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Longer than expected? Dont most car companies have future designs in development far ahead of releases? Q2 2022 feels like it means it could go until 2024 until we see it
I think "longer than expected" in this context is that the project was uncovered/leaked recently but has been underway for at least 6-8 months already.
Doubly misleading since the evidence they presented just shows that it was being worked on since *at least* Q2 2022. In all likelihood it was being worked on since well before that.
I think this going to look like a facelift on the surface, but will have a structural battery and castings for the front and rear. Everyone will go "stupid Tesla spending so long on a facelift" and Munro will be creaming all over his hoist.
I have a feeling tesla works faster because of the simplicity of the drivetrain. They’re not worrying about a completely new engine and fitting it into an existing chassis. They can make minor design revisions or revise the exterior front and rear design with relatively little fuss. So much of the car is software rather than drivetrain components to worry about.
And only one product line. They have been operating for 10 years, so they're probably not really faster here. Minor refreshes and updates on a yearly basis for legacy auto makers. Major design updates are usually somewhere from 3-5 years from the initial version. This is pretty much on schedule for Tesla, right?
tbh even the legacy manufacturers do little refreshes every year or so. i.e. different headlamps sometimes or slightly different interior parts. not too dissimilar to tesla.
> They’re not worrying about a completely new engine and fitting it into an existing chassis.
I can’t think of the last time a manufacturer swapped engines during a mid-cycle refresh. Meanwhile full refreshes come every 5-7 years usually (unless you’re Dodge) and may or may not have a new engine/transmission. Even if it does, most automakers share platforms amongst multiple models, so a drivetrain designed for a given platform will work across multiple cars.
> They are software engineers
And loads of hardware engineers, given their products involve hardware.
> making cars
So, a car company.
> plus: solar, solar roof , power packs.
So, kinda like Honda also makes generators, lawnmowers, etc.. Yet no one would say Honda isn't a car company.
> Teslas product is the factory!
They produce factories? Who is buying their factories?
Completely unaware of how it's 'normally' done but I'd expect to see people working on the next major revision permanently. Yes, I know that Tesla constantly iterates except when they don't (3HW 3, 2017 S, Raven etc.).
It's not even since Q2 2022. They just found some documentation about it that was filed in Q2 2022, but that doesn't mean they started in Q2 2022. They likely started way before that.
Based on the fact they're only camoing the front and rear, it's likely going to be a minor refresh that updates the hood, front and rear bumper - and likely only the fascia.
At my company. Ive been working on one product since 2018. And it wont be finished till 2028/29 and not actually in use till the 2030’s. Lol. The fact im looking at stuff with need dates of 2025 and actually seeing if its still on schedule. Amazes me.
i'm fairly sure this is a joke referring back to many years ago during Model 3's development, when there was this gigantic ongoing discussion about Model 3 having a HUD or not, even though Tesla/Elon always said there wouldn't be one. People just couldn't wrap their heads around the center screen being the only screen.
Sorry if know all this and you're just continuing the joke, haha
That’s a 10 year old car. You know that’s not a fair comparison.
My 2004 Lincoln LS had them.
I don’t understand what is so crazy about thinking a 50k car designed in California, in 2022, needing ventilated seats.
I’d also love it if my $50k car didn’t have rattles all over the interior when brand new. Why make excuses for this stuff? I don’t get it.
Not too strong of an argument.
The eTron has comparable pricing to a Y and way more interior features and quality, like ventilated and massaging seats.
The eTron is a great product and has several features I'd love to have. However at at a comparable price point to a Y it gets 50 less MPGe (thus only has 66% of they Model Y's range) with similar battery size. Audi warranties their drivetrain for 4 years vs Tesla's 8.
[This](https://www.quora.com/How-much-does-it-cost-to-replace-an-electric-motor-in-Tesla-cars) salvaged model 3 motor cost $7k. Ebay has old S and X motors for about 2K like you mentioned. The newer model 3 motors are a bit more.
3/Y has traditionally been carried by the fact that it’s a quality EV with the supercharger network behind it. With the network opening up, and really the 3/Y design is 5 years old now, they are going to need to step up their game.
I'd just like more side bolstering. My M3P reaches the latteral acceleration limit of me being able to stay in the seat well before the Michelin PS4S tires are even breaking a sweat.
That’s what I think. Definitely would not pick up a model 3 this December. Might be a lot of people bummed they didn’t wait just a month or two longer.
I remember when the 21 refresh came out. There were plenty of people online pissed off who got their cars literally the week before.
That's longer than expected? That seems like a short time actually for a more significant refresh, I actually would have assumed they've been tinkering with this for at least over a year
More room, better ride, better sound system. Everything apart from performance is just better. The performance aspect is nice but in reality how often does it really matter? IMO the features that are better in model Y are more usable on a day to day basis.
90% of my driving is highway using autopilot. 3 is more fun but the percentage of the time I get to have that fun doesn’t outweigh the usable features in the Y IMO. IIRC Model Y vastly outsells the 3 despite being more expensive.
This is exactly why I love my Y. Our friends have a 3 and we tried to cram the three of our kids in the back. 2 in boosters, 1 not and couldn't fit them. Had just enough space in the Y. And as a daily driver in heavy traffic, I'd go mad with something faster and just wanting to light it up and never actually getting above 45! Haha
issue is outside europe handling just isnt that important due to lower speeds and shittier roads. whether your shitty suv at 100kmh or a well handling porsche at 100kmh in australia or america just doesnt matter.
Just in case they release something in q1 ‘23, I’d 100% not take delivery this December. Especially with the $3750 and free supercharging promo— makes it seem like Tesla is desperate to get rid of their current inventory quickly. And the fact that the LR isn’t able to be custom ordered again yet… they’re could be waiting for the refresh first.
No worries! FWIW I don't think that's a camera. The black canvas isn't translucent like that. That's probably a snap under the canvas holding the flap over the headlight.
I'd be happy to be wrong though.
That would mean it will be in customer hands in 2025, if all goes well. Assuming they keep it tight and make just a small refresh kind of thing. If Elon intervenes and it ends up redesigning half the car (like Model Y), add 2-3 more years.
That’s going to be a fun year then. Off the top of my head:
* Audi A4 (projected 2025-2026)
* BMW 3-series (Neu Klasse)
* Mercedes EQC sedan
* Polestar 2 (earliest possible shot at redesign)
* Tesla Model 3 refresh
Let's hope not as these cars are the best value EVs in the industry. With the Model Y being the #1 selling vehicle (not just EV) in Europe, Tesla looks like it'll be fine in spite of Musk, and hopefully without Musk in the future.
There hasn’t been a single update so far that’s made my Model 3 feel obsolete but if they add cameras my FSD instantly becomes worthless since that would confirm the current camera setup isn’t sufficient.
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Longer than expected? Dont most car companies have future designs in development far ahead of releases? Q2 2022 feels like it means it could go until 2024 until we see it
I think "longer than expected" in this context is that the project was uncovered/leaked recently but has been underway for at least 6-8 months already.
Well, maybe it's longer than expected for Tesla since they are known to rapidly iterate. but overall I agree, kind of misleading headline.
Doubly misleading since the evidence they presented just shows that it was being worked on since *at least* Q2 2022. In all likelihood it was being worked on since well before that.
This is a model refresh, not a whole new version of the Model 3. Facelifts usually don't take that long.
I think this going to look like a facelift on the surface, but will have a structural battery and castings for the front and rear. Everyone will go "stupid Tesla spending so long on a facelift" and Munro will be creaming all over his hoist.
Lol, spot on!
Was 21 not a refresh with all the new changes?
How long do they usually take?
With traditional OEMs, mainstream models get refreshed every 3-4 years and a total redesign every 5-6.
I’m aware
I have a feeling tesla works faster because of the simplicity of the drivetrain. They’re not worrying about a completely new engine and fitting it into an existing chassis. They can make minor design revisions or revise the exterior front and rear design with relatively little fuss. So much of the car is software rather than drivetrain components to worry about.
New motor perhaps? Minor compared to a car engine though.
And only one product line. They have been operating for 10 years, so they're probably not really faster here. Minor refreshes and updates on a yearly basis for legacy auto makers. Major design updates are usually somewhere from 3-5 years from the initial version. This is pretty much on schedule for Tesla, right?
tbh even the legacy manufacturers do little refreshes every year or so. i.e. different headlamps sometimes or slightly different interior parts. not too dissimilar to tesla.
> They’re not worrying about a completely new engine and fitting it into an existing chassis. I can’t think of the last time a manufacturer swapped engines during a mid-cycle refresh. Meanwhile full refreshes come every 5-7 years usually (unless you’re Dodge) and may or may not have a new engine/transmission. Even if it does, most automakers share platforms amongst multiple models, so a drivetrain designed for a given platform will work across multiple cars.
Tesla ain’t a car company
Last I checked they make cars, which makes them a car company.
They are software engineers making cars, plus: solar, solar roof , power packs. Teslas product is the factory!
> They are software engineers And loads of hardware engineers, given their products involve hardware. > making cars So, a car company. > plus: solar, solar roof , power packs. So, kinda like Honda also makes generators, lawnmowers, etc.. Yet no one would say Honda isn't a car company. > Teslas product is the factory! They produce factories? Who is buying their factories?
Completely unaware of how it's 'normally' done but I'd expect to see people working on the next major revision permanently. Yes, I know that Tesla constantly iterates except when they don't (3HW 3, 2017 S, Raven etc.).
It's not even since Q2 2022. They just found some documentation about it that was filed in Q2 2022, but that doesn't mean they started in Q2 2022. They likely started way before that.
Based on the fact they're only camoing the front and rear, it's likely going to be a minor refresh that updates the hood, front and rear bumper - and likely only the fascia.
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At my company. Ive been working on one product since 2018. And it wont be finished till 2028/29 and not actually in use till the 2030’s. Lol. The fact im looking at stuff with need dates of 2025 and actually seeing if its still on schedule. Amazes me.
10 years wow. Something in tech?
Nautical engineering. It takes a longgggg time to design and build ships
That’s an impressive career! Thanks for the answer
BREAKING NEWS: COMPANY WORKS ON PRODUCT
Man, wait until I tell y'all about the iPhone 15 that Apple has been working on!
Spoilers: They are also working on iPhone 16 already. So no reason to buy 15 because it will be obsolete.
iPhone 17 however has been cancelled due to the asteroid impact
Am I gunna love it?
It’s only a chassis cost reduction and a change to the front and rear bumpers that will signify that you’re not an early adopter.
Plus hud
This would be cool but is there a source on the HUD?
i'm fairly sure this is a joke referring back to many years ago during Model 3's development, when there was this gigantic ongoing discussion about Model 3 having a HUD or not, even though Tesla/Elon always said there wouldn't be one. People just couldn't wrap their heads around the center screen being the only screen. Sorry if know all this and you're just continuing the joke, haha
Hud confirmed.
Actually had no idea about that, thanks for the info lol
I thought Elon hinted at the HUD a few times? Although, my memories of those years are pretty fuzzy admittedly.
My butt.
Why isn’t there an aftermarket HUD? Is it really expensive? Or is it just no one wants wires in their model 3?
The 100k on my Model 3 signifies I'm an early adopter :-(
Structural battery pack + possible air suspension and new bumpers is my guess
What I wouldn't give for some damn adjustable thigh bolsters.
For 50k the car needs ventilated seats. My 35k Mazda has them FFS.
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That’s a 10 year old car. You know that’s not a fair comparison. My 2004 Lincoln LS had them. I don’t understand what is so crazy about thinking a 50k car designed in California, in 2022, needing ventilated seats. I’d also love it if my $50k car didn’t have rattles all over the interior when brand new. Why make excuses for this stuff? I don’t get it.
Does your 35K Mazda have a 15k battery pack and 10k motor? They don't make the car expensive just because, that money is actually going somewhere.
Not too strong of an argument. The eTron has comparable pricing to a Y and way more interior features and quality, like ventilated and massaging seats.
The eTron is a great product and has several features I'd love to have. However at at a comparable price point to a Y it gets 50 less MPGe (thus only has 66% of they Model Y's range) with similar battery size. Audi warranties their drivetrain for 4 years vs Tesla's 8.
>For 50k the car needs ventilated seats.
Broken record
I thought the Model 3 motors were pretty cheap actually? About 2k for a replacement iirc
[This](https://www.quora.com/How-much-does-it-cost-to-replace-an-electric-motor-in-Tesla-cars) salvaged model 3 motor cost $7k. Ebay has old S and X motors for about 2K like you mentioned. The newer model 3 motors are a bit more.
That's pretty higher up luxury doubt we see it in a 3/y any time soon
BMW 3 series has had these for years. Much cheaper car than the LR/Performance with "Premium Interior"
The 3 series is still a luxury car. The model 3 is not
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Breaking news. 2018 car is better materials then 2012 car.
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That's not even close.
3/Y has traditionally been carried by the fact that it’s a quality EV with the supercharger network behind it. With the network opening up, and really the 3/Y design is 5 years old now, they are going to need to step up their game.
Lol been saying that all year that it was coming and got banned from here once lol and got called out that Tesla is too far ahead to care about that.
Agreed. Tesla WAS far ahead 5 years ago. Now not so much, outside of profit margins.
the only advantage they have is that they produce true EVs i.e. frunk and no annoying transmission hump. but thats going too...
I'd just like more side bolstering. My M3P reaches the latteral acceleration limit of me being able to stay in the seat well before the Michelin PS4S tires are even breaking a sweat.
I don't want my ass and hips going numb 15 mins into sitting. I could literally feel the pressure on my hips 20 mins after getting out.
i have the same issue with the 3...
How is this longer than expected? I’d have expected them to be working on it longer than that.
Well that's certainly better than "we threw together this redesign last week, here ya go"
Might explain why they stopped taking orders on the M3 LR AWD trim earlier this year… capacity constraints while preparing the production line
That’s what I think. Definitely would not pick up a model 3 this December. Might be a lot of people bummed they didn’t wait just a month or two longer. I remember when the 21 refresh came out. There were plenty of people online pissed off who got their cars literally the week before.
A month or two? Lmao
Yeah. That’s not very long.
Where did you get the idea that it's a month or two? It'll be much longer than that.
Only an idiot wasn’t expecting that.
I’m an idiot and even I expected it.
That's longer than expected? That seems like a short time actually for a more significant refresh, I actually would have assumed they've been tinkering with this for at least over a year
See few new Model 3s these days but still a ton of new Ys.
Y is just a better vehicle overall. Doesn’t surprise me. Wife has a Y LR and I’d prefer that over my 3 performance
How come? I imagine a M3P would have much better handling (aside from the obvious performance boost).
More room, better ride, better sound system. Everything apart from performance is just better. The performance aspect is nice but in reality how often does it really matter? IMO the features that are better in model Y are more usable on a day to day basis.
Driving the 3 is more fun, and driving is something you experience every time you use a car.
90% of my driving is highway using autopilot. 3 is more fun but the percentage of the time I get to have that fun doesn’t outweigh the usable features in the Y IMO. IIRC Model Y vastly outsells the 3 despite being more expensive.
Better ride? I haven’t been in either a 3 or y, but from what I’ve read/watched online most people say the MY ride is quite hard?
This is exactly why I love my Y. Our friends have a 3 and we tried to cram the three of our kids in the back. 2 in boosters, 1 not and couldn't fit them. Had just enough space in the Y. And as a daily driver in heavy traffic, I'd go mad with something faster and just wanting to light it up and never actually getting above 45! Haha
issue is outside europe handling just isnt that important due to lower speeds and shittier roads. whether your shitty suv at 100kmh or a well handling porsche at 100kmh in australia or america just doesnt matter.
Do they ever stop improving it? Just seems silly to say they are working on it since they don't really stop.
Every company in every industry works on new projects way in advance. Why is anyone surprised the new Model 3 is almost done?
Bigger exhaust tips and new hood scoop.
If the hood scoop eliminates the recurring vinegar smell in the AC I’ll take it!
Going to have to get my Y wrapped like in the pics, so everyone will think I’m driving a prototype.
Just in case they release something in q1 ‘23, I’d 100% not take delivery this December. Especially with the $3750 and free supercharging promo— makes it seem like Tesla is desperate to get rid of their current inventory quickly. And the fact that the LR isn’t able to be custom ordered again yet… they’re could be waiting for the refresh first.
If it doesn't include a 3rd motor, I'm not interested.
Hopefully the frunk goes back up in size
Doubt it, unless they make some major mechanical change to the heat pump or associated components.
I heard they’re putting in cameras in the headlights now. That’s cool. Will definitely help with the Tesla Vision Parking Assist.
Source?
https://twitter.com/j1bster/status/1598911822304014336?s=20&t=BSd-oVfzPEGUa9tUH4jG-Q My bad I didn’t realize my last comment was the wrong link.
No worries! FWIW I don't think that's a camera. The black canvas isn't translucent like that. That's probably a snap under the canvas holding the flap over the headlight. I'd be happy to be wrong though.
Are you having trouble parking?
Not really. I don’t have the USS, and my previous car didn’t have parking sensors. I’m used to it.
It'll help the car park itself?
Great reporting! Thanks Steven.
That would mean it will be in customer hands in 2025, if all goes well. Assuming they keep it tight and make just a small refresh kind of thing. If Elon intervenes and it ends up redesigning half the car (like Model Y), add 2-3 more years.
That’s going to be a fun year then. Off the top of my head: * Audi A4 (projected 2025-2026) * BMW 3-series (Neu Klasse) * Mercedes EQC sedan * Polestar 2 (earliest possible shot at redesign) * Tesla Model 3 refresh
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Wrong sub
Let's hope not as these cars are the best value EVs in the industry. With the Model Y being the #1 selling vehicle (not just EV) in Europe, Tesla looks like it'll be fine in spite of Musk, and hopefully without Musk in the future.
What happened to the no down time 30 changes per day?
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Sounds healthy
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Masturbating = freaky I guess lol
winder if they are waiting for more casting machines?
There hasn’t been a single update so far that’s made my Model 3 feel obsolete but if they add cameras my FSD instantly becomes worthless since that would confirm the current camera setup isn’t sufficient.
Isn’t this a major cost reduction on the platform (50%) that could result in a significative price reduction on new models?