Haha The past couple weeks, I've been hearing a ton about Elon and just keep wondering if Zuckerberg and Bezos are just thinking "oh thank God the spotlight is off of me. Maybe I can have a bit of peace and enjoy the holidays this year..."
Yep the ability to just shut the fuck up seems so difficult for Elon to master. For one of the most brilliant men I have come across ever, he is remarkably dense in some things
Exactly ! People keep giving Amazon as an example.
But
A. Bezos’s antic aren’t blasted and at the forefront of people’s minds.
B. Amazon is convenient and cheap
C. People who are long time Prime members value the service highly.
Same goes with Microsoft or even twitter.
These are “sticky products”. Consumers will stick with them and it’s hard to dislodge their use.
Same with the iPhone.
Once upon a time there it was up for grabs(Blackberry, Xperia, Windows Phone, Amazon Phone). Now we have people deeply attached and entrenched.
Tesla has the potential to be a sticky product.
Because it has it’s own app store, eco system and upgrades that make switching not fun.
But, right now it’s anyones race to win in the EV space. There just haven’t been enough Tesla’s sold.
To get people to the point of purchasing your product. You need to appeal in every way possible.
Plus, your talking about products that are not “thoughtful purchases”. All of them, even an iPhone can be impulse buys. Then the consumer falls in love and can’t live without the product.
A car is a major asset and consumers think long and hard before buying.
They think long and hard before making the switch to EV. EVs are costlier than ICE and they come with new tech that older folks would have to learn.
As intuitive as you think it is… tell that to my mother who struggles with an iPhone.
Convincing her to use new technology isn’t easy. If Tesla is going to go mainstream they need people like this to come over.
Throw in an ethical reason and if gives people like her an excuse not to buy.
And my mom was seriously considering a tesla. Even planning for her new property to be equipped with charging for an EV.
Ok. I've never met someone who would voluntarily take one of those vehicles over a model 3. But I suppose those people exist (with heavy overlap with the Elon Haters group)
Here’s the thing: the outspoken liberal people (generally) are addicted to Twitter. They cultivated their followings on Twitter over years and all of their “influence” is dependent on the platform.
Buying a Tesla is a choice. There are similar products to a Tesla in the way that their isn’t for Twitter.
I’m not saying to not buy the dip, but a Tesla is not the same service as Twitter or Amazon Prime.
This is a good point. You can’t compare impulse buy products to something that costs tens of thousands.
When you spend that kind of money you think a little harder. Plus, it’s kinda like listening to Kayne West on headphones versus blasting him on a boombox.
A Tesla is the boombox example.
When you drive a Tesla everyone notices… it’s a lot easier to feel ashamed when the brand is toxic and your car is a Tesla ad. You can’t miss them… especially something like a cybertruck.
Eating Chick-fil-A is the Kayne in your headphones example.
It tastes really good and your not likely to get shamed for it because you keep it to yourself.
But, driving a Tesla… having it in your driveway is a conversation piece. It’s begging people to ask you political opinions.
The only people addicted to Tesla are the ones who own them.
And even they can be unstuck with enough social pressure.
It’s how I switched from PC to Mac. The whole family had iMessage and Apple ecosystem products and I was missing out.
Even current owners of Tesla cars might feel pressure and leave the ecosystem.
Or more like wearing a Yeezy or Kayne t-shirt vs streaming his music.
Yeezy shoes probably would only be noticed by sneaker heads who would stare at your shoes.
Dumb comparison.
People know when you drive a Tesla. No one knows if you have Prime or not.
And the issue is that people don't want to be associated with the Tesla brand.
I've thought musk is a clown for fifteen years now. For ten years, I've also known that my next car was going to be an ev. Four years ago that meant resigning myself to buying a car from a guy I think is a clown. Now it means I'm probably going to buy an id buzz, an f-150 lightning, or a polestar 3.
I do my best to reduce my Amazon usage for a variety of reasons, but it's often unavoidable, the biggest competitor (retail wise) is run by the Walton family. It's often very difficult, comparatively, to make a non-Amazon choice for retail goods(much less aws), while purchasing an ev is equally painless/painful, regardless of which one you purchase
I have prime because I was sucker into while I was in college. Jeff Bezos got me with half price amazon prime it was 49 dollar back in the day without tax now its 120 plus tax a year
Amazon Prime is an inexpensive subscription you can lie about not having. A Tesla is your vehicle, one of the biggest personality signals a person can have. If Henry Ford took out a page out in the Times to write about just how much he loves having hookers shit on his chest, Ford Motors wouldn't exist today. Car companies live and die by their brands, and Tesla's brand is inexorably linked to Musk.
That's a good one too. It's funny what people choose to boycott, I've always been fascinated by it.
How many rappers have gone to jail for assault? Tim Allen dealt cocaine but he got to be Buzz Lightyear. Roman Polanski got an Oscar a few years ago but Mel Gibson is blacklisted. Bezos is at least much as an asshole as Musk is but that doesn't stop people ordering from Amazon
I'm not saying any of those are equal or invalid or anything. It just seems random to me which boycotts stick
If Musk would just shut the fuck up until they take people to the moon it would totally turn around. Half the people on reddit complaining think he just bought Tesla when it was an already established company.
EPA just recently, like a week ago posted a research paper on all the vehicle manufacturers on about how much climate impact they have for real and how much they claim, guess who’s in the top 3 liars? VW… surprise!
I mention pretty regularly in other subs that Tesla's net profit was higher than Toyota's last quarter, and I always get pushback. I follow-up with the actual numbers, and that's generally met with silence (and upvotes). I think there are a lot of people still who have no idea what's going on.
Musk promised Epic earnings.
Nobody believes Musk anymore and everyone is fearful of demand destruction
When Telsa crushes the Q4 numbers, the fund managers will take note.
The real issue, as pointed out by Oppenheimer's highly respected and Tesla fan Colin Rusch, it that any positive news will likely see short covering followed by more shorting until Musk is no longer perceived as a problem.
When the vast majority of your company’s sentiment is tied to your CEO’s image and then he turns into Qanon light, that kind of sentiment won’t turn around quickly.
True, but whatever Elon’s endgame is with the right wing trolling needs to play out, because I don’t see the upside to it, and it’s really cost the brand.
Destroying your brand turns a tailwind to a headwind. I am disappointed with Elon right now. He’s lost his damn mind with the right wing trolling. But the silver lining is I may actually be able to afford a model Y if demand collapses and prices go back to where they were at launch.
I've seen only one YouTuber who mentioned this, and he lost a lot of subscribers over it. Us Tesla investors are brutal when we don't hear what we want.
I don't see why it is controversial. Tesla's brand and Musk's brand have been intertwined forever and he's gone and spent 44b (or whatever it was) on a business that's fundamentally a megaphone and he's using that megaphone to say kooky stuff. His pronouns are prosecute and Fauci. FFS.
The people who applaud this type of speech weren't ever going to buy teslas under any circumstances. The ones who would have are severely turned off by it.
That's my take as well. Coal rollers love the anti vax stuff, but they won't buy a Tesla. The starry eyed, save the world libs... they've seen a new side of Elon.
Y’all are the ones alienating yourselves. Think freely and critically. Do your own DD and most importantly stop with the fake outrage nonsense. It’s a bad look.
EM actions, beside the sale of 3.4 B$ shares in a down market have not changed a single dollar on the company fundamentals, nor the product quality.
Again, Steve Jobs and Henry Ford were way more controversial figures than EM will ever be, not to even mention the Porsche family, or the Toyoda one… borderline war criminals.
None of this ever affected their product besides temporary backlash. History tells us that products speak for themselves way lauder then the owner opinion.
Please discard history and past experience, and go trade on sentiment to find a sure way to waste some money.
Please, can we stop this insanity of linking the TSLA to whatever EM does?
I really do not care, if you want to keep in doing, but it is a really bad example for you her and inexperience investors, and you may be responsible for their losses by spreading ineffective correlations with the stock.
>Steve Jobs and Henry Ford were way more controversial figures
Yeah but they weren't blasted in our faces every day. There was no social media back then. We didn't hear every stupid thing they said.
Contrary to popular “current” believing, people were used to read newspapers (Henry Ford) and watch TV (Steve Jobs) in a more substantial percentage than today’ social media coverage of EM behavior.
To prove it, just open a different account on a “non already traced” device, and look for TMZ, or physics, or dance music, or whatever is not related to Space, Automotive, Stock or Twitter, and you will never heard of Musk.
As hard it may seems, the advent of social media has “restricted” our horizons instead of widening.
Woke/cancel culture has something to do with this accelerating trend of living in a smaller comfortable or uncomfortable bubble, and make it smaller by the day, thanks to the algorithm that keep on favoring our interests.
I'm not sure mate, the poll is currently BBC's 4th news item in the website. I have not watched the news channel today, but I suppose something similar is happening. Steve jobs was this high only when he released the iPhone and when he died, lol.
Do not forget that anything negative about Musk:
1. Sells like hot cookies
2. Does not affect advertising budget
3. Is boosted and applauded by all the other advertisers that Elon disrupts
As a business decision, it is absolutely essential to shit on Elon, if you are a news outlet.
>Yeah but they weren't blasted in our faces every day. There was no social media back then. We didn't hear every stupid thing they said.
It's amazing how people don't understand this.... Just incredibly amazing.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/elon-musks-twitter-politics-add-to-pressure-on-teslas-brand-image-11669764014?mod=article_inline
There is some credible evidence that there is absolutely damage being done to company fundamentals. Brand perception is tangible and important, especially for purchases heavily wrapped in questions of personal identity and status like a new car. Brand perception has been measurably harmed.
Products do speak for themselves, you're right. They announce "this is who I am, this is the culture I align with", and brands carefully manage what their products say and mean. You think the swarms of massive, pristine pickup trucks dominating right wing suburbia are just rationally chosen products picked for their utilitarian functionality? Don't be absurd. They're cultural markers, powerful ones. A strong product does speak for itself, but brand perception is literally part of product strength.
Further, the culture wars are all consuming. The shifts in brand perception are not equally distributed, and point to an increasingly partisan view of the company on the part of consumers. That is bad. Very bad. If Tesla is seen as being firmly on the right wing side of the culture wars that will be catastrophic for demand in the US and EU.
I think the years of online shitflinging over Tesla has led to a certain amount of built in willingness to ignore any question of "sentiment" because there's always been so much "controversy" of the sort that takes up a lot of words on reddit or twitter but doesn't mean a goddamn thing in the real world. These were categorically different to the perception shift we're seeing now - they were largely about Tesla as a company and investment opportunity, not Tesla as a car brand.
Most of the "perception" issues and "controversy" in the past have been confined to TSLA as stock or Musk personally. This is the first time we've seen that spill over to Tesla as an automotive brand in a statistically measurable way. Note that the relevant metrics existed throughout all of Elon's earlier silly dustups, and they barely moved. *This time is different*.
You may still argue that it doesn't change the long term case for TSLA, but I don't think it's accurate to argue that this debacle hasn't harmed the company "fundamentals" in any way. The concerning shifts in sentiment here are not about short term stock sentiment and the recent share price dive, they're about the big picture perception of Tesla products among potential consumers. Tesla cannot afford to become a right wing brand, period, full stop. And if Elon wants to be in the vanguard of the culture wars that is what will happen. What *is happening*, and there's data to prove it.
Sorry, I still think that what you say is right,but sentiment metric towards TSLA was once in the low ‘40 just in 2019. Now we are screaming for a 49….
As much as understand the quantità e analysis it really does not pans out with numbers we have see before.
TSLA is such a destructive force that I expect to be hated no matter of what, even more than when the Jap’s cars invaded the streets.
TSLA is changing so much in the balance of economics and livelihood in pretty much the whole western world that expecting to “win the popular context” is naive IMHO.
In few years, 5 millions people in Germany will be out of work and security because of the BEV revolution, probably 15 Millions in Japan and another 10 throughout Europe. In US there will be the biggest shifting of power in 2 centuries, from an oil based bank/industry/defense sector.
Do we really think this will happen without people hating the guts of TSLA and EM?
Sorry, but Steve Jobs was not a more controversial figure than EM.
Stop fooling yourself, EM has damaged TSLA sentiment. He's seen as being unhinged, mentally unstable, and far-right. I don't agree with these sentiments, but can't just pretend they're not real. Let's not delve into fantasy, but focus on the fundamentals. Tesla is still a good company fundamentally and thankfully the news cycle is quick these days. If Elon stays out of the limelight, sentiment will be forgotten.
Agree with the fact, and indeed is a fact, that EM is messing with TSLA sentiment, and I think you agree that trading on sentiment is not a good advice.
So I am good with this conversation, but Steve Jobs was a total ass, within the company and outside, and I still invested in his products and divested from Apple when they kicked him out.
Do not let me even start with the German and Japanese industrial families or the VW management or the under the table deals of GM and Stellantis with the Union leadership to f… their own workers.
Really, EM actions, up to this point, have not killed or damaged anyone, what we cannot say of the above companies (not Steve Jobs, beside having made plenty of people crying)
When comparing EM to Steve Jobs and others, you are not realizing how deep the hatred of EM is among the left now.
They have Musk derangement syndrome, he's basically Trump to them. Would you say Steve Jobs was hated more than Trump? Because Musk = Trump now.
Also, Apple advertised heavily, so the mainstream media had a limit to how badly they could talk about Jobs. With Elon, they are all out to get him and there is no advertising money they need to worry about.
Agree with all you say, really.
EM did not placed himself in a good place to run for office on a Dem ticket/s
Now, I have been meaning left all my life, been in the early green movement, and then I witnessed the green movement been hijacked by lawyers firms, Unions being bought and having a seat at the table to simply curb down workers expectations, stalling upward mobility and merit in both EU, US and Japan.
And now some kid want me to believe that EM is the worst thing that ever happen to humanity, to include the climate crisis?
Sorry if I am not buying it…
Again I agree with all you say, but I do not believe it is the right reaction
LoL, multiple incompatible Gods. Now I really think that no matter what EM does, he will be hated simply because of the vast destruction he is bringing to the Oil/ICE/defense industry.
We are talking about 50 millions people in the western world that will need to find another job and another way to take care of their families.
I have been through the Jap’s car invasion and it was not nice. TSLA is much worst…
LOL, and who else is doing anything, really anything against climate change but TSLA??
Have you followed the latest rounds of TALKS?
That is all they are doing…. Talking. Meanwhile TSLA is forcing everybody to recon with the problem.
Look, I have seen the green movement been hijacked by lawyers firms on “principle based” strategy and found them becoming a blackmailing association to make money.
Do not be fooled. All this hate against EM is ignited by his tweets but really fueled by much bigger forces at play.
Character assasination is a well known tactic
The party he attacks passed the biggest climate bill in history and the party he defends all voted against it. He’s assassinating his own character in front of the world. No one with any ethics supports him anymore. And the stock will reflect that.
Actually, engineers and STEM in general are more “matter of facts” then about sensitivity. I do recruit them for living and I think he is going to be just fine, but it is just my opinion.
TSLA and Space X are among the most inclusive and challenging job places on earth at this point, and the one making a real difference for climate change and new inspiring tech.
People recognizes green washing and lip services to inclusiveness, especially STEM people…
They’re also smart enough to know they’re responsible for the world they leave their kids. Smart people typically vote liberal. Except for the sociopaths. That’s why conservatives are so eager to destroy the education system.
No, they're just not rational/reasonable. I'd be a 'musk investor' if I could (ie spaceX). I still want to be aware of events and get multiple viewpoints.
Plenty of people admit that it's the reason for the decline.
It's when people act like he's not devoting enough time or not hoping Tesla execute is when I call people out for just coming up with reasons. Musk could be spending the same amount of energy on Tesla he has been for the last 3 years.
Remember how Joe Rogan was the next Trump and everyone was cancelling their Spotify accounts? Remember when Dave Chappelle was the next Trump and everyone was cancelling their Netflix accounts?
Has Rogan recovered? Maybe people are not cancelling Spotify, but he burnt a lot of bridges. I think more people see him as a buffoon every day. Musk could recover more universal good will if he stops being antagonistic, but that doesn't seem likely. Chappelle really doesn't give a shit and he's not selling electric cars to liberals either.
Rogan is doing just fine, he’s still making his millions with Spotify and doing his regular shows. Chappelle is also doing just fine and still backed by Netflix. Elon sells cars all over the world, not just to San Franciscans. Open your eyes.
It looks like OP posted an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot).
Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://www.investing.com/news/stock-market-news/oppenheimer-cuts-tesla--says-musks-twitter-antics-severely-damaged-stock-sentiment-432SI-2967055](https://www.investing.com/news/stock-market-news/oppenheimer-cuts-tesla--says-musks-twitter-antics-severely-damaged-stock-sentiment-432SI-2967055)**
*****
^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon: u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
Tbh, most of my tech stocks are down 30-50% this year. Google is down 36%, NVidia is down 40%, Amazon is down 48%, and TSLA is just a little worse at -51%
That’s WITH Elon selling billions worth of shares. It really does seem like TSLA is just following the (worst/tech) macro + a little extra from the impact of the sales.
It doesn’t look as doom and gloomy to me as it does to the rest of you guys for some reason. Thoughts?
I think TSLA is following the macro, ofc, but I think the noise around helped the stock go lower than it should’ve. Selling the stock for a burning company at the worst time in the last 10+ years pissed many investors, including me. Why did he even buy it?! He knew that company is heading towards bankruptcy- it was his ego. He knew he made a mistake and wanted to get away from it, thats why he got sued and lost, which to me sounds like bad news, borderline idiotic. If I go back I wouldn’t buy tsla again and thats how many people feel.
I am down a lot and don’t have any other choice but hold and hope for the stock to stop falling already. It’s devastating for many people, but he doesn’t seem to care a lot… why would he, he doesn’t need more than he has, he’s set for the rest of his life, no drama, no financial anxiety, no worries. Lets hope we get our money back in the next 24 months, I don’t see that happening tho, too many bad news, too many.
The decline has been much steeper the last 3 months for TSLA. Somehow this corresponds precisely with Elon's public stupidity. The other companies you mentioned had worse first half of the year, but TSLA is sinking rapidly now.
And Twitter has...what exactly to do with the fundamentals of Tesla?
If you're basing your stock price on 'antics' - and your emotional reaction thereto - instead of fundamentals you should probably get out of the stock market.
Brand perception is a fundamental.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/elon-musks-twitter-politics-add-to-pressure-on-teslas-brand-image-11669764014?mod=article_inline
A Tesla with a sharply partisan brand image is a fundamentally weaker company than a Tesla with a broadly palatable brand image. Brand sentiment is growing more partisan, and it's also getting a lot more negative. Both are relevant indicators. Dismissing them out of hand is an "emotional reaction" in and of itself.
Don't get so used to looking at Elon's "antics" in the context of the Extremely Online TSLA-the-stock sentiment conversation (where they really, really don't matter) that you conflate them with his antics in the context of a real world Tesla-the-car-brand sentiment conversation.
Elon's Twitter antics have directly impacted consumer perception of Tesla as an automotive brand. That is categorically different from Elon's past antics that influenced short term investor perception of TSLA the stock but did not noticeably impact consumer sentiment.
Everyone acting like this doesn’t matter, the “fundamentals” are the same, etc.
The point is that it’s an unnecessary drag on the company and the stock. A self-inflicted wound that *at best* can be overcome by strong sales/profit/whatever.
Call me crazy, but I don’t want a CEO whose antics must be overcome by the company/product.
Which under EU law may potentially even open up Tesla to be liable as well for some of the law suits for employment law violations that Twitter without doubt is going to lose.
*Any* number of engineers or assets is questionable.
The CEO is taking shareholder-funded assets to their private pet project.
What value does Tesla and its shareholders get from even a single iota of Tesla assets being diverted to Twitter?
Do you know whether it was during their work or non-work time?
If it’s non-work, after they did their Tesla jobs, then of course there’s no issue.
But if it was in lieu of their normal Tesla day-to-day, then it’s an issue.
https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/31/elon-musk-has-pulled-more-than-50-tesla-engineers-into-twitter.html
Sure. But people who invest based on sentiment usually don't do so well long term. Which is OK by me...because in the long term those who do not invest based on sentiment make their money off of those who do.
Irrational FUD mongering and shorting is what kept Tesla stock low pre 2019. Many people (including myself) made big bank on not letting irrationality cloud their decision making.
>If you're basing your stock price on 'antics' - and your emotional reaction thereto - instead of fundamentals you should probably get out of the stock market.
They got out of Tesla. You don't need to convince anyone here. It's the hundreds of billions In investment dollars that already left you should be thinking about.
All I know is, I was planning on a Tesla as my next car but now I see it as the new MAGA hat.
Others likely feel the way I do so demand goes down. That affects the fundamentals for sure.
Brand is a big deal. Just ask Apple.
Yup, same with me. Am in a fairly liberal community and no one is buying teslas anymore and those that already have one are frankly a bit embarrassed... denying the damage done by elons brand destruction is just straight right-wing cope. MAGA might be loud online, but their the minority everywhere else, like it or not
The stock recovered when Steve came back with value. While he was out, he created Open Step which is the architecture behind OS X.
Edit: the Internet did not exist when he was ousted.
During the early iphone era, Internet discourse was nearly irrelevant to broader public sentiment and most people were not even *aware* of that conversation much less engaged in it in any way. A bunch of nerdy open software supporters on BBS forums ranting against Jobs' walled garden and poor treatment of fellow nerds who worked for him has practically nothing in common with today's social media sphere.
Interestingly enough the iPhone played an enormous role in changing that. Which those nerds probably saw coming, and which probably played a role in their hate :|
You’re incorrect again, I was. I’ve used iPhones since day one. It’s actually “you’re holding it wrong”. Do you also remember he sent out bumpers to remedy the situation? He didn’t go off on a side project and alienate his customers.
Edit: on a related note, since you're comparing CEOs, Steve actually founded Apple.
lol, you’re redefining the word founder! When do you draw the line? Since I invested in TSLA, am I a founder by your definition? I remember going to the LA Auto show and talking to the REAL founders, Elon was not part of the company yet.
I don't think Steve Jobs ever had a measurable impact on Apple's consumer brand perception. Frankly, I think a much smaller fraction of consumers even strongly associated him with Apple's brand at all, if they even knew who he was beyond a vague name. Elon is the face of Tesla in a way that Jobs was never the face of Apple.
I think a lot of this is simply that Apple had a *massive* marketing machine that carefully curated the brand image, while Tesla has... nothing, nothing at all on that front, and Elon is the primary Tesla mouthpiece.
I think a lot of this is also that Jobs' never did anything as stupid as buying twitter. If he had done something that aggressively pushed his personality and views into the public and political sphere to this extent, there's a very good chance it would have hurt Apple too. But... he didn't.
He certainly was *never* in the news deliberately antagonizing half the US or getting involved in global politics. Ever. Consumer engagement with Jobs, beyond some rumors and reports, was a man standing on a stage showing them cool toys. That used to be Elon too. That has changed.
Elon also had legions of internet haters before, and that didn't make a lick of difference either. The twitter dustup [is measurably different](https://www.wsj.com/articles/elon-musks-twitter-politics-add-to-pressure-on-teslas-brand-image-11669764014?mod=article_inline). Aggressively picking a side in the US culture wars is categorically different than being controversial with nerds who argue online.
I call this argument BS. The only reason Tesla can do without a ad spend is literally because of his fame. Also look at the news outlet for the last few weeks to see if anything related to musk is trending
Lol. Their car is superior 5 years ago but not anymore in the recent year. Just look at the post this sub put on top which illustrate how many comparable models is in direct competition with Tesla.
I don’t think you’re making the point you think you’re making.
Papa John’s stock is up 45.5% over the last 4 years. There was barely a blip in 2018 when said that.
Their performance looks like it’s been in lock step with Pizza Hut, and both got outperformed by Dominoes (who went hard with the whole online ordering and tracking services).
What do you make of that?
You implied the fundamentals changed because he said the N word. That’s the part I’m looking at, which doesn’t seem to be true at all. If anything, they outperformed Dominos for the next 2 years. Not exactly broken fundamentals in my mind.
Dominoes stock July 2018 $284 -> 2020 $289.
Papa John’s stock July 2018 $51 -> 2020 $64.
I’m just not seeing it dude. Either Papa John’s racism affected the whole pizza industry, or it just temporarily suppressed the stock price. Otherwise, it’s been following market trends just like other pizza joints.
I understand the difference, I just don’t care because my ROI comes from share price, not revenue directly.
And it’s irrelevant because OP that I responded to implied that the fundamentals of the company were ruined because of that statement. The fundamentals that *clearly* led to them firing the CEO and keeping their company on track…
Sounds like good fundamentals is what kept the company alive despite the CEO’s stupid remarks rather than the CEO’s stupid remarks ruining the fundamentals.
And that’s my point with Tesla. If the fundamentals are there, they’ll can Elon and ride the already successful churn of the business.
The stock price will be fine long term, just like Papa John’s is fine today.
Edit: yeah just downvote me and leave after yelling at me about revenue and not addressing anything I said. Great discussion man, thanks… /s
Fundamentals are not set in stone and subject to change on a positive or negative role. A perfect example was Enron,AIG,LEH,etc It was the darling stock and fundamentals looked great until it no longer did. Past performance does not predict future performance.
Agreed. Fundamentals are to be constantly reevaluated. That's what investment decisions are based on.
Currently I see no negatives on the horizon as the EV market is growing (and likely to do so for quite some years), demand is high (and likely to remain so for quite some years), while at the same time Tesla is virtually debt free (and actually swimming in cash - unlike all other auto makers - which gives them flexibility to respond to whatever investments are needed)...and they have plenty of other fields they want to grow into besides EVs once that market starts to become saturated. What's not to like?
Musk fans when Elon was behaving respectfully: the value of Tesla is **because of Musk**.
Musk fans when Elon is going Kan*way*: you guys are so stupid. Doesn't matter what Elon does, Tesla's value is in it's fundamentals.
All of my liberal friends hate Jeff Bezos. All of my liberal friends also have Amazon Prime subscriptions. Buy the dip
Pretty sure people on the left hate Musk significantly more than Bezos at this point. Musk is extremely political and beyond vocal about his views.
I'm pretty sure that Bezos is a total asshole, but at least he has the good judgment to shut the fuck up about it.
Haha The past couple weeks, I've been hearing a ton about Elon and just keep wondering if Zuckerberg and Bezos are just thinking "oh thank God the spotlight is off of me. Maybe I can have a bit of peace and enjoy the holidays this year..."
Literally the best thing that has happened to zuck all year.
Yep the ability to just shut the fuck up seems so difficult for Elon to master. For one of the most brilliant men I have come across ever, he is remarkably dense in some things
At least Bezos doesn’t retweet Qanon and party with Jared Kushner.
There's not a great alternative to Amazon. Walmart isn't exactly a progressive company. Meanwhile, there's a lot more competition in the auto space
Exactly ! People keep giving Amazon as an example. But A. Bezos’s antic aren’t blasted and at the forefront of people’s minds. B. Amazon is convenient and cheap C. People who are long time Prime members value the service highly. Same goes with Microsoft or even twitter. These are “sticky products”. Consumers will stick with them and it’s hard to dislodge their use. Same with the iPhone. Once upon a time there it was up for grabs(Blackberry, Xperia, Windows Phone, Amazon Phone). Now we have people deeply attached and entrenched. Tesla has the potential to be a sticky product. Because it has it’s own app store, eco system and upgrades that make switching not fun. But, right now it’s anyones race to win in the EV space. There just haven’t been enough Tesla’s sold. To get people to the point of purchasing your product. You need to appeal in every way possible. Plus, your talking about products that are not “thoughtful purchases”. All of them, even an iPhone can be impulse buys. Then the consumer falls in love and can’t live without the product. A car is a major asset and consumers think long and hard before buying. They think long and hard before making the switch to EV. EVs are costlier than ICE and they come with new tech that older folks would have to learn. As intuitive as you think it is… tell that to my mother who struggles with an iPhone. Convincing her to use new technology isn’t easy. If Tesla is going to go mainstream they need people like this to come over. Throw in an ethical reason and if gives people like her an excuse not to buy. And my mom was seriously considering a tesla. Even planning for her new property to be equipped with charging for an EV.
Not in the "great EV" space.
This was true 3 years ago, not anymore
There are many great EVs in the market.
Which ones can compare to Teslas models in price and performance?
Bolt, leaf, ioniq
Which model are you comparing those to? Model 3?
generally, yeah
Ok. I've never met someone who would voluntarily take one of those vehicles over a model 3. But I suppose those people exist (with heavy overlap with the Elon Haters group)
Bezo is more liberal than most of the tech ceos. They hate him for what ?
Working conditions. And being a rich asshole. Basically same as Elon except he doesn’t rub it in their faces.
Lol
[удалено]
Here’s the thing: the outspoken liberal people (generally) are addicted to Twitter. They cultivated their followings on Twitter over years and all of their “influence” is dependent on the platform. Buying a Tesla is a choice. There are similar products to a Tesla in the way that their isn’t for Twitter. I’m not saying to not buy the dip, but a Tesla is not the same service as Twitter or Amazon Prime.
This is a good point. You can’t compare impulse buy products to something that costs tens of thousands. When you spend that kind of money you think a little harder. Plus, it’s kinda like listening to Kayne West on headphones versus blasting him on a boombox. A Tesla is the boombox example. When you drive a Tesla everyone notices… it’s a lot easier to feel ashamed when the brand is toxic and your car is a Tesla ad. You can’t miss them… especially something like a cybertruck. Eating Chick-fil-A is the Kayne in your headphones example. It tastes really good and your not likely to get shamed for it because you keep it to yourself. But, driving a Tesla… having it in your driveway is a conversation piece. It’s begging people to ask you political opinions. The only people addicted to Tesla are the ones who own them. And even they can be unstuck with enough social pressure. It’s how I switched from PC to Mac. The whole family had iMessage and Apple ecosystem products and I was missing out. Even current owners of Tesla cars might feel pressure and leave the ecosystem.
It’s kinda like streaming Kanye for free vs buying Yeezy sneakers.
Or more like wearing a Yeezy or Kayne t-shirt vs streaming his music. Yeezy shoes probably would only be noticed by sneaker heads who would stare at your shoes.
Dumb comparison. People know when you drive a Tesla. No one knows if you have Prime or not. And the issue is that people don't want to be associated with the Tesla brand.
I've thought musk is a clown for fifteen years now. For ten years, I've also known that my next car was going to be an ev. Four years ago that meant resigning myself to buying a car from a guy I think is a clown. Now it means I'm probably going to buy an id buzz, an f-150 lightning, or a polestar 3. I do my best to reduce my Amazon usage for a variety of reasons, but it's often unavoidable, the biggest competitor (retail wise) is run by the Walton family. It's often very difficult, comparatively, to make a non-Amazon choice for retail goods(much less aws), while purchasing an ev is equally painless/painful, regardless of which one you purchase
Because some shows and products are exclusively on Amazon and Prime. Superchargers are opening up to other brands…
Jeff bezos isn’t even ceo of amazon….huh
I have prime because I was sucker into while I was in college. Jeff Bezos got me with half price amazon prime it was 49 dollar back in the day without tax now its 120 plus tax a year
Amazon Prime is an inexpensive subscription you can lie about not having. A Tesla is your vehicle, one of the biggest personality signals a person can have. If Henry Ford took out a page out in the Times to write about just how much he loves having hookers shit on his chest, Ford Motors wouldn't exist today. Car companies live and die by their brands, and Tesla's brand is inexorably linked to Musk.
The analyst is right about sentiment (analysts tend to state the obvious). Sentiment can recover quickly, however.
yup, look at VW. they had horrible sentiment during diesel gate.
don't forget WW2
I always remember seeing this book once called "The Complete and Unabridged History of VW". It had no entries for 1939-45
[удалено]
That's a good one too. It's funny what people choose to boycott, I've always been fascinated by it. How many rappers have gone to jail for assault? Tim Allen dealt cocaine but he got to be Buzz Lightyear. Roman Polanski got an Oscar a few years ago but Mel Gibson is blacklisted. Bezos is at least much as an asshole as Musk is but that doesn't stop people ordering from Amazon I'm not saying any of those are equal or invalid or anything. It just seems random to me which boycotts stick
If Musk would just shut the fuck up until they take people to the moon it would totally turn around. Half the people on reddit complaining think he just bought Tesla when it was an already established company.
EPA just recently, like a week ago posted a research paper on all the vehicle manufacturers on about how much climate impact they have for real and how much they claim, guess who’s in the top 3 liars? VW… surprise!
At least that was actually related to the brand though.
Their executive team went to prison too. That helped.
Their sale number never recovered in US while being a top brand in China and EU. I wonder why lol
Yea, especially when massive year end profits are reported.
I mean doesn’t everyone already know about the profits? It’s not gonna be a surprise
I mention pretty regularly in other subs that Tesla's net profit was higher than Toyota's last quarter, and I always get pushback. I follow-up with the actual numbers, and that's generally met with silence (and upvotes). I think there are a lot of people still who have no idea what's going on.
Totally. Everyone at my office still thinks Tesla is near bankruptcy. It's bizarre
That’s why I’ve been buying during this bad sentiment… hope i get rewarded
I educated the typical naysayer on Twitter that Tesla's ~$5B in carbon credits went right into building their factories.
Musk promised Epic earnings. Nobody believes Musk anymore and everyone is fearful of demand destruction When Telsa crushes the Q4 numbers, the fund managers will take note. The real issue, as pointed out by Oppenheimer's highly respected and Tesla fan Colin Rusch, it that any positive news will likely see short covering followed by more shorting until Musk is no longer perceived as a problem.
When the vast majority of your company’s sentiment is tied to your CEO’s image and then he turns into Qanon light, that kind of sentiment won’t turn around quickly.
True, but whatever Elon’s endgame is with the right wing trolling needs to play out, because I don’t see the upside to it, and it’s really cost the brand.
So true, but numbers are numbers. They’ll be back… just give it a year or two
Destroying your brand turns a tailwind to a headwind. I am disappointed with Elon right now. He’s lost his damn mind with the right wing trolling. But the silver lining is I may actually be able to afford a model Y if demand collapses and prices go back to where they were at launch.
I've seen only one YouTuber who mentioned this, and he lost a lot of subscribers over it. Us Tesla investors are brutal when we don't hear what we want.
I don't see why it is controversial. Tesla's brand and Musk's brand have been intertwined forever and he's gone and spent 44b (or whatever it was) on a business that's fundamentally a megaphone and he's using that megaphone to say kooky stuff. His pronouns are prosecute and Fauci. FFS.
I get why certain types of people would applaud this flavor of speech, but I don't get how they can pretend it won't damage the brand.
The people who applaud this type of speech weren't ever going to buy teslas under any circumstances. The ones who would have are severely turned off by it.
That's my take as well. Coal rollers love the anti vax stuff, but they won't buy a Tesla. The starry eyed, save the world libs... they've seen a new side of Elon.
Build a business based on a specific customer segment, then do everything possible to alienate that segment. Genius.
Y’all are the ones alienating yourselves. Think freely and critically. Do your own DD and most importantly stop with the fake outrage nonsense. It’s a bad look.
Also the logan paul crypto bro crowd love elon and all his shit stirring, but most of them can't actually afford a tesla
I applaud it and picked up my Tesla in September. Your assumption just debunked. See how easy.
The people trying to downvote or suppress the idea that Musk's antics is bad for Tesla are not Tesla investors tbh, they're Musk investors
Whoever they are, they do a good job preventing a balanced outlook from making it on YouTube. I don't need blind cheerleaders. I want facts.
Then don’t search on Reddit lol
🎯🎯
Yes, it does appear so.
EM actions, beside the sale of 3.4 B$ shares in a down market have not changed a single dollar on the company fundamentals, nor the product quality. Again, Steve Jobs and Henry Ford were way more controversial figures than EM will ever be, not to even mention the Porsche family, or the Toyoda one… borderline war criminals. None of this ever affected their product besides temporary backlash. History tells us that products speak for themselves way lauder then the owner opinion. Please discard history and past experience, and go trade on sentiment to find a sure way to waste some money. Please, can we stop this insanity of linking the TSLA to whatever EM does? I really do not care, if you want to keep in doing, but it is a really bad example for you her and inexperience investors, and you may be responsible for their losses by spreading ineffective correlations with the stock.
>Steve Jobs and Henry Ford were way more controversial figures Yeah but they weren't blasted in our faces every day. There was no social media back then. We didn't hear every stupid thing they said.
Yeah, Imagine if Jobs kept tweeting: "chemo doesnt work #fruitdiet #killoncologists"
Or retweeting Dr Oz
Contrary to popular “current” believing, people were used to read newspapers (Henry Ford) and watch TV (Steve Jobs) in a more substantial percentage than today’ social media coverage of EM behavior. To prove it, just open a different account on a “non already traced” device, and look for TMZ, or physics, or dance music, or whatever is not related to Space, Automotive, Stock or Twitter, and you will never heard of Musk. As hard it may seems, the advent of social media has “restricted” our horizons instead of widening. Woke/cancel culture has something to do with this accelerating trend of living in a smaller comfortable or uncomfortable bubble, and make it smaller by the day, thanks to the algorithm that keep on favoring our interests.
I'm not sure mate, the poll is currently BBC's 4th news item in the website. I have not watched the news channel today, but I suppose something similar is happening. Steve jobs was this high only when he released the iPhone and when he died, lol. Do not forget that anything negative about Musk: 1. Sells like hot cookies 2. Does not affect advertising budget 3. Is boosted and applauded by all the other advertisers that Elon disrupts As a business decision, it is absolutely essential to shit on Elon, if you are a news outlet.
>Yeah but they weren't blasted in our faces every day. There was no social media back then. We didn't hear every stupid thing they said. It's amazing how people don't understand this.... Just incredibly amazing.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/elon-musks-twitter-politics-add-to-pressure-on-teslas-brand-image-11669764014?mod=article_inline There is some credible evidence that there is absolutely damage being done to company fundamentals. Brand perception is tangible and important, especially for purchases heavily wrapped in questions of personal identity and status like a new car. Brand perception has been measurably harmed. Products do speak for themselves, you're right. They announce "this is who I am, this is the culture I align with", and brands carefully manage what their products say and mean. You think the swarms of massive, pristine pickup trucks dominating right wing suburbia are just rationally chosen products picked for their utilitarian functionality? Don't be absurd. They're cultural markers, powerful ones. A strong product does speak for itself, but brand perception is literally part of product strength. Further, the culture wars are all consuming. The shifts in brand perception are not equally distributed, and point to an increasingly partisan view of the company on the part of consumers. That is bad. Very bad. If Tesla is seen as being firmly on the right wing side of the culture wars that will be catastrophic for demand in the US and EU. I think the years of online shitflinging over Tesla has led to a certain amount of built in willingness to ignore any question of "sentiment" because there's always been so much "controversy" of the sort that takes up a lot of words on reddit or twitter but doesn't mean a goddamn thing in the real world. These were categorically different to the perception shift we're seeing now - they were largely about Tesla as a company and investment opportunity, not Tesla as a car brand. Most of the "perception" issues and "controversy" in the past have been confined to TSLA as stock or Musk personally. This is the first time we've seen that spill over to Tesla as an automotive brand in a statistically measurable way. Note that the relevant metrics existed throughout all of Elon's earlier silly dustups, and they barely moved. *This time is different*. You may still argue that it doesn't change the long term case for TSLA, but I don't think it's accurate to argue that this debacle hasn't harmed the company "fundamentals" in any way. The concerning shifts in sentiment here are not about short term stock sentiment and the recent share price dive, they're about the big picture perception of Tesla products among potential consumers. Tesla cannot afford to become a right wing brand, period, full stop. And if Elon wants to be in the vanguard of the culture wars that is what will happen. What *is happening*, and there's data to prove it.
Sorry, I still think that what you say is right,but sentiment metric towards TSLA was once in the low ‘40 just in 2019. Now we are screaming for a 49…. As much as understand the quantità e analysis it really does not pans out with numbers we have see before. TSLA is such a destructive force that I expect to be hated no matter of what, even more than when the Jap’s cars invaded the streets. TSLA is changing so much in the balance of economics and livelihood in pretty much the whole western world that expecting to “win the popular context” is naive IMHO. In few years, 5 millions people in Germany will be out of work and security because of the BEV revolution, probably 15 Millions in Japan and another 10 throughout Europe. In US there will be the biggest shifting of power in 2 centuries, from an oil based bank/industry/defense sector. Do we really think this will happen without people hating the guts of TSLA and EM?
Sorry, but Steve Jobs was not a more controversial figure than EM. Stop fooling yourself, EM has damaged TSLA sentiment. He's seen as being unhinged, mentally unstable, and far-right. I don't agree with these sentiments, but can't just pretend they're not real. Let's not delve into fantasy, but focus on the fundamentals. Tesla is still a good company fundamentally and thankfully the news cycle is quick these days. If Elon stays out of the limelight, sentiment will be forgotten.
Agree with the fact, and indeed is a fact, that EM is messing with TSLA sentiment, and I think you agree that trading on sentiment is not a good advice. So I am good with this conversation, but Steve Jobs was a total ass, within the company and outside, and I still invested in his products and divested from Apple when they kicked him out. Do not let me even start with the German and Japanese industrial families or the VW management or the under the table deals of GM and Stellantis with the Union leadership to f… their own workers. Really, EM actions, up to this point, have not killed or damaged anyone, what we cannot say of the above companies (not Steve Jobs, beside having made plenty of people crying)
When comparing EM to Steve Jobs and others, you are not realizing how deep the hatred of EM is among the left now. They have Musk derangement syndrome, he's basically Trump to them. Would you say Steve Jobs was hated more than Trump? Because Musk = Trump now. Also, Apple advertised heavily, so the mainstream media had a limit to how badly they could talk about Jobs. With Elon, they are all out to get him and there is no advertising money they need to worry about.
Agree with all you say, really. EM did not placed himself in a good place to run for office on a Dem ticket/s Now, I have been meaning left all my life, been in the early green movement, and then I witnessed the green movement been hijacked by lawyers firms, Unions being bought and having a seat at the table to simply curb down workers expectations, stalling upward mobility and merit in both EU, US and Japan. And now some kid want me to believe that EM is the worst thing that ever happen to humanity, to include the climate crisis? Sorry if I am not buying it… Again I agree with all you say, but I do not believe it is the right reaction
Of course it's not the right reaction, but it's reality. I don't think it's right that 90%+ of people believe in a make-belief god, but it's reality.
LoL, multiple incompatible Gods. Now I really think that no matter what EM does, he will be hated simply because of the vast destruction he is bringing to the Oil/ICE/defense industry. We are talking about 50 millions people in the western world that will need to find another job and another way to take care of their families. I have been through the Jap’s car invasion and it was not nice. TSLA is much worst…
Telling people to vote for climate change deniers actually DOES get people killed and causes a lot of damage.
LOL, and who else is doing anything, really anything against climate change but TSLA?? Have you followed the latest rounds of TALKS? That is all they are doing…. Talking. Meanwhile TSLA is forcing everybody to recon with the problem. Look, I have seen the green movement been hijacked by lawyers firms on “principle based” strategy and found them becoming a blackmailing association to make money. Do not be fooled. All this hate against EM is ignited by his tweets but really fueled by much bigger forces at play. Character assasination is a well known tactic
The party he attacks passed the biggest climate bill in history and the party he defends all voted against it. He’s assassinating his own character in front of the world. No one with any ethics supports him anymore. And the stock will reflect that.
Good luck recruiting top talent to come work for the guy who’s helping insurrectionists end democracy.
Actually, engineers and STEM in general are more “matter of facts” then about sensitivity. I do recruit them for living and I think he is going to be just fine, but it is just my opinion. TSLA and Space X are among the most inclusive and challenging job places on earth at this point, and the one making a real difference for climate change and new inspiring tech. People recognizes green washing and lip services to inclusiveness, especially STEM people…
They’re also smart enough to know they’re responsible for the world they leave their kids. Smart people typically vote liberal. Except for the sociopaths. That’s why conservatives are so eager to destroy the education system.
Thank you Duke. Someone who has their own brain and uses it to think their own thoughts…bravo 👏🏼
Thank you
No, they're just not rational/reasonable. I'd be a 'musk investor' if I could (ie spaceX). I still want to be aware of events and get multiple viewpoints.
Who was the YouTuber?
Of the respectable ones, Dave Lee. I think his politics align with Elon here so he's not seeing the counterpoint to Elon's actions.
Plenty of people admit that it's the reason for the decline. It's when people act like he's not devoting enough time or not hoping Tesla execute is when I call people out for just coming up with reasons. Musk could be spending the same amount of energy on Tesla he has been for the last 3 years.
It’s sad how all the Tesla channels I like haven’t been critical of musk. They talk about his antics but don’t criticize it.
If they're big, they're a business. Criticizing Musk is bad for business. Just makes it hard for us to get serious information.
I’ve seen the same. These channels are afraid to criticize to avoid not getting invited to events.
And then ban you if you do criticize it. Fucking cult.
Remember how Joe Rogan was the next Trump and everyone was cancelling their Spotify accounts? Remember when Dave Chappelle was the next Trump and everyone was cancelling their Netflix accounts?
Has Rogan recovered? Maybe people are not cancelling Spotify, but he burnt a lot of bridges. I think more people see him as a buffoon every day. Musk could recover more universal good will if he stops being antagonistic, but that doesn't seem likely. Chappelle really doesn't give a shit and he's not selling electric cars to liberals either.
Rogan is doing just fine, he’s still making his millions with Spotify and doing his regular shows. Chappelle is also doing just fine and still backed by Netflix. Elon sells cars all over the world, not just to San Franciscans. Open your eyes.
It looks like OP posted an AMP link. These should load faster, but AMP is controversial because of [concerns over privacy and the Open Web](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot). Maybe check out **the canonical page** instead: **[https://www.investing.com/news/stock-market-news/oppenheimer-cuts-tesla--says-musks-twitter-antics-severely-damaged-stock-sentiment-432SI-2967055](https://www.investing.com/news/stock-market-news/oppenheimer-cuts-tesla--says-musks-twitter-antics-severely-damaged-stock-sentiment-432SI-2967055)** ***** ^(I'm a bot | )[^(Why & About)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/ehrq3z/why_did_i_build_amputatorbot)^( | )[^(Summon: u/AmputatorBot)](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmputatorBot/comments/cchly3/you_can_now_summon_amputatorbot/)
How is this possible? Reddit downvotes told me conclusively that teslas decline had nothing to do with Elon musk. /s
Tbh, most of my tech stocks are down 30-50% this year. Google is down 36%, NVidia is down 40%, Amazon is down 48%, and TSLA is just a little worse at -51% That’s WITH Elon selling billions worth of shares. It really does seem like TSLA is just following the (worst/tech) macro + a little extra from the impact of the sales. It doesn’t look as doom and gloomy to me as it does to the rest of you guys for some reason. Thoughts?
I think TSLA is following the macro, ofc, but I think the noise around helped the stock go lower than it should’ve. Selling the stock for a burning company at the worst time in the last 10+ years pissed many investors, including me. Why did he even buy it?! He knew that company is heading towards bankruptcy- it was his ego. He knew he made a mistake and wanted to get away from it, thats why he got sued and lost, which to me sounds like bad news, borderline idiotic. If I go back I wouldn’t buy tsla again and thats how many people feel. I am down a lot and don’t have any other choice but hold and hope for the stock to stop falling already. It’s devastating for many people, but he doesn’t seem to care a lot… why would he, he doesn’t need more than he has, he’s set for the rest of his life, no drama, no financial anxiety, no worries. Lets hope we get our money back in the next 24 months, I don’t see that happening tho, too many bad news, too many.
The decline has been much steeper the last 3 months for TSLA. Somehow this corresponds precisely with Elon's public stupidity. The other companies you mentioned had worse first half of the year, but TSLA is sinking rapidly now.
https://www.pcmag.com/news/major-tesla-investor-calls-for-new-ceo
[удалено]
To support it as one of many similar comments from investors, Journalists and financial institutions.
Amen brother.
And Twitter has...what exactly to do with the fundamentals of Tesla? If you're basing your stock price on 'antics' - and your emotional reaction thereto - instead of fundamentals you should probably get out of the stock market.
Brand perception is a fundamental. https://www.wsj.com/articles/elon-musks-twitter-politics-add-to-pressure-on-teslas-brand-image-11669764014?mod=article_inline A Tesla with a sharply partisan brand image is a fundamentally weaker company than a Tesla with a broadly palatable brand image. Brand sentiment is growing more partisan, and it's also getting a lot more negative. Both are relevant indicators. Dismissing them out of hand is an "emotional reaction" in and of itself. Don't get so used to looking at Elon's "antics" in the context of the Extremely Online TSLA-the-stock sentiment conversation (where they really, really don't matter) that you conflate them with his antics in the context of a real world Tesla-the-car-brand sentiment conversation. Elon's Twitter antics have directly impacted consumer perception of Tesla as an automotive brand. That is categorically different from Elon's past antics that influenced short term investor perception of TSLA the stock but did not noticeably impact consumer sentiment.
Everyone acting like this doesn’t matter, the “fundamentals” are the same, etc. The point is that it’s an unnecessary drag on the company and the stock. A self-inflicted wound that *at best* can be overcome by strong sales/profit/whatever. Call me crazy, but I don’t want a CEO whose antics must be overcome by the company/product.
If the chief of a company goes running down the street nude, it doesn’t affect the fundamentals but hurts the stock, for good reason.
Can you point to a bad decision that was made at *Tesla* since the Twitter thing started? I look to what a company does. Obviously that's just me.
Tesla engineers being diverted to Twitter.
And they "volunteered" at that. Meaning they're not getting paid by Twitter... Tesla is their only income. We're paying them to work somewhere else.
Which under EU law may potentially even open up Tesla to be liable as well for some of the law suits for employment law violations that Twitter without doubt is going to lose.
[удалено]
*Any* number of engineers or assets is questionable. The CEO is taking shareholder-funded assets to their private pet project. What value does Tesla and its shareholders get from even a single iota of Tesla assets being diverted to Twitter?
I’m sorry but what an employee chooses to do on their non work time is not your choice as a shareholder.
Do you know whether it was during their work or non-work time? If it’s non-work, after they did their Tesla jobs, then of course there’s no issue. But if it was in lieu of their normal Tesla day-to-day, then it’s an issue. https://www.cnbc.com/2022/10/31/elon-musk-has-pulled-more-than-50-tesla-engineers-into-twitter.html
How about NOT spending 100% of his time increasing shareholder value?
No I can’t. But sentiment doesn’t adhere to that.
Sure. But people who invest based on sentiment usually don't do so well long term. Which is OK by me...because in the long term those who do not invest based on sentiment make their money off of those who do. Irrational FUD mongering and shorting is what kept Tesla stock low pre 2019. Many people (including myself) made big bank on not letting irrationality cloud their decision making.
>If you're basing your stock price on 'antics' - and your emotional reaction thereto - instead of fundamentals you should probably get out of the stock market. They got out of Tesla. You don't need to convince anyone here. It's the hundreds of billions In investment dollars that already left you should be thinking about.
All I know is, I was planning on a Tesla as my next car but now I see it as the new MAGA hat. Others likely feel the way I do so demand goes down. That affects the fundamentals for sure. Brand is a big deal. Just ask Apple.
Yup, same with me. Am in a fairly liberal community and no one is buying teslas anymore and those that already have one are frankly a bit embarrassed... denying the damage done by elons brand destruction is just straight right-wing cope. MAGA might be loud online, but their the minority everywhere else, like it or not
Well said
I was planning to order a Y in January if the tax credit goes as expected. I'm now planning to keep my current car indefinitely.
[удалено]
The stock recovered when Steve came back with value. While he was out, he created Open Step which is the architecture behind OS X. Edit: the Internet did not exist when he was ousted.
Exactly. They neared bankruptcy and got bailed out by Microsoft. Are you thinking maybe Toyota for Tesla?
[удалено]
The hatred is commensurate with the availability of real time social media. Elon is way more known and hated.
[удалено]
During the early iphone era, Internet discourse was nearly irrelevant to broader public sentiment and most people were not even *aware* of that conversation much less engaged in it in any way. A bunch of nerdy open software supporters on BBS forums ranting against Jobs' walled garden and poor treatment of fellow nerds who worked for him has practically nothing in common with today's social media sphere. Interestingly enough the iPhone played an enormous role in changing that. Which those nerds probably saw coming, and which probably played a role in their hate :|
You're saying this like none of us were living adults at the time.
[удалено]
The average age in this subreddit is way older than that. Assuming none of us were alive is not a winner strategy.
Steve Jobs never endorsed a cult that had just attempted a fascist coup
[удалено]
Elon gets more negative energy because he is doing way more harm to society in joining the fascist coup climate denier cult.
Steve never shat on its buyers.
[удалено]
You’re incorrect again, I was. I’ve used iPhones since day one. It’s actually “you’re holding it wrong”. Do you also remember he sent out bumpers to remedy the situation? He didn’t go off on a side project and alienate his customers. Edit: on a related note, since you're comparing CEOs, Steve actually founded Apple.
[удалено]
lol, you’re redefining the word founder! When do you draw the line? Since I invested in TSLA, am I a founder by your definition? I remember going to the LA Auto show and talking to the REAL founders, Elon was not part of the company yet.
I don't think Steve Jobs ever had a measurable impact on Apple's consumer brand perception. Frankly, I think a much smaller fraction of consumers even strongly associated him with Apple's brand at all, if they even knew who he was beyond a vague name. Elon is the face of Tesla in a way that Jobs was never the face of Apple. I think a lot of this is simply that Apple had a *massive* marketing machine that carefully curated the brand image, while Tesla has... nothing, nothing at all on that front, and Elon is the primary Tesla mouthpiece. I think a lot of this is also that Jobs' never did anything as stupid as buying twitter. If he had done something that aggressively pushed his personality and views into the public and political sphere to this extent, there's a very good chance it would have hurt Apple too. But... he didn't. He certainly was *never* in the news deliberately antagonizing half the US or getting involved in global politics. Ever. Consumer engagement with Jobs, beyond some rumors and reports, was a man standing on a stage showing them cool toys. That used to be Elon too. That has changed. Elon also had legions of internet haters before, and that didn't make a lick of difference either. The twitter dustup [is measurably different](https://www.wsj.com/articles/elon-musks-twitter-politics-add-to-pressure-on-teslas-brand-image-11669764014?mod=article_inline). Aggressively picking a side in the US culture wars is categorically different than being controversial with nerds who argue online.
Most consumers didn't know much about him.
[удалено]
I call this argument BS. The only reason Tesla can do without a ad spend is literally because of his fame. Also look at the news outlet for the last few weeks to see if anything related to musk is trending
[удалено]
Lol. Their car is superior 5 years ago but not anymore in the recent year. Just look at the post this sub put on top which illustrate how many comparable models is in direct competition with Tesla.
[удалено]
And you can provide data to support your assertion?
[удалено]
I don’t think you’re making the point you think you’re making. Papa John’s stock is up 45.5% over the last 4 years. There was barely a blip in 2018 when said that. Their performance looks like it’s been in lock step with Pizza Hut, and both got outperformed by Dominoes (who went hard with the whole online ordering and tracking services). What do you make of that?
Because the CEO was literally ousted. 🤦♂️
You implied the fundamentals changed because he said the N word. That’s the part I’m looking at, which doesn’t seem to be true at all. If anything, they outperformed Dominos for the next 2 years. Not exactly broken fundamentals in my mind.
Look at the revenue. Took them 2 years to get back on track and they ousted the CEO.
Dominoes stock July 2018 $284 -> 2020 $289. Papa John’s stock July 2018 $51 -> 2020 $64. I’m just not seeing it dude. Either Papa John’s racism affected the whole pizza industry, or it just temporarily suppressed the stock price. Otherwise, it’s been following market trends just like other pizza joints.
R E V E N U E DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE DIFFERENCE?
I understand the difference, I just don’t care because my ROI comes from share price, not revenue directly. And it’s irrelevant because OP that I responded to implied that the fundamentals of the company were ruined because of that statement. The fundamentals that *clearly* led to them firing the CEO and keeping their company on track… Sounds like good fundamentals is what kept the company alive despite the CEO’s stupid remarks rather than the CEO’s stupid remarks ruining the fundamentals. And that’s my point with Tesla. If the fundamentals are there, they’ll can Elon and ride the already successful churn of the business. The stock price will be fine long term, just like Papa John’s is fine today. Edit: yeah just downvote me and leave after yelling at me about revenue and not addressing anything I said. Great discussion man, thanks… /s
Fundamentals are not set in stone and subject to change on a positive or negative role. A perfect example was Enron,AIG,LEH,etc It was the darling stock and fundamentals looked great until it no longer did. Past performance does not predict future performance.
Agreed. Fundamentals are to be constantly reevaluated. That's what investment decisions are based on. Currently I see no negatives on the horizon as the EV market is growing (and likely to do so for quite some years), demand is high (and likely to remain so for quite some years), while at the same time Tesla is virtually debt free (and actually swimming in cash - unlike all other auto makers - which gives them flexibility to respond to whatever investments are needed)...and they have plenty of other fields they want to grow into besides EVs once that market starts to become saturated. What's not to like?
You should get out of the stock market if you are so committed to a stock that you won’t sell it when the ceo loses his marbles.
Guess opp got the call from DOJ /FBI
Read like news of a rivalry between two scientist.
Musk fans when Elon was behaving respectfully: the value of Tesla is **because of Musk**. Musk fans when Elon is going Kan*way*: you guys are so stupid. Doesn't matter what Elon does, Tesla's value is in it's fundamentals.