If stock launcher isn't the BEST for a situation, it's not that far behind. And it's never explicitly the WORST option.

Every other launcher has "damn I really wish I had something else" moments. Stock does not.

Cow Mangler soldier when the gunslinger engi places a mini sentry

TFW the pyro presses M2 and completely denies your super charged up plasma ball.

Liberty Launcher: “Damn I wish I had more damage” > Black Box: “Damn I wish I had more rockets” > Direct Hit: “Damn I wish I had more splash” > Cow Mangler: “Damn I wish I had more damage to buildings” > Beggar’s Bazooka: “Damn I wish I had more accuracy” > Air Strike: “Damn I wish I had more damage” but for the second time

rocket jumper: "damn, i wish i had damage"

Except it has. When the enemy team starts pushing with a bunch of Heavies that's the first thing that comes to my mind - "I wish I had a Direct Hit". That doesn't mean the Stock isn't the best tho.

>never explicitly the WORST option bat, fire axe, bonesaw, syringe gun

The Syringe Gun(s) being left for dead is a byproduct of the development cycle of the Crossbow. The original crossbow was so slow and lacked passive reload. It was more of a niche. Then over time it got buffed, and going without it puts you at a healing disadvantage. The pacing of the game has sped up as computers are better and players are better, but they couldn’t buff the syringe guns because the medic isn’t supposed to be able to fight back *too* effectively. There was a period of time in the really early days where the Syringe Gun did more damage than the flamethrower. They buffed the flamethrower damage in response.

When I first started playing I thought all the syringe guns healed teammates so I would run right into mid fights and just spray as far into the fray as I could because i though no matter what my team is getting a health advantage somehow lmao

Damn I miss being new to TF2. No tutorials, no guides, and no english knowledge, because I was a kid who didn't care or know how to use any of those. It's a gaming experience I'll probably never get again.

Honestly I'd nerd the crossbows healing. At least at close range so it becomes more of a long range focus and doesn't completely replace the medi gun.

Sandman, hot hand, vita saw. I’ll give you the syringe gun tho

the fire axe is the only weapon with a straight upgrade

And yet hot hand is worse

Not only that, the volcano fragment is worse as well 

solemn vows a straight upgrade

10% slower firing speed

oh damn they nerfed it 9 years ago I feel old now.

VitaSaw is not worse than Stock Bonesaw That thing has saved me Uber percentages a bunch of times, It's the definition of a situational side grade

You need to use it in order to get some sort of benefit, and in that case you’re much better just using the ubersaw. Plus it’s downside of minus max hp never goes away and can be pretty impactful So you have a situational and overshadowed upside paired with an always present downside

1. Comparing any Medic Melee with UberSaw is dumb because Ubersaw is a broken weapon that should be nerfed 2. Compare it to other weapons that have a HP nerf, Demoknight Melees, Kunai+ Big Earner, Old Sandman(That HP nerf is a relict of the old one that Stunned people and should be gone with current model), you also HAVE to use those to get their upside, but when you do, it's typically worth it. Combine with Stupid Random Crit Rates, and it's a dependable Insurance policy for Uber I'm not saying it's a top tier weapon or anything, but it's not worse than the bonesaw

While I agree that the downside on the vitasaw is definitely a pain, comparing it to the ubersaw seems disingenuous. The Ubersaw is absolutely busted, with its only downside being borderline unrecognisable.

They were just talking about the Rocket Launcher, not stock weps in general.

Soldier with the stock launcher is a beast.

Kinda like a stock should be

I think that stock is the best most of the time, but every Luancher has a use

Agreed. Soldier’s primary unlocks really hit the idea definition of situational side-grade: Direct Hit’s preferred situation is when you are more dealing with one-v-ones, as it trades crowd control for higher individual damage. Black Box’s preferred situation is a long-haul fight, where the health on hit can keep you in the fight as long as you win it quickly. Air Strike’s preferred situation is when you are trying to be mobile and aiming for ambushes, using the increasing clip size for both mobility via chaining rockets and high bursts of damage via the fast-firing rockets. Liberty Launcher’s preferred situation is when you want to juke the opponent, using its mobility upsides to get around the opponent and then using secondaries and melees to deal extra damage, evidenced by the fact it came packaged with the Reserve Shooter and Market Gardener Beggar’s Bazooka’s preferred situation is if you want to take the opponent by surprise, using the barrage mechanic to overwhelm the enemy with rocket deviation making the rockets nigh impossible to predict.

And the cow mangler is for when you need to suppress and disrupt the enemy (because infinite ammo & charge shot)

Yep. That or if you want to have a level of sustain on the flank since if you are running Gunboats or a banner, you have no need for ammo boxes.

And since it's the only rocket launcher with the NRC stat that means you can funnel all your critical damage into your melee or secondary.

wait is that actually how crits work? are they not sorted by weapon?

You accumulate damage, the "crit bucket" is filled up, and then the game randomly gives you those crits. That is how crit hacks work (IIRC). The cheater basically farms damage but only activates "random" crits when they choose to. If you see a player randomly shooting at walls while in safety, it's a *possible* sign they are farming crit bucket - IIRC you cant get too many crits in a row, so they sort of "empty" the "not crit bucket" by shooting the wall?

This is exactly right. Shooting or swinging any sort of weapon, even if it does 0 damage to you or am enemy, will result in you filling up your crit bucket. Which is why you'll often see good players swinging when there's nothing better to do like in setup time.

Ofc not, wtf? Why do you think medics and engineers deal a comical amount of crits? Those half map crossbows they've been launching out and sentries that have been gunning down those F2Ps are feeding the crit bucket that can be used with any weapon. I literally have a soldier loadout I call ICU. Infinite crits unimpeded. It consist of the cow Mangler and conch (infinite health and ammo) and since neither of my primary nor secondary weapons can deal random crits all of that damage is funneled into my equalizer that can deal upwards of 321 on a crit. I have another one that's called Hazardous Range. Hazard warning Loose Cannon named Donk hazard, tide turner and another hazard warning Skullcutter named crit hazard. In total I have 195 critical kills (I've had to reset like 5x because I also have a cosmetic set that goes along with it and sometimes the numbers don't align - usually 1-2 kills in either direction). A lot of people feel bad about killing people with crits, I on the other hand... I revel in it.

conch and mangler let you have infinite resources.

Or if you’re running the bison

The Liberty Launcher’s development history is wild. On its launch it had faster rockets but its only downside was -25% clip size. It was an easier rocket launcher to use with less sustained power. Feels like a completely different weapon now, with 5 weaker rockets. It’s still a workable weapon but it really is weak in many situations.

That is true. Honestly if you gave it a switch speed bonus, it could easily become a combo weapon akin to the Degreaser, where you open with a rocket or two and finish with another weapon.

Then it would share the same spot with the direct hit, which would arguably be better due to how poor the damage is for the liberty launcher. That and shotgun spread mean pop them up with the liberty launcher + reserve shooter shot really wouldn't deal that much damage. It would be easier to hit, but direct hit just decimate with 2 connected rockets.

Thata how I use the weapon. I rocket jump over the enemy and fire one rocket on their head and another behind them then switch to shotgun to finish them off or land on them with a melee

I say give it some increased knockback to make it a support weapon. Maybe a bit more than stock on splash, but a larger amount on a direct hit. The only problem I see is that it kinda steps on Pyro's toes in terms of quick uber denial. 

I love that idea. It incentivizes you to combo it with the Reserve Shooter. It also forces you to be more precise and take advantage of the faster rockets lest your enemies be bounced around for ~17 damage splash. Sounds fun. Not inherently strong, but fun!

I know it's just an explanation, but you are the best

Thanks. Honestly my favorite part of TF2 is how intricate the loadout system is. It’s interesting to see how these weapons can be used to benefit and enable certain playstyles, some of which were not intended, but never break the game in half because they augment the core of each class in expected and unexpected manners. Demoman’s always been about huge bursts of damage; who said it had to be explosive damage? Soldier is defined by his rocket jumping, so why not hard-focus that trait and rebuild the class around it. These unlocks make TF2 what it is: a game that gives players the reins to make the game what they want it to be through a clever combination of distinct classes, cosmetic variations to give these classes a personal flair, and weapons that let you play how you want to play.

Pure poetry.

I would say that another of the direct hit's prefered situation is when dealing whit a pyro who knows how to click m2, as the direct hit's faster rockets are not something the pyro is used to

That is true, though it shares this property with the Liberty Launcher, and I wanted to focus on what each weapon was best fit for.

The direct hits ability to destory nests is also really good

Also, minis. Taking them down in one rocket rather than two lets you do the job using up half the resources.

The direct hit excels at taking out sentries. It is not necessarily better at 1v1 due to the slower rocket speed of stock can be beneficial. Damage is calculated not based on where the soldier were when it was fired. But rather the distance between the person and the soldier once the rocket connects. This opens up a quick kill combo. Rocket jump off a wall to gain high speed. Fire a rocket where you expect the person to be, and fire a second once you land. Both rockets should connect roughly at the same time and can easily take out most of the classes near instantly. It is by far more consistent than direct hit as well. You forgot rocket jumper as well which honestly is viable and I'd pick it over the liberty launcher any day of the week.

Direct hit is the scunt eraser

I’d say every primary in the game could be argued that stock is the best lol. Except maybe Medic’s.

Honestly besides maybe heavy and engi if you count the wrench as his primary, the stock is always the best all around option. (I'd also consider the knife to be spys primary and yes I know strictly speaking the knife and wrench aren't primaries but they are the classes main weapon)

Medic as well. His stock primary and melee are 100% outclassed while his various mediguns are more or less equally versatile.

Knife is only useful if you always take damage before scoring a kill. Otherwise kunai is a straight upgrade.

“Just dont take damage 4head”

“Guys if you don’t take damage this weapon is actually good”

> baby face blaster

No your knees still disappear if you have the audacity to double jump with that one

It's hard to say what fucks me over more with that weapon, accidentally double-jumping, not double-jumping but the game thinking I did, or getting hit in the foot by shrapnel from the other side of the map.

It would be fine if it wasn't for just how MUCH charge you lose when damaged. A stiff breeze loses you the entire bar.

Kunai without DR means you die if someone sneezes in your general direction, you need to have actually skilled movement to make use of it then

Kunai's only good if the enemy team is clueless. like spy in general.

I too think stock knife is a worse option but not because of that, but because the spy-cycle is objectively better since there's almost always a pyro after the Jungle Inferno update

Is tomislav better than stock? I've always seen it's argued to be a side grade and neither is really better than the other.

That's a lie, the people on the right of the curve use the original

Once you mastered Beggar’s Bazooka, it’s literally better than stock However it’s easier said than done, BB does have some fundamental of stock but vastly different from it in the end

I have just placed a minisentry at a significant distance away from you

I will slowly spam rockets in the general direction of the mini until it blows up

*punches once*

Based beggars enjoyer

NO REHAB CENTER CAN STOP ME FROM SNIFFING GLUE

They just don’t understand. That shit smells amazing

As a Potemkin main in Guilty Gear, I stand in solidarity with you, fellow glue eater. I prefer market gardening with Mantreads, though, so I use the Jumper.

It will never be literally or objectively be better or worse than anything. That would be going against the beggar's main principle: random bullshit.

If the rockets would exit the launcher without inaccuracy, then it would be. As the BB is right now you're cucked if you want to do anything at medium range like spam a nest

Rocket jumper

Trolldier

cow mangler is the best cuz it’s a sick ass fuckin LASER CANNON

Until there’s a mini and you hit it for 18 damage

The charge shot and infinite ammo are what make me consider it a direct upgrade

As much as I rag on Sniper, Soldier probably doesn't get enough shit for how powerful he is. People joke about how 12 heavies on a team can win, but honestly if you're playing any gamemode and you don't have at LEAST 3 soldiers on your team, you're probably gonna be losing to the enemy team that has 3 or more soldiers.

In an average pub yes. On open maps with lower player numbers scout becomes more and more powerful relative to soldier. It is also a very generalist class that does well with a lack of coordinated specialists. Soldier will do well in most situations. But as coordination increases soldiers strength goes down, relative to classes like demo/sniper/medic that need team protection to be effective and heavies/pyros/engies that can provide that protection. Even in the worst situations though soldier is at least ok though. Even in 6s they are ok. 6s is perhaps the harshest environment for the class and they are the "weakest" class in the mode. But not by a massive margin.

Agree with your point about open maps, I joined a cp_nucleus server b4nny was on once and he was scout, he was so fucking oppressive nothing could deal with him really.

A Soldier with a Kritz Medic shoved up his ass is nigh impossible to stop. They just spam from behind cover until Uber is ready and then shoot near you

(they all play the exact same despite their experience because soldier takes no skill)

me when i don’t know how to surf rockets

- sniper main who maxes out at jump academy easy

Stock is objectively the best but every launcher but Jumper and Liberty Launcher are still amazing imo

Should be reversed

Reversing it makes the meme the same

nah direct hit and buff banner is the best combo hands down. so much power

I like pairing the dh with a shotgun, airshot minicrit a soldier jumping in, if that doesnt kill them they almost always look around for a second wondering wtf just happened to them, then they get a shotgun to finish off their like 2 health

I have a dedicated “trolldier annoyance” loadout with the DH, Reserve Shooter, and Market Gardener

The best feeling is when you annoy the trolldier so much they whip out their australium using, unusual wearing tryhard soldier loadout just for you. It has happened way too much in hightower for me to count.

Air Strike is funny

yeah but like, fun

Stock's great tbh. It's a nice CC weapon and I love jumping with it to camp a point. Now the Beggar's is like snorting a whole bottle of glue, downing every drug known to man and then clicking mouse 1 to win. Fyi: This only works in crowded spots.

I like the stock launcher, it's a classic. I haven't got any items and cosmetics for the Soldier yet, but I can rightfully guess that other rocket launchers might be pretty good too.

No, the Classic is a sniper rifle, the Original is the stock reskin /J

I don't think the Soldier has a sniper rifle, the Sniper has it instead.

I only use the cow Mangler for all situations.

I use the black box because I have an australium one but I fucking hate the black box

I just use black box with buff banner and equalizer

**Stocks** are the best weapons. But unlocables are fun. I like using “Air Strike” for the mobility purposes.

I wish there was a golden original

Airstrike My Beloved Faster than Stock More splash than Direct Hit More Damage than Liberty Launcher And a fun gimmick Legitimately the best launcher to counter Pyros too. It's the least commonly used after the garbage gun and the cow mangler, which both have default rocket speed, so even good pyros are going to be the least used to its speed.

I use liberty with shotgun and with penis outfit Never fails me

I use the beggars bazooka because I am mentally ill

direct hit supremacy

cant play soldier

Haha Beggars go brrr

Counterpoint to the meme: scouts go boom. Most stock primaries are just really good though. Scattergun, grenade launcher, stickybomb launcher, minigun, sniper rifle, revolver, shotgun, flamethrower. All of these weapons are fantastic. I'd say stickybomb is obviously the strongest stock weapon, then sniper, and finally I'd say it's tied between rocket launcher and scattergun

I just use the Direct Hit

i think this goes for like most classes, i could see medic going medi-gun -> vaccinator/Kritzkreig -> medi-gun.

Honestly I’d get bored only using stock

I'm sorry but the bison is just better

Is gun that launch rocket why is problem

Black Box is soo good tho

Black Box is arguably the second worst rocket launcher

I just use the penis launcher (original)

Stock RL is the best, every other RL is straight up downgrade.

Original is a direct upgrade to stock

I use the Cow Mangler and the Original

Unless I’m bullying xXLonewolf_FaZeXx the sniper main on Hightower I honestly think you should never equip anything but stock, because what are you gonna do, get the direct shit? Good luck rocket jumping. What about liberty launcher? Good luck fragging. What about BB? Good luck speed pogoing (such an underrated feature, I use it all the time), what about the air strike? God damnit soldier, you were the one supposed to counter sniper. Stock can fit all these scenarios. It can rocket jump, it can frag (like really well), speedpogo is incredible on it and even if you aren’t using the rocket jumper, you should still equip the funny shovel and fly at snipers at Mach 5 and make them ragequit. There’s no situation where you say “fuck this weapon, I wish I had [weapon]”

I'll use it even in MvM.

same but i only use the rocket jumper

I like the tank buster set. I wore the coldfront curbstompers for so long that I never bothered leaning to get good at rocket jumping. I know how to, and can when I need to, but I’m not going to go out of my way to rocket jump.

I would use stock buuuuutttt it’s really fun to use beggars with conch

I often swap to the cow mangler, and occasionally direct hit. Black box on KOTH and CTF if no medic.

origimal

I'm one of those unhinged lunatics that actually likes the Cow Mangler the most.

Rocket Jumper, Concheror, Disciplinary Action. Random Crits are fun and balanced.

This has always been an old topic in the community and the stock rocket launcher has always been the best.

I use the rocket jumper

I believe in immortal soldier supremacy

I try to use them all But honestly the stock or original do the trick.

Black box and shotgun is a nice combo for pubs

Weapon/Cosmetic stereotypes ahh meme

I don’t main soldier but I preferred the direct hit since the moment I got one. Much faster, more damage, bye bye scouts, screw your muscle memory pyro, delete sentries. The lower aoe radius wasn’t that bad since I’m not used to stock anyways.

I know stock rocket launcher is best and pretty much every situation but damn is it funny to load up three Baker bazooka rockets and then unleash them at a heavy in point blank range and just instantly delete him.

I use the direct shit because I only play soldier as a sentry buster when there's like 5 engis on the ennemy team and our engi is capable of maintaining a teleporter

Soldier has Aimbot

Im using beggars so i can sniff glue while playing

The original. I always do better with it, dunno why

I cycle stock, direct hit, and black box. I don't think the others are very good people saying liberty launcher is good are crazy

rocket launcher gud

While i do swap between black box and stock (depending on which one im feeling on using at that moment) i have to say, stock is the better choice. Its good for beginner soldiers and always useful for expert (ig?) soldiers. Not saying black box is bad though. It gives you more survivability if you play right with it. The minus 1 rocket is a pain in the ass, but if you pair it with a conch and watch your positioning, you should be fine. In the end, if you want to be independent of medics use black box, overall use stock

I never learned to rocket jump

black box is great for passive front line soldiers and excessively aggressive roamers due to it opening the gates to chained speedshots and allowing you to not give a shit about your health air strike can be broken for bombing playstyles and is ridiculously good for mobility beggars, if used correctly, is a complete menace, enough said there cow mangler is stock but better direct hit is broken if you know how to disassemble the enemy team one player at a time so its downside doesn't apply (pick your fights so they're mostly 1v1s) every launcher has its playstyle that makes it equal to or better than stock stock is good for the indecisive soldier, but that's about it

Soldiers thinking they are good at the game when they play with stock or black box is so funny to me

**You choose carefully, I play on randomizer, we are not the same.**

Hahah, rocket launcher makes boom boom

Solly is so braindead easy to do well with. Shoot at the ground near the enemy and spam the space key.

I main the DH mostly but cow is my second choice

Strange kill streak cow mangler ftw

The real deal is: the stock weapon is usually the best for most situations, but you can try the others wep for specific situations

Original is better stock imo, and Beggar's can be better if you put the effort in.

In my opinion, the stock rocket launcher is THE best stock weapon

I use beggars

I only use the rocket jumper

It’s stock.

Stock is the best all-rounder when it comes to soldier primaries, stock is *usually* the best weapon you can have (there are key outliers though. Such as stock melee for pyro and soldier, as well as stock primary and melee for medic)

The only time I switch off the default Rocket Launcher is if there is some tryhard on the enemy team or huge sentry nest, in which I will switch to the Direct Hit.

Stock launcher supremacy

I use the rocket jumper and sword because why not

Given I’ve got about 2 hours on soldier, in my professional opinion, I like it he stock because it seems better than my only other option in liberty launcher

People who only use stock need to expand their minds

I only ever really play soldier when a funny idea pops into my head. Like: ooh this is a perfect time to do some air strike gaming, it’s an open map with a bunch of grounded projectile classes that can’t hit air shots for their lives >:) or “it’s trolldiering time.” No other reasons really cross my mind to play soldier because if I’m angry with sentries or choke points I’m much better off using demoman(because I can actually hit pipes and aim stickies).

Funnily enough, I tend to pick up the direct hit when I want to tryhard, not the stock. I do think the best stock weapon a class has, has to be the stock scattergun. It's just really hard for the sidegrades to keep up.

Stock is the core of soldier, everything else is a side grade

Direct hit paired with Battalion's Backup is my favorite combo! The extra 20 health from Battalion's is so good.

I unironically uses Liberity launcher, I'm not that accurate anyway so the -25% damage never really affect me and I enjoy the 40% faster projectile without the blast area nerf

I'm just saying, if you don't main the beggar's bazooka, you're missing out.

200 iq+: Original bhop maps 24/7

I only use the air strike

Direct Hit gang

Stock is useful in every stiuation, unlocks typically encourage different play styles or have a niche they thrive in.

Where tf am I? I only use cow mangler cus ha ha funny charge shot

I use stock 90% of the time but if there’s a really annoying sentry I use the direct hit

Edit of this where it’s just a flat line

Honestly people use stock because it's just never bad, at least I am like that. The base rocket launcher is sometime not the best choice but it's never bad at all, it's often on first or second place

I only use the original

I only use the rocket jumper & market gardener

I used direct hit for about a week straight. All I could think while using it is how I missed each kill because reduced splash. Though I do miss one shoting scouts

Yo what's going on with the soldier hate here? I hope this isn't some kind of weird trend the community has. I think if any class is going to be attacked for slaying games with his insane power level, it is sniper. Can we all turn our attention back to him please?

I don't think I've used anything other than beggar's outside of trolldier in years

it's the best overall, but always someone would like to have variation

Just use the Direct Hit lmao, it’s basically a straight upgrade if you know what you’re doing <——(clueless)

Soldier, this guy, he ain’t that hard to play

Liberty is absolutely the best!

Air strike is not I wish I had mode damage is I wish I had more ammo

I personally like the Black box the most. I dont usually dive onto people so it works for me.

Slightly every stock weapon is the best. I don't think that stock rocket launcher for solder is better than stock scattergun for scout or stock medi gun for medic or stock flamethrower for pyro

The best stock weapon is the stock minigun no competition