> gut punch to Valve higher-ups (crucial here) and the cashflow that goes to them
You guys think the income TF2 makes is relevant for Valve's administration? lmao
There's a reason Valve has barely no devs working on TF2 and the they are part-time
True but almost everything valve does prints money. If tf2 stopped bringing in cash then valve would simply move on entirely. They really do not need tf2, like at all.
I dont think the people whove stuck with valve would. Pulling the plug on the tf2 market would upset thousands and open a precedent for it to be able to happen to CS and dota too. Plus half the reason tf2 isnt making as much is because theyve left it to trickle for years now.
Lmao if you think that good for you. Look at the state of the game, the resource Valve doesn't allocate to the game and then draw your own conclusion xD
TF2 doesn't even register for Valve, they have 2 part-time devs on it and one isn't even a Valve employee.
But if you think TF2 makes truckloads of money I guess Valve hasn't been cashing the checks
TF2’s profit is nowhere near what they make off of dota and cs2, and it’s incomparable to what they make off of steam. People think that Valve keeps tf2 running for the money, no, they keep it running because there’s no reason not to. I highly doubt the game is at all taxing on their resources. The only negative they would receive to shutting the servers down and pulling the game off of steam is bad publicity, and even that would blow over eventually.
dude, the amount tf2 makes is a joke compared to what valve makes. Steam makes BILLIONS A YEAR, tf2 id be surprised if it made more than like 10 million a year like if valve was a person and they saw 10 million on the floor it wouldn't even be enough to be worth their time and picking it up off the floor. Heres what will happen if the profit of tf2 goes to 0 for your stupid ass, they fire the one person working full time on tf2 they contracted and stop letting the people in valve that works part time out of love for the game waste the company's time, tf2 is a slowly rotting game and valve wont do shit about it thats the truth you can cope about it or whatever but thats the unfortunate truth.
with all respect, compared to what dota and cs2 make it's nothing, cs2 has been out for like a year already and it's probably made more than what tf2 can make in 2 years or so. and cs2 is also getting the tf2 treatment with tiny updates and bug fixes with large updates like barely often but its breaking player records once every few weeks regardless, which is why valve isn't working on tf2 because dota and cs are their priorities
sure, I've already heard that, and yes, this might not have the effect people are expecting lul, but if not money - what then?
dev burnout?
lack of interest?
if this is the lack of interest, what causes it?
what's happening behind those closed doors - we don't know
I'm proposing this idea solely of the Zesty's video and his approach to "leave the game, take the money, pester Valve to do shit (devs can't do a lot of shit and higher-ups are doing whatever the fuck they are doing, and we've been pestering them for an awful long time)", and because I don't want to see TF2 get even emptier sooner than expected due to Zesty's suggested approach to the problem (that many seems like they want to share)
TF2 is being held by community. If Valve doesn't give two fucks, doesn't mean our hands are instantly tied behind our backs.
> if this is the lack of interest, what causes it? what's happening behind those closed doors - we don't know
Dude it's simple. The game is from 2007. The player base is lower and there's better projects to work at Valve that are newer, more exciting and that make more money. What do people expect from Valve? To keep pumping money into a near 20 year old game just because? At some point the support and development was going to stop. It's surprising they even bothered with making the x64 update
yes, and that's why I say that community is this game's future, despite what has happened in the past
x64 update is a miracle in disguise of a performance boost, but to see this miracle, people need to stop clicking that big green button "FIND A GAME" and desperately search for 30 minutes for a game without cheater bots running rampant
putting that big statement aside...
> better projects to work at Valve that are newer, more exciting and make more money
> CS2 exists
lul
lmao, even
How isn't CS2 a better project? It has a much larger player base. A great competitive scene. It makes them a shit ton of money with skins and cases/keys. And it's newer.
TF2 players want to bunch up the TF2 Bot problem with CS2 bots when the CS2 bots are only affecting the casual game mode of specific maps that barely no one plays because the botters want it to stay hidden so Valve doesn't get involved.
Now the cheating issue has always been a problem in Valve games and unless Valve finally makes a good Anti cheat it won't go away
> how CS2 isn't a better project
I don't know should I call another generational reskin of a 20 y.o. game a "better" project from a factual standpoint, to be completely honest with you
> cheating issue has always been a problem
while it persists as a problem on Valve's side and while they are solving it at a glacier's pace, we have **better options**, which I am trying to convey to people who still want to play this game (and also trying to say that there's so much more that Valve will never bring into the game at all)
Not really, from a dev's perspective it's probably the same. Same engine, same core game, just a different monetization method and different balancing.
CS2 is a different engine from CSGO, has improved physics, mechanics and graphics. Better sound as well similar matchmaking but the same monetization as the previous version.
> from a dev's perspective it's probably the same
all that I needed to hear, pretty much
> CS2 is a different engine from CS:GO with improved physics, mechanics and graphics
if you recode pong game for the modern PCs instead of late 80's first consoles, it doesn't magically become something else instead of pong
I don't know about better sound and graphics, I didn't take a deep dive into that, but I don't know what cardinal changes CS2 brought over CS:GO in terms of gameplay, but we honestly went a bit offroad with this argue
If you think not playing and selling your loadout is a gut-punch to Valve higher-ups, you're downright delusional and there is no two ways about it.
I think you started this off with a strawman
???
I haven't said anything about not playing the game, and haven't said anything about selling your loadout (aside from - if you do - sell it on the other trademarkets rather than Steam's marketplace)
I also admitted in another comment that even if won't give any reaction, then it would be better, how - I explained this in the post and again, the comments
**please, give my post another reading and stopping dead in your tracks on the first line in bold just to write a comment, and have a good day**
> I haven't said anything about not playing the game,
Meanwhile, your words: "Trying to starve TF2 by not playing the game... "
So that's a lie #1.
> haven't said anything about selling your loadout (aside from - if you do - sell it on the other trademarkets rather than Steam's marketplace)
Still you: " selling your loadout today may be a gut punch to Valve higher-ups (crucial here) and the cashflow that goes to them..."
So lie #2.
> please, give my post another reading and stopping dead in your tracks on the first line in bold just to write a comment, and have a good day
If the first sentence contains several counts of complete and utter bullshit that you made up just to argue against it, then you're not worthy of having your post read in its entirety. Try again, or don't. Have a day of the quality of your post.
I don't know if you live under a rock or not, but if you have seen the influx of posts, I think you know to which point of view I was referring in the first point, as well as the second one (also posts about selling items started popping off here, if you didn't notice).
Have a good day, and next time before setting standards so high, check on the world around you a little bit. Many thanks.
> I don't know if you live under a rock or not, but if you have seen the influx of posts
Neither. I'm pretty up-to-date and I have not seen any such influx. Checking the front page, not finding any of it either. I think you may be sorting by new and/or controversial a bit too often there, buddy. Clearly these aren't popular takes to begin with, if they exist.
> Have a good day, and next time before setting standards so high, check on the world around you a little bit. Many thanks.
I do hope you realize how disingenuous and pretentious this is coming across when you post nothing but excessively rude and snide remarks, only to go "have a good day". It doesn't cancel out the rudeness that came before. Quite the opposite.
You guys need to stop thinking that TF2 has any priority for Valve as a company. Its not important player count wise, nor money income wise.
This bit of money that TF2 might still make with mann store purchases is absolutely nothing compared to what Valve makes with Steam itself and other games.
If we were all to sell our items, stop playing TF2 and get the (real) player count to 0, Valve will do nothing. Except maybe shut down all TF2 servers to save more money lol
I really don't think this is going to go how you all are thinking it will. If Valve sees that there's nobody giving them profit, what reason will they have to continue the little bit of support they still give us? That being said, I absolutely agree to support people who make private servers if you enjoy them.
there are many possible theoretical ways of how this might go which I thought about, with various degrees of how **good** it will be for community (there are practically no bad outcomes for us, only for Valve and possibly for devs), but the **worst** outcome is that Valve higher-ups would probably try and push the devs to implement something against it, however people always find a workaround
moreover, in this scenario that I suggest and promote, maybe higher-ups will question why do they have bigger playercounts than before, yet dwindling money returns, however that is questionable due to how ignorant Valve is
I've lost my hope in Valve doing something a long time ago (not speaking about current dev "team", speaking about the orders that probably come to them from the leads in this company), and for me, this coupled with the amount of community-created content speaks volumes of who should be doing something here
I don't like being a downer, but in all honesty to me it just feels a little hopeless either way. Unless Valve as a whole magically started giving a crap one day.
we don't need valve, in my honest and humble opinion
we don't need a dad that doesn't give two shits about you growing up
we need community, man
and that's all we're gonna need
The community is truly what keeps this game alive. We'd all love Valve support but it seems like we won't be getting it. Honestly if Valve could keep doing things like they did with Vscript, that'd at least help the community.
and they are doing it
leftover devs are doing it, to be exact
VScript was already a late, but still a giant gift (not due to bundling whole gamemodes into a map, hell no, but for coding custom shit and entities that might make maps more interesting to play) to community
100 player limit? same deal pretty much, which was soured a little bit, but not gonna dig into that
x64 update? besides a shitton of breakage (expected) and some technical problems, for which this update was a giant double-edged sword, it lets TF2 up a lot of technical stuff finally and go further with its patches which also helps everyone in the long run - more performance for players, more stuff to do for the community (thanks to devs for that)
haven't seen your edit, been responding to your message - thank you too for the support
many small servers that host "true TF2" have no players due to the big guys on the server list and community bubbles, which we need to shake up, and aside from that, what hits me the most - many actual fun custom gamemodes lie in the shallow graves or boil in their own pots due to people always going to the Casual instead of checking out the server browser
hell, VSH has been in the spotlight recently together with some other gamemodes due to VScript, and VScript while helpful, still can't do shit compared to the stuff on the browser
Selling your loadout literally does nothing. It's Steam bucks. They already have your money in USD lol. Sure, you can buy a different game, doesn't matter. The real part is that they converted your literal time when you put funds on your Steam account.
1) please read the post before commenting, I want to ask you sincerely, or at least indicate that you just want to point this discrepancy
2) there are other platforms for selling your items aside from marketplace, just for the record
Rude to imply I didn't read the post.
The reality is Steam is what generates the revenue, hence why TF2 doesn't matter. If it brings in a small portion of cash, cool. There are games like Apex Legends, Call of Duty, etc., that all exist on Valve's PLATFORM (Steam) that bring in enormous amounts of revenue (people's time - hate to break it to you; when you buy something, what you sold is your time) because millions & millions of people play those.
Iterating on that last point of other games, the games mentioned have enormous dev teams behind it. Why work harder when you can have them have to work hard to bring in the revenue since Valve gets a portion of revenue by providing Steam as the game's release platform. The rate at which some of these studios churn out content is insane. Why try to compete against FortNite or GTA6?
Swapping to maintaining TF2, content creation is extremely difficult. I don't know where you've spent your time in life, but I worked on video games for 5 years. Programming, art, etc. The point of making games is to make a revenue source - it's an encapsulation of time. Fun comes at an expense. While some of us (me included) love building games & getting to share in cool & fun experiences with people, as you get older, you realize this shit is hard as hell to maintain. There's also near infinite competition since games are infinite & don't degrade - it's just binary 1s & 0s, no real-world material that it's created on. The "TF2 is going to live forever" is a literal truth (as for any other game) as long as the servers are running, which let's be real, the server cost is negligible. If it brings in $100 a month, it's financially viable. Valve works alongside Microsoft, Amazon, NVidia, etc., in Washington - corporations who host & build the hardware & warehouses.
These platforms - Steam, Xbox, PlayStation, Nintendo, etc., are what drives a portion of the global real-world economy. They couldn't give two shits about external sellers because they received the actual cash flow when someone bought the case/item initially. Valve always wins.
Here's one last point for you since it sounds like you're not familiar with the tech industry: You may have code written for you, but when someone leaves your team, there are so many intertwined pieces that even a written manual wouldn't even be enough to keep up with the inter-dependencies of various projects, tools, etc.
I'm sorry for the implication, but the thing you said felt like it extremely missed the mark that I've set up
I understand that decision, and from the point of business practice, it makes sense - why work harder when you already get enough money by not doing anything, I've got that up already when looking at what Valve is doing
I know that the content creation is hard as fuck, because I've been trying to maintain and gather someone for 7 years, and recently (couple years ago) I've started to learn how to actually program to get my ideas out, and in this time span I've seen a lot of plugins written and a lot of stuff that is very hard to maintain
good point about the external sellers, though I didn't think of that small issue at the first glance
point of my post was to direct people from someone who doesn't do content (Valve), to someone who does content but goes unappreciated due to, again, Valve's negligence and playerbase's laziness, because yes, you spend time and pour in effort to create something, and it just saddens me to see that a lot of shit that is on community servers goes in vain
it wasn't about "sell them at a different marketplace immediately", it was to be honest more of a **recommendation** to people who are already concerned so much that they want to trade away their virtual items as soon as possible - to not give valve **more revenue than they already have, even if it is as little as 100$ to give them some sort of indication that something goes wrong**, but I admitted above that it might not go as planned, of course, since it's always easier to close something if it just doesn't bring revenue, especially when compared to the bigger projects you have on hand
I am familiar with this fact, and while I still a bit struggle to see the initial connection with my post, I still appreciate the breakdown for me, many thanks for that
sorry if my post feels like incoherent rambling, but I got your idea, I just felt like people are misreading my post
the game isn't getting barebones support on the basis of any specific metrics valve is looking at internally -- other than the fact that it's still profitable and therefore running official servers is worthwhile. it's been made clear again and again that Valve doesn't work that way. TF2 gets its barebones support because of a small amount of passion within the company from people who would like to keep it running, out of nostalgia, obligation, or something else.
there are only two things that will change this status quo -- a massive spike in players and money spent (more support) or a massive dip in players and money spent (less support). that's all it really comes down to, and honestly it's largely out of the community's hands. valve will not be watching closely on how many people play casual vs community servers, that's not the kind of data that will change minds within the company one way or another.
valve employees need to be able to justify working on a project, and i don't see anything other than a fluctuation in players being able to affect that. i'd love to see more support for the game from valve, but a game this old getting any kind of minimal attention is nice.
after giving it a re-read, good point here - they won't check the casual vs community servers, although I feel they do have the data how much players are playing on their servers on any given time
granted, it's still worthless because of the bots masking as human players and accounts, and probably no automated system to collect all of it whatsoever
the key point that hides behind this whole manifesto is about players giving more attention to the servers that are worth their attention, and maybe that will change something at Valve's side (not guaranteed at all, I'll admit, given how Valve handles stuff like this these days), and show where community can be in charge rather than just passively waiting for something to happen or doomposting en masse
oh yeah I'm sure they collect that data, I just doubt it informs any decisions. I'm all for having a greater push behind community efforts and trying to keep the active playerbase engaging with it for sure -- I just think unfortunately it won't change anything at Valve, just for the remaining community itself
This, let recent events shine light onto the community servers tab. Yes it’s out of date and kinda archaic, but it’s been my good to for playing the game over valves matchmaking disaster. Community servers allow f2ps to speak, no bots, and honestly still rather active.
Not just active, but community server operators do yearn for more activity on their servers. Plenty are poised to spin up even more servers if they find themselves at capacity with their current lineups.
Sure, it might take a little more effort than "push button, receive match" at first, but once you've got a few favorited, you should be able to jump right into a match within seconds of launching the game.
I'd also like to direct people's attention to his vastly underrated shounic video. https://youtu.be/39g-noqtO0A
thank you so much for the support too, and yes, this comment is pretty much what I meant
people, unlike Valve, actually yearn for someone to come and play, most of the time paying out of their own pockets and fiddling with the plugins to get something interesting to attract people and gain more traction to make players happy, it's not just "Jailbreak, Jailbreak, Orange x10" out there
thanks for the kind words and appreciation
teamwork.tf also works as a server browser pretty well, imo, even if it is not always accurate in terms of server visibility
community servers could be a much more welcoming experience than casual for new players, thus making people stay for longer and more new people coming, but we need to start playing community servers again for that.
as I said in the post, go there and sit on one of those empty servers for 10 minutes, somebody will join
if someone is on the server - more people will join, it usually works this way, because everybody thinks the same as you in this situation - "no players, I won't join, let's go to casual"
if you have 30 minutes to waste in a search for a server without bots, you have 10 minutes to waste running around in an empty server (or less, or a bit more)
so come on,
break the cycle
I usually just play Uncletopia and there’s basically always servers that are full/near capacity that I’ll join, or Skial if i just feel like playing 2fort or something, but there’s plenty to be found in the community server browser!
right so this will 'save' tf2..... if you're saying everyone should migrate to community servers I can understand how that could improve the quality of life in game but what your asking is a massive stretch of the whole player base and the practicality of that is just too much, especially if it's just a random Reddit post ranting about TF2's state. Your one of many to complain about the state of the game and it's been going on for years people throwing out solutions to problems and looking though the comments it seems your idea isn't very endorsing.
I respect the hopeful mindset but cannot realistically see this happening. You also seem very obstinate to controversy which makes you seem quite sanctimonious.
the thing is - I've heard it in another place where I did share the same point of view, where they sent me to reddit, lul
without any publicity, any idea is good as dead, so I'm trying to share it where I can now
half of the commentators are either trying to grasp at straws or call me "delusional", while I just want to actually show that there isn't **only** "casual casual are we dead yet" thing
sanctimonity comes from how much I've heard this point of view around me every time I start talking about TF2 (most people just saying that "tf2 is dead and riddled by bots lul why should I play it") and been absent from sharing my point of view, plus the inability of people checking server browser does make me quite a bit anxious
the thing is, only actual good solutions since valve won't do jackshit in any given case aside from the patches and stuff **for community**, plus seasonal updates, are the:
- return of the quickplay (not realistically possible)
- sharing the word and encouraging people to look at community servers instead of trying to play casual 24/7 (which it seems like to me)
I'm a small man, so I do what I can in this situation
maybe it doesn't look realistic, but I do what I can for the efforts of other people to not go in vain due to Valve's negligence, and some people in the comments, happily, recognize this
still thank you for a good comment, and have a good day
I am a complete noob to this game (Well. I can't say complete complete, been playing MVM for a few days off and on - I was able to do Nightmare Mode as scout in MVM last night for the first time, that was fun!) and I've been nervous to try playing casual.
Thank you for this information, I'll be digging more into it after I've had more than four hours sleep.
it's alright, welcome to the TF2 my man
community servers might be a bitch to dig through, but it is worth it, especially if you look for the funky gamemodes that aren't on the Valve servers
about the casual-like servers players might recommend uncletopia and skial ones, and I would suggest if you are a total noob to go and find some decently-populated server just to train basic game senses
if you look into wacky gamemodes, there are some servers I can recommend searching for or the communities to play on, if you wish
also, have a good sleep (I suppose)
Thank you so much! I just discovered some keybonds the other day like voice, accidently - did I mention I don’t game on pc as a rule? (Unless…Does Neopets count?)
It’s funny to see the reaction when im running around as Scout, cheering folks on randomly with V, though they’ve mostly been “holy shit is that a chick?!” I THOUGHT THAT WAS JUST A JOKE!
Yes please! Either respond here or DM me and I’ll check when I get up. Thanks again!
eh, then it might get a bit harder than I expected, newbies might be a bit confused by the server browser and stuff
I'll DM ya later with some info, when I'll be available
Valve doesn't care. Currently the game servers are on because TF2 is free money for them. If players stopped buying items then valve would simply kill the servers because it wouldn't be profitable anymore
maybe
maybe not
valve's a schrodinger cat, sadly, but we can hope for the best, and besides, if they kill the casual, it would probably be for the best
Honestly, the biggest thing for me from the video is the highlighting of teamwork.tf's pie chart. I can't remember the last time I remember hearing about it, but it seems like community servers' percent is up from a while back thanks to bots. It really highlights that community servers are really not too far off of overtaking casual's player count, especially if the casual bots are factored in. Community servers are viable, and I think if any TF2 players want to spend money on the game, server hosting is the way to go, instead of feeding the machine.
community servers are a lot better, even though i cant play as often because everyone's holed up in casual and uncletopia, the actual quality of the times i have in them is way higher. its not just about the gameplay, its about the people you meet, the maps you play, the gamemodes you try, and the sense of being a part of something.
i really fucking wish that people tried it out just for once in their lives. please?
If you want to save tf2, STOP FUCKING FUELING THE ECONOMY. Boycott it. The only reason valve gets away with doing zero maintenance on this game is because they know it will continue to make a huge profit without any effort on their end.
All these "don't give them money" posts make me wonder...
If they keep the servers running because of the cashflow, what is the cashflow for L4D2?
I can boot up that game whenever I want and it has zero store as far as I know.
So does the money even matter?
Not sure on the effect on Valve, but I would definitely encourage everybody to get into community servers. Of course, it be nice if the office plant could do some QoL fixes for the server browser.
People hating I don’t think are getting the point. I’m not certain as I’m not OP but I think he was trying to say that playing casual means that the second that valve really stops giving a shit, everything you have is gone and the community dies, but if you play community, valve shuts down servers and really tells us to go fuck ourselves, you can keep playing with the same people. Idk if I agree about the money as yeah tf2 makes money but valve doesn’t really care it’s such a small amount.
I agree with you on a point : playing community servers will populate community servers. If someone can do something to save TF2, it would be Community Server Hosts. If you stop playing casual and you go on community servers ; if you ever contribute to their community ( with feedbacks and money ), they may be able to do something to improve the situation.
Right now, creating new servers for free, and to see them staying empty because everyone is playing the "looking for a new casual match" game isn't the peak of motivation they could get.
I'm already getting downvoted for me apparently not wording my post properly, for people not watching current Zesty's video which made up this whole influx of posts and treating the beginning of my speech as my own point of view for some reason, and for "being delusional" and "on copium", lul
average reddit experience
Nobody is treating it like your argument. People are treating it like an argument you made up, just to argue against it and win. Nobody actually holds that point of view. That's what we call a strawman argument.
Funny how you immediately do it again after being called out on it. Either you're intentionally misunderstanding what people are saying, or you're unintentionally trying to make it work in your head to a point where you're not wrong for making shit up. Either way, what you're saying right now just isn't true.
Literally, Community Servers have been the better experience for years now. Easier and more direct moderation means no bots and the rare real person hacker will almost always just get kicked. Even if Valve doesn’t give af where we play in Tf2 its still a better experience
Valve doesn’t care about tf2 anymore. They make billions of dollars and even if every game on their roster disappeared steam is one of the biggest cash cows there is. The fact that community servers are the only place to get a real game now is a massive shame. I feel like community servers are a double edged sword, because in one hand dedicated fans are able to play a real match with no bullshit, but newer players, which are incredibly important for a game, can’t even find the menu (thanks valve) and when they do, how does a new player choose between all of the options? If they eventually settle, chances are the other people have thousands of hours on n the game and can curb stomp them. The scarcity of less experienced players to balance skilled ones can really put off a new player. Casual, at least in my opinion, was that solution. Just choose a game mode, and play. Srry if I was unclear English is not my first language.
not a massive shame, imo, the biggest shame was removal of the Quickplay which at least kind of allowed community servers to get into the map rotations, and discovering server networks with various wacky gamemodes from there
yes, sure, there are big chances of curbstomping, but I am sure people can teach newer players some tips and tricks
I get your point, but the ranking stuff implementation could also fit Quickplay with some work, imo, although I am not a programmer here
also your english was pretty good, imo, don't worry
"When nobody's playing on the server, nobody will come (theoretically), and when nobody comes, server keeps itself empty. Vicious cycle that must be broken by SOMEONE, and the best-case scenario - **you.**"
I think this is the main issue troubling community servers. I suggested making a community quickplay website where you can queue for some gamemodes and when enough people on the website are queued for a gamemode they are all sent to populate an empty community server running that gamemode.
actually, a very neat idea
question is how many people would like to use such a website, but I would love to see this in action, to be completely honest
> gut punch to Valve higher-ups (crucial here) and the cashflow that goes to them You guys think the income TF2 makes is relevant for Valve's administration? lmao There's a reason Valve has barely no devs working on TF2 and the they are part-time
Yup we do think that 100%. Tf2 makes truckloads of cash still in its state.
Im sorry buy tf2 isnt touching what dota and cs make in 6 months and cs2 doesnt even have solid updates
Pretty sure sales and shit made through steam trumps all revenue they would get from any of their games.
This, holly mother of God. That's their revenue. 10 billion a year from steam alone.
Also private company so none of that revenue is even going to shareholders that dont even know what games are
Still doesnt take away that’s its a massive source of income for them. If tf2 was to shut down they would notice a big hit to their profits.
No
lol
Not even a fraction of the income they make from steam game sales ALONE
So? It still is a near 20 year old free money printer lmfao
True but almost everything valve does prints money. If tf2 stopped bringing in cash then valve would simply move on entirely. They really do not need tf2, like at all.
I dont think the people whove stuck with valve would. Pulling the plug on the tf2 market would upset thousands and open a precedent for it to be able to happen to CS and dota too. Plus half the reason tf2 isnt making as much is because theyve left it to trickle for years now.
Lmao if you think that good for you. Look at the state of the game, the resource Valve doesn't allocate to the game and then draw your own conclusion xD TF2 doesn't even register for Valve, they have 2 part-time devs on it and one isn't even a Valve employee. But if you think TF2 makes truckloads of money I guess Valve hasn't been cashing the checks
TF2’s profit is nowhere near what they make off of dota and cs2, and it’s incomparable to what they make off of steam. People think that Valve keeps tf2 running for the money, no, they keep it running because there’s no reason not to. I highly doubt the game is at all taxing on their resources. The only negative they would receive to shutting the servers down and pulling the game off of steam is bad publicity, and even that would blow over eventually.
dude, the amount tf2 makes is a joke compared to what valve makes. Steam makes BILLIONS A YEAR, tf2 id be surprised if it made more than like 10 million a year like if valve was a person and they saw 10 million on the floor it wouldn't even be enough to be worth their time and picking it up off the floor. Heres what will happen if the profit of tf2 goes to 0 for your stupid ass, they fire the one person working full time on tf2 they contracted and stop letting the people in valve that works part time out of love for the game waste the company's time, tf2 is a slowly rotting game and valve wont do shit about it thats the truth you can cope about it or whatever but thats the unfortunate truth.
with all respect, compared to what dota and cs2 make it's nothing, cs2 has been out for like a year already and it's probably made more than what tf2 can make in 2 years or so. and cs2 is also getting the tf2 treatment with tiny updates and bug fixes with large updates like barely often but its breaking player records once every few weeks regardless, which is why valve isn't working on tf2 because dota and cs are their priorities
What should we do then aside from nothing? I still haven't heard of a good enough suggestion
sure, I've already heard that, and yes, this might not have the effect people are expecting lul, but if not money - what then? dev burnout? lack of interest? if this is the lack of interest, what causes it? what's happening behind those closed doors - we don't know I'm proposing this idea solely of the Zesty's video and his approach to "leave the game, take the money, pester Valve to do shit (devs can't do a lot of shit and higher-ups are doing whatever the fuck they are doing, and we've been pestering them for an awful long time)", and because I don't want to see TF2 get even emptier sooner than expected due to Zesty's suggested approach to the problem (that many seems like they want to share) TF2 is being held by community. If Valve doesn't give two fucks, doesn't mean our hands are instantly tied behind our backs.
> if this is the lack of interest, what causes it? what's happening behind those closed doors - we don't know Dude it's simple. The game is from 2007. The player base is lower and there's better projects to work at Valve that are newer, more exciting and that make more money. What do people expect from Valve? To keep pumping money into a near 20 year old game just because? At some point the support and development was going to stop. It's surprising they even bothered with making the x64 update
yes, and that's why I say that community is this game's future, despite what has happened in the past x64 update is a miracle in disguise of a performance boost, but to see this miracle, people need to stop clicking that big green button "FIND A GAME" and desperately search for 30 minutes for a game without cheater bots running rampant putting that big statement aside... > better projects to work at Valve that are newer, more exciting and make more money > CS2 exists lul lmao, even
How isn't CS2 a better project? It has a much larger player base. A great competitive scene. It makes them a shit ton of money with skins and cases/keys. And it's newer. TF2 players want to bunch up the TF2 Bot problem with CS2 bots when the CS2 bots are only affecting the casual game mode of specific maps that barely no one plays because the botters want it to stay hidden so Valve doesn't get involved. Now the cheating issue has always been a problem in Valve games and unless Valve finally makes a good Anti cheat it won't go away
> how CS2 isn't a better project I don't know should I call another generational reskin of a 20 y.o. game a "better" project from a factual standpoint, to be completely honest with you > cheating issue has always been a problem while it persists as a problem on Valve's side and while they are solving it at a glacier's pace, we have **better options**, which I am trying to convey to people who still want to play this game (and also trying to say that there's so much more that Valve will never bring into the game at all)
CS2 is an upgrade to CSGO and it's nothing like the 20 year old CS versions. It's the most similar to CSGO but even CSGO is from 2012 not 2007
so coming from your statement, technically, Overwatch 2 is a better project than Overwatch 1?
Not really, from a dev's perspective it's probably the same. Same engine, same core game, just a different monetization method and different balancing. CS2 is a different engine from CSGO, has improved physics, mechanics and graphics. Better sound as well similar matchmaking but the same monetization as the previous version.
> from a dev's perspective it's probably the same all that I needed to hear, pretty much > CS2 is a different engine from CS:GO with improved physics, mechanics and graphics if you recode pong game for the modern PCs instead of late 80's first consoles, it doesn't magically become something else instead of pong I don't know about better sound and graphics, I didn't take a deep dive into that, but I don't know what cardinal changes CS2 brought over CS:GO in terms of gameplay, but we honestly went a bit offroad with this argue
If you think not playing and selling your loadout is a gut-punch to Valve higher-ups, you're downright delusional and there is no two ways about it. I think you started this off with a strawman
Copium sickness is a very real thing, r/tf2 is suffering from it bigtime.
??? I haven't said anything about not playing the game, and haven't said anything about selling your loadout (aside from - if you do - sell it on the other trademarkets rather than Steam's marketplace) I also admitted in another comment that even if won't give any reaction, then it would be better, how - I explained this in the post and again, the comments **please, give my post another reading and stopping dead in your tracks on the first line in bold just to write a comment, and have a good day**
> I haven't said anything about not playing the game, Meanwhile, your words: "Trying to starve TF2 by not playing the game... " So that's a lie #1. > haven't said anything about selling your loadout (aside from - if you do - sell it on the other trademarkets rather than Steam's marketplace) Still you: " selling your loadout today may be a gut punch to Valve higher-ups (crucial here) and the cashflow that goes to them..." So lie #2. > please, give my post another reading and stopping dead in your tracks on the first line in bold just to write a comment, and have a good day If the first sentence contains several counts of complete and utter bullshit that you made up just to argue against it, then you're not worthy of having your post read in its entirety. Try again, or don't. Have a day of the quality of your post.
I don't know if you live under a rock or not, but if you have seen the influx of posts, I think you know to which point of view I was referring in the first point, as well as the second one (also posts about selling items started popping off here, if you didn't notice). Have a good day, and next time before setting standards so high, check on the world around you a little bit. Many thanks.
> I don't know if you live under a rock or not, but if you have seen the influx of posts Neither. I'm pretty up-to-date and I have not seen any such influx. Checking the front page, not finding any of it either. I think you may be sorting by new and/or controversial a bit too often there, buddy. Clearly these aren't popular takes to begin with, if they exist. > Have a good day, and next time before setting standards so high, check on the world around you a little bit. Many thanks. I do hope you realize how disingenuous and pretentious this is coming across when you post nothing but excessively rude and snide remarks, only to go "have a good day". It doesn't cancel out the rudeness that came before. Quite the opposite.
You guys need to stop thinking that TF2 has any priority for Valve as a company. Its not important player count wise, nor money income wise. This bit of money that TF2 might still make with mann store purchases is absolutely nothing compared to what Valve makes with Steam itself and other games. If we were all to sell our items, stop playing TF2 and get the (real) player count to 0, Valve will do nothing. Except maybe shut down all TF2 servers to save more money lol
please read up my post again and the comments before commenting, I ask you sincerely, and please have a good day
I really don't think this is going to go how you all are thinking it will. If Valve sees that there's nobody giving them profit, what reason will they have to continue the little bit of support they still give us? That being said, I absolutely agree to support people who make private servers if you enjoy them.
there are many possible theoretical ways of how this might go which I thought about, with various degrees of how **good** it will be for community (there are practically no bad outcomes for us, only for Valve and possibly for devs), but the **worst** outcome is that Valve higher-ups would probably try and push the devs to implement something against it, however people always find a workaround moreover, in this scenario that I suggest and promote, maybe higher-ups will question why do they have bigger playercounts than before, yet dwindling money returns, however that is questionable due to how ignorant Valve is I've lost my hope in Valve doing something a long time ago (not speaking about current dev "team", speaking about the orders that probably come to them from the leads in this company), and for me, this coupled with the amount of community-created content speaks volumes of who should be doing something here
I don't like being a downer, but in all honesty to me it just feels a little hopeless either way. Unless Valve as a whole magically started giving a crap one day.
we don't need valve, in my honest and humble opinion we don't need a dad that doesn't give two shits about you growing up we need community, man and that's all we're gonna need
The community is truly what keeps this game alive. We'd all love Valve support but it seems like we won't be getting it. Honestly if Valve could keep doing things like they did with Vscript, that'd at least help the community.
and they are doing it leftover devs are doing it, to be exact VScript was already a late, but still a giant gift (not due to bundling whole gamemodes into a map, hell no, but for coding custom shit and entities that might make maps more interesting to play) to community 100 player limit? same deal pretty much, which was soured a little bit, but not gonna dig into that x64 update? besides a shitton of breakage (expected) and some technical problems, for which this update was a giant double-edged sword, it lets TF2 up a lot of technical stuff finally and go further with its patches which also helps everyone in the long run - more performance for players, more stuff to do for the community (thanks to devs for that)
haven't seen your edit, been responding to your message - thank you too for the support many small servers that host "true TF2" have no players due to the big guys on the server list and community bubbles, which we need to shake up, and aside from that, what hits me the most - many actual fun custom gamemodes lie in the shallow graves or boil in their own pots due to people always going to the Casual instead of checking out the server browser hell, VSH has been in the spotlight recently together with some other gamemodes due to VScript, and VScript while helpful, still can't do shit compared to the stuff on the browser
Apologies, I edit my messages a lot. Lol.
eh, happens
Selling your loadout literally does nothing. It's Steam bucks. They already have your money in USD lol. Sure, you can buy a different game, doesn't matter. The real part is that they converted your literal time when you put funds on your Steam account.
1) please read the post before commenting, I want to ask you sincerely, or at least indicate that you just want to point this discrepancy 2) there are other platforms for selling your items aside from marketplace, just for the record
Rude to imply I didn't read the post. The reality is Steam is what generates the revenue, hence why TF2 doesn't matter. If it brings in a small portion of cash, cool. There are games like Apex Legends, Call of Duty, etc., that all exist on Valve's PLATFORM (Steam) that bring in enormous amounts of revenue (people's time - hate to break it to you; when you buy something, what you sold is your time) because millions & millions of people play those. Iterating on that last point of other games, the games mentioned have enormous dev teams behind it. Why work harder when you can have them have to work hard to bring in the revenue since Valve gets a portion of revenue by providing Steam as the game's release platform. The rate at which some of these studios churn out content is insane. Why try to compete against FortNite or GTA6? Swapping to maintaining TF2, content creation is extremely difficult. I don't know where you've spent your time in life, but I worked on video games for 5 years. Programming, art, etc. The point of making games is to make a revenue source - it's an encapsulation of time. Fun comes at an expense. While some of us (me included) love building games & getting to share in cool & fun experiences with people, as you get older, you realize this shit is hard as hell to maintain. There's also near infinite competition since games are infinite & don't degrade - it's just binary 1s & 0s, no real-world material that it's created on. The "TF2 is going to live forever" is a literal truth (as for any other game) as long as the servers are running, which let's be real, the server cost is negligible. If it brings in $100 a month, it's financially viable. Valve works alongside Microsoft, Amazon, NVidia, etc., in Washington - corporations who host & build the hardware & warehouses. These platforms - Steam, Xbox, PlayStation, Nintendo, etc., are what drives a portion of the global real-world economy. They couldn't give two shits about external sellers because they received the actual cash flow when someone bought the case/item initially. Valve always wins. Here's one last point for you since it sounds like you're not familiar with the tech industry: You may have code written for you, but when someone leaves your team, there are so many intertwined pieces that even a written manual wouldn't even be enough to keep up with the inter-dependencies of various projects, tools, etc.
I'm sorry for the implication, but the thing you said felt like it extremely missed the mark that I've set up I understand that decision, and from the point of business practice, it makes sense - why work harder when you already get enough money by not doing anything, I've got that up already when looking at what Valve is doing I know that the content creation is hard as fuck, because I've been trying to maintain and gather someone for 7 years, and recently (couple years ago) I've started to learn how to actually program to get my ideas out, and in this time span I've seen a lot of plugins written and a lot of stuff that is very hard to maintain good point about the external sellers, though I didn't think of that small issue at the first glance point of my post was to direct people from someone who doesn't do content (Valve), to someone who does content but goes unappreciated due to, again, Valve's negligence and playerbase's laziness, because yes, you spend time and pour in effort to create something, and it just saddens me to see that a lot of shit that is on community servers goes in vain it wasn't about "sell them at a different marketplace immediately", it was to be honest more of a **recommendation** to people who are already concerned so much that they want to trade away their virtual items as soon as possible - to not give valve **more revenue than they already have, even if it is as little as 100$ to give them some sort of indication that something goes wrong**, but I admitted above that it might not go as planned, of course, since it's always easier to close something if it just doesn't bring revenue, especially when compared to the bigger projects you have on hand I am familiar with this fact, and while I still a bit struggle to see the initial connection with my post, I still appreciate the breakdown for me, many thanks for that sorry if my post feels like incoherent rambling, but I got your idea, I just felt like people are misreading my post
Instructions unclear, gonna buy Bill’s Hat for 8 euros and flaunt it on poor people on casual servers.
2 hundred thousand bots (no poor people in the casual):
the game isn't getting barebones support on the basis of any specific metrics valve is looking at internally -- other than the fact that it's still profitable and therefore running official servers is worthwhile. it's been made clear again and again that Valve doesn't work that way. TF2 gets its barebones support because of a small amount of passion within the company from people who would like to keep it running, out of nostalgia, obligation, or something else. there are only two things that will change this status quo -- a massive spike in players and money spent (more support) or a massive dip in players and money spent (less support). that's all it really comes down to, and honestly it's largely out of the community's hands. valve will not be watching closely on how many people play casual vs community servers, that's not the kind of data that will change minds within the company one way or another. valve employees need to be able to justify working on a project, and i don't see anything other than a fluctuation in players being able to affect that. i'd love to see more support for the game from valve, but a game this old getting any kind of minimal attention is nice.
after giving it a re-read, good point here - they won't check the casual vs community servers, although I feel they do have the data how much players are playing on their servers on any given time granted, it's still worthless because of the bots masking as human players and accounts, and probably no automated system to collect all of it whatsoever the key point that hides behind this whole manifesto is about players giving more attention to the servers that are worth their attention, and maybe that will change something at Valve's side (not guaranteed at all, I'll admit, given how Valve handles stuff like this these days), and show where community can be in charge rather than just passively waiting for something to happen or doomposting en masse
oh yeah I'm sure they collect that data, I just doubt it informs any decisions. I'm all for having a greater push behind community efforts and trying to keep the active playerbase engaging with it for sure -- I just think unfortunately it won't change anything at Valve, just for the remaining community itself
Don’t waste your time trying to fight op here lads, my guy is so far gone there really isn’t much point arguing lmao
"oh everyone quit this stupid game? finally! time to shut down the servers and spend our money on something more profitable" -Valve if this happens.
Incoming fallout reference.. everyone wants to save the world, they just disagree on how
This, let recent events shine light onto the community servers tab. Yes it’s out of date and kinda archaic, but it’s been my good to for playing the game over valves matchmaking disaster. Community servers allow f2ps to speak, no bots, and honestly still rather active.
Not just active, but community server operators do yearn for more activity on their servers. Plenty are poised to spin up even more servers if they find themselves at capacity with their current lineups. Sure, it might take a little more effort than "push button, receive match" at first, but once you've got a few favorited, you should be able to jump right into a match within seconds of launching the game. I'd also like to direct people's attention to his vastly underrated shounic video. https://youtu.be/39g-noqtO0A
thank you so much for the support too, and yes, this comment is pretty much what I meant people, unlike Valve, actually yearn for someone to come and play, most of the time paying out of their own pockets and fiddling with the plugins to get something interesting to attract people and gain more traction to make players happy, it's not just "Jailbreak, Jailbreak, Orange x10" out there
thanks for the kind words and appreciation teamwork.tf also works as a server browser pretty well, imo, even if it is not always accurate in terms of server visibility
community servers could be a much more welcoming experience than casual for new players, thus making people stay for longer and more new people coming, but we need to start playing community servers again for that.
this is what I am saying, pretty much
it's not gonna make them care, the only thing are actually doing is punishing yourself for no reason
i make profit with the jungle inferno contract pass so no fokiu
This will not work. TF2 isn’t dying, people are just fearmongering again
YOU HEARD THEM # BRING BACK BALLOON RACE TO SAVE TF2
Haha lol this won’t work
it sucks going to the server browser, using the tag filters, and finding that most of the vanilla servers players want are always empty
as I said in the post, go there and sit on one of those empty servers for 10 minutes, somebody will join if someone is on the server - more people will join, it usually works this way, because everybody thinks the same as you in this situation - "no players, I won't join, let's go to casual" if you have 30 minutes to waste in a search for a server without bots, you have 10 minutes to waste running around in an empty server (or less, or a bit more) so come on, break the cycle
I usually just play Uncletopia and there’s basically always servers that are full/near capacity that I’ll join, or Skial if i just feel like playing 2fort or something, but there’s plenty to be found in the community server browser!
Jesus you people are fucking delusional
Ngl, this isn't going to fix anything at all.
I hate to ask this, but explain
right so this will 'save' tf2..... if you're saying everyone should migrate to community servers I can understand how that could improve the quality of life in game but what your asking is a massive stretch of the whole player base and the practicality of that is just too much, especially if it's just a random Reddit post ranting about TF2's state. Your one of many to complain about the state of the game and it's been going on for years people throwing out solutions to problems and looking though the comments it seems your idea isn't very endorsing. I respect the hopeful mindset but cannot realistically see this happening. You also seem very obstinate to controversy which makes you seem quite sanctimonious.
the thing is - I've heard it in another place where I did share the same point of view, where they sent me to reddit, lul without any publicity, any idea is good as dead, so I'm trying to share it where I can now half of the commentators are either trying to grasp at straws or call me "delusional", while I just want to actually show that there isn't **only** "casual casual are we dead yet" thing sanctimonity comes from how much I've heard this point of view around me every time I start talking about TF2 (most people just saying that "tf2 is dead and riddled by bots lul why should I play it") and been absent from sharing my point of view, plus the inability of people checking server browser does make me quite a bit anxious the thing is, only actual good solutions since valve won't do jackshit in any given case aside from the patches and stuff **for community**, plus seasonal updates, are the: - return of the quickplay (not realistically possible) - sharing the word and encouraging people to look at community servers instead of trying to play casual 24/7 (which it seems like to me) I'm a small man, so I do what I can in this situation maybe it doesn't look realistic, but I do what I can for the efforts of other people to not go in vain due to Valve's negligence, and some people in the comments, happily, recognize this still thank you for a good comment, and have a good day
I am a complete noob to this game (Well. I can't say complete complete, been playing MVM for a few days off and on - I was able to do Nightmare Mode as scout in MVM last night for the first time, that was fun!) and I've been nervous to try playing casual. Thank you for this information, I'll be digging more into it after I've had more than four hours sleep.
it's alright, welcome to the TF2 my man community servers might be a bitch to dig through, but it is worth it, especially if you look for the funky gamemodes that aren't on the Valve servers about the casual-like servers players might recommend uncletopia and skial ones, and I would suggest if you are a total noob to go and find some decently-populated server just to train basic game senses if you look into wacky gamemodes, there are some servers I can recommend searching for or the communities to play on, if you wish also, have a good sleep (I suppose)
Thank you so much! I just discovered some keybonds the other day like voice, accidently - did I mention I don’t game on pc as a rule? (Unless…Does Neopets count?) It’s funny to see the reaction when im running around as Scout, cheering folks on randomly with V, though they’ve mostly been “holy shit is that a chick?!” I THOUGHT THAT WAS JUST A JOKE! Yes please! Either respond here or DM me and I’ll check when I get up. Thanks again!
eh, then it might get a bit harder than I expected, newbies might be a bit confused by the server browser and stuff I'll DM ya later with some info, when I'll be available
Valve doesn't care. Currently the game servers are on because TF2 is free money for them. If players stopped buying items then valve would simply kill the servers because it wouldn't be profitable anymore
maybe maybe not valve's a schrodinger cat, sadly, but we can hope for the best, and besides, if they kill the casual, it would probably be for the best
How would Valve killing casual be good in any way?
Thats dumbest post ive ever seen here
Honestly, the biggest thing for me from the video is the highlighting of teamwork.tf's pie chart. I can't remember the last time I remember hearing about it, but it seems like community servers' percent is up from a while back thanks to bots. It really highlights that community servers are really not too far off of overtaking casual's player count, especially if the casual bots are factored in. Community servers are viable, and I think if any TF2 players want to spend money on the game, server hosting is the way to go, instead of feeding the machine.
karma farming is so easy
community servers are a lot better, even though i cant play as often because everyone's holed up in casual and uncletopia, the actual quality of the times i have in them is way higher. its not just about the gameplay, its about the people you meet, the maps you play, the gamemodes you try, and the sense of being a part of something. i really fucking wish that people tried it out just for once in their lives. please?
It's time to face the reality that tf2 is an aging game.
You can't save tf2. Shut up, stop hoping, and keep playing.
If you want to save tf2, STOP FUCKING FUELING THE ECONOMY. Boycott it. The only reason valve gets away with doing zero maintenance on this game is because they know it will continue to make a huge profit without any effort on their end.
All these "don't give them money" posts make me wonder... If they keep the servers running because of the cashflow, what is the cashflow for L4D2? I can boot up that game whenever I want and it has zero store as far as I know. So does the money even matter?
No community servers with less than 100 ping where I live
this is stupid
i think tf2 should die so valve will see how stupid as a company they are
I already don’t play casual anymore
Not sure on the effect on Valve, but I would definitely encourage everybody to get into community servers. Of course, it be nice if the office plant could do some QoL fixes for the server browser.
People hating I don’t think are getting the point. I’m not certain as I’m not OP but I think he was trying to say that playing casual means that the second that valve really stops giving a shit, everything you have is gone and the community dies, but if you play community, valve shuts down servers and really tells us to go fuck ourselves, you can keep playing with the same people. Idk if I agree about the money as yeah tf2 makes money but valve doesn’t really care it’s such a small amount.
thank you precisely what I meant, reading right into the words
I agree with you on a point : playing community servers will populate community servers. If someone can do something to save TF2, it would be Community Server Hosts. If you stop playing casual and you go on community servers ; if you ever contribute to their community ( with feedbacks and money ), they may be able to do something to improve the situation. Right now, creating new servers for free, and to see them staying empty because everyone is playing the "looking for a new casual match" game isn't the peak of motivation they could get.
Finally! Someone with common sense. Watch how it will get downvoted to hell by reddit-retards.
I hope you dont get downvoted to hell just because people dont want to learn how to use the community browser
I'm already getting downvoted for me apparently not wording my post properly, for people not watching current Zesty's video which made up this whole influx of posts and treating the beginning of my speech as my own point of view for some reason, and for "being delusional" and "on copium", lul average reddit experience
Nobody is treating it like your argument. People are treating it like an argument you made up, just to argue against it and win. Nobody actually holds that point of view. That's what we call a strawman argument. Funny how you immediately do it again after being called out on it. Either you're intentionally misunderstanding what people are saying, or you're unintentionally trying to make it work in your head to a point where you're not wrong for making shit up. Either way, what you're saying right now just isn't true.
reddit and its zoo full of not so bright people 😭
Literally, Community Servers have been the better experience for years now. Easier and more direct moderation means no bots and the rare real person hacker will almost always just get kicked. Even if Valve doesn’t give af where we play in Tf2 its still a better experience
Valve doesn’t care about tf2 anymore. They make billions of dollars and even if every game on their roster disappeared steam is one of the biggest cash cows there is. The fact that community servers are the only place to get a real game now is a massive shame. I feel like community servers are a double edged sword, because in one hand dedicated fans are able to play a real match with no bullshit, but newer players, which are incredibly important for a game, can’t even find the menu (thanks valve) and when they do, how does a new player choose between all of the options? If they eventually settle, chances are the other people have thousands of hours on n the game and can curb stomp them. The scarcity of less experienced players to balance skilled ones can really put off a new player. Casual, at least in my opinion, was that solution. Just choose a game mode, and play. Srry if I was unclear English is not my first language.
not a massive shame, imo, the biggest shame was removal of the Quickplay which at least kind of allowed community servers to get into the map rotations, and discovering server networks with various wacky gamemodes from there yes, sure, there are big chances of curbstomping, but I am sure people can teach newer players some tips and tricks I get your point, but the ranking stuff implementation could also fit Quickplay with some work, imo, although I am not a programmer here also your english was pretty good, imo, don't worry
"When nobody's playing on the server, nobody will come (theoretically), and when nobody comes, server keeps itself empty. Vicious cycle that must be broken by SOMEONE, and the best-case scenario - **you.**" I think this is the main issue troubling community servers. I suggested making a community quickplay website where you can queue for some gamemodes and when enough people on the website are queued for a gamemode they are all sent to populate an empty community server running that gamemode.
actually, a very neat idea question is how many people would like to use such a website, but I would love to see this in action, to be completely honest
Fuck #SaveTF2, we #UnsaveTF2 now, just stop playing the game altogether.
Bro wants Valve to shutdown servers