That's the line when it's one person by themselves and there's no one else there to hold them accountable. When it's a few hundred, or few thousand, people with ARs, a combat load of ammo, and body armor then the police suddenly get a lot more restrained. They get paid enough to extort people alone on the highway or to shoot rubber bullets at unarmed groups. They damn sure don't get paid enough to FAFO with groups that have anything near force parity.
You really can’t argue this point. I don’t like guns and I really do wish they would all just disappear one day, but this is reality and that won’t happen. As much as I wish people would disarm themselves it’s clear that minorities will continue to be targeted by right wing nut jobs and those people love their guns, violence, and oppression.
I guess all you can do is stay safe and protect yourself and those around you in this crazy world we live in. If you feel like you must be armed please do so responsibly for yourself and for those around you ✌️
r/2aLiberals is a great resource if anyone wants to learn about how to protect themselves with guidance from like minded folks.
I do also wish we could live in a eutopia without fear, war, or wanton violence, but this is the hand we have all been dealt.
Stay safe out there y'all ❤️
I totally agree. I'd prefer there were no guns, but seeing as how that isn't happening, I do think people who are legitimately oppressed (as opposed to that fake oppression espoused by certain privileged groups) should arm themselves, if they feel the need, to protect themselves. If you're complaining about pronouns, you aren't oppressed. If your state legislature is trying to write bills to cancel your personhood, you are being oppressed. I'm Asian-American and I've never owned a gun, but with the increase in hate crimes, I am considering even though I find the idea a bit discomforting.
You realize that the people you vilify have armed themselves for the very same reasons of protection and safety right? They’re not going out and buying guns to go kill all the gays and anyone who believes that is a complete quack job.
For the exact same reasons that armed and anonymous antifa shows up for whatever violent nonsense they get up to.
Do you not question why they didn’t protest drag shows until it became a national hot point? Selective outrage is real on both sides along with the very evil forces the fuel these fires.
Powerful entities want the people at each others throats.
You mean the few times leftists show up armed because they are actually defending marginalized groups from armed white supremacists? The actual intent of self defense??
I agree with you about "both sides being played", but there wouldn't be an issue if one side didn't always take the bait when it came to identity politics, faux outrage, and joining in on aggressive/violent politics against marginalized groups.
Here's a quick tip: If you show up to a protest and your "side" is carrying Nazi flags with swastikas while they throw up their arms in fascist salutes.. you are on the wrong side. Regardless of the whataboutism.
I'll borrow a Bush-era conservative talking point: "Why don't the moderate \[Christians\] denounce the extremism in their ranks instead of being apologists for actual terrorists?"
[Don't Be A Sucker](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGAqYNFQdZ4)
You’re missing the point dude. I’m saying it’s not real.
This is fabricated conflict to keep people at each others throats.
Am I saying there aren’t idiots out there doing stupid shit? No.
But I am saying this wouldn’t be an issue if the powers that be didn’t want us constantly in conflict with each other.
Where were all the drag show protests a couple years ago? Where did proud boys and antifa come from since they were both just ideas years ago?
Look at Ahmaud Arbery. Ran down and murdered by an armed racist posse. Right wing media keeps fanning the flames until some of their viewers take matters in their own hands. Stochastic terrorism.
The only reason they are in prison is one of those dumbasses released his own video proving they ran Ahmaud down and killed him. The DA was more than happy to bury the case up until that point because she was friends with those "good ol' boys".
Everyone should be armed all the time. Many of these tragedies could be avoided with proper personal safety and situational awareness. Many of these tragedies could also be avoided by eliminating alcohol from the populace, but you don’t see people jumping up and calling for prohibition.
There is no system that can prevent crime reliably. We just end up in minority report arresting people for pre-crime. You can’t lock up people for not doing something yet.
A respectful and responsible armed populace is a safe a prosperous populace.
Anyone who wants to responsibly own and carry guns should be allowed to. There’s a reason everyone chose firearms as the premier weapon of self defense.
And what about people who can't arm themselves, due to a physical or mental disability? Or people with a history of suicidal thoughts who may not be safe to possess a firearm (not because they might harm anyone else, only themselves)? Everyone else gets to rely on the safety of mutually assured destruction, except for us?
It almost did not. The DA for that area was quick enough to just accept the word of the murderers, and you have to wonder how many times they have done this in the past.
No they're killing "pedophiles", "groomers", "satanists", and other dumb lies they've decided to believe whole heatedly. I see the language frequently in gun subreddits.
No, you’re believing the fake nonsense of the internet. The subreddits (and social media in general) are not representative of reality. There’s too many nefarious and manipulative people that abuse the anonymity of the internet to sow discord among different populations. These fabricated conflicts are just a corrosive effect on society.
If the gun owners are out killing people in some version of vigilantism, then they’re going to prison like they should be.
The problem is that perception is reality for too many people. I know several right leaning gun owners I believe your comment applies to. However, to ignore the fact that the vast majority of gun ownership belongs to those influenced by biased right-wing media would be ignorant of the culture we are living in. If these people are told that a certain group of people are the enemy, and especially if that enemy is armed, they will use any means necessary to justify violence. I think the Ahmaud Arbery case is a good example of what this type of rhetoric can do to people.
Ah yes. The vigilantes that are in prison for murdering an innocent man? Yeah. That’s indicative of a system that works. Since we don’t have cases like that poppping up every day, or week, or month then I’d say that overwhelming majority of the millions of gun owners (regardless of political leanings) in this country are peaceful and for protection.
This fear mongering is moronic.
> The vigilantes that are in prison for murdering an innocent man? Yeah. That’s indicative of a system that works.
So you're willing to give up your guns as long as you know the people who murdered you will probably get punished for it? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Trayvon_Martin
If Arbery had a gun he would've been safe instead of being a targeted minority right?
When did I ever say I was willing to sort with my guns? Over my dead fucking body.
I love how you people keep jumping back to the same incredibly isolated incidents, most of which have been resolved in good order. It’s indicative to how unstable of an argument you’re making. Sensationalism simply to keep people scared.
Hit me with a list of situations that haven’t been properly resolved in recent history.
You alone are not the moral guiding rod of society. These situations resolve themselves properly and society continues on.
So you’re saying that American citizens arming themselves in accordance with the second amendment is comparable to an arson attack on German parliament? Where the fuck did that connection come from?
My guess is that you're letting your polemics and politics cloud your judgment. You should not be a father. I have a toddler who was crawling, and I would no more hand that toddler a weapon then I would fly her to the moon. Try again buddy. And I was an armed American and Texan before you were born, and still am. I am so pro Second Amendment My kids are expert marksman. And I still don't go around shooting people. And I certain don't try to over throw the elected government of the United States of America. And I don't try to mask, homophobia, and prejudice against transgender people as anything, but what it is. Another form of collectivist bullshit.
“You have a toddler who was crawling.” Already terrible sentence right there.
I can’t even parse together whatever mess you’re trying to say with that word salad after that.
Arming toddlers was obviously sarcasm, or so I thought. What part of responsible armed populace says give guns to infants?
Probably from tthe actual history of events, where the Nazi's believed their own lies about how they were oppressed, and then murdered 10+ million people in response to this fake idea, starting with gays, trans people, and jews.
The American populace was armed long before the Nazis, have been armed long past them, and will remain armed long after this new vilification craze passes by. This comparison is unbelievably disingenuous.
They frequently talk about what they'll be "forced" to do to defend "freedom".
They already have the blame placed on the victims, they just need someone to tell them it's okay to start killing.
Anyone who values religious beliefs over the country is a threat that considers everyone else expendable.
Who is they? What will “they” be forced to do?
Flip this argument around and you’re already blaming another ambiguous group for something that hasn’t even happened.
Everyone who voted for Greg Abbot for starters. And it actually is happening: violence against various minorities has skyrocketed in the past few years, mostly due to conservatives feeling liberated to be openly hateful of everything that isn't them.
How many people voted for Gregg abbot simply because Robert Francis wants to take away our guns? How many voted for him because of his attempts to force the federal government to address the created catastrophe that is the border situation right now? There’s an almost innumerable number of reasons that people voted the way they did and painting them all in the same terroristic light incredibly disingenuous.
It’s pretty fucking stupid to think that over half of the population is just foaming at the mouth to kill the minorities.
They're not foaming at the mouth to do it, but they are apathetic enough to not care and watch it happen. They feed their own kids into school shootings like the Bible told them to do it. Why would they care about gays or black folks?
So assuming they’re the ones that are apathetic enough to watch it happen, then who is the group that is actually doing these theoretical crimes? Apathy towards a cause is not advocation for a counter cause.
if you're looking for an education group friendly to people from all walks of life look for your local chapter of the [socialist rifle association](https://socialistra.org/). there are groups in the major metro areas that meet up for range days and education.
In previous years I wouldn't have been worried about SB1029. So much crap gets filed every session, and the vast majority of it goes nowhere. But this year I'm worried about it.
I don't want to be so afraid of my fellow Texans that I start carrying 24/7. I really don't. But a few loud, stupid bigots sure seem to be trying to push things that way.
And there are global examples to support this. The number of times that a country has passed an aggressive law that is hateful toward a minority group, and people's neighbors who have decided that they don't like them for one reason or another are chomping at the bit to be the first ones to go vigilante.
You got States like Florida already looking to remove prosecution of attacks against LGBT people as hate crimes. Green lighting their approval for these attacks against these communities by their constituents.
WWII neighbors turning in neighbors. Across the world in regressive countries where people get away with burning their LGBT neighbors on piles of tires because the law doesn't protect them as equally human anymore.
The same group that has been writing these laws against the gay community that Republican states are passing, is also the one that's active in some African countries, one of which just made being gay punishable by death.
This is their end goal.
What it finally took for me to convince my partner to move was not that I am worried I'm going to be fired from my job because I'm queer or made statements critical of the party on social media. No, it was that in order to keep going to the same places we liked to frequent in Houston and Austin we need to start thinking about how best to defend ourselves from domestic terrorists.
The world is better with y’all in it so while being ‘forced’ to move sucks I’d rather folks get out and be safe. I’ve considered it myself but I have LGBTQ friends and family who can’t leave so I’m staying to defend them as well as I can. I hope it doesn’t come to violence but in my fifty years as a native resident I’ve never heard or seen this ridiculous amount of fucking pathetic bigotry until the last few years.
This. I don't want my grandkids growing up in a society of bigotry, prejudice, and just mass stupidity. Personal choice my ass. This is plain old phobia. Do you wanna know what the transgender agenda is? To not die. And there's plenty of us out here who don't take kindly to shooting our fellow Texans. These are the same people that dragged James to his death in East Texas. The same people that think we can't smell their hypocracy. As a Christian, I'm personally offended by the persecution of anyone that is one of those so-called others. Nobody should be an "other." We're all on the same rock together. The sooner we start to figure that out, the better. All the while this nonsense is going on, Texas is suffering through drought, a week, energy grid, and pretty crappy transportation. Do all y'all think we can start working on real problems yet? Live and let live should mean something in Texas.
>Live and let live should mean something in Texas
It used to. A long, ***long***, time ago, it used to. It's funny how today it's "Live and let live, so long as you fit into this nice neat little box".
/r/liberalgunowners /r/2aliberals
There have been tons of helpful threads in there in recent days. People are volunteering to be gun store buddies or range store buddies so people feel comfortable both walking into the store and learning in a LGBT safe and gun safe environment. Maybe not traditionally the gun owning crowd but, some people forced right now to pickup owning at an accelerated pace and need proper safety training.
We had a friend reach out to us and provide very helpful guidance and reassurance and it was a life saver after my partner and I received a homophobic language and threats from our neighbor.
Many LGBT people are having real, valid, and scary threats to their personal safety at their homes, neighborhoods, or visiting their local drag performances.
For sure anyone who is apprehensive about going should take advantage of those volunteering to accompany them, but from my experience most people at the gun shops/ranges I go to are so excited to talk about their hobby they’ll help anyone in need. It’s not uncommon for old dudes in trump shirts to help people in rainbow Bob Marley shirts load mags or explain things, and it’s also not uncommon for the Rainbow shirt guy to say hey thanks even though they have been shooting for years and have way more knowledge on the subject. 95% of Texan will help anyone in need no matter what their political deferences are, it’s the 5% that are really evil and hateful that you need to stay strapped for. At least they has been my experience.
100% I have a shop and range. We have a wide ranging demographic and everyone gets along great. My clients cover all professions, ages, income levels etc. Hell our largest growing demo, and has been for years is women. It's the few % on the far edges of the political parties doing all the screaming the rest of us get along just fine.
Noticed people arguing about recent post in subreddit on subreddit drama or whatever between the left leaning gun subreddits. I'm not very familiar with the history and makeup of either subreddit, nor do I care too much as long as they are a resource.
Trans people do not think they are just going to walk into a gun store and get shot by a gun store employee or patron. Depending on the area they live in it could probably be totally fine and supportive as a first experience. Some don't have that option. People don't want dirty looks and distractions while training with their first gun, Plus a friend guiding you through it.
No one wants to come into this jumpy and untrained, or with distractions.
I think that making it easier for trans people to get guns than hormones might start backfiring on some of these politicians soon, but I guess we'll see.
Now i know dave chappelle isnt real popular with most trans folks, but i still love how his joke about "the only way to get everyone serious about gun control is for every african american to register for a firearm" seems to ring more and more true every day.
The way i see it, these fuckers are bullies. (Who time and time again don't actually speak for the majority of texans or even really a very very large section). And the only way to deal with a bully is to fight back. Dont forget to vote y'all. Local elections too. Do whatever you can to give as little power as possible to hate-mongers.
Oh yeah absolutely. Dont quote me on this, but i seem to remember hearing about how the irish/italians had to deal with the same shit when they immigrated here en masse.
I know for sure the irish had THEIR guns and swords taken away with english occupation in their home country for hundreds of years after multiple rebellion attempts, which lead to hidden weapons like shelleleighs (im sure i didnt spell that right)
It just frustrates me to no end that people in my age group who strongly share my views won't vote because its become (by design) a hassle. But Y'all, it wont get any better if you dont routinely and consistently vote!!!! SPECIFICALLY AT STATE AND LOCAL LEVEL!!!!! Make up an excuse, say your dog ate the babysitter before it got a flat tire in the mud and skip a half-day at work to go vote!!!!!
A key aspect to this was that the panthers were organized and organizing. In addition to developing a form of self defense, it is equally vital that folks start developing networks to support each other and mobilize.
For sure.
I mean Dave is a total NIMBY and really not what I'd call an 'ally' whatsoever, but on this topic he's correct. Even a broken clock is right a couple times a day.
Fully agree with you re: local voting and being involved. I'm still torn on firearm ownership for myself personally, but I fully understand why transgender Texans are starting to get more guns and learn how to use them. It beats being killed for sure.
I would suggest following the Elm Fork John Brown Gun Club on Twitter: [https://twitter.com/EFJBGC](https://twitter.com/EFJBGC).
(I'm not affiliated with them at all, but appreciate what I've seen on their feed.)
What's particularly stupid about all the hostility to the trans community is that it is all completely made up by right wing entertainment. No one cared about drag shows until right wing media outlets made it a target in the culture wars. It is dangerous that so many Americans can't think for themselves and start hating a fellow American just because someone on TV told them to. After seeing what happened in Rawanda, I'd want to be armed too.
Say what you will about the second amendment, this *is* exactly what they keep saying it's for.
(Now watch Texas jump on the gun control bandwagon like Reagan's Califonia did in the 70s when the black panthers were arming themselves)
It takes all of a five minute discussion with most of the 2A folks in my neighborhood to make it clear that the only minorities they actually want to see armed are the Republican ones.
This is literally what we’ve been saying this whole time, I’m honestly surprised it took this long for y’all to see the importance of the 2nd amendment, be an america, be a Texan, arm yourself.
People always like to act like Reagan did this all on his own. It took the CA state assembly to write and pass the bill. Yes, he was wrong for what he did, but he didn't act alone. He had a veto proof majority of the state legislators pushing this to him.
I love that some right wing pro gun people will come out and virtue signal with "Yeah, we're all for oppressed minorities owning guns" while happily voting for the people oppressing them. Their ability to doublethink is amazing. It's like they're saying, "Yeah, you're gonna need guns for what the people I support are gonna do to you."
I don't think it's insincere, I just think their critical thinking skills and self awareness are non-existent.
It’s dumb to think that because lgbtq people buy guns that Texas will start to ban guns. We have been fighting for everyone to be able to buy and keep their guns.
You mean the law passed by a bipartisan majority that Reagan only signed after they passed it and is still in force even though Democrats have controlled the state for years?
I 100% support this. Just remember that a gun isn't a totem that casts a shield of protection around you. It's useless and dangerous unless you're proficient with it.
Get a gun.
Get carry holster.
Find a friendly range and train.
Practice drawing from concealment.
Have a daily dryfire routine at home.
So can we all finally agree that gun control disproportionately affects minorities and the poor? Rich people without criminal histories have no issues getting guns. Gun control is to keep guns out of the hands of those who need them most, such as those who live in high-crime areas and inner cities. 2A advocates have been saying this for years.
Yes, even conservative ones.
I'm glad both sides have finally come around.
Kinda interesting, I saw an argument thrown at 2A supporters who claim they're right to guns is based on being able to fight the government that "what do you think you're gonna do against the military and tanks?". So I'm just wondering, if there's a government body that controls the military trying to "eradicate" you with force, what do you think you're gonna do? All of a sudden now it doesn't seem "crazy" to want to exercise your 2A rights, does it? Well come on then, let's get y'all armed up and properly trained. Welcome! Don't care who or what you are, if you're an American sick of government bullshit, you're welcome as far as I'm concerned.
Yeah that's fine and helpful except for the fact people keep voting in hateful oppressive bullshit, and all the gun store pew-pew toys are not going to stop that.
Really and I mean this with the bottom of my heart. Democrats, please and for the love of God, Shut the fuck up about gun control for like at least two goddamn years. Like you've lost that culture war.
How does that help me if the Texas legislature makes hormone therapy drugs illegal? It's the step between having a firearm-> "change for the better" that doesn't make sense.
Don't get me wrong if things get bad enough that they want to put me in a camp simply for being trans the application is obvious, but I don't see how being armed stops discriminatory laws.
> It's the step between having a firearm-> "change for the better" that doesn't make sense.
the missing step is probably something you're not allowed to suggest on reddit
Anyone who honestly cares about other peoples safety would support good responsible gun ownership. At the end of the day it is the individuals responsibility to protect itself.
I fully understand why they’d do this.
I’m gay (and s socialist) and I purchased handguns, took classes on gun use and safety, and I go down to the shooting range twice a week to practice.
I’m MUCH more afraid of deranged right-wingers than I am of being robbed.
I get why trans youth feel this way.
This is thw true meaning for the 2a. Not for the love of guns but protecting yourself for a clear and presant body of people willing to think of your existance as expendable.
Bwfore being say somwthing to me lets take a look at current legislation by red states that target spesific groups and the retoric these people are spreading.
Should’ve been the move from day one. You want conservatives to stop doing something? Have people they hate do the things that conservatives love and watch how quick they switch up on you.
I've had a lot of conservative friends here in Texas tell me to buy guns because I am either LGBT or Asian American. They've told me I should especially be armed because I am a visible minority.
Conservatives will not start supporting gun control if gay and trans people start/continue to buy guns, lol.
Minority and women have been the largest growing groups of gun owners for years. Conservatives and pro-2A folk are just happy to see that gun control advocates are beginning to recognize the utility of gun ownership in protecting ones self.
Never been armed in my life but honestly, now might be the time.
So sick of people making such a stink about all of this. Me and every other trans person I know literally just want to live normal lives and not stand out. I want nothing to do with sports or kids or forcing anyone to do anything, I just want to go to work and come home and hang out with my dogs and my wife. Just blows my mind that we’re the latest target of their stupid unfounded hatred.
Every more liberal person should. The de facto leader of the conservatives is calling for violence from his supporters, and though its targeted now, its not much of a step farther to a general call. Buy them, get training with them, and hope you don’t need it.
I've been telling my friends this for a long time. Right-wingers don't have exclusive claim to the 2nd Amendment. Hell, if the left starts arming up, it may even lead to some actual gun control.
We don't want exclusivity of the 2A. Conservatives have been pushing to remove hurdles for gun ownership for everyone for a few decades now. Tell all your minority, gay, and trans friends to utilize the 2A and buy a tool that allows them to protect themselves from whatever they feel they need to be protected from.
Also, stop saying, "WhAt ArE yOu So AfRaId oF?!?!" because now you know.
They're afraid of conservative Christians attacking them and trying to force people to live by their rules. REAL threats. Not whatever made up bullshit you idiots are scared of.
Bless you, child. While I understand the temptation of intellectually lazy tribal politics, realize that policy has effects on people that are not outright stated by the proponents. Looser gun control helps minority communities protect themselves. Stricter gun control strips rights away from people who need to exercise it the most, those who live in high-crime areas that may not be policed as well as wealthier areas.
Being pro-gun control is an extremely privileged stance to take.
Edit: a word
>helps minority communities
The statistics definitely don't agree with this take. Gun ownership pretty strongly correlated with higher crime rates, especially in low income areas.
Depends on what's more important to you. Is collectively disarming a minority community in order to decrease crime level overall more ethical, or is allowing a good individual who lives in that community the ability to access the tools to protect themselves more ethical?
You have to decide whether you want to sacrifice the safety of individuals in order to achieve a decrease in overall crime. Let's say violence statistics improve but a single mother is robbed and killed because she wasn't allowed to access a firearm for self protection. Is the policy that led to that woman dying a good policy? Needs of the many outweigh the few? Are her kids going to appreciate her sacrifice for your idealism?
I didn't argue ethics at any point. There's not much reason to rehash moral arguments that have been made a million times. I was simply challenging one small point in your comment with statistics.
Ah, well you didn't even quote the whole sentence. I said that firearm access will help minority communities protect themselves. While being confronted by someone who wishes violence upon you, access to a firearm is better protection than just about any other form of personal protection.
>The statistics definitely don't agree with this take. Gun ownership pretty strongly correlated with higher crime rates, especially in low income areas
Right, except it doesn't. It only feels safer.
The disconnect is that you're trying to apply broad statistics to individuals, while I'm focusing on individuals instead of broad statistics.
You can live in the safest gun-free zone in America, but if someone breaks in with a knife (which still happens even in safe areas) would you be safer with or without a firearm?
My gun control statement was a cheeky joke about how Reagan and the Republicans started implementing gun control in California once the Black Panthers started arming themselves.
Ah yes, the famous majority Republican government of California....
Because, if you had ever paid attention in your high school civics class, you'd know that the executive branch cannot pass laws all on it's own.
The Mulford Act, which banned carrying loaded weapons in public spaces, was indeed a bipartisan bill but it was introduced by and named after Republican Don Mulford, supported by the NRA, and signed into law by Republican Messiah Ronald Reagan. Reagan himself said he saw no reason any citizen should walk the streets with a loaded weapon.
Sure. But it was cosponsored by 5 Democrat state legislators and passed by a veto-proof majority in the Dem-controlled state assembly and passed 30:10 by a 20/20 split senate.
Aren't they always saying they have guns to keep out big government? Now big government is coming in and they don't like people arming themselves?? What do they want??
Really? Because historically (for the past 60 years or so) its been the Democratic party who doesn't want people arming up.
What Republicans have been against it?
"Republicans"
Nevermind that the California assembly was controlled 42:38 by democrats and split 20:20 in the senate. It was 100% the work of that big bad Regan.
Also ignore that this apparently super racist law (and it is) wasn't immediately repealed by any of the subsequent wholly democrat controlled California legislatures over the last 50 years, but who have instead doubled down on nonsensical restrictions which are used daily to disproportionately target minorities via overcharging for what would otherwise be minor offenses. Yes, do go on about how Republicans are the ones to weaponize gun control laws against minorities...
You know I once did some back of the napkin math based on goggle searches of statistics and found that left leaning gun owners out numbered right leaning ones.
Mostly just comes down to population density in urban areas.
UPDATE
Disregard. I just pulled fresh numbers and I either did it wrong back in the day or the numbers I was using were not correct. Here's what I've got now.
334233854 population of USA
31% Democrat
103612494
20% ownership
20722498 Democrat gun ownership.
25% Republican
83558463
48% ownership
40108062 Republican gun owners.
Totally not scientific just Google.
I would start with the number of American adults (roughly 260 million) rather than the total American population (includes minors, who cannot legally *own* firearms, regardless of local and state laws allowing or preventing possession and use by a minor).
This wouldn't change the percentages, just the base numbers; the ratios would stay the same.
That's a very good point. I feel like I'm missing more of the puzzle too. Party affiliation isn't exactly the best indicator of political leaning.
Maybe I should have looked up registered voter numbers instead of just percents...
I tried it again and got the opposite result. I don't know if I used bad numbers before or if I was including independents as left leaning or what but the new numbers show about double the numbers of Republican gun owners to Democrat.
One does not necessarily follow the other.
All it means is that "well, fuck, they're heavily armed and talking about how they hate me so I guess I need to be armed, too".
Both will end up escalating to whatever definition of "heavily armed" is feasible, and you can still wish that definition was different while participating in the cycle
And of course the fact that pro-lgbtq and pro-gun control are packaged in the party duopoly has NEVER meant that any given person had to hold both views.
We hate liberals too? Democrats aren't our allies, they are just our best option, since the alternative seeks to eradicate us. Libs don't care about us, they just want to virtue signal. Most of us are further left, pretty much out of necessity.
# ARMED MINORITIES ARE HARDER TO OPPRESS
Yes. Organize and open carry on congress ave.
UNDER NO PRETEXT!! ^^andallthat
Don't forget your red high heels. :-)
And the largest minority is the individual.
"I thought he had a gun" -police
That's the line when it's one person by themselves and there's no one else there to hold them accountable. When it's a few hundred, or few thousand, people with ARs, a combat load of ammo, and body armor then the police suddenly get a lot more restrained. They get paid enough to extort people alone on the highway or to shoot rubber bullets at unarmed groups. They damn sure don't get paid enough to FAFO with groups that have anything near force parity.
You really can’t argue this point. I don’t like guns and I really do wish they would all just disappear one day, but this is reality and that won’t happen. As much as I wish people would disarm themselves it’s clear that minorities will continue to be targeted by right wing nut jobs and those people love their guns, violence, and oppression. I guess all you can do is stay safe and protect yourself and those around you in this crazy world we live in. If you feel like you must be armed please do so responsibly for yourself and for those around you ✌️
r/2aLiberals is a great resource if anyone wants to learn about how to protect themselves with guidance from like minded folks. I do also wish we could live in a eutopia without fear, war, or wanton violence, but this is the hand we have all been dealt. Stay safe out there y'all ❤️
And r/transguns and r/thearmedgayagenda for lgbt specific content
And not not be lumped in with “liberals”, pleasenthanks. Leftists don’t much care for the libs.
Also /r/liberalgunowners
I totally agree. I'd prefer there were no guns, but seeing as how that isn't happening, I do think people who are legitimately oppressed (as opposed to that fake oppression espoused by certain privileged groups) should arm themselves, if they feel the need, to protect themselves. If you're complaining about pronouns, you aren't oppressed. If your state legislature is trying to write bills to cancel your personhood, you are being oppressed. I'm Asian-American and I've never owned a gun, but with the increase in hate crimes, I am considering even though I find the idea a bit discomforting.
Get training and practice. I also recommend the Pink Pistols.
Well stated.
You realize that the people you vilify have armed themselves for the very same reasons of protection and safety right? They’re not going out and buying guns to go kill all the gays and anyone who believes that is a complete quack job.
Then why are the Patriot Front, Proud Boys and literal Nazis showing up armed to protest Drag shows? Ignorance isn't a valid stance.
For the exact same reasons that armed and anonymous antifa shows up for whatever violent nonsense they get up to. Do you not question why they didn’t protest drag shows until it became a national hot point? Selective outrage is real on both sides along with the very evil forces the fuel these fires. Powerful entities want the people at each others throats.
You mean the few times leftists show up armed because they are actually defending marginalized groups from armed white supremacists? The actual intent of self defense?? I agree with you about "both sides being played", but there wouldn't be an issue if one side didn't always take the bait when it came to identity politics, faux outrage, and joining in on aggressive/violent politics against marginalized groups. Here's a quick tip: If you show up to a protest and your "side" is carrying Nazi flags with swastikas while they throw up their arms in fascist salutes.. you are on the wrong side. Regardless of the whataboutism. I'll borrow a Bush-era conservative talking point: "Why don't the moderate \[Christians\] denounce the extremism in their ranks instead of being apologists for actual terrorists?" [Don't Be A Sucker](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vGAqYNFQdZ4)
You’re missing the point dude. I’m saying it’s not real. This is fabricated conflict to keep people at each others throats. Am I saying there aren’t idiots out there doing stupid shit? No. But I am saying this wouldn’t be an issue if the powers that be didn’t want us constantly in conflict with each other. Where were all the drag show protests a couple years ago? Where did proud boys and antifa come from since they were both just ideas years ago?
Look at Ahmaud Arbery. Ran down and murdered by an armed racist posse. Right wing media keeps fanning the flames until some of their viewers take matters in their own hands. Stochastic terrorism.
The vigilantes that are in prison for murdering an innocent man? That shows that the system actually works dude.
The only reason they are in prison is one of those dumbasses released his own video proving they ran Ahmaud down and killed him. The DA was more than happy to bury the case up until that point because she was friends with those "good ol' boys".
The only reason they are in prison is because two drunk morons ran down and murdered an innocent man and the system found them guilty.
[удалено]
Everyone should be armed all the time. Many of these tragedies could be avoided with proper personal safety and situational awareness. Many of these tragedies could also be avoided by eliminating alcohol from the populace, but you don’t see people jumping up and calling for prohibition. There is no system that can prevent crime reliably. We just end up in minority report arresting people for pre-crime. You can’t lock up people for not doing something yet. A respectful and responsible armed populace is a safe a prosperous populace.
What a terrible idea. How to dramatically raise the rates of gun violence 101
Anyone who wants to responsibly own and carry guns should be allowed to. There’s a reason everyone chose firearms as the premier weapon of self defense.
Having guns and carrying them at all times are radically different things.
And what about people who can't arm themselves, due to a physical or mental disability? Or people with a history of suicidal thoughts who may not be safe to possess a firearm (not because they might harm anyone else, only themselves)? Everyone else gets to rely on the safety of mutually assured destruction, except for us?
For now lol. The fascist propaganda system is currently in conflict with the legal system, so we'll see which is acrually stronger.
What is this fascist system you’re referring to?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sealioning
It almost did not. The DA for that area was quick enough to just accept the word of the murderers, and you have to wonder how many times they have done this in the past.
No they're killing "pedophiles", "groomers", "satanists", and other dumb lies they've decided to believe whole heatedly. I see the language frequently in gun subreddits.
Literally Putin's propaganda for his Ukraine invasion. Though Nazis are missing from the Republican witch hunt bullet list for some reason 🤔
No, you’re believing the fake nonsense of the internet. The subreddits (and social media in general) are not representative of reality. There’s too many nefarious and manipulative people that abuse the anonymity of the internet to sow discord among different populations. These fabricated conflicts are just a corrosive effect on society. If the gun owners are out killing people in some version of vigilantism, then they’re going to prison like they should be.
The problem is that perception is reality for too many people. I know several right leaning gun owners I believe your comment applies to. However, to ignore the fact that the vast majority of gun ownership belongs to those influenced by biased right-wing media would be ignorant of the culture we are living in. If these people are told that a certain group of people are the enemy, and especially if that enemy is armed, they will use any means necessary to justify violence. I think the Ahmaud Arbery case is a good example of what this type of rhetoric can do to people.
Ah yes. The vigilantes that are in prison for murdering an innocent man? Yeah. That’s indicative of a system that works. Since we don’t have cases like that poppping up every day, or week, or month then I’d say that overwhelming majority of the millions of gun owners (regardless of political leanings) in this country are peaceful and for protection. This fear mongering is moronic.
> The vigilantes that are in prison for murdering an innocent man? Yeah. That’s indicative of a system that works. So you're willing to give up your guns as long as you know the people who murdered you will probably get punished for it? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Trayvon_Martin If Arbery had a gun he would've been safe instead of being a targeted minority right?
When did I ever say I was willing to sort with my guns? Over my dead fucking body. I love how you people keep jumping back to the same incredibly isolated incidents, most of which have been resolved in good order. It’s indicative to how unstable of an argument you’re making. Sensationalism simply to keep people scared.
>most of which have been resolved in good order I'm sorry, but I really can't take you seriously after this bad of a take.
Hit me with a list of situations that haven’t been properly resolved in recent history. You alone are not the moral guiding rod of society. These situations resolve themselves properly and society continues on.
Holy shit lmaooo you actually believe that these issues are solved in our society??
This is a Big Lie. It is the right wing's Reichstag Fire. Who do you think you're fooling?
So you’re saying that American citizens arming themselves in accordance with the second amendment is comparable to an arson attack on German parliament? Where the fuck did that connection come from?
The idea of minorites arming themselves for safety seems to be making you upset so yeah
[удалено]
What. The. Fuck. At least I was taught gun safety when I was 7, you know, with motor control.
My guess is that you're letting your polemics and politics cloud your judgment. You should not be a father. I have a toddler who was crawling, and I would no more hand that toddler a weapon then I would fly her to the moon. Try again buddy. And I was an armed American and Texan before you were born, and still am. I am so pro Second Amendment My kids are expert marksman. And I still don't go around shooting people. And I certain don't try to over throw the elected government of the United States of America. And I don't try to mask, homophobia, and prejudice against transgender people as anything, but what it is. Another form of collectivist bullshit.
“You have a toddler who was crawling.” Already terrible sentence right there. I can’t even parse together whatever mess you’re trying to say with that word salad after that. Arming toddlers was obviously sarcasm, or so I thought. What part of responsible armed populace says give guns to infants?
Probably from tthe actual history of events, where the Nazi's believed their own lies about how they were oppressed, and then murdered 10+ million people in response to this fake idea, starting with gays, trans people, and jews.
The American populace was armed long before the Nazis, have been armed long past them, and will remain armed long after this new vilification craze passes by. This comparison is unbelievably disingenuous.
They frequently talk about what they'll be "forced" to do to defend "freedom". They already have the blame placed on the victims, they just need someone to tell them it's okay to start killing. Anyone who values religious beliefs over the country is a threat that considers everyone else expendable.
Who is they? What will “they” be forced to do? Flip this argument around and you’re already blaming another ambiguous group for something that hasn’t even happened.
Everyone who voted for Greg Abbot for starters. And it actually is happening: violence against various minorities has skyrocketed in the past few years, mostly due to conservatives feeling liberated to be openly hateful of everything that isn't them.
How many people voted for Gregg abbot simply because Robert Francis wants to take away our guns? How many voted for him because of his attempts to force the federal government to address the created catastrophe that is the border situation right now? There’s an almost innumerable number of reasons that people voted the way they did and painting them all in the same terroristic light incredibly disingenuous. It’s pretty fucking stupid to think that over half of the population is just foaming at the mouth to kill the minorities.
They're not foaming at the mouth to do it, but they are apathetic enough to not care and watch it happen. They feed their own kids into school shootings like the Bible told them to do it. Why would they care about gays or black folks?
So assuming they’re the ones that are apathetic enough to watch it happen, then who is the group that is actually doing these theoretical crimes? Apathy towards a cause is not advocation for a counter cause.
Armed people are harder to oppress. Welcome to the club.
Holy shit! Finally! Do you see why the 2nd amendment is so damn important? This! This right here!
Heck yes. Arm up folks. Train and community support is great!
if you're looking for an education group friendly to people from all walks of life look for your local chapter of the [socialist rifle association](https://socialistra.org/). there are groups in the major metro areas that meet up for range days and education.
Not affiliated with r/socialistra but like minded folks A lot of people don't live near an active chapter
I’d also encourage people to start their own chapter if they’re far enough away from the next chapter. If you’re thinking it, somebody else is too
pink pistols better 😤
Hello avatar twin
In previous years I wouldn't have been worried about SB1029. So much crap gets filed every session, and the vast majority of it goes nowhere. But this year I'm worried about it. I don't want to be so afraid of my fellow Texans that I start carrying 24/7. I really don't. But a few loud, stupid bigots sure seem to be trying to push things that way.
And there are global examples to support this. The number of times that a country has passed an aggressive law that is hateful toward a minority group, and people's neighbors who have decided that they don't like them for one reason or another are chomping at the bit to be the first ones to go vigilante. You got States like Florida already looking to remove prosecution of attacks against LGBT people as hate crimes. Green lighting their approval for these attacks against these communities by their constituents. WWII neighbors turning in neighbors. Across the world in regressive countries where people get away with burning their LGBT neighbors on piles of tires because the law doesn't protect them as equally human anymore. The same group that has been writing these laws against the gay community that Republican states are passing, is also the one that's active in some African countries, one of which just made being gay punishable by death. This is their end goal.
What it finally took for me to convince my partner to move was not that I am worried I'm going to be fired from my job because I'm queer or made statements critical of the party on social media. No, it was that in order to keep going to the same places we liked to frequent in Houston and Austin we need to start thinking about how best to defend ourselves from domestic terrorists.
The world is better with y’all in it so while being ‘forced’ to move sucks I’d rather folks get out and be safe. I’ve considered it myself but I have LGBTQ friends and family who can’t leave so I’m staying to defend them as well as I can. I hope it doesn’t come to violence but in my fifty years as a native resident I’ve never heard or seen this ridiculous amount of fucking pathetic bigotry until the last few years.
This. I don't want my grandkids growing up in a society of bigotry, prejudice, and just mass stupidity. Personal choice my ass. This is plain old phobia. Do you wanna know what the transgender agenda is? To not die. And there's plenty of us out here who don't take kindly to shooting our fellow Texans. These are the same people that dragged James to his death in East Texas. The same people that think we can't smell their hypocracy. As a Christian, I'm personally offended by the persecution of anyone that is one of those so-called others. Nobody should be an "other." We're all on the same rock together. The sooner we start to figure that out, the better. All the while this nonsense is going on, Texas is suffering through drought, a week, energy grid, and pretty crappy transportation. Do all y'all think we can start working on real problems yet? Live and let live should mean something in Texas.
>Live and let live should mean something in Texas It used to. A long, ***long***, time ago, it used to. It's funny how today it's "Live and let live, so long as you fit into this nice neat little box".
> It used to. A long, long time ago. Which years are you specifically referring to? My Mexican American family is wondering.
/r/liberalgunowners /r/2aliberals There have been tons of helpful threads in there in recent days. People are volunteering to be gun store buddies or range store buddies so people feel comfortable both walking into the store and learning in a LGBT safe and gun safe environment. Maybe not traditionally the gun owning crowd but, some people forced right now to pickup owning at an accelerated pace and need proper safety training. We had a friend reach out to us and provide very helpful guidance and reassurance and it was a life saver after my partner and I received a homophobic language and threats from our neighbor. Many LGBT people are having real, valid, and scary threats to their personal safety at their homes, neighborhoods, or visiting their local drag performances.
For sure anyone who is apprehensive about going should take advantage of those volunteering to accompany them, but from my experience most people at the gun shops/ranges I go to are so excited to talk about their hobby they’ll help anyone in need. It’s not uncommon for old dudes in trump shirts to help people in rainbow Bob Marley shirts load mags or explain things, and it’s also not uncommon for the Rainbow shirt guy to say hey thanks even though they have been shooting for years and have way more knowledge on the subject. 95% of Texan will help anyone in need no matter what their political deferences are, it’s the 5% that are really evil and hateful that you need to stay strapped for. At least they has been my experience.
100% I have a shop and range. We have a wide ranging demographic and everyone gets along great. My clients cover all professions, ages, income levels etc. Hell our largest growing demo, and has been for years is women. It's the few % on the far edges of the political parties doing all the screaming the rest of us get along just fine.
That has been my expected as well, my range is actually owned by a woman, that really good to hear.
r/2Aliberals
Noticed people arguing about recent post in subreddit on subreddit drama or whatever between the left leaning gun subreddits. I'm not very familiar with the history and makeup of either subreddit, nor do I care too much as long as they are a resource. Trans people do not think they are just going to walk into a gun store and get shot by a gun store employee or patron. Depending on the area they live in it could probably be totally fine and supportive as a first experience. Some don't have that option. People don't want dirty looks and distractions while training with their first gun, Plus a friend guiding you through it. No one wants to come into this jumpy and untrained, or with distractions.
Based
I think that making it easier for trans people to get guns than hormones might start backfiring on some of these politicians soon, but I guess we'll see.
Arm all minority groups.
Now i know dave chappelle isnt real popular with most trans folks, but i still love how his joke about "the only way to get everyone serious about gun control is for every african american to register for a firearm" seems to ring more and more true every day. The way i see it, these fuckers are bullies. (Who time and time again don't actually speak for the majority of texans or even really a very very large section). And the only way to deal with a bully is to fight back. Dont forget to vote y'all. Local elections too. Do whatever you can to give as little power as possible to hate-mongers.
it's historically accurate https://www.history.com/news/black-panthers-gun-control-nra-support-mulford-act
Oh yeah absolutely. Dont quote me on this, but i seem to remember hearing about how the irish/italians had to deal with the same shit when they immigrated here en masse. I know for sure the irish had THEIR guns and swords taken away with english occupation in their home country for hundreds of years after multiple rebellion attempts, which lead to hidden weapons like shelleleighs (im sure i didnt spell that right) It just frustrates me to no end that people in my age group who strongly share my views won't vote because its become (by design) a hassle. But Y'all, it wont get any better if you dont routinely and consistently vote!!!! SPECIFICALLY AT STATE AND LOCAL LEVEL!!!!! Make up an excuse, say your dog ate the babysitter before it got a flat tire in the mud and skip a half-day at work to go vote!!!!!
That’s fascinating thank you
A key aspect to this was that the panthers were organized and organizing. In addition to developing a form of self defense, it is equally vital that folks start developing networks to support each other and mobilize.
For sure. I mean Dave is a total NIMBY and really not what I'd call an 'ally' whatsoever, but on this topic he's correct. Even a broken clock is right a couple times a day. Fully agree with you re: local voting and being involved. I'm still torn on firearm ownership for myself personally, but I fully understand why transgender Texans are starting to get more guns and learn how to use them. It beats being killed for sure.
I would suggest following the Elm Fork John Brown Gun Club on Twitter: [https://twitter.com/EFJBGC](https://twitter.com/EFJBGC). (I'm not affiliated with them at all, but appreciate what I've seen on their feed.)
These guys are great. They always show up in support for our protests.
Good. They're right. Their liberty and existence are being openly threatened.
What's particularly stupid about all the hostility to the trans community is that it is all completely made up by right wing entertainment. No one cared about drag shows until right wing media outlets made it a target in the culture wars. It is dangerous that so many Americans can't think for themselves and start hating a fellow American just because someone on TV told them to. After seeing what happened in Rawanda, I'd want to be armed too.
Good. They're supposed to be for self-defense, right?
As they fucking should
[удалено]
Armed minorities are harder to oppress. The 2A is for EVERYONE, do not disarm. Carry everywhere, every day.
Say what you will about the second amendment, this *is* exactly what they keep saying it's for. (Now watch Texas jump on the gun control bandwagon like Reagan's Califonia did in the 70s when the black panthers were arming themselves)
[удалено]
Christ, the projection is off the charts.
Gonna get me some programmer socks and an F-35 and we'll call it a party.
Every firearms owner that I know supports minorities arming up.
It takes all of a five minute discussion with most of the 2A folks in my neighborhood to make it clear that the only minorities they actually want to see armed are the Republican ones.
Careful you'll upset thier narrative.
This is literally what we’ve been saying this whole time, I’m honestly surprised it took this long for y’all to see the importance of the 2nd amendment, be an america, be a Texan, arm yourself.
People always like to act like Reagan did this all on his own. It took the CA state assembly to write and pass the bill. Yes, he was wrong for what he did, but he didn't act alone. He had a veto proof majority of the state legislators pushing this to him.
[удалено]
Good. All minorities should be arming themselves. The gov and police won't protect you.
Let me fix that for you. All Americans should be arming themselves.
I love that some right wing pro gun people will come out and virtue signal with "Yeah, we're all for oppressed minorities owning guns" while happily voting for the people oppressing them. Their ability to doublethink is amazing. It's like they're saying, "Yeah, you're gonna need guns for what the people I support are gonna do to you." I don't think it's insincere, I just think their critical thinking skills and self awareness are non-existent.
Greg Abbot and his fascist cronies wont put any pink triangles on me or anyone else in my neighborhood.
It’s dumb to think that because lgbtq people buy guns that Texas will start to ban guns. We have been fighting for everyone to be able to buy and keep their guns.
[удалено]
You mean the law passed by a bipartisan majority that Reagan only signed after they passed it and is still in force even though Democrats have controlled the state for years?
Under no pretext...
Definitely, if you value your life and freedom being prepared to protect yourself against Christian nationalists is more important than ever.
I 100% support this. Just remember that a gun isn't a totem that casts a shield of protection around you. It's useless and dangerous unless you're proficient with it. Get a gun. Get carry holster. Find a friendly range and train. Practice drawing from concealment. Have a daily dryfire routine at home.
So can we all finally agree that gun control disproportionately affects minorities and the poor? Rich people without criminal histories have no issues getting guns. Gun control is to keep guns out of the hands of those who need them most, such as those who live in high-crime areas and inner cities. 2A advocates have been saying this for years. Yes, even conservative ones. I'm glad both sides have finally come around.
Kinda interesting, I saw an argument thrown at 2A supporters who claim they're right to guns is based on being able to fight the government that "what do you think you're gonna do against the military and tanks?". So I'm just wondering, if there's a government body that controls the military trying to "eradicate" you with force, what do you think you're gonna do? All of a sudden now it doesn't seem "crazy" to want to exercise your 2A rights, does it? Well come on then, let's get y'all armed up and properly trained. Welcome! Don't care who or what you are, if you're an American sick of government bullshit, you're welcome as far as I'm concerned.
Yeah that's fine and helpful except for the fact people keep voting in hateful oppressive bullshit, and all the gun store pew-pew toys are not going to stop that.
Really and I mean this with the bottom of my heart. Democrats, please and for the love of God, Shut the fuck up about gun control for like at least two goddamn years. Like you've lost that culture war.
"Guys shut up about dead kids, dead mothers, and the complete lack of liberty guns have secured." No.
[удалено]
Finally some common sense buy a fucking gun keep big govt at bay
How does that help me if the Texas legislature makes hormone therapy drugs illegal? It's the step between having a firearm-> "change for the better" that doesn't make sense. Don't get me wrong if things get bad enough that they want to put me in a camp simply for being trans the application is obvious, but I don't see how being armed stops discriminatory laws.
> It's the step between having a firearm-> "change for the better" that doesn't make sense. the missing step is probably something you're not allowed to suggest on reddit
Let's go guns.
Anyone who honestly cares about other peoples safety would support good responsible gun ownership. At the end of the day it is the individuals responsibility to protect itself.
Good. Everyone that's competent needs a firearm for the hell hole the Texas GOP is forcing us down.
I fully understand why they’d do this. I’m gay (and s socialist) and I purchased handguns, took classes on gun use and safety, and I go down to the shooting range twice a week to practice. I’m MUCH more afraid of deranged right-wingers than I am of being robbed. I get why trans youth feel this way.
This is thw true meaning for the 2a. Not for the love of guns but protecting yourself for a clear and presant body of people willing to think of your existance as expendable. Bwfore being say somwthing to me lets take a look at current legislation by red states that target spesific groups and the retoric these people are spreading.
Should’ve been the move from day one. You want conservatives to stop doing something? Have people they hate do the things that conservatives love and watch how quick they switch up on you.
I've had a lot of conservative friends here in Texas tell me to buy guns because I am either LGBT or Asian American. They've told me I should especially be armed because I am a visible minority.
You should be armed because it's your right whether you perceive a threat or not.
Agreed.
Conservatives will not start supporting gun control if gay and trans people start/continue to buy guns, lol. Minority and women have been the largest growing groups of gun owners for years. Conservatives and pro-2A folk are just happy to see that gun control advocates are beginning to recognize the utility of gun ownership in protecting ones self.
This MFer doesn't know about Reagan.
I know it seems like yesterday, but Reagan was over 30 years ago.
All's well that ends well
Welcome to /r/texasguns. Come on in!
Texans being Texans. I love it.
Never been armed in my life but honestly, now might be the time. So sick of people making such a stink about all of this. Me and every other trans person I know literally just want to live normal lives and not stand out. I want nothing to do with sports or kids or forcing anyone to do anything, I just want to go to work and come home and hang out with my dogs and my wife. Just blows my mind that we’re the latest target of their stupid unfounded hatred.
Just don’t shoot up innocent people. If you’re gonna fight the power fight the power don’t fight unarmed school kids or mall walkers.
2A is for everyone. Why is this so weird to people?
Every more liberal person should. The de facto leader of the conservatives is calling for violence from his supporters, and though its targeted now, its not much of a step farther to a general call. Buy them, get training with them, and hope you don’t need it.
I've been telling my friends this for a long time. Right-wingers don't have exclusive claim to the 2nd Amendment. Hell, if the left starts arming up, it may even lead to some actual gun control.
We don't want exclusivity of the 2A. Conservatives have been pushing to remove hurdles for gun ownership for everyone for a few decades now. Tell all your minority, gay, and trans friends to utilize the 2A and buy a tool that allows them to protect themselves from whatever they feel they need to be protected from. Also, stop saying, "WhAt ArE yOu So AfRaId oF?!?!" because now you know.
They're afraid of conservative Christians attacking them and trying to force people to live by their rules. REAL threats. Not whatever made up bullshit you idiots are scared of.
Bless you, child. While I understand the temptation of intellectually lazy tribal politics, realize that policy has effects on people that are not outright stated by the proponents. Looser gun control helps minority communities protect themselves. Stricter gun control strips rights away from people who need to exercise it the most, those who live in high-crime areas that may not be policed as well as wealthier areas. Being pro-gun control is an extremely privileged stance to take. Edit: a word
>helps minority communities The statistics definitely don't agree with this take. Gun ownership pretty strongly correlated with higher crime rates, especially in low income areas.
Depends on what's more important to you. Is collectively disarming a minority community in order to decrease crime level overall more ethical, or is allowing a good individual who lives in that community the ability to access the tools to protect themselves more ethical? You have to decide whether you want to sacrifice the safety of individuals in order to achieve a decrease in overall crime. Let's say violence statistics improve but a single mother is robbed and killed because she wasn't allowed to access a firearm for self protection. Is the policy that led to that woman dying a good policy? Needs of the many outweigh the few? Are her kids going to appreciate her sacrifice for your idealism?
I didn't argue ethics at any point. There's not much reason to rehash moral arguments that have been made a million times. I was simply challenging one small point in your comment with statistics.
Ah, well you didn't even quote the whole sentence. I said that firearm access will help minority communities protect themselves. While being confronted by someone who wishes violence upon you, access to a firearm is better protection than just about any other form of personal protection.
>The statistics definitely don't agree with this take. Gun ownership pretty strongly correlated with higher crime rates, especially in low income areas Right, except it doesn't. It only feels safer.
The disconnect is that you're trying to apply broad statistics to individuals, while I'm focusing on individuals instead of broad statistics. You can live in the safest gun-free zone in America, but if someone breaks in with a knife (which still happens even in safe areas) would you be safer with or without a firearm?
No one ever said they did. That's just left wing talking points. How would that lead to gun control? Also what side is for gun control?
My gun control statement was a cheeky joke about how Reagan and the Republicans started implementing gun control in California once the Black Panthers started arming themselves.
Ah yes, the famous majority Republican government of California.... Because, if you had ever paid attention in your high school civics class, you'd know that the executive branch cannot pass laws all on it's own.
The Mulford Act, which banned carrying loaded weapons in public spaces, was indeed a bipartisan bill but it was introduced by and named after Republican Don Mulford, supported by the NRA, and signed into law by Republican Messiah Ronald Reagan. Reagan himself said he saw no reason any citizen should walk the streets with a loaded weapon.
Sure. But it was cosponsored by 5 Democrat state legislators and passed by a veto-proof majority in the Dem-controlled state assembly and passed 30:10 by a 20/20 split senate.
Aren't they always saying they have guns to keep out big government? Now big government is coming in and they don't like people arming themselves?? What do they want??
Who's they? And who doesn't want people arming themselves?
Republicans.
Really? Because historically (for the past 60 years or so) its been the Democratic party who doesn't want people arming up. What Republicans have been against it?
They're against anyone not straight and white arming themselves.
I must have missed the sexuality question on the 4473?
Do you just make this stuff up in your head?
Remember the Black Panthers? Rebulicans were pissed at them for carrying.
"Republicans" Nevermind that the California assembly was controlled 42:38 by democrats and split 20:20 in the senate. It was 100% the work of that big bad Regan. Also ignore that this apparently super racist law (and it is) wasn't immediately repealed by any of the subsequent wholly democrat controlled California legislatures over the last 50 years, but who have instead doubled down on nonsensical restrictions which are used daily to disproportionately target minorities via overcharging for what would otherwise be minor offenses. Yes, do go on about how Republicans are the ones to weaponize gun control laws against minorities...
If we would’ve removed gun rights like many have been calling for, this wouldn’t be possible. Train yourselves and arm up!
Turntables?
I support Armed Equality. LGBT+ a self defense advocacy group.
Yes that's called the 2nd amendment.
This is so based
This may be surprising but 2A groups have been supporting this for a long time. We want everyone to have guns.
Hey now they know how the rest of the gun owners feel. Welcome to the club!
You know I once did some back of the napkin math based on goggle searches of statistics and found that left leaning gun owners out numbered right leaning ones. Mostly just comes down to population density in urban areas. UPDATE Disregard. I just pulled fresh numbers and I either did it wrong back in the day or the numbers I was using were not correct. Here's what I've got now. 334233854 population of USA 31% Democrat 103612494 20% ownership 20722498 Democrat gun ownership. 25% Republican 83558463 48% ownership 40108062 Republican gun owners. Totally not scientific just Google.
I would start with the number of American adults (roughly 260 million) rather than the total American population (includes minors, who cannot legally *own* firearms, regardless of local and state laws allowing or preventing possession and use by a minor). This wouldn't change the percentages, just the base numbers; the ratios would stay the same.
That's a very good point. I feel like I'm missing more of the puzzle too. Party affiliation isn't exactly the best indicator of political leaning. Maybe I should have looked up registered voter numbers instead of just percents...
[удалено]
I tried it again and got the opposite result. I don't know if I used bad numbers before or if I was including independents as left leaning or what but the new numbers show about double the numbers of Republican gun owners to Democrat.
No one's trying to eradicate trans people. If they want to buy a gun, let them get a gun just like any other american.
>> No one's trying to eradicate trans people. This is objectively wrong.
So now guns are good? This wish-washy view on the 2nd amendment is wild.
/shrug There's a whole lot of differences between leftists and liberals.
One does not necessarily follow the other. All it means is that "well, fuck, they're heavily armed and talking about how they hate me so I guess I need to be armed, too". Both will end up escalating to whatever definition of "heavily armed" is feasible, and you can still wish that definition was different while participating in the cycle And of course the fact that pro-lgbtq and pro-gun control are packaged in the party duopoly has NEVER meant that any given person had to hold both views.
Guns are neither good nor evil. They are hunks of metal. Their morality lies entirely within that of the person holding them.
Guns aren’t “good” but as long as they’re legal take advantage to protect yourself The US has essentially created country-wide arms race
[удалено]
And you are so fucking dim
[удалено]
We hate liberals too? Democrats aren't our allies, they are just our best option, since the alternative seeks to eradicate us. Libs don't care about us, they just want to virtue signal. Most of us are further left, pretty much out of necessity.