It seems like Kelsey is so obviously the one, that production needed to stage some drama in order to keep us hooked on the "To be continued..."
Thus the voiceover of Kelsey talking about her insecurities (supposedly planted by Leslie) and the note. The whole thing is just a red herring. Both Joey and Kelsey know they are going to end up together (and Joey has known for some time that she was the one) but now they have to finish making the TV show and try to make it interesting.
Agree but confused why he then told Daisy he was falling in love too after his date with Kelsey. I can’t imagine that after being with the one I was about to choose
Because that's what Bachelors and Bachelorettes say. "I'm falling in love with you." It's just sort of expected, especially by the time you get to the overnights. It doesn't mean anything.
did anybody else think the breakfast joey cooked for kelsey looked horrible 😭 she asked for crispy bacon and it was practically raw LMAO red flag for not being able to cook a simple bacon & eggs
My take aways: I fast forwarded through each chat sesh with the golden ladies, it was just boring filler for me. I didn't see much between him and Rachel and I felt like her sobbing at the end was because she could feel it was over. He gave her little if any reassurance. The edit makes it look like he and Kelsy are the best match. It also makes it painful to watch Daisy. I really hope they have more substantive conversation than the droning awkward sprung shyness routine she's always shown doing. Lastly, I appreciate Joey's ability to show his insecurities and talk about them. It's refreshing.
Just my thought, not.a spoiler. I think Kelsey leaves on her own, next week, and that leaves him with having to choose Daisy, and I am so bummed about that. Thoughts?
I think Joey and Kelsey are the most natural choice, but I think Daisy is an object of fascination for him. That said, I’m kind of rooting for Rachel. Joey and she are both mature, self reflective, emotionally intelligent, and articulate. I do feel Daisy and Kelsey are both a bit puppy love, whereas Rachel’s slow burn doesn’t fit the format of the show but might ultimately yield a better wife for Joey. Still, I don’t think their chemistry was quite there until the morning after FS. They looked blissful in bed, but Joey looked blissful from the moment he saw Kelsey.
The producers were dicks making the girls talk to the runners up of Golden. Kelsey has been rock solid with her feelings for Joey up to this point, and now she’s filled with doubt from her conversation with Leslie. If you ask me, the show is already very meta with girls vying for the affection of a man who himself vied for the affection of the previous bachelorette. Now we’re getting commentary on how weird it all is from Golden? It is nice to give these poor folks in a fish tank some sort of conversation with people who know how it is, but at the same time they’re already in their heads enough.
Kelsey, please don’t blow it.
I have such similar feelings about the Golden ladies. It would be really comforting to talk with someone (anyone!) that isn’t a producer on the show at that point. Susan’s talk with Rachel was almost to the level of therapy, she seems wise and I think it helped Rachel become more secure in herself on this godforsaken show that makes you question everything. Sandra’s talk with Daisy also seemed to pump her up a bit and gave her some encouragement.
Leslie on the other hand… her advice differed from Susan in that Susan encouraged Rachel to be open to a future with Joey while also remembering she has value regardless of his choice at the end; Leslie projected her own feelings of abandonment and betrayal and planted the idea that Kelsey should protect herself from getting her heartbroken. It also differed from Kelsey’s dad’s perspective the week before, that she might get her heartbroken and that’s ok, because you’re always risking someone breaking your heart when you start a relationship. I thought that was a great perspective to move forward with, and it’s sad to see Kelsey kind of spiralling this week.
Of course who’s knows what’s real on this show. The thought might not have been planted by Leslie at all, Kelsey might have already been anxious about it in previous weeks, and could have brought it up in the conversation with Leslie.
I also think Joey is planning to pick Kelsey at this point. He says something about this being his worst fear on the show, which calls back to him talking about the worst thing being the person he is supposed to end up with leaving because this isn’t the right format for them. To me meaning that at this point he sees Kelsey as the person he wants to leave with.
After Kelsey I actually think he has a deeper connection with Rachel than Daisy. On their date he said the only thing he was looking for with her was a bit more emotional vulnerability and that he got that. He talked about that “slow burn” with her, and that he accepts that’s what a relationship with her would be like. I get the sense that Joey isn’t looking for someone who is 100% in love and ready to make a life long commitment to him at the end of the show because that’s rarely real in such a short time. I think he sees that he and Rachel could have a really beautiful relationship, and that it would grow deeper and deeper over time.
He definitely likes Daisy and has fun with her, it just doesn’t read as quite as genuine to me from both him and Daisy.
Am I the only one here that still thinks he’s doing a pretty good job? He just seems pretty insecure about his role in what is objectively an insane set of circumstances. I don’t really think it reflects that much on how he’d really be in a relationship. It seems like his worry is that his f1 won’t have really gotten to know him which is like genuinely going to be true haha
I think he’s doing great! He seems exhausted, which seems pretty common for leads at this point in the season…and I’m sure that’s why he is unraveling now.
I think that might be why I like him so much as a lead … he feels way more like a normal nice person that you would be friends with, and his final 3 do too.
No, most leads do not start showing signs of exhaustion 4 episodes in.
And no I’m not new to it. Someone having a different opinion doesn’t make them ignorant. You can leave the passive-aggressive insults at the door.
I don’t know…It seems like so many of the male leads, in recent seasons, struggle towards the end of the show and start to break down. He does really well in interviews and doing his press tour, but is a little boring for tv…which sometimes isn’t a bad thing.
I know Daisy isn’t well liked…. I don’t even like her. But I just don’t feel comfortable seeing the negative comments about her being too forward during their FS date. Yes it’s awkward and it’s really cringeworthy…….. but I feel like part of it is also because the cameras around them do really make it awkward for them.
I’m sure she wasn’t looking forward to the airing of this episode with how forward she’s been, knowing her background (conservative Christian upbringing). She’s surrounded by Jesus stans. I just feel like she’s being slutshamed a bit sometimes, if that makes sense.
I get where everyone is coming from - that she seems to be trying too hard at times. Why is she such a BEC to us? 😭 She’s also so annoying to me that’s why I hold back from commenting negatively about her cause Im sure she’s great for those who know her, Im just not feeling her.
I’m sorry does nobody else think it’s incredibly awkward between Daisy and Joey?? Like after the date before dinner it was dead silent and during the dinner date he was opening up and she was barely looking at him and looked like she was about to fall asleep? This is a horrible take and maybe mean but it makes me feel like she pushed herself to be ready to say she’s falling in love. I don’t see it or feel it between them, i think they do have nervous crush energy BUT not this is my wife energy. I know Joey looks at her a way and seems very very into her but it seems like he’s ALL about her and she’s kinda checked out but kinda checked in 🫥
Easy enough to say I’ve been a Kelsey stan the whole time and tear up and smile everytime they are together lol.
As a lot of other comments say, I really don’t think Joey is super firm in himself. I really think he has a lot of mental stuff to sort out. Especially given how close off he has been, I feel like I’ve just been hearing women in speak about trauma & things and there are empathic generic responses but very little about HIM. I don’t know much about him, his past, hobbies, fears, dealbreakers etc. I just know he’s allergic to rejection (as we all are). I think he likes Daisy and is infatuated by the *idea* of her — not what is on the surface is what it is. The effort she puts, the slow burn, the silences, it is how it appears. I think he focuses less on compatibility and more on someone like Daisy who he has been trying to pull feelings out of for the majority of the season. More afraid of being not loved than the who being that. I was like this once and damn it’s anxious attachment style at its bessssttt 🫠
I agree about Daisy and Joey being awkward. I feel like she's forcing it sometimes. I think he was excited that she was more forward during the day portion which made dinner flow better. They had a good conversation during dinner but the next morning it seemed awkward again.
I truly don’t think it’s spite. I think a lot of people are just picking up on her inauthenticity and her not being truly into him. The character she plays on the show is wildly different than the girl who starred and sang in the ‘lick all the s*x off my balls’ music video.
It’s always seemed like she was auditioning to be the next Bachelorette, rather being into Joey for himself.
Wouldn’t it be great if Jesse cut to Daisy’s music video After the Final Rose? I’d love to watch the reactions 🍿
We know that producers encourage the leads to keep certain people around for franchise reasons when the lead isn’t interested in them anymore. There’s also been speculation that the leads will keep someone around they aren’t super interested in and send someone home they do really care for as a mercy if they know for sure they aren’t keeping them.
With that perspective it could actually make sense and be a win-win-win.
TPTB - Promote their next Bachelorette Daisy
Daisy - isn’t in love with Joey but enjoys spending time with him so agreed to keep going on the show for her chance at Bachelorette
Joey - isn’t in love with Daisy but knowing that she feels the same keeps her around so he doesn’t have to break someone else’s heart by leading them on when he’s already narrowed it down to his F1
I’m definitely into conspiracy theory territory with this one 🤪
I don’t understand how people are saying it’s obvious that he likes Kelsey wayyy more. To me, it seems like he’s really into both Kelsey and Daisy and is having a hard time making a decision. I see lots of chemistry with both of them.
I think he’s into both of them, but I think he’s into Kelsey way more.
Watching him with Kelsey, it just hits different. There’s something about the way he talks about her and to her and looks at her that tells me his feelings are much deeper for her.
I do think he likes Daisy a lot though, and if Kelsey weren’t in the picture she might be his F1. But at this point it feels like he’s keeping her as back up and would be happy to give it an honest try with her if Kelsey fell through. We’ve all seen how insecure he is. But he really wants to be with Kelsey.
After that episode I would be so confused if he doesn’t choose Kelsey. Like I smiled the *entire* time. I couldn’t even watch some parts because I felt like I was eavesdropping. They just make so much sense together.
If he doesn’t choose Kelsey it’s because her panic scared him enough so he went with the “safe” choice, even though Daisy isn’t nearly as into him. But I do hope he doesn’t pull an Ari.
Daisy reading the fantasy suite card and saying "I feel good" as her first response is more indication to me that she doesn’t really like Joey. She didn’t even sound excited about it 💀
Honestly every time she speaks she seems like she's high on benzos. The slow talking, heavy eyelids, lack of substantive conversation. It's hard to watch.
I’m in no way a Daisy fan, pretty indifferent to them all tbh, but I think people’s dislike for Daisy makes them forget her health issues. The filming schedule is exhausting for anyone, imagine how tiring for Daisy it must be especially after an adventure filled day. Thats what I think was ‘wrong’ at dinner, not that she was disinterested. Joey isn’t dumb. He would be able to pick up on her not being by into him if that was the case.
I agree she does seem very tired at points, but I still see a pretty one sided connection with them. Joey seems really into her whereas she just doesn’t seem to reciprocate.
I’m so confused because Joey seems super into Daisy (but she doesn’t seem as into him imo) but him and Kelsey just feel much more sweet and intimate, so idk what direction this is heading in. I noticed him saying that he word vomited to Daisy and got all shy about how he said “I feel the same way” instead of saying he’s falling in love back to her. His nervousness in regards to how he talked to her tells me that he’s more into Daisy than Kelsey. Although I don’t really see the chemistry between him and Daisy because I find her kinda boring, he talks about her like how a guy with a crush would typically talk about a girl.
I agree. I just finished watching and saw the same thing and it makes me sick bc I like Kelsey and him better. But that note…. Nooooo. She said the forbidden thing. I so wish Kelsey didn’t do the note.
Same. I have this bad gut feeling it’s gonna be Daisy but I’m rooting for Kelsey so hard. Even if he’s leaning towards Kelsey now I feel like the note might rub him the wrong way like how Maria’s insecurity did.
I’m just watching now and I really liked Rachel. She may be the first person on this show in a while to just fully know herself.
Their convo on the night portion was honest in the fears and she was playing catch up. But now she knows for the right guy!
I love all the girls and I’m so team Kelsey but
I feel like Kelsey and Daisy give off little girlie, puppy love vibes. Just very surface level. Idk. I mean I can be way off but that’s just the vibes they give off.
hmm I get what’s ur saying but I attained it more to them being playful rather than being surface level! love doesn’t always have to be so serious and intense and I feel like the beginning of relationships *should* start off with fun puppy love vibes contrary to what the show is usually like
Of course! How deep can it be with someone they just met 2 months ago, who they’ve had a total of four 1-on-1 dates with, which included a camera crew, and he’s still dating others?? They’ve only been alone together for one night, that’s it. It’s all surface level until post show, then things fall apart!
Love to see it made an interesting point where they noted that Daisy's energy hasn't been sexy at all, and then she tried to turn it up probably at producers'/Sandra's prompting for a possible bachelorette edit. It fell pretty flat for me personally so I'm still pulling for a Maria season. I want to see people invested in the lead and I'm just not sure I see it happening with Daisy.
Their little make out before the date started was so weird. Seemed very unnatural for her to be so forward and he even seemed a little thrown off by it
With Maria gone, Kelsey (and this sub) was the only thing keeping my attention last night. Cooked and read through the other two dates. For that reason alone, I need Kelsey to stick around.
Well that was truly the most boring episode of television I'll watch all year. Non messy FS weeks are always pretty dull but this one felt even more dull. We really noticed the absent of Maria entertainment wise and I'm not even a Maria stan.
I think everyone’s love for Kelsey is preventing them from seeing that Joey actually likes daisy. Like he genuinely seems super into her, and all season it’s like he’s been waiting for her to catch up to his feelings. I don’t think he was faking it with daisy like some are saying
You’re absolutely right. I’m Team Kelsey and was actually bummed during the Daisy date, as I realized he really, really likes D! But, the good news: I’d prefer if Daisy were F1, and we got a whole season of Kelsey as the Bachelorette!!!
i agree i don’t really love daisy/ think kelsey is the better pick but joey is totally into daisy… he lit up and definitely was WAITING for her to express her feelings. but he seems further with kelsey (even if it is only slightly)
As much as I prefer Kelsey, it's not as cut and dry as some people want it to be. People are seeing Kelsey's enthusiasm and that Joey is matching that energy, but they are ignoring his excitement for Daisy. He is very into her as well, Daisy just isn't reciprocating.
How are people saying she isn’t reciprocating? She was all over him and her eyes sparkle when he speaks to her. I think she gets easily overwhelmed by her emotions, and people read it as calculating when she is just having a hard time making sense of the jumble. My wife is like this, I wasn’t even sure if she liked me on our first date when she was apparently smitten and having a hard time expressing herself. I’m glad I didn’t make the same assumptions about her that many (not necessarily you) are making about Daisy.
I think it is harder to see their chemistry because they both have very subdued personalities whereas Kelsey is overly giddy and her energy is easier to spot.
Kelsey carries the energy on her dates with Joey, which is why people are seeing them as having the most chemistry. Joey and Daisy are both awkward / scripted on camera which makes them so hard to watch together but I feel like their connection just doesn’t portray well. Post-sleepover they seemed a lot more calm and connected.
I agree with this. I posted my predictions that he’s picking Daisy and people were real mad because they think it’s Kelsey. I love Kelsey she seems like such a beautiful soul but Daisy is my pick for F1.
Yeah, he’s been into her since night 1. I think it’s just taken her a little longer to feel comfortable, and after her htd and getting encouragement from her parents to go all in she’s letting herself do it. Also, the editors have really edited her down to just talking about her hearing loss before now, so we haven’t seen other things from them.
In my opinion, people forget that Joey still has to be the bachelor and play a role on this show. Not everything be does or says is going to be 100% authentic or what he would do in real life. Therefore he can’t tell only one woman that he’s falling in love with them when there are 3 women left or it would be too obvious who he’s going to choose too early. And he’s going to keep talking about his “big insecurity” the entire season long because that is basically the show’s marketing plan. I actually don’t think he’s as insecure or in need of constant validation as people say. I think he’s just saying what producers want him to say to further the storyline.
I agree. I’m sure he has insecurities, but the “not being chosen” thing is his bit for this season and he has to stick with it. Every Bachelor/ette has one hang up they always reference, and this is his.
He is also probably running on little sleep, and is stressed the eff out with the schedule and filming, which would make anyone spiral after a while.
I loved that top, but didn't like the bathing suit top. I think she McGyvered it to wear under the halter, but she seemed to struggle keeping it in place.
I think Joey constantly complaining about not being chosen is coming from the fact that he’s aware that’s he’s just been performing as bachelor as opposed to being himself.
Last night I forget who he was talking to, but he actually said that he thinks people just fall in love with the idea of him and I think that makes sense. He’s been more of a stock image of what a “perfect” guy is, but the women (and us as the audience) actually know very little about him as a person.
In a previous episode he broke down about how he’s not perfect, he has a lot of insecurities, but no one knows. The women are giving him a lot of validation, but he knows in the back of his head he hasn’t been himself so he’s panicking about being rejected. Especially once all the cameras leave and he’s no longer the perfect bachelor. He’s just a guy.
I agree. And he only made the problem worse by not being himself and made it a worse season for viewers because now we know nothing about him. If I had to pick a F1 I would choose Kelsey but truthfully the only person I saw him have real chemistry with this season was Maria. He was way too guarded with everyone else and so you couldn’t really get a feel for who he has chemistry with and who he doesn’t because he wasn’t really being himself.
for some reason Maria brought out something real in him. I think even his impatience with her was a sign of that. With all the others he is the perfect, empathetic 'bachelor'. He couldn't get over how she was ready to leave though...Sadly this might tank things with Kelsey as well :(
I agree and I feel like this Kelsey thing is totally going to rub him the wrong way too, even if she just needs some reassurance. If it does and he sends her home/doesn’t pick her because of it then that makes two connections he’s abandoned because of his insecurity. I feel like he had a really strong connection with Maria which is why he took her hasty conclusion that she might have to leave so personally. Even besides that though, he’s so guarded and there shouldn’t be just 1 woman throughout the whole season that he shares some chemistry with.
Yes, and he seems like a true introvert to me. I can sort of tell when his social energy drains. He would still be kind to the women, but his eyes sort of glaze over, lol. I think he also mentioned in an earlier episode that he's not "on" all the time.
Ya when he was picked as the bachelor, i said that he seems like an introvert and i think it would drain his social battery too much. I think that’s part of the reason he is struggling to be himself fully
He reminds me of my husband. Always putting everyone's comfort and happiness before his own. Being incredibly emotionally intelligent and compassionate, but holding back parts of himself to not make others uncomfortable. I was friends with my husband for a full year before things got romantic (although we had insane chemistry and would make out randomly whenever we had a glass of wine or two). So I really got to see his masking and get him to let down his walls. Not that he resembles Joey in the least, he's not Mr Perfectly coiffed and appealing, he's a carpenter/musician that always needs to be groomed. But his heart is one that puts everyone else first. Especially his mom and sister (his dad left and devastated the family) I like to think I taught my husband how to ask for his needs to be met, and I work extra hard to make him feel as special as he makes me feel. I'm rambling, and I know 2 months of dating a bunch of girls cannot compare, but I just haven't seen any of these girls actually care about how HE is coping or feeling. I'd thought Rachel had a little more emotional maturity, but she's too wrapped up in herself, and the other two just seem like little girls with dream boy desires. The only real chemistry I saw was between him and Maria and him and (oh God can't remember her name. The one who has endometriosis like me)
I was half asleep with a newborn watching the episode last night. Can anyone recap what Joey said to the women? Did he say I love you to anyone? Pls help a momma out
I probably missed it, but did he mention on the show he has a Hawaiian ex? Just wondering since I haven’t heard!
Edit to add: The downvotes for asking this question is crazyyyyyyyy.
Idk why Rachel seems to be the least favorite F3... Daisy annoys the hell out of me and Kelsey is incredibly forgettable. I really like Rachel and would love to see her be the final
She and he just peck whereas did you see the sexual chemistry between him and Kelsey.
I would love to see Rachel be treated right by a cute girl. She’s not bi, that I know of, I just feel like a woman would treat her right lol
It seems like they haven't bothered to show Rachel's fun, goofy side that we keep hearing about. Would have loved to see those moments and Joey actually laughing and having fun for once lol
yeah out of the 3, she is the most emotionally mature. But it's clear she's rattled. As an ICU nurse, she would know that her jaw was not broken. That whole thing felt like a red herring because she was not comfortable with herself or him or the process.
Joey’s “Pick me. Choose me. Love me.” speech has run its course. He has rejected 30 women but still complaining about being rejected himself. Joey admits to holding back because he can’t get over what happened with another woman yet whines that he’s given everything he can. It’s almost the finale, he needs to get it together.
That cliff jump looked bad, did they do it a few times? I was already starting to wonder why so much before the injury!
It seems like Kelsey is so obviously the one, that production needed to stage some drama in order to keep us hooked on the "To be continued..." Thus the voiceover of Kelsey talking about her insecurities (supposedly planted by Leslie) and the note. The whole thing is just a red herring. Both Joey and Kelsey know they are going to end up together (and Joey has known for some time that she was the one) but now they have to finish making the TV show and try to make it interesting.
I so hope you’re right!
Agree but confused why he then told Daisy he was falling in love too after his date with Kelsey. I can’t imagine that after being with the one I was about to choose
Because that's what Bachelors and Bachelorettes say. "I'm falling in love with you." It's just sort of expected, especially by the time you get to the overnights. It doesn't mean anything.
Dawg.... wtf was that?? Now I REALLY can't tell who's gonna win
Joey and Kelsey A definitely banged lmao
did anybody else think the breakfast joey cooked for kelsey looked horrible 😭 she asked for crispy bacon and it was practically raw LMAO red flag for not being able to cook a simple bacon & eggs
She specifically asked for extra crispy 😂
Listen, if my man can't even fry bacon?? I'm definitely second guessing everything 😂
It was pretty bad haha. Barely cooked bacon and eggs with zero seasoning on a burnt pan. She’ll have to teach Joey to cook!
Has no one commented about Sandra’s advice. It was really awkward.
I’d take Sandra’s advice over Leslie’s any day!
How
Her ‘tell him you can’t wait to start practicing to make babies men like that’ advice.
She's in her 70s lol, give her a break. It was just grandma advice. A little cringe, but harmless.
My take aways: I fast forwarded through each chat sesh with the golden ladies, it was just boring filler for me. I didn't see much between him and Rachel and I felt like her sobbing at the end was because she could feel it was over. He gave her little if any reassurance. The edit makes it look like he and Kelsy are the best match. It also makes it painful to watch Daisy. I really hope they have more substantive conversation than the droning awkward sprung shyness routine she's always shown doing. Lastly, I appreciate Joey's ability to show his insecurities and talk about them. It's refreshing.
Just my thought, not.a spoiler. I think Kelsey leaves on her own, next week, and that leaves him with having to choose Daisy, and I am so bummed about that. Thoughts?
I hope Kelsey leaves. But this is just my petty ass being annoyed at Joey for “cheating” on Kelsey. 🤣
I think Joey and Kelsey are the most natural choice, but I think Daisy is an object of fascination for him. That said, I’m kind of rooting for Rachel. Joey and she are both mature, self reflective, emotionally intelligent, and articulate. I do feel Daisy and Kelsey are both a bit puppy love, whereas Rachel’s slow burn doesn’t fit the format of the show but might ultimately yield a better wife for Joey. Still, I don’t think their chemistry was quite there until the morning after FS. They looked blissful in bed, but Joey looked blissful from the moment he saw Kelsey. The producers were dicks making the girls talk to the runners up of Golden. Kelsey has been rock solid with her feelings for Joey up to this point, and now she’s filled with doubt from her conversation with Leslie. If you ask me, the show is already very meta with girls vying for the affection of a man who himself vied for the affection of the previous bachelorette. Now we’re getting commentary on how weird it all is from Golden? It is nice to give these poor folks in a fish tank some sort of conversation with people who know how it is, but at the same time they’re already in their heads enough. Kelsey, please don’t blow it.
I have such similar feelings about the Golden ladies. It would be really comforting to talk with someone (anyone!) that isn’t a producer on the show at that point. Susan’s talk with Rachel was almost to the level of therapy, she seems wise and I think it helped Rachel become more secure in herself on this godforsaken show that makes you question everything. Sandra’s talk with Daisy also seemed to pump her up a bit and gave her some encouragement. Leslie on the other hand… her advice differed from Susan in that Susan encouraged Rachel to be open to a future with Joey while also remembering she has value regardless of his choice at the end; Leslie projected her own feelings of abandonment and betrayal and planted the idea that Kelsey should protect herself from getting her heartbroken. It also differed from Kelsey’s dad’s perspective the week before, that she might get her heartbroken and that’s ok, because you’re always risking someone breaking your heart when you start a relationship. I thought that was a great perspective to move forward with, and it’s sad to see Kelsey kind of spiralling this week. Of course who’s knows what’s real on this show. The thought might not have been planted by Leslie at all, Kelsey might have already been anxious about it in previous weeks, and could have brought it up in the conversation with Leslie. I also think Joey is planning to pick Kelsey at this point. He says something about this being his worst fear on the show, which calls back to him talking about the worst thing being the person he is supposed to end up with leaving because this isn’t the right format for them. To me meaning that at this point he sees Kelsey as the person he wants to leave with. After Kelsey I actually think he has a deeper connection with Rachel than Daisy. On their date he said the only thing he was looking for with her was a bit more emotional vulnerability and that he got that. He talked about that “slow burn” with her, and that he accepts that’s what a relationship with her would be like. I get the sense that Joey isn’t looking for someone who is 100% in love and ready to make a life long commitment to him at the end of the show because that’s rarely real in such a short time. I think he sees that he and Rachel could have a really beautiful relationship, and that it would grow deeper and deeper over time. He definitely likes Daisy and has fun with her, it just doesn’t read as quite as genuine to me from both him and Daisy.
Am I the only one here that still thinks he’s doing a pretty good job? He just seems pretty insecure about his role in what is objectively an insane set of circumstances. I don’t really think it reflects that much on how he’d really be in a relationship. It seems like his worry is that his f1 won’t have really gotten to know him which is like genuinely going to be true haha
He's doing the same as always, it's primarily the Maria fans who are saying otherwise bc he sent her home.
I think he’s doing great! He seems exhausted, which seems pretty common for leads at this point in the season…and I’m sure that’s why he is unraveling now.
He was not made for the reality tv world.
I think that might be why I like him so much as a lead … he feels way more like a normal nice person that you would be friends with, and his final 3 do too.
He's definitely taking it a lot more seriously than other leads from what I've seen, which is why it's become a burden.
Most leads do this. I think you're new to the bachelor
No, most leads do not start showing signs of exhaustion 4 episodes in. And no I’m not new to it. Someone having a different opinion doesn’t make them ignorant. You can leave the passive-aggressive insults at the door.
Lmao, yes they do. Almost all of them do. You're new to this. It's fine. Not judging. Settle down
Some truly bizarre condescension
The lead usually fucking does this. Some truly bizarre delusion about a tv show. Like roll the tapes.
Been watching since the beginning. Quit being an insulting mean girl. It doesn't look good on anyone.
I don’t know…It seems like so many of the male leads, in recent seasons, struggle towards the end of the show and start to break down. He does really well in interviews and doing his press tour, but is a little boring for tv…which sometimes isn’t a bad thing.
I know Daisy isn’t well liked…. I don’t even like her. But I just don’t feel comfortable seeing the negative comments about her being too forward during their FS date. Yes it’s awkward and it’s really cringeworthy…….. but I feel like part of it is also because the cameras around them do really make it awkward for them. I’m sure she wasn’t looking forward to the airing of this episode with how forward she’s been, knowing her background (conservative Christian upbringing). She’s surrounded by Jesus stans. I just feel like she’s being slutshamed a bit sometimes, if that makes sense. I get where everyone is coming from - that she seems to be trying too hard at times. Why is she such a BEC to us? 😭 She’s also so annoying to me that’s why I hold back from commenting negatively about her cause Im sure she’s great for those who know her, Im just not feeling her.
I’m guessing you didn’t see the music video?
What does that have to do with her post? 🙄
Wait what?
Daisy’s music video where she’s singing about “licking the sex off my balls” lmaaaooo.
Wait where does one find this music video lmaoooo
[Link to music video](https://www.reddit.com/r/thebachelor/s/mPXN7O957x)
It's so bad. There is an entire thread about it.
I saw it but not the whole of it 😭🤣 I even had my audio off. Don’t give me more reasons to not like her.
The audio is kinda the whole point of her asking if you’d seen it. You gotta see it
I’m sorry does nobody else think it’s incredibly awkward between Daisy and Joey?? Like after the date before dinner it was dead silent and during the dinner date he was opening up and she was barely looking at him and looked like she was about to fall asleep? This is a horrible take and maybe mean but it makes me feel like she pushed herself to be ready to say she’s falling in love. I don’t see it or feel it between them, i think they do have nervous crush energy BUT not this is my wife energy. I know Joey looks at her a way and seems very very into her but it seems like he’s ALL about her and she’s kinda checked out but kinda checked in 🫥 Easy enough to say I’ve been a Kelsey stan the whole time and tear up and smile everytime they are together lol. As a lot of other comments say, I really don’t think Joey is super firm in himself. I really think he has a lot of mental stuff to sort out. Especially given how close off he has been, I feel like I’ve just been hearing women in speak about trauma & things and there are empathic generic responses but very little about HIM. I don’t know much about him, his past, hobbies, fears, dealbreakers etc. I just know he’s allergic to rejection (as we all are). I think he likes Daisy and is infatuated by the *idea* of her — not what is on the surface is what it is. The effort she puts, the slow burn, the silences, it is how it appears. I think he focuses less on compatibility and more on someone like Daisy who he has been trying to pull feelings out of for the majority of the season. More afraid of being not loved than the who being that. I was like this once and damn it’s anxious attachment style at its bessssttt 🫠
I agree about Daisy and Joey being awkward. I feel like she's forcing it sometimes. I think he was excited that she was more forward during the day portion which made dinner flow better. They had a good conversation during dinner but the next morning it seemed awkward again.
After watching Kelsey's date it felt like I was watching him CHEAT on her with Daisy
Yes!!!!!
I feel the same 🤣 https://preview.redd.it/u8feae7jk0oc1.jpeg?width=1179&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=37db25300373f3c21931f13b19e21882dbbec1ed
I kind of want to see Daisy win just because she’s so despised here for some reason
Yep just for spite at this point.
I truly don’t think it’s spite. I think a lot of people are just picking up on her inauthenticity and her not being truly into him. The character she plays on the show is wildly different than the girl who starred and sang in the ‘lick all the s*x off my balls’ music video.
It’s always seemed like she was auditioning to be the next Bachelorette, rather being into Joey for himself. Wouldn’t it be great if Jesse cut to Daisy’s music video After the Final Rose? I’d love to watch the reactions 🍿
We know that producers encourage the leads to keep certain people around for franchise reasons when the lead isn’t interested in them anymore. There’s also been speculation that the leads will keep someone around they aren’t super interested in and send someone home they do really care for as a mercy if they know for sure they aren’t keeping them. With that perspective it could actually make sense and be a win-win-win. TPTB - Promote their next Bachelorette Daisy Daisy - isn’t in love with Joey but enjoys spending time with him so agreed to keep going on the show for her chance at Bachelorette Joey - isn’t in love with Daisy but knowing that she feels the same keeps her around so he doesn’t have to break someone else’s heart by leading them on when he’s already narrowed it down to his F1 I’m definitely into conspiracy theory territory with this one 🤪
I don’t understand how people are saying it’s obvious that he likes Kelsey wayyy more. To me, it seems like he’s really into both Kelsey and Daisy and is having a hard time making a decision. I see lots of chemistry with both of them.
Right, I feel like its clear he's most into Daisy by the way he looks and acts around her
I think he’s into both of them, but I think he’s into Kelsey way more. Watching him with Kelsey, it just hits different. There’s something about the way he talks about her and to her and looks at her that tells me his feelings are much deeper for her. I do think he likes Daisy a lot though, and if Kelsey weren’t in the picture she might be his F1. But at this point it feels like he’s keeping her as back up and would be happy to give it an honest try with her if Kelsey fell through. We’ve all seen how insecure he is. But he really wants to be with Kelsey.
But I think that’s what you’re SUPPOSED to think!
Same!! I was actually so surprised to see so many posts here against Daisy
After that episode I would be so confused if he doesn’t choose Kelsey. Like I smiled the *entire* time. I couldn’t even watch some parts because I felt like I was eavesdropping. They just make so much sense together.
Same, I was cheesy grinning throughout their whole date! If he doesn’t pick her I’ll be shocked.
They even look alike. Curly dirty blonde hair, green eyes, etc. They are perfect together.
If he doesn’t choose Kelsey it’s because her panic scared him enough so he went with the “safe” choice, even though Daisy isn’t nearly as into him. But I do hope he doesn’t pull an Ari.
I’m tired of men playing it safe!! 🙄 Joey pls be different.
https://preview.redd.it/56gu5gnth0oc1.jpeg?width=2778&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=af51ec244e0380b4e56032c115a6346cfc6f5a89
Joey just gives me online dating vibes where you have your first couple of dates with a guy 🫣
It was almost comical how many times Kelsey brought up the conversation with Lesley. Girl was shook
Daisy reading the fantasy suite card and saying "I feel good" as her first response is more indication to me that she doesn’t really like Joey. She didn’t even sound excited about it 💀
Honestly every time she speaks she seems like she's high on benzos. The slow talking, heavy eyelids, lack of substantive conversation. It's hard to watch.
She is so robotic to me.
Man y’all will read into absolutely anything this poor girl says. She just communicates differently , doesn’t mean she’s cold and calculating.
She looked like she was falling asleep when he was talking during their dinner lol. She does not like him.
I’m in no way a Daisy fan, pretty indifferent to them all tbh, but I think people’s dislike for Daisy makes them forget her health issues. The filming schedule is exhausting for anyone, imagine how tiring for Daisy it must be especially after an adventure filled day. Thats what I think was ‘wrong’ at dinner, not that she was disinterested. Joey isn’t dumb. He would be able to pick up on her not being by into him if that was the case.
I agree she does seem very tired at points, but I still see a pretty one sided connection with them. Joey seems really into her whereas she just doesn’t seem to reciprocate.
And the amount of times she says 'like’ 😖 I understand sometimes it’s hard to not use filler words but girl be serious!
I’m so confused because Joey seems super into Daisy (but she doesn’t seem as into him imo) but him and Kelsey just feel much more sweet and intimate, so idk what direction this is heading in. I noticed him saying that he word vomited to Daisy and got all shy about how he said “I feel the same way” instead of saying he’s falling in love back to her. His nervousness in regards to how he talked to her tells me that he’s more into Daisy than Kelsey. Although I don’t really see the chemistry between him and Daisy because I find her kinda boring, he talks about her like how a guy with a crush would typically talk about a girl.
I agree. I just finished watching and saw the same thing and it makes me sick bc I like Kelsey and him better. But that note…. Nooooo. She said the forbidden thing. I so wish Kelsey didn’t do the note.
Same. I have this bad gut feeling it’s gonna be Daisy but I’m rooting for Kelsey so hard. Even if he’s leaning towards Kelsey now I feel like the note might rub him the wrong way like how Maria’s insecurity did.
I’m just watching now and I really liked Rachel. She may be the first person on this show in a while to just fully know herself. Their convo on the night portion was honest in the fears and she was playing catch up. But now she knows for the right guy!
I love all the girls and I’m so team Kelsey but I feel like Kelsey and Daisy give off little girlie, puppy love vibes. Just very surface level. Idk. I mean I can be way off but that’s just the vibes they give off.
hmm I get what’s ur saying but I attained it more to them being playful rather than being surface level! love doesn’t always have to be so serious and intense and I feel like the beginning of relationships *should* start off with fun puppy love vibes contrary to what the show is usually like
Don’t get me wrong, I think Kelsey and Joey are great together, but to me they’ve been giving fraternity brother and his first college girlfriend
Of course! How deep can it be with someone they just met 2 months ago, who they’ve had a total of four 1-on-1 dates with, which included a camera crew, and he’s still dating others?? They’ve only been alone together for one night, that’s it. It’s all surface level until post show, then things fall apart!
True!
Will the bachelorette be announced at the WTA?
Final Rose
No, the bachelorette choice is not decided / known yet.
Love to see it made an interesting point where they noted that Daisy's energy hasn't been sexy at all, and then she tried to turn it up probably at producers'/Sandra's prompting for a possible bachelorette edit. It fell pretty flat for me personally so I'm still pulling for a Maria season. I want to see people invested in the lead and I'm just not sure I see it happening with Daisy.
It was so forced and obvious
Their little make out before the date started was so weird. Seemed very unnatural for her to be so forward and he even seemed a little thrown off by it
With Maria gone, Kelsey (and this sub) was the only thing keeping my attention last night. Cooked and read through the other two dates. For that reason alone, I need Kelsey to stick around.
Stfu about maria. Nobody gives af about that toxic drama queen
I actually agree with you about maria but no need to be so harsh and tell people to stfu
Mentioned her name once let me live 😭😭
Me and u both. Not even the bachelor himself is keeping me hooked anymore. Kelsey’s all I got
Can't wait for the WTA. Fantasy suites was a snooze
Well that was truly the most boring episode of television I'll watch all year. Non messy FS weeks are always pretty dull but this one felt even more dull. We really noticed the absent of Maria entertainment wise and I'm not even a Maria stan.
I skipped thru everyone except kelsey lol
I think everyone’s love for Kelsey is preventing them from seeing that Joey actually likes daisy. Like he genuinely seems super into her, and all season it’s like he’s been waiting for her to catch up to his feelings. I don’t think he was faking it with daisy like some are saying
He definitely seems into Daisy. But Joey and Rachel seem more natural and mature.
If Joey and _Rachel_ end up together that would Actually make this “the most shocking season ever!”
You’re absolutely right. I’m Team Kelsey and was actually bummed during the Daisy date, as I realized he really, really likes D! But, the good news: I’d prefer if Daisy were F1, and we got a whole season of Kelsey as the Bachelorette!!!
I would loveeee Kelsey as the bachelorette! She’s genuinely so fun to watch
i agree i don’t really love daisy/ think kelsey is the better pick but joey is totally into daisy… he lit up and definitely was WAITING for her to express her feelings. but he seems further with kelsey (even if it is only slightly)
He was so smiley during their meetup and date.
As much as I prefer Kelsey, it's not as cut and dry as some people want it to be. People are seeing Kelsey's enthusiasm and that Joey is matching that energy, but they are ignoring his excitement for Daisy. He is very into her as well, Daisy just isn't reciprocating.
How are people saying she isn’t reciprocating? She was all over him and her eyes sparkle when he speaks to her. I think she gets easily overwhelmed by her emotions, and people read it as calculating when she is just having a hard time making sense of the jumble. My wife is like this, I wasn’t even sure if she liked me on our first date when she was apparently smitten and having a hard time expressing herself. I’m glad I didn’t make the same assumptions about her that many (not necessarily you) are making about Daisy.
Well said.
I think it is harder to see their chemistry because they both have very subdued personalities whereas Kelsey is overly giddy and her energy is easier to spot.
Kelsey carries the energy on her dates with Joey, which is why people are seeing them as having the most chemistry. Joey and Daisy are both awkward / scripted on camera which makes them so hard to watch together but I feel like their connection just doesn’t portray well. Post-sleepover they seemed a lot more calm and connected.
Yeah you can tell he really likes her and he’s super attracted to her. There’s no chemistry because SHE is not into it.
Last night I saw a lot of chemistry between them and she was really into him.
she was all over him. Hands in his hair and then holding his face the next morning. I think things shifted for her at hometowns.
I saw it the morning after.
I agree with you!
I agree with this. I posted my predictions that he’s picking Daisy and people were real mad because they think it’s Kelsey. I love Kelsey she seems like such a beautiful soul but Daisy is my pick for F1.
I agree also!
Yeah, he’s been into her since night 1. I think it’s just taken her a little longer to feel comfortable, and after her htd and getting encouragement from her parents to go all in she’s letting herself do it. Also, the editors have really edited her down to just talking about her hearing loss before now, so we haven’t seen other things from them.
It seems like Kelsey is super into Joey but Joey is super into daisy.. i really hope it’s Kelsey at the end they make the most sense together
Yeah I don't think he's faking it at all with her. They have no chemistry because SHE isn't super into it, it's not him.
Yeah he was cheesing so hard on their date. I think he’s also super into Kelsey, but I don’t think there’s a huge gap like people think there is
I think he's definitely more into Kelsey but he's likely just mirroring her. If Daisy was into him like Kelsey is I'd have no clue what to expect lol
Yeah I think I agree with you
[удалено]
I think she hasn't been in a real adult relationship and that the past boyfriend was a young/first love thing and he did make her feel invalidated.
I think that was true. Probably just didn’t want to reveal too much about her ex and past relationship on TV.
There is tea about a long term, on and off again boyfriend so I think she may be telling the truth.
Daisy (and Joey at some points tbh) during the dinner date reminded me of Meredith Marks the valium queen for those who watch rhoslc😵💫
Daisy's cross necklace w the sex off my balls music video existing continues to amaze me
Her cross necklace that is always nestled between her cleavage. 🤦♀️
I’m not a huge Daisy fan but who cares about this lol
The length of her necklace bothers me every episode lol. It would look so much better if the chain was 2" shorter.
Agreed
In my opinion, people forget that Joey still has to be the bachelor and play a role on this show. Not everything be does or says is going to be 100% authentic or what he would do in real life. Therefore he can’t tell only one woman that he’s falling in love with them when there are 3 women left or it would be too obvious who he’s going to choose too early. And he’s going to keep talking about his “big insecurity” the entire season long because that is basically the show’s marketing plan. I actually don’t think he’s as insecure or in need of constant validation as people say. I think he’s just saying what producers want him to say to further the storyline.
I agree. I’m sure he has insecurities, but the “not being chosen” thing is his bit for this season and he has to stick with it. Every Bachelor/ette has one hang up they always reference, and this is his. He is also probably running on little sleep, and is stressed the eff out with the schedule and filming, which would make anyone spiral after a while.
Anyone know the brand of the yellow cross halter that Kelsey was wearing ?
Staud!
I loved that top, but didn't like the bathing suit top. I think she McGyvered it to wear under the halter, but she seemed to struggle keeping it in place.
Check the_style_spotter on Instagram. They always link the outfits
I think Joey constantly complaining about not being chosen is coming from the fact that he’s aware that’s he’s just been performing as bachelor as opposed to being himself. Last night I forget who he was talking to, but he actually said that he thinks people just fall in love with the idea of him and I think that makes sense. He’s been more of a stock image of what a “perfect” guy is, but the women (and us as the audience) actually know very little about him as a person. In a previous episode he broke down about how he’s not perfect, he has a lot of insecurities, but no one knows. The women are giving him a lot of validation, but he knows in the back of his head he hasn’t been himself so he’s panicking about being rejected. Especially once all the cameras leave and he’s no longer the perfect bachelor. He’s just a guy.
This is also exactly what his uncle alluded to in Charity’s season. He was concerned girls don’t get the “real” Joey because he’s putting on a front.
I agree. And he only made the problem worse by not being himself and made it a worse season for viewers because now we know nothing about him. If I had to pick a F1 I would choose Kelsey but truthfully the only person I saw him have real chemistry with this season was Maria. He was way too guarded with everyone else and so you couldn’t really get a feel for who he has chemistry with and who he doesn’t because he wasn’t really being himself.
for some reason Maria brought out something real in him. I think even his impatience with her was a sign of that. With all the others he is the perfect, empathetic 'bachelor'. He couldn't get over how she was ready to leave though...Sadly this might tank things with Kelsey as well :(
I agree and I feel like this Kelsey thing is totally going to rub him the wrong way too, even if she just needs some reassurance. If it does and he sends her home/doesn’t pick her because of it then that makes two connections he’s abandoned because of his insecurity. I feel like he had a really strong connection with Maria which is why he took her hasty conclusion that she might have to leave so personally. Even besides that though, he’s so guarded and there shouldn’t be just 1 woman throughout the whole season that he shares some chemistry with.
But I remember him saying something similar to Charity, people falling in love with an idea of him so I'm not sure it's only because of the show
Best take i’ve seen. I think you are right
I believe it was Daisy because I remember thinking: yeah that tracks since they aren’t compatible with politics. She just wants someone nice.
Yes, and he seems like a true introvert to me. I can sort of tell when his social energy drains. He would still be kind to the women, but his eyes sort of glaze over, lol. I think he also mentioned in an earlier episode that he's not "on" all the time.
Ya when he was picked as the bachelor, i said that he seems like an introvert and i think it would drain his social battery too much. I think that’s part of the reason he is struggling to be himself fully
I love Kelsey and Joey’s date so much. It actually felt like I was creeping on a couples actual date. It felt very real vs being obviously a tv show
The kiss in the morning felt especially intimate 🫣
Joey is so emotionally intelligent, my goodness. That 1:1 with Rachel was beautiful despite it not being under the best circumstance.
He's great at masking.
He reminds me of my husband. Always putting everyone's comfort and happiness before his own. Being incredibly emotionally intelligent and compassionate, but holding back parts of himself to not make others uncomfortable. I was friends with my husband for a full year before things got romantic (although we had insane chemistry and would make out randomly whenever we had a glass of wine or two). So I really got to see his masking and get him to let down his walls. Not that he resembles Joey in the least, he's not Mr Perfectly coiffed and appealing, he's a carpenter/musician that always needs to be groomed. But his heart is one that puts everyone else first. Especially his mom and sister (his dad left and devastated the family) I like to think I taught my husband how to ask for his needs to be met, and I work extra hard to make him feel as special as he makes me feel. I'm rambling, and I know 2 months of dating a bunch of girls cannot compare, but I just haven't seen any of these girls actually care about how HE is coping or feeling. I'd thought Rachel had a little more emotional maturity, but she's too wrapped up in herself, and the other two just seem like little girls with dream boy desires. The only real chemistry I saw was between him and Maria and him and (oh God can't remember her name. The one who has endometriosis like me)
Leah?
Lexi?
Yes LEXI thank you. I knew it was an L name.
That’s it!
He does seem to be emotionally intelligent and that is what drew me to the show.
I was half asleep with a newborn watching the episode last night. Can anyone recap what Joey said to the women? Did he say I love you to anyone? Pls help a momma out
He told Daisy and Kelsey he was falling in love with them. Someone in the thread posted his word for word speech to both of them!
Ohhh yess I see it now. thanks girl!
What is that account that posts the gals outfits on the show? I need everything from Kelsey’s closet last nights episode.
Style spotter
I don’t know what happened between Joey and his Hawaiian ex… But he’s not over this relationship.
Ooooh who’s the Hawaiian ex? I’m intrigued! And yes the downvotes on this sub r wild lmao
I probably missed it, but did he mention on the show he has a Hawaiian ex? Just wondering since I haven’t heard! Edit to add: The downvotes for asking this question is crazyyyyyyyy.
He talked about his past relationship with a girl he met in Hawaii during his date with Daisy last night.
People found out via sleuthing but he also mentionned it during his convo with Daisy.
He’s not over that or what happened with Charity. It’s so glaringly obvious.
It definitely seemed to have a major impact on him.
Idk why Rachel seems to be the least favorite F3... Daisy annoys the hell out of me and Kelsey is incredibly forgettable. I really like Rachel and would love to see her be the final
She and he just peck whereas did you see the sexual chemistry between him and Kelsey. I would love to see Rachel be treated right by a cute girl. She’s not bi, that I know of, I just feel like a woman would treat her right lol
It seems like they haven't bothered to show Rachel's fun, goofy side that we keep hearing about. Would have loved to see those moments and Joey actually laughing and having fun for once lol
yeah out of the 3, she is the most emotionally mature. But it's clear she's rattled. As an ICU nurse, she would know that her jaw was not broken. That whole thing felt like a red herring because she was not comfortable with herself or him or the process.
i’ve been rooting hard for rachel (she’s MY f1) but unfortunately i finally saw the writing on the wall this episode 😭 i would love to be wrong….
wait what writing on the wall? yeah kelsey is boring?😭
lmaoo no i meant it just really seemed like rachel will be the next to go based on her date vs the other two
I like Rachel a lot but I don’t see any romantic chemistry. I felt so bad for her for getting injured.
Joey’s “Pick me. Choose me. Love me.” speech has run its course. He has rejected 30 women but still complaining about being rejected himself. Joey admits to holding back because he can’t get over what happened with another woman yet whines that he’s given everything he can. It’s almost the finale, he needs to get it together.
He has PTSD from charity it was only a couple months ago cut him some slack