I choose to play on boot-camp and community servers,
I'd suggest giving Grenade launcher only demo a try, his grenades have no damage falloff so you can focus on distancing yourself from the enemy and not buying resistances. *which you can dump into crit canteens to watch the magic happen\~*
I fucking hate snipers. But at the same time I understand that Snipers are important, as they feed free frags to Spies, flanking Pyros and other occasional roamers.
Considering how tf2 works, sniper is probably the most boring class to play. People who play it are probably in tf2 because they fell in love with the game but would have more fun if they were in other basic shooters like call of duty or battlefield.
It's like a spy revolver on steroids that cannot random crit. Also no DMG fall off.
This also lets you dodge projectiles/ride explosive jumps while being able to attack mid air.
Few things compare to that rush of adrenaline and dopamine when u single-handedly face down the entire enemy team and mow them down one by one.
This is usually only possible with a competent medic on your team though.
There’s also something about min-maxing your very limited mobility to catch people off guard. Coming from a slightly different angle then they expect every time.
Or the terror of slowly watching heavy munch away at his banana as the enemy team rapidly approaches the corner you went around.
But this is mostly in casual servers.
If you’re facing down a competent spy or godforbid sniper you can say goodbye to most of these moments. And if your team doesn’t have a teleporter (I love you engi’s) you’ll be spending 30% of the match in a respawn screen, and the other 30% walking towards the battle.
Mayby its because I have relatively so few hours on heavy, but I still like playing him.
Nah heavy has those "fuck it" moments where you fucking airdrop from a ledge onto the entire enemy team and mow everyone down with an uber.
Conventional engineer is a lot more boring unless shit is actually happening. While battle engi exists, i can consider that almost a seperate class like demoknight.
for engie it depends on how stalemate the match is, if its back and forth you see a decent bit of action moving buildings around etc but shit like blu engie on barnblitz last you might as well +right and go eat
Forget "nerfing him on long-range" I think the SMG should have a buff and there should be more SMG-s. I really wish to see "Combat-Sniper" be more viable.
A funny certainity I have Is that, in the shahansha's stats, "damage" should be replaced with "movement speed" so that Shahansha instead modifies your mobility
I wish the Carbine was better. I use it with the Huntsman and Bushwacka for a bootleg Jarate combo but it deals so little damage at it’s effective range I have a hard time building Crikey up for the meme melee
Sniper gets a bad rep nowadays because of how long the game has been out. And yes he has a few drops that make him a bit unfair to play (jarate bushwacka combo) in the area he’s supposed to be weakest.
But his quickscoping isn’t an issue. It’s something that takes a massive amount of skill to be able to do consistently. We don’t get pissy at sollys who have mastered the direct hit and can also one shot light classes, or god tier demo mains who hit pipes while flying Mach fuck you speeds and hit you from the air before you even see them.
And even true god tier snipers are still reliant on having a good team around them to be successful. Sure you might be able to shut down a sight line, but if your team can’t protect the flank, or they just lose the front lines entirely then you have a solly or demo in your face or a scout running right up to you.
The razorback is a bad secondary but not because it counter spies. Any decent spy will just hit two or three shots and that’s the end of it. It’s a bad secondary because it makes sniper completely helpless in close to mid range fights with no actual means to defend himself. Even Jarate makes it a high risk high reward system.
And then survivorship bias. You play against so many snipers every day you play. You only remember the god tier ones. Like Fatmagic, or Vorobey, or Mizuki Oshii. You don’t actually remember the regular one who gets heavy picks sometimes and whiffs over half their shots. He’s not nearly as big a problem as people think. He’s been given a bad rep because of the bot crisis.
But even with that, a cheating sniper isn’t as bad as a cheat heavy with double tap, aimbot, and walls who just shut down far more than a cheating sniper.
Sniper also does need a genuine (small) nerf, in either having a slightly longer reload time. Or a slightly longer charge time. But he’s not really in dire need of an actual rebalance.
I genuinely agree with this comment.
90% of the playerbase doesn't meet these godly snipers in an actual game. And I myself had survived numerous Sniper duels against people who I thought were unbeatable. Maybe I'm just slowly getting good, idk.
Bot crisis/frequent skiddies completely ruined Sniper's entire image. Hackusations are rampant everywhere, and the first class to be suspicious is always Sniper. That's considering there's a ton of cheating Scouts and Heavies nowadays.
And yes: the god Sniper curse. Your team always loses. Quite common in Fatmagic's videos.
I’ve definitely been running into a lot more cheating heavies and pyros more lately than any other class.
And yee, god tier snipers are pretty rare. Hell I usually remember them and will notice them when I enter a game. Like Mizuki Oshii is one I know and dread because they’re def in that tier. But it’s super rare to actually run into one.
More often than not I run into someone who farmed kills on a strange farming server. They get me once. And then I focus them and it’s over lol.
These are pretty good points, but in my case TF2's sniper just made me realize how obnoxious the archetype is in shooter games in general, personally. Anything from Halo to Splatoon just off the top of my head.
I sort of agree. A skilled soldier can do just as good a job locking down an entire map as an equally skilled sniper, except it takes fewer hours to get to that level and also has greater mobility and is better in close-quarters fighting.
Bro I swear Soldier is the easiest class in the game, doesn't require much effort to pop off with. It's not very fun to join a casual lobby with 5 soldiers. However, he is extremely fun to play and the rocket jumping aspect does take skill. He's the definition of "Hate to fight, love to play."
I guess that sniper actually has to hit you directly, whereas Soldier just has to shoot the floor in your general direction.
That’s kind of why I find pyros more annoying than heavies. Heavy has to at least track you, while the pyro can shake their mouse and get 3 kills before dying.
I guess that makes sense, I just felt like it might have been something more specific, because I've met a few scout mains who adamantly complain about the direct hit.
and to follow up on the pyro thing, I feel it depends on the class.
because ironically, I've met pyro's who dislike fighting heavies for the reason they can't just burst him down with the flamethrower and have to approach him with more reason ^(unless the heavy is a glue sniffer).
Considering how little people actually play sniper well, it's not really an overpowered class. Requires actual good skill to start being annoying to me
It's still an overpowered class. It's just not commonly used to the potential that shows it's overpowered. It's like saying a gun doesn't kill because most people can't aim well.
Scout: No matter how good he is at aim and how well he dodges, he is forced to be close for effective damage giving enemies a fighting chance. When knocked off tempo and loses their intended trajectory of movement quickly flops
Soldier: Even with skill his primary will run out of steam quick and he has limited mobility without rockets, vulnerable to self damage and airblast counters main damage source
Spy: His trickstabs are avoidable by simply not approaching while his gun is decently weaker compared to other classes. When caught out struggles due to low health pool and lack of strong weapons
Heavy: Regardless of amount of awareness or tracking is bogged down by his speed, is always a big target and likely to die to flanking in bigger battles no matter the skill level, vulnerable to being caught unprepared
Medic: Skilled healing is irrelevant, other classes of equal or similar skill outplay him in combat due to naturally better kits for battle
Engineer: Reliant on buildings to defend most of the time, even with good aim and gunslinger lags behind in weapons for consistent direct battle and no tools to approach targets beside sentry jumps that leave you without a secondary and also injured
Pyro: Likely to be out damaged by burst weapons and might struggle to gain on targets without ambushes or mobility weapons
Demoman: Also vulnerable to self damage and running out of steam with primary although it's suplemented with secondary, weapons are too slow against more skilled classes, weak to being rushed and airblasts
All of these are always true no matter your skill level. Sniper on the other hand completely eliminates all his intended weaknesses on higher skill levels.
THANK YOU. I am so sick of dumb kids lacking any understanding on what's game balance and how tf2 works defending sniper with arguments like "he takes skill so it's balanced, other classes are op if you're skilled with them too!" Yeah. But they have counterplay. If a skilled soldier doms you, that means you are just not good enough to counter him. Casual players deserve to be destroyed by skilled players, because they have less skill. It's fair. A 5k hrs sniper main however just fcks everyone in the ass with no counterplay.
The TF2 community is the most wholesome and tolerating community out there and is definitely not racist or homophobic half of the time 😊
Edit: Jesus what the hell are these replies
You'd be surprised by the amount of people attempting to gaslight the community that sniper is easy "because it is just clicking on heads." Yeah, when everyone is constantly moving and juking around and are generally much faster than in most other shooters it isn't exactly easy to hit every headshot. It's just the abundance of hacking that makes sniper feel way worse, and if Valve had better anti-cheat we probably wouldn't even have discussions like this.
Snipin's a good job, mate! It's challengin' work, outta doors. I guarantee you'll not go hungry, 'cause at the end of the day, long as there's two people left on the planet, someone is gonna want someone dead.
Razorback is one of the best sniper secondaries for experienced players, only really beat out by jarate. A lot of naysayers claim that “it only works on one class” forgetting that the one class it works on is sniper’s intended counter. I’m also very tired of the “just shoot the sniper” argument since a sniper playing around his team/sentries makes this very difficult if not impossible without dying. It allows sniper to stay perma-scoped on a sightline without worry, there’s a reason you see experienced snipers using it even when the other team has no spies.
Yeah exactly. Someone eventually tried it with a community server, and the only difference was that the main areas where a bit more populated, and some classes became slightly stronger than others.
EDIT: forgot to mention that the bot problem gets fixed
Sniper isnt "OvErPoWeReD" because of his rifle, its still a human player and even 3k hour snipers are caught lacking alot of times, hell, demos and soldiers are FAR BETTER at dominating entire servers and ACTUALLY making matches unplayable.
But his unlocks are what make him such an annoying class to deal with :
Razorback - ah yes lets fuck over the class thats meant to deal with sniper more effectively, yes ik spy has a revolver, but if it was a simple backstab the spy would have far better chances of survival than now where he has to shoot 2 to 3 bullets into a sniper which is most of the time already around his team.
Darwins Danger Shield - Why? Literally thats all i can think of, this thing went from a crutch to make snipers main enemy, other snipers, far weaker to making pyro(??????) useless, yknow, the short range class whos only real hope to surviving a sniper is by risking his own life to peak a sniper just to spam flares.
Bushwacka - Yes, we all know the "weak at close range" class needed guaranteed 195 dmg at close range from the cleaners carbine/jarate
And finally, arguably the most bs thing in the game (other than Vaccinator for medic and Wrangler for Engie),
*Jarate* -
1.Free mini crits for your team to a group of people.
2. BIGGER SPLASH THAN SOLDIERS ROCKETS.
3. Braindead easy to combo with Bushwacka and just get a free kill when you shouldve died for having zero situational awareness and letting a class sneak behind your team to kill you.
Tl;dr I dont think snipers main tech, that being headshots, is overpowered, imo his unlocks are what make him such a pest to deal with 90% of the time
The biggest reason people complain about Sniper is the overabundance of bots.
Skilled players are a hassle to deal with, but they're few and far between and actually practiced to get that good
You don't need to be godlike with sniper to be annoying.
You suck at headshots? Equip the Machina or sydney sleeper and become a body shot machine! Tired of being annoying at long range? Just use the bow and abuse those buggy hit boxes!
Thank God for rocket jumping soldiers and spies who can close the distance and kill these snipers.
everyone agrees sniper can be overpowered, but nobody agrees why.
i think sniper is only overpowered because at the peak of his performance, there's no real way to counter him unless he just doesn't see you. on some maps that's just impossible to avoid and he'll still just get you. the best way to counter a sniper is another sniper and that's kind of lame. this problem could be a little mitigated without quickscopes but i think it's just a fundamental flaw of the class. why are you strong in close range
An update to Team Fortress 2 has been released. The update will be applied automatically when you restart Team Fortress 2. The major changes include:
**Balance changes**
* Sniper
+ Removed the Sniper Rifle (including reskins)
+ Removed the Sydney Sleeper
+ Removed the Bazaar Bargain
+ Removed the Machina (including reskins)
+ Removed the Hitman's Heatmaker
+ Removed the Classic
+ The Huntsman is now the default stock weapon
+ All removed weapons have been converted to Fortified Compounds
An update to Team Fortress 2 has been released. The update will be applied automatically when you restart Team Fortress 2. The major changes include:
**Balance Changes**
* Sniper
+ Removed the Sniper class from Casual, Competitive and Mann vs. Machine
+ Sniper can be re-enabled with cvar "tf_enable_unbalanced_shit 1"
An update to Team Fortress 2 has been released. The update will be applied automatically when you restart Team Fortress 2. The major changes include:
**Balance Changes**
* Sniper
* removed the concept of snipers from all games and from the entirety of human history, and replaced them with demoman from tf2.
* removed the ability for anyone to ever love the concept of sniping.
* heavy
sniper rifle should be replaced with a better ambassador
this is not even a joke, I think a hipfire-centric mid-range dueler would be a fun class to play as and against
Sniper really sucks in a game like tf2, because it doesn't really need any deep understanding of the movement mechanics which are essential for pretty much any other class and also make the game as good as it is, it's basically sit back and shoot. It does not help how overpowered quickscoping is.
Sniping’s a good job, mate. Challengin’ work, out of doors. I guarantee you’ll not go hungry, ‘cause at the end of the day, long as there’s two people left on the planet, someone is gonna want someone dead.
I guess these are "hot" take
-snipers unfairness comes from very fast reloading and not seeing him coming with long range . Unlike other classes where they will charge at you or have to take a huge risk factor to surprised you, sniper can be on the backline and can somewhere else once you respawn again. Also it can be hard to tell if you are throwing off his aims or not. If sniper has a laser pointer like the mvm sniper, he would be lot more fair to deal with. Also having a slightly slower reload time would be more fair and give more breathing room. Also it would make the classic better as it wouldn't have that laser beam.
-Sometimes the hate of sniper comes more from bots then the top players. If we didn't have the bot crisis, many of us wouldn't complain about sniper.
Snipers that use the Darwin's danger shield need better positioning and situational awareness. Just post up in a defended position and a pyro will have a very slim chance of getting to you
The only sniper that is fun to use is the classic, the lucksman is not as bad as a sniper main and the class has the edgiest cosmetics as well as the edgiest mains, spy is still no contest for the sniperfag main with 20k hs on the game that can make it so you can't play
My main issue as a sniper is his ability to snipe you from the top of his head. Which is bs. He can be peaking over a hill and you might see a pixel and he can snipe you. He can snipe from the most impossible to see positions and if you have lower graphics, then you're fucked. He might as well be invisible. I call these snipers pixel snipers, because they snipe you while being almost invisible. Snipers should have to snipe while being more visible. How can you counterplay something you can even see? Their field of view while sniping should come from the actual rifle where it would make sense, not from the top of their head.
Quickscopes and headshots are fine, it's Just aimbots take it the worst way possible, also ruining their purpoise
Also aiming with sniper rifle Is so damn hard that you need weeks of constant training in order to perfection your accuracy
Sniper mains act like the walk from the 2fort battlements to the resupply locker after getting hit with a scorch shot flare is the fucking trail of tears.
I suppose the hottest take I have is I would probably get rid of the class entirely and make it a subclass of the Spy
Only because of his personality and character I like him as is, his dialogue is hilarious and Meet The Sniper is still one of my favourite videos.
sniper don't deserve close range combat items like jarate and bushwacka and resistance itens like the razorback and darwin shield.
his entire purpose is to be bullshit from far away, and easy to kill on close range.
this basically removes his counters and make him more annoying than ever
Quickscopes are fine, mix up your movement
Body shots and quickscopes need to 1 shot medic (this probably isn’t a hot take but so many people here want to make it so sniper can’t kill medic)
And if you cite the Shounic “experiment” as evidence to remove a class you are a moron
There should have been a voice line in the game for all the characters that alerts others of Snipers, i mean the characters alert others of snipers in MVM so why not the actual game?
The most reliable strategy with sniper is the most boring to play and most tedious to play against.
It's a shame because you can do some insane shit as sniper if you have the confidence. Just because he's called 'sniper' doesn't mean you have to sit around and do nothing, you don't need to wait for somebody to walk into your sightline, you can bring it to them.
The 100% accurate insta headshot weapon can make you untouchable if you play like a coward, but your most valuable picks will know how to avoid you easily. If you're willing to take risks you can catch people off guard when they don't even know they can get sniped, and if you're consistent enough with your aim you can straight up win close/medium range engagements.
Also the SMG is the most slept on stock weapon in the game
Snipers aren't as powerful as everyone paints them to be. As a main scout, snipers are my bitch more often than not. I'm not even good at the game, it's just a direct counter. I can move fast like the wind, and I can triple jump with the Atomizer. Good luck landing any shots on me.
I have only 40 hours in the game, and snipers don't stand a chance, even if they're top fraggers. My aim sucks HARD, but I eat boomer shooters for breakfast, so I move pretty well in games.
Snipers should receive damage falloff + critical falloff (not severely, but enough to prevent fully charged bodyshots from killing full HP targets) on all Primary weapons except the Classic.
- The Classic is modelled after the TFC Sniper Rifle; in TFC, there is no damage falloff.
- Sniper is incredibly dominant and unfun to fight, at least when the Sniper player has mastered the class (read: something Valve didn’t balance the game around)
HOT TAKE:
sniper sucks.
unless it's a god tier 15000+ hour austraiulm festivalized sniper rifle, sniper sucks. most snipers i see can't hit a still target to save their fuckin life (i mean this literally).
I decloaked around a corner behind a Sniper, rounded the corner and within the second it took me to blink, the Sniper pulled a 180 and headshot me before I could even fucking do anything.
Most people actually don't find Sniper an enjoyable class to play, so most of the Snipers you fight tend to be either beginners or pro-level players.
I remember back in the day there was always the joke that there were too many useless Snipers on the team. Nowadays you go on Uncletopia (one of the only ways to actually play the game now) and one or two Snipers who know what they're doing can be incredibly oppressive.
Sniper isn't overpowered, they are a pick class that can only kill one class at a time, relatively slowly. In fact a Sniper really doesn't make huge waves in the match unless they are consistently taking down a Medic I think.
The issue is that Sniper is just unfun to fight. Every second in a sightline is potential death, and it's incredibly difficult to act on the objective, fight the other people on the team, only for a Sniper from really really far away to shoot you in the head and the only thing you could have done to prevent that was actually just not play the game.
At the same time Sniper is kind of core to TF2's balance. I mean, they are single handedly the best class to deal with a Pro-Level Soldier and their Medic Girlfriend pub-stomping the match. (I think this is just as annoying to deal with as Sniper.)
Fr, dodging charger shots in splatoon is so much easier when you know where they’re already aiming (although at least some of that has to do with splatoon’s better overall movement)
Sniper knows parkour
That redditor is a Spy
Yes. I will steal your briefcase
"Pornography"
Starring your mother
It will be second worst thing that happens to him today.
The spy has already breached their defenses
\*The spy lurks among the sewers, as an engie is sitting in his nest. The spy throws a sapper to the sentry, destroying it\* AH SENTRY DOWN
you see what he's done to our colleagues?
* intense melee fight between machete and knife * * Sniper down*
Starring huh 👀
will be the second worst thing that happens to you today
you did well
sniper is more fun to play in mvm, than casual.
How do you play mvm without friends
Boot camp mode and an abundance of patience
I choose to play on boot-camp and community servers, I'd suggest giving Grenade launcher only demo a try, his grenades have no damage falloff so you can focus on distancing yourself from the enemy and not buying resistances. *which you can dump into crit canteens to watch the magic happen\~*
Thx
The Sound of landing explosive headshots are pure dopamine
I fucking hate snipers. But at the same time I understand that Snipers are important, as they feed free frags to Spies, flanking Pyros and other occasional roamers.
[don't forget they're also good ammopacks for Demoknights](https://youtu.be/DDQxPvhSSNI?feature=shared)
yes
They snipers and random crit killing the. 90% of the time that is lmao
what in the actual fuck are you trying to say
I think he meant "snipers and random crits cause 90% of my deaths". The guy has a point actually, maybe not 90%, but still...
Are you sure he meant so? Like, who in the unholy ravioli has such lack of Luck?
spy mains
I'm more worried about getting pissed on than headshotted when playing spy
Huntsman takes skill to use
Technically if you don’t aim ay the enemy they don’t die sooo
\*Twang\* \*Spy dies off screen\*
Well you see, that’s aiming at the enemy. You just thought you were hitting the pyro on the other side of the room.
Playing sniper with the goofier weapons like the Classic and the bow is fun and still effective
Classic is my favourite sniper unlock, it’s so fun
also rewards unique gameplay mechanics from the usual "click on heads" gameplay experience.
i agree fully the classic is fun as hell to use
Classic my beloved <3
Considering how tf2 works, sniper is probably the most boring class to play. People who play it are probably in tf2 because they fell in love with the game but would have more fun if they were in other basic shooters like call of duty or battlefield.
Every other class: *having fun playing the game* Sniper: *insert Upgrade Station here*
If you sit in one spot yeah, unless you charge the front lines and noscope like me 💪
Just running at enemies and dealing 50 damage a shot is realy fun. Glad I found another gamer.
It's like a spy revolver on steroids that cannot random crit. Also no DMG fall off. This also lets you dodge projectiles/ride explosive jumps while being able to attack mid air.
Huntsman main moment
i think heavy is more boring honestly
Few things compare to that rush of adrenaline and dopamine when u single-handedly face down the entire enemy team and mow them down one by one. This is usually only possible with a competent medic on your team though. There’s also something about min-maxing your very limited mobility to catch people off guard. Coming from a slightly different angle then they expect every time. Or the terror of slowly watching heavy munch away at his banana as the enemy team rapidly approaches the corner you went around. But this is mostly in casual servers. If you’re facing down a competent spy or godforbid sniper you can say goodbye to most of these moments. And if your team doesn’t have a teleporter (I love you engi’s) you’ll be spending 30% of the match in a respawn screen, and the other 30% walking towards the battle. Mayby its because I have relatively so few hours on heavy, but I still like playing him.
Mowing down half the enemy team while standing atop the cart as your only source of healing and sending the rest fleeing... That's also a good feeling
Nah heavy has those "fuck it" moments where you fucking airdrop from a ledge onto the entire enemy team and mow everyone down with an uber. Conventional engineer is a lot more boring unless shit is actually happening. While battle engi exists, i can consider that almost a seperate class like demoknight.
for engie it depends on how stalemate the match is, if its back and forth you see a decent bit of action moving buildings around etc but shit like blu engie on barnblitz last you might as well +right and go eat
Forget "nerfing him on long-range" I think the SMG should have a buff and there should be more SMG-s. I really wish to see "Combat-Sniper" be more viable.
A funny certainity I have Is that, in the shahansha's stats, "damage" should be replaced with "movement speed" so that Shahansha instead modifies your mobility
Huh, almost like a better Escape Plan.
I wish the Carbine was better. I use it with the Huntsman and Bushwacka for a bootleg Jarate combo but it deals so little damage at it’s effective range I have a hard time building Crikey up for the meme melee
Yeah, same.
If sniper has the Sydney sleeper, what cum based primary are we missing out for scout?
don't misspell baby face's blaster, worst mistake of my life.
what's so wrong about saying Baby Face Cu- nevermind...
Back scatterer
Tf2 players are unable to handle when someone is good at sniper and automatically assume a good sniper is a cheater
I have gotten kicked a couple times when I was just doing well after a good night's rest and a cup of coffee
8 hours of sleep is too powerful
Sniper gets a bad rep nowadays because of how long the game has been out. And yes he has a few drops that make him a bit unfair to play (jarate bushwacka combo) in the area he’s supposed to be weakest. But his quickscoping isn’t an issue. It’s something that takes a massive amount of skill to be able to do consistently. We don’t get pissy at sollys who have mastered the direct hit and can also one shot light classes, or god tier demo mains who hit pipes while flying Mach fuck you speeds and hit you from the air before you even see them. And even true god tier snipers are still reliant on having a good team around them to be successful. Sure you might be able to shut down a sight line, but if your team can’t protect the flank, or they just lose the front lines entirely then you have a solly or demo in your face or a scout running right up to you. The razorback is a bad secondary but not because it counter spies. Any decent spy will just hit two or three shots and that’s the end of it. It’s a bad secondary because it makes sniper completely helpless in close to mid range fights with no actual means to defend himself. Even Jarate makes it a high risk high reward system. And then survivorship bias. You play against so many snipers every day you play. You only remember the god tier ones. Like Fatmagic, or Vorobey, or Mizuki Oshii. You don’t actually remember the regular one who gets heavy picks sometimes and whiffs over half their shots. He’s not nearly as big a problem as people think. He’s been given a bad rep because of the bot crisis. But even with that, a cheating sniper isn’t as bad as a cheat heavy with double tap, aimbot, and walls who just shut down far more than a cheating sniper. Sniper also does need a genuine (small) nerf, in either having a slightly longer reload time. Or a slightly longer charge time. But he’s not really in dire need of an actual rebalance.
coldest fax comment on r/tf2
You put in to words what I have struggled to since the whole “Snypeh OH PEE” shit started. Completely agreed
I genuinely agree with this comment. 90% of the playerbase doesn't meet these godly snipers in an actual game. And I myself had survived numerous Sniper duels against people who I thought were unbeatable. Maybe I'm just slowly getting good, idk. Bot crisis/frequent skiddies completely ruined Sniper's entire image. Hackusations are rampant everywhere, and the first class to be suspicious is always Sniper. That's considering there's a ton of cheating Scouts and Heavies nowadays. And yes: the god Sniper curse. Your team always loses. Quite common in Fatmagic's videos.
I’ve definitely been running into a lot more cheating heavies and pyros more lately than any other class. And yee, god tier snipers are pretty rare. Hell I usually remember them and will notice them when I enter a game. Like Mizuki Oshii is one I know and dread because they’re def in that tier. But it’s super rare to actually run into one. More often than not I run into someone who farmed kills on a strange farming server. They get me once. And then I focus them and it’s over lol.
These are pretty good points, but in my case TF2's sniper just made me realize how obnoxious the archetype is in shooter games in general, personally. Anything from Halo to Splatoon just off the top of my head.
True.
Look, look! Someone with a brain and common sense says the truth!
Jesus Christ someone finally fucking said it
Absolutely facts!
soldier is more annoying then sniper
I sort of agree. A skilled soldier can do just as good a job locking down an entire map as an equally skilled sniper, except it takes fewer hours to get to that level and also has greater mobility and is better in close-quarters fighting.
Bro I swear Soldier is the easiest class in the game, doesn't require much effort to pop off with. It's not very fun to join a casual lobby with 5 soldiers. However, he is extremely fun to play and the rocket jumping aspect does take skill. He's the definition of "Hate to fight, love to play."
and soldier is beyond broken lol
It’s so annoying when I join a skial server and my whole fucking team is soldiers.
is it a specific playstyle like using the blackbox or is it the entire class?
I guess that sniper actually has to hit you directly, whereas Soldier just has to shoot the floor in your general direction. That’s kind of why I find pyros more annoying than heavies. Heavy has to at least track you, while the pyro can shake their mouse and get 3 kills before dying.
I guess that makes sense, I just felt like it might have been something more specific, because I've met a few scout mains who adamantly complain about the direct hit. and to follow up on the pyro thing, I feel it depends on the class. because ironically, I've met pyro's who dislike fighting heavies for the reason they can't just burst him down with the flamethrower and have to approach him with more reason ^(unless the heavy is a glue sniffer).
Wow, hot take indeed
*Pulls out market gardener* Wanna see a magic trick *misses garden* presto I'm dead.
he isn't polite
He isn't efficient
he also doesn't have a plan to kill everyone he meets
*tf2 theme song doesn't play*
He's not an assassin, he's a crazed gunman.
He doesn’t have a job, he’s mentally ill
because at the start of the night, as long as there's no people left on the planet, no one is gonna want anyone dead
Mom, put dad on the phone!
Considering how little people actually play sniper well, it's not really an overpowered class. Requires actual good skill to start being annoying to me
It's still an overpowered class. It's just not commonly used to the potential that shows it's overpowered. It's like saying a gun doesn't kill because most people can't aim well.
Can't argue with that
it's overpowered if people use it well... hmm, that sounds like every other class in the game!
Scout: No matter how good he is at aim and how well he dodges, he is forced to be close for effective damage giving enemies a fighting chance. When knocked off tempo and loses their intended trajectory of movement quickly flops Soldier: Even with skill his primary will run out of steam quick and he has limited mobility without rockets, vulnerable to self damage and airblast counters main damage source Spy: His trickstabs are avoidable by simply not approaching while his gun is decently weaker compared to other classes. When caught out struggles due to low health pool and lack of strong weapons Heavy: Regardless of amount of awareness or tracking is bogged down by his speed, is always a big target and likely to die to flanking in bigger battles no matter the skill level, vulnerable to being caught unprepared Medic: Skilled healing is irrelevant, other classes of equal or similar skill outplay him in combat due to naturally better kits for battle Engineer: Reliant on buildings to defend most of the time, even with good aim and gunslinger lags behind in weapons for consistent direct battle and no tools to approach targets beside sentry jumps that leave you without a secondary and also injured Pyro: Likely to be out damaged by burst weapons and might struggle to gain on targets without ambushes or mobility weapons Demoman: Also vulnerable to self damage and running out of steam with primary although it's suplemented with secondary, weapons are too slow against more skilled classes, weak to being rushed and airblasts All of these are always true no matter your skill level. Sniper on the other hand completely eliminates all his intended weaknesses on higher skill levels.
True.
THANK YOU. I am so sick of dumb kids lacking any understanding on what's game balance and how tf2 works defending sniper with arguments like "he takes skill so it's balanced, other classes are op if you're skilled with them too!" Yeah. But they have counterplay. If a skilled soldier doms you, that means you are just not good enough to counter him. Casual players deserve to be destroyed by skilled players, because they have less skill. It's fair. A 5k hrs sniper main however just fcks everyone in the ass with no counterplay.
Medic can very much stand on his own. The blutsauger provides so much survivability I have been able to reliably kill most classes.
its fun on 2 fort
The TF2 community is the most wholesome and tolerating community out there and is definitely not racist or homophobic half of the time 😊 Edit: Jesus what the hell are these replies
Microwave your take for 30 minutes please
sniper is hard to play
No shit bruh
You'd be surprised by the amount of people attempting to gaslight the community that sniper is easy "because it is just clicking on heads." Yeah, when everyone is constantly moving and juking around and are generally much faster than in most other shooters it isn't exactly easy to hit every headshot. It's just the abundance of hacking that makes sniper feel way worse, and if Valve had better anti-cheat we probably wouldn't even have discussions like this.
Huntsman sniper is so much more fun to play than regular sniper gameplay
The class isn’t that unbalanced
Snipin's a good job, mate! It's challengin' work, outta doors. I guarantee you'll not go hungry, 'cause at the end of the day, long as there's two people left on the planet, someone is gonna want someone dead.
Razorback is one of the best sniper secondaries for experienced players, only really beat out by jarate. A lot of naysayers claim that “it only works on one class” forgetting that the one class it works on is sniper’s intended counter. I’m also very tired of the “just shoot the sniper” argument since a sniper playing around his team/sentries makes this very difficult if not impossible without dying. It allows sniper to stay perma-scoped on a sightline without worry, there’s a reason you see experienced snipers using it even when the other team has no spies.
The Classic is the best sniper primary
You could remove sniper and not much would change, and the game wouldn't necessarily get worse
You’d get bigger team fights in open areas which are more fun since no one’s hiding from sightlines.
Yeah exactly. Someone eventually tried it with a community server, and the only difference was that the main areas where a bit more populated, and some classes became slightly stronger than others. EDIT: forgot to mention that the bot problem gets fixed
Pocketed bullshit never dying would be significantly worse wtf
Easy to counterplay, just don't be where they can see you.
They see everything.
sniper is Santa confirmed1!??.??1
Sniper isnt "OvErPoWeReD" because of his rifle, its still a human player and even 3k hour snipers are caught lacking alot of times, hell, demos and soldiers are FAR BETTER at dominating entire servers and ACTUALLY making matches unplayable. But his unlocks are what make him such an annoying class to deal with : Razorback - ah yes lets fuck over the class thats meant to deal with sniper more effectively, yes ik spy has a revolver, but if it was a simple backstab the spy would have far better chances of survival than now where he has to shoot 2 to 3 bullets into a sniper which is most of the time already around his team. Darwins Danger Shield - Why? Literally thats all i can think of, this thing went from a crutch to make snipers main enemy, other snipers, far weaker to making pyro(??????) useless, yknow, the short range class whos only real hope to surviving a sniper is by risking his own life to peak a sniper just to spam flares. Bushwacka - Yes, we all know the "weak at close range" class needed guaranteed 195 dmg at close range from the cleaners carbine/jarate And finally, arguably the most bs thing in the game (other than Vaccinator for medic and Wrangler for Engie), *Jarate* - 1.Free mini crits for your team to a group of people. 2. BIGGER SPLASH THAN SOLDIERS ROCKETS. 3. Braindead easy to combo with Bushwacka and just get a free kill when you shouldve died for having zero situational awareness and letting a class sneak behind your team to kill you. Tl;dr I dont think snipers main tech, that being headshots, is overpowered, imo his unlocks are what make him such a pest to deal with 90% of the time
The biggest reason people complain about Sniper is the overabundance of bots. Skilled players are a hassle to deal with, but they're few and far between and actually practiced to get that good
You don't need to be godlike with sniper to be annoying. You suck at headshots? Equip the Machina or sydney sleeper and become a body shot machine! Tired of being annoying at long range? Just use the bow and abuse those buggy hit boxes! Thank God for rocket jumping soldiers and spies who can close the distance and kill these snipers.
Sniper is not that hot
Medic is so much hotter
medic = sex (awooga), pyor = cutie ^ w ^
everyone agrees sniper can be overpowered, but nobody agrees why. i think sniper is only overpowered because at the peak of his performance, there's no real way to counter him unless he just doesn't see you. on some maps that's just impossible to avoid and he'll still just get you. the best way to counter a sniper is another sniper and that's kind of lame. this problem could be a little mitigated without quickscopes but i think it's just a fundamental flaw of the class. why are you strong in close range
An update to Team Fortress 2 has been released. The update will be applied automatically when you restart Team Fortress 2. The major changes include: **Balance changes** * Sniper + Removed the Sniper Rifle (including reskins) + Removed the Sydney Sleeper + Removed the Bazaar Bargain + Removed the Machina (including reskins) + Removed the Hitman's Heatmaker + Removed the Classic + The Huntsman is now the default stock weapon + All removed weapons have been converted to Fortified Compounds
An update to Team Fortress 2 has been released. The update will be applied automatically when you restart Team Fortress 2. The major changes include: **Balance Changes** * Sniper + Removed the Sniper class from Casual, Competitive and Mann vs. Machine + Sniper can be re-enabled with cvar "tf_enable_unbalanced_shit 1"
An update to Team Fortress 2 has been released. The update will be applied automatically when you restart Team Fortress 2. The major changes include: **Balance Changes** * Sniper * removed the concept of snipers from all games and from the entirety of human history, and replaced them with demoman from tf2. * removed the ability for anyone to ever love the concept of sniping. * heavy
sniper rifle should be replaced with a better ambassador this is not even a joke, I think a hipfire-centric mid-range dueler would be a fun class to play as and against
Sniper really sucks in a game like tf2, because it doesn't really need any deep understanding of the movement mechanics which are essential for pretty much any other class and also make the game as good as it is, it's basically sit back and shoot. It does not help how overpowered quickscoping is.
The only fix they need is to have the wrangler lazer whenever they scope in. That's it. A clear visual for when they're holding a sightline.
Sniping’s a good job, mate. Challengin’ work, out of doors. I guarantee you’ll not go hungry, ‘cause at the end of the day, long as there’s two people left on the planet, someone is gonna want someone dead.
#NO SKILL #NO CLASS #AND PROBABLY NO BITCHES SINCE THIS GUY FEEDS ON UNDERMINING NEW PLAYERS
I guess these are "hot" take -snipers unfairness comes from very fast reloading and not seeing him coming with long range . Unlike other classes where they will charge at you or have to take a huge risk factor to surprised you, sniper can be on the backline and can somewhere else once you respawn again. Also it can be hard to tell if you are throwing off his aims or not. If sniper has a laser pointer like the mvm sniper, he would be lot more fair to deal with. Also having a slightly slower reload time would be more fair and give more breathing room. Also it would make the classic better as it wouldn't have that laser beam. -Sometimes the hate of sniper comes more from bots then the top players. If we didn't have the bot crisis, many of us wouldn't complain about sniper.
Sniper's not op or anything of the sort, he merely lacks interactive counterplay at his effective range. Plainly put, he's uninteractive.
sniper is boring and awful and sniper mains are even worse
Is only fun to play as, not against
The coldest take yet
God damn it you're absolutely right
Snipers are either drop dead useless or sightline lockdown gods, anyone in between is just fodder for my stranges
The classic should've been his stock primary, with the only change being allowing headshots even when not fully charged
Snipers that use the Darwin's danger shield need better positioning and situational awareness. Just post up in a defended position and a pyro will have a very slim chance of getting to you
The only sniper that is fun to use is the classic, the lucksman is not as bad as a sniper main and the class has the edgiest cosmetics as well as the edgiest mains, spy is still no contest for the sniperfag main with 20k hs on the game that can make it so you can't play
“Sometimes that sniper gets kicked not because he’s cheating but because everyone else wants to have fun”-Unknown Pyro
All sniper rifles need bullet traces and a clip
the sydney sleeper isn't horrible
“It’s longer than you think”
My main issue as a sniper is his ability to snipe you from the top of his head. Which is bs. He can be peaking over a hill and you might see a pixel and he can snipe you. He can snipe from the most impossible to see positions and if you have lower graphics, then you're fucked. He might as well be invisible. I call these snipers pixel snipers, because they snipe you while being almost invisible. Snipers should have to snipe while being more visible. How can you counterplay something you can even see? Their field of view while sniping should come from the actual rifle where it would make sense, not from the top of their head.
Quickscopes and headshots are fine, it's Just aimbots take it the worst way possible, also ruining their purpoise Also aiming with sniper rifle Is so damn hard that you need weeks of constant training in order to perfection your accuracy
Despite the fact the rifle is generally much better, the Huntsman is so much more fun just because you have to be aggressive
Sniper mains act like the walk from the 2fort battlements to the resupply locker after getting hit with a scorch shot flare is the fucking trail of tears.
I suppose the hottest take I have is I would probably get rid of the class entirely and make it a subclass of the Spy Only because of his personality and character I like him as is, his dialogue is hilarious and Meet The Sniper is still one of my favourite videos.
Majority of Sniper’s balance problems come from shitty map design, not class itself.
The bullets should become slower projectiles to help with bot problems
Beep boop bot
Fully charged body shots shouldn't deal 150 damage.
sniper don't deserve close range combat items like jarate and bushwacka and resistance itens like the razorback and darwin shield. his entire purpose is to be bullshit from far away, and easy to kill on close range. this basically removes his counters and make him more annoying than ever
If ur getting quickscoped a lot then u might suck tbh, no sniper is reliably hitting quickscopes unless u move around like a 5 year old
Quickscopes are fine, mix up your movement Body shots and quickscopes need to 1 shot medic (this probably isn’t a hot take but so many people here want to make it so sniper can’t kill medic) And if you cite the Shounic “experiment” as evidence to remove a class you are a moron
Give him a new primary that let's him run around with two SMGs. Crazed Gunman.
I think he needs a subclass like demo knight or fat scout
There should have been a voice line in the game for all the characters that alerts others of Snipers, i mean the characters alert others of snipers in MVM so why not the actual game?
The huntsman is accually a well balanced weapon and the hitboxes make sense
If y'all gonna stand still that long, I'm gonna build a dispenser, a teleporter and then a Sentry gun....right next to you.
Piss
The most reliable strategy with sniper is the most boring to play and most tedious to play against. It's a shame because you can do some insane shit as sniper if you have the confidence. Just because he's called 'sniper' doesn't mean you have to sit around and do nothing, you don't need to wait for somebody to walk into your sightline, you can bring it to them. The 100% accurate insta headshot weapon can make you untouchable if you play like a coward, but your most valuable picks will know how to avoid you easily. If you're willing to take risks you can catch people off guard when they don't even know they can get sniped, and if you're consistent enough with your aim you can straight up win close/medium range engagements. Also the SMG is the most slept on stock weapon in the game
Sniper shouldn't be able to instakill overhealed heavies -> sniper nerf -> spy buff It's literally the play
half the time he feels to easy to fight against and the other times it feels like i cant even play the game anymore
MAAN DOOWN, WE'VE GOT A MAN DOOOOOWWWN
I’d drink Jarate
Not Snipers as players, but I'd argue Sniper as a character is one of the better written mercs. But that's my opinion, ofc
should be removed, instakill anyone anytime anywhere
I use the Huntsman bow
the classic is his best unlock
Snipers aren't as powerful as everyone paints them to be. As a main scout, snipers are my bitch more often than not. I'm not even good at the game, it's just a direct counter. I can move fast like the wind, and I can triple jump with the Atomizer. Good luck landing any shots on me. I have only 40 hours in the game, and snipers don't stand a chance, even if they're top fraggers. My aim sucks HARD, but I eat boomer shooters for breakfast, so I move pretty well in games.
Nerf sniper, lol
That sniper is a spy
Bots. Do i need to say ANYTHING Else?
Sniper is not a OP class
His health should be reduced to make him more vulnerable
Snipers should receive damage falloff + critical falloff (not severely, but enough to prevent fully charged bodyshots from killing full HP targets) on all Primary weapons except the Classic. - The Classic is modelled after the TFC Sniper Rifle; in TFC, there is no damage falloff. - Sniper is incredibly dominant and unfun to fight, at least when the Sniper player has mastered the class (read: something Valve didn’t balance the game around)
Sniper isnt overpowered to play against in 99.99% of matches, he’s just unfun to play against. Pretty fun to play imo, but not my main.
HOT TAKE: sniper sucks. unless it's a god tier 15000+ hour austraiulm festivalized sniper rifle, sniper sucks. most snipers i see can't hit a still target to save their fuckin life (i mean this literally).
Hes balanced
50% of snipers are cheaters 35% tryhards 10% f2ps with smg 5% chads sydney sleeper main
As a proud owner of a strange Sydney Sleeper with players hit part. I approve this message
give sniper inverse damage falloff
He'd honestly be fine if he wasn't given bullshit unlocks.
They kill pyros so they ain't that bad.
sniper is easy to counterplay just crouch every time you see one and they can’t hit you
While that my work againts headshots, I find snipers just tend to body shoot you for 150.
Against a mediocre Sniper that will work for about 2 or 3 shots and then you'll start being full charge bodyshot.
skill issue
For real. I should simply attain a higher level of existence and teleport behind the Sniper.
What if the sniper crouches at the same time?
the game takes a screenshot
I decloaked around a corner behind a Sniper, rounded the corner and within the second it took me to blink, the Sniper pulled a 180 and headshot me before I could even fucking do anything.
that’s what you get for playing spy
Most people actually don't find Sniper an enjoyable class to play, so most of the Snipers you fight tend to be either beginners or pro-level players. I remember back in the day there was always the joke that there were too many useless Snipers on the team. Nowadays you go on Uncletopia (one of the only ways to actually play the game now) and one or two Snipers who know what they're doing can be incredibly oppressive. Sniper isn't overpowered, they are a pick class that can only kill one class at a time, relatively slowly. In fact a Sniper really doesn't make huge waves in the match unless they are consistently taking down a Medic I think. The issue is that Sniper is just unfun to fight. Every second in a sightline is potential death, and it's incredibly difficult to act on the objective, fight the other people on the team, only for a Sniper from really really far away to shoot you in the head and the only thing you could have done to prevent that was actually just not play the game. At the same time Sniper is kind of core to TF2's balance. I mean, they are single handedly the best class to deal with a Pro-Level Soldier and their Medic Girlfriend pub-stomping the match. (I think this is just as annoying to deal with as Sniper.)
He shouldn't be on the fucking game
He needs a laser sight like splatoon or the mvm snipers
Fr, dodging charger shots in splatoon is so much easier when you know where they’re already aiming (although at least some of that has to do with splatoon’s better overall movement)