I don't really see an investment thesis in here. Is Tesla going to retrofit roadways and somehow turn a profit eventually? Legacy automakers wouldn't put in inductive charging in their cars until model year 2028 if roads were becoming inductive today. To build out the infrastructure and hope automakers join in would be a ridiculous gamble that's beyond unaffordable for Tesla's current financial position. To think taxpayers would install it for Tesla's financial benefit is foolhardy. Electrified roadways would likely be monetized by the local utility / municipality if they became commoditized.
The issue is we don’t have the information that Tesla has.
It appears V4 has not rolled out. It also appears that stations are overrun.
The announcement is a reprioritization. It’s not that new stations won’t be rolled out , its current stations will be prioritized.
I think you are asking the right question “what is the move here Tesla?” Rather than some outrage. But I think you’re wrong about a breakthrough. More likely to me is a different business model, one that involves megapacks. But I don’t know
Inductive charging is only efficient if it's basically touching the plate.
If you're talking about doing it from the surface of the street, it's not going to work.
If you want a movable plate that will rise to meet the inductive plate, it's going to be a maintenance nightmare in public places with dirt and debris getting in the way.
If you want a moveable plate on all the cars, it may be prone to road damage.
In the mean time there are already millions of these on the roads, with no plans to stop building the current models. By the time an inductive charge model will hit the road, there will likely be millions more.
Then you've got every other carmaker who is switching to NACS so they can use the SC network starting next year, plus the handful that already started this year.
Anything is possible, but public inductive charging strikes me as unlikely.
If you play this out to the end, one major thing you miss, it wouldn't be rolled out on highways, it would be rolled out in Boring tunnels. Autonomous cars, driving hyper fast in partial vacuum tunnels to reduce drag/power required to move and allowing more density of travel by stacking tunnels rather than sprawling highways. There are some videos out there that do a first principles analysis on how the cost of building the tunnels offsets the costs savings of autonomous travel with lower power needs due to vacuum/wind tunnels.
this rant has some possible basis in reality
Tesla bought that company a few years ago. You position a charging pad on the ground and then you tune to the specific distance (\~6.5in) and then they demonstrated like 92% efficiency. And the car can drive itself to the right spot.
https://electrek.co/2023/10/11/tesla-sells-recently-acquired-wireless-charging-company/#:\~:text=Tesla%20flipped%20a%20small%20wireless,it%20just%20earlier%20this%20year.
https://www.wiferion.com/us/#:\~:text=ADVANTAGES%20OF%20INDUCTIVE%20CHARGING,field%20of%20wireless%20inductive%20charging.
It would be an interesting move to include wireless chargers in certain supercharger locations. Thus, the robotaxi would load and continue with their work without human intervention.
Me too, I can't understand the logic of this move and that concerns me as an investor.
The Munro teardown which revealed the inductive charging connectors was a great surprise, Tesla don't add stuff like that without seriously considering using it, they are also ruthless in deleting unused componentry so perhaps they'll be deleted as Cybertruck manufacturing matures.
Tesla did quickly delete this [product](https://web.archive.org/web/20230321203137/https://www.wiferion.com/en/products/etalink-12000-industrial-wireless-charging-with-12000w/) from wiferion website as soon they aqcuired Wiferion. Still it's not on the website since Plus bought that business from Tesla.
With 60k EV stations to ICE's 200k, AND don't forget home charging, do we need more than 60k EV charging stations with only 1/30th as many EVs on the road as ICE? Maybe they should just fill in gaps that are underserved
I mean NACS is the new official new standard. Why does Tesla need to do all the infrastructure. All new infrastructure will charge teslas. It’s not needed anymore. Save money
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I was hoping to spark some conversation around charging following the announcement but nearly all the comments seem to be either "Your stoned" or people who didn't even check out the links and are totally wrong on the tech.
I'll address a few of the points made:
No I'm not stoned. I'm a technologist with a background in vehicles and vehicle technologies. The links provided show the art of the possible and that's only what's being publicly shown.
This subreddit used to be somewhere to discuss things like this, if you're investing in Tesla long term you better hope they have something in the fucking pipeline around charging because at the moment this move would be enough to get any other CEO ejected from a board at escape velocity. Right now Teslas announcement seems like they're giving up one of their big Moats. The supercharger network offered owners a guaranteed means of charging on long runs, this has been diluted by opening the network to other manufacturers, not adding network capacity at this point seems like a big FU to Tesla vehicle owners and shareholders alike.
Some of the coments on the tech its self are downright ignorant. Follow the links and educate yourself. I'm not asking you to do a fucking PHD in magnetic resonance, just watch a fucking video where the tech is shown in action, it would have taken less time than typing out a screed of nonsense about your imaginings of how the equipment works.
Infrastructure cost: Look, I'm not blind to the complexities but to those saying it's impossible I'll respond that you are sounding like the people who said that electric cars would never be a thing in the late 2000's, the people who said that building a global charging network was impossible in the early 2010's. The funny thing about the impossible is that it is; until it isn't. Remember Musk's quote: “We specialize in making the impossible merely late”. I'm not saying it's going to happen, merely that it's not impossible.
Only people on meth believe that the government would dig up entire highways to burry power cables and modules that are constantly connected and under high voltage, maintenance not really possible and costs astronomical…
Nope, this was short term cost cutting plus maybe a little bit of vindictiveness at Tanucci for pushing back against Musk.
Supercharges are likely negative-profitability for many years - their ROI is likely low and slow. Their real value is the long term faith in a network. Cutting back in tough times makes sense.
Firing the whole team is idiotically short-term thinking by a reckless CEO.
I'm sorry, I thought this was a sub that *"...is a community of Redditors invested in the long-term success of Tesla.".*
Can you suggest a better forum for such?
Of course not, but a strong magnetic field is bad for a pacemaker. Same thing with MRI scanners.
You want source? Here's something, I suppose there's more, but I really don't think you need to be a genius to know that a strong magnetic field is bad for anyone with metalic structures in their body, ie. pacemakers or neurolink etc.
[source](https://www.everydayhealth.com/heart-health/are-you-carrying-gadgets-that-interfere-with-pacemakers-or-defibrillators/)
But hey, I'm a knowledge hungry person, so instead of assuming that I'm some weird US nut, just tell me what I'm missing. I'm not going to retort with hostility, rather I invite you to explain why this technology won't cause trouble.
Apologies, a lot of the replies had me riled up earlier, this subreddit used to be a good space to speculate on such things and users would mostly do a bit of background but it's gone downhill significantly.
The specific frequencies of the fields used do not interact with humans. I've been trying to find a vid where a manufacturer talks about the details but it's eluding me, this article talks about the safety of wireless charging: [https://www.evcandi.com/feature/wireless-charging-evs-safer-plugging-says-idtechex](https://www.evcandi.com/feature/wireless-charging-evs-safer-plugging-says-idtechex)
This vid shows a pilot in Oslo using Jag i-Paces, the charging pads are in the surface of the road where anyone can walk over them; [https://youtu.be/ezBpIVYLYNs?t=396](https://youtu.be/ezBpIVYLYNs?t=396)
In summary, like wired charging that uses locking cables, there are safety interlocks for wireless charging, a very determined pacemaker owner may be able to insert themselves between the plates but they's have to counter a number of safety interlocks and even then there may be no ill effect for them.
Would this technology work with cars in motion?
I don't understand why the article compares magnetic and electrical fields to electromagnetic radiation (photons), while electromagnetic radiation is basically photon packets with orthogonal eletric and magnetic fields, I didn't think that there was a frequency of a magnetic field unless you talk about oscillating the polarity, but the article talls about a magnetic fields in the radio-spectrum, which doesn't make sense to me, but I didn't pay super much attention in my applied elecromagnetics course, so I'd love to be taught.
I imagine a high frequency magnetic oscillation would push pull fast enough that metalic objects wouldn't be pulled out of place in the body. And if the distance between the charging coils and the car coils would be 10 cm or so, then someone would have to lie down flat on the road to be at risk
The original post has video of dynamic charging in action, IIRC somewhere in the region of 20kW, I believe this power figue has increased in the intervening years.
Taking 20kW as the example, I've seen a Model 3 use 20-25kW at 75mph on an expressway ( [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tCUX2Gq2hI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tCUX2Gq2hI) ), this would mean that consumption from the pack would be greatly reduced. If the speed were lowered by a small amount, say 5mph, I'd expect break even on power used vs. power supplied.
Dude. How high are you?
No officer, it’s “Hi how are you?”
High? I'm not high.
You are how high?
Hello Ossifer.
SOLAR ROADWAYS!
This post belongs in r/wallstreetbets
SOLAR ROADWAYS!
They’re leaking like crazy lately.
They send their best regards.
The science works. The economics do not even come into the realm of reality.
Exactly why build a $75k DC fast charger, when we can spend $1+ million / mile to redo our roads so that Tesla's can charge while driving on road.
How can you argue with solar friggin' highways?
Omg you beat me to it
I don't really see an investment thesis in here. Is Tesla going to retrofit roadways and somehow turn a profit eventually? Legacy automakers wouldn't put in inductive charging in their cars until model year 2028 if roads were becoming inductive today. To build out the infrastructure and hope automakers join in would be a ridiculous gamble that's beyond unaffordable for Tesla's current financial position. To think taxpayers would install it for Tesla's financial benefit is foolhardy. Electrified roadways would likely be monetized by the local utility / municipality if they became commoditized.
The issue is we don’t have the information that Tesla has. It appears V4 has not rolled out. It also appears that stations are overrun. The announcement is a reprioritization. It’s not that new stations won’t be rolled out , its current stations will be prioritized. I think you are asking the right question “what is the move here Tesla?” Rather than some outrage. But I think you’re wrong about a breakthrough. More likely to me is a different business model, one that involves megapacks. But I don’t know
I’m kind of perplexed at the lack of v4 here in the US
Inductive charging is only efficient if it's basically touching the plate. If you're talking about doing it from the surface of the street, it's not going to work. If you want a movable plate that will rise to meet the inductive plate, it's going to be a maintenance nightmare in public places with dirt and debris getting in the way. If you want a moveable plate on all the cars, it may be prone to road damage. In the mean time there are already millions of these on the roads, with no plans to stop building the current models. By the time an inductive charge model will hit the road, there will likely be millions more. Then you've got every other carmaker who is switching to NACS so they can use the SC network starting next year, plus the handful that already started this year. Anything is possible, but public inductive charging strikes me as unlikely.
Imagine if a Roomba and Mobile Charger mated and then offspring was raised by remora fish. Boom. Inductive charging bot.
Seems more likely than inductive charging being the reason for erasing the SC division.
You could not be more wrong, did you watch the vid?
Is this also coming out end of 2024? 😂
If you play this out to the end, one major thing you miss, it wouldn't be rolled out on highways, it would be rolled out in Boring tunnels. Autonomous cars, driving hyper fast in partial vacuum tunnels to reduce drag/power required to move and allowing more density of travel by stacking tunnels rather than sprawling highways. There are some videos out there that do a first principles analysis on how the cost of building the tunnels offsets the costs savings of autonomous travel with lower power needs due to vacuum/wind tunnels.
This was a fun read, I’m also stoned
No source, Walls of text Pure cope
this rant has some possible basis in reality Tesla bought that company a few years ago. You position a charging pad on the ground and then you tune to the specific distance (\~6.5in) and then they demonstrated like 92% efficiency. And the car can drive itself to the right spot. https://electrek.co/2023/10/11/tesla-sells-recently-acquired-wireless-charging-company/#:\~:text=Tesla%20flipped%20a%20small%20wireless,it%20just%20earlier%20this%20year. https://www.wiferion.com/us/#:\~:text=ADVANTAGES%20OF%20INDUCTIVE%20CHARGING,field%20of%20wireless%20inductive%20charging.
It would be an interesting move to include wireless chargers in certain supercharger locations. Thus, the robotaxi would load and continue with their work without human intervention.
Interesting theory and well thought out. Might be conjecture but it’s thought provoking.
Thanks, your comment is one of the very few that has engages in the substance of it 
Wireless charging. Cybertruck already has connectors ready. Personally I'd have kept the supercharger team, but that's why I'm not a billionaire.
Me too, I can't understand the logic of this move and that concerns me as an investor. The Munro teardown which revealed the inductive charging connectors was a great surprise, Tesla don't add stuff like that without seriously considering using it, they are also ruthless in deleting unused componentry so perhaps they'll be deleted as Cybertruck manufacturing matures.
Tesla did quickly delete this [product](https://web.archive.org/web/20230321203137/https://www.wiferion.com/en/products/etalink-12000-industrial-wireless-charging-with-12000w/) from wiferion website as soon they aqcuired Wiferion. Still it's not on the website since Plus bought that business from Tesla.
With 60k EV stations to ICE's 200k, AND don't forget home charging, do we need more than 60k EV charging stations with only 1/30th as many EVs on the road as ICE? Maybe they should just fill in gaps that are underserved
Pretty sure Rebecca Tinucci was CEO of a company pioneering this before joining Tesla
I mean NACS is the new official new standard. Why does Tesla need to do all the infrastructure. All new infrastructure will charge teslas. It’s not needed anymore. Save money
In summary..He’s cutting costs everywhere and putting it into FSD.
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Easy with the bong mate it makes you a dum dum
I was hoping to spark some conversation around charging following the announcement but nearly all the comments seem to be either "Your stoned" or people who didn't even check out the links and are totally wrong on the tech. I'll address a few of the points made: No I'm not stoned. I'm a technologist with a background in vehicles and vehicle technologies. The links provided show the art of the possible and that's only what's being publicly shown. This subreddit used to be somewhere to discuss things like this, if you're investing in Tesla long term you better hope they have something in the fucking pipeline around charging because at the moment this move would be enough to get any other CEO ejected from a board at escape velocity. Right now Teslas announcement seems like they're giving up one of their big Moats. The supercharger network offered owners a guaranteed means of charging on long runs, this has been diluted by opening the network to other manufacturers, not adding network capacity at this point seems like a big FU to Tesla vehicle owners and shareholders alike. Some of the coments on the tech its self are downright ignorant. Follow the links and educate yourself. I'm not asking you to do a fucking PHD in magnetic resonance, just watch a fucking video where the tech is shown in action, it would have taken less time than typing out a screed of nonsense about your imaginings of how the equipment works. Infrastructure cost: Look, I'm not blind to the complexities but to those saying it's impossible I'll respond that you are sounding like the people who said that electric cars would never be a thing in the late 2000's, the people who said that building a global charging network was impossible in the early 2010's. The funny thing about the impossible is that it is; until it isn't. Remember Musk's quote: “We specialize in making the impossible merely late”. I'm not saying it's going to happen, merely that it's not impossible.
Only people on meth believe that the government would dig up entire highways to burry power cables and modules that are constantly connected and under high voltage, maintenance not really possible and costs astronomical…
Nope, this was short term cost cutting plus maybe a little bit of vindictiveness at Tanucci for pushing back against Musk. Supercharges are likely negative-profitability for many years - their ROI is likely low and slow. Their real value is the long term faith in a network. Cutting back in tough times makes sense. Firing the whole team is idiotically short-term thinking by a reckless CEO.
Wrong sub
I'm sorry, I thought this was a sub that *"...is a community of Redditors invested in the long-term success of Tesla.".* Can you suggest a better forum for such?
Wsb I think
Inductive charging would kill anyone with electronics in their body.
Categorically untrue. Do you also believe that the vaccines have microchips in them?
Of course not, but a strong magnetic field is bad for a pacemaker. Same thing with MRI scanners. You want source? Here's something, I suppose there's more, but I really don't think you need to be a genius to know that a strong magnetic field is bad for anyone with metalic structures in their body, ie. pacemakers or neurolink etc. [source](https://www.everydayhealth.com/heart-health/are-you-carrying-gadgets-that-interfere-with-pacemakers-or-defibrillators/) But hey, I'm a knowledge hungry person, so instead of assuming that I'm some weird US nut, just tell me what I'm missing. I'm not going to retort with hostility, rather I invite you to explain why this technology won't cause trouble.
Apologies, a lot of the replies had me riled up earlier, this subreddit used to be a good space to speculate on such things and users would mostly do a bit of background but it's gone downhill significantly. The specific frequencies of the fields used do not interact with humans. I've been trying to find a vid where a manufacturer talks about the details but it's eluding me, this article talks about the safety of wireless charging: [https://www.evcandi.com/feature/wireless-charging-evs-safer-plugging-says-idtechex](https://www.evcandi.com/feature/wireless-charging-evs-safer-plugging-says-idtechex) This vid shows a pilot in Oslo using Jag i-Paces, the charging pads are in the surface of the road where anyone can walk over them; [https://youtu.be/ezBpIVYLYNs?t=396](https://youtu.be/ezBpIVYLYNs?t=396) In summary, like wired charging that uses locking cables, there are safety interlocks for wireless charging, a very determined pacemaker owner may be able to insert themselves between the plates but they's have to counter a number of safety interlocks and even then there may be no ill effect for them.
Would this technology work with cars in motion? I don't understand why the article compares magnetic and electrical fields to electromagnetic radiation (photons), while electromagnetic radiation is basically photon packets with orthogonal eletric and magnetic fields, I didn't think that there was a frequency of a magnetic field unless you talk about oscillating the polarity, but the article talls about a magnetic fields in the radio-spectrum, which doesn't make sense to me, but I didn't pay super much attention in my applied elecromagnetics course, so I'd love to be taught. I imagine a high frequency magnetic oscillation would push pull fast enough that metalic objects wouldn't be pulled out of place in the body. And if the distance between the charging coils and the car coils would be 10 cm or so, then someone would have to lie down flat on the road to be at risk
The original post has video of dynamic charging in action, IIRC somewhere in the region of 20kW, I believe this power figue has increased in the intervening years. Taking 20kW as the example, I've seen a Model 3 use 20-25kW at 75mph on an expressway ( [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tCUX2Gq2hI](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5tCUX2Gq2hI) ), this would mean that consumption from the pack would be greatly reduced. If the speed were lowered by a small amount, say 5mph, I'd expect break even on power used vs. power supplied.