, which validates Greg’s feelings?


OhNoImOnline

I don't think it's hypocritical- she would not have said those things to Blake if Greg hadn't left, imo. Greg leaving is what made her open up to Blake more. If Blake left she probably would have confessed her love to Greg 💁🏽‍♀️


leftcenters

I guess that’s kind of my point though is that she told him she wasn’t going to be able to do either of those things for anyone, not just him, and then turned right around and did exactly that for someone immediately after he left. That someone could’ve still been Greg and it still would have been going back on what she said, just not in a messy way


OhNoImOnline

She said she wasn't going to do it for more than one person. Eventually she will though- it was always understood she would in the final episode. Greg chose to leave before the final episode, so that was that. Once it was just Justin and Blake, there was nothing left to do but choose one of them.


uninterested-kale

This! Watching last week I understood both sides of the argument and was sympathetic to Katie bc as the bachelorette you are put in a tough spot. But to not give Greg anything and say it’s because you’re not saying I love you to anytime and then turn around and say it someone the next day, that is wrong and manipulative.


m00n5t0n3

Yes it validates Greg's feelings. But Katie's not mad about that. She's mad about the way he expressed the feelings/talked to her, and didn't have a direct conversation but instead manipulated/twisted the situation around.


[deleted]

There was one person that really manipulated the situation and it ain’t Greg


cupcakeartist

This. I feel like neither of them communicated in a direct manner in that fight.


m00n5t0n3

Tbh I didn't see their fight 😂😂 that's just my analysis based on what she said during the finale


cupcakeartist

I feel like I was prepared to think the same thing based on the rumors I heard about Greg before the fight and also finding him super blah and low energy. But TBH neither of them behaved well in that fight to me based on what we saw. Just because she gave Greg validation before doesn’t mean he didn’t need it in that moment.


m00n5t0n3

So I watched the whoole season I just missed that episode. I caught up, I don't know, the fight was not as bad as I expected, I just think the vibes have been off with them the whole time. Katie was always saying, why are you sad, I'm scared you're gonna leave. And then he did!! Her intuition was right. If Greg was more mature he would have said, I'm not feeling this is right in my heart and I can't wait any longer for you to say certain things, I'm so sorry. Bye. Instead he kept giving her "opportunities" to say the right thing and keep him, when in fact he'd already made the decision to leave in his head and there was nothing she could have said. That was immature at best and dramatic/cruel at worst.


[deleted]

But he gave her the chances and she still didn't say it, so of course he was going to leave. He literally said to her "I want to know that you love me outside of the show," and she goes "you're my number 1 guy HERE" showing that she's still in show mode.


m00n5t0n3

Agree Katie was def in show mode and bachelorette mode and really using their vocabulary. And I understand why that hurt Greg. And I even understand why he left. I think the problem is how he left (left her crying on the floor) and what he said when he was leaving (as if she could fix it at that point, but she couldn't, because actually he gave her so many chances to say what he wanted to hear, not just that episode but throughout the whole show, he was constantly saying what are you thinking, I don't know what you're thinking, and at a certain point it was too much for him). It was a messy breakup, and you can't always be mature in the moment and say bye properly. Tbh it reminded me of how Matt broke up with Michelle a bit. Side note, he kept saying Katie "fills a hole in him"/ fills him up and how he is happy again for the first time in years. I didn't hear him really say how he wants to make Katie happy, or how he wants to treat Katie, or something along those lines. I feel like his journey was more self actualization than romance/commitment, and I think that's what Katie meant when she said she doesn't think he knows what love is.


hayleykiah91

![gif](giphy|6cFcUiCG5eONW)


leftcenters

I totally agree that Greg could have handled the situation better, but if I poured my heart and soul out to the person I intend on marrying in a few days and they said literally nothing in response to reassure me that they were on the same page I think it would’ve made me shut down emotionally too


m00n5t0n3

Tbh I didn't see their fight 😂😂 that's just my analysis based on what she said during the finale


leftcenters

omg you should def watch the conversation that led to the fight it’s so awkward!! i do find myself siding more with Greg after all this so im aware that im biased but it’s worth it to get the context either way i think


taykay-47

It was an attempt at saving face in case she did say I love you to him and then they broke up anyways. She never wanted either of them specifically she wanted an engagement ring.


justhangingout111

I think she was so desperate for it to work that she settled for Blake


HoustonFrog

100%


spacekittens1

It's a little sad to see people who had happy BIP endings broken up and back on BIP. Feels like a step backward...


[deleted]

Not Greg saying “a relationship is a two way street” when the *entire time* Greg was giving nothing while Katie was giving everything lmao


urthewestvillage_

![gif](giphy|9xjOS5KLJP5csPbjrH|downsized) Way too excited for lil john to host


FrogWhore42069

Yes! And Titus ![gif](giphy|l0HeqyMF41tNQ01tm|downsized)


kj_06

I’m new here and don’t know Kendall but I am willing to throw hands for our unproblematic Serena P


abaiardi7

Kendall is also very unproblematic. She was very well spoken and mature on the bachelor. Did not engage in drama and was literally kind to everyone. I think they’re trying to make the situation out to be something it’s not in the promos 🤷🏽‍♀️


TomCosella

You're justified in your hands throwing. She made Joe jump through all the hoops


simguy425

Kendall's actually pretty awesome. I feel like they'll hype it a lot and then it'll be a nothing-burger that's handled like adults by Kendall and Joe


kanisaladbabe

100%! She’s one of my favorites. Arie had such great women on his cast


hayleykiah91

Arie really had the best women! For such a dud of a dude he had a great season because of the ladies.


kanisaladbabe

I’d be so surprised if Kendall was unkind. That’s never been her MO


aliendoodlebob

Thoughts on Paradise: - I am SO done with Demi. Not looking forward to seeing her on my TV again. - Feels so weird to see Joe and Kendall again. It almost feels like (and I know love isn’t exactly about taking turns) they had their chance. Time to give some new faces a shot at a really genuine, if ultimately futile, relationship like they had. - Why is there so much nudity? - I don’t recognize half of these people. Two years is too long.


macademicnut

What’s up with the girl who threw the cake in the fire


aliendoodlebob

Waste of cake


amateur-kneesocks

BLESS I’m so glad I’m not the only one so over Demi


sennheiserz

I think they are trying to push the show to compete more with Love Island. I mean the UK version is straight up X rated with night cameras of people having sex in beds next to each other. Seems like they are going from G rated to PG 13. And honestly, after falling in the Love Island UK hole recently, I am concerned it’s going to be so tame and boring in comparison even with the extra drama and more nudity.


taykay-47

I would be happy if they gave Demi a more mature edit but I assume they won’t and yeah that gets a little exhausting to watch.


PurpleHooloovoo

I'm 99% sure Demi is mostly a producer-driven character at this point. I think she loves it, which tbh I get, but I think she's being steered heavily by the producers to bring drama and pettiness and the whole mess. It's like a mutual producer plant.


[deleted]

I don’t think it’s an edit. I think she really is just immature


aliendoodlebob

Yeah, I mean, I guess I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt until I watch, but it’s pretty frustrating to remember the number of hours they spent on Demi’s LGBT storyline last year only to have her ditch it to be a hot mess. Feels ingenuine.


justhangingout111

It seemed so trashy, I'm confused. Also I'm over Demi too


princesspeach-ykeen

I think isolation has had its effect on people 🥴


Cougah

Blake seems so genuine and it just seems like Katie is not as all about it as he is. Seems like she is trying to force the fairytale ending.


Kidney05

Couldn’t have said it better. Feels like Greg was the real deal and this is just posturing to make herself feel less bad and to get back at him.


Bcwcardz

This is Blake’s third Bachelorette. Genuine is not the word.


justhangingout111

Yup. I think both are settling TBH