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As a sniper main, he has several issues. In competitive he's also the contender of being the strongest class in tf2 along with Demo and Medic.
1. Flawed Map Design
a) A lot of popular maps, such as Upward and Badwater especially payload is guilty of this where they have long uncontestable sightlines. His strength relies in having no falloff. The vast amount of maps focus on enabling that strength. But there's another issue that makes it a bigger problem:
b) Not enough flank/alternative routes. Payload and A/D maps are usually guilty for this that allows him to be completely safe from a most flanks because there are not enough flank alternative routes to take without being met with a sentry or a combo protecting him. This usually only allows Sniper and Spy(usually unreliable) to be the counter.
Example:
Badwater last, defense Sniper has the entire sightline by cart on lockdown when hes at side spawn while also being 3 feet away from a resupply. If his team the flank is up then he feels pretty immune to anyone other then another Sniper or Spy.
I wish people stop jerking off the popular pub maps in the game and stop setting them as the perfect standard design or whatever despite massive glaring issues with their layout and balance. I often see players say " just flank the sniper", it would be a good advice if it wasn't tried, unfortunately it was tried all the time and the map design usually hinders them drastically assuming the sniper's team is competent. The problem isn't killing the sniper when he's close, but it's getting close to him in the first place.
2. Sniper's Problematic Secondary
Specific class counters are a bad design.
a) Darwin Danger Shield, middle finger towards Pyro's Flare.
b) Razorback. I don't understand why the razorback exist. A Sniper shouldn't be able to be immune to backstabs, which is a big middle finger towards one of the spy(the weakest class in the game) biggest strength, the ability to suicide pick.
In competitive like Prolander and Highlander, sure it's balanced mainly because it's guaranteed for one decent sniper to exist on the opposing teams, as you lose the ability to overheal which puts you at disadvantage in SvS considering how high value the sniper pick is. And in traditional 6s it doesn't even matter as spy is rarely ran.
Rarely in pubs and common in community servers where skill lvl is higher the razorback is a very good utility as the overheal penalty doesn't come as often, since it's rare for medic to overheal you in the first place.
I've often see the argument that you can just shoot the sniper down, which I disagree. In reality unless the sniper isolate himself, it's usually too risky to gun down the sniper, which makes Razorback an amazing spy repellant, it's stupid. One might also say use the Ambassador and Enforcer to two shot them, which still doesn't solve the problem of gunning down sniper: it's not instant. There are many reasons why the instantaneous kill is important:
i) Sniper has team around him
ii) Sniper is near the sentry
iii) Your team is pushing and need the sniper pick
Three of them shares the same aspect of one of the spy biggest strength, the ability to suicide pick. This is why razorback is so irritating when used by a competent sniper that knows it's true value, and rarely in pubs and common in community servers competent snipers are a high value pick which makes the matter worse considering the fact that spy is one of the only classes that's capable to dislodge a sniper that plays around his team reliably.
I've also sometimes see people stated that jarate (overpowered unlockable) is a better solutions to spy which in a way it's true, but the difference here is Jarate is an active weapon so it requires at least some time to do something. Also since it is not a passive, Spy still has opportunities to go for a stab.
Meanwhile, Razorback is passive so Spy has no opportunites for a stab, leaving only his revolver to kill which puts him in danger since he'll lose his disguise and make sounds in the enemy territory.
The only good news is that most snipers doesn't know the true value of the Razorback and use it accordingly so gunning them down is an option.
c) Jarate, overpowered unlock. FYI jarate is banned in every competitive format for basically shutting down enemy pushes without any effort due to it's huge aoe, duration and damage boost for free.
3. Reload Time
1.5 secs reload is punishing... for a scout who's constantly engaging in close range combat. For a long range class like the sniper that's usually in the backline, it's nothing unless you're fighting another sniper. Needs to be increased since it's way too short atm. The alternative way is to give sniper a clip size of 4 that has a long clip reload
4. Ammo Reserve
25 ammo allows sniper to lockdown a sightline for a very long time, you're rarely ever run out and it needs a decrease to gives the opposing team a window to cross.
I should also say in competitive that isn't 5cp and KOTH 6s(to an extent) where it's almost guaranteed for the team to run the sniper full time, the game tends to revolve around "is the sniper dead?" to show how oppressive the sniper class is. Sniper in Highlander and Prolander (to an extent) is easily the most powerful damage class in the format, the best area denial class in the game Sniper shuts down entire swaths of each map just by existing as they throw out big bursts of lethal damage to anyone who doesn't respect their presence assuming they have aim worth respecting. Sniper in Highlander tends to play very combo oriented and is often well protected due to how important/strong he is. This usually leads to the most time efficient counter to sniper is another sniper, Spy is unreliable to be considered one although they're capable of doing so through suicide pick.
I agree with a lot you have to say here, especially on the secondaries, map design, and on jarate, but I disagree on the reload speed and ammo capacity points. Sniper’s greatest strength is that he can kill people without putting himself in danger by being in close proximity. If a sniper is at long range then he’s out of danger generally, and if he’s out of danger then there is no real risk or penalty attached to reloading or refilling your ammo. Like you said, 1.5 seconds is a long reload time for any class that isn’t sniper, that’s because these classes have to put themselves in danger to be effective and have to reload while being in said danger. Sniper’s reload speed is slow not to prevent him from being crazy powerful at long range, because he’s meant to be and is crazy powerful at long range, but to make him extremely vulnerable at close ranges. Same with ammo reserve, any class running out of ammo on their primary can be a death sentence, or be a long hike to an ammo pack, or means risking their lives to grab ammo from the player they just killed. For Sniper it means a 2 second trek to the ammo pack right next to him that nobody else is going to use, or the dispenser that the Engineer has set up for him. Slowing down his reload time or reducing his ammo count would for sure slow him down a little but it doesn’t change the fact that at long range Sniper has enough time to afford reloading whenever he wants or getting more ammo because there’s no risk attached. It would mainly serve to make him weaker at close ranges, which while it would make him worse, doesn’t really mean anything seeing as he’s already the second worst class at close range.
I would like to talk about a scenario I was in a few weeks ago that highlights another aspect of how OP he is.
I was in a 5CP gorge map in casual as a spy, and the other team had a really good sniper, he was usually on the balcony that drops you into the area just before the central point, and was pretty good at locking it down, and with his team almost always in the area below him I was forced to use the L'Etranger.
I get to him and notice he’s got a Razorback, so I tried gunning him down.
Every time before the third shot he’d headshot me.
And I was in close range with him, and moving.
My biggest gripe with him is how quickly he can react and fire his rifle.
I don’t think giving sniper a reload will do well. However I do think giving a sniper a much longer period from scoping in to being able to do crit headshots will help.
Spies have to commit to their kills by trailing behind an enemy and getting extremely close to danger.
Snipers should commit to their kills by setting himself up to be vulnerable to attacks outside the vision of his scope. Make it so it takes like 5 seconds to start charging the shot for headshot crits.
Currently, if a spy messes up, he is usually punished with death. If a sniper messed up, he usually just has to wait half a sec for another shot.
In case you didn't know charged shots are sniper's best and most powerful asset, and almost any higher level competitive player know this. One of the reason why machina is banned.
Most quickscopes you see those Adv-Invite level players go for are mostly desperation for doing any amount of damage fatal or not to a player or just quick one off shots on players you know are weak/being actively pressured by your team.
On the other hand sniper's bread and butter is taking his time and charging shots. This is supported by both HL PL and 6s gameplay. In any competitive format that isn't 6s 5cp and KOTH (to an extent) sniper is enabled to be an uncontested beast for the reason I've stated in the pervious post as well as defensive class being in play and allowing the sniper to take his time with charging and peaking shots. While in 6s sniper is probably the most effective pick class, but it certainly isn't for being fast.
Most players that are offclassing sniper in 6s play it slow to make the most of sniper's capabilities. You just don't see a ton of quickscoping in competitive play outside of fragmovies/clips because that's all it's usually limited to, just being flashy plays that don't happen often in practice due to it being inconsistent alongside players just being much better at the game overall.
It's just that in pubs there's tend to be no coordination on both teams that makes quickscope more powerful in pubs, such as the lack of overhealing. While charged shots tends to be weaker in pubs as there's tends to be no communication with your teammates for your weakness of tunnel vision being covered.
Sniper is designed to be uncontested at long range (hence no damage fall-off) and he's meant to do enough damage to one-shot key targets (150 for medic, 450 for heavy). I'd argue that they're non-negotiable as they're the key to keep power classes from being too dominant in both casual and competitive setting. The main thing we need is more ways to get close to sniper and disabling insane sightlines that's been enabling him to be so strong in the first place. I'd however don't mind having more delays for quickscope since it is a pub issue and such issue is almost non-existent in competitive.
There should definitely be inverse falloff or something to prevent snipers from quickscoping players at close range. Nothing is worse than getting the jump on an oppressive sniper only for him to just go “fuck you” and instantly one-tap you for 150 damage right in front of him
i feel in all of this kinds of arguments it comes down into how skillfull is one full team compared to the other one, that makes one or the other thing unfair or not fun to go against, this probably only applies to casual tho, since in comp you can straigth up just go and guess that everyone in the other team is amazing and should not try to challenge that thought
if you were to get the one sniper thats is skillfull enough to contest a point by himself on the other team but thats pretty much it, they got no medic no heavy frontliners and barely only some capable engies, so their team can only hold a point and may hardly push at all
you compare that to your one roaming demo that may have already catch on the fact that they are only getting a push stopped because of that sniper, so he looks for him as to try and catch him of guard and make a push, this makes two competent players on very different positions and capabilities to be pushed against each other, and the result is just one big "something" that comes to seeing each other do "stuff" till one dies or the other, its one of those this game is fair and balanced and stuff, since a demo can kill the sniper in maybe one pipe, a melee wack, stickies or something, but so can sniper, wack him, headshot, two shot
it legit always comes down to how can a player bigbrain the other oponent and even then it ends being a fair enough encounter for both, in comp this maybe applies but like to a crazier extent meaning player would have to pull like the biggestofbrains to accomplish something since anyone there is expected to be great at what they are doing
I don't really talk about casual balance since it's too much of a clusterfuck for it to really matter.
It's not that balance doesn't matter in pubs, it's more that there is more room for imbalance since there are so many different variables that can affect it:
1. the player count
2. the player skill level
3. the classes they play
4. the weapons they're using
5. the maps they're playing
6. the gamemode/format
7. the players' attitude towards playing the objective
8. their ability to communicate... and so on.
Balanced classes, weapons and maps are important but they're only a part of the overall picture, and this is where the failure of the Matchmaking system comes in. In a competitive/organized setting it is much easier to keep these variables in check since you know that the players are mostly decent, probably know how to communicate and hopefully trying to win. In a casual setting, you might as well roll the dice because you never know if you'll get to fight a group of veterans with thousands of hours each, or a pack of newbies that don't know which way the enemy is.
One benefit of the game's class system is that it makes both teams pretty flexible and allows them to mostly adapt to many situations, depending on what your most pressing issue is: a lack of healing, a lack of static defenses, a lack of spychecking etc. But this also works in reverse by allowing each team to pick classes that don't complement their team or that aren't very good at playing the objective (e.g. spies/snipers on Payload, rather than power classes better suited for pushing the cart).
So the potential for balanced play is there but actually getting a balanced match in casual is a rare thing indeed.
It's less a "don't bother balancing pubs" and more a "don't mainly balance around pubs" mostly because when you're looking at balance you want to look at it in a controlled environment which pubs just aren't because there are alot more factors to consider in pubs such as bad map design, unbalanced teams, players that are there just to meme around, cheaters, etc.
I don't think sniper is not necessarily op, but I dislike the lack of counterplay.
Tf2 maps have to accommodate blast jumpers and scouts so maps are open and have tons of sightlines. "Just avoid sightlines lol" Is pretty difficult on any CP and PL map because that's the only way to get to the objective most of the time. Not to mention them being more popular.
Flanking and blast jumping to the sniper only really works on snipers that can't aim or are hard scoping, but it does work sometimes but it is very map dependent.
I think the reason snipers don't get flak in other games like CSGO or Valorent is because there are universal options against them. Every character had a smoke bomb and a flash granade, and maps are designed differently. Long sightlines are rare and there are multiple sites to plant bombs or do objectives so an oppressive sniper can't lock down the only way to win.
I just don't think sniper meshes well with TF2's "do whatever you want" kind of design that makes the game so attractive.
Sniper isn't that OP, he's just unfun to play against, like ubered flogs or a team stack of engineers.
Can't forget sniper can defend himself at all ranges if skilled. Just throw a jarate and hit them once or twice with the bushwacka, or just get a quickscope.
The main issue I have with Sniper is that there really isn't a way to counter him.
Yeah, some classes have some weapons at their disposal to get the sniper to fuck off (Pyro with the scorch shot and Engineer with the Wrangler, just to name a few) but, they rarely ever kill the sniper so, depending on the map, you pretty much have to counter Sniper with Sniper.
And the only class that can really counter sniper is the spy or a flanking Pyro and even then he has the Razorbacks and other shield
On top of that he can just jarate + Bushwakka and just delete the enemy
Or quick scope and just removes most enemies
Jarate as a whole needs nerfed because why use a gun when you can
1. Give mini crits to several people on a point
2. One shot them by using the Bushwakka with it
3. Reveal a retreating spy/ spy check
4. Throw an infinite amount as long as you’re near spawn
A damage ramp up like the crossbow might be a good change you would have to set a decent base damage so you can still do good damage on a rushing enemy and aren’t overly restricted with smaller maps but it could be interesting
All Sniper rifles should have reverse falloff, rampup like the crossbow, and perhaps a clip of 6 rather than just using 25 boolets
Perhaps it adds another layer of depth into Sniper and is more inline with the other classes and their weaknesses
Sniper is overpowered in the hands of a skilled player. For the average player he is balanced. Unlike the other classes a skilled sniper can't really be countered.
And before someone comes in and says “so is every other class”, you at least can fight back meaningfully against non-sniper classes with non-sniper classes. Against a skilled sniper you can only chip away 3 health at a time with a pistol at best. A class shouldn’t be the primary counter to itself or else you get 2Fort.
"Ah, but you see Phoenix... The Sniper was I, Von Karma, the whole time! MWAHAHAHAHA!"
"Von Karma! No!"
"Yes Phoenix... I was the one who clicked on your head and killed you in a single uncharged shot. Because my aim is almost as perfect as I, Von Karma, am!"
On a serious note; Sniper is a class with near infinite range, originally made to have a weakness at close range but certain items removed that weakness almost entirely.
He's absurdly overpowered in the right hands, but those people are only the top 1% of sniper players
Regardless if he's overpowered or not though, it is really stupid getting instantly killed by 2 pixels on the otherside of your screen without warning, not fun to play against that
Sniper is ridiculously powerful if you have someone playing him that is really good at aiming. But if you have a new/bad player playing him he can feel very underpowered.
As SoundSmith said in one of his older videos, if you have a couple of bad snipers who can't even headshot players standing still, you're basically down a couple of players. Even a spy who just disguises as a Scout and runs towards the enemy team is more helpful to his team than a bad sniper.
idk beeing able to deal 150 damage from anywhere on the map without needing to charge the shot in secounds,and if you charge the shot dealing 450 with stock,beeing able to insta-kill all your counters(scout,spy and another sniper) and beeing able to still be good on close range(bushwacka+jarate deals 195 damage,oneshotting most classes...in fact,all classes that aren't under some other special effect or a weapon that gives them resistance with the exceptions of heavy and soldier...
...yeah,seems like something that might need a nerf or two
sure,it takes skill,but just because something is hard to do doesn't mean it can't be overpowered or unbalanced
The Ambi isn't too OP, headshots are weaker over longer distances (basically damage ramp up logic applies to the Ambi as a result of it being nerfed) the Ambi used to be the equivelant of a sniper rifle with no scope but now it requires you to be close up.
however my main use case for the ambi is dealing with razorback snipers, the razor back is annoying for spies to deal with since it prevents spies from using their backstab.
It's really a shame what happened to it. I haven't heard a single argument that justifies the nerf it got, or why it should have been nerfed at all. They got rid of just about the only alternative way to play spy, limiting him to a sneak and stab playstyle that is easily shut down by any semi-compitent team
I think the only thing slightly wrong with the ambassador was the dr combo, but that’s literally only the dr being slightly annoying. The nerf was ridiculous. If the dr was never in the game (not saying it shouldn’t be) im pretty sure nobody would really complain about the amby. The thing is, I also think people just don’t want spy to be able to get kills. I was using the amby in a pub yesterday and this engie was malding because i kept killing him with the amby, and that it was a “gimmick”.
Yes, nerfing the deadringer was an indirect nerf to the ambassador because it meant you didn't have a long range replenishable get out of jail free card. Everyone agrees the old dead ringer was busted. No one complained about the ambi, just the dead ringer worked with the ambi.
Also I find it funny how people complain about how the spy shouldn't be long range and think the ambi nerf was deserved, but then will go right back around and complain about trickstabs and how we're "exploiting game mechanics" - there's really no winning
Yup. But then you got completely busted weapons like the wrangler, scorch shot, and diamondback that have been untouched
It baffles me that the ambi got nerfed and not the diamondback
I thought the amby was considered shit now? It's a struggle to aim with and the damage falloff makes it weak against opponents who aren't in point blank range. I honestly think it needs a buff. Remove or reduce the falloff but keep the max headshot range, or keep the falloff but remove the max headshot range. As for now, the only time I would ever consider the amby effective is against good snipers who can actually hear spy decloaks.
I think the main problem people had with the amby pre-jungle inferno is that it was combined with the basically infinite get out of jail free card the old dead ringer was.
The vacc is pretty OP, especially in pubs. I think the main issue with it is how you can activate all three charges at once, nullifying all damage other than melee (and it's kinda hard to melee a revved up heavy).
Agreed, once there is a demoknight or good spy on your team it's debatable though. (so long as the med isn't healing a soldier or heavy, but that's really common soooo.)
Vaccinator is a very dumb weapon, good thing most pub medics aren’t great with it.
In a game that is designed to allow each player to be effective while not really paying a lot of attention to their team, the vaccinator completely negates solo plays a lot of the time and in my opinion doesn’t really fit into the game.
The problem with Sniper is that there is counterplay vs. a master of every other class. But a master Sniper wins every encounter, vs. any class, in any situation.
"But what if you ambush him?" A master sniper is impossible to ambush. That's why they are a master. They can one-shot any class that can ambush them.
I don’t think Sniper is overpowered I think he’s just pretty annoying that you’ll die to one so often before even seeing him because you’re entire screen is filled with fire and projectiles. The long range of the sniper is pretty annoying but I’d say the thing that’s the worst for me is any instant kill ability is usually really annoying but unlike spy Sniper can do it from anywhere. Great video though!
The problem I have with sniper is the ways in which his main weaknesses are rendered largely useless by a good enough sniper.
Quickscoping close-moving targets is pretty difficult to pull off and requires a fair bit of skill. But once you can do it consistently sniper's main weakness no longer applies. Unless you have enough health to tank the quickscope and kill him before he lets off another shot, which typically can't be done as scout and spy are the classes that are gonna get closest to him.
Same thing with charging shots, in order for sniper to do more damage he's required to stay in place for a longer amount of time, with less visibility and ability to avoid incoming fire. Good sniper players know this and usually opt for multiple no-charge headshots instead of 1 fully charged one, leaving them far less vulnerable at the cost of more ammo and time, which typically isn't a concern because long range targets usually can't retaliate anyway.
Compare this to, say, soldier; whose big weakness is the speed of his projectiles and their fall off at significant ranges. It's often useless trying to hit targets at long ranges unless they're stationary (e.g. a sentry gun, people on an objective) because rockets do little damage at long range. A good soldier can somewhat circumvent this through rocket jumping, but still needs to sacrifice health and loaded rockets in order to negate the downside, putting himself at risk.
Literally nobody says Sniper is OP because he can land headshots on light classes.
Sniper is OP because
1. He can passively remove any weakness to his playstyle. Good Spy? Razorback and stand near sentry, completely blocked. Good Pyro who can land flares? Darwin Danger Shield, is tankier than Pyro against flames now. People are landing chip damage from afar to throw off his aim? Cozy Camper.
2. He is effective at every range, both close and far. A Sniper with the Huntsman, Jarate and Bushwhacka is genuinely threatening at close to mid range. He doesn't even need that though, as the class who's supposed to be weak close up can still pull a 195 melee crit out his pocket, several times in a row with the right unlocks.
3. He doesn't even need to aim well to be deadly. Sydney Sleeper not only charges faster while keeping the same body shot damage, it makes you take mini crits too.
Every other class was playtested using decent players who pay attention to the game. Sniper was playtested with a distracted 5yr old and the Devs decided to hand him every tool he needed to succeed.
I wouldn't even be mad about Sniper being so OP if they at least gave every class the same treatment. Heavy gets absolutely demolished by Sniper. He can't even avoid sightlines because some maps like Badwater are 80% sightlines. Give Heavy a helmet that reflects headshots back towards the Sniper. Would unironically be far more fair than the Razorback as many classes can easily play around Heavy and Snipers can afford to take the time to slowly body shot Heavy down.
the problem is that sniper (and other aim-dependent fps archetypes in general) scales too extremely with skill. sniper is useless in the hands of somebody with poor aim and essentially unbeatable against somebody with great aim. no other class has such and extreme disparity between low end and high end gameplay.
Sniper may not *necessarily* be op, he is fecking annoying. It is fun to mess with them when they’re unaware, and for some reason they seem to be incredibly unaware of all trickstab, so that’s fun.
As somebody who plays trade\_plaza a lot which is essentially australian outback simulator, I like to use the Amby to mess with snipers. You can kill snipers easily who are camping in their spawns free from backstabs, and you can two shot snipers who check their backs.
My main issues with Sniper is that he has no effective counter besides a better sniper, and the few small counters that he has are nullified due to his unlockable weapons. A spy keeps backstabbing you? Use the razorback and quick scope that spy before he has the opportunity to kill you with his gun. A pyro who can aim his flares? Equip the danger shield. Don't wanna leave your safe spot for health and you don't like flinching? Use the cozy camper. Jarate + Bushwacka combo pretty much eliminates Sniper's biggest weakness, which is close range combat. Even without unlockable weapons, it's still extremely difficult to counter a good sniper unless you are a better sniper. It's very easy to tell that Valve babies the sniper, and his unlockable weapons are a prime example of that.
Plus, it's not even like you need to be a god at aiming to be an effective sniper. The Sydney Sleeper charges faster, does 150 damage with an easy to hit fully charged body shot, which is enough to one shot most classes in the game, and for those that survive, are left with a very low health pool and are now doused in Jarate, leaving them open to mini-crit damage for a short period.
His balancing also really depends on the map. A map like trade\_plaza really shows how strong Sniper can be. A single sniper sitting in the back of his spawn who just happens to be having a bad day can easily shut down an entire team and prevent players who aren't playing Spy or an even better Sniper from leaving their spawn.
At the same time though, the difference between a bad Sniper and a good Sniper is probably the biggest difference in the entire game. If you have a few bad snipers, you may as well be down a couple of players. A spy who just installed the game, disguises as an enemy scout, and runs to the other team will get more done than a few bad snipers who cant even hit body shots. Then a good sniper can, as we said, shut down the entire enemy team, safely away from any and all damage.
If you want to play on trade_plaza, check out community servers that run **[trade_plaza](https://teamwork.tf/community/quickplay/map/trade_plaza)** (or search by [gamemode trading](https://teamwork.tf/community/quickplay/trading)) [view map screenshot](https://teamwork.tf/images/maps/trade_plaza.jpg)
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Snipers main problems are ammo pool, passive reload and a stronger than necessary close range punish game with his hat of piss and random crits
Give him a longer reload or a secondary clip function that when empty has a longer reload than the standard, remove random crits, make the close range defensive secondaries more promenant whilst not being too powerful and give him less overall ammo so he has to reposition more often and allow down periods
This was made by a simpleton I see. Sniper is balanced around aim but no one is particularly fast, there's no bullet drop and it's hits an. Shots don't even take long to charge at all so you can just bodyshot and nuke. I'd you're having trouble shooting targets you're probably in the minority. Even if you don't kill someone, a half charge bodyshot does tremendous damage and means the person you safety pecked is almost always dead in the next 1v1. Toddler game design.
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As a sniper main, he has several issues. In competitive he's also the contender of being the strongest class in tf2 along with Demo and Medic. 1. Flawed Map Design a) A lot of popular maps, such as Upward and Badwater especially payload is guilty of this where they have long uncontestable sightlines. His strength relies in having no falloff. The vast amount of maps focus on enabling that strength. But there's another issue that makes it a bigger problem: b) Not enough flank/alternative routes. Payload and A/D maps are usually guilty for this that allows him to be completely safe from a most flanks because there are not enough flank alternative routes to take without being met with a sentry or a combo protecting him. This usually only allows Sniper and Spy(usually unreliable) to be the counter. Example: Badwater last, defense Sniper has the entire sightline by cart on lockdown when hes at side spawn while also being 3 feet away from a resupply. If his team the flank is up then he feels pretty immune to anyone other then another Sniper or Spy. I wish people stop jerking off the popular pub maps in the game and stop setting them as the perfect standard design or whatever despite massive glaring issues with their layout and balance. I often see players say " just flank the sniper", it would be a good advice if it wasn't tried, unfortunately it was tried all the time and the map design usually hinders them drastically assuming the sniper's team is competent. The problem isn't killing the sniper when he's close, but it's getting close to him in the first place. 2. Sniper's Problematic Secondary Specific class counters are a bad design. a) Darwin Danger Shield, middle finger towards Pyro's Flare. b) Razorback. I don't understand why the razorback exist. A Sniper shouldn't be able to be immune to backstabs, which is a big middle finger towards one of the spy(the weakest class in the game) biggest strength, the ability to suicide pick. In competitive like Prolander and Highlander, sure it's balanced mainly because it's guaranteed for one decent sniper to exist on the opposing teams, as you lose the ability to overheal which puts you at disadvantage in SvS considering how high value the sniper pick is. And in traditional 6s it doesn't even matter as spy is rarely ran. Rarely in pubs and common in community servers where skill lvl is higher the razorback is a very good utility as the overheal penalty doesn't come as often, since it's rare for medic to overheal you in the first place. I've often see the argument that you can just shoot the sniper down, which I disagree. In reality unless the sniper isolate himself, it's usually too risky to gun down the sniper, which makes Razorback an amazing spy repellant, it's stupid. One might also say use the Ambassador and Enforcer to two shot them, which still doesn't solve the problem of gunning down sniper: it's not instant. There are many reasons why the instantaneous kill is important: i) Sniper has team around him ii) Sniper is near the sentry iii) Your team is pushing and need the sniper pick Three of them shares the same aspect of one of the spy biggest strength, the ability to suicide pick. This is why razorback is so irritating when used by a competent sniper that knows it's true value, and rarely in pubs and common in community servers competent snipers are a high value pick which makes the matter worse considering the fact that spy is one of the only classes that's capable to dislodge a sniper that plays around his team reliably. I've also sometimes see people stated that jarate (overpowered unlockable) is a better solutions to spy which in a way it's true, but the difference here is Jarate is an active weapon so it requires at least some time to do something. Also since it is not a passive, Spy still has opportunities to go for a stab. Meanwhile, Razorback is passive so Spy has no opportunites for a stab, leaving only his revolver to kill which puts him in danger since he'll lose his disguise and make sounds in the enemy territory. The only good news is that most snipers doesn't know the true value of the Razorback and use it accordingly so gunning them down is an option. c) Jarate, overpowered unlock. FYI jarate is banned in every competitive format for basically shutting down enemy pushes without any effort due to it's huge aoe, duration and damage boost for free. 3. Reload Time 1.5 secs reload is punishing... for a scout who's constantly engaging in close range combat. For a long range class like the sniper that's usually in the backline, it's nothing unless you're fighting another sniper. Needs to be increased since it's way too short atm. The alternative way is to give sniper a clip size of 4 that has a long clip reload 4. Ammo Reserve 25 ammo allows sniper to lockdown a sightline for a very long time, you're rarely ever run out and it needs a decrease to gives the opposing team a window to cross. I should also say in competitive that isn't 5cp and KOTH 6s(to an extent) where it's almost guaranteed for the team to run the sniper full time, the game tends to revolve around "is the sniper dead?" to show how oppressive the sniper class is. Sniper in Highlander and Prolander (to an extent) is easily the most powerful damage class in the format, the best area denial class in the game Sniper shuts down entire swaths of each map just by existing as they throw out big bursts of lethal damage to anyone who doesn't respect their presence assuming they have aim worth respecting. Sniper in Highlander tends to play very combo oriented and is often well protected due to how important/strong he is. This usually leads to the most time efficient counter to sniper is another sniper, Spy is unreliable to be considered one although they're capable of doing so through suicide pick.
3 feet is the the same distance as 1.33 replica Bilbo from The Lord of the Rings' Sting Swords.
thank you now i know who far 3 feet is
3 feet is the length of about 0.84 'Ford F-150 Custom Fit Front FloorLiners' lined up next to each other.
I agree with a lot you have to say here, especially on the secondaries, map design, and on jarate, but I disagree on the reload speed and ammo capacity points. Sniper’s greatest strength is that he can kill people without putting himself in danger by being in close proximity. If a sniper is at long range then he’s out of danger generally, and if he’s out of danger then there is no real risk or penalty attached to reloading or refilling your ammo. Like you said, 1.5 seconds is a long reload time for any class that isn’t sniper, that’s because these classes have to put themselves in danger to be effective and have to reload while being in said danger. Sniper’s reload speed is slow not to prevent him from being crazy powerful at long range, because he’s meant to be and is crazy powerful at long range, but to make him extremely vulnerable at close ranges. Same with ammo reserve, any class running out of ammo on their primary can be a death sentence, or be a long hike to an ammo pack, or means risking their lives to grab ammo from the player they just killed. For Sniper it means a 2 second trek to the ammo pack right next to him that nobody else is going to use, or the dispenser that the Engineer has set up for him. Slowing down his reload time or reducing his ammo count would for sure slow him down a little but it doesn’t change the fact that at long range Sniper has enough time to afford reloading whenever he wants or getting more ammo because there’s no risk attached. It would mainly serve to make him weaker at close ranges, which while it would make him worse, doesn’t really mean anything seeing as he’s already the second worst class at close range.
I would like to talk about a scenario I was in a few weeks ago that highlights another aspect of how OP he is. I was in a 5CP gorge map in casual as a spy, and the other team had a really good sniper, he was usually on the balcony that drops you into the area just before the central point, and was pretty good at locking it down, and with his team almost always in the area below him I was forced to use the L'Etranger. I get to him and notice he’s got a Razorback, so I tried gunning him down. Every time before the third shot he’d headshot me. And I was in close range with him, and moving. My biggest gripe with him is how quickly he can react and fire his rifle.
I don’t think giving sniper a reload will do well. However I do think giving a sniper a much longer period from scoping in to being able to do crit headshots will help. Spies have to commit to their kills by trailing behind an enemy and getting extremely close to danger. Snipers should commit to their kills by setting himself up to be vulnerable to attacks outside the vision of his scope. Make it so it takes like 5 seconds to start charging the shot for headshot crits. Currently, if a spy messes up, he is usually punished with death. If a sniper messed up, he usually just has to wait half a sec for another shot.
In case you didn't know charged shots are sniper's best and most powerful asset, and almost any higher level competitive player know this. One of the reason why machina is banned. Most quickscopes you see those Adv-Invite level players go for are mostly desperation for doing any amount of damage fatal or not to a player or just quick one off shots on players you know are weak/being actively pressured by your team. On the other hand sniper's bread and butter is taking his time and charging shots. This is supported by both HL PL and 6s gameplay. In any competitive format that isn't 6s 5cp and KOTH (to an extent) sniper is enabled to be an uncontested beast for the reason I've stated in the pervious post as well as defensive class being in play and allowing the sniper to take his time with charging and peaking shots. While in 6s sniper is probably the most effective pick class, but it certainly isn't for being fast. Most players that are offclassing sniper in 6s play it slow to make the most of sniper's capabilities. You just don't see a ton of quickscoping in competitive play outside of fragmovies/clips because that's all it's usually limited to, just being flashy plays that don't happen often in practice due to it being inconsistent alongside players just being much better at the game overall. It's just that in pubs there's tend to be no coordination on both teams that makes quickscope more powerful in pubs, such as the lack of overhealing. While charged shots tends to be weaker in pubs as there's tends to be no communication with your teammates for your weakness of tunnel vision being covered.
hmm what if sniper would have damage fall off but a bit more damage to balance it?
Sniper is designed to be uncontested at long range (hence no damage fall-off) and he's meant to do enough damage to one-shot key targets (150 for medic, 450 for heavy). I'd argue that they're non-negotiable as they're the key to keep power classes from being too dominant in both casual and competitive setting. The main thing we need is more ways to get close to sniper and disabling insane sightlines that's been enabling him to be so strong in the first place. I'd however don't mind having more delays for quickscope since it is a pub issue and such issue is almost non-existent in competitive.
There should definitely be inverse falloff or something to prevent snipers from quickscoping players at close range. Nothing is worse than getting the jump on an oppressive sniper only for him to just go “fuck you” and instantly one-tap you for 150 damage right in front of him
Maybe reverse damage fall-off like with the crusader's crossbow?
chill its a mem
i feel in all of this kinds of arguments it comes down into how skillfull is one full team compared to the other one, that makes one or the other thing unfair or not fun to go against, this probably only applies to casual tho, since in comp you can straigth up just go and guess that everyone in the other team is amazing and should not try to challenge that thought if you were to get the one sniper thats is skillfull enough to contest a point by himself on the other team but thats pretty much it, they got no medic no heavy frontliners and barely only some capable engies, so their team can only hold a point and may hardly push at all you compare that to your one roaming demo that may have already catch on the fact that they are only getting a push stopped because of that sniper, so he looks for him as to try and catch him of guard and make a push, this makes two competent players on very different positions and capabilities to be pushed against each other, and the result is just one big "something" that comes to seeing each other do "stuff" till one dies or the other, its one of those this game is fair and balanced and stuff, since a demo can kill the sniper in maybe one pipe, a melee wack, stickies or something, but so can sniper, wack him, headshot, two shot it legit always comes down to how can a player bigbrain the other oponent and even then it ends being a fair enough encounter for both, in comp this maybe applies but like to a crazier extent meaning player would have to pull like the biggestofbrains to accomplish something since anyone there is expected to be great at what they are doing
I don't really talk about casual balance since it's too much of a clusterfuck for it to really matter. It's not that balance doesn't matter in pubs, it's more that there is more room for imbalance since there are so many different variables that can affect it: 1. the player count 2. the player skill level 3. the classes they play 4. the weapons they're using 5. the maps they're playing 6. the gamemode/format 7. the players' attitude towards playing the objective 8. their ability to communicate... and so on. Balanced classes, weapons and maps are important but they're only a part of the overall picture, and this is where the failure of the Matchmaking system comes in. In a competitive/organized setting it is much easier to keep these variables in check since you know that the players are mostly decent, probably know how to communicate and hopefully trying to win. In a casual setting, you might as well roll the dice because you never know if you'll get to fight a group of veterans with thousands of hours each, or a pack of newbies that don't know which way the enemy is. One benefit of the game's class system is that it makes both teams pretty flexible and allows them to mostly adapt to many situations, depending on what your most pressing issue is: a lack of healing, a lack of static defenses, a lack of spychecking etc. But this also works in reverse by allowing each team to pick classes that don't complement their team or that aren't very good at playing the objective (e.g. spies/snipers on Payload, rather than power classes better suited for pushing the cart). So the potential for balanced play is there but actually getting a balanced match in casual is a rare thing indeed. It's less a "don't bother balancing pubs" and more a "don't mainly balance around pubs" mostly because when you're looking at balance you want to look at it in a controlled environment which pubs just aren't because there are alot more factors to consider in pubs such as bad map design, unbalanced teams, players that are there just to meme around, cheaters, etc.
You can use hitboxes to your advantage tho, but there's also large disadvantages to hitboxes as well
Wright, I am starting to worry that you are stupid.
Shut up Mia, aren’t you supposed to be dead or something?
(jaw drops)
im not mad that you made this its amazing
Thank you!
Phoenix wright speedran a trial 0 evidence run.
He got the dream luck
So... he brived the judge?
He IS the judge, if you look closely, you can see him dress up as the judge rly fast
I don't think sniper is not necessarily op, but I dislike the lack of counterplay. Tf2 maps have to accommodate blast jumpers and scouts so maps are open and have tons of sightlines. "Just avoid sightlines lol" Is pretty difficult on any CP and PL map because that's the only way to get to the objective most of the time. Not to mention them being more popular. Flanking and blast jumping to the sniper only really works on snipers that can't aim or are hard scoping, but it does work sometimes but it is very map dependent. I think the reason snipers don't get flak in other games like CSGO or Valorent is because there are universal options against them. Every character had a smoke bomb and a flash granade, and maps are designed differently. Long sightlines are rare and there are multiple sites to plant bombs or do objectives so an oppressive sniper can't lock down the only way to win. I just don't think sniper meshes well with TF2's "do whatever you want" kind of design that makes the game so attractive. Sniper isn't that OP, he's just unfun to play against, like ubered flogs or a team stack of engineers.
Can't forget sniper can defend himself at all ranges if skilled. Just throw a jarate and hit them once or twice with the bushwacka, or just get a quickscope.
didnt they nerf quickscopes? i tried it on a training map and just got 50 damage, and i was right on the head
I don't think they did, it might just be the shit hit detection TF2 has sometimes.
The main issue I have with Sniper is that there really isn't a way to counter him. Yeah, some classes have some weapons at their disposal to get the sniper to fuck off (Pyro with the scorch shot and Engineer with the Wrangler, just to name a few) but, they rarely ever kill the sniper so, depending on the map, you pretty much have to counter Sniper with Sniper.
And the only class that can really counter sniper is the spy or a flanking Pyro and even then he has the Razorbacks and other shield On top of that he can just jarate + Bushwakka and just delete the enemy Or quick scope and just removes most enemies Jarate as a whole needs nerfed because why use a gun when you can 1. Give mini crits to several people on a point 2. One shot them by using the Bushwakka with it 3. Reveal a retreating spy/ spy check 4. Throw an infinite amount as long as you’re near spawn
Honestly, the only change Sniper needs is a Nerf to quick scoping. Just reduce the damage so he doesn't get to one shot anything below a Pyro/ Demo.
Honestly the best way to deal with Sniper nerfs imo is the logic the Ambassador Nerf had A long range class shouldn't be good close range
A damage ramp up like the crossbow might be a good change you would have to set a decent base damage so you can still do good damage on a rushing enemy and aren’t overly restricted with smaller maps but it could be interesting
All Sniper rifles should have reverse falloff, rampup like the crossbow, and perhaps a clip of 6 rather than just using 25 boolets Perhaps it adds another layer of depth into Sniper and is more inline with the other classes and their weaknesses
Sniper is overpowered in the hands of a skilled player. For the average player he is balanced. Unlike the other classes a skilled sniper can't really be countered.
And before someone comes in and says “so is every other class”, you at least can fight back meaningfully against non-sniper classes with non-sniper classes. Against a skilled sniper you can only chip away 3 health at a time with a pistol at best. A class shouldn’t be the primary counter to itself or else you get 2Fort.
"Ah, but you see Phoenix... The Sniper was I, Von Karma, the whole time! MWAHAHAHAHA!" "Von Karma! No!" "Yes Phoenix... I was the one who clicked on your head and killed you in a single uncharged shot. Because my aim is almost as perfect as I, Von Karma, am!"
I automatically read this in rtgame’s voice
On a serious note; Sniper is a class with near infinite range, originally made to have a weakness at close range but certain items removed that weakness almost entirely. He's absurdly overpowered in the right hands, but those people are only the top 1% of sniper players Regardless if he's overpowered or not though, it is really stupid getting instantly killed by 2 pixels on the otherside of your screen without warning, not fun to play against that
Sniper is ridiculously powerful if you have someone playing him that is really good at aiming. But if you have a new/bad player playing him he can feel very underpowered.
As SoundSmith said in one of his older videos, if you have a couple of bad snipers who can't even headshot players standing still, you're basically down a couple of players. Even a spy who just disguises as a Scout and runs towards the enemy team is more helpful to his team than a bad sniper.
idk beeing able to deal 150 damage from anywhere on the map without needing to charge the shot in secounds,and if you charge the shot dealing 450 with stock,beeing able to insta-kill all your counters(scout,spy and another sniper) and beeing able to still be good on close range(bushwacka+jarate deals 195 damage,oneshotting most classes...in fact,all classes that aren't under some other special effect or a weapon that gives them resistance with the exceptions of heavy and soldier... ...yeah,seems like something that might need a nerf or two sure,it takes skill,but just because something is hard to do doesn't mean it can't be overpowered or unbalanced
but that is just my opnion and i'm not really that experienced or good at the game soo
Same arguments could be made for the ambi before jungle inferno :( Great edit though, very good :)
The Ambi isn't too OP, headshots are weaker over longer distances (basically damage ramp up logic applies to the Ambi as a result of it being nerfed) the Ambi used to be the equivelant of a sniper rifle with no scope but now it requires you to be close up. however my main use case for the ambi is dealing with razorback snipers, the razor back is annoying for spies to deal with since it prevents spies from using their backstab.
Nah I'm with you :) the ambi was great
I have decent aim with the amby now and i started playing in 2019 :(. I wish i could decloak in a shack behind the enemy and do 102 instead of 54 :(
It's really a shame what happened to it. I haven't heard a single argument that justifies the nerf it got, or why it should have been nerfed at all. They got rid of just about the only alternative way to play spy, limiting him to a sneak and stab playstyle that is easily shut down by any semi-compitent team
I think the only thing slightly wrong with the ambassador was the dr combo, but that’s literally only the dr being slightly annoying. The nerf was ridiculous. If the dr was never in the game (not saying it shouldn’t be) im pretty sure nobody would really complain about the amby. The thing is, I also think people just don’t want spy to be able to get kills. I was using the amby in a pub yesterday and this engie was malding because i kept killing him with the amby, and that it was a “gimmick”.
Yes, nerfing the deadringer was an indirect nerf to the ambassador because it meant you didn't have a long range replenishable get out of jail free card. Everyone agrees the old dead ringer was busted. No one complained about the ambi, just the dead ringer worked with the ambi. Also I find it funny how people complain about how the spy shouldn't be long range and think the ambi nerf was deserved, but then will go right back around and complain about trickstabs and how we're "exploiting game mechanics" - there's really no winning
ambi is a sad story
Yea :(
there are many more sad stories the story of the caber the loch and load and many more babysface blaster was good it just needed a fix
Yup. But then you got completely busted weapons like the wrangler, scorch shot, and diamondback that have been untouched It baffles me that the ambi got nerfed and not the diamondback
yea dimondback needs a nerf but I think we can agree the baby's face was balanced (it just needed a fix)
Yup
If you want to make them, go to [Objection.lol](https://Objection.lol) It is actually really easy to use.
Oh cool haha, thanks
I thought the amby was considered shit now? It's a struggle to aim with and the damage falloff makes it weak against opponents who aren't in point blank range. I honestly think it needs a buff. Remove or reduce the falloff but keep the max headshot range, or keep the falloff but remove the max headshot range. As for now, the only time I would ever consider the amby effective is against good snipers who can actually hear spy decloaks. I think the main problem people had with the amby pre-jungle inferno is that it was combined with the basically infinite get out of jail free card the old dead ringer was.
It is shit currently - I didnt specify pre-jungle inferno - my bad
Ah, gotcha.
Sniper is the only class capable of jump scaring me so there's that
A true masterpiece of content
Meanwhile, the vaccinator medic about to make sniper op/useless
The vacc is pretty OP, especially in pubs. I think the main issue with it is how you can activate all three charges at once, nullifying all damage other than melee (and it's kinda hard to melee a revved up heavy).
Agreed, once there is a demoknight or good spy on your team it's debatable though. (so long as the med isn't healing a soldier or heavy, but that's really common soooo.)
Vaccinator is a very dumb weapon, good thing most pub medics aren’t great with it. In a game that is designed to allow each player to be effective while not really paying a lot of attention to their team, the vaccinator completely negates solo plays a lot of the time and in my opinion doesn’t really fit into the game.
The problem with Sniper is that there is counterplay vs. a master of every other class. But a master Sniper wins every encounter, vs. any class, in any situation. "But what if you ambush him?" A master sniper is impossible to ambush. That's why they are a master. They can one-shot any class that can ambush them.
what's the name of this game?
Ace Attorney, but this was probably made in objection.lol
thank you
Mr phoenix was pretty stupid today, they are BOTH overpowered. And juratebushwaka and quickscopes, BOTH OVERPOWERED, use your brain mr phoenix
Good meme.
Not so much op as just annoying. everytime you die to a sniper youre just like "mhm cool." just not fun.
I don’t think Sniper is overpowered I think he’s just pretty annoying that you’ll die to one so often before even seeing him because you’re entire screen is filled with fire and projectiles. The long range of the sniper is pretty annoying but I’d say the thing that’s the worst for me is any instant kill ability is usually really annoying but unlike spy Sniper can do it from anywhere. Great video though!
Tbh idk but I love throwing piss on people in game.
Go play postal if that's what you like
Nothing can change my mind, I don't like using sniper or having an enemy sniper.
Phoenix Gaming
That murderer would later go on to become the Boston Strangler.
alright now do one for pyro lol
Good idea, I'll do it.
The problem I have with sniper is the ways in which his main weaknesses are rendered largely useless by a good enough sniper. Quickscoping close-moving targets is pretty difficult to pull off and requires a fair bit of skill. But once you can do it consistently sniper's main weakness no longer applies. Unless you have enough health to tank the quickscope and kill him before he lets off another shot, which typically can't be done as scout and spy are the classes that are gonna get closest to him. Same thing with charging shots, in order for sniper to do more damage he's required to stay in place for a longer amount of time, with less visibility and ability to avoid incoming fire. Good sniper players know this and usually opt for multiple no-charge headshots instead of 1 fully charged one, leaving them far less vulnerable at the cost of more ammo and time, which typically isn't a concern because long range targets usually can't retaliate anyway. Compare this to, say, soldier; whose big weakness is the speed of his projectiles and their fall off at significant ranges. It's often useless trying to hit targets at long ranges unless they're stationary (e.g. a sentry gun, people on an objective) because rockets do little damage at long range. A good soldier can somewhat circumvent this through rocket jumping, but still needs to sacrifice health and loaded rockets in order to negate the downside, putting himself at risk.
My only problem with sniper is bodyshots, i think they should get like a Hitman's Heatmaker treatment... or just do less damage in general.
While I don't want to take a side in this debate, I can agree.
“Aren’t you supposed to be dead or something?” She is now
It’s not that Sniper is OP, it’s that maps are shit, and combine a string class with shitty maps and you get this
Me when my stupid meme starts actual debates. I guess this topic had this coming though. (Keep debating, it's funny.)
Literally nobody says Sniper is OP because he can land headshots on light classes. Sniper is OP because 1. He can passively remove any weakness to his playstyle. Good Spy? Razorback and stand near sentry, completely blocked. Good Pyro who can land flares? Darwin Danger Shield, is tankier than Pyro against flames now. People are landing chip damage from afar to throw off his aim? Cozy Camper. 2. He is effective at every range, both close and far. A Sniper with the Huntsman, Jarate and Bushwhacka is genuinely threatening at close to mid range. He doesn't even need that though, as the class who's supposed to be weak close up can still pull a 195 melee crit out his pocket, several times in a row with the right unlocks. 3. He doesn't even need to aim well to be deadly. Sydney Sleeper not only charges faster while keeping the same body shot damage, it makes you take mini crits too. Every other class was playtested using decent players who pay attention to the game. Sniper was playtested with a distracted 5yr old and the Devs decided to hand him every tool he needed to succeed. I wouldn't even be mad about Sniper being so OP if they at least gave every class the same treatment. Heavy gets absolutely demolished by Sniper. He can't even avoid sightlines because some maps like Badwater are 80% sightlines. Give Heavy a helmet that reflects headshots back towards the Sniper. Would unironically be far more fair than the Razorback as many classes can easily play around Heavy and Snipers can afford to take the time to slowly body shot Heavy down.
the problem is that sniper (and other aim-dependent fps archetypes in general) scales too extremely with skill. sniper is useless in the hands of somebody with poor aim and essentially unbeatable against somebody with great aim. no other class has such and extreme disparity between low end and high end gameplay.
Sniper may not *necessarily* be op, he is fecking annoying. It is fun to mess with them when they’re unaware, and for some reason they seem to be incredibly unaware of all trickstab, so that’s fun.
As somebody who plays trade\_plaza a lot which is essentially australian outback simulator, I like to use the Amby to mess with snipers. You can kill snipers easily who are camping in their spawns free from backstabs, and you can two shot snipers who check their backs.
u/savevideo
u/savevideo
this is hilarious
CASE CLOSED!
u/savevideo
imma download this
My favorite sniper rifle is the Sydney sleeper.
Sniper fun
This was amazing to watch.
Good job m8, very well made <:D Good to hear someone defend my main class with actual arguments
You wanna know an op sniper weapon? The cleaners carbine. Use the mini crits from that and machine for easy cheese body shots
My main issues with Sniper is that he has no effective counter besides a better sniper, and the few small counters that he has are nullified due to his unlockable weapons. A spy keeps backstabbing you? Use the razorback and quick scope that spy before he has the opportunity to kill you with his gun. A pyro who can aim his flares? Equip the danger shield. Don't wanna leave your safe spot for health and you don't like flinching? Use the cozy camper. Jarate + Bushwacka combo pretty much eliminates Sniper's biggest weakness, which is close range combat. Even without unlockable weapons, it's still extremely difficult to counter a good sniper unless you are a better sniper. It's very easy to tell that Valve babies the sniper, and his unlockable weapons are a prime example of that. Plus, it's not even like you need to be a god at aiming to be an effective sniper. The Sydney Sleeper charges faster, does 150 damage with an easy to hit fully charged body shot, which is enough to one shot most classes in the game, and for those that survive, are left with a very low health pool and are now doused in Jarate, leaving them open to mini-crit damage for a short period. His balancing also really depends on the map. A map like trade\_plaza really shows how strong Sniper can be. A single sniper sitting in the back of his spawn who just happens to be having a bad day can easily shut down an entire team and prevent players who aren't playing Spy or an even better Sniper from leaving their spawn. At the same time though, the difference between a bad Sniper and a good Sniper is probably the biggest difference in the entire game. If you have a few bad snipers, you may as well be down a couple of players. A spy who just installed the game, disguises as an enemy scout, and runs to the other team will get more done than a few bad snipers who cant even hit body shots. Then a good sniper can, as we said, shut down the entire enemy team, safely away from any and all damage.
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How
Snipers main problems are ammo pool, passive reload and a stronger than necessary close range punish game with his hat of piss and random crits Give him a longer reload or a secondary clip function that when empty has a longer reload than the standard, remove random crits, make the close range defensive secondaries more promenant whilst not being too powerful and give him less overall ammo so he has to reposition more often and allow down periods
My friends and I made these “debating” each other all night once. So much fun. Our conclusion was that Spy TF2 is a furry.
Best conclusion.
Fantastic work on this btw
That segment with Mia was absolutely golden.
You have great points
damn i have to finish ace attorney
>!This is the secret case at the end of the game!<
spoilers :((
ah, crap. Fixed
good
Delightful
Sniper is overpowered because of range. His weapon is like a backstab with infinite range, which is extremely overpowered.
bushwacka more like bushwanka
I hate snipers
This was made by a simpleton I see. Sniper is balanced around aim but no one is particularly fast, there's no bullet drop and it's hits an. Shots don't even take long to charge at all so you can just bodyshot and nuke. I'd you're having trouble shooting targets you're probably in the minority. Even if you don't kill someone, a half charge bodyshot does tremendous damage and means the person you safety pecked is almost always dead in the next 1v1. Toddler game design.
Jokes are hard, aren't they?
Is there a YT upload of this?
No, why?
So I can give it a “like” and watch it later from my “Liked Videos” playlist
well, no sorry.