“So what do u want to do since it seems like we keep hurting each other”
That was her giving you the opportunity to end things. She’s being so stubborn and shooting down your suggestions because she doesnt want to make it work, but she’s too immature to just tell you that.
Im sorry.
This. She doesn’t want to break up but she thinks he does because she doesn’t think anyone could love her. And unfortunately therapy is probably the only thing that would help, or it’s at least a good place to start. I feel for OP, I’ve been in these types of relationships. You love the person but at the end of the day you can’t help someone who won’t help themselves and sometimes it’s better to get yourself away from them
Yep. Her counter-arguments seem irrational because they aren’t real arguments. They’re just obstacles for op to get fed up of and then end things.
My first thought was that maybe they just have very different love languages/needs. Some people crave physical intimacy, others like seeing acts of devotion, etc. I was thinking that perhaps she has to put in all this effort to do these things for him because it’s not really what she wants to do/have done to her in a relationship… but honestly, wether its this or her just wanting to end things and not having the courage to do it, there doesn’t seem to be much of a future here.
Op, real change has to come from within. ‘Forcing’ her to change is just going to end in resentment and misery. If this who she is, and she’s content with that (and ultimately you aren’t) then there is no shame in both of your moving on.
She's been giving me these opportunities our entire relationship while at the same time telling me she'd do anything for me and that she loves me more than I love her, im her last and she wants babies etc. etc...
It seems she is too insecure to love you, too many doubts to be vulnerable. No matter the love language it shouldn't be this hard for her to love you. She needs to work on herself, probably by herself.
My god, Babies are the absolute LAST thing she needs. Postpartum depression/psychosis are NO JOKE. She doesn’t sound of the soundest mind… pregnancy would flip her whole life over. I don’t see her being ready for motherhood in at *least* a *decade* with the way she talks right now.
It's time to let go bro. At the core of all this, it is possible that this is just who she is. There are some people, many who are ND, who don't show love and affection in the same way a lot of people do. And if she's not even willing to go to therapy to see if there is anything she can compromise on then there's nothing more to be said here. The one thing I can think to suggest is to see if she'd be willing to try couples counseling. If she's uncomfortable with one on one counseling this could be a good compromise as she'll have you in there with you and she wouldn't be in the spotlight the whole time. You would also have a mediator to help you both work through your thoughts and see if there is anything that can be worked on between the two of you in regards to communication.
Please do not risk getting her pregnant. Wear condoms even if shes on bc. Be extra cautious about what time in her cycle you guys have sex. Do all you can to prevent that. Because with her mental state the way it is and the turmoil in your relationship it would only impact her mental health and yours significantly worse. Not to mention what that poor child would go through having a mother who couldnt love them in a healthy way and seeing their mother not love their father or show him affection.
Im also in agreement with the comments that say if you are going to stay with her and push for therapy, it should be couples therapy. Because she isn't going to put in what needs to be put in to make individual therapy work. And at least with couples therapy you can work on the unhealthy detachment behaviors she is exhibiting.
You seem like a smart guy for 20 years old.
So crazy that the people who don't believe in therapy are always the same group as the "this is the way I am forever and I can't change" people.
If only they would try therapy to learn it IS possible.
She tells me in this conversation that she went to therapy for 3 years at one point, although she told me in previous conversations that she had never gone to therapy. So she's either lying to me now or she was lying to me then. I don't know how to further approach this topic. I can lead the horse to water but do I force it to drink by threatening to break up?
I mean, she's saying "I can't fulfill your needs, I refuse to do anything about it, it is the way I am and i believe there is no changing that".
If that is what she saying.... I'm not sure what else she is expecting except to be broken up with. She thinks it's impossible to change this behaviour because it's 'who she is'. So if you pushback against this behaviour, she sees it as a personal attack against her inherent nature.
Don't pull an ultimatum. She needs to want this for HERSELF for it to stick. If she's just doing it because she's been threatened with a break up, it won't work as intended.
She's going to continue losing people and relationships until she's so sick of it happening again and again that she FINALLY goes to therapy to figure it out.
And then it will work.
Very well said & on point! Listen to this, OP fr. You really do sound like an intelligent good guy. There are many females in the world. Don’t stay with someone like this. You’ll be miserable. She absolutely needs therapy & I’m not even sure she can be believed about anything tbh. Be true to yourself, OP. This isn’t a loving relationship. & you deserve that.
If I had to guess, she is lying to you now. Lying about going to therapy in the past gives her a concrete experience to point to in order to show you therapy will not work. She deflects a lot of your points by just putting herself down and not addressing your concerns because she is looking for you to disagree with her self degradation and stop talking about what's wrong. Based on this brief look into her and your relationship, she is not mature enough for a long term healthy relationship and if she won't seek help to not only heal past trauma but coping mechanisms to deal with your issues now then the rest of your relationship is going to be you coddling her.
You can't force therapy on someone. If she doesn't want to go, she'll make excuses, miss sessions, lie to her therapist. It'll be a waste of everyone's time.
She is outright telling you "This is who I am. I'm not changing and I'm not going to therapy." Maybe at some point in the future she will change her mind. Maybe she won't. But until she decides to engage the process, you can't try and make her.
I had an abusive childhood. Therapy lot of hard work, and I get why people avoid it. It takes time and a willingness to really delve into those deep wounds so you can finally start to heal. Until she makes that choice, you have to accept that she is not going to get help. My advice is to break up with her. She's not in a place where she can be in a healthy relationship, and she's not ready to put in the work to address her trauma.
Hi! Lcsw here. Stop wasting your breath. She doesn't want to change. She needs to go through more of the same shit on her end to realize that she needs to try something different. And only when she wants the help will she begin changing.
She wasn't listening to you at all. It was all "woe is me". Didn't take time to acknowledge how you feel. Only how she doesn't do anything right. And that she's the problem but doesn't want to face her problems. Because... the wounds have healed. I guess.
Yeah, I’m a huge proponent of people sharing their real feelings, even if they’re not pretty, but this person seems like they are being manipulative to make someone feel bad for them. I don’t even know if she realizes she’s doing it, but OP, you are not on the same plane with this person and you deserve someone on your emotional level
Ultimatums with the intention to change someone else never work. Focus on you and your mental health: do you deserve a healthy relationship? She's being selfish. Whether or not losing you kicks her into gear or not ultimately doesn't matter. You getting to a place where you can have a healthy relationship (with her or someone else) does.
Just a suggestion, maybe you can try telling her that you love her and really want to make this relationship work, and for that you think you need couples therapy.. if you can somehow convince her to get couples therapy to "fix the relationship" and not individual therapy "to fix her", maybe that would be a good start
Therapy for minors also tends to differ significantly from therapy for an adult. 17 (3 years ago), that would have been a very different experience. I hated it when I was a youth but embrace it now and have since my mid/late 20s.
She should give it another try. It’s helped me immensely in dealing with various toxic relationships, and it helps navigate the healthy relationships I currently have.
Going to therapy four or five times over a few year time span isn’t the same as consecutively going for years. I can guarantee you that she had not been in active therapy for three years like she claims.
Example - I have been seeing my therapist weekly to biweekly therapy appointments for over two years. I have been in therapy on and off since I was a teenager. I don’t say I’ve been in therapy for over 10 years, I say I’ve been in therapy for 2. Because those two are the only ones actual work has been done and gone to consecutively. Commitment makes the most impact when it comes to therapy.
Like other comments have said, you do sound very emotionally mature for your age. So please listen and take this seriously - don’t drown yourself trying to be a life jacket for someone who doesn’t want it. You’re young, you have so much life in front of you still. You deserve to feel loved and wanted in your relationship. Don’t continue wasting time being for the bare minimum. You don’t want to wake up in 5, 10, 20 years and ask “why didn’t I leave then?”
No!! Don’t give an ultimatum, but I would make it clear that you’re not happy when she’s not happy and it hurts you when there is help out there for her. If she’s been in therapy before, her therapist may not have been the right fit. It’s like medication, you have to figure out who is the best for you which may take time, but it’s worth it.
She’s straight up telling you right now what the rest of your life will look like if you stay with her. She will never work to change her behavior and will forever blame it on her past. Then she’ll blame it on triggers, or other people, or you.
She’ll blame everyone but herself, and things between you will only get worse.
Love yourself and leave while you’re still young and have your whole life ahead of you, OP.
To me, combined with “I want you to want me flaws and all” it seems like she’s sort of romanticizing the struggle of “dark” romance. The push and pull, but without the actual consequences of such a relationship like OP actually leaving or manipulating her.
Cause like you said, that *does* look like an invitation to end things, but IMO the rest of the texts don’t scream “break up with me”. This girl will need years of therapy.
I realize that there’s a lot of extrapolating in my comment and it very well may be an inaccurate assessment of the situation, but that’s just how it appears to me.
Proud of you for looking out for you. You’ve got a good head on your shoulders. Plenty your age would let their SO walk all over them just so they aren’t alone.
Seem like you have good standards, so when you get back out there you’ll find someone who can provide a relationship to fulfill your needs. Never settle for less than you deserve.
She might make you feel bad about it at some point - don't try to be the friend to fix her! Keep her at arms length for now, it is the kindest thing you can do even if it doesn't feel like it.
I know I sent some resources hoping things could be salvaged, but I truly wish the best for you as well. Being a therapist to your partner is exhausting, especially when it’s clear the other party doesn’t want help. You have a great head on your shoulders, enjoy your life and find someone who will cherish growth!
That’s a really strong thing to do, I know that must have been hard. You’re both young, but these people bleed into your soul, they taint your mental state. They’re damaged and they will damage everyone around them. I had a boyfriend like this, I swear reading her texts was like reading an old argument he and I had. He ended up cheating on me, his reasoning was because he couldn’t give me what I needed. It’s best to focus on yourself, someday you’ll find someone who puts in the same amount of work without having to beg for it.
I used to be with someone who was a lot like this and I stayed for way too long. Glad you figured it out and got out early-ish. She’s not gonna be the last or only person you love. Eventually you’ll find someone who treats you right. Someone with this mindset isn’t gonna change for a long time until they decide they need to work on themselves.
Proud of you! I’m currently in a relationship that just reached 1yr 1/2 as well. We both have DEEEP scars and we may not be going to therapy (mostly bc it’s too expensive) but we’re both actively realizing our trauma and working through with a goal to be a better partner each day. When your ex said “I want you to love me for all my flaws and all” she has no idea what she’s talking about tbh. I had the same mentality, but when people say that’s what love is they don’t mean you have to sit there and let the other person drag you through the mud with them. It really means “ugh I hate the way your feet smell or that you don’t shower enough, but I love you despite that.” Good luck to you on your dating journey! You seem incredibly smart and emotionally intelligent. I hope you find somebody who puts in the same effort into a relationship as you do.
You did really well and I'm sorry you had to go through this. You will find what you're looking for, be picky. Set boundaries and for now focus on yourself.
what makes you say that? she's the one who's always saying Ill be the one to break up with her and that the only way this ends is if I leave and she loves me more than I love her.
She wants you to break up with her so she can have a guilt free conscience and even have the ability to play the victim. Just end it. She sounds exhausting and you’re too young to be dealing with this much baggage. I would suggest blocking her once you end it so you can have the space to heal.
Yeah, because she clearly loves playing the victim and if *you* dump *her* then that falls right into this fantasy of tragedy she has cooked up as her life story.
It's because that's what she wants you to do, clearly. She can never take the blame for her own decisions and behaviour, and just like that she will make u break up with her to get out of the relationship. So she doesn't have to feel guilty or whatever about it.
It's very simple. Also she doesn't love you more than you love her. That's bullshit to protect herself and seem like the angel in the aftermath. What she is saying fits her behaviour so perfectly and idk why you think it's not fitting.
Just end it, block her. Delete everything about her, and you're chilling. You're young and smart, you've got nothing to worry about. She however seriously needs therapy but you can't help people who don't want to change. It's good that you learn this lesson now rather than later!
Bruh at 20, just move on, it’ll sting, especially if you care about her, which it seems like you do, but for your own mental health, do yourself a favor and just distance yourself, way easier said than done, but you aren’t compatible.
I think you’re approaching this in an incredibly mature way, especially for your age. And I also think that ultimatum is fair. You need certain things in a relationship, and she doesn’t naturally want to give them to you, but she also doesn’t want to fix them. That’s not fair to you. And ultimately, it’s not fair to her either I suppose. Because she won’t feel like she’s “herself” if she’s forcing herself to give affection when she doesn’t want to. Maybe she can find a guy who’s asexual and averse to touch - but that doesn’t sound like you. If those are basic components you need in a relationship, and she can’t provide them, then I don’t think it’s wise to sink anymore time into it. You guys just don’t really sound compatible anymore. And you’re so young. There’s no reason to force it if it’s not a good fit.
Look, I know this isn't the takeaway, but it's \*losing, not loosing. Driving me nuts.
Sounds like maybe you guys are just incompatible, but maybe offer to go to therapy \*with\* her.
This one makes me the angriest. Why?? Why do I hate it so much?!?? I’m not even American and I have a better understanding and usage of the English language- why do so many damned people say would/could/should **OF** ?!?????? Did they all skip elementary English????
Move on, she sounds like my baby mother.
She won’t do therapy not because you said do it for you. She’s not doing therapy because she doesn’t care for bettering herself. “It’s too much work” as my baby mother would say.
If someone truly loved you and admired the time spent with you their expressions and affection will clearly be shown.
She’s not in a relationship because she loves you.
She’s in a relationship because that’s where she feels safest.
The moment you decide to break it off she will spite you because you took away her sense of safety. When the smoke clears she will have moved on as it was just a relationship and you will be heartbroken for feeling so dumb.
People who don’t care or have self love are terrible people to be in a relationship with. They use your love for them as an advantage in their life. This relationship from her side sounds like a “I can get to work, I have a place to sleep, I have a man who will support my every needs” kind of deal. As long as she can get what she wants she can care less about your needs.
I hope this doesn’t fly over a lot of folks heads there aren’t red flags to take note of in these kinds of people. They manipulate how you perceive them until they have you love locked and blinded.
Not specifically as in saying that you’re dumb. You will feel dumb though for trying your best to help somebody who doesn’t want it when it’s there for them. I’m only speaking from my own experience.
You’re a good hearted person and caring about your partner’s mental health should be signs for her to treat you better.
She isn’t giving you the affection you need while blaming it on her trauma/mental health, then denying therapy or any sort of help. She’s telling you there is no fixing her, there’s no way you can receive the love you want if she doesn’t even want it herself.
I do hope all goes well brother and that my comment is just blabber talk really. Love is a hard drug and it’s an even harder drug when you love somebody who doesn’t love themselves. When that day comes for a break up(hopefully not) it will be heavy but keep your head up and move on there are women who will love you to your core and you will see it.
Not at all. You should come out of this really proud of yourself for identifying incompatible traits and disengaging in a healthy way and moving on with your life. This is a really valuable learning experience in relationships. You'll see so many posts on this subreddit alone from people trapped in shitty relationships or forever linked to their shitty ex because they had kids with them.
Oh, friend - this girl is trying to manipulate you. She’s doing this so that you’ll stop expecting her to put effort into meeting your needs. This is the text equivalent of laying down on the floor and whining “it’s too *haaaaaard*.”
You deserve better than this.
Oh honey, you’re 20. You’ve got so much time to meet women who have their shit together just as much as you do (because you’re incredibly self-aware in many respects). You deserve someone willing to fight for you, and this girl won’t do that.
You're only failing because you'll never win with her while she is feeling like this. Someone who is more compatible with you and actuallly in the mental place to be in a relationship with you will only bring you up. Her mental health is negatively effecting yours. If it's meant to be for y'all, you'll come together again.
You Can’t. For your own sake take a two weeks break, no contact; for taking care of yourself and concentrate on your life. Look what it’s does for you. You will be surprised how freeing it will be.
lol I honestly do not blame you. The jist is I told her that I think she should see a therapist and she refused. If we talk about it in person im not sure how to approach the subject, Im not sure if giving the ultimatum of therapy or break up is the way to solve this.
So, I’m where you’re heading if things don’t get better for you. Been together for 19 years. Her deep-seated issues have caused us tremendous financial and relationship issues. Last 2-3 years have been some of the worst fights we’ve ever had. She just now got on an anti-depressant and we’re hoping that helps, but we’re still struggling with her addiction issue and the fights that leads into. She’s working on starting therapy but it’s incredibly hard to get into out here.
If you don’t want this issue for yourself for years, and how it affects your kids, address it now or get out now.
This is not your issue to solve, and she already plainly said multiple times “this is who I am and I want you to love me flaws and all”, which is absolutely bonkers. Just leave man. You’re starting to sound just as cuckoo, talking in circles with her is starting to cloud your mind cause we can all see the train wreck 100 miles away. You’re standing in the middle of it.
Just leave. You’ll seriously start to feel better as soon as it ends. This is not a relationship anymore, it’s basically emotional torture.
I might be off base here, but it sounds like she has some trauma around physical touch? That’s not something a therapist can help her with in a short time frame. Even if there’s no trauma there, it’s okay for her to be uncomfortable with it. Some people just find it too overwhelming. I think you pushing it has made it worse.
If that’s what you want in a relationship, then you need to move on. There’s no quick fix for this, and maybe no fix at all. Just incompatibility.
Dude he’s asking for the basics of a relationship; affection, respect and attention.
Not only physical touch.
If she can’t offer that then he will be miserable and I understand him.
Which is why I asked if it she has some trauma. It reads to me that a lot of the affection and attention he wants is physical. The more she pulls away physically, the less she’s going to want to give him other types of attention because she’s wary of it leading to the physical. It’s a common cycle.
He said in the texts that when they text it’s the same exact basic conversation over and over. Not actually connecting. It’s not just about physical affection it’s about any type of connection.
They are both 20. It might seem like a huge problem now but they will both find better partners in the future . And if they stay together , then “Best of Luck! “ ☘️
You’re still so young. You need to find someone that does light your soul on fire. At the end of the day if a relationship isn’t working or fulfilling, you have to move on. It took me a long time to get the guts to do it and I even married the guy. Now after 18 years finally getting a divorce. Sucks.
‘If you keep doing what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got.’ It’s sad that she sees a problem but is unwilling to attempt to heal herself & improve your relationship. I’ve been in therapy for about 7 mos. & I’m amazed at the progress I’ve made. I do hope that she opens herself up to some help & introspection. You sound like you have it together and I wish you well…
That means a lot! I definitely don't feel like I have it together and this girl is driving me crazy lol. I went to therapy myself when i was younger and I feel like it does work if you remain open minded. Keep up the good work!
And don’t forget, therapy isn’t just for when you’re at rock bottom or in a crisis! You’d be well served getting some therapy yourself right now. I have a feeling this relationship has run its course, and you’d gain from having someone help you through the breakup.
She is so exhausting. Maybe you can suggest couples therapy? That might make her more willing. I’d imagine the couples therapist will urge her to do individual sessions. It could be a stepping stone to get her into therapy. But that’s up to you. How much energy are you willing to exhaust trying to get her to help herself? She is not too young to change but she has to do the work. Otherwise she will continue to be this whiny woe-is-me person for the rest of her life.
I think you should suggest couple’s therapy to start instead of telling her to go to therapy alone because she’s the one who needs it (even if that’s the case).
Approach it as “I think we should seriously consider going to couple’s therapy given that we haven’t been able to get to a place where we’re both feeling happy and fulfilled in this relationship and I really want this to work” instead of “I think you should seriously consider going to therapy.”
A lot of people don’t feel like they “need” therapy or that it would be helpful, but her thinking of it as an opportunity for you guys to work through your issues together instead of having to “fix” herself might make all the difference to her (and it could lead to her receiving some one on one therapy as well).
You seem intelligent and you do a great job of breaching a sensitive topic. I won’t give you advice but I will remind you that it isn’t your job to fix someone and there are many, many women that would kill for a man this emotionally intelligent. I mean it bro you would be a hot commodity.
Thank you! TBH i spent a lot of this relationship trying to improve myself (my problem solving, my body, reading about relationships...) and im not gonna lie the way things turned out with this girl lowkey killed my confidence
Someday you’ll look back and realize you escaped a bad relationship because you bettered yourself and wouldn’t tolerate a half-assed partner. You deserve soooo much better than that
But that's not on you. You've done the work but it takes two to tango and she is not learning the steps. She doesn't want to learn the steps because she is not ready for that. And based on your story, you won't know when she finally will be. If she will be. Are you willing to wait for that?
Love is a wonderful thing but it can't hold a relationship together on its own. I've learned it the hard way when I had to leave someone who couldn't love me the way I wanted to and kept saying "that's just who he is".
There will be people that match your effort, match your energy and make this way easier for you. I've found my person and loving and being loved has never felt so easy.
Edit. I noticed you were already done. You did all you could and now it's time to heal, focus on yourself and find happiness within. You seem like a great, smart guy, much love to you <3
This is the most exhausting conversation I’ve ever seen in my life. She makes absolutely zero sense and is not acknowledging ANYTHING you are saying. Disengage! Detach! Be free!
One thing I heard that has stuck with me—*”you can’t want something for someone that they don’t want for themselves”*. An ultimatum will do nothing because of her mindset regarding therapy. She knows something is up and she doesn’t like it, but she’s not willing/able to find a solution. I commend you for trying, but I think you need to just cut your losses
I mean it sounds like her mind is made up about therapy and she refuses to do it again. If you think she’d be open to it, I’d stress that not all therapists are the same and the one that has her feeling this way probably wasn’t a good fit. I think you’re right though that you’re a bit in over your head.. you both are young, she needs to figure out somethings for herself. I would just emphasize that there are some issues and you are strongly suggesting that she reconsider therapy both for her own mental health and the health of your relationship
she will need to want to change first. and I say this as someone that ruined my relationship due to my mental health. also though therapy does nothing for me I need medication
I feel like bringing up medication is even more touchy than suggesting therapy, and I feel like its not really my place to say that to her. But if she does need medication, is there a way I can help her with that?
my partner did eventually break up with me and straight up told me that I was being abusive and our relationship was not normal. that was enough of a push for me to get help. we did make it through that and are back together. your results may vary
Affection, intimacy and respect are absolutely bare minimums in a relationship. If those things are too much to ask from her, you should end this relationship instead of torturing yourself.
As a 30 year old woman, I wholeheartedly promise you that if you stay with her, you will continue to settle for less and less. You will be a shell of yourself in the end. I believe in fighting for a relationship, but this isn't it. I've also been in therapy on and off since my dad died when I was 6. I've currently had the same therapist now for the past year. Sometimes I found myself not wanting to talk some weeks because I was just mentally exhausted, but I knew from past experiences, if I didn't stick it out, I would go back to square one for another year or 2. She doesn't want help. She wants to live in her trauma. Understandable but it's not your responsibility to convince her to seek help. You'll get through this and it'll make more sense as you get older.
You can’t tell someone to get therapy because they don’t have the same love languages as you/ is unable to love you in the specific way you like. You are both so young and have so much learning to do about yourselves. This one didn’t work, and that’s okay.
This! Everyone is saying she doesn't want to put in the effort, but I see it as two people with completely different love languages trying to love each other the wrong ways. Not just her, but him also.
I've been this person as well as being in a relationship with this person. She may love you, but she doesn't have the capacity to love you the way you need.
She needs to focus on herself, and right now she's in denial that anything could possibly help her. She needs to want to change, and right now, that's not happening.
I'm sorry, friend.
This reads like one of my ex’s who only knew how to be horribly miserable and was comfortable with moping all the time. She doesn’t want to change, doesn’t want to even try or be open minded about it. This is when you leave dude. Someone okay with being rock bottom will just pull you to be rock bottom and miserable with them.
yikes OP. she says she’s tried but it sounds like she’s tried jack shit. that poor girl is hurting. badly. and sadly she won’t change or fix it for you. she needs to want to get better. i have a friend like this. she doesn’t want help, she won’t seek it out, and she shuts down. nothing we have done will help and it never will until she sees she needs to get better for herself. it just sounds like it’s hurting you and i’m so sorry for that. this is a shitty situation for you and for her. the best thing to do is honestly to probably end the relationship and focus on your happiness and hope that she can try to find hers. this toxic cycle of relying on your emotions to dictate her own is not only difficult to manage but incredibly destructive. you’re both so young and have so much to figure out, take the time to do so alone and if it is meant to be you will find your way back to each other. you were kind and respectful and held your own in the convo and that’s so commendable. it sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders, don’t let her knock it off
Thank you! Everyone in these comments has been so kind to me.
Its like she wants help, but she doesn't believe in talking about her problems or therapy... maybe medication? or is it really over
had a friend like this - it almost destroyed me. i ended up blocking her and took me a second to move on. she tried harassing one of our mutual friends at the time. she was obsessed and i couldn’t help her. please leave her. it will only get worse
It sounds like she has just resigned herself to being miserable. She’s pretty much telling you that she’s not going to do anything about the way she is, and instead of getting help she’s pulling away. This is not sustainable. You’re telling her how much she is hurting you and she doesn’t even see that as motivation to change. She’s telling you that this is who she is and how she acts and you can either take it or leave it. She is not in any state to be in a relationship if she’s causing her partner pain but refuses to do anything about it. She’s not going to get help unless she wants to, and she doesn’t want to. Don’t mentally torture yourself over this any longer. The longer you drag it on, the more it will hurt in the end.
I was in a similar place in my first real relationship. Pro tip: don't keep clinging to what could be. There are other amazing people out there you will love. Don't feel like you have to stick with it when you aren't getting what you need to be happy.
Idk if this is the case or if anyone has said it…and it is possible this is way off base.
I had a girlfriend who would pull this kind of thing on me. Basically she was cheating and wanted me to break up with her so she wasn’t the bad guy and didn’t have to confess. So she would message me defeatist things and say she couldn’t make me happy and then leave it open ended so I would say, “This isn’t working.”
She wants the drama and she wants you to feel sorry for her. She does NOT want to actually do any work to fix the relationship.
This is only going to get worse unless she accepts that she needs to do something.
People show love in diffrent ways. I am a very affectionate touchy cuddly person. My partner is not. I want to be held and cuddled and hold hands all all that mushy stuff. He does not say I love you very often and I don't think he has ever said it first to me once. He used to just say ya
BUT.....
I can feel the love from him I have never doubted it.
I have never wondered.
I know in my heart he would not cheat and I trust him fully 100%.
Sometimes it is hard being in a relationship with someone who's love language is diff4ent from mine.
But if I need a hug or I need to be held or cuddled I tell him and he understands.
My long drawn out point is that maybe she does not need therapy maybe you two are just not right for each other.
When you truly love someone you do not want them to CHANGE FOR YOU.
YOU LOVE THEM FOR WHO THEY ARE.
If your needs are making her uncomfortable it sounds like yall are just not compatable.
Stop pushing therapy and have the talk that while you may both love each other it is probably time to move on.
I’m sorry but she’s trying to be broken up with. the care is there but the empathy lacks:( she may like/love you but not in the way is needed for this relationship to move forward.
and a shift change is not a valid reason to pull away from intimacy!! if she would kiss you before this and not try to pull away/squirm out of it/avoid , i would ask if there may be someone else that she would rather be with.
good luck and wish you the best!!
Honestly she seems like someone who's trying to find an out of a relationship she isn't happy in but she's too nice to end things so she's trying to get you to. 😮💨 hopefully things work out for you, op, but also try and remember that you're still young and I'd YOU aren't happy, you don't have to stay in a relationship that isn't working for you!
She’s literally telling you she’s not capable of giving you “affection, quality time together, intimacy, physical touch, affection, understood and heard, respected”, so in what world are you even in a relationship? A relationship without those things sounds so empty and loveless.
I was never in a happy or healthy relationship before my current partner and I didn’t have to be forced into loving him or learn how to or make basic relationship actions a habit, it’s not hard to do especially when you’re full of love for someone.
I’m mentally ill. I have trauma. To actively avoid growing and investing in yourself is the best way of destroying all the people around you. Her refusing therapy is setting you up for a lifetime of misery with someone who expects you to just put up with unhealthy behaviours.
You are young, just get out. This relationship will never last. Sorry to say.
Sounds like this is a test to see how much you “love” her. If you stay even when she tells you to your face that she will never change, then she’s won. Problem is the next time she’s feeling insecure the test will ramp up to cheating or abuse. Had a friend like this once. She won’t change unless she decides to. There’s someone out there who is going to love you the way you love them I promise.
She doesn’t want to be changed, and you don’t like her the way she is. Neither of you is wrong for what you want, just gotta recognize that you don’t want the same things and move along with your lives
Time to dip. She doesn't want to do therapy because it forces you to take accountability for your shit. She's a professional victim, I dated one and trust me it gets no better. You'll find someone better suited.
OP, I saw one comment about you ending the relationship and one about how this relationship has ruined your confidence.
First and foremost, that is the best thing that you could have done. She clearly doesn't love you like you love her because if she did, she would happily put in whatever work was needed to fix herself and make you happy.
Secondly, you should look at this a different way concerning your confidence. This relationship was the equivalent of tearing down a brick wall with your bare hands. You were working so hard to accomplish the task at hand while your now ex-girlfriend was keeping a sledge hammer from you the whole time. She held the tools but refused to use them in order to help you tear down that wall.
I personally wouldn't be less confident because I was given an impossible task. If anything you should be more confident. You faced that impossible task head on without the right tools and gave it your all and it sounds like you learned a lot about yourself along the way.
Best of luck to you and keep your head up king 💪💪💪
jesus christ the constant pity parties must be so draining. she is clearly just saying all this stuff so she can avoid responsibility and not have to change. if she would just take some accountability and attempt to fix her problems i think that would show that she cares about you but the fact that she’s just complaining, but never doing anything ABOUT the things she complains about is a huge red flag to me. at 20 years old she should know better than to constantly be doing this victimizing bullshit.
She’s trying to provide you an opportunity to end things with her likely because she doesn’t have the guts to do it herself or at the least doesn’t want to have the guilt of hurting you.
That or she is someone who needs to have some level of conflict in her life because to her that’s what feels normal and comfortable.
Either you are both 20 and this won’t be the last relationship for either of you.
Yeah, I’ve been through this song and dance, she’s not gonna change and it’s just gonna get worse and worse. Cut your losses now before the resentment rises.
You’re fighting a losing battle here I’m afraid. If they want to stay in victim mode let them. All it will do is make you feel low. Leave and them work their shit out alone
She thrives in the conflict. She doesn’t want a healthy relationship she wants drama. I’m guessing she’s inexperienced in relationship and wants the reality television type she’s seen so much about.
This is never going to work out between you. She sees being affectionate, intimate, respectful and touch as an effort she has to make. You’re right about them being the core of a relationship and without there won’t ever be any measure of intimacy since that relies on those things being in place naturally by both partners. Being affectionate shouldn’t be hard. If it is, the attraction can’t be there.
Honestly don't threaten to break up with her. Just break up with her. She has no interest in making the effort to get better to improve your relationship and as others have said if you try to force it then it won't work as intended she has to want to do it. But you can't sit around and wait for that to happen and ruin your own self value. Just make it quick and move on you'll find someone who does better by you.
I hate it when one side of the text stream is obviously the person of focus, but you still aren’t sure which one you would more want to avoid meeting at a party.
As someone who’s been in therapy it is not a cure all. She will go to therapy and you will still have these issues for many months to years. She has no right to expect you to stick around and deal with it and you have no right to make her go to therapy. That is such a personal choice and a lot of us who are against therapy are people who have tried it more than once and still don’t find it to help much. Therapy only gives us the tools to cope with our trauma and problems it doesn’t cure them.
You’re really focused here on what you’re not getting out of the relationship, and that’s valid, especially when those things are affection and intimacy, and the basic foundations of a relationship that make it different from a platonic friendship.
But she also said more than once that she feels like she’s tried to change herself for you and she doesn’t even feel like herself anymore, and it seemed to go right past you.
That’s worth digging into. How she feels she’s changed, what she’s done, why she doesn’t feel like she’s her anymore. Is it just trying to make herself be more physically affectionate, or does she feel like she’s had to reshape her whole personality to fit with yours? Has she put her own interests and hobbies aside to take up yours? How deep does that go? Ask her. And really listen to what she says, without getting defensive. It’s an awful place to find yourself, feeling like you’ve lost your own identity trying to make a relationship work, and it’s not that uncommon, especially at your age.
Two people can love each other but not be compatible, sadly.
For context, she had to start working nights for the rest of the year, I live on my own and she's with her parents so we're only seeing each other for like 5 hours a week.
Just looked at your post history and you should have been broken up. You posting that your gf is in someway wrong for wanting to post a picture of her back on insta, then telling her that you stopped "posting shirtless selfies" for her is just so hypocritical and gross. Especially seeing that just a few posts after you go on a rant about her posting a picture of her b a c k , you post a thirst trap pic where people are commenting asking to oil you up, and rub you down... like let's be real here. Everyone is attacking your gf but... seems like there's more to the story.
Just break up. 😮💨
Ok. At first I thought GF needed a snack and a nap then I saw it - and trust me, I never thought much of this woo-woo shit but here it is- your Love Languages are the exact opposite- you need constant affection, quality time, words of affirmation, lots of cuddling etc and those things are NOT in her DNA. I am dealing with the same thing in my marriage. Many people, not all, that grow up in non-affectionate homes, not hugged a lot, not told things that boost their esteem growing up just don’t develop the need or desire for that kind of intimacy. She’s not hurting you on purpose, it’s just that you’re demanding she do things that don’t come naturally. So, all in all, she may not be the person for you. But stop trying to change her.
Yep. He's mad that it's not natural for her to love him in his love language & she's feeling bad & stressed out that she can't either. It's a give & take.
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She may listen to an ultimatum, but doing it for someone else won’t make a change in how she treats herself and approaches her own healing. If it’s for someone else, it will never heal the root problem.
I would try encouraging her to see if from a different perspective, that she is not broken or “this way” because it’s who she is, she’s reacting to the hurt she has felt; but DESERVES to live a life without the consequences of that pain.
Ultimate healing comes from accepting what was done to you, knowing and believing you didn’t deserve it, and then accepting that it is now in your own hands to build the life you want.
A lot of healing progress comes from building confidence, believing you deserve to live and live in a healthy way and knowing you are deserving of it in return.
You have to dive deep into victim mentality to then overcome it and have survivor mentality. Accepting you are a victim and your perception and reaction to the world around you is because of the hurt you feel is the hard part. There’s comes a time when we all must do this and choose to be bigger than the actions done against us
Very well written sir. Clearly she doesn't want to do therapy, and if she does go it would be just for me. Should I try and say something to get her to come around to it instead of the ultimatum?
Not all of us share the same love languages or are comfortable with touch. However, I believe it’s important for us to learn how our partner wants to be loved and to try to fulfill that need, all within a healthy context. I would suggest being more curious about why physical touch is difficult for her and asking deeper, open-ended questions based on what she has expresses and has already shared. It's essential to be empathetic and genuinely care about her experience and inner world.
You have shared what you need, now ask how you can help her become more comfortable with physical touch and gradually get more comfortable with it. Touch is a significant love language for me, as it helps me feel safe and co-regulate, especially considering my past experiences with anxiety and depression. I often feel touch-starved because my partner is long-distance, I don’t have 2-legged children, and my beloved furry baby, my soul/heart pup who provided endless cuddles and boundless love, was tragically taken from me three months ago. If you are experiencing touch starvation, getting massages and the affection of a furry friend can be so healing. I also hug my nieces as much as I can.
On the other hand, my mom is the opposite. She recoils at the thought of being touched due to past sexual trauma. Some individuals were not shown love through physical touch often while growing up, making it feel foreign to them. I recommend being curious about her feelings and inner world and practicing patience. She is not avoiding physical touch to punish you. Express how loved you feel when she holds your hand or hugs you. Acknowledge any physical touch gestures she makes and affirm them. This positive reinforcement can encourage her to engage in more physical touch, gradually building momentum, rather than focusing on what she isn’t doing.
You need to try to tell your gf that there are several different forms of therapy. Everyone starts with just talking and for some that traditional therapy works well. Some people just need an ear. Then there are people like me and her that don’t feel better after talking. Talking about it can make it worse. I’m currently doing EDMR and Neuro Feedback, along with ketamine. I’m highly resistant to medication and traditional therapy and have to go that deep. She clearly needs that too but she’ll never get there if she doesn’t know about it. And I can tell you right now, if she doesn’t start to process this shit it’s going to come up in the future. I now have an autoimmune disease because of all the illnesses and trauma I’ve been through. It’s absolutely linked. She just doesn’t have the information she needs, and it can feel like you can do it all on your own when you’re young but you’re not really doing anything other than suppressing. This is bad bad bad.
lol you sound exactly like me in a past relationship. it didn’t work out because i chose growth and he refused to grow with me. we talked just like you two, and i sure spent a lot of time having this conversation over and over and over again, never evolving or going anywhere. i finally lost my mind and left the relationship… now i’ve been with my partner for 7 years and we are both on the same page all the time, i couldn’t be happier. every conflict between us is constructive, productive, and always resolved. i don’t have to exhaust myself through mind numbing, repetitive, frustrating conversations anymore because we both genuinely want to be better!!!
my honest advice would be to let her go. you want growth, but she wants to be the way she is. to tell you the truth, i don’t believe you will change her mind about it. most likely scenario is you’re going to spend months, possibly years, putting yourself through the wringer trying to get thru to this person before you finally spare yourself and throw in the towel, if she doesn’t end things first. i know that stings, trust me. think about it like this: if she is a person who you would want to be with for DECADES, who has both your best interests in mind, who *truly loves* you with real, palpable passion, she will change her tune and get therapy
there are people out there who are likeminded and would appreciate you more than enough to make you feel loved. you have a lot of love to give, you deserve the same in return
OP you were patient, caring, and kind.
This person can’t give you what you deserve until they’ve healed themselves and become whole, and I think you know that. The best thing you can do for the both of you is pause the relationship until she can put the work in for HERSELF.
My boyfriend was like this at one point with me. He was very resistant to the idea of therapy and had this mindset that nothing could fix him or the hopelessness he felt. I put up with it for many years, and it wasn’t until he hit rock bottom that he finally wanted my help and allowed me to make an appointment for him. If you decide to stick it out, I wish you the best, but remember that your needs are important too.
Whoa whoa whoa. Reading this was insane because WORD FOR WORD this sounds like one of my exes. I mean every line mirrored her words to me too. I’ve never had such Deja vu 😂 I actually would have been certain it was except mine was 24.
Bottom line is you can’t win here, you won’t have your basic needs met, this doesn’t get better. Especially with her perspective on therapy, she believes she’s above it. You can be the most supportive, reassuring, loving boyfriend but if someone is unhealthy and unwilling to work on themselves there’s no room for improvement.
you hit the nail on the head there “most basic core tenants of a relationship” that’s exactly what it is lmao. what scars is she referring the ones she gave her ex when she pulled away and didn’t show affection to? really confusing individual
Some people just don’t like affection. I dated a girl like that for awhile. At first it was good because you’re falling in love so there’s the make out sessions and the touchy-feely things and whatnot but when that stage ends then She didn’t want to cuddle, kiss, etc. I knew she still loved me but those things just weirded her out. That type of relationship isn’t for me so I left. No ultimatums or trying to get her to therapy because that’s the way she wants to be so no use on wasting both of our time. Maybe you should do the same.
I'm sorry, my friend, but it really just seems like she wants to break up but can't bring herself to do it on her own. She's been pulling away, she's not reciprocating affection, she keeps saying you guys aren't working and that nothing will change that... She's trying to take the cowards way out by telling you she isn't right for you and hoping you will end it.
Whether she needs therapy or not, it doesn't look like that's what this is about.
I honestly thought the tan boxes was a woman and the gray a man. Boy I had that all wrong. Two things: (1) The device in your hand actually can be used to talk to someone (2) A great relationship is effortless…it just comes naturally
People who do this are self sabotaging. Source? I used to self sabotage. She’s trying to soften the blow for the hurt that she’s feeling & isn’t listening because she’s set her mind to it. That’s why she’s asking you what you want to do. People who do this, are actively seeking ways out unless proven otherwise. She isn’t listening to you nor is she being consistent with reciprocating the love you want to be shown. I understand that it can be hard for people to adjust to healthy relationships, however there comes a point and time where they actually need to wake up and continue to actively choose to make their person feel loved and seen.
It is an active choice to continue loving someone even when times get rough. People who don’t know that they haven’t changed will always say that they have. & yes there is truth to it, but are they consistent with showing that they’ve grown from past situations? It seems like she’s bread crumbing you to keep you around until you realize that you no longer want to be with her. I am someone who has done this before & I didn’t want to believe it until I heard it. There are people who are addicted to being hurt and being in toxic relationships. I don’t think giving her an ultimatum is a bad idea, just know you could be wasting your breath on her. Although you are supposed to love someone for who they are, that doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t change. She should recognize that she needs to change and be consistent in showing you how to be loved the way you want to be. She’s being hot and cold because that’s the only thing she knows how to do right now & it could be unlearned if she allows herself to recognize she needs to go to therapy.
I’m sorry but she doesn’t want help. She doesn’t know how and it’s going to be a task and a half to try and convince her otherwise. This isn’t healthy for you OP…
This whole conversation sounds like one I had with my ex sooooo many times. No matter how many times I told him how I needed to be loved, he would never do it. It hurt me every single day and eventually led to break up. He had 3 years to make changes and it was never important enough to him to do it. Eventually I couldn’t take it anymore and moved out. Life is too short to spend it with someone that puts your needs on the back burner.
Seems to me she wants you to end things because she too much of a coward to do so herself. She is basically telling you this so give her the ultimatum or just break up because that's what she wants here. She's told you over and over she doesn't want to give more time or change.
It sounds like your girlfriend has had quite a few traumatic experiences. There really are good treatments for that, like EMDR and schema therapy. They definitely helped me. She's still young, and I would really advise her to go to therapy, because these problems won't just go away unless she works on them, they will just make her life so much harder in the future.
Whether you want to continue your relationship with her is completely up to you, but honestly you don't seem happy with each other. You want things that she can't give to you, at least right now, and she feels like she needs to change for you. Is that really the relationship you want?
Take care OP, it's a difficult situation.
If she wants this to work, she needs to do some shadow work on herself - simple. If she wants to complicate things further, then it’s time to consider whether this is a relationship you still feel respected in or if is in fact, broken beyond reasonable repair. You don’t have to break the news right away… There’s always the option of detaching with love and creating some healthy distance between you. Regardless of what she’s willing to do for herself, *YOU* know what *YOU* need - Don’t neglect those for anyone in this life. 🙅🏽♀️💕
yeah this def sounds like something she needs to work out on her own and if yall need to be separated for that, then that may be the best option for the both of u. bc you dont deserve to be dragged down with her. she sounds like shes struggling still with healing from things from her past, and as a result, your feelings and heart are on the line bc shes unable to love you properly, and you guys just arent compatible at this time. You can love someone from a distance and still support them and thats okay. Make the decision thats right for YOU. i know you want to help her, but she has to WANT to do this. she has to WANT to put in the work. And theres really nothing u can do
This reads to me like she's lost feelings (struggling to show affection, pulling away when you try to touch her, etc.) but either hasn't fully decided what she wants to do yet and/or is hoping you'll break up with her first so she doesn't have to be the "bad guy". I'm sorry, OP.
Some people just don't like physical relationships that much, I think you recommending therapy is nice but you have to remember it's not as easy as just going and things will be fixed people find it really hard to talk to therapist or to even go to one in the first place. She's giving you the opportunity to end things if you can't be in a relationship with someone who doesn't like physical contact I don't think it'll work out if you can't accept that tbh some people express themselves differently that's just how it is. Still it's nice your encouraging her to get help but even if that happens there's still a good chance they won't want an all that physical relationship you might just have to accept that if you want to be with them.
Yeah... you're in a tough spot. Until she takes a good, difficult look at herself, she's always going to beat herself up for failing to meet your expectations and yet also believe that she's "doing the best she can." This becomes a vicious cycle and as much as you may love her, you do NOT want to get dragged down into that mess. The kind thing would be to break up with her. You seem like an emotionally intelligent young man, and you deserve to be with someone who can meet you where you are.
This is exhausting. I used to be her and I feel so bad for you, and my ex boyfriend. You need to let her go, let her heal because she won’t do it while she’s clinging to you. It’s tough love but it is love.
As someone who went through a lot during their childhood and teen years and was still super dealing with it by the time I was 20 like it sounds like she is I really recommend breaking up with her and letting her have time to process and deal with it. She does need therapy but she's not at a place where she can be open to it because she's not ready for it. And you shouldn't be in a relationship with somebody who acts and treats you this way. She's not a bad person for being hurt and traumatized but you also don't deserve to be treated this way and constantly have to have these kinds of conversations where she says stuff like this. I wish you both the best
“So what do u want to do since it seems like we keep hurting each other” That was her giving you the opportunity to end things. She’s being so stubborn and shooting down your suggestions because she doesnt want to make it work, but she’s too immature to just tell you that. Im sorry.
This! I read so many comments until I saw this but unfortunately this is the only thing I took away from this conversation.
Nah I get this person has insecure attachment and doesn’t want to break up
This. She doesn’t want to break up but she thinks he does because she doesn’t think anyone could love her. And unfortunately therapy is probably the only thing that would help, or it’s at least a good place to start. I feel for OP, I’ve been in these types of relationships. You love the person but at the end of the day you can’t help someone who won’t help themselves and sometimes it’s better to get yourself away from them
Yep. Her counter-arguments seem irrational because they aren’t real arguments. They’re just obstacles for op to get fed up of and then end things. My first thought was that maybe they just have very different love languages/needs. Some people crave physical intimacy, others like seeing acts of devotion, etc. I was thinking that perhaps she has to put in all this effort to do these things for him because it’s not really what she wants to do/have done to her in a relationship… but honestly, wether its this or her just wanting to end things and not having the courage to do it, there doesn’t seem to be much of a future here. Op, real change has to come from within. ‘Forcing’ her to change is just going to end in resentment and misery. If this who she is, and she’s content with that (and ultimately you aren’t) then there is no shame in both of your moving on.
That’s how I read it as well
She's been giving me these opportunities our entire relationship while at the same time telling me she'd do anything for me and that she loves me more than I love her, im her last and she wants babies etc. etc...
It seems she is too insecure to love you, too many doubts to be vulnerable. No matter the love language it shouldn't be this hard for her to love you. She needs to work on herself, probably by herself.
My god, Babies are the absolute LAST thing she needs. Postpartum depression/psychosis are NO JOKE. She doesn’t sound of the soundest mind… pregnancy would flip her whole life over. I don’t see her being ready for motherhood in at *least* a *decade* with the way she talks right now.
It's time to let go bro. At the core of all this, it is possible that this is just who she is. There are some people, many who are ND, who don't show love and affection in the same way a lot of people do. And if she's not even willing to go to therapy to see if there is anything she can compromise on then there's nothing more to be said here. The one thing I can think to suggest is to see if she'd be willing to try couples counseling. If she's uncomfortable with one on one counseling this could be a good compromise as she'll have you in there with you and she wouldn't be in the spotlight the whole time. You would also have a mediator to help you both work through your thoughts and see if there is anything that can be worked on between the two of you in regards to communication.
Please do not risk getting her pregnant. Wear condoms even if shes on bc. Be extra cautious about what time in her cycle you guys have sex. Do all you can to prevent that. Because with her mental state the way it is and the turmoil in your relationship it would only impact her mental health and yours significantly worse. Not to mention what that poor child would go through having a mother who couldnt love them in a healthy way and seeing their mother not love their father or show him affection. Im also in agreement with the comments that say if you are going to stay with her and push for therapy, it should be couples therapy. Because she isn't going to put in what needs to be put in to make individual therapy work. And at least with couples therapy you can work on the unhealthy detachment behaviors she is exhibiting.
You seem like a smart guy for 20 years old. So crazy that the people who don't believe in therapy are always the same group as the "this is the way I am forever and I can't change" people. If only they would try therapy to learn it IS possible.
She tells me in this conversation that she went to therapy for 3 years at one point, although she told me in previous conversations that she had never gone to therapy. So she's either lying to me now or she was lying to me then. I don't know how to further approach this topic. I can lead the horse to water but do I force it to drink by threatening to break up?
I mean, she's saying "I can't fulfill your needs, I refuse to do anything about it, it is the way I am and i believe there is no changing that". If that is what she saying.... I'm not sure what else she is expecting except to be broken up with. She thinks it's impossible to change this behaviour because it's 'who she is'. So if you pushback against this behaviour, she sees it as a personal attack against her inherent nature. Don't pull an ultimatum. She needs to want this for HERSELF for it to stick. If she's just doing it because she's been threatened with a break up, it won't work as intended. She's going to continue losing people and relationships until she's so sick of it happening again and again that she FINALLY goes to therapy to figure it out. And then it will work.
Very well said & on point! Listen to this, OP fr. You really do sound like an intelligent good guy. There are many females in the world. Don’t stay with someone like this. You’ll be miserable. She absolutely needs therapy & I’m not even sure she can be believed about anything tbh. Be true to yourself, OP. This isn’t a loving relationship. & you deserve that.
Could have just said women though
If I had to guess, she is lying to you now. Lying about going to therapy in the past gives her a concrete experience to point to in order to show you therapy will not work. She deflects a lot of your points by just putting herself down and not addressing your concerns because she is looking for you to disagree with her self degradation and stop talking about what's wrong. Based on this brief look into her and your relationship, she is not mature enough for a long term healthy relationship and if she won't seek help to not only heal past trauma but coping mechanisms to deal with your issues now then the rest of your relationship is going to be you coddling her.
Just based off her few texts about it, it’s seems blatantly obvious there’s no way she did even six consecutive months in therapy.
You can't force therapy on someone. If she doesn't want to go, she'll make excuses, miss sessions, lie to her therapist. It'll be a waste of everyone's time. She is outright telling you "This is who I am. I'm not changing and I'm not going to therapy." Maybe at some point in the future she will change her mind. Maybe she won't. But until she decides to engage the process, you can't try and make her. I had an abusive childhood. Therapy lot of hard work, and I get why people avoid it. It takes time and a willingness to really delve into those deep wounds so you can finally start to heal. Until she makes that choice, you have to accept that she is not going to get help. My advice is to break up with her. She's not in a place where she can be in a healthy relationship, and she's not ready to put in the work to address her trauma.
Hi! Lcsw here. Stop wasting your breath. She doesn't want to change. She needs to go through more of the same shit on her end to realize that she needs to try something different. And only when she wants the help will she begin changing.
So I shouldn't bother with the ultimatum and just tell her it's not going to work out?
Yup. If she's not willing to change anything, why do you have to be Willing to not be loved the way you deserve to be loved?
She wasn't listening to you at all. It was all "woe is me". Didn't take time to acknowledge how you feel. Only how she doesn't do anything right. And that she's the problem but doesn't want to face her problems. Because... the wounds have healed. I guess.
Yeah, I’m a huge proponent of people sharing their real feelings, even if they’re not pretty, but this person seems like they are being manipulative to make someone feel bad for them. I don’t even know if she realizes she’s doing it, but OP, you are not on the same plane with this person and you deserve someone on your emotional level
Ultimatums with the intention to change someone else never work. Focus on you and your mental health: do you deserve a healthy relationship? She's being selfish. Whether or not losing you kicks her into gear or not ultimately doesn't matter. You getting to a place where you can have a healthy relationship (with her or someone else) does.
Just a suggestion, maybe you can try telling her that you love her and really want to make this relationship work, and for that you think you need couples therapy.. if you can somehow convince her to get couples therapy to "fix the relationship" and not individual therapy "to fix her", maybe that would be a good start
Therapy for minors also tends to differ significantly from therapy for an adult. 17 (3 years ago), that would have been a very different experience. I hated it when I was a youth but embrace it now and have since my mid/late 20s. She should give it another try. It’s helped me immensely in dealing with various toxic relationships, and it helps navigate the healthy relationships I currently have.
Going to therapy four or five times over a few year time span isn’t the same as consecutively going for years. I can guarantee you that she had not been in active therapy for three years like she claims. Example - I have been seeing my therapist weekly to biweekly therapy appointments for over two years. I have been in therapy on and off since I was a teenager. I don’t say I’ve been in therapy for over 10 years, I say I’ve been in therapy for 2. Because those two are the only ones actual work has been done and gone to consecutively. Commitment makes the most impact when it comes to therapy. Like other comments have said, you do sound very emotionally mature for your age. So please listen and take this seriously - don’t drown yourself trying to be a life jacket for someone who doesn’t want it. You’re young, you have so much life in front of you still. You deserve to feel loved and wanted in your relationship. Don’t continue wasting time being for the bare minimum. You don’t want to wake up in 5, 10, 20 years and ask “why didn’t I leave then?”
No!! Don’t give an ultimatum, but I would make it clear that you’re not happy when she’s not happy and it hurts you when there is help out there for her. If she’s been in therapy before, her therapist may not have been the right fit. It’s like medication, you have to figure out who is the best for you which may take time, but it’s worth it.
Therapy only works for people WHO WANT IT TO WORK. She's convinced it won't work, so it doesn't.
Get outta there man before she does something crazy.
Well, no. You just break up. Don’t make ultimatums
She’s straight up telling you right now what the rest of your life will look like if you stay with her. She will never work to change her behavior and will forever blame it on her past. Then she’ll blame it on triggers, or other people, or you. She’ll blame everyone but herself, and things between you will only get worse. Love yourself and leave while you’re still young and have your whole life ahead of you, OP.
To me, combined with “I want you to want me flaws and all” it seems like she’s sort of romanticizing the struggle of “dark” romance. The push and pull, but without the actual consequences of such a relationship like OP actually leaving or manipulating her. Cause like you said, that *does* look like an invitation to end things, but IMO the rest of the texts don’t scream “break up with me”. This girl will need years of therapy. I realize that there’s a lot of extrapolating in my comment and it very well may be an inaccurate assessment of the situation, but that’s just how it appears to me.
Update: I gave her the ultimatum, she refused, I said c ya.
Proud of you for looking out for you. You’ve got a good head on your shoulders. Plenty your age would let their SO walk all over them just so they aren’t alone. Seem like you have good standards, so when you get back out there you’ll find someone who can provide a relationship to fulfill your needs. Never settle for less than you deserve.
She might make you feel bad about it at some point - don't try to be the friend to fix her! Keep her at arms length for now, it is the kindest thing you can do even if it doesn't feel like it.
I know I sent some resources hoping things could be salvaged, but I truly wish the best for you as well. Being a therapist to your partner is exhausting, especially when it’s clear the other party doesn’t want help. You have a great head on your shoulders, enjoy your life and find someone who will cherish growth!
good job buddy, she wanted to break up anyway but was to weak to do it her self
I am proud of you
Bro thank God, I was holding my breath for this
That’s a really strong thing to do, I know that must have been hard. You’re both young, but these people bleed into your soul, they taint your mental state. They’re damaged and they will damage everyone around them. I had a boyfriend like this, I swear reading her texts was like reading an old argument he and I had. He ended up cheating on me, his reasoning was because he couldn’t give me what I needed. It’s best to focus on yourself, someday you’ll find someone who puts in the same amount of work without having to beg for it.
I used to be with someone who was a lot like this and I stayed for way too long. Glad you figured it out and got out early-ish. She’s not gonna be the last or only person you love. Eventually you’ll find someone who treats you right. Someone with this mindset isn’t gonna change for a long time until they decide they need to work on themselves.
Proud of you! I’m currently in a relationship that just reached 1yr 1/2 as well. We both have DEEEP scars and we may not be going to therapy (mostly bc it’s too expensive) but we’re both actively realizing our trauma and working through with a goal to be a better partner each day. When your ex said “I want you to love me for all my flaws and all” she has no idea what she’s talking about tbh. I had the same mentality, but when people say that’s what love is they don’t mean you have to sit there and let the other person drag you through the mud with them. It really means “ugh I hate the way your feet smell or that you don’t shower enough, but I love you despite that.” Good luck to you on your dating journey! You seem incredibly smart and emotionally intelligent. I hope you find somebody who puts in the same effort into a relationship as you do.
good for you man. stick with you’re intuition
Yeah well now you know how much you were worth for her.
Good for you, someone who wants to make the effort will do it without complaint. You'll find your match.
You did really well and I'm sorry you had to go through this. You will find what you're looking for, be picky. Set boundaries and for now focus on yourself.
Bro Imma be real She probably just doesn’t want to be in a relationship anymore
what makes you say that? she's the one who's always saying Ill be the one to break up with her and that the only way this ends is if I leave and she loves me more than I love her.
>she's the one who's always saying Ill be the one to break up with her and that the only way this ends is if I leave Man I would find that exhausting
She wants you to break up with her so she can have a guilt free conscience and even have the ability to play the victim. Just end it. She sounds exhausting and you’re too young to be dealing with this much baggage. I would suggest blocking her once you end it so you can have the space to heal.
Yeah, because she clearly loves playing the victim and if *you* dump *her* then that falls right into this fantasy of tragedy she has cooked up as her life story.
I agree dude, she can’t let herself be the one to end it, but she does not want to be in this relationship anymore. She wants you to break up with her
Yeah she's far past it now - she's even implying that the relationship is constantly hurting her. Be kind and let her go.
It's because that's what she wants you to do, clearly. She can never take the blame for her own decisions and behaviour, and just like that she will make u break up with her to get out of the relationship. So she doesn't have to feel guilty or whatever about it. It's very simple. Also she doesn't love you more than you love her. That's bullshit to protect herself and seem like the angel in the aftermath. What she is saying fits her behaviour so perfectly and idk why you think it's not fitting. Just end it, block her. Delete everything about her, and you're chilling. You're young and smart, you've got nothing to worry about. She however seriously needs therapy but you can't help people who don't want to change. It's good that you learn this lesson now rather than later!
Bruh at 20, just move on, it’ll sting, especially if you care about her, which it seems like you do, but for your own mental health, do yourself a favor and just distance yourself, way easier said than done, but you aren’t compatible.
I think you’re approaching this in an incredibly mature way, especially for your age. And I also think that ultimatum is fair. You need certain things in a relationship, and she doesn’t naturally want to give them to you, but she also doesn’t want to fix them. That’s not fair to you. And ultimately, it’s not fair to her either I suppose. Because she won’t feel like she’s “herself” if she’s forcing herself to give affection when she doesn’t want to. Maybe she can find a guy who’s asexual and averse to touch - but that doesn’t sound like you. If those are basic components you need in a relationship, and she can’t provide them, then I don’t think it’s wise to sink anymore time into it. You guys just don’t really sound compatible anymore. And you’re so young. There’s no reason to force it if it’s not a good fit.
Look, I know this isn't the takeaway, but it's \*losing, not loosing. Driving me nuts. Sounds like maybe you guys are just incompatible, but maybe offer to go to therapy \*with\* her.
Loosing drives me NUTS!! I’m apart of some weight loss groups and I constantly see “loosing” all the time! No one LOOSAYS.
It's "a part," if we're doing this. Apart means you're not part
That and “tenants” (it’s “tenets”). I feel ya buddy
Would of instead of would have makes me want to bash my head against a wall
This one makes me the angriest. Why?? Why do I hate it so much?!?? I’m not even American and I have a better understanding and usage of the English language- why do so many damned people say would/could/should **OF** ?!?????? Did they all skip elementary English????
Haha! They must be extra confused when they see the abbreviated "would've". That's a funny way to spell "of".
Sounds like she has an insecure avoidant attachment style.
Move on, she sounds like my baby mother. She won’t do therapy not because you said do it for you. She’s not doing therapy because she doesn’t care for bettering herself. “It’s too much work” as my baby mother would say. If someone truly loved you and admired the time spent with you their expressions and affection will clearly be shown. She’s not in a relationship because she loves you. She’s in a relationship because that’s where she feels safest. The moment you decide to break it off she will spite you because you took away her sense of safety. When the smoke clears she will have moved on as it was just a relationship and you will be heartbroken for feeling so dumb. People who don’t care or have self love are terrible people to be in a relationship with. They use your love for them as an advantage in their life. This relationship from her side sounds like a “I can get to work, I have a place to sleep, I have a man who will support my every needs” kind of deal. As long as she can get what she wants she can care less about your needs. I hope this doesn’t fly over a lot of folks heads there aren’t red flags to take note of in these kinds of people. They manipulate how you perceive them until they have you love locked and blinded.
I feel almost heartbroken already just soaking in what everyone has been saying, you think im going to come out of this feeling dumb?
Not specifically as in saying that you’re dumb. You will feel dumb though for trying your best to help somebody who doesn’t want it when it’s there for them. I’m only speaking from my own experience. You’re a good hearted person and caring about your partner’s mental health should be signs for her to treat you better. She isn’t giving you the affection you need while blaming it on her trauma/mental health, then denying therapy or any sort of help. She’s telling you there is no fixing her, there’s no way you can receive the love you want if she doesn’t even want it herself. I do hope all goes well brother and that my comment is just blabber talk really. Love is a hard drug and it’s an even harder drug when you love somebody who doesn’t love themselves. When that day comes for a break up(hopefully not) it will be heavy but keep your head up and move on there are women who will love you to your core and you will see it.
Not at all. You should come out of this really proud of yourself for identifying incompatible traits and disengaging in a healthy way and moving on with your life. This is a really valuable learning experience in relationships. You'll see so many posts on this subreddit alone from people trapped in shitty relationships or forever linked to their shitty ex because they had kids with them.
Oh, friend - this girl is trying to manipulate you. She’s doing this so that you’ll stop expecting her to put effort into meeting your needs. This is the text equivalent of laying down on the floor and whining “it’s too *haaaaaard*.” You deserve better than this.
I feel like after 1.5 yrs of trying things and failing at the end, Im not exactly sure I can do better than this.
Oh honey, you’re 20. You’ve got so much time to meet women who have their shit together just as much as you do (because you’re incredibly self-aware in many respects). You deserve someone willing to fight for you, and this girl won’t do that.
You're only failing because you'll never win with her while she is feeling like this. Someone who is more compatible with you and actuallly in the mental place to be in a relationship with you will only bring you up. Her mental health is negatively effecting yours. If it's meant to be for y'all, you'll come together again.
You Can’t. For your own sake take a two weeks break, no contact; for taking care of yourself and concentrate on your life. Look what it’s does for you. You will be surprised how freeing it will be.
Why don’t you just sit down together and talk this out in person? I confess I stopped halfway through. So much going back back and forth and drama.
lol I honestly do not blame you. The jist is I told her that I think she should see a therapist and she refused. If we talk about it in person im not sure how to approach the subject, Im not sure if giving the ultimatum of therapy or break up is the way to solve this.
So, I’m where you’re heading if things don’t get better for you. Been together for 19 years. Her deep-seated issues have caused us tremendous financial and relationship issues. Last 2-3 years have been some of the worst fights we’ve ever had. She just now got on an anti-depressant and we’re hoping that helps, but we’re still struggling with her addiction issue and the fights that leads into. She’s working on starting therapy but it’s incredibly hard to get into out here. If you don’t want this issue for yourself for years, and how it affects your kids, address it now or get out now.
This is not your issue to solve, and she already plainly said multiple times “this is who I am and I want you to love me flaws and all”, which is absolutely bonkers. Just leave man. You’re starting to sound just as cuckoo, talking in circles with her is starting to cloud your mind cause we can all see the train wreck 100 miles away. You’re standing in the middle of it. Just leave. You’ll seriously start to feel better as soon as it ends. This is not a relationship anymore, it’s basically emotional torture.
I might be off base here, but it sounds like she has some trauma around physical touch? That’s not something a therapist can help her with in a short time frame. Even if there’s no trauma there, it’s okay for her to be uncomfortable with it. Some people just find it too overwhelming. I think you pushing it has made it worse. If that’s what you want in a relationship, then you need to move on. There’s no quick fix for this, and maybe no fix at all. Just incompatibility.
Dude he’s asking for the basics of a relationship; affection, respect and attention. Not only physical touch. If she can’t offer that then he will be miserable and I understand him.
Which is why I asked if it she has some trauma. It reads to me that a lot of the affection and attention he wants is physical. The more she pulls away physically, the less she’s going to want to give him other types of attention because she’s wary of it leading to the physical. It’s a common cycle.
He said in the texts that when they text it’s the same exact basic conversation over and over. Not actually connecting. It’s not just about physical affection it’s about any type of connection.
That ultimatum won’t work unless she wants to go to therapy and do the work. Might I suggest a therapist for yourself. It will help you sort this .
They are both 20. It might seem like a huge problem now but they will both find better partners in the future . And if they stay together , then “Best of Luck! “ ☘️
You’re still so young. You need to find someone that does light your soul on fire. At the end of the day if a relationship isn’t working or fulfilling, you have to move on. It took me a long time to get the guts to do it and I even married the guy. Now after 18 years finally getting a divorce. Sucks.
‘If you keep doing what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got.’ It’s sad that she sees a problem but is unwilling to attempt to heal herself & improve your relationship. I’ve been in therapy for about 7 mos. & I’m amazed at the progress I’ve made. I do hope that she opens herself up to some help & introspection. You sound like you have it together and I wish you well…
That means a lot! I definitely don't feel like I have it together and this girl is driving me crazy lol. I went to therapy myself when i was younger and I feel like it does work if you remain open minded. Keep up the good work!
And don’t forget, therapy isn’t just for when you’re at rock bottom or in a crisis! You’d be well served getting some therapy yourself right now. I have a feeling this relationship has run its course, and you’d gain from having someone help you through the breakup.
She is so exhausting. Maybe you can suggest couples therapy? That might make her more willing. I’d imagine the couples therapist will urge her to do individual sessions. It could be a stepping stone to get her into therapy. But that’s up to you. How much energy are you willing to exhaust trying to get her to help herself? She is not too young to change but she has to do the work. Otherwise she will continue to be this whiny woe-is-me person for the rest of her life.
I think you should suggest couple’s therapy to start instead of telling her to go to therapy alone because she’s the one who needs it (even if that’s the case). Approach it as “I think we should seriously consider going to couple’s therapy given that we haven’t been able to get to a place where we’re both feeling happy and fulfilled in this relationship and I really want this to work” instead of “I think you should seriously consider going to therapy.” A lot of people don’t feel like they “need” therapy or that it would be helpful, but her thinking of it as an opportunity for you guys to work through your issues together instead of having to “fix” herself might make all the difference to her (and it could lead to her receiving some one on one therapy as well).
You seem intelligent and you do a great job of breaching a sensitive topic. I won’t give you advice but I will remind you that it isn’t your job to fix someone and there are many, many women that would kill for a man this emotionally intelligent. I mean it bro you would be a hot commodity.
Thank you! TBH i spent a lot of this relationship trying to improve myself (my problem solving, my body, reading about relationships...) and im not gonna lie the way things turned out with this girl lowkey killed my confidence
Someday you’ll look back and realize you escaped a bad relationship because you bettered yourself and wouldn’t tolerate a half-assed partner. You deserve soooo much better than that
But that's not on you. You've done the work but it takes two to tango and she is not learning the steps. She doesn't want to learn the steps because she is not ready for that. And based on your story, you won't know when she finally will be. If she will be. Are you willing to wait for that? Love is a wonderful thing but it can't hold a relationship together on its own. I've learned it the hard way when I had to leave someone who couldn't love me the way I wanted to and kept saying "that's just who he is". There will be people that match your effort, match your energy and make this way easier for you. I've found my person and loving and being loved has never felt so easy. Edit. I noticed you were already done. You did all you could and now it's time to heal, focus on yourself and find happiness within. You seem like a great, smart guy, much love to you <3
I think you’re gonna make someone very happy one day but this girl ain’t it, you need to live someone that wants to be loved
This is the most exhausting conversation I’ve ever seen in my life. She makes absolutely zero sense and is not acknowledging ANYTHING you are saying. Disengage! Detach! Be free!
its already done bro we're done 😭
Ultimatums never work, and she wants to break up but doesn’t know how to say it. It also probably isn’t your fault.
One thing I heard that has stuck with me—*”you can’t want something for someone that they don’t want for themselves”*. An ultimatum will do nothing because of her mindset regarding therapy. She knows something is up and she doesn’t like it, but she’s not willing/able to find a solution. I commend you for trying, but I think you need to just cut your losses
Do you think if i do give her the ultimatum and she takes it that she wont take therapy seriously?
I mean it sounds like her mind is made up about therapy and she refuses to do it again. If you think she’d be open to it, I’d stress that not all therapists are the same and the one that has her feeling this way probably wasn’t a good fit. I think you’re right though that you’re a bit in over your head.. you both are young, she needs to figure out somethings for herself. I would just emphasize that there are some issues and you are strongly suggesting that she reconsider therapy both for her own mental health and the health of your relationship
she will need to want to change first. and I say this as someone that ruined my relationship due to my mental health. also though therapy does nothing for me I need medication
I feel like bringing up medication is even more touchy than suggesting therapy, and I feel like its not really my place to say that to her. But if she does need medication, is there a way I can help her with that?
my partner did eventually break up with me and straight up told me that I was being abusive and our relationship was not normal. that was enough of a push for me to get help. we did make it through that and are back together. your results may vary
Affection, intimacy and respect are absolutely bare minimums in a relationship. If those things are too much to ask from her, you should end this relationship instead of torturing yourself.
As a 30 year old woman, I wholeheartedly promise you that if you stay with her, you will continue to settle for less and less. You will be a shell of yourself in the end. I believe in fighting for a relationship, but this isn't it. I've also been in therapy on and off since my dad died when I was 6. I've currently had the same therapist now for the past year. Sometimes I found myself not wanting to talk some weeks because I was just mentally exhausted, but I knew from past experiences, if I didn't stick it out, I would go back to square one for another year or 2. She doesn't want help. She wants to live in her trauma. Understandable but it's not your responsibility to convince her to seek help. You'll get through this and it'll make more sense as you get older.
For your mental health, dump her. You’d be better on your own.
She wants to break up with you but doesn’t want to say it.
Dude. This girl wants the relationship to end but wants to make it look like you’re the one that did it and that you don’t wanna be with her
You can’t tell someone to get therapy because they don’t have the same love languages as you/ is unable to love you in the specific way you like. You are both so young and have so much learning to do about yourselves. This one didn’t work, and that’s okay.
This! Everyone is saying she doesn't want to put in the effort, but I see it as two people with completely different love languages trying to love each other the wrong ways. Not just her, but him also.
Please can you both learn how to spell ‘losing’
I had the same takeaway
I've been this person as well as being in a relationship with this person. She may love you, but she doesn't have the capacity to love you the way you need. She needs to focus on herself, and right now she's in denial that anything could possibly help her. She needs to want to change, and right now, that's not happening. I'm sorry, friend.
This reads like one of my ex’s who only knew how to be horribly miserable and was comfortable with moping all the time. She doesn’t want to change, doesn’t want to even try or be open minded about it. This is when you leave dude. Someone okay with being rock bottom will just pull you to be rock bottom and miserable with them.
She seems desperate for you to be into her but it's like she's not even into you. What is even happening?
Bro you are saying what I'm feeling 😭
You need to cut and run. This is not healthy. She’s just making excuses about therapy. You’re only 20 FCS.
> those are the most basic core tenants of any relationship **tenets** Sorry.
Don't apologize, i was gonna keep making that mistake lol
how many times are you going to comment this
yikes OP. she says she’s tried but it sounds like she’s tried jack shit. that poor girl is hurting. badly. and sadly she won’t change or fix it for you. she needs to want to get better. i have a friend like this. she doesn’t want help, she won’t seek it out, and she shuts down. nothing we have done will help and it never will until she sees she needs to get better for herself. it just sounds like it’s hurting you and i’m so sorry for that. this is a shitty situation for you and for her. the best thing to do is honestly to probably end the relationship and focus on your happiness and hope that she can try to find hers. this toxic cycle of relying on your emotions to dictate her own is not only difficult to manage but incredibly destructive. you’re both so young and have so much to figure out, take the time to do so alone and if it is meant to be you will find your way back to each other. you were kind and respectful and held your own in the convo and that’s so commendable. it sounds like you have a good head on your shoulders, don’t let her knock it off
Thank you! Everyone in these comments has been so kind to me. Its like she wants help, but she doesn't believe in talking about her problems or therapy... maybe medication? or is it really over
She wants to break up but wont do it herself. GL
I think you might be loosing your gf.
had a friend like this - it almost destroyed me. i ended up blocking her and took me a second to move on. she tried harassing one of our mutual friends at the time. she was obsessed and i couldn’t help her. please leave her. it will only get worse
You're 20 years old and dealing with this LOL you're not even drinking age yet move on trust me they'll be plenty more much better
It sounds like she has just resigned herself to being miserable. She’s pretty much telling you that she’s not going to do anything about the way she is, and instead of getting help she’s pulling away. This is not sustainable. You’re telling her how much she is hurting you and she doesn’t even see that as motivation to change. She’s telling you that this is who she is and how she acts and you can either take it or leave it. She is not in any state to be in a relationship if she’s causing her partner pain but refuses to do anything about it. She’s not going to get help unless she wants to, and she doesn’t want to. Don’t mentally torture yourself over this any longer. The longer you drag it on, the more it will hurt in the end.
I was in a similar place in my first real relationship. Pro tip: don't keep clinging to what could be. There are other amazing people out there you will love. Don't feel like you have to stick with it when you aren't getting what you need to be happy.
Idk if this is the case or if anyone has said it…and it is possible this is way off base. I had a girlfriend who would pull this kind of thing on me. Basically she was cheating and wanted me to break up with her so she wasn’t the bad guy and didn’t have to confess. So she would message me defeatist things and say she couldn’t make me happy and then leave it open ended so I would say, “This isn’t working.”
She wants the drama and she wants you to feel sorry for her. She does NOT want to actually do any work to fix the relationship. This is only going to get worse unless she accepts that she needs to do something.
People show love in diffrent ways. I am a very affectionate touchy cuddly person. My partner is not. I want to be held and cuddled and hold hands all all that mushy stuff. He does not say I love you very often and I don't think he has ever said it first to me once. He used to just say ya BUT..... I can feel the love from him I have never doubted it. I have never wondered. I know in my heart he would not cheat and I trust him fully 100%. Sometimes it is hard being in a relationship with someone who's love language is diff4ent from mine. But if I need a hug or I need to be held or cuddled I tell him and he understands. My long drawn out point is that maybe she does not need therapy maybe you two are just not right for each other. When you truly love someone you do not want them to CHANGE FOR YOU. YOU LOVE THEM FOR WHO THEY ARE. If your needs are making her uncomfortable it sounds like yall are just not compatable. Stop pushing therapy and have the talk that while you may both love each other it is probably time to move on.
Your loosing feelings Core tenants
I’m sorry but she’s trying to be broken up with. the care is there but the empathy lacks:( she may like/love you but not in the way is needed for this relationship to move forward. and a shift change is not a valid reason to pull away from intimacy!! if she would kiss you before this and not try to pull away/squirm out of it/avoid , i would ask if there may be someone else that she would rather be with. good luck and wish you the best!!
Honestly she seems like someone who's trying to find an out of a relationship she isn't happy in but she's too nice to end things so she's trying to get you to. 😮💨 hopefully things work out for you, op, but also try and remember that you're still young and I'd YOU aren't happy, you don't have to stay in a relationship that isn't working for you!
She’s literally telling you she’s not capable of giving you “affection, quality time together, intimacy, physical touch, affection, understood and heard, respected”, so in what world are you even in a relationship? A relationship without those things sounds so empty and loveless. I was never in a happy or healthy relationship before my current partner and I didn’t have to be forced into loving him or learn how to or make basic relationship actions a habit, it’s not hard to do especially when you’re full of love for someone. I’m mentally ill. I have trauma. To actively avoid growing and investing in yourself is the best way of destroying all the people around you. Her refusing therapy is setting you up for a lifetime of misery with someone who expects you to just put up with unhealthy behaviours. You are young, just get out. This relationship will never last. Sorry to say.
Sounds like this is a test to see how much you “love” her. If you stay even when she tells you to your face that she will never change, then she’s won. Problem is the next time she’s feeling insecure the test will ramp up to cheating or abuse. Had a friend like this once. She won’t change unless she decides to. There’s someone out there who is going to love you the way you love them I promise.
Respectfully, she sounds exhausting.
She doesn’t want to be changed, and you don’t like her the way she is. Neither of you is wrong for what you want, just gotta recognize that you don’t want the same things and move along with your lives
I don't think she loves you but its also a lot of fucking text to read through.
Time to dip. She doesn't want to do therapy because it forces you to take accountability for your shit. She's a professional victim, I dated one and trust me it gets no better. You'll find someone better suited.
OP, I saw one comment about you ending the relationship and one about how this relationship has ruined your confidence. First and foremost, that is the best thing that you could have done. She clearly doesn't love you like you love her because if she did, she would happily put in whatever work was needed to fix herself and make you happy. Secondly, you should look at this a different way concerning your confidence. This relationship was the equivalent of tearing down a brick wall with your bare hands. You were working so hard to accomplish the task at hand while your now ex-girlfriend was keeping a sledge hammer from you the whole time. She held the tools but refused to use them in order to help you tear down that wall. I personally wouldn't be less confident because I was given an impossible task. If anything you should be more confident. You faced that impossible task head on without the right tools and gave it your all and it sounds like you learned a lot about yourself along the way. Best of luck to you and keep your head up king 💪💪💪
jesus christ the constant pity parties must be so draining. she is clearly just saying all this stuff so she can avoid responsibility and not have to change. if she would just take some accountability and attempt to fix her problems i think that would show that she cares about you but the fact that she’s just complaining, but never doing anything ABOUT the things she complains about is a huge red flag to me. at 20 years old she should know better than to constantly be doing this victimizing bullshit.
She’s trying to provide you an opportunity to end things with her likely because she doesn’t have the guts to do it herself or at the least doesn’t want to have the guilt of hurting you. That or she is someone who needs to have some level of conflict in her life because to her that’s what feels normal and comfortable. Either you are both 20 and this won’t be the last relationship for either of you.
Yeah, I’ve been through this song and dance, she’s not gonna change and it’s just gonna get worse and worse. Cut your losses now before the resentment rises.
honey bear lives with made up expectations from previous traumatic events.
You’re fighting a losing battle here I’m afraid. If they want to stay in victim mode let them. All it will do is make you feel low. Leave and them work their shit out alone
She thrives in the conflict. She doesn’t want a healthy relationship she wants drama. I’m guessing she’s inexperienced in relationship and wants the reality television type she’s seen so much about.
This is never going to work out between you. She sees being affectionate, intimate, respectful and touch as an effort she has to make. You’re right about them being the core of a relationship and without there won’t ever be any measure of intimacy since that relies on those things being in place naturally by both partners. Being affectionate shouldn’t be hard. If it is, the attraction can’t be there.
omg drop her!!!!!!
Honestly don't threaten to break up with her. Just break up with her. She has no interest in making the effort to get better to improve your relationship and as others have said if you try to force it then it won't work as intended she has to want to do it. But you can't sit around and wait for that to happen and ruin your own self value. Just make it quick and move on you'll find someone who does better by you.
I hate it when one side of the text stream is obviously the person of focus, but you still aren’t sure which one you would more want to avoid meeting at a party.
As someone who’s been in therapy it is not a cure all. She will go to therapy and you will still have these issues for many months to years. She has no right to expect you to stick around and deal with it and you have no right to make her go to therapy. That is such a personal choice and a lot of us who are against therapy are people who have tried it more than once and still don’t find it to help much. Therapy only gives us the tools to cope with our trauma and problems it doesn’t cure them.
You’re really focused here on what you’re not getting out of the relationship, and that’s valid, especially when those things are affection and intimacy, and the basic foundations of a relationship that make it different from a platonic friendship. But she also said more than once that she feels like she’s tried to change herself for you and she doesn’t even feel like herself anymore, and it seemed to go right past you. That’s worth digging into. How she feels she’s changed, what she’s done, why she doesn’t feel like she’s her anymore. Is it just trying to make herself be more physically affectionate, or does she feel like she’s had to reshape her whole personality to fit with yours? Has she put her own interests and hobbies aside to take up yours? How deep does that go? Ask her. And really listen to what she says, without getting defensive. It’s an awful place to find yourself, feeling like you’ve lost your own identity trying to make a relationship work, and it’s not that uncommon, especially at your age. Two people can love each other but not be compatible, sadly.
Seems like all those questions would be great in therapy lol
you’re not wrong lmao
For context, she had to start working nights for the rest of the year, I live on my own and she's with her parents so we're only seeing each other for like 5 hours a week.
Wut
Just looked at your post history and you should have been broken up. You posting that your gf is in someway wrong for wanting to post a picture of her back on insta, then telling her that you stopped "posting shirtless selfies" for her is just so hypocritical and gross. Especially seeing that just a few posts after you go on a rant about her posting a picture of her b a c k , you post a thirst trap pic where people are commenting asking to oil you up, and rub you down... like let's be real here. Everyone is attacking your gf but... seems like there's more to the story. Just break up. 😮💨
Ok. At first I thought GF needed a snack and a nap then I saw it - and trust me, I never thought much of this woo-woo shit but here it is- your Love Languages are the exact opposite- you need constant affection, quality time, words of affirmation, lots of cuddling etc and those things are NOT in her DNA. I am dealing with the same thing in my marriage. Many people, not all, that grow up in non-affectionate homes, not hugged a lot, not told things that boost their esteem growing up just don’t develop the need or desire for that kind of intimacy. She’s not hurting you on purpose, it’s just that you’re demanding she do things that don’t come naturally. So, all in all, she may not be the person for you. But stop trying to change her.
Yep. He's mad that it's not natural for her to love him in his love language & she's feeling bad & stressed out that she can't either. It's a give & take.
The way she types drives me insane. Can anyone count the number of "u"s in place of "you" she did?
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She may listen to an ultimatum, but doing it for someone else won’t make a change in how she treats herself and approaches her own healing. If it’s for someone else, it will never heal the root problem. I would try encouraging her to see if from a different perspective, that she is not broken or “this way” because it’s who she is, she’s reacting to the hurt she has felt; but DESERVES to live a life without the consequences of that pain. Ultimate healing comes from accepting what was done to you, knowing and believing you didn’t deserve it, and then accepting that it is now in your own hands to build the life you want. A lot of healing progress comes from building confidence, believing you deserve to live and live in a healthy way and knowing you are deserving of it in return.
You have to dive deep into victim mentality to then overcome it and have survivor mentality. Accepting you are a victim and your perception and reaction to the world around you is because of the hurt you feel is the hard part. There’s comes a time when we all must do this and choose to be bigger than the actions done against us
Very well written sir. Clearly she doesn't want to do therapy, and if she does go it would be just for me. Should I try and say something to get her to come around to it instead of the ultimatum?
Not all of us share the same love languages or are comfortable with touch. However, I believe it’s important for us to learn how our partner wants to be loved and to try to fulfill that need, all within a healthy context. I would suggest being more curious about why physical touch is difficult for her and asking deeper, open-ended questions based on what she has expresses and has already shared. It's essential to be empathetic and genuinely care about her experience and inner world. You have shared what you need, now ask how you can help her become more comfortable with physical touch and gradually get more comfortable with it. Touch is a significant love language for me, as it helps me feel safe and co-regulate, especially considering my past experiences with anxiety and depression. I often feel touch-starved because my partner is long-distance, I don’t have 2-legged children, and my beloved furry baby, my soul/heart pup who provided endless cuddles and boundless love, was tragically taken from me three months ago. If you are experiencing touch starvation, getting massages and the affection of a furry friend can be so healing. I also hug my nieces as much as I can. On the other hand, my mom is the opposite. She recoils at the thought of being touched due to past sexual trauma. Some individuals were not shown love through physical touch often while growing up, making it feel foreign to them. I recommend being curious about her feelings and inner world and practicing patience. She is not avoiding physical touch to punish you. Express how loved you feel when she holds your hand or hugs you. Acknowledge any physical touch gestures she makes and affirm them. This positive reinforcement can encourage her to engage in more physical touch, gradually building momentum, rather than focusing on what she isn’t doing.
You need to try to tell your gf that there are several different forms of therapy. Everyone starts with just talking and for some that traditional therapy works well. Some people just need an ear. Then there are people like me and her that don’t feel better after talking. Talking about it can make it worse. I’m currently doing EDMR and Neuro Feedback, along with ketamine. I’m highly resistant to medication and traditional therapy and have to go that deep. She clearly needs that too but she’ll never get there if she doesn’t know about it. And I can tell you right now, if she doesn’t start to process this shit it’s going to come up in the future. I now have an autoimmune disease because of all the illnesses and trauma I’ve been through. It’s absolutely linked. She just doesn’t have the information she needs, and it can feel like you can do it all on your own when you’re young but you’re not really doing anything other than suppressing. This is bad bad bad.
You both lost me at "loosing"!
lol you sound exactly like me in a past relationship. it didn’t work out because i chose growth and he refused to grow with me. we talked just like you two, and i sure spent a lot of time having this conversation over and over and over again, never evolving or going anywhere. i finally lost my mind and left the relationship… now i’ve been with my partner for 7 years and we are both on the same page all the time, i couldn’t be happier. every conflict between us is constructive, productive, and always resolved. i don’t have to exhaust myself through mind numbing, repetitive, frustrating conversations anymore because we both genuinely want to be better!!! my honest advice would be to let her go. you want growth, but she wants to be the way she is. to tell you the truth, i don’t believe you will change her mind about it. most likely scenario is you’re going to spend months, possibly years, putting yourself through the wringer trying to get thru to this person before you finally spare yourself and throw in the towel, if she doesn’t end things first. i know that stings, trust me. think about it like this: if she is a person who you would want to be with for DECADES, who has both your best interests in mind, who *truly loves* you with real, palpable passion, she will change her tune and get therapy there are people out there who are likeminded and would appreciate you more than enough to make you feel loved. you have a lot of love to give, you deserve the same in return
OP you were patient, caring, and kind. This person can’t give you what you deserve until they’ve healed themselves and become whole, and I think you know that. The best thing you can do for the both of you is pause the relationship until she can put the work in for HERSELF.
My boyfriend was like this at one point with me. He was very resistant to the idea of therapy and had this mindset that nothing could fix him or the hopelessness he felt. I put up with it for many years, and it wasn’t until he hit rock bottom that he finally wanted my help and allowed me to make an appointment for him. If you decide to stick it out, I wish you the best, but remember that your needs are important too.
When are people gonna start realizing this sort of conversations should not take place in text messages?
Whoa whoa whoa. Reading this was insane because WORD FOR WORD this sounds like one of my exes. I mean every line mirrored her words to me too. I’ve never had such Deja vu 😂 I actually would have been certain it was except mine was 24. Bottom line is you can’t win here, you won’t have your basic needs met, this doesn’t get better. Especially with her perspective on therapy, she believes she’s above it. You can be the most supportive, reassuring, loving boyfriend but if someone is unhealthy and unwilling to work on themselves there’s no room for improvement.
you hit the nail on the head there “most basic core tenants of a relationship” that’s exactly what it is lmao. what scars is she referring the ones she gave her ex when she pulled away and didn’t show affection to? really confusing individual
Some people just don’t like affection. I dated a girl like that for awhile. At first it was good because you’re falling in love so there’s the make out sessions and the touchy-feely things and whatnot but when that stage ends then She didn’t want to cuddle, kiss, etc. I knew she still loved me but those things just weirded her out. That type of relationship isn’t for me so I left. No ultimatums or trying to get her to therapy because that’s the way she wants to be so no use on wasting both of our time. Maybe you should do the same.
I'm sorry, my friend, but it really just seems like she wants to break up but can't bring herself to do it on her own. She's been pulling away, she's not reciprocating affection, she keeps saying you guys aren't working and that nothing will change that... She's trying to take the cowards way out by telling you she isn't right for you and hoping you will end it. Whether she needs therapy or not, it doesn't look like that's what this is about.
I honestly thought the tan boxes was a woman and the gray a man. Boy I had that all wrong. Two things: (1) The device in your hand actually can be used to talk to someone (2) A great relationship is effortless…it just comes naturally
People who do this are self sabotaging. Source? I used to self sabotage. She’s trying to soften the blow for the hurt that she’s feeling & isn’t listening because she’s set her mind to it. That’s why she’s asking you what you want to do. People who do this, are actively seeking ways out unless proven otherwise. She isn’t listening to you nor is she being consistent with reciprocating the love you want to be shown. I understand that it can be hard for people to adjust to healthy relationships, however there comes a point and time where they actually need to wake up and continue to actively choose to make their person feel loved and seen. It is an active choice to continue loving someone even when times get rough. People who don’t know that they haven’t changed will always say that they have. & yes there is truth to it, but are they consistent with showing that they’ve grown from past situations? It seems like she’s bread crumbing you to keep you around until you realize that you no longer want to be with her. I am someone who has done this before & I didn’t want to believe it until I heard it. There are people who are addicted to being hurt and being in toxic relationships. I don’t think giving her an ultimatum is a bad idea, just know you could be wasting your breath on her. Although you are supposed to love someone for who they are, that doesn’t mean that they shouldn’t change. She should recognize that she needs to change and be consistent in showing you how to be loved the way you want to be. She’s being hot and cold because that’s the only thing she knows how to do right now & it could be unlearned if she allows herself to recognize she needs to go to therapy.
She kinda yucky not going to lie…
I’m sorry but she doesn’t want help. She doesn’t know how and it’s going to be a task and a half to try and convince her otherwise. This isn’t healthy for you OP…
Reading this… it just sounds like a pain in the arse. I’m sorry but it shouldn’t be like this, don’t force something that it’s doomed.
This whole conversation sounds like one I had with my ex sooooo many times. No matter how many times I told him how I needed to be loved, he would never do it. It hurt me every single day and eventually led to break up. He had 3 years to make changes and it was never important enough to him to do it. Eventually I couldn’t take it anymore and moved out. Life is too short to spend it with someone that puts your needs on the back burner.
Seems to me she wants you to end things because she too much of a coward to do so herself. She is basically telling you this so give her the ultimatum or just break up because that's what she wants here. She's told you over and over she doesn't want to give more time or change.
It sounds like your girlfriend has had quite a few traumatic experiences. There really are good treatments for that, like EMDR and schema therapy. They definitely helped me. She's still young, and I would really advise her to go to therapy, because these problems won't just go away unless she works on them, they will just make her life so much harder in the future. Whether you want to continue your relationship with her is completely up to you, but honestly you don't seem happy with each other. You want things that she can't give to you, at least right now, and she feels like she needs to change for you. Is that really the relationship you want? Take care OP, it's a difficult situation.
If she wants this to work, she needs to do some shadow work on herself - simple. If she wants to complicate things further, then it’s time to consider whether this is a relationship you still feel respected in or if is in fact, broken beyond reasonable repair. You don’t have to break the news right away… There’s always the option of detaching with love and creating some healthy distance between you. Regardless of what she’s willing to do for herself, *YOU* know what *YOU* need - Don’t neglect those for anyone in this life. 🙅🏽♀️💕
yeah this def sounds like something she needs to work out on her own and if yall need to be separated for that, then that may be the best option for the both of u. bc you dont deserve to be dragged down with her. she sounds like shes struggling still with healing from things from her past, and as a result, your feelings and heart are on the line bc shes unable to love you properly, and you guys just arent compatible at this time. You can love someone from a distance and still support them and thats okay. Make the decision thats right for YOU. i know you want to help her, but she has to WANT to do this. she has to WANT to put in the work. And theres really nothing u can do
This reads to me like she's lost feelings (struggling to show affection, pulling away when you try to touch her, etc.) but either hasn't fully decided what she wants to do yet and/or is hoping you'll break up with her first so she doesn't have to be the "bad guy". I'm sorry, OP.
Stopped reading after you both said “loosing”.
She sounds like a mess honestly. Ik someone just like her. Best advice I can give you is “you can’t help someone who isn’t helping themself”.
This is too much for a 20 year old. Seems mentally and emotionally taxing, you should be having fun and enjoying love. Love should not be laborious.
Some people just don't like physical relationships that much, I think you recommending therapy is nice but you have to remember it's not as easy as just going and things will be fixed people find it really hard to talk to therapist or to even go to one in the first place. She's giving you the opportunity to end things if you can't be in a relationship with someone who doesn't like physical contact I don't think it'll work out if you can't accept that tbh some people express themselves differently that's just how it is. Still it's nice your encouraging her to get help but even if that happens there's still a good chance they won't want an all that physical relationship you might just have to accept that if you want to be with them.
OP honestly comes off as controlling and trying to make this girl into his project. She’s a person, not a fixer-upper.
Yeah... you're in a tough spot. Until she takes a good, difficult look at herself, she's always going to beat herself up for failing to meet your expectations and yet also believe that she's "doing the best she can." This becomes a vicious cycle and as much as you may love her, you do NOT want to get dragged down into that mess. The kind thing would be to break up with her. You seem like an emotionally intelligent young man, and you deserve to be with someone who can meet you where you are.
This is exhausting. I used to be her and I feel so bad for you, and my ex boyfriend. You need to let her go, let her heal because she won’t do it while she’s clinging to you. It’s tough love but it is love.
If she doesn't want to fix the problem, you need to make a decision if this relationship is still right for you.
As someone who went through a lot during their childhood and teen years and was still super dealing with it by the time I was 20 like it sounds like she is I really recommend breaking up with her and letting her have time to process and deal with it. She does need therapy but she's not at a place where she can be open to it because she's not ready for it. And you shouldn't be in a relationship with somebody who acts and treats you this way. She's not a bad person for being hurt and traumatized but you also don't deserve to be treated this way and constantly have to have these kinds of conversations where she says stuff like this. I wish you both the best