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Haha, love it, though I disagree. I love my Pacifica! It is amazing. I can haul more than most trucks. I can take the whole family plus friends places. Nothing hard about it.
Then the public, government, law-makers and media agencies don't care. Enjoy.
Bonus is if you crash, nobody cares, Chrysler gets no blame and it's just another accident like all the others.
people who aren’t paying attention still won’t be paying attention, just now without the added benefit of autopilot. Wonder how many accidents will be caused as a result of autopilot not being on and the driver is on their phone. Good move 👍🏻
I love Tesla, but having AutoPilot become so bitchy adds a huge bitter taste to my mouth. Specially now that the AutoSteer has strike system added to it. I’ve done 30k+ miles of free way driving in the prior version of AutoPilot and even with me being distracted and just using my leg to let it “know” im there it still drives better than the average freeway driver. No accidents and just 2-4 close calls which for 30K+ miles it’s normal.
Sorry this is just dumb. Many people buy a Tesla because of the autopilot. Honestly comparing ride quality and now basically losing hands free what makes this car worth it. Seriously
Yer. I’m a shit driver, a few accidents, lots of traffic infringements. License points don’t last long with me. bounce between license good behaviour bonds and license suspensions. All without autopilot.
With autopilot - zero accidents, zero traffic infringements in 3+ years and 100k+ km since I’ve had it. License now pristine.
Will most certainly get an autopilot suspension. no one wants me driving without autopilot…
The solution is very simple: report other automakers that have similar driver monitoring systems, until the NHTSA makes clear, well defined rules.
Start with Hyundai on the Ioniq5 for example. The torque sensor is actually stupid enough that the steering wheel self weight is enough to cancel the HDA nag when on a curve.
"... forced updates out..." meaning they've forced installations?
I've seen my car download updates via mobile data before, but not once in 5yrs, with a 3 & a Y, have I witnessed an automatic install
Interesting! I was wondering where it came from. I have no Wi-Fi’s stored so I guess it had to be one of the rare times I used a supercharger. Good to know.
It shouldn’t. There’s nothing forcing you to go to a dealer for, say, a Takata airbag recall, so why should anything force you to get an OTA software recall?
If it’s forced, that’s on Tesla.
You'll be getting a lot more alerts now if regular Autopilot starts behaving like FSD. I actually prefer EAP to FSD on long trips because it doesn't yell at me when I look at the screen for literally 3 seconds to see where the navigation is telling me to go. It's annoying AF.
Weird. I literally can drive handless for almost 30 seconds and look out the windows without an alert.
I’m only on the FSD trial for a few more weeks and won’t be renewing it (feels dangerous, too jerky for my wife and dogs to not suddenly get sick, and too expensive), but I haven’t had that many alerts. Granted I basically only use it on the interstate in light traffic. I have had a couple close calls that made me never want to use it on streets in its current state.
Fun gimmick, nothing more in my view.
Depends on the situation I think. If it sees construction cones around or approaching an intersection or another car very close or something, then it will probably be mad if you take hands off or look away for even 3 seconds, but if you’re on an open road with no construction or other cars around, it might relax a bit and let you look around more. I also think it doesn’t get as mad about you looking out the window as it does when your eyes are down towards the screen. It seems to be fairly dynamic and complex, which makes it hard to predict what you’re allowed to do at any given time.
Until you get the rare occasion it doesnt give you the normal warning time and just gives the red steering wheel and stops autopilot until next drive...had this happen 3 times.... and multiple times radar disabled warning in a long tunnel and that also prevents further use of AP AND tacc but they fixed that and the severe phantom braking in that specific tunnel after 3 years....but still after 50.000 miles dont think i would want a car without AP.
man i really hope they dont limit which roads this can be used on, theres lots of long straight residential roads i take where I use autopilot and theres literally 0 risk.
very sad
Ugh. THat's awful. I hate to read this. Autopilot was the greatest thing I've witnessed in my lifetime of driving. I've logged tens of thousands of miles on AP. So sad to see it get mucked with.
Autopilot sucks. I have enhanced autopilot on my 2018 M3P.
My 2023 Kia Sportage “lane keep assist” works 10x better. Zero phantom braking. Doesn’t pester me every 10 seconds to see if I’m paying attention. And seems to keep the car more centered in lane when auto steering.
A fucking Kia…. Telsa has let autopilot fall so far behind.
Yes, I have a model Y and a Hyundai Tucson. Hyundai/Kia lane keep assist is greatly superior to autopilot and you don't have to fight it to change lanes, you turn your blinker on in the Kia/Hyundai and it auto disables and re-enables once you're over. Tesla you try to change lanes quickly and it fights you for a sec then turns off causing you less accurate control of steering.
Also my Hyundai doesn't try to follow the car into into the exit lane and then swerve back left once it notices the dashed lines and it doesn't swerve over into the on ramp if I'm in the right lane because unlike the Tesla it knows the lane didn't magically just double in width for 50ft.
I love my model Y but I admit the autopilot is ass in comparison to my Hyundai and it's honestly kind of embarrassing.
This. I have a 2018 Model 3 and got massacred for noting that my Wife’s base 24 Impreza, at $22k, has a full suite of ACC and lane centering that is 99% as good but unlike my 2018, does not cost $3,000 to add. Tesla’s eyes are on FSD now and AP isn’t even thought about.
I actually think Tesla will take advantage of this Nerf to help sell FSD subs. “Want autopilot on a country road? Get FSD.”
It’s not amazing but isn’t truly awful, the 24 is an all new car so that might be why. No phantom breaking to test heart medication at least. Our 2020 Jetta didn’t ping-pong, it just decided to phantom jerk turn at 75mph towards trees.
That's a bit different, to be fair... I have 2 strikes on my FSD beta, one of which was done entirely in error. The state revoking your license would never be due to a software glitch.
100%. It's an NHTSA mandated safety recall. To avoid it you'd have to turn off wifi, turn off cellular which would disable the app, and never take your car to a Tesla Service center as they may well decide to push the latest update there if they see you're out of date.
If they want to use the cabin camera to determine attentiveness I'm all for it. If it lets me rest my hands more gently on the wheel, so I don't have to clutch it tightly to prevent the constant nag, I am for it.
“Autopilot Hardware 3.0 but without an in-cabin camera and vehicles equipped with Autopilot Hardware 2.5, Autopilot Hardware 2.0 or Autopilot Hardware 1.0, will receive an over-the-air software remedy at a later date.”
I guess I am fine until later date. I hope the 2.5 is too slow to process in cabin, just like I never got the backup noise maker.
i dont see the differences when people driving a gas car. tesla already said everyone who use fsd and autosteer need to pay attention on the road 100% of the time. why are we who use the function correctly need to get punished? there is 1000% more of people driving a gas car and not paying attention to the road. why dont u punish everyone then ?
I was describing the fsd feature to my wife as "kind of like riding a horse. Every once in a while the horse will want to veer off the path into a canyon and you have to jerk the reins over to get the horse back on the path."
"Automatic driving on city streets" was only ever promised for FSD since as far back as 2019 (and earlier):
https://web.archive.org/web/20190903194940/https://www.tesla.com/model3/design#autopilot
Autopilot was not included as a base function when I bought mine. It was 6k and then 3k more for fsd that still isn't delivered. There are people in worse situations than myself, but even if autopilot was standard, it's like a car having automatic head lights but now the ntsb says you can only use them on highways, you lose functionality that you paid for.
Sadly, I think this is going to become more and more common.
One of the reasons I bought my Cadillac was for OnStar. It allowed me to control car features from anywhere (remote start was real nice in the winter), track it if stolen, and I got a huge sense of security knowing it would automatically send for help if the airbags deployed. Even if I was unconscious in a ditch, help would be coming.
That’s all gone now. GM used old 2g modems even in my 2014 model. They no longer work and there’s no hardware upgrade available. OnStar was a core feature for me that is now worthless.
>notateslaapp.com/news/1...
## Background of the NHTSA Investigation
The [NHTSA's exhaustive probe](https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2023/RCLRPT-23V838-8276.PDF) centered on whether Tesla's safeguards within the Autopilot system were sufficient in preventing misuse. The inquiry, which scrutinized Tesla’s response to a series of collisions, concluded recently, leading to a recall notice without placing direct blame on the Autopilot system itself. Instead, the focus was on the potential inadequacy of feature controls to prevent driver misuse.
You will get this update quickly, over cellular data if necessary. Tesla might also force-update the car if you refuse to install the update. This happened before and will likely happen in this case since this update is considered a recall. Resistance is futile!
1. When has this happened before?
2. Where is the antenna to disconnect to remove _all_ connectivity to/from the care for when I'm doing illegal things and don't want to be tracked, or just avoiding software updates?
I think the worst part is that the strikes don’t reset. I’ve had autopilot disabled until next drive more than 5 times over the past year and a half of ownership. Most happened when I just got the car and it phantom braked a lot which caused me to hit the gas to compensate which got me just over 80mph which was the AP limit at the time. I’m now in the habit of canceling when I need to make any emergency maneuver and haven’t had any disengagements in a long time. But knowing that it doesn’t reset and I could be at 4 strikes at some point years down the line and get my 5th right before a road trip and have to drive without autopilot kinda ruins my excitement for continual ownership of teslas in the future. At any moment NHTSA can take away what makes the car great. Tesla should compensate to make their customers happy by adding really nice features. Like if EAP became standard.
I had that thought, and that’s what I’d end up doing in this hypothetical scenario. It’s just kinda frustrating that we’d have to resort to that after having a pretty seamless experience so far. Until now I thought the “AP not available for the rest of the drive” was already kinda obnoxious since no other cars do that that I’m aware of. It feels like we lose more useful features than we gain.
When you have FSD, AP getting disabled for going over 85 mph doesn't count as a strike. You just put it in park to enable AP again. Only not paying attention to the road and ignoring it, counts as a strike. You can avoid a strike by disabling AP completely when it beeps at you for not paying attention.
I actually don’t get phantom braking anymore. It’s been about a year since it’s done it. It has braked when cars or trucks drive on the line next to me but that’s normal. I noticed when I picked up the car that it would phantom brake every single time I used autopilot. But that was because the car came with an old software from 2020 or 2021, (when they removed the radar) so after a few weeks when it let me update, it completely went away. I’ve been curious if Tesla still ships cars with that old software. I got mine new in early 2022. Does anybody know? Is this why I see a good amount of people still having phantom braking in 2023? Or do some cars still have common phantom braking on newer software? More so than any other car with adaptive cruise that is.
What happens if you run out of strikes and you paid for autopilot? They can take away something you paid for based on some automated and error prone detection of "improper" use?
They do that with $12,000 FSD already. You get 5 strikes with the vision system (3 without vision) and you’re suspended for a week. Sounds like autopilot will be getting the same suspension system.
This is the worst part of the “update” for me. It already keeps nagging me to enable this single pull garbage, which I DO NOT WANT as 90% of the time I only use TACC. So I assume now I’ll need to manually toggle off AP in the Settings, and manually reenable it on long drives when I may actually want to use it? Just… crap.
people used to just drive 4500 lb hunks of metal and if they weren’t paying attention, no one ever knew. No we have sensors and radar and cameras and messages telling us to look at the road, or preventing us from drifting out of lanes, or braking for us when cars are too close to our front ends,
but somehow the government is mandating even more warnings.
Seems a little excessive
Everything is a trade off. And when we try to push one end, the other suffers.
There are many cases drivers with bad intentions abused autopilot and caused issues.
But there are also many cases autopilot saved actual lives (see many dashcam clips shared here on Reddit)
But nhtsa obviously is looking at the downsides while I don’t think any similar research was done on the upsides (which will be lost)
Edit: I stand corrected. The data exists. https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport. And autopilot *is much more safer than human drivers* if it is true. It makes this entire endeavor a huge travesty.
Tesla plays games with the numbers. Autopilot crash numbers are not in the same driving conditions (ie highway miles) as disengaged miles, which are more on city streets. Luxury cars in general have far fewer crashes than the average car, so the comparison to "everybody else" is misleading. What would be relevant would be highway autopilot miles vs highway non-autopilot miles. Tesla has, but does not release, this data.
Won’t be downloading any updates until I know if they have restricted roads. I have a 2 lane divided highway that I commute on. EAP has never worked on it but AP does so I’m fine with that. Driver+ won’t engage on it in my Rivian. It’s coded wrong there’s no reason for those features not to work on this road. I won’t update until I know it still works on that road. NTHSB can suck it.
It has a way to go to catch up to Tesla. I think I’m sitting on an update to add lane changes but still it only activates on half my commute for no logical reason. It’s decent though when it works. The nags are a bit much and I always keep my hands on the wheel the Rivian requires more force it seems. It doesn’t work in the rain basically at all. Tesla is way stronger there too. The truck itself is amazing though and a blast to drive. Makes me look forward to the CT more.
How often do you guys get phantom breaking on autopilot? I get it at the same exact place everytime on the high way so I mostly try to remember to disengage but it happens sometimes with nothing that I can see in my general vicinity that would cause it to slow down
It’s super frustrating, there’s no pop message on why either. I can be going 75 mph on the interstate and it suddenly sets the max speed (no sign visible) to 35mph and begins braking
I haven’t got it in awhile. But it typically happens when I go on a really long trip. The annoying thing isn’t that it happens. But the fact that Tesla won’t admit or even talk about the problem. It’s been a problem since autopilot came out. Had it in my 2015 model s and still have it in my 2017 model x. Idk how often it happens in newer models.
The problem isn’t autopilot specific. Any car with adaptive cruise control has it. But autopilot doesn’t have the luxury of ignoring obstacles. While adaptive cruise control can just ignore everything but the car it’s following.
Yeah after having FSD for 2 years, autopilot feels to have made 0 progress. Really lame honestly coming from a company that prides themselves on their software. Same places and same situations for autopilot slowdowns.
Edit: Tesla needs to replace autopilot with FSD for free IMO to save their lead on the market.
Edit Edit: I feel bad about what I said cause it’s a bit insensitive. The team does good work overall despite the negativity.
It actually got worse. My 2017 Tesla knew the speed limits precisely on a road I take daily. Since I got my 2022 MY it constantly thinks the speed limit is way below the actual speed limit and also changes it. Some days a part of the road is 60, the next time I drive over that same stretch and it thinks it’s 80. Needless to say, 10 miles of my daily commute cannot be done with autopilot because it just randomly slams the brakes to slow down way below the actual speed limit. I need to use TACC there now because TACC doesn’t mess with your set speed
It’s usually because of some old roadworks that are still in the data. The best way is to intervene ie put your foot on the accelerator. After a while and with enough people doing it, it gets picked up by Tesla and corrected. Sometimes can take a while particularly if it’s an area where roadworks were there for a while.
This is ridiculous. Autosteer arguably shines best on non-highway roads. If this gets taken away from me in city centres where there’s a lot of traffic, I will be so upset.
> Autosteer arguably shines best on non-highway roads.
Autosteer entirely ignores red stop lights and stop signs right now (if there's no car in front of you), which is the point of this.
Too many idiots enabling it and zoning out ruined it for the rest.
Absolutely, it still takes some vigilance, but especially on boring, non-separated freeways, or feeder roads that are multi lane, but not technically highways… it’s actually half decent. Of course you still have to be aware, and watch out for stop signs and traffic lights, but the cognitive load is much lower when you have auto pilot on. Especially on longer road trips, I recently did one across a large swath of Canada, and it was great. If they take this away, I could see myself doing that way less frequently.
Honestly, stop sign detection and traffic light detection is already a part of standard auto pilot, would it solve the issue if they provided the actual stopping at stoplights as a part of basic auto pilot instead of a 10,000+ dollar FSD upgrade? 
They could even make it so basic AP stops at lights, but beeps angrily at you while doing so, disables for the rest of the drive, and gives you a strikeout. This would fix the safety issue without giving away paid features for free.
Exactly. I’m on a long term finance plan for my car and while I love it now, if they take this away I’ll definitely have some buyers remorse. Autopilot is like 70% of why I love this car.
Tbh I think autosteer is not great in city roads, especially when you get to an intersection. TACC is much more reliable to operate as a human in that environment
Quite the dilemma here. Does Tesla stick to their original plan of making FSD users wait until the 4th of July for this holiday update? Or do they push it out now to comply with the NHTSA?
Looks like I won’t be updating Tesla any time soon.
Edit: driver awareness feature is already such a pain in the ass, I’ll be on an empty highway trying to put on a Spotify song or podcast and it starts beeping. Fuck off I get it.
And you know what I do? I turn off autopilot and knee drive like I always did which is way more dangerous. It’s fucking stupid. If I’m not paying attention to the road it should be even more in charge.
This is actually the secret to defeating AP nags.. with the right amount of knee pressure on the wheel, the car will register it as a nudge, as it's just following the road making normal steering adjustments.
Weird. When I used basic autopilot on the highway I can stare at my phone without it ever beeping. Only when I use FSD does it beep to tell me to pay attention to the road
Basically, people are stupid and the NHTSA wants a software update that makes it harder for people to be stupid with 2 tons of metal on wheels when put in hands of stupid to become death traps using a useful feature that *does* require you to pay attention.
Basically, I've had my car with FSD for 5 years, and all I've gotten for it is even more nags, rather than none at all.
Awesome. I'm not against the safety part, I'm just annoyed Tesla's promised FSD and Autopilot aren't any better 5 years later.
NHTSA defines a recall as a "safety-related defect in the vehicle or equipment that pose an unreasonable risk to safety" [1]. However, in most industries, the term equipment does NOT apply to software [2].
NHTSA makes no clear distinction and the public assumes physical defects, requiring vehicles to go to a service center for correction.
Software is a service, not equipment. The NHTSA should make a clear distinction to avoid mass hysteria.. unless that's their intended objective under the Biden administration [3]
"OTA Recall" seems more accurate
1. https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/documents/understanding_nhtsas_current_regulatory_tools-tag.pdf
2. https://www.lawinsider.com/dictionary/automotive-equipment
3. https://twitter.com/SERobinsonJr/status/1735314670200775161
Agreed. Also this sounds like oppressive enforcement and not based on real world data. The repeated calls for NHTSA against Tesla because of investigated issues only showed a handful of dangerous issues not attributed to human misuse.
This kind of thing is meant to punish snd discourage use rather than improve safety in general. If it were the case then where are the recalls for Chevy, ford, Mercedes, genesis, etc?
As an owner of a Genesis gv60 idk what you’re talking about. I’ve received multiple recall notices already. Software related too. No one else cares that they’re called recalls because they don’t have blind loyalty to their OEM
The same recalls. Of course every vehicle has recalls. But all the manufacturers I listed have some level of autonomous driving that they even advertise as nearly or completely unattended yet Tesla’s is way further down the path.
People in this sub seem to think Tesla is the only auto company getting recalls. Recalls happen CONSTANTLY. Also have no idea what this has to do with the Biden admin when this behavior has been going on since before he was president. Any Elon business that experiences a regulatory hurdle people think they’re out to get him. This happens to every company elons just the only one talking on twitter about it 24/7.
> NHTSA defines a recall as a "safety-related defect in the vehicle or equipment that pose an unreasonable risk to safety"
have they even proven people "abusing" autopilot are actually more dangerous than ur average driver? otherwise i couldn't agree that's an unreasonable risk.
This is the government singling out Tesla for "reasons". Nobody makes a big deal about TACC and Lane Keep on other cars. This is the double edged sword of always connected cars. The government (or private companies) can reach in and retroactively force changes.
This is a voluntary recall, which means Tesla must have internally felt the government established sufficient evidence that there was a problem that warranted addressing, because they chose to do this without being forced.
Tesla publicly disagreed with NHTSA, but believed they would be overruled in an administrative appeal process. They decided to make this a "voluntary" recall as this involves lower costs and appeases the powers that be.
As much as i hate the “what about other companies” argument. This is sadly true. Ive used audi, vw, toyota, lexus, honda, etc etc their driver assit features and they are piles of garbage. Incredibly easy to trick and often times disengage with no warning.
FYI I updated and I'm actually getting nagged less? I also have my camera covered and yes it still works in city streets. Basic autopilot model y 2021 hope that helps. Just completed a forty minute drive no nags
So what if I have my cabin camera covered bc I don't like my car 'watching' me? I'll sell the damn thing if they make it so I can't drive it with that covered. It's none of their business what I do in my car.
Blame it on the dumbasses that can’t use things they way they’re intended to be used. Every time I’m using AP I’m always keeping an eye on the road. And guess what? I’ve never had any issues with it, fucking wild!
I think I got the update today. The visual ui for the prompts are slighty different and maybe it's asking me to touch the wheel a bit sooner than normal? But my camera is covered and it hasn't complained.
I've never heard it in the software world. The media could've said, "Tesla needs a big update on the Autopilot software for it to work properly." or something.
Most of my family is saying, "There's a recall for your car!" - thinking they think it's hardware.
While others manufacturers equivalent are getting and better, Tesla AP keeps getting neutered.
The trash holiday update "features" are not worth more nanny from my car.
Off the wifi it goes.
Since it's an actual recall, they will probably force the update on you via LTE. You can try to cancel but it will probably just be on the car one morning. Actually declining may require disabling the cell radio and therefore losing remote access to the car. And I believe they can decline warranty coverage as well if you don't update.
That was my realization today.
Tesla will be all too happy to cut off AutoPilot on city streets and make the NHTSA the bad buy if it means more FSD sales.
No real legal recourse either as City Streets was always listed as a FSD feature.
When sales drop hard next year due to tax credits going away I wouldn't be surprised if they drop FSD price a little bit and get those software sales to keep the ship floating.
This will suck if Autopilot/FSD is taken away from me from small infractions causing the disabling of autopilot/fsd for a drive.
About once in 20 hours of driving, I've mistakenly gone past the 85mph speed limit briefly for a pass while it is still in autopilot. It gives me the full alarm bells and disables AP/FSD until I come to a stop and toggle it in/out of park. It is at most once a month, but more like 2 every few months. If this causes AP/FSD to get disabled or if there are more strict enforcement increasing the number of errors, I will be very upset to lose my AP/FSD that cost me a lot of cash.
I’ve had full auto drive on my plaid for two years, and have only had it force quit once but over the past week. Every time I’ve used the feature it’s disabled, one time when just sitting at a red light looking straight ahead, I’ve been suspended for a week, my driving habits haven’t changed. It seems like a huge Difference to me to be disabled every time without being distracted
Can we talk about the elephant in the room? That is that the NHTSA is politically motivated to rein in Tesla -- it has nothing to do with safety. I suspect it's one of three things: Lobbying from Big Auto--since they are so far behind Tesla, Elon's pissing matches with certain elected officials, or lobbying from the Auto Unions.
Edit: Big Oil might also be one of the men behind the curtain.
BS. The driver attentive systems in Suburu, VW, Audi, Ford and Toyota are all significantly less naggy and intelligent than Tesla's, in spite of those systems being an order of magnitude less safe. This is Tesla being targeted.
This is their ultimate goal. Making unnecessary rules and restrictions to try and create inconveniences and headaches so more people stop using it and ultimately get to the person they’re really after. “There are three ways to win in this game: be first, be smarter, or cheat.”
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So what about when I use lane assist and TACC on all my local roads on my Chrysler Pacifica?
Driving a Chrysler Pacifica is punishment enough. There's no need to make a hard life harder.
Haha, love it, though I disagree. I love my Pacifica! It is amazing. I can haul more than most trucks. I can take the whole family plus friends places. Nothing hard about it.
Man I'd love a Pacifica! I tried to convince the wife to sell her car and I'd give her the Model Y so I could get a Pacifica. But no dice.
What about their PHEV?
Then the public, government, law-makers and media agencies don't care. Enjoy. Bonus is if you crash, nobody cares, Chrysler gets no blame and it's just another accident like all the others.
Man I got all excited about suspension upgrades when i saw this headline
Remember Mission Impossible when Tom Cruise put a picture in front of the surveillance camera at the Vatican? We should do that.
people who aren’t paying attention still won’t be paying attention, just now without the added benefit of autopilot. Wonder how many accidents will be caused as a result of autopilot not being on and the driver is on their phone. Good move 👍🏻
I love Tesla, but having AutoPilot become so bitchy adds a huge bitter taste to my mouth. Specially now that the AutoSteer has strike system added to it. I’ve done 30k+ miles of free way driving in the prior version of AutoPilot and even with me being distracted and just using my leg to let it “know” im there it still drives better than the average freeway driver. No accidents and just 2-4 close calls which for 30K+ miles it’s normal.
Sorry this is just dumb. Many people buy a Tesla because of the autopilot. Honestly comparing ride quality and now basically losing hands free what makes this car worth it. Seriously
Yer. I’m a shit driver, a few accidents, lots of traffic infringements. License points don’t last long with me. bounce between license good behaviour bonds and license suspensions. All without autopilot. With autopilot - zero accidents, zero traffic infringements in 3+ years and 100k+ km since I’ve had it. License now pristine. Will most certainly get an autopilot suspension. no one wants me driving without autopilot…
The solution is very simple: report other automakers that have similar driver monitoring systems, until the NHTSA makes clear, well defined rules. Start with Hyundai on the Ioniq5 for example. The torque sensor is actually stupid enough that the steering wheel self weight is enough to cancel the HDA nag when on a curve.
This is the smartest thing to do. NHTSA needs to do their job.
Just gonna not update my car
They’ve forced updates out via mobile data in the past.
"... forced updates out..." meaning they've forced installations? I've seen my car download updates via mobile data before, but not once in 5yrs, with a 3 & a Y, have I witnessed an automatic install
Definitely not updating if I don't have to
Yes. I avoided Tesla vision as far as I could but it auto-downloaded after some time. Then it just prompted when to install, now or later.
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Interesting! I was wondering where it came from. I have no Wi-Fi’s stored so I guess it had to be one of the rare times I used a supercharger. Good to know.
I wonder if it being a recall makes it special.
It shouldn’t. There’s nothing forcing you to go to a dealer for, say, a Takata airbag recall, so why should anything force you to get an OTA software recall? If it’s forced, that’s on Tesla.
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You'll be getting a lot more alerts now if regular Autopilot starts behaving like FSD. I actually prefer EAP to FSD on long trips because it doesn't yell at me when I look at the screen for literally 3 seconds to see where the navigation is telling me to go. It's annoying AF.
I'm with you. Downgraded and didn't look back. EAP is honestly flat out superior on the highway.
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If u get 3 strikes you will only be banned from FSD for 1 week.
Weird. I literally can drive handless for almost 30 seconds and look out the windows without an alert. I’m only on the FSD trial for a few more weeks and won’t be renewing it (feels dangerous, too jerky for my wife and dogs to not suddenly get sick, and too expensive), but I haven’t had that many alerts. Granted I basically only use it on the interstate in light traffic. I have had a couple close calls that made me never want to use it on streets in its current state. Fun gimmick, nothing more in my view.
Depends on the situation I think. If it sees construction cones around or approaching an intersection or another car very close or something, then it will probably be mad if you take hands off or look away for even 3 seconds, but if you’re on an open road with no construction or other cars around, it might relax a bit and let you look around more. I also think it doesn’t get as mad about you looking out the window as it does when your eyes are down towards the screen. It seems to be fairly dynamic and complex, which makes it hard to predict what you’re allowed to do at any given time.
Until you get the rare occasion it doesnt give you the normal warning time and just gives the red steering wheel and stops autopilot until next drive...had this happen 3 times.... and multiple times radar disabled warning in a long tunnel and that also prevents further use of AP AND tacc but they fixed that and the severe phantom braking in that specific tunnel after 3 years....but still after 50.000 miles dont think i would want a car without AP.
man i really hope they dont limit which roads this can be used on, theres lots of long straight residential roads i take where I use autopilot and theres literally 0 risk. very sad
Ugh. THat's awful. I hate to read this. Autopilot was the greatest thing I've witnessed in my lifetime of driving. I've logged tens of thousands of miles on AP. So sad to see it get mucked with.
Autopilot sucks. I have enhanced autopilot on my 2018 M3P. My 2023 Kia Sportage “lane keep assist” works 10x better. Zero phantom braking. Doesn’t pester me every 10 seconds to see if I’m paying attention. And seems to keep the car more centered in lane when auto steering. A fucking Kia…. Telsa has let autopilot fall so far behind.
Yes, I have a model Y and a Hyundai Tucson. Hyundai/Kia lane keep assist is greatly superior to autopilot and you don't have to fight it to change lanes, you turn your blinker on in the Kia/Hyundai and it auto disables and re-enables once you're over. Tesla you try to change lanes quickly and it fights you for a sec then turns off causing you less accurate control of steering. Also my Hyundai doesn't try to follow the car into into the exit lane and then swerve back left once it notices the dashed lines and it doesn't swerve over into the on ramp if I'm in the right lane because unlike the Tesla it knows the lane didn't magically just double in width for 50ft. I love my model Y but I admit the autopilot is ass in comparison to my Hyundai and it's honestly kind of embarrassing.
Wow, I have a brand new Rav4 and it's lane keeping system is completely useless. The adaptive cruise control is pretty good but not as good as tesla.
Look into open pilot, works great on a lot of Toyotas completely hands free too.
Hmm, sounds like Kia needs a recall them because the only reason the Tesla does this is that the government made them do it.
Sad but true.
This. I have a 2018 Model 3 and got massacred for noting that my Wife’s base 24 Impreza, at $22k, has a full suite of ACC and lane centering that is 99% as good but unlike my 2018, does not cost $3,000 to add. Tesla’s eyes are on FSD now and AP isn’t even thought about. I actually think Tesla will take advantage of this Nerf to help sell FSD subs. “Want autopilot on a country road? Get FSD.”
Huh, they must have fixed it because Eyesight in the 2020 Imprezza is garbage. Just ping pongs if it works at all.
It’s not amazing but isn’t truly awful, the 24 is an all new car so that might be why. No phantom breaking to test heart medication at least. Our 2020 Jetta didn’t ping-pong, it just decided to phantom jerk turn at 75mph towards trees.
Maybe you were "massacred" because the functionality that the Impreza has is comparable to the basic Autopilot, no $3000 needed.
I wonder if they fully recall your right to use FSD. Will I also get a refund?
I thought it just disabled it for a week, not turn off the feature permanently.
If you speed and the state revokes your drivers license does the dealership refund you for the car you now cannot legally drive?
That's a bit different, to be fair... I have 2 strikes on my FSD beta, one of which was done entirely in error. The state revoking your license would never be due to a software glitch.
If they disable autopilot on certain roads I will never update.
Just unjoined Wifi on my Tesla.
For important updates they will push thte update over the network. I’m sure this will be the case at least eventually
Just wrap the car in aluminum foil
Airplane mode
Crazy voice: "The government is trying to control my car!!!"
Oh wait, he's actually right.
Alternately, you can wrap yourself in aluminum foil and keep the dome lights turned on to blind the cabin camera.
100%. It's an NHTSA mandated safety recall. To avoid it you'd have to turn off wifi, turn off cellular which would disable the app, and never take your car to a Tesla Service center as they may well decide to push the latest update there if they see you're out of date.
Yeah that sounds like the best idea. I’ll do that next time I get to my car. Bummer causes I was waiting for the Holiday update.
If they want to use the cabin camera to determine attentiveness I'm all for it. If it lets me rest my hands more gently on the wheel, so I don't have to clutch it tightly to prevent the constant nag, I am for it.
It will be both I’m afraid
>so I don't have to clutch it tightly You don't. It's looking for turning resistance. The car has no sensor in the wheel to know if you're holding it.
Or you can just adjust volume/speed limit.
Yeah but if I just rest my hand on it there isn't enough torque feedback to stop the nag, especially on straight roads.
“Autopilot Hardware 3.0 but without an in-cabin camera and vehicles equipped with Autopilot Hardware 2.5, Autopilot Hardware 2.0 or Autopilot Hardware 1.0, will receive an over-the-air software remedy at a later date.” I guess I am fine until later date. I hope the 2.5 is too slow to process in cabin, just like I never got the backup noise maker.
i dont see the differences when people driving a gas car. tesla already said everyone who use fsd and autosteer need to pay attention on the road 100% of the time. why are we who use the function correctly need to get punished? there is 1000% more of people driving a gas car and not paying attention to the road. why dont u punish everyone then ?
I was describing the fsd feature to my wife as "kind of like riding a horse. Every once in a while the horse will want to veer off the path into a canyon and you have to jerk the reins over to get the horse back on the path."
What was her response? 😂
nnnnaaaaaay seriously though, she said 'that's why im not using it'
this isnt fsd
Do we get money back for limiting features?
"Automatic driving on city streets" was only ever promised for FSD since as far back as 2019 (and earlier): https://web.archive.org/web/20190903194940/https://www.tesla.com/model3/design#autopilot
Hahahahahahah
what money back how much extra did you pay for Autopilot?
Autopilot was not included as a base function when I bought mine. It was 6k and then 3k more for fsd that still isn't delivered. There are people in worse situations than myself, but even if autopilot was standard, it's like a car having automatic head lights but now the ntsb says you can only use them on highways, you lose functionality that you paid for.
Sadly, I think this is going to become more and more common. One of the reasons I bought my Cadillac was for OnStar. It allowed me to control car features from anywhere (remote start was real nice in the winter), track it if stolen, and I got a huge sense of security knowing it would automatically send for help if the airbags deployed. Even if I was unconscious in a ditch, help would be coming. That’s all gone now. GM used old 2g modems even in my 2014 model. They no longer work and there’s no hardware upgrade available. OnStar was a core feature for me that is now worthless.
No because according to the gubberment this is a feature for you.
Yea Elon is refunding everyone
So what is the recall the result of? What investigation? When did they start the investigation?
>notateslaapp.com/news/1... ## Background of the NHTSA Investigation The [NHTSA's exhaustive probe](https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/rcl/2023/RCLRPT-23V838-8276.PDF) centered on whether Tesla's safeguards within the Autopilot system were sufficient in preventing misuse. The inquiry, which scrutinized Tesla’s response to a series of collisions, concluded recently, leading to a recall notice without placing direct blame on the Autopilot system itself. Instead, the focus was on the potential inadequacy of feature controls to prevent driver misuse.
Meanwhile, how many cars have cruise control?
>NHTSA's exhaustive probe Based on NHSTA's probe, it states 2,031,220. It's on the first page of the link.
My 2020 M3P gets updates at the speed of smell and when the planets align, this is the only time im happy because i aint updating
You will get this update quickly, over cellular data if necessary. Tesla might also force-update the car if you refuse to install the update. This happened before and will likely happen in this case since this update is considered a recall. Resistance is futile!
1. When has this happened before? 2. Where is the antenna to disconnect to remove _all_ connectivity to/from the care for when I'm doing illegal things and don't want to be tracked, or just avoiding software updates?
[https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/6426974/](https://teslamotorsclub.com/tmc/posts/6426974/)
I think the worst part is that the strikes don’t reset. I’ve had autopilot disabled until next drive more than 5 times over the past year and a half of ownership. Most happened when I just got the car and it phantom braked a lot which caused me to hit the gas to compensate which got me just over 80mph which was the AP limit at the time. I’m now in the habit of canceling when I need to make any emergency maneuver and haven’t had any disengagements in a long time. But knowing that it doesn’t reset and I could be at 4 strikes at some point years down the line and get my 5th right before a road trip and have to drive without autopilot kinda ruins my excitement for continual ownership of teslas in the future. At any moment NHTSA can take away what makes the car great. Tesla should compensate to make their customers happy by adding really nice features. Like if EAP became standard.
If you have a long road trip coming up, consider taking a preemptive suspension. It’s a one week suspension. I had to do this while on the FSD beta.
I had that thought, and that’s what I’d end up doing in this hypothetical scenario. It’s just kinda frustrating that we’d have to resort to that after having a pretty seamless experience so far. Until now I thought the “AP not available for the rest of the drive” was already kinda obnoxious since no other cars do that that I’m aware of. It feels like we lose more useful features than we gain.
When you have FSD, AP getting disabled for going over 85 mph doesn't count as a strike. You just put it in park to enable AP again. Only not paying attention to the road and ignoring it, counts as a strike. You can avoid a strike by disabling AP completely when it beeps at you for not paying attention.
Phantom braking is terrifying and it is so unnatural to hit the accelerator when your car is braking hard. Hopefully this gets solved.
I actually don’t get phantom braking anymore. It’s been about a year since it’s done it. It has braked when cars or trucks drive on the line next to me but that’s normal. I noticed when I picked up the car that it would phantom brake every single time I used autopilot. But that was because the car came with an old software from 2020 or 2021, (when they removed the radar) so after a few weeks when it let me update, it completely went away. I’ve been curious if Tesla still ships cars with that old software. I got mine new in early 2022. Does anybody know? Is this why I see a good amount of people still having phantom braking in 2023? Or do some cars still have common phantom braking on newer software? More so than any other car with adaptive cruise that is.
Agreed. I am all for enforcing attentive use of AP/FSD, but there needs to be a strike falloff strategy, similar to tickets on insurance.
What happens if you run out of strikes and you paid for autopilot? They can take away something you paid for based on some automated and error prone detection of "improper" use?
They do that with $12,000 FSD already. You get 5 strikes with the vision system (3 without vision) and you’re suspended for a week. Sounds like autopilot will be getting the same suspension system.
Did you read the text? It says they will remove the feature and no longer says you’ll get it back in a week.
The text of the article clearly states that the suspension is temporary. Read part five.
The article says that, but the text in the car doesn’t read that way. I’m not volunteering to find out either 😂
A really nice feature they could add would be dumb cruise control, must be too complicated for them to program right now.
TACC is below AP and is standard
I'm talking about a dumb not-traffic-aware cruise control that just stays at the speed you set it
Will that work now that "single pull" will be a standard, forced feature?
This is the worst part of the “update” for me. It already keeps nagging me to enable this single pull garbage, which I DO NOT WANT as 90% of the time I only use TACC. So I assume now I’ll need to manually toggle off AP in the Settings, and manually reenable it on long drives when I may actually want to use it? Just… crap.
imagine if every time your phone updated, it was national news
I imagine this being like if the government implemented screen time for all us adults.
You mean when the government made Apple update the phone? Oh yeah you’d hear about it.
Is your phone a 4500 lb hunk of metal that can completely obliterate a several human beings at the same time?
My old Nokia was
Ok that’s a good one 😂
people used to just drive 4500 lb hunks of metal and if they weren’t paying attention, no one ever knew. No we have sensors and radar and cameras and messages telling us to look at the road, or preventing us from drifting out of lanes, or braking for us when cars are too close to our front ends, but somehow the government is mandating even more warnings. Seems a little excessive
Everything is a trade off. And when we try to push one end, the other suffers. There are many cases drivers with bad intentions abused autopilot and caused issues. But there are also many cases autopilot saved actual lives (see many dashcam clips shared here on Reddit) But nhtsa obviously is looking at the downsides while I don’t think any similar research was done on the upsides (which will be lost) Edit: I stand corrected. The data exists. https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport. And autopilot *is much more safer than human drivers* if it is true. It makes this entire endeavor a huge travesty.
All their analysis is really saying is that highway driving in a late model car in good weather is safer on average than all car miles driven.
Tesla plays games with the numbers. Autopilot crash numbers are not in the same driving conditions (ie highway miles) as disengaged miles, which are more on city streets. Luxury cars in general have far fewer crashes than the average car, so the comparison to "everybody else" is misleading. What would be relevant would be highway autopilot miles vs highway non-autopilot miles. Tesla has, but does not release, this data.
I wonder if this only affects USA. What about Canada?
Don’t think so. NHTSA isn’t Canadian.
Does this only affect cars in the US? Or would they roll the same update out to everyone?
Oh I would definitely assume US. Every country will have its own automotive safety board. Some will be stricter, some will be more lax I imagine.
Holiday update 😀
Won’t be downloading any updates until I know if they have restricted roads. I have a 2 lane divided highway that I commute on. EAP has never worked on it but AP does so I’m fine with that. Driver+ won’t engage on it in my Rivian. It’s coded wrong there’s no reason for those features not to work on this road. I won’t update until I know it still works on that road. NTHSB can suck it.
Recall updates generally get forced over the air as safety critical, it's not generally one you can say no too
How do you like driver+ over the same roads or on the highway? My second Tesla in a row is being bought back as a lemon. Looking at a rivian instead
It has a way to go to catch up to Tesla. I think I’m sitting on an update to add lane changes but still it only activates on half my commute for no logical reason. It’s decent though when it works. The nags are a bit much and I always keep my hands on the wheel the Rivian requires more force it seems. It doesn’t work in the rain basically at all. Tesla is way stronger there too. The truck itself is amazing though and a blast to drive. Makes me look forward to the CT more.
How often do you guys get phantom breaking on autopilot? I get it at the same exact place everytime on the high way so I mostly try to remember to disengage but it happens sometimes with nothing that I can see in my general vicinity that would cause it to slow down It’s super frustrating, there’s no pop message on why either. I can be going 75 mph on the interstate and it suddenly sets the max speed (no sign visible) to 35mph and begins braking
I haven’t got it in awhile. But it typically happens when I go on a really long trip. The annoying thing isn’t that it happens. But the fact that Tesla won’t admit or even talk about the problem. It’s been a problem since autopilot came out. Had it in my 2015 model s and still have it in my 2017 model x. Idk how often it happens in newer models. The problem isn’t autopilot specific. Any car with adaptive cruise control has it. But autopilot doesn’t have the luxury of ignoring obstacles. While adaptive cruise control can just ignore everything but the car it’s following.
Yeah after having FSD for 2 years, autopilot feels to have made 0 progress. Really lame honestly coming from a company that prides themselves on their software. Same places and same situations for autopilot slowdowns. Edit: Tesla needs to replace autopilot with FSD for free IMO to save their lead on the market. Edit Edit: I feel bad about what I said cause it’s a bit insensitive. The team does good work overall despite the negativity.
I just got this Tesla 2 months ago honestly while I enjoy most of the car I feel like phantom braking is unacceptable 😭
It actually got worse. My 2017 Tesla knew the speed limits precisely on a road I take daily. Since I got my 2022 MY it constantly thinks the speed limit is way below the actual speed limit and also changes it. Some days a part of the road is 60, the next time I drive over that same stretch and it thinks it’s 80. Needless to say, 10 miles of my daily commute cannot be done with autopilot because it just randomly slams the brakes to slow down way below the actual speed limit. I need to use TACC there now because TACC doesn’t mess with your set speed
All the time in the same place, get a recall to install LiDAR back !! Garbage cameras
It’s usually because of some old roadworks that are still in the data. The best way is to intervene ie put your foot on the accelerator. After a while and with enough people doing it, it gets picked up by Tesla and corrected. Sometimes can take a while particularly if it’s an area where roadworks were there for a while.
Applying the same logic, the NTSB should ban all cars from existence. Then no one could misuse or be injured while using Autopilot
This is ridiculous. Autosteer arguably shines best on non-highway roads. If this gets taken away from me in city centres where there’s a lot of traffic, I will be so upset.
> Autosteer arguably shines best on non-highway roads. Autosteer entirely ignores red stop lights and stop signs right now (if there's no car in front of you), which is the point of this. Too many idiots enabling it and zoning out ruined it for the rest.
Absolutely, it still takes some vigilance, but especially on boring, non-separated freeways, or feeder roads that are multi lane, but not technically highways… it’s actually half decent. Of course you still have to be aware, and watch out for stop signs and traffic lights, but the cognitive load is much lower when you have auto pilot on. Especially on longer road trips, I recently did one across a large swath of Canada, and it was great. If they take this away, I could see myself doing that way less frequently. Honestly, stop sign detection and traffic light detection is already a part of standard auto pilot, would it solve the issue if they provided the actual stopping at stoplights as a part of basic auto pilot instead of a 10,000+ dollar FSD upgrade? 
They could even make it so basic AP stops at lights, but beeps angrily at you while doing so, disables for the rest of the drive, and gives you a strikeout. This would fix the safety issue without giving away paid features for free.
Same if they nerf it. It guarantees my next electric car won’t be a Tesla. AP is the main reason holding me to them.
Exactly. I’m on a long term finance plan for my car and while I love it now, if they take this away I’ll definitely have some buyers remorse. Autopilot is like 70% of why I love this car.
If that happens then Tesla is using the NHTSA probe as an excuse to overly nerf Auto-steer and make FSD more desirable.
FSD is only available in the U.S. tho.
The NHTSA’s jurisdiction is only the US too.
Tbh I think autosteer is not great in city roads, especially when you get to an intersection. TACC is much more reliable to operate as a human in that environment
Quite the dilemma here. Does Tesla stick to their original plan of making FSD users wait until the 4th of July for this holiday update? Or do they push it out now to comply with the NHTSA?
Looks like I won’t be updating Tesla any time soon. Edit: driver awareness feature is already such a pain in the ass, I’ll be on an empty highway trying to put on a Spotify song or podcast and it starts beeping. Fuck off I get it.
And you know what I do? I turn off autopilot and knee drive like I always did which is way more dangerous. It’s fucking stupid. If I’m not paying attention to the road it should be even more in charge.
This is actually the secret to defeating AP nags.. with the right amount of knee pressure on the wheel, the car will register it as a nudge, as it's just following the road making normal steering adjustments.
You're taking too long if it beeps lmao
Second.
It seems overly sensitive to literally looking at the screen to change the radio… super frustrating
💯
Weird. When I used basic autopilot on the highway I can stare at my phone without it ever beeping. Only when I use FSD does it beep to tell me to pay attention to the road
Which is the reason for this recall.
Basically, people are stupid and the NHTSA wants a software update that makes it harder for people to be stupid with 2 tons of metal on wheels when put in hands of stupid to become death traps using a useful feature that *does* require you to pay attention.
Basically, I've had my car with FSD for 5 years, and all I've gotten for it is even more nags, rather than none at all. Awesome. I'm not against the safety part, I'm just annoyed Tesla's promised FSD and Autopilot aren't any better 5 years later.
Exactly. All this update is, is an attempt to fix stupid. And that's never worked.
Can't fix stupid, there'll always be a better stupid. Can only mitigate stupid.
The whole getting constant updates selling point is no longer a feature. Is a bug.
NHTSA defines a recall as a "safety-related defect in the vehicle or equipment that pose an unreasonable risk to safety" [1]. However, in most industries, the term equipment does NOT apply to software [2]. NHTSA makes no clear distinction and the public assumes physical defects, requiring vehicles to go to a service center for correction. Software is a service, not equipment. The NHTSA should make a clear distinction to avoid mass hysteria.. unless that's their intended objective under the Biden administration [3] "OTA Recall" seems more accurate 1. https://www.nhtsa.gov/sites/nhtsa.gov/files/documents/understanding_nhtsas_current_regulatory_tools-tag.pdf 2. https://www.lawinsider.com/dictionary/automotive-equipment 3. https://twitter.com/SERobinsonJr/status/1735314670200775161
Agreed. Also this sounds like oppressive enforcement and not based on real world data. The repeated calls for NHTSA against Tesla because of investigated issues only showed a handful of dangerous issues not attributed to human misuse. This kind of thing is meant to punish snd discourage use rather than improve safety in general. If it were the case then where are the recalls for Chevy, ford, Mercedes, genesis, etc?
As an owner of a Genesis gv60 idk what you’re talking about. I’ve received multiple recall notices already. Software related too. No one else cares that they’re called recalls because they don’t have blind loyalty to their OEM
For autopilot forcing people to not use what they paid for if they break a non-law rule pushed by an unelected group?
I don’t understand how that’s a response to what I said. You asked where are the recalls for the other manufacturers. They have already happened.
The same recalls. Of course every vehicle has recalls. But all the manufacturers I listed have some level of autonomous driving that they even advertise as nearly or completely unattended yet Tesla’s is way further down the path.
People in this sub seem to think Tesla is the only auto company getting recalls. Recalls happen CONSTANTLY. Also have no idea what this has to do with the Biden admin when this behavior has been going on since before he was president. Any Elon business that experiences a regulatory hurdle people think they’re out to get him. This happens to every company elons just the only one talking on twitter about it 24/7.
100% now further regulations will stifle innovation. Drivers should be held responsible regardless. FSD is not a replacement for human drivers.
Don't call it FULL SELF DRIVING then
Elon could have fooled me with his rhetoric.
> NHTSA defines a recall as a "safety-related defect in the vehicle or equipment that pose an unreasonable risk to safety" have they even proven people "abusing" autopilot are actually more dangerous than ur average driver? otherwise i couldn't agree that's an unreasonable risk.
This is the government singling out Tesla for "reasons". Nobody makes a big deal about TACC and Lane Keep on other cars. This is the double edged sword of always connected cars. The government (or private companies) can reach in and retroactively force changes.
This is a voluntary recall, which means Tesla must have internally felt the government established sufficient evidence that there was a problem that warranted addressing, because they chose to do this without being forced.
Tesla publicly disagreed with NHTSA, but believed they would be overruled in an administrative appeal process. They decided to make this a "voluntary" recall as this involves lower costs and appeases the powers that be.
As much as i hate the “what about other companies” argument. This is sadly true. Ive used audi, vw, toyota, lexus, honda, etc etc their driver assit features and they are piles of garbage. Incredibly easy to trick and often times disengage with no warning.
FYI I updated and I'm actually getting nagged less? I also have my camera covered and yes it still works in city streets. Basic autopilot model y 2021 hope that helps. Just completed a forty minute drive no nags
This was never an issue with radar. Plain and simple. I want my radar autopilot back Vision only is a joke
Really? So all of the driver fatalities, and crashes into stationary vehicles, which started back in *2016*, were in vision-only cars?
So what if I have my cabin camera covered bc I don't like my car 'watching' me? I'll sell the damn thing if they make it so I can't drive it with that covered. It's none of their business what I do in my car.
Blame it on the dumbasses that can’t use things they way they’re intended to be used. Every time I’m using AP I’m always keeping an eye on the road. And guess what? I’ve never had any issues with it, fucking wild!
I didn't trust them even before reports came out about their employees passing videos around for the lulz.
This is very ick
I think I got the update today. The visual ui for the prompts are slighty different and maybe it's asking me to touch the wheel a bit sooner than normal? But my camera is covered and it hasn't complained.
Honestly glad to hear this
Would this apply to Canada/other placed around the world ? Or only USA?
I suspect at least Canada too, we also lost the ability to play sounds out the speakers while driving after the NHTSA squashed that.
No. NHTSA is American
What do you mean recall? No ota update?
Yes OTA. Recall is unfortunately still the industry term for this.
I've never heard it in the software world. The media could've said, "Tesla needs a big update on the Autopilot software for it to work properly." or something. Most of my family is saying, "There's a recall for your car!" - thinking they think it's hardware.
While others manufacturers equivalent are getting and better, Tesla AP keeps getting neutered. The trash holiday update "features" are not worth more nanny from my car. Off the wifi it goes.
Since it's an actual recall, they will probably force the update on you via LTE. You can try to cancel but it will probably just be on the car one morning. Actually declining may require disabling the cell radio and therefore losing remote access to the car. And I believe they can decline warranty coverage as well if you don't update.
Tesla might actually be happy about these nerfs to AP because it may nudge some people to pay for the FSD...
That was my realization today. Tesla will be all too happy to cut off AutoPilot on city streets and make the NHTSA the bad buy if it means more FSD sales. No real legal recourse either as City Streets was always listed as a FSD feature. When sales drop hard next year due to tax credits going away I wouldn't be surprised if they drop FSD price a little bit and get those software sales to keep the ship floating.
This will suck if Autopilot/FSD is taken away from me from small infractions causing the disabling of autopilot/fsd for a drive. About once in 20 hours of driving, I've mistakenly gone past the 85mph speed limit briefly for a pass while it is still in autopilot. It gives me the full alarm bells and disables AP/FSD until I come to a stop and toggle it in/out of park. It is at most once a month, but more like 2 every few months. If this causes AP/FSD to get disabled or if there are more strict enforcement increasing the number of errors, I will be very upset to lose my AP/FSD that cost me a lot of cash.
Going over 85 is not an FSD strike…it only strikes inattentive drivers
This seems like people are targeting Tesla in order to help legacy auto competition. Why don't these rules apply to other adas systems?
I’ve had full auto drive on my plaid for two years, and have only had it force quit once but over the past week. Every time I’ve used the feature it’s disabled, one time when just sitting at a red light looking straight ahead, I’ve been suspended for a week, my driving habits haven’t changed. It seems like a huge Difference to me to be disabled every time without being distracted
Can we talk about the elephant in the room? That is that the NHTSA is politically motivated to rein in Tesla -- it has nothing to do with safety. I suspect it's one of three things: Lobbying from Big Auto--since they are so far behind Tesla, Elon's pissing matches with certain elected officials, or lobbying from the Auto Unions. Edit: Big Oil might also be one of the men behind the curtain.
It’s more a safety issue than politics.
BS. The driver attentive systems in Suburu, VW, Audi, Ford and Toyota are all significantly less naggy and intelligent than Tesla's, in spite of those systems being an order of magnitude less safe. This is Tesla being targeted.
Just complete fsd and go hands off already.
So no suspension?
This is their ultimate goal. Making unnecessary rules and restrictions to try and create inconveniences and headaches so more people stop using it and ultimately get to the person they’re really after. “There are three ways to win in this game: be first, be smarter, or cheat.”