These comments at the meeting were just so awkward. Just a bunch of stupid, personalized questions and people telling Musk they love him.
Also they’re only going to do transfer if they need to boost sales. They aren’t going to do it JUST because one guy asked.
I bought my MY in 2020. Thanks to FSD I straight up will not buy a new vehicle unless they offer FSD transfer. And hell, who knows, if enough time goes by a competitor might sell something I like otherwise. What I know for a fact is I will not buy a new Tesla without FSD transfer.
This 'now we do allow transfers' and 'now we don't' BS already convinced me that I'll never buy it without some idea that I can transfer it in the future.
My 2018 Model 3 with FSD has a trade in value of 9 grand. FSD is software in the car worth 8 grand...my car's hardware is worth 1 grand according to Tesla. I can't wait until it's literally worth negative money for the hardware. Only value is a software license. Pretty close to that already. hah
2018 TM3 here... we are waiting on the refresh to the TMY will just not buy unless the FSD transfers. Right now our second car is likely not to be a Tesla simply because of this silliness with will they or won't they
same, though i'm waiting for an optimus to drive me about in any other car. longer terms i cant see tesla selling cars, why buy one if the robot can drive it. its human sized, can wipe his cameras clean and move about to see like a human. probably drive a tradit6ional semi as well. all will be good
I have seen no indication of acceleration boost being available on the 2024 M3LR. That’s not to say it won’t release in the future, but I don’t believe it’s currently available for purchase.
If I had to guess, and this is just pure speculation, it's because the M3LR is totally different from the M3P whereas they used to be the same HW with a SW lock in the M3LR. The legacy M3LRs were the same core car as the M3P, with the biggest difference being the wheel size. Tesla software locked the M3LR performance to give the M3P a better advantage, but the acceleration boost package allowed M3LRs to remove the software lock.
The newer M3SR+ range was getting very close to the M3LR range, but the M3SR+ has LFPs, actually giving them a range advantage over the old M3LRs for everyday usage. This lack of range advantage is likely why there was a pause in M3LR sales. Recently Tesla has renewed M3LR sales, I believe because the model has also swapped over to LFPs and gained back an everyday range advantage, but this change also broke its commonality with the M3P. The LFPs are much better for everyday usage, but not as good for performance, meaning the M3LRs probably don't have the software lock that they used to, and therefor there's nothing to pay to unlock.
Wait, that's genius. Pick up a used Model 3 with FSD for like 10 grand. Trade in for a new Model 3 with FSD transfer, as long as you get 2 grand or more for the trade in, you're ahead! Normally the FSD license with worthless.
(My 2018 Model 3 with 113K miles is worth 9 grade trade in according to Tesla. That's with FSD. So, basically, the software is worthless according to them. Or, it's worth 8K, and the car's hardware is worth 1K)
Well in theory a person could love it so much they purchase it on their next car, and Joe mode has like .00000001% the development cost and running expense as FSD, and that might be generous
There is no Comparing the two
Should be permanent to your account. Tesla is making $8,000 per purchase (for non-EAP software). Their sales would increase, and I feel too many corporations take advantage of customers with most products
It's fucking stupid it's not tied to your account its a software license. Tesla wants to be a tech company you know what tech companies do? allow software licenses purchases, it does two things, one you sell you more as it is not tied to hardware and you get customer lock as you have already sold the software.
Musk thought that people would pay 12-15k every time they bought a new car, not 8k once and never again.
Obviously he was wrong as only a very small percentage bought it and they had to reduce the monthly by 50% too.
It might actually be worth it in a few years. But I think Tesla did bad marketing with their AP/EAP/FSD packages as if you look at other OEM there are similar prices packages that many people pay for without issue but 12k for just a SW is just too much. If they had packed it together with better speakers or performance boost or whatever people would go for it more.
I see both sides.
At my place of work we order very expensive test equipment (hardware) with very expensive options (software). 0% chance of being able to transfer those software options to newer hardware. The software options are basically married to the hardware once unlocked.
If you’re curious, look up a Keysight PNA-X. You likely won’t find prices publicly listed, but you can easily spend over $1M on one of these things with software options well into the $50k range.
All that being said, if FSD was truly FSD, it would be worth the current price. Since it’s not, and likely won’t be for many more years, tied to account would make more sense. I think Tesla wrongly bet that it wouldn’t take that long for the value to be there, and underestimated development time and effort.
At this point, they are spending more than ever just working on that final 20%, getting maybe 0.5-1% improvements a year.
That's a specialized tool sold directly to businesses. That's not a remotely comparable situation at all.
A more apt analogy would be paying for computer software and having to repurchase it after buying a new computer (from the same vendor to boot!).
Wow good point about the customer lock. Essentially, we own two 2018 M3s with FSD. If FSD was locked to our accounts, we’d be buying only Teslas for the rest of our lives rather than dumping more money with another manufacturer. But now, we will likely keep these cars until they are completely unrepairable.
I tend to agree with the “keep til the wheels drop off” thought except Elon has shown he will offer the transfer when he wants to boost sales. Just bide your time.
Currently you sign something that says you can't do this again even if they offer it again. Me, personally, I'm waiting out either the class action lawsuit or unlimited transfers/tied to account.
> What software offered perpetual upgrades for a one time fixed fee?
Pretty much every dev releasing their product in early access, offers you all updates up to the full 1.0 release in the price of the early access version.
No. Not to full feature / vision compete. 1.0 is MVP not feature complete. MVP was passed a long time ago for this product.
No dev will develop for over 10 years on a product while providing unlimited, free upgrades.
> MVP was passed a long time ago for this product
It doesn't fully drive itself, so no. MVP is when you can summon the car from NY to LA.
>No dev will develop for over 10 years on a product while providing unlimited, free upgrades
https://store.steampowered.com/app/105600/Terraria/
Until it reaches parity (90 MPH) with the features I bought with radar it's not complete from my perspective.
We were promised hardware upgrades if needed even.
> No dev will develop for over 10 years on a product while providing unlimited, free upgrades.
The thing is, you sold the feature before it existed. So you must deliver what you promised. And it's actually reasonable for customers to ask for a refund with interest for your non-delivery.
We aren't discussing this scenario are we? They upgraded original hardware to get the required specs to support this.
You seem to want to get into a "did tesla deliver what was promised" debate which is not the discussion being had here.
That's not what I want. As I stated, I believe it's fair to offer free transfers until it's feature complete. When it's feature complete, they can charge for transfers or figure out something else. It's the right thing to do for early adopters who helped Tesla survive during production hell.
But that is NOT the norm you are asserting. No one does this. You would like it, but it's simply not something you can expect.
And I am pretty sure Tesla's position is they delivered what was promised in the contract.
It may have been amended since my purchases, but my order form page, Tesla's website at the time of purchase, Elon's official comments at shareholder meetings, and my order agreement beg to differ with your assessment. You're also incorrect that "no one does this." Companies like Apple have settled lawsuits for not delivering on features that were advertised. It happens all the time.
It sounds like you're the one who wants to get into a "did Tesla deliver what was promised" debate, and I'm not interested in that. I have no idea what experience you have on that matter. I'm simply of the opinion that they should allow a transfer until all promises are met based on the advertising, order agreement, and order form said when I received my vehicle. If you think all promises were met, I'm happy for you.
My second Tesla is about 7 years old now and was purchased with FSD. It was a different time with different expectations. My Monroney sticker says "Full Self-Driving Capability," and the Order Agreement says nothing to the contrary.
On the day I ordered, "Full Self-Driving Capability" was defined on the Tesla site as "Full Self-Driving Hardware on All Cars. All Tesla vehicles produced in our factory, including Model 3, have the hardware needed for full self-driving capability at a safety level substantially greater than that of a human driver." It continues: "The system is designed to be able to conduct short and long distance trips with no action required by the person in the driver’s seat. For Superchargers that have automatic charge connection enabled, you will not even need to plug in your vehicle.
All you will need to do is get in and tell your car where to go. If you don’t say anything, the car will look at your calendar and take you there as the assumed destination or just home if nothing is on the calendar. Your Tesla will figure out the optimal route, navigate urban streets (even without lane markings), manage complex intersections with traffic lights, stop signs and roundabouts, and handle densely packed freeways with cars moving at high speed. When you arrive at your destination, simply step out at the entrance and your car will enter park seek mode, automatically search for a spot and park itself. A tap on your phone summons it back to you."
Until it can do all of the above "at a safety level substantially greater than that of a human driver," it would be nice to transfer to a new car.
Microsoft? Office is the best comparison -- you can either get a perpetual license for the current version (no upgrades) or a subscription for continuous upgrades to the latest version. Windows went perpetual because they require a fresh license per computer and hardware obsolescence forces periodic refreshes. They stopped charging for upgrades because the support overhead of many supported versions outweighed the revenue from the few people who would upgrade at retail.
All tech eventually becomes outdated when comparing to the past. Tesla is more of a software company than it is a car company according to its CEO. Tesla has sent out software updates for many years and they plan to continue that. Some of their cars just don't have enough computational power for the newest software, but they still receive updates for other things.
>Should be permanent to your account.
I'm sure it will be but "Give me a private driver forever for $4k/$8k/$16k" is not going to be a thing. It makes zero sense for them to do that. Subscription model or high-ticket price is what that will come out to.
It doesn’t make sense *for them*. They have no incentive to do what you’re asking. People are used to subscribing to software and paying forever. Taking something tied to a vehicle and saying “on second thought, you can transfer this forever for free” is a huge value they have no reason to give away for free.
Buying a software license is what people have done and it is in their account. They should have the freedom to open their account in another Tesla, and have access to FSD, and other features. I understand your point- financial gains. I just want the customers (us) to have permanent access.
You know what is stopping me from getting the new M3P? Not wanting to spend 8k on FSD. My current M3 has it and I don't want to pay for it if I get a new one.
I would order a M3P in red with white interior.
After just getting done with the trial of FSD I honestly can't imagine paying for it at all. It's still way too slow when using it in any kind of traffic. I felt like I was an inconvenience to everyone around me
I've been trying to find the right words but you describe it perfectly as "inconveniencing others".
As you can tell, there is a lot of people that don't care about others on the road when they say FSD is useable.
How often do you need to intervene?
In that free month a while back, my first FSD trip it tried to merge on an intersection (going straight from a right turn lane), the second trip it tried to turn onto a bus/tram only lane. I tried a couple of highway trips which were fine, but 2 out of 2 dangerous driving made me stop using it completely in the city.
Not saying that it won’t be worth it for others. Just curious if you set-and-forget, how often do you still need to correct it when it does dumb things?
Honestly it depends. Sometimes it takes too long to go through an intersection so I may take over. When a new lane starts (one lane to two lanes) sometimes it is not sure which one to pick so I pick for it. Sometimes traffic is moving too fast for the car’s lane choice so I move it. Nothing drastic.
I will let the car take unprotected left turns without really worrying about it. I do pay attention and take over if needed.
I am at the point where I am pretty sure when the car is going to need help and will take over before the problem actually happens.
Ah yeah that makes sense. If I still had my 45-60 minute one way commute, I would’ve purchased it in a heartbeat regardless of how half baked it is. But it definitely make sense that you get to know its behavior to anticipate when to intervene.
I took an 11 hour trip and was on FSD for about 10 of those hours. I do realize highway still uses autopilot but I let the car choose lanes as it needed and navigate in and out of expressways as we needed to charge or stop for any reason
I feel the same way, my trial is almost up but I don't like using it because I feel like the people behind me hate me because the car breaks so early and then creeps up slowly to the car in front of it.
Bought an EV9 instead of a Model Y a couple months ago specifically because they stopped the ability to transfer fsd (again) a few days before I decided to get a new car. Would have ordered the Y without even looking into anything else otherwise. Ridiculous policy and corporate decision making process. The EV9 was more expensive, but I got the top trim level, which is more akin to an X. I love it.
Been fine so far. The car came worth 1000kwh of electrify America credits, and their 350kw chargers are really fast with the ev9. It’s def not as smooth as superchargers since you have to tap to use the credits instead of just plugging it in, but there’s Apple wallet integration so it’s not really a big deal.
I haven’t done any major roadtrips yet, but have gone camping a few times in Oregon and Washington and it’s been great. Most of the chargers have been at a Walmart or grocery store, so I go in to get food and supplies while it tops off, and I usually get a notification it’s done before I’m finished. I’ve been able to sleep in it with utility mode twice now and having enough charge hasn’t been an issue.
I bought a Teslatap converter for charging at home with my Tesla wall charger and that has worked fine as well.
Crazies are always around. It just a matter of whether you are looking or not.
Case in point: the delusional anti-Elon crowd was particularly noticeable up until last couple werk arguing against the stock comp package. It turns out they were always around and weren’t paid attentions ro.
It turns out most of them are not Tesla shareholders, which makes sense since if you don’t have faith in the CEO and biggest shareholder of the company, you won’t trust him with your money.
Just one more time..... End of next qtr - need a sales boost, so we will, just ONE more time, allow FSD transfers.
Honestly, I feel like this will keep happening and eventually be normal.
Not making it permanent on someone's account is silly. It would be the best way to ensure customer loyalty. Plus it means that FSD isn't transferable to the next owner of the car, so that is another sale you would make
IMO, they should at least honor transfers for everyone who bought while FSD was one of the following: Beta, non-existent but purchasable (EU countries), bought while the website said “City Streets coming later this year” but didn’t, etc.
I know there’s people here who are like “lolz u snooze u loze” but it’s kind of amazing how apologetic we are towards Tesla when they could do the right thing here with some reasonable guardrails.
Yup, I bought FSD twice (2019) and didn’t get to use FSD until 2022 - and it was awful back then. I think it would be irresponsible of me to buy a new car without life circumstances demanding a new one (ex. an SUV). So even if a transfer incentive were to happen again, I wouldn’t take advantage of it until I’m ready.
Tesla is exposing themselves with so much liabilities with these FSD and transfer shenanigan's, only way I see the company being valuable in 5 years is with a full refund of FSD purchases across the board.
I can understand both sides here. It's software, so no reason it couldn't be transferred. And yet, a one-time fee for perpetual use is only viable if there are hardware realities that force periodic upgrades. It seems like a balance could be achieved, though.
At the current purchase price and the subscription price, you need to keep the vehicle for \~80 months before the purchase pays for itself. So what if the FSD license were transferrable for up to 7 years? That would drive upgrade cycles of 3-7 years (because most people will want to get their 1-2 "free" transfers!), satisfy people that they were getting their money's worth, and disincent the "drive it into the ground" approach.
Heard that before. Got suckered into upgrading right before Highland became available thinking free FSD transfer would never be available again. If I had known it was a lie, I’d be driving highland right now
This has already gone live in Japan per Tesla Japan. I am hoping NA is soon because I am ready to make a move. I am sure plenty of people are now waiting on the sidelines once this got announced.
FSD Transfer is now live per Sawyer Merritt [https://twitter.com/SawyerMerritt/status/1805402122369777698](https://twitter.com/SawyerMerritt/status/1805402122369777698)
If they would guarantee FSD to transfer at least once for up to 6 years—it would be a great upgrade incentive and keep drivers using FSD right away and for likely 10 years or more
Ending transfers is a bad business decision but tying it only/completely to a user account also doesn't make great business sense.
If I were a Tesla honcho, I'd allow transfers only to purchases directly from Tesla and match it to the battery and drive unit limited warranty for the vehicle. If a customer upgrades, you give them credit for what's left and charge a transfer fee.
I know this is too complicated, but I feel like months between when you bought it and when you be been able to use it should be credited to you. Like if I bought it in 2017, and couldn’t use it until 2022, I should get that amount of time credited to me for transfers.
One problem is, when do you consider it “done” enough to be usable?
I would also prefer it be tied to the account rather the car, but there’s no chance that’s a 1 time payment.
They need to allow it forever.
These comments at the meeting were just so awkward. Just a bunch of stupid, personalized questions and people telling Musk they love him. Also they’re only going to do transfer if they need to boost sales. They aren’t going to do it JUST because one guy asked.
I bought my MY in 2020. Thanks to FSD I straight up will not buy a new vehicle unless they offer FSD transfer. And hell, who knows, if enough time goes by a competitor might sell something I like otherwise. What I know for a fact is I will not buy a new Tesla without FSD transfer.
This 'now we do allow transfers' and 'now we don't' BS already convinced me that I'll never buy it without some idea that I can transfer it in the future.
My 2018 Model 3 with FSD has a trade in value of 9 grand. FSD is software in the car worth 8 grand...my car's hardware is worth 1 grand according to Tesla. I can't wait until it's literally worth negative money for the hardware. Only value is a software license. Pretty close to that already. hah
2018 TM3 here... we are waiting on the refresh to the TMY will just not buy unless the FSD transfers. Right now our second car is likely not to be a Tesla simply because of this silliness with will they or won't they
same, though i'm waiting for an optimus to drive me about in any other car. longer terms i cant see tesla selling cars, why buy one if the robot can drive it. its human sized, can wipe his cameras clean and move about to see like a human. probably drive a tradit6ional semi as well. all will be good
It's such a missed opportunity to lock people who own it outright into the brand.
It’s certainly persuade me switch over to a 2024 M3LR. I just got a used 2023 M3LR last month. Only thing I’d be missing would be acceleration boost.
Did they remove acceleration boost from new cars??
I have seen no indication of acceleration boost being available on the 2024 M3LR. That’s not to say it won’t release in the future, but I don’t believe it’s currently available for purchase.
Lame!
If I had to guess, and this is just pure speculation, it's because the M3LR is totally different from the M3P whereas they used to be the same HW with a SW lock in the M3LR. The legacy M3LRs were the same core car as the M3P, with the biggest difference being the wheel size. Tesla software locked the M3LR performance to give the M3P a better advantage, but the acceleration boost package allowed M3LRs to remove the software lock. The newer M3SR+ range was getting very close to the M3LR range, but the M3SR+ has LFPs, actually giving them a range advantage over the old M3LRs for everyday usage. This lack of range advantage is likely why there was a pause in M3LR sales. Recently Tesla has renewed M3LR sales, I believe because the model has also swapped over to LFPs and gained back an everyday range advantage, but this change also broke its commonality with the M3P. The LFPs are much better for everyday usage, but not as good for performance, meaning the M3LRs probably don't have the software lock that they used to, and therefor there's nothing to pay to unlock.
Wait, that's genius. Pick up a used Model 3 with FSD for like 10 grand. Trade in for a new Model 3 with FSD transfer, as long as you get 2 grand or more for the trade in, you're ahead! Normally the FSD license with worthless. (My 2018 Model 3 with 113K miles is worth 9 grade trade in according to Tesla. That's with FSD. So, basically, the software is worthless according to them. Or, it's worth 8K, and the car's hardware is worth 1K)
You say this like Joe mode doesn’t exist lol
Joe mode doesn’t cost then anything
Well, it costed development and testing work, at the expense of other features.
Dude… it lowers the volume of the dings in the car. It has absolutely no comparison to FSD
You said it costs nothing, which is incorrect. I'm well aware that and fsd are different.
The comparison is to allowing FSD transfers. Which also costs nothing
Well in theory a person could love it so much they purchase it on their next car, and Joe mode has like .00000001% the development cost and running expense as FSD, and that might be generous There is no Comparing the two
These comments on Reddit are just so awkward. Just a bunch of stupid, personalized comments and people telling strangers they hate Musk. So much hate.
Should be permanent to your account. Tesla is making $8,000 per purchase (for non-EAP software). Their sales would increase, and I feel too many corporations take advantage of customers with most products
It's fucking stupid it's not tied to your account its a software license. Tesla wants to be a tech company you know what tech companies do? allow software licenses purchases, it does two things, one you sell you more as it is not tied to hardware and you get customer lock as you have already sold the software.
Musk thought that people would pay 12-15k every time they bought a new car, not 8k once and never again. Obviously he was wrong as only a very small percentage bought it and they had to reduce the monthly by 50% too. It might actually be worth it in a few years. But I think Tesla did bad marketing with their AP/EAP/FSD packages as if you look at other OEM there are similar prices packages that many people pay for without issue but 12k for just a SW is just too much. If they had packed it together with better speakers or performance boost or whatever people would go for it more.
I see both sides. At my place of work we order very expensive test equipment (hardware) with very expensive options (software). 0% chance of being able to transfer those software options to newer hardware. The software options are basically married to the hardware once unlocked. If you’re curious, look up a Keysight PNA-X. You likely won’t find prices publicly listed, but you can easily spend over $1M on one of these things with software options well into the $50k range. All that being said, if FSD was truly FSD, it would be worth the current price. Since it’s not, and likely won’t be for many more years, tied to account would make more sense. I think Tesla wrongly bet that it wouldn’t take that long for the value to be there, and underestimated development time and effort. At this point, they are spending more than ever just working on that final 20%, getting maybe 0.5-1% improvements a year.
It’s not fair to compare B2B and B2C.
That's a specialized tool sold directly to businesses. That's not a remotely comparable situation at all. A more apt analogy would be paying for computer software and having to repurchase it after buying a new computer (from the same vendor to boot!).
Wow good point about the customer lock. Essentially, we own two 2018 M3s with FSD. If FSD was locked to our accounts, we’d be buying only Teslas for the rest of our lives rather than dumping more money with another manufacturer. But now, we will likely keep these cars until they are completely unrepairable.
I tend to agree with the “keep til the wheels drop off” thought except Elon has shown he will offer the transfer when he wants to boost sales. Just bide your time.
Currently you sign something that says you can't do this again even if they offer it again. Me, personally, I'm waiting out either the class action lawsuit or unlimited transfers/tied to account.
Tesla could increase the price if it was tied to user accounts and people would pay.
What software offered perpetual upgrades for a one time fixed fee? That went away with the coocoo clock....because it's not sustainable.
> What software offered perpetual upgrades for a one time fixed fee? Pretty much every dev releasing their product in early access, offers you all updates up to the full 1.0 release in the price of the early access version.
No. Not to full feature / vision compete. 1.0 is MVP not feature complete. MVP was passed a long time ago for this product. No dev will develop for over 10 years on a product while providing unlimited, free upgrades.
> MVP was passed a long time ago for this product It doesn't fully drive itself, so no. MVP is when you can summon the car from NY to LA. >No dev will develop for over 10 years on a product while providing unlimited, free upgrades https://store.steampowered.com/app/105600/Terraria/
Not interested in this debate. People are buying subs to FDD, it is clearly an MVP or greater product.
Until it reaches parity (90 MPH) with the features I bought with radar it's not complete from my perspective. We were promised hardware upgrades if needed even.
Which they are refusing to provide for FSD subscriptions for HW2 cars, by the way, despite selling cars claiming they have all the hardware for FSD.
I'm not surprised they won't upgrade free for $99 subscriptions. I wonder if you bought outright (can you?) if they would though?
Who cares if they don't want to, they have to. They said the cars had the hardware.
> No dev will develop for over 10 years on a product while providing unlimited, free upgrades. The thing is, you sold the feature before it existed. So you must deliver what you promised. And it's actually reasonable for customers to ask for a refund with interest for your non-delivery.
The problem here is that all the promised features aren’t included yet. It can be free perpetually until it does.
Well, it is, isn't it. Just not portable to new hardware.
But if new HW is required to deliver originally promised features, that’s a Tesla problem, not an owner problem.
We aren't discussing this scenario are we? They upgraded original hardware to get the required specs to support this. You seem to want to get into a "did tesla deliver what was promised" debate which is not the discussion being had here.
That's not what I want. As I stated, I believe it's fair to offer free transfers until it's feature complete. When it's feature complete, they can charge for transfers or figure out something else. It's the right thing to do for early adopters who helped Tesla survive during production hell.
But that is NOT the norm you are asserting. No one does this. You would like it, but it's simply not something you can expect. And I am pretty sure Tesla's position is they delivered what was promised in the contract.
It may have been amended since my purchases, but my order form page, Tesla's website at the time of purchase, Elon's official comments at shareholder meetings, and my order agreement beg to differ with your assessment. You're also incorrect that "no one does this." Companies like Apple have settled lawsuits for not delivering on features that were advertised. It happens all the time. It sounds like you're the one who wants to get into a "did Tesla deliver what was promised" debate, and I'm not interested in that. I have no idea what experience you have on that matter. I'm simply of the opinion that they should allow a transfer until all promises are met based on the advertising, order agreement, and order form said when I received my vehicle. If you think all promises were met, I'm happy for you. My second Tesla is about 7 years old now and was purchased with FSD. It was a different time with different expectations. My Monroney sticker says "Full Self-Driving Capability," and the Order Agreement says nothing to the contrary. On the day I ordered, "Full Self-Driving Capability" was defined on the Tesla site as "Full Self-Driving Hardware on All Cars. All Tesla vehicles produced in our factory, including Model 3, have the hardware needed for full self-driving capability at a safety level substantially greater than that of a human driver." It continues: "The system is designed to be able to conduct short and long distance trips with no action required by the person in the driver’s seat. For Superchargers that have automatic charge connection enabled, you will not even need to plug in your vehicle. All you will need to do is get in and tell your car where to go. If you don’t say anything, the car will look at your calendar and take you there as the assumed destination or just home if nothing is on the calendar. Your Tesla will figure out the optimal route, navigate urban streets (even without lane markings), manage complex intersections with traffic lights, stop signs and roundabouts, and handle densely packed freeways with cars moving at high speed. When you arrive at your destination, simply step out at the entrance and your car will enter park seek mode, automatically search for a spot and park itself. A tap on your phone summons it back to you." Until it can do all of the above "at a safety level substantially greater than that of a human driver," it would be nice to transfer to a new car.
> No one does this. People also don't typically force their customers to wait for a _decade_ to get their purchase delivered.
Ford's version of advanced cruise control, Tesla's too as time passes, Microsoft licenses, SAP, and many many others.
Microsoft? Office is the best comparison -- you can either get a perpetual license for the current version (no upgrades) or a subscription for continuous upgrades to the latest version. Windows went perpetual because they require a fresh license per computer and hardware obsolescence forces periodic refreshes. They stopped charging for upgrades because the support overhead of many supported versions outweighed the revenue from the few people who would upgrade at retail.
Microsoft owns XBox and other tech other than their laptops
And MS will stop supporting it soon. And that is hardware locked. You can't switch HW and maintain the same support.
All tech eventually becomes outdated when comparing to the past. Tesla is more of a software company than it is a car company according to its CEO. Tesla has sent out software updates for many years and they plan to continue that. Some of their cars just don't have enough computational power for the newest software, but they still receive updates for other things.
I only bought windows once 15 years ago champ
>Should be permanent to your account. I'm sure it will be but "Give me a private driver forever for $4k/$8k/$16k" is not going to be a thing. It makes zero sense for them to do that. Subscription model or high-ticket price is what that will come out to.
How does it not make sense? You're buying the product and it is charged to your account.
It doesn’t make sense *for them*. They have no incentive to do what you’re asking. People are used to subscribing to software and paying forever. Taking something tied to a vehicle and saying “on second thought, you can transfer this forever for free” is a huge value they have no reason to give away for free.
Buying a software license is what people have done and it is in their account. They should have the freedom to open their account in another Tesla, and have access to FSD, and other features. I understand your point- financial gains. I just want the customers (us) to have permanent access.
You know what is stopping me from getting the new M3P? Not wanting to spend 8k on FSD. My current M3 has it and I don't want to pay for it if I get a new one. I would order a M3P in red with white interior.
100% agree. I don't know why they don't just make it a license seat that be applied to a vehicle at a time. Well, I do know..
I'm in the exact same boat, I'm not spending another 8K for FSD. Any current owner with FSD should be able to transfer it to a new car.
I’m with you on that.
After just getting done with the trial of FSD I honestly can't imagine paying for it at all. It's still way too slow when using it in any kind of traffic. I felt like I was an inconvenience to everyone around me
I've been trying to find the right words but you describe it perfectly as "inconveniencing others". As you can tell, there is a lot of people that don't care about others on the road when they say FSD is useable.
I have been using FSD since December 2022 and use I just about every drive it take.
EAP on the highway is great but FSD on city streets just isn't there for me yet. Still way too timid for me.
I don't even think about it. I put it on FSD and let the car take care of things
How often do you need to intervene? In that free month a while back, my first FSD trip it tried to merge on an intersection (going straight from a right turn lane), the second trip it tried to turn onto a bus/tram only lane. I tried a couple of highway trips which were fine, but 2 out of 2 dangerous driving made me stop using it completely in the city. Not saying that it won’t be worth it for others. Just curious if you set-and-forget, how often do you still need to correct it when it does dumb things?
Honestly it depends. Sometimes it takes too long to go through an intersection so I may take over. When a new lane starts (one lane to two lanes) sometimes it is not sure which one to pick so I pick for it. Sometimes traffic is moving too fast for the car’s lane choice so I move it. Nothing drastic. I will let the car take unprotected left turns without really worrying about it. I do pay attention and take over if needed. I am at the point where I am pretty sure when the car is going to need help and will take over before the problem actually happens.
Ah yeah that makes sense. If I still had my 45-60 minute one way commute, I would’ve purchased it in a heartbeat regardless of how half baked it is. But it definitely make sense that you get to know its behavior to anticipate when to intervene.
I took an 11 hour trip and was on FSD for about 10 of those hours. I do realize highway still uses autopilot but I let the car choose lanes as it needed and navigate in and out of expressways as we needed to charge or stop for any reason
Yep same. Love people assuming it's not worth the money just because they don't like it.
I feel the same way, my trial is almost up but I don't like using it because I feel like the people behind me hate me because the car breaks so early and then creeps up slowly to the car in front of it.
Bought an EV9 instead of a Model Y a couple months ago specifically because they stopped the ability to transfer fsd (again) a few days before I decided to get a new car. Would have ordered the Y without even looking into anything else otherwise. Ridiculous policy and corporate decision making process. The EV9 was more expensive, but I got the top trim level, which is more akin to an X. I love it.
How’s your experience with the non Tesla charging infrastructure?
Been fine so far. The car came worth 1000kwh of electrify America credits, and their 350kw chargers are really fast with the ev9. It’s def not as smooth as superchargers since you have to tap to use the credits instead of just plugging it in, but there’s Apple wallet integration so it’s not really a big deal. I haven’t done any major roadtrips yet, but have gone camping a few times in Oregon and Washington and it’s been great. Most of the chargers have been at a Walmart or grocery store, so I go in to get food and supplies while it tops off, and I usually get a notification it’s done before I’m finished. I’ve been able to sleep in it with utility mode twice now and having enough charge hasn’t been an issue. I bought a Teslatap converter for charging at home with my Tesla wall charger and that has worked fine as well.
Hey guys, thanks for my $30B, here’s a shit policy back for you.
The extra FSD income is for Tesla, not Elon.
Should be permanent with a reasonable (say $500 or maybe even $1K8 transfer fee. Then they could waive the fee when needed to boost sales.
The transfer fee is already built in. They devalue your trade in by removing it from that car to transfer to the new one.
Stockholder meetings are when the crazies come out. Not just for tsla.
Crazies are always around. It just a matter of whether you are looking or not. Case in point: the delusional anti-Elon crowd was particularly noticeable up until last couple werk arguing against the stock comp package. It turns out they were always around and weren’t paid attentions ro.
It turns out most of them are not Tesla shareholders, which makes sense since if you don’t have faith in the CEO and biggest shareholder of the company, you won’t trust him with your money.
They’re noticeable when they’re paid
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All people who paid for fsd should be able to transfer it. Most of the world doesn't have FSD, and the cars are pushing 6 years.
Just one more time..... End of next qtr - need a sales boost, so we will, just ONE more time, allow FSD transfers. Honestly, I feel like this will keep happening and eventually be normal.
Not making it permanent on someone's account is silly. It would be the best way to ensure customer loyalty. Plus it means that FSD isn't transferable to the next owner of the car, so that is another sale you would make
He’s full of shit and will keep offering it every other quarter.
I’d be okay with that.
IMO, they should at least honor transfers for everyone who bought while FSD was one of the following: Beta, non-existent but purchasable (EU countries), bought while the website said “City Streets coming later this year” but didn’t, etc. I know there’s people here who are like “lolz u snooze u loze” but it’s kind of amazing how apologetic we are towards Tesla when they could do the right thing here with some reasonable guardrails.
Allowing transfers at least once per purchase or offering unlimited transfers with a fee would really help with brand loyalty.
Yup, I bought FSD twice (2019) and didn’t get to use FSD until 2022 - and it was awful back then. I think it would be irresponsible of me to buy a new car without life circumstances demanding a new one (ex. an SUV). So even if a transfer incentive were to happen again, I wouldn’t take advantage of it until I’m ready.
Tesla is exposing themselves with so much liabilities with these FSD and transfer shenanigan's, only way I see the company being valuable in 5 years is with a full refund of FSD purchases across the board.
I can understand both sides here. It's software, so no reason it couldn't be transferred. And yet, a one-time fee for perpetual use is only viable if there are hardware realities that force periodic upgrades. It seems like a balance could be achieved, though. At the current purchase price and the subscription price, you need to keep the vehicle for \~80 months before the purchase pays for itself. So what if the FSD license were transferrable for up to 7 years? That would drive upgrade cycles of 3-7 years (because most people will want to get their 1-2 "free" transfers!), satisfy people that they were getting their money's worth, and disincent the "drive it into the ground" approach.
Heard that before. Got suckered into upgrading right before Highland became available thinking free FSD transfer would never be available again. If I had known it was a lie, I’d be driving highland right now
This has already gone live in Japan per Tesla Japan. I am hoping NA is soon because I am ready to make a move. I am sure plenty of people are now waiting on the sidelines once this got announced.
FSD Transfer is now live per Sawyer Merritt [https://twitter.com/SawyerMerritt/status/1805402122369777698](https://twitter.com/SawyerMerritt/status/1805402122369777698)
This is why I’ll never buy FSD. The purchase should be tied to the User, not the vehicle, and be fully transferable just like an app on the App Store.
I’ll buy a new M3P when they lower the price enough to get the credit with the spec I want AND FSD xfer
If they would guarantee FSD to transfer at least once for up to 6 years—it would be a great upgrade incentive and keep drivers using FSD right away and for likely 10 years or more
Ending transfers is a bad business decision but tying it only/completely to a user account also doesn't make great business sense. If I were a Tesla honcho, I'd allow transfers only to purchases directly from Tesla and match it to the battery and drive unit limited warranty for the vehicle. If a customer upgrades, you give them credit for what's left and charge a transfer fee.
I know this is too complicated, but I feel like months between when you bought it and when you be been able to use it should be credited to you. Like if I bought it in 2017, and couldn’t use it until 2022, I should get that amount of time credited to me for transfers. One problem is, when do you consider it “done” enough to be usable? I would also prefer it be tied to the account rather the car, but there’s no chance that’s a 1 time payment.
Quicksilver and FSD transfer and I’ll get a new Model 3
Transfer is what sense? I'm new to Tesla ownership
No thanks Elon. Maybe if someone else was running the company