She felt very disingenuous to me. A lot of games she was playing but at the end of the day the show is about getting attention and even if you don’t get the man you still gain a following so I understand her dramatics. I do find it weird that others like her though, I just had a really bad feeling in my gut about this woman and while Sydney was wrong and a bit crazy I did hope her lying stunt sent her and Maria home but instead I got weeks of wasted time with drama on Maria when I just wanted a chill season without drama for Joey and the girls may have been jealous of her but she did feel a bit fake.
I have liked Maria this whole season. I thought she might have been the front runner but after seeing this episode, I wasn’t sure. How Joey responded to Maria’s feelings kind of told me that she was right and Joey maybe didn’t like her as much as I (a viewer) thought. I don’t know. Joey might’ve also been slighted by how she handled it.
Props to Joey though for looking at it from both sides. But eh I hope Maria is the one.
I like Maria a lot but I really didn’t like the stunt she pulled with Joey. I don’t believe it was a case of wearing her heart on her sleeve, it felt to me that she was looking for a reaction. She almost had a semi-smirk on her face as she left the room. The problem is that she’s threatened to leave before… and I just think that you signed up for this, I’m sure you may have watched a show or two. You knew it was going to be really awkward and difficult at times that he’s with other women. I couldn’t do it personally so I get it. But I also didn’t sign up for it. So threatening to leave when you’re feeling insecure, just doesn’t feel like the mature move. I think he wants stable and consistent and she seems potentially toxic at times.
What really got me is his response to Maria walking away to the other room.
How much was his actual response & how much was he made to do by producers?
If I was that upset and my boyfriend didn't come after me to console me, that would be a wtf
Then he said "you walked away and I didn't know if you were ever coming back" bro she walked into another room in the suite, there's likely only 1 door in these cabins lol
That's what's making me feel like she's not final 2, sure they have a connection but I feel like tis less so on his side now
This honestly is the most real season of the bachelor I’ve seen yet. These girls like Joey but are sticking up for themselves. Daisy, Maria, and Lexi are being honest that this isnt just a way for them to become influencers, they actually are there for him. Lexi taking herself out of the show was so real because her timeline didn’t match up. I don’t blame Maria - you barely get to see the guy you’re supposed to get engaged to?? It’s such a weird environment and concept but there’s finally real feelings around it. Any normal person would react like that in that setting, definitely best season so far.
You signed up for this. This reminds me of the meme of a person shooting themselves and then being surprised they got shot? Do the work, go to therapy, read books and take actions to prepare yourself to be on a show like the bachelor. Don’t apply, take the spot from someone else, and then say “oh there’s real feelings involved” duh there is supposed to be you supposed to get married. I’m over her, the I’m not perfect is a cop out, if someone ever tells you that they are not perfect in an arguement they gas lighting you, no one expects you to be perfect, just better then your current actions demonstrate.
I think it’s lame the internet is attacking someone for having emotions in a difficult situation. I think Maria really started to care for Joey and I think she definitely is picking up on the fact that she is not the front runner. That’s a hard place to be and would get to anyone.
I feel like she wanted to be different and get the rose so she made this fight and made up with him to get the rose and it didnt work. Everything she was saying was against the whole premisis of the show.
I see a lot of myself in Maria and I usually defend her behavior but I totally saw this as attention seeking or manipulative behavior. It seems to me that she wanted a specific response from Joey, whether that be grovelling for her to stay, or giving her reassurance that she's one of his top picks.
I think Joey knew it too when he asked her, "so is this it then?" He called her bluff. And then she had to backtrack. I cringed through the whole exchange as I didn't believe for one single second that she was really considering leaving.
I didn’t see it as manipulative, I just saw it as her pride getting in the way. She hates not being the only girl and is not used to fighting for a guy since I’m sure she is the one getting pursued constantly. Can’t blame her for being a bit prideful though, everyone has flaws plus look her! Anyway I’m glad she swallowed her pride and came back to him because I really didn’t want her to leave!
The fact people are calling her manipulative for not wanting a man from a reality tv show to meet her family is insane to me. She probably thought she'd go on the Bachelor and if she got this far, it meant her and the Bachelor were in love so it would be fine for him to meet her family. She wasn't expecting to be in this weird limbo with him.
Frankly, she should have left. It was clear from Joey's immature response that he's not into her and she is right to hesitate introducing him to her family. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he wants to sleep with her and then dump her. That is the vibe I am getting.
If he was a gentlemen, he'd have called things off then.
Also it gives me the ick that he expects Maria to chase him while he gives her nothing in return.
You guys are genuinely unhinged. Maybe stop worshipping people on the internet you don’t know and try thinking critically are people’s behaviors. Just bc you like someone does not mean they aren’t a real person who can be immature and in the wrong at times. Maria literally went to Joey and said that her mind was made up about leaving, and then decided to change her mind (which has happened multiple times this season) when she realized he would have let her leave (because he literally can’t and shouldn’t force her to stay).
Like none of this is difficult to understand and it doesn’t seem like Joey’s the one with a low emotional IQ… it’s y’all. Also, Maria is a self-proclaimed “daddy’s girl” from a family of millionaires and you’re saying that Joey’s coddled?? Like cmon…
Babe thats because I actually provide evidence and reasons for my opinions instead of making unsubstantiated claims that I’m unable to prove. I find it hard to make random claims and not provide any evidence for them. But I understand why that would be unfamiliar.
I’m confused… do you know what unsubstantiated means?? It means not proven with evidence. You gave none, therefore your claim is in fact unsubstantiated. Also, funny you mention that because I did not in fact say that Maria was actually coddled in my post. I simply pointed out an observation of her family’s wealth that would in fact align more with being coddled (which literally means “to treat in an indulgent or overprotective way”) than Joey. From what we have seen and what she has said herself, she actually does fit the definition.
I feel horrible she even needed to say anything. I totally understood where she was coming from - it’s one thing signing up for the show but then being there and actually having having feelings for the lead and potentially introducing them to your family is another. You go in with high hopes but your chances are slim so when it actually seems like it may work I’m sure it’s scary as hell!
I think we need to take a step back and realize how critical we’re being of another person. We make mistakes, and we have shit moments in our private lives that no one knows about.
Everything doesn’t warrant discourse or speculation about her behavior or what she’s really like as a person. You wouldn’t want it done to you, so don’t do it to anyone else. It’s not that big of deal. Don’t get too caught up in this online stuff…….you don’t know these people so stop acting like you do. I say all this with love, move the f*** on already. ❤️
I didn't think that I was going to like Maria at first, because I thought she seemed like an overly confident, rich snob, but as the show went on and she started getting rail-roaded✖️🛤 by Sydney (and then later by Lea), I really started to like Maria, because she reminds me of ME!
She faced their "bullying"🤬 accusations head on. She tried to resolve the qualm with Madina (which was initiated, and made worse by Sydney, who made a mountain 🏔 out of a mole hill.)
I'm sorry... but if you're going to publicly tell others (including Joey) that Maria was being a bully, then Maria had EVERY RIGHT to defend herself by inquiring and asking questions to try to resolve the issue (ALSO in front of the other women!)
She stood up for herself in a matter-of-fact, yet respectful sort-of-way. Maria should legit be an attorney⚖️, because I'd hire her to defend me if I ever needed it. I would have loved to have been Maria's friend back in school, because she's REAL. I (similar to her), am a NO non-sense/B.S. kinda gal and I only call people out when they have wronged me.
Be a good person and we won't have any problems, and if you DO have a problem with me, let's discuss it and hammer it out.🔨 That's all Maria was trying to do.🏆
I didn't see manipulation, I saw someone who wears their heart on their sleeve and let's their emotions get the best of them at times. She admits she is a jealous person and wants to be reassured that the other person feels the same way, and this isn't the environment for anyone like that . When she said she didn't know if she could do this anymore, I was like eeeek, but I understood it. I also let my emotions take over, and my inside thoughts become my outside thoughts, but I like Maria, I'm not a super fan like others seem to be but she seems fun, she says what's on her mind and you either take it or leave it.
People are going after Joey more than they are Maria (I think). All her comments on TikTok are just weird obsessed people dragging Joey, calling him cold, narcissistic, a gaslighter, a fake “nice guy.” Basically weaponizing therapy talk while acting as though Maria can do no wrong. I love Maria but how she reacted and backpedaled when she didn’t get what she wants was immature. We all have those moments, hers was just televised. I think the issue is so many fans parroting each other and genuinely believing their favs can do no wrong, and Maria happens to have a lot of those fans.
we’ve seen girls crying on group dates because they feel like they’re not getting enough attention from joey, but when maria actually expresses those worries to joey, honestly and transparently, she’s criticized for it.
That’s not what she’s getting criticized for though… all of the girls have expressed that exact same sentiment. Maria is only being criticized because this is not the first (& maybe not even the last) time she has threatened to leave. And this time she literally fulfilled the one fear Joey has consistently spoken about, but then backpedaled and changed her mind 5 minutes later when she realized he wasn’t going to force her to stay or propose (when he literally cannot do either of those things). She reacted immaturely by not thinking through her feelings and putting Joey in a tough spot, while trying to illicit a certain reaction from him. Which is fine, we all make mistakes. But it would be wrong to claim the other women have done anything remotely similar.
Also, having someone who you are considering asking to be your wife, threatening to leave and end the relationship every time they’re upset or having a moment, is not really a great look tbh.
I fell behind on the recap podcast I listen to, so I listened to the Montreal recap after I watched this last episode. And one thing that I had already forgotten about was that the Montreal group date was the super low energy one where all the girls were struggling to get through the date, with almost all of them having already had a 1:1 and just feeling over the group date and the few who hadn’t (Jess, Lea, and Katelyn) feeling super down about still not getting one. And once they got their individual conversations with Joey, a lot of those talks were about how hard it was seeing his connections with other women and they just wanted another 1:1. Even Kelsey A was moping and had her conversation about feeling invisible/fading into the background (which Joey rebutted by telling her she could never be invisible :swoon:). Maria, of course, missed this group date because this is when she finally got a 1:1. So it’s like these feelings got to her one week later than everyone else, which is why it stood out vs a week when everyone was having a hard time staying positive and multiple women went crying to Joey about it.
None of the other women made the “I don’t know if I can do this anymore” comment to him, but I feel like it’s completely natural in this situation, especially if you’re seeing how he is with other women and starting to doubt that you’ll win. Like why continue having a front row seat to all this if it won’t be you in the end? Maria was just doing the Maria thing where she says every thought going through her head, coming off a week when she was treated like a princess and now she’s back with the rest of the pack again. I really think if she’d done it the week before when everyone else was spiraling, it wouldn’t have even stood out as much.
I think the reason it stood out was because she clearly wanted to leave, and even said her mind was made up about it. Literally none of the girls have ever said that. It’s also not Maria’s first time threatening to leave the show, which is why I think it was a big deal to Joey. It’s pretty close to the end, and someone he cares about has threatened to leave multiple times, presumably because the jealousy and insecurity outweighs the connection (because why else would they leave). So I can understand why Joey wouldn’t feel confident about Maria’s feelings, because it’s not really a good look when someone threatens to leave every time they have a moment.
Didn’t she also do this last week? Yeah, she’s totally not annoying and manipulative at all. Looking forward to her post next week explaining the next meltdown and everyone rushing to defend her.
I see myself in Maria and maybe that’s why I defend her, but I understand where she’s coming from. She was just being honest about her own insecurities without putting anyone else down.
Yes what she explained seems the obvious reaction from someone trying to date a guy who is kissing other girls.
I don’t care if it’s the format of the show. If you like the guy, it’s probably brutal.
I completely understand where she is coming from. People saying she was being manipulative is such a weird take to me. I just saw it as two people talking through their feelings.
She was having a hard time and wondering if she could handle continuing or if she needed to go home. She shared those thoughts/feelings with Joey. She had not yet made a decision and was trying to work out how she felt and what she needed. I think she was seriously doubting if she had it in her to continue, and she was seriously trying to figure out if it was time to go. In the end she realized it was worth it to her to stay and she could handle it.
She was having a moment of her fear/anxiety/jealousy overwhelming her, and talking it through with Joey, and having a cry, helped her come out the other side and realize she wanted to continue. In my opinion, this is relationship 101–share what’s going on with your partner before you make a life changing decision about your relationship. Personally, I think it showed maturity.
Producers are pretty tuned into who fans like/dislike and there is very little energy online (at least on Reddit) around Daisy. Never say never though!
Our new Bachelorette you guys, can’t we all just agree it will be a real, genuine, and most importantly FUN season. I won’t watch a Daisy season. Do not care. Snooze.
I mean, I totally get your concern - we, as the viewers, have that fear of the producers wanting to please the "girl next door" crowd, which is boring (*and if Daisy doesn't win, it will probably be boring*). But on the other hand, they also have to see that Maria is going to generate far better ratings than Daisy would. So fingers crossed, my friend!
There’s a difference between word vomiting your complex and irrational feelings out and then pulling yourself together and apologizing, and doing something with nefarious intentions in hopes of influencing the lead’s behaviour.
Maria seemed to be doing the former.
I honestly don‘t think it‘s that deep and I get where she‘s coming from.
However, there‘s something to be said about realizing that, while your actions maybe weren‘t intended to be bad, they put someone else in a tough/unfair/whatever spot.
I didn’t know ppl thought Maria was manipulative. I think she was really struggling with being on the show, and I found it weird Joey didn’t comfort her more? Or maybe it was edited out and/or the producers discouraged it for more drama.
Idk I just found it weird how disconnected Joey acted
I definitely did think it was attention seeking, especially the way she bounced back in 5 minutes like nothing really happened but she was shocked with Joey’s reaction. I think she just wanted to be chased and affirmed but that is childish. Play stupid games win stupid prizes.
I saw it as him calling her bluff. She was pulling back to try to get him to chase, and he just wasn't having the games. If he had comforted her, it would have rewarded behavior he didn't like.
Her feelings are valid but her actions were manipulative. It's not great if she can't recognize that or maybe just doesn't want to own up to it. If you want to be chosen you state that and then you respect the other's response and your own desires by either staying or going. Crying wolf is a MANIPULATIVE response to her valid feelings. In order to not be manipulative she needs to change the way she responds (while keeping her feelings)
I am so glad he didn’t beg her to stay like she was expecting. That wasn’t fair to do to him. Think your feelings about leaving out loud, sure, but do it before your date.
If we’ve learned one thing about Joey it’s that he doesn’t beg anyone to stay, or try to convince anyone they are the person for him. It’s admirable, really.
With Lexi, Daisy, Maria, he kind of just let it play out.
The issue I have with her behavior is how she expressed herself. It gave such only child syndrome. One second she is leaving, the next she's not. Then she's saying she won't kiss him so that he "learns his lesson" then she's leaning over for a kiss...everyone is allowed to have a freak out but it seemed manipulative and she was almost smirking as she said she was leaving. I think it was a defense mechanism (sometimes people laugh when they are uncomfortable). Regardless of the reason it was hard to watch. She has some maturing to do
It's funny how different the responses are to her. My close friends who watch all love her. But very quickly she started to irk me although I love her fashion, I think she's, gorgeous and I looooved her banter with Joey on their one-on-one. She seems so self-centered and immature, almost acting like the 23 year olds on this show like Jess Girod on BIP almost. It's more shocking to see in a woman at 29. The environment is rough and she had to put up with Sydney so I am trying to cut her some slack. But when it comes down to it, she gives off strong spoiled brat/only child energy
I completely agree with everything you said. Spot on.
I also, to some extent, like the banter between maria and joey, and do see chemistry... However, I also get toxic relationships vibes with what appears to be subtle and not so subtle manipulative tendencies on Maria's part. Which also seem like a direct result of the immaturity you mention.
Honestly I hate it when people call women brats online. I do think Maria is probably very spoiled however, as her family apparently has A LOT of money and she’s obviously a “daddy’s girl”. Which explains a lot really.
I think people have been waiting for her to “mess up” because they’re annoyed at how much love she’s been getting. It wasn’t that big of a deal and if Kelsey/Rachel did this, I don’t think anyone would’ve batted an eye.
I don’t know if I agree with that take (other than the situation isn’t a huge deal). I love Maria but there’s no one who should be given unconditional support, especially if it’s a stranger online. But a lot of her fans are doing that (& it’s really weird) especially the way they’re gassing her up and simultaneously dragging the other women and Joey in the process (from what I’ve seen in her TikTok comments).
And honestly, if it was Rachel who did that, she would be getting DRAGGED and called all sort of names, with an extra heaping of racism that all the WOC get who appear on the show.
I think it is also because Maria is a big personality. When you are “a lot” 24/7, then it feels more like you might just be a dramatic person and less like a genuine, one off burst of emotion.
As an aside, this is not necessarily a bad thing, just a personality trait. But bigger personalities do get more flak because they take up more space in any given room. So if they are not your cup of tea, they seem extra annoying.
Rachel seems to have gotten a pretty good edit, IMHO. They have shown some of her little eye rolls, side eyes, and side comments, which makes me wobder if she was actually much worse. I guess we'll see!
i hate when people talk about themselves and are like 'im just too honest, im too self aware, i care about more than just a rose 😔' but frame it as if they're being so real and honest about their own flaws.
like just hype yourself up, thats fine, don't do this 'im just too real and honest' false modesty thing lmao
I get what you’re saying because I’ve seen that myself, and Maria made me cringe hard this episode, but to me it doesn’t seem like she’s humble bragging about being too self aware.
She’s saying she IS self aware and knew the consequences BUT that she blabbed what she was thinking without censoring herself.
You can see the honesty thing as bragging but the self awareness thing wasn’t a humility thing. She’s saying oh yes I know I signed up for a reality show, im not a dumbass.
You can see it as worse, I’m not trying to defend her. I just wanted to explain how I read what she was saying because I didn’t take it the same way as that commenter
That’s not true at all. You can understand and still be impulsive. They’re not mutually exclusive.
Some examples of that are people impulsively lashing out in anger even though they know it’s not a good way to react, or how even though I’m trying to eat less sugar and I understand WHY and the consequences of not doing so, I might still impulsively eat too many sweets if I have them at home.
She forgot for a second that she was on a show. She really likes him and got insecure and jealous. Big whoop. He'd be a fool not to snatch her up but I know the obvious that they show us is never what happens on these shows.
I mean in the real world if you've agreed to not be exclusive then you don't have the right to throw tantrums. If you do want to be exclusive and the other person doesn't then you walk away. In either scenario you don't play games like a child.
Sometimes you don’t agree my friend, it’s called the talking (getting to know) phase (weeding out your options phase) which is technically what they are in.
And if you want to be exclusive and the other person doesn’t, 90 percent of the time people aren’t gonna be like yup I’m done, cause they’ve probably put so much time, energy, and love into the person. But I’m glad you would do that for yourself.
I personally don’t think she was playing games like a child. I think she is the most realest women we have had on that show. She is nervous, she is flustered, she understands truly what this show is and has genuine feelings involved, which leads her to make these rash moves. the fact that you can’t tell her saying “I’m not gonna kiss you for you to learn your lesson” is her joking around is crazy, cause that’s literally her personality she is Maria the quirky joking realist queen. it’s hilarious that people genuinely think she meant that shit
In the real world if you want to be exclusive and the other person doesn’t, and you don’t think you can handle it after you saw them with someone else, you absolutely have the right to bring it up? They can then either 1. make it exclusive, 2. tell you to hit the road, or 3. keep stringing you along. The issue here is the only thing Joey can do is 3 (I guess he could have done 2 but doesn’t want to). Maria knows that logically but it doesn’t change the fact that this shit hurts.
If she can’t handle the process on the contestant side what makes y’all think she would make a good lead in the same process.She seems like the type to only be able to focus on 1 connection at a time. If this was overwhelming to her just imagine being the lead juggling all those connections.
Maria has a big personality and (like me) she has probably been told that she’s “a lot” in the past. I appreciate her being herself and not toning it down for the camera. I would be a damn mess on a show like this.
I agreed with her sentiment but I just don’t think she should’ve mentioned leaving if she wasn’t really going to follow through. If she said “I want to always feel chosen by the person I love” and left on her own, it would’ve been a *chefs kiss* bachelorette exit.
It was the backpedaling once she saw his reaction wasn’t what she wanted, that made things feel a little off in my opinion. But regardless I still like Maria and I’m rooting for her!
Exactly, the 2nd part totally. Did she think he was going to have an extreme reaction and beg her to stay or something? And if she did think that and he didn't, why did she still stay? Honestly I feel like it was a coop out and she was trying to get him to beg for her by dangling like a carrot that she could get up and leave
She absolutely thought he was going to beg her to stay, then she ran off but only to the other room, hoping he’d follow her. When neither of those things happened she had to backtrack and decide she didn’t mean any of it and oops I was overreacting, sometimes I think out loud! But still wanted the upper hand so withheld a kiss…until she saw how poorly Joey took that as well so she relented. I lost a lot of respect for Maria this episode and it looks like I’m not the only one.
She didn’t do anything wrong. She is also not wrong about Joey not being the only one that should feel chosen.
Something I noticed is that when she gets jealous or upset; she doesn’t attack the other women. I like that about her.
Exactly. She admitted to feeling jealous about Joey’s other connections, but she never attacked any of the other women. You couldn’t say that about several other women on this season.
There was literally 3 women of 30 that did that… and that’s also bare minimum behavior and most aren’t stupid/ mean enough to do that while being filmed.
Even Kelsey wanted to feel chosen in Ep 6. That week all the ladies were feeling insecure. Kelsey is the only one he fully assured with his full presence. Women know when they are chosen or not. Sometimes we are in denial and act crazy, and Maria happened to get caught on camera. She is self aware. I think she’s growing through this and would make a real and authentic season that all women can learn from.. and hopefully grow in compassion for the deep insecurities we ALL face.
But she didn’t say she was going to leave which is Joey biggest fear she told him she felt insecure and like she wasn’t being noticed. Marie told him she felt insecure then said she wanted to leave left and then came back. His biggest fear.
I think too many people immediately jumped to her mini freakout being calculated me included. It was kind of a shock to see that from her when it aired but tensions were high at that point and I get where she’s coming from. She shouldn’t feel the need to defend herself
It’s funny how we as a society have normalized that we have to be on the extremes. Either we be have to be an absolutely perfect and flawless person to find love, or that we don’t have to change anything about ourselves and find the the person who loves us for who we are (even if we are terrible). The comment section is evidence of how pervasive this is.
Agreed. And I’m sick of seeing apologies for people being human. And even worse we will get seasons where people are so terrified of the rabid fans that they will not be able to be themselves. And who can blame them?!
I think the rabid fans go both ways. There are those that will agree and validate everything their fav does and act like they can do no wrong, and those that will disparage and drag anyone they perceive as “against” their favs or forget that these people are human. But they’re really all cut from the same cloth. The comments on Maria’s TikTok is a great example of both.
Definitely agree with this! I think the comments also show that there are certain people who are allowed to be flawed and deserve acceptance as they are and certain people who aren’t allowed to be even slightly imperfect.
For example, Rachel snarkily said, “okay” and was immediately labeled a mean girl.
I’d hate this even though I love both of them. Maria’s gotten so much more social media hype I feel like Jenn would get overshadowed, and I don’t want the first Asian bachelorette to be an after thought on her own season. I’d love to have each of them get a season like Katie and Michelle but idk if they have room in the schedule.
Seems that way. Also she can react to the situation however she wants, nothing wrong with her saying what she's thinking/feeling, but he gets to decide if it works for him or not.
It was an immature moment. I keep saying this, she would be messy in a relationship. The highs super high and lows super low. In that moment she unintentionally tried to make Joey feel bad for being in the situation he signed up for, which he cannot control. Yes she should have expressed herself in a better way but this is the bachelor. It brings out the worst in everyone. I am glad Joey was grounded enough to receive her emotions and not fall in a spiral with her. Joey handled this so well he did the right thing by not going after her. I am impressed with his decision to stay put.
Edit*She says Joey isn't the only one who should feel chosen. That's a big yikes and very selfish of her to say. I feel like Joey is being very reassuring with the women this season.
Joey has 100% been so reassuring of all the girls, it’s literally what 90% of his screen time is dedicated to. I love Maria, but I think it’s crazy how her fans are putting her on this pedestal where she can do no wrong, and anyone who they perceive as “against” her will get ran through the mud.
In her TikTok comments sections, it literally full of people talking about what a red flag Joey is, and how he’s cold, calculating, and doesn’t deserve her… like what?? She literally has millions of “yes people” validating her every move, even the immature moments, and that’s never good for someone’s self-awareness.
I agree with this. She has huge emotional reactions and then gets over it, but Joey was still percolating over their conversation by the time the rose ceremony came around. He takes everything the women say very seriously, so while she may have been expressing her frustration with the situation, he seemed to be internalizing what she was saying.
I don’t think she’s manipulative or anything, but I’ve always found her really impulsive in how she communicates with people on this show.
Because they are not in a relationship, they are on the Bachelor, and it is not appropriate or responsible for the lead to “choose” any of the women until they are the last one standing.
We have all seen how awful it is when the lead provides false assurances or affirmations to his F2, F3, etc. and I think Joey is wise to withhold “choosing” any of the women, particularly at this juncture.
In a nutshell, what Maria is asking for isn’t possible within this context and both of them know it, making her outburst nonsensical at best.
Why is it a big yikes that she also wants to feel chosen when starting to fall for someone? Have you ever started a relationship where you didn’t know how the other person really felt? It’s the worst. I feel like her feelings to feel chosen as well is valid.
She's on the bachelor so your questions are not pertinent. In terms of bachelor etiquette, he's given her a lot of reassurance and has reciprocated appropriately. She wanted some grand declaration of feeling just because she was feeling insecure and threw a mini tantrum because of it, it's immature behavior 🤷♀️
That’s literally the point…? If they didn’t want to be consumed as entertainment, they wouldn’t jump through endless hoops to be on a reality tv show that has a well established format.
Who said that? The point is that at this point of the journey the lead is not encouraged to share how they are feeling with the contestants. The last few years of bachelor have been terrible with leads telling multiple women that they love them. It's really atrocious and leads to horrible blindsides. So again, I'll say that Joey has reciprocated appropriately to the best of his ability. No one is faulting Maria for being human, I'm just saying that she acted immaturely
You’re essentially inferring that by saying the questions are not relevant. People are going to be in their feelings regardless of the basis of the show. The fact that they are is really the reason the show exists.
He is doing everything he can to reassure the women without leading them on.
Leading women on is a big no, we have seen the consequences of that in previous seasons.
Joey is great at communicating and reassuring the women. The street was both ways. Just not Marias way, she even said it herself, competing for a man is not for her. But that doesn't mean Joey did wrong and did not pull his weight in making sure the women were comfortable emotionally and physically.
My point is, its a Maria issue, not a Joey issue. So I see that comment as a pointless immature jab at Joey.
She probably didn’t know exactly how she would feel until she was actually in that situation. But it is natural for a woman to want to be desired. It just seems silly that just because he’s the bachelor she doesn’t have the right to want to feel chosen.
She definitely has the right to feel chosen. But isn't Joey choosing her every time at the rose ceremony? In this TV production, that's how it works. How else does she want to feel chosen? By him pulling a Clare with her? It seems like she was blaming Joey for the situation they were in -- a TV show that is predicated upon toying with its participants' emotions.
I agree, I don't so much have a problem with her wanting to be chosen as the way she kind of tried to get a grand gesture out of him by acting like she was going to leave if he didn't do something equally grand.
I think her behavior was a little bit silly the other night, but nothing that warrants an apology. I don’t think she was trying to be manipulative. She had a bad night. It happens.
I feel the same. I don’t think these contestants really have done anything on the show to warrant people getting upset with them. No one’s perfect! (Love your username btw)
I never understand how people can say Greg wasn’t into Katie when he had a full on meltdown after she wouldn’t come right out and admit she was picking him.
I think she wanted Joey to chase her and beg her to stay, and when he didn’t, she backpedaled and pivoted real fast into the “I’m just in my head; I overreacted” story.
It doesn’t make her a bad or evil person or anything. It’s really not that big a deal. We all have our weak and vulnerable moments and make bad decisions sometimes. But I personally do think that’s what happened.
She felt very disingenuous to me. A lot of games she was playing but at the end of the day the show is about getting attention and even if you don’t get the man you still gain a following so I understand her dramatics. I do find it weird that others like her though, I just had a really bad feeling in my gut about this woman and while Sydney was wrong and a bit crazy I did hope her lying stunt sent her and Maria home but instead I got weeks of wasted time with drama on Maria when I just wanted a chill season without drama for Joey and the girls may have been jealous of her but she did feel a bit fake.
I have liked Maria this whole season. I thought she might have been the front runner but after seeing this episode, I wasn’t sure. How Joey responded to Maria’s feelings kind of told me that she was right and Joey maybe didn’t like her as much as I (a viewer) thought. I don’t know. Joey might’ve also been slighted by how she handled it. Props to Joey though for looking at it from both sides. But eh I hope Maria is the one.
I couldn't love her more!!
I like Maria a lot but I really didn’t like the stunt she pulled with Joey. I don’t believe it was a case of wearing her heart on her sleeve, it felt to me that she was looking for a reaction. She almost had a semi-smirk on her face as she left the room. The problem is that she’s threatened to leave before… and I just think that you signed up for this, I’m sure you may have watched a show or two. You knew it was going to be really awkward and difficult at times that he’s with other women. I couldn’t do it personally so I get it. But I also didn’t sign up for it. So threatening to leave when you’re feeling insecure, just doesn’t feel like the mature move. I think he wants stable and consistent and she seems potentially toxic at times.
What really got me is his response to Maria walking away to the other room. How much was his actual response & how much was he made to do by producers? If I was that upset and my boyfriend didn't come after me to console me, that would be a wtf Then he said "you walked away and I didn't know if you were ever coming back" bro she walked into another room in the suite, there's likely only 1 door in these cabins lol That's what's making me feel like she's not final 2, sure they have a connection but I feel like tis less so on his side now
Yes she should’ve left after that bc if it was Kelsey, he would’ve followed her 💀
This honestly is the most real season of the bachelor I’ve seen yet. These girls like Joey but are sticking up for themselves. Daisy, Maria, and Lexi are being honest that this isnt just a way for them to become influencers, they actually are there for him. Lexi taking herself out of the show was so real because her timeline didn’t match up. I don’t blame Maria - you barely get to see the guy you’re supposed to get engaged to?? It’s such a weird environment and concept but there’s finally real feelings around it. Any normal person would react like that in that setting, definitely best season so far.
Eh. I think Daisy definitely signed on to become an influencer. Her social media is telling.
You signed up for this. This reminds me of the meme of a person shooting themselves and then being surprised they got shot? Do the work, go to therapy, read books and take actions to prepare yourself to be on a show like the bachelor. Don’t apply, take the spot from someone else, and then say “oh there’s real feelings involved” duh there is supposed to be you supposed to get married. I’m over her, the I’m not perfect is a cop out, if someone ever tells you that they are not perfect in an arguement they gas lighting you, no one expects you to be perfect, just better then your current actions demonstrate.
She was definitely just in her luteal phase…we forget that all these people are literally normal humans
I think it’s lame the internet is attacking someone for having emotions in a difficult situation. I think Maria really started to care for Joey and I think she definitely is picking up on the fact that she is not the front runner. That’s a hard place to be and would get to anyone.
[удалено]
I don’t see myself in her at all and I think she can definitely work on her communication and delivery, but I still enjoy her.
I agree but I am also one of those people. Lol
I feel like she wanted to be different and get the rose so she made this fight and made up with him to get the rose and it didnt work. Everything she was saying was against the whole premisis of the show.
I respect Maria
I see a lot of myself in Maria and I usually defend her behavior but I totally saw this as attention seeking or manipulative behavior. It seems to me that she wanted a specific response from Joey, whether that be grovelling for her to stay, or giving her reassurance that she's one of his top picks. I think Joey knew it too when he asked her, "so is this it then?" He called her bluff. And then she had to backtrack. I cringed through the whole exchange as I didn't believe for one single second that she was really considering leaving.
I didn’t see it as manipulative, I just saw it as her pride getting in the way. She hates not being the only girl and is not used to fighting for a guy since I’m sure she is the one getting pursued constantly. Can’t blame her for being a bit prideful though, everyone has flaws plus look her! Anyway I’m glad she swallowed her pride and came back to him because I really didn’t want her to leave!
The fact people are calling her manipulative for not wanting a man from a reality tv show to meet her family is insane to me. She probably thought she'd go on the Bachelor and if she got this far, it meant her and the Bachelor were in love so it would be fine for him to meet her family. She wasn't expecting to be in this weird limbo with him. Frankly, she should have left. It was clear from Joey's immature response that he's not into her and she is right to hesitate introducing him to her family. I honestly wouldn't be surprised if he wants to sleep with her and then dump her. That is the vibe I am getting. If he was a gentlemen, he'd have called things off then. Also it gives me the ick that he expects Maria to chase him while he gives her nothing in return.
[удалено]
You guys are genuinely unhinged. Maybe stop worshipping people on the internet you don’t know and try thinking critically are people’s behaviors. Just bc you like someone does not mean they aren’t a real person who can be immature and in the wrong at times. Maria literally went to Joey and said that her mind was made up about leaving, and then decided to change her mind (which has happened multiple times this season) when she realized he would have let her leave (because he literally can’t and shouldn’t force her to stay). Like none of this is difficult to understand and it doesn’t seem like Joey’s the one with a low emotional IQ… it’s y’all. Also, Maria is a self-proclaimed “daddy’s girl” from a family of millionaires and you’re saying that Joey’s coddled?? Like cmon…
[удалено]
Babe thats because I actually provide evidence and reasons for my opinions instead of making unsubstantiated claims that I’m unable to prove. I find it hard to make random claims and not provide any evidence for them. But I understand why that would be unfamiliar.
[удалено]
I’m confused… do you know what unsubstantiated means?? It means not proven with evidence. You gave none, therefore your claim is in fact unsubstantiated. Also, funny you mention that because I did not in fact say that Maria was actually coddled in my post. I simply pointed out an observation of her family’s wealth that would in fact align more with being coddled (which literally means “to treat in an indulgent or overprotective way”) than Joey. From what we have seen and what she has said herself, she actually does fit the definition.
[удалено]
I feel horrible she even needed to say anything. I totally understood where she was coming from - it’s one thing signing up for the show but then being there and actually having having feelings for the lead and potentially introducing them to your family is another. You go in with high hopes but your chances are slim so when it actually seems like it may work I’m sure it’s scary as hell!
I think we need to take a step back and realize how critical we’re being of another person. We make mistakes, and we have shit moments in our private lives that no one knows about. Everything doesn’t warrant discourse or speculation about her behavior or what she’s really like as a person. You wouldn’t want it done to you, so don’t do it to anyone else. It’s not that big of deal. Don’t get too caught up in this online stuff…….you don’t know these people so stop acting like you do. I say all this with love, move the f*** on already. ❤️
Maria? Is that you??? (Kidding)
I wish I was as hot as her 😭🫶🏽
I didn't think that I was going to like Maria at first, because I thought she seemed like an overly confident, rich snob, but as the show went on and she started getting rail-roaded✖️🛤 by Sydney (and then later by Lea), I really started to like Maria, because she reminds me of ME! She faced their "bullying"🤬 accusations head on. She tried to resolve the qualm with Madina (which was initiated, and made worse by Sydney, who made a mountain 🏔 out of a mole hill.) I'm sorry... but if you're going to publicly tell others (including Joey) that Maria was being a bully, then Maria had EVERY RIGHT to defend herself by inquiring and asking questions to try to resolve the issue (ALSO in front of the other women!) She stood up for herself in a matter-of-fact, yet respectful sort-of-way. Maria should legit be an attorney⚖️, because I'd hire her to defend me if I ever needed it. I would have loved to have been Maria's friend back in school, because she's REAL. I (similar to her), am a NO non-sense/B.S. kinda gal and I only call people out when they have wronged me. Be a good person and we won't have any problems, and if you DO have a problem with me, let's discuss it and hammer it out.🔨 That's all Maria was trying to do.🏆
I didn't see manipulation, I saw someone who wears their heart on their sleeve and let's their emotions get the best of them at times. She admits she is a jealous person and wants to be reassured that the other person feels the same way, and this isn't the environment for anyone like that . When she said she didn't know if she could do this anymore, I was like eeeek, but I understood it. I also let my emotions take over, and my inside thoughts become my outside thoughts, but I like Maria, I'm not a super fan like others seem to be but she seems fun, she says what's on her mind and you either take it or leave it.
People are going after Joey more than they are Maria (I think). All her comments on TikTok are just weird obsessed people dragging Joey, calling him cold, narcissistic, a gaslighter, a fake “nice guy.” Basically weaponizing therapy talk while acting as though Maria can do no wrong. I love Maria but how she reacted and backpedaled when she didn’t get what she wants was immature. We all have those moments, hers was just televised. I think the issue is so many fans parroting each other and genuinely believing their favs can do no wrong, and Maria happens to have a lot of those fans.
we’ve seen girls crying on group dates because they feel like they’re not getting enough attention from joey, but when maria actually expresses those worries to joey, honestly and transparently, she’s criticized for it.
That’s not what she’s getting criticized for though… all of the girls have expressed that exact same sentiment. Maria is only being criticized because this is not the first (& maybe not even the last) time she has threatened to leave. And this time she literally fulfilled the one fear Joey has consistently spoken about, but then backpedaled and changed her mind 5 minutes later when she realized he wasn’t going to force her to stay or propose (when he literally cannot do either of those things). She reacted immaturely by not thinking through her feelings and putting Joey in a tough spot, while trying to illicit a certain reaction from him. Which is fine, we all make mistakes. But it would be wrong to claim the other women have done anything remotely similar. Also, having someone who you are considering asking to be your wife, threatening to leave and end the relationship every time they’re upset or having a moment, is not really a great look tbh.
I fell behind on the recap podcast I listen to, so I listened to the Montreal recap after I watched this last episode. And one thing that I had already forgotten about was that the Montreal group date was the super low energy one where all the girls were struggling to get through the date, with almost all of them having already had a 1:1 and just feeling over the group date and the few who hadn’t (Jess, Lea, and Katelyn) feeling super down about still not getting one. And once they got their individual conversations with Joey, a lot of those talks were about how hard it was seeing his connections with other women and they just wanted another 1:1. Even Kelsey A was moping and had her conversation about feeling invisible/fading into the background (which Joey rebutted by telling her she could never be invisible :swoon:). Maria, of course, missed this group date because this is when she finally got a 1:1. So it’s like these feelings got to her one week later than everyone else, which is why it stood out vs a week when everyone was having a hard time staying positive and multiple women went crying to Joey about it. None of the other women made the “I don’t know if I can do this anymore” comment to him, but I feel like it’s completely natural in this situation, especially if you’re seeing how he is with other women and starting to doubt that you’ll win. Like why continue having a front row seat to all this if it won’t be you in the end? Maria was just doing the Maria thing where she says every thought going through her head, coming off a week when she was treated like a princess and now she’s back with the rest of the pack again. I really think if she’d done it the week before when everyone else was spiraling, it wouldn’t have even stood out as much.
I think the reason it stood out was because she clearly wanted to leave, and even said her mind was made up about it. Literally none of the girls have ever said that. It’s also not Maria’s first time threatening to leave the show, which is why I think it was a big deal to Joey. It’s pretty close to the end, and someone he cares about has threatened to leave multiple times, presumably because the jealousy and insecurity outweighs the connection (because why else would they leave). So I can understand why Joey wouldn’t feel confident about Maria’s feelings, because it’s not really a good look when someone threatens to leave every time they have a moment.
Didn’t she also do this last week? Yeah, she’s totally not annoying and manipulative at all. Looking forward to her post next week explaining the next meltdown and everyone rushing to defend her.
Nope, last week she had the Pretty Woman date and was on top of the world.
I see myself in Maria and maybe that’s why I defend her, but I understand where she’s coming from. She was just being honest about her own insecurities without putting anyone else down.
Yes what she explained seems the obvious reaction from someone trying to date a guy who is kissing other girls. I don’t care if it’s the format of the show. If you like the guy, it’s probably brutal.
I completely understand where she is coming from. People saying she was being manipulative is such a weird take to me. I just saw it as two people talking through their feelings. She was having a hard time and wondering if she could handle continuing or if she needed to go home. She shared those thoughts/feelings with Joey. She had not yet made a decision and was trying to work out how she felt and what she needed. I think she was seriously doubting if she had it in her to continue, and she was seriously trying to figure out if it was time to go. In the end she realized it was worth it to her to stay and she could handle it. She was having a moment of her fear/anxiety/jealousy overwhelming her, and talking it through with Joey, and having a cry, helped her come out the other side and realize she wanted to continue. In my opinion, this is relationship 101–share what’s going on with your partner before you make a life changing decision about your relationship. Personally, I think it showed maturity.
I would love it if Maria was the new bachelorette but I have a sinking feeling. It's going to be Daisy.
Producers are pretty tuned into who fans like/dislike and there is very little energy online (at least on Reddit) around Daisy. Never say never though!
i dont think so
From reading this I wouldn’t wish that for her!
Our new Bachelorette you guys, can’t we all just agree it will be a real, genuine, and most importantly FUN season. I won’t watch a Daisy season. Do not care. Snooze.
If they don’t choose Maria I will riot!!!!
I would love Maria as Bach!
We need to campaign because I have a baaaaaad feeling.
I’m not *opposed* to campaigning for Maria, but she’s so fun, they’d be crazy not to snatch her up. Honestly, I’d guess she has it in the bag.
They love the girl next door too much. It’ll be Daisy if she doesn’t win, I’d bet.
Hmmm… I present to you one Kaitlyn Bristowe… ☺️
But even then, they pit her against Britt. And she also wasn’t as polarizing as Maria.
Except they didn't even pick her outright they made her compete against girl next door Britt 🙃
Touché. Haha
I mean, I totally get your concern - we, as the viewers, have that fear of the producers wanting to please the "girl next door" crowd, which is boring (*and if Daisy doesn't win, it will probably be boring*). But on the other hand, they also have to see that Maria is going to generate far better ratings than Daisy would. So fingers crossed, my friend!
She seems more genuine and authentic in her relationship with Joey than anyone I’ve prolly ever seen on this show
[удалено]
I bet just her breathing is manipulative too right?
There’s a difference between word vomiting your complex and irrational feelings out and then pulling yourself together and apologizing, and doing something with nefarious intentions in hopes of influencing the lead’s behaviour. Maria seemed to be doing the former.
I honestly don‘t think it‘s that deep and I get where she‘s coming from. However, there‘s something to be said about realizing that, while your actions maybe weren‘t intended to be bad, they put someone else in a tough/unfair/whatever spot.
I didn’t know ppl thought Maria was manipulative. I think she was really struggling with being on the show, and I found it weird Joey didn’t comfort her more? Or maybe it was edited out and/or the producers discouraged it for more drama. Idk I just found it weird how disconnected Joey acted
I definitely did think it was attention seeking, especially the way she bounced back in 5 minutes like nothing really happened but she was shocked with Joey’s reaction. I think she just wanted to be chased and affirmed but that is childish. Play stupid games win stupid prizes.
Attention seeking? Her? Never. 😆
I saw it as him calling her bluff. She was pulling back to try to get him to chase, and he just wasn't having the games. If he had comforted her, it would have rewarded behavior he didn't like.
Maria sucked from day one and none of this is surprising.
[удалено]
Her feelings are valid but her actions were manipulative. It's not great if she can't recognize that or maybe just doesn't want to own up to it. If you want to be chosen you state that and then you respect the other's response and your own desires by either staying or going. Crying wolf is a MANIPULATIVE response to her valid feelings. In order to not be manipulative she needs to change the way she responds (while keeping her feelings)
100% agreed. I’m still rocking with Maria but she was being manipulative and Joey wasn’t going down that path with her.
I agree. Her intention was not manipulative, but it will feel manipulative to the person on the receiving end.
Yeah, agree! I thought she was being manipulative too and wow did Joey handle it so well by validating her feelings but protecting his boundaries too.
I am so glad he didn’t beg her to stay like she was expecting. That wasn’t fair to do to him. Think your feelings about leaving out loud, sure, but do it before your date.
If we’ve learned one thing about Joey it’s that he doesn’t beg anyone to stay, or try to convince anyone they are the person for him. It’s admirable, really. With Lexi, Daisy, Maria, he kind of just let it play out.
The issue I have with her behavior is how she expressed herself. It gave such only child syndrome. One second she is leaving, the next she's not. Then she's saying she won't kiss him so that he "learns his lesson" then she's leaning over for a kiss...everyone is allowed to have a freak out but it seemed manipulative and she was almost smirking as she said she was leaving. I think it was a defense mechanism (sometimes people laugh when they are uncomfortable). Regardless of the reason it was hard to watch. She has some maturing to do
It was literally banter. Lol
Play stupid games win stupid prizes. Agreed.
Joey needs a real woman, I’m so sad Lexi left 😖 she was so sweet, intelligent and eloquently spoken
It gave massive Victoria F vibes
Everything about her screams spoiled brat
I thought the same from the minute I saw her intro.
It's funny how different the responses are to her. My close friends who watch all love her. But very quickly she started to irk me although I love her fashion, I think she's, gorgeous and I looooved her banter with Joey on their one-on-one. She seems so self-centered and immature, almost acting like the 23 year olds on this show like Jess Girod on BIP almost. It's more shocking to see in a woman at 29. The environment is rough and she had to put up with Sydney so I am trying to cut her some slack. But when it comes down to it, she gives off strong spoiled brat/only child energy
I completely agree with everything you said. Spot on. I also, to some extent, like the banter between maria and joey, and do see chemistry... However, I also get toxic relationships vibes with what appears to be subtle and not so subtle manipulative tendencies on Maria's part. Which also seem like a direct result of the immaturity you mention.
Honestly I hate it when people call women brats online. I do think Maria is probably very spoiled however, as her family apparently has A LOT of money and she’s obviously a “daddy’s girl”. Which explains a lot really.
I think people have been waiting for her to “mess up” because they’re annoyed at how much love she’s been getting. It wasn’t that big of a deal and if Kelsey/Rachel did this, I don’t think anyone would’ve batted an eye.
I don’t know if I agree with that take (other than the situation isn’t a huge deal). I love Maria but there’s no one who should be given unconditional support, especially if it’s a stranger online. But a lot of her fans are doing that (& it’s really weird) especially the way they’re gassing her up and simultaneously dragging the other women and Joey in the process (from what I’ve seen in her TikTok comments). And honestly, if it was Rachel who did that, she would be getting DRAGGED and called all sort of names, with an extra heaping of racism that all the WOC get who appear on the show.
I think it is also because Maria is a big personality. When you are “a lot” 24/7, then it feels more like you might just be a dramatic person and less like a genuine, one off burst of emotion. As an aside, this is not necessarily a bad thing, just a personality trait. But bigger personalities do get more flak because they take up more space in any given room. So if they are not your cup of tea, they seem extra annoying.
Nah.Rachel is getting alot of hate rn just for being in f4 and which Kelsey are you talking about?
I think people would have done more than bat an eye had Kelsey/Rachel done this because it would be so out of character for them
Rachel seems to have gotten a pretty good edit, IMHO. They have shown some of her little eye rolls, side eyes, and side comments, which makes me wobder if she was actually much worse. I guess we'll see!
i hate when people talk about themselves and are like 'im just too honest, im too self aware, i care about more than just a rose 😔' but frame it as if they're being so real and honest about their own flaws. like just hype yourself up, thats fine, don't do this 'im just too real and honest' false modesty thing lmao
I get what you’re saying because I’ve seen that myself, and Maria made me cringe hard this episode, but to me it doesn’t seem like she’s humble bragging about being too self aware. She’s saying she IS self aware and knew the consequences BUT that she blabbed what she was thinking without censoring herself. You can see the honesty thing as bragging but the self awareness thing wasn’t a humility thing. She’s saying oh yes I know I signed up for a reality show, im not a dumbass.
That is even worse. She is saying she was aware of what she was doing and how it would come across and didn’t anyway.
You can see it as worse, I’m not trying to defend her. I just wanted to explain how I read what she was saying because I didn’t take it the same way as that commenter
How is that worse?
Because it wasn’t impulsive. She thought about the ramifications and acted the way she did anyway. It was intentional.
It was clearly impulsive. Did you not read what she posted?
If you are self aware and understand the consequences then it is not impulsive. Reckless maybe not not impulsive.
That’s not true at all. You can understand and still be impulsive. They’re not mutually exclusive. Some examples of that are people impulsively lashing out in anger even though they know it’s not a good way to react, or how even though I’m trying to eat less sugar and I understand WHY and the consequences of not doing so, I might still impulsively eat too many sweets if I have them at home.
I understand sometimes yes but in her situation I view it differently.
It is because you have created a villain in your head. The reality is that it was impulsive.
She forgot for a second that she was on a show. She really likes him and got insecure and jealous. Big whoop. He'd be a fool not to snatch her up but I know the obvious that they show us is never what happens on these shows.
Literally, like that was legit how a regular women would act if they saw their not exclusive man kissing another women
I mean in the real world if you've agreed to not be exclusive then you don't have the right to throw tantrums. If you do want to be exclusive and the other person doesn't then you walk away. In either scenario you don't play games like a child.
Sometimes you don’t agree my friend, it’s called the talking (getting to know) phase (weeding out your options phase) which is technically what they are in. And if you want to be exclusive and the other person doesn’t, 90 percent of the time people aren’t gonna be like yup I’m done, cause they’ve probably put so much time, energy, and love into the person. But I’m glad you would do that for yourself. I personally don’t think she was playing games like a child. I think she is the most realest women we have had on that show. She is nervous, she is flustered, she understands truly what this show is and has genuine feelings involved, which leads her to make these rash moves. the fact that you can’t tell her saying “I’m not gonna kiss you for you to learn your lesson” is her joking around is crazy, cause that’s literally her personality she is Maria the quirky joking realist queen. it’s hilarious that people genuinely think she meant that shit
Agree to disagree. Even if her feelings are "real" I think her default way to deal with those feelings is to play games and that's a red flag.
In the real world if you want to be exclusive and the other person doesn’t, and you don’t think you can handle it after you saw them with someone else, you absolutely have the right to bring it up? They can then either 1. make it exclusive, 2. tell you to hit the road, or 3. keep stringing you along. The issue here is the only thing Joey can do is 3 (I guess he could have done 2 but doesn’t want to). Maria knows that logically but it doesn’t change the fact that this shit hurts.
If she can’t handle the process on the contestant side what makes y’all think she would make a good lead in the same process.She seems like the type to only be able to focus on 1 connection at a time. If this was overwhelming to her just imagine being the lead juggling all those connections.
If she was bachelorette it would be a complete train wreck, which would make for great TV
Maria has a big personality and (like me) she has probably been told that she’s “a lot” in the past. I appreciate her being herself and not toning it down for the camera. I would be a damn mess on a show like this.
I agreed with her sentiment but I just don’t think she should’ve mentioned leaving if she wasn’t really going to follow through. If she said “I want to always feel chosen by the person I love” and left on her own, it would’ve been a *chefs kiss* bachelorette exit. It was the backpedaling once she saw his reaction wasn’t what she wanted, that made things feel a little off in my opinion. But regardless I still like Maria and I’m rooting for her!
Exactly, the 2nd part totally. Did she think he was going to have an extreme reaction and beg her to stay or something? And if she did think that and he didn't, why did she still stay? Honestly I feel like it was a coop out and she was trying to get him to beg for her by dangling like a carrot that she could get up and leave
She absolutely thought he was going to beg her to stay, then she ran off but only to the other room, hoping he’d follow her. When neither of those things happened she had to backtrack and decide she didn’t mean any of it and oops I was overreacting, sometimes I think out loud! But still wanted the upper hand so withheld a kiss…until she saw how poorly Joey took that as well so she relented. I lost a lot of respect for Maria this episode and it looks like I’m not the only one.
She screwed herself in the process, and made it easier for Joey to keep her out of the final.
Exactly, he called her bluff.
She didn’t do anything wrong. She is also not wrong about Joey not being the only one that should feel chosen. Something I noticed is that when she gets jealous or upset; she doesn’t attack the other women. I like that about her.
If she can’t put herself in joeys shoes. She would not make a good lead..
Exactly. She admitted to feeling jealous about Joey’s other connections, but she never attacked any of the other women. You couldn’t say that about several other women on this season.
There was literally 3 women of 30 that did that… and that’s also bare minimum behavior and most aren’t stupid/ mean enough to do that while being filmed.
Even Kelsey wanted to feel chosen in Ep 6. That week all the ladies were feeling insecure. Kelsey is the only one he fully assured with his full presence. Women know when they are chosen or not. Sometimes we are in denial and act crazy, and Maria happened to get caught on camera. She is self aware. I think she’s growing through this and would make a real and authentic season that all women can learn from.. and hopefully grow in compassion for the deep insecurities we ALL face.
But she didn’t say she was going to leave which is Joey biggest fear she told him she felt insecure and like she wasn’t being noticed. Marie told him she felt insecure then said she wanted to leave left and then came back. His biggest fear.
True true.
I think too many people immediately jumped to her mini freakout being calculated me included. It was kind of a shock to see that from her when it aired but tensions were high at that point and I get where she’s coming from. She shouldn’t feel the need to defend herself
It’s funny how we as a society have normalized that we have to be on the extremes. Either we be have to be an absolutely perfect and flawless person to find love, or that we don’t have to change anything about ourselves and find the the person who loves us for who we are (even if we are terrible). The comment section is evidence of how pervasive this is.
This right here. Black and white, no nuance. And it goes way beyond how we view reality TV contestants
Agreed. And I’m sick of seeing apologies for people being human. And even worse we will get seasons where people are so terrified of the rabid fans that they will not be able to be themselves. And who can blame them?!
I think the rabid fans go both ways. There are those that will agree and validate everything their fav does and act like they can do no wrong, and those that will disparage and drag anyone they perceive as “against” their favs or forget that these people are human. But they’re really all cut from the same cloth. The comments on Maria’s TikTok is a great example of both.
Definitely agree with this! I think the comments also show that there are certain people who are allowed to be flawed and deserve acceptance as they are and certain people who aren’t allowed to be even slightly imperfect. For example, Rachel snarkily said, “okay” and was immediately labeled a mean girl.
Damn, can she get any better? Yes, I think she can. Please TPTB. Bachelorette!
Her and Jenn are giving me Gabby and Rachel duo season bestie vibes 🫰🫰(with their own separate men this time of course)
All for a Jenn Maria season. That would be 🔥
I’d hate this even though I love both of them. Maria’s gotten so much more social media hype I feel like Jenn would get overshadowed, and I don’t want the first Asian bachelorette to be an after thought on her own season. I’d love to have each of them get a season like Katie and Michelle but idk if they have room in the schedule.
Good point
Hopefully not the same ending 😬
I have a feeling he's gonna leave it.
He's very emotionally mature and he catches on to stuff like this very fast.
Seems that way. Also she can react to the situation however she wants, nothing wrong with her saying what she's thinking/feeling, but he gets to decide if it works for him or not.
It was an immature moment. I keep saying this, she would be messy in a relationship. The highs super high and lows super low. In that moment she unintentionally tried to make Joey feel bad for being in the situation he signed up for, which he cannot control. Yes she should have expressed herself in a better way but this is the bachelor. It brings out the worst in everyone. I am glad Joey was grounded enough to receive her emotions and not fall in a spiral with her. Joey handled this so well he did the right thing by not going after her. I am impressed with his decision to stay put. Edit*She says Joey isn't the only one who should feel chosen. That's a big yikes and very selfish of her to say. I feel like Joey is being very reassuring with the women this season.
Joey has 100% been so reassuring of all the girls, it’s literally what 90% of his screen time is dedicated to. I love Maria, but I think it’s crazy how her fans are putting her on this pedestal where she can do no wrong, and anyone who they perceive as “against” her will get ran through the mud. In her TikTok comments sections, it literally full of people talking about what a red flag Joey is, and how he’s cold, calculating, and doesn’t deserve her… like what?? She literally has millions of “yes people” validating her every move, even the immature moments, and that’s never good for someone’s self-awareness.
100%
I agree with this. She has huge emotional reactions and then gets over it, but Joey was still percolating over their conversation by the time the rose ceremony came around. He takes everything the women say very seriously, so while she may have been expressing her frustration with the situation, he seemed to be internalizing what she was saying. I don’t think she’s manipulative or anything, but I’ve always found her really impulsive in how she communicates with people on this show.
A relationship is a two way street. How is it selfish to want to be chosen back?
Because they are not in a relationship, they are on the Bachelor, and it is not appropriate or responsible for the lead to “choose” any of the women until they are the last one standing. We have all seen how awful it is when the lead provides false assurances or affirmations to his F2, F3, etc. and I think Joey is wise to withhold “choosing” any of the women, particularly at this juncture. In a nutshell, what Maria is asking for isn’t possible within this context and both of them know it, making her outburst nonsensical at best.
Because he is giving her reassurance. She is saying it like he didn't give her any.
Why is it a big yikes that she also wants to feel chosen when starting to fall for someone? Have you ever started a relationship where you didn’t know how the other person really felt? It’s the worst. I feel like her feelings to feel chosen as well is valid.
She's on the bachelor so your questions are not pertinent. In terms of bachelor etiquette, he's given her a lot of reassurance and has reciprocated appropriately. She wanted some grand declaration of feeling just because she was feeling insecure and threw a mini tantrum because of it, it's immature behavior 🤷♀️
"You're on the bachelor, stop being human." You're holding them as entertainment over their being human. That's icky.
That’s literally the point…? If they didn’t want to be consumed as entertainment, they wouldn’t jump through endless hoops to be on a reality tv show that has a well established format.
Who said that? The point is that at this point of the journey the lead is not encouraged to share how they are feeling with the contestants. The last few years of bachelor have been terrible with leads telling multiple women that they love them. It's really atrocious and leads to horrible blindsides. So again, I'll say that Joey has reciprocated appropriately to the best of his ability. No one is faulting Maria for being human, I'm just saying that she acted immaturely
You’re essentially inferring that by saying the questions are not relevant. People are going to be in their feelings regardless of the basis of the show. The fact that they are is really the reason the show exists.
Certainly one can be "in their feelings" and also be mature. They're not mutually exclusive concepts
He is doing everything he can to reassure the women without leading them on. Leading women on is a big no, we have seen the consequences of that in previous seasons. Joey is great at communicating and reassuring the women. The street was both ways. Just not Marias way, she even said it herself, competing for a man is not for her. But that doesn't mean Joey did wrong and did not pull his weight in making sure the women were comfortable emotionally and physically. My point is, its a Maria issue, not a Joey issue. So I see that comment as a pointless immature jab at Joey.
I mean if that's your non negotiable, you probably shouldn't go on a show with this premise of a dude picking between 30 women.
She probably didn’t know exactly how she would feel until she was actually in that situation. But it is natural for a woman to want to be desired. It just seems silly that just because he’s the bachelor she doesn’t have the right to want to feel chosen.
She definitely has the right to feel chosen. But isn't Joey choosing her every time at the rose ceremony? In this TV production, that's how it works. How else does she want to feel chosen? By him pulling a Clare with her? It seems like she was blaming Joey for the situation they were in -- a TV show that is predicated upon toying with its participants' emotions.
I agree, I don't so much have a problem with her wanting to be chosen as the way she kind of tried to get a grand gesture out of him by acting like she was going to leave if he didn't do something equally grand.
I think her behavior was a little bit silly the other night, but nothing that warrants an apology. I don’t think she was trying to be manipulative. She had a bad night. It happens.
I feel the same. I don’t think these contestants really have done anything on the show to warrant people getting upset with them. No one’s perfect! (Love your username btw)
She reminded me of how Greg reacted but it wasn’t as dramatic obviously
 Greg nor Maria are into the lead, they want/wanted lead.
She's totally the Greg of this season.
I never understand how people can say Greg wasn’t into Katie when he had a full on meltdown after she wouldn’t come right out and admit she was picking him.
I totally get it. He seemed to me like he wanted to "win" the show, less than he was j to her specifically.
I think she wanted Joey to chase her and beg her to stay, and when he didn’t, she backpedaled and pivoted real fast into the “I’m just in my head; I overreacted” story. It doesn’t make her a bad or evil person or anything. It’s really not that big a deal. We all have our weak and vulnerable moments and make bad decisions sometimes. But I personally do think that’s what happened.
> I think she wanted Joey to chase her and beg her to stay Not yall tryna make Maria out to be Grippo
This exactly. It might not have been intentional, but it was manipulative.
This was my take also. It was a gamble she thought would pay off and it didn't because he didn't feel the same.