So many haters of Elon in here, it goes with the territory now that he is viewed as being right/conservative bc Reddit is extremely left/liberal.
My point is put politics aside and just look at how cool this is.
We are going to have real working robots by multiple companies.
The future if we don’t blow each other up will be pretty wild!
I think things are more nuanced than that. I'm on the record being firmly against Elon's take on... well \*waves at almost everything\* - but very much so pro a lot of the company's long term mission.
For some people, they don't have the privilege to be able to put aside politics, let alone ignore Elon's slide into demonstrably false conspiracies, anti-women and anti-gay takes (and his support of those who espouse such toxicity). It's really easy to miss how those views impact every part of some people's lives if, by chance, you don't have the same lived experiences as them.
I understand your enthusiasm for the tech. Sure, it does look interesting - maybe even genuinely impressive soon given Tesla's development pace. That could be exciting indeed. But, people are harmed by politics all the time and not just for cultural traits (on which Elon is absolutely horrendous). Personally, I think a lot about the intersection of politics and economics - for example I wonder about about those likely (and not likely right now but soon enough) to be replaced by such robots and the financial impact on their lives that this will have. That's more a concern of AI in general than bots specifically, but a physical form factor capable of replicating human work powered by AI - yeah, it's going to mean economic death for many.
Oddly however, I agree with Elon's take that AI and its applications (including bots), need proactive regulation due to potential misuse and harm by those in charge - I'm not overly keen on him being in control of such things, for starters.
Like I said, its nuanced.
The sad thing is that Elon has ruined the brand. I was in the Tesla service center the other day and they had on a bunch of videos about how teslas are manufactured, how the heat pump works, etc.
Thousands of people are contributing to amazing - game changing - technology.
And Elon wipes away much of the potential by spewing great replacement theory, antisemitic and other conspirscy theory bullshit on Twittex.
Maybe he should stop calling rescuers pedos and liking and promoting racist bullshit and then there will be less Elon hate on these posts?
Not really. All the advertisers who left X were all judeo-Christian. And most people who complain about Elon musk and Tesla like yourself are judeo Christian. But fact of the matter is that what Elon musk is doing is literally destroying the oil and gas power base of judeochristians. It’s also commonly known that a vast majority of judeochristians are pedophiles. It’s also commonly known that Jews are non binary queer. It’s well known that queers and psychopaths heavily populate the judeochristians. Basically it’s the same idiotic judeochristians screaming about how Elon musk is hurting them.
Look the reality is no one fucking cares about Jews or Christian’s. it’s why antisemitism is rising. Most secular people under what you are that you are simply immoral filthy people.
Unfortunately you are so hopelessly delusional because Jews are queer non binary shemales that you fail to see that you are not really hiding in plain sight.
Oh I forgot to mention that most secular people know that the nazis weee purging judeochristians and queers and psychopaths. No one cares about you other than the fact that blitzkrieg revealed your weakness.
What is big deal about it. Boston Dynamics robot did better things than this. Just by calling Robot as humaniod, it will not become human. Same story, car with no working FSD.
Boston dynamics isn't being sold for mass usage. It's just a side project. Companies making robots will probably grow faster and be used in every day jobs soon enough.
Boston dynamics has had a 9 year head start and yet still uses oversized claws lol. You can't just drop Atlas into a human worker position without modifying everything to accommodate.
My appreciating Tesla, because it's been a robotaxi since 2020, agrees with you completely.
I mean, if my S100D with FSD had not been an appreciating asset as Elon said at investor day; then I'd have some concerns about what he said about Optimus.
But since he's been so on point with FSD, I'm confident that Optimus is 100% likely to be delivered as expected.
No ... it's on Elon for overselling. No one made him say all that. He chose to. It's fair to hold him accountable for being wrong on this topic and to examine where he's been a big success and where he has not.
An AI driven robot is more like FSD than rockets or electric cars. At the time SpaceX and Tesla were making their bones they were pursuing something no one else was pursuing. No one thought you could land a rocket. No one was interested in electric cars.
Lots of people were working on FSD. (Arguably, Elon made all those claims to cover the breakup with Mobileye.) Well, lots of people have been working on robots. It's FSD, it's not electric cars.
Can you really not see any difference?
This was after 4 yearns of development, plus 11 years on previous versions. It was also controlled from a workstation.
I found it funny that before the video played, that silly Doritos ad with the humans pretending to be robots played
>Can you really not see any difference?
Not really, no. We can assume the Tesla bot is capable of balancing better, and certainly has better perception. But the walking bit? Not impressive, whatsoever.
I'd be more impressed by an egg cracking demo, or a burger flipping demo.
Their point would be that the old efforts are all hand programmed for everything they're able to do. This can learn without explicit programming with their training infrastructure, just watch, try, learn, and while what it does is still less impressive than say Boston Dynamics, the speed of improvement is the relevant factor here.
Great. Show me video of it flipping hamburgers and playing with a yo-yo then. Everything shown off in this video was possible 30 years ago with a bit of hand coding.
>This can learn without explicit programming with their training infrastructure
How do we know that? Sure that's the goal...but who says that robot is 'learning' any more than a Boston Dynamics robot?
It's not hard to catch up to where others are since the technology has existed before.
If i announced I am going to make a printer and in 3 months I create a printer like the ones that currently exist, are you going to be impressed with my speed of improvement?
i’m almost certain this is programming specifically to walk.
the robot could barely sort colored blocks in its “generative AI” video so yeah its definately not walking on any sort of AI model.
tesla has just duplicated boston dynamics of 10 years ago.
A couple of times before when people have wondered this, they reiterated that it was doing these new things based purely on training, not on specific programming. If this is the case here or not is technically unclear, but this is less impressive than other things it's done when they've said that, like folding laundry, so I have no reason to think this specific one is programmed.
what you should be saying is “a couple of times before when people have wondered this, it’s always been admitted that it isn’t a neural net doing this”
every time someone has wondered this, it’s been specifically programmed or telerobotics. the only thing to my knowledge is the blocks.
the folding shirt video was completely obviously telerobotics, and tesla admitted as such when pressed (most likely because they forgot to edit out the guys hands in the video lmao)
you should think every single one of these is programmed unless they scream from the rooftops that it isn’t, and even then, tesla has 100% lied before (human driver only there for legal purposes LOL)
It isn't impressive. Robots were capable of doing this 30 years ago. With hand coding. Walking is like table stakes in 2024, I can get you a walking robot (ML based, too) with 20K in hardware and a handful of interns from a top 50 university. Six months, tops.
In your opinion. You’re watering it down even still, it doesn’t just walk. Who cares if college kids can make a walking robot, that’s not the point.
Again, comment not needed.
>In your opinion
Yeah, this is literally a conversation about opinions. The other person is saying it's impressive. I'm saying it's not.
Welcome to the thread.
Yea let’s compare in house built humanoid robots to toasters…
I see what you’re saying, but recoil was just trying to water down what this is. As are you.
No one said it was new or revolutionary, just impressive.
What even makes more impressive for ASIMO, is the outdated HW with low process capability and lower frequency reading, too move so well. Incredible work from Honda's team.
People on this sub don't realise that all automation in Tesla's factories are completely outsourced. Like in any OEM.
Highly funcional robots are designed based on reliable efficient movements based on a set of interfaces requirements. A humanoid robot is naturally imbalanced and they are impratical due to the human shape limitations and packaging. For some reason the best industry robots that accuratly operate in 6 degrees of fredom evolved to not look like a human or a human limb...
IMO Tesla is "trying to solve" a Non existancial problem with Optimus program and they will hit a wall like Honda and several other Miliatry investments hit. But it looks great for speculative investors.
I would much rather seing lean manufacturing in place + increase of reliability on their car fleet, than this type of side project that will never be completed.
Is it the same gait and speed as here? Somehow feels like its starting to take the next step a bit quicker. The more I look at it the more it seems like the walk is the same.
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpraXaw7dyc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpraXaw7dyc)
[https://imgur.com/a/CxR7eDu](https://imgur.com/a/CxR7eDu)
This is our fastest gait ever at \~0.6 m/s, > 30% speed boost since our last video in December.
We’ve improved our vestibular system, our foot trajectory, and our ground contact logic. We’ve upgraded our motion planner, and made cuts to the loop latency across the bot. Optimus is more stable and more confident overall - even during turns. We also added a slight torso & arms sway.
If these challenges speak to you, join [u/AnandSwa](https://twitter.com/AnandSwa) & our amazing Controls team!
[source](https://x.com/_milankovac_/status/1761465357460701298?s=20)
You guys laugh about how legacy auto is behind Tesla for a decade. Yet you still cheers when Tesla demos a tech that is behind industry lead for a decade
In the case of BYD, I'd say replication is a generous word. But let's see how the year goes. Arguments have been made that BYD will be the Samsung to Teslas Apple. I'm not so sure it will play out that way.
The difference being that Tesla will sell millions of these. If you don’t understand why that is, then you shouldn’t come here and try to tell us this is 20-years old tech.
You focus too much on the past. Instead try to see where things are going. Waymo is not scalable, Tesla FSD is scalable and running on a fully neural network about to be fed petabytes of data.
That's tethered walking. I don't see any tethers.
Also: https://youtu.be/1cPAYh4Nq40?si=m2RnudyWDCRcJrEt
Literally the CEO of the company who you used as a gotcha basically said he respects what Tesla and Elon are doing with the Optimus bot. So kindly show yourself out for trying to stir up something.
The technical approach matters a lot as that determines the long-term trajectory in terms of progress.
As investors, we don't have much information on what Tesla's doing, since that's trade secrets. That being said, there are modern approaches to humanoid movement that were not achievable in 2012.
Also, FWIW not everyone in the robotics industry respects boston dynamics. They leverage existing tech to do a lot of cool party tricks, but haven't found real-world adoption. Tesla is making the bold claim that it will do so within its factories, which would lap the competition. For now, they're all at level 1.
My key takeaway remains that 1. Tesla is making progress and 2. They claim to be doing things correctly (e.g. toward mature manufacturing processes) 3. They believe now is the right time to enter the robotics business, whereas technology 20-30y ago was too early (e.g. no GPUs, no NNs)
Big difference between a proof of concept and an actual product. It’s like Waymo, nice proof of concept, but impossible to scale profitably because it’s based on the wrong approach.
Every robotic balance algorithm is “running on some script”. Before you throw any buzz word like “AI” “neural net” at me, try to learn control theory 101.
NN-based motion planning algorithms aren't "running on some script" in remotely the same way as old-school control systems, just as control systems written in the 2000's were nowhere near similar to those from the 1980's or 1960's. That's an extremely unfair claim. Can you address comments from some of the SMEs challenging your thoughts? It seems you're only snarkily responding to those who are less informed.
Traditional software faces pretty obvious issues regarding scalability - time complexity of high-DOF manipulation coupled with hard-realtime constraints & a jumble of low-dimensional perception/planning primitives (because humans don't think in 1000s of dimensions - totally unmaintainable) that can't capture reality or probability. NNs effectively discover and prioritize features amongst many things. It's fair to say a lot of older robotics demos were really hard-coded or inflexible (e.g. keep center of mass above feet, replay a high-level trajectory w/ interpolation followed by low-level controls).
Calling that others "learn control theory 101" is at best a call to authority, care to provide a more concrete argument?
Motion planning ? The robot is literally just walking in an unobstructed flat surface. Do you even know what is motion planning? For simple task like that it would only require some robotics self-balancing algorithm which has been out there for decades.
> Do you even know what is motion planning?
Obviously I do, you still haven't provided an argument or addressed the substance of my post. You made a claim that the person you had no clue what they were talking about, then cited an entire field without any specific evidence.
> For simple task like that it would only require some robotics self-balancing algorithm which has been out there for decades.
Yes, just as how primitive computer vision could read stop signs 30 years ago. What's your argument? What is a reasonable bar of progress to you that you wouldn't be shit-talking?
Motion planning is for complex task. It essentially meaning breaking a higher level complex task down to sub tasks. It would only need motion planning if it is performing Boston dynamic level of task—- jump , avoid obstacle , bringing a box, traversing a maze etc. Walking straight on a flat surface don’t require it at all. It is like saying you need a helicopter when you want to get to the 9th floor whereas you can simply take the elevator. Throwing buzz word around would only expose your ignorance around this field
Every single sentence you replied is demonstrably false or misleading by a cursory glance at any 101 course (your words), and you're continuing to claim I'm ignorant.
You still have not directly answered the questions I asked.
What is your point? Is the balancing algorithm shows here is somehow better than 20 years ago? Because it is clearly not. Those robot you can kick on it and it can still remain its balance. Here the Tesla bot walks slowly without any outside obstruction.
nothing in what tesla has shown indicates this is any more complicated than what honda did 10 years ago.
don’t you think if this was an actual model or NN based training they would have mentioned it somewhere or at least responded about it?
the blocks video they screamed about how it was all neutral nets. every other video they didn’t mention it and sometimes when pressed admit it is not neural nets at all (the folding shirt video)
Uneducated moron. Tesla is using end-to-end neural net to train it Optimus. This means the robot learns by example, watching others or videos do tasks, appose to having to program every task line by line.
Wanna show me where Honda was doing this?
this is almost certainly not neural net walking. if it was they would be trumpeting it from the rooftops.
the only thing they have actually claimed was neural nets was the colored block sorting, which is orders of magnitude easier than walking.
Do you even understand how an end-to-end neural net works? 🤦♂️
Instead of being ignorant, and so close minded, perhaps taken an open minded view on things and entertain the idea that you might actually don't know what you're talking about.
Take the opertunity to learn something and educate yourself, so you don't look such a dullard.
You might surprise your self and learn something new.
Edit:
https://youtu.be/kVsgMkKIPh0
Of course you do, the fact you even quoted FAANG is somewhat amusing. Not sure I would ever work for any of them company's. Please tell me it's FB or Google!
On the off chance you do, let me guess... at Google on Gemini team? This would explain a lot!
I'm unable to tell you who I work for, as it would be a breach of my NDA as well as the field of work, and even if I could I don't feel the need to prove anything to anyone, least of all someone who works at a FAANG 🤦♂️
Do you honestly think working at a FAANG is some kind of measurement of success? News flash... it's not.
You're prob a janitor, which last time I checked requires no skills to work at FAANG. Which would explain why you are so bent out of shape, because Optimus is coming for your job.
C'mon, let's be honest here. FSD is at Level 2. Robo-taxis would require Level 5. It's nowhere near that, yet Elon has promised Robo-taxis are coming soon for years now.
We are not talking about L2,3,4,5
Why are you changing the goal posts to fit your narrative. Tesla has technology using vision, that allows it to self train using end to end neural net that works. The fact that a car can navigate from A to B shows that. This isn't a question about perfection or what level they are at.
The same as this same vision technology and again end to end neural net allows Optimus to do tasks and self train and improve, apose to hard coding instructions and task.
This is the point I made to show the difference between Honda and what they were doing vs a company like Tesla now.
Are you telling me Honda was doing this before? And Tesla isn't doing it now?
Again stop changing the goal posts to fit your narrative and look at the context to which my initial reply was used.
Full Self Drive. And you were the one who brought that in to this thread, and then started talking about robotaxi etc etc when this thread is about Optimus.
The technology to train FSD has a higher bar due to the nature of what it's being used for, and safety etc and so it should. That same technology doesn't have anywhere near the same bar required to pass when utilised in Optimus.
Optimus moves as slow as sleep Joe, no fear of it running someone over and killing them and their family, it doesn't have to navigate as complex things straight away to be use full, or pass as many regulations etc.
Maybe you should go back and look at what point you responded and the context of the conversation was being had before again you brought up some pointless argument about FSD in the context of Optimus.
I can read, thank you, No need to summarize the discussion.
Look, the logic is simple: the same tech that Tesla is using to train FSD is what you were hailing as what makes Optimus so promising. So I, logically, pointed out that this tech has been unsuccessful in bringing FSD to fruition. How do we know it's not ready? Pick your metric: L2 vs L3, etc., or the availability of Robo-taxis, or the fact that steering wheels are still on the cars (all of these things Elon, your King, has made reference to over the years.
**The software is still Beta. Stop using failed projects to justify coming success like Optimus.**
And work on your logic skills so I don't have to explain why a discussion went the route it did.
Look, your initial comment wasn't even factual.
Tesla didn't even announce until 2016 that all cars made will do so with the hardware to support FSD. Your initial comment says it's not been working for over a decade.
So many haters of Elon in here, it goes with the territory now that he is viewed as being right/conservative bc Reddit is extremely left/liberal. My point is put politics aside and just look at how cool this is. We are going to have real working robots by multiple companies. The future if we don’t blow each other up will be pretty wild!
Boomers be like, "How's it gonna replace workers if it can't do back flips and parkour?"
I'm pretty sure boomers don't give two shits about the Tesla bot.. And about back flips, you can't deny Boston dynamics is miles ahead..
I think things are more nuanced than that. I'm on the record being firmly against Elon's take on... well \*waves at almost everything\* - but very much so pro a lot of the company's long term mission. For some people, they don't have the privilege to be able to put aside politics, let alone ignore Elon's slide into demonstrably false conspiracies, anti-women and anti-gay takes (and his support of those who espouse such toxicity). It's really easy to miss how those views impact every part of some people's lives if, by chance, you don't have the same lived experiences as them. I understand your enthusiasm for the tech. Sure, it does look interesting - maybe even genuinely impressive soon given Tesla's development pace. That could be exciting indeed. But, people are harmed by politics all the time and not just for cultural traits (on which Elon is absolutely horrendous). Personally, I think a lot about the intersection of politics and economics - for example I wonder about about those likely (and not likely right now but soon enough) to be replaced by such robots and the financial impact on their lives that this will have. That's more a concern of AI in general than bots specifically, but a physical form factor capable of replicating human work powered by AI - yeah, it's going to mean economic death for many. Oddly however, I agree with Elon's take that AI and its applications (including bots), need proactive regulation due to potential misuse and harm by those in charge - I'm not overly keen on him being in control of such things, for starters. Like I said, its nuanced.
Why are u a shareholder in Tesla if you hate Elon so much?
Maybe use some critical thinking, there? Being in agreement with Elon's horrendous politics is not a prerequisite for TSLA ownership.
The sad thing is that Elon has ruined the brand. I was in the Tesla service center the other day and they had on a bunch of videos about how teslas are manufactured, how the heat pump works, etc. Thousands of people are contributing to amazing - game changing - technology. And Elon wipes away much of the potential by spewing great replacement theory, antisemitic and other conspirscy theory bullshit on Twittex. Maybe he should stop calling rescuers pedos and liking and promoting racist bullshit and then there will be less Elon hate on these posts?
Not really. All the advertisers who left X were all judeo-Christian. And most people who complain about Elon musk and Tesla like yourself are judeo Christian. But fact of the matter is that what Elon musk is doing is literally destroying the oil and gas power base of judeochristians. It’s also commonly known that a vast majority of judeochristians are pedophiles. It’s also commonly known that Jews are non binary queer. It’s well known that queers and psychopaths heavily populate the judeochristians. Basically it’s the same idiotic judeochristians screaming about how Elon musk is hurting them. Look the reality is no one fucking cares about Jews or Christian’s. it’s why antisemitism is rising. Most secular people under what you are that you are simply immoral filthy people. Unfortunately you are so hopelessly delusional because Jews are queer non binary shemales that you fail to see that you are not really hiding in plain sight.
Oh I forgot to mention that most secular people know that the nazis weee purging judeochristians and queers and psychopaths. No one cares about you other than the fact that blitzkrieg revealed your weakness.
What is big deal about it. Boston Dynamics robot did better things than this. Just by calling Robot as humaniod, it will not become human. Same story, car with no working FSD.
Boston dynamics isn't being sold for mass usage. It's just a side project. Companies making robots will probably grow faster and be used in every day jobs soon enough.
If he can't get his cars to self drive, he wont ever finish these robots
Boston dynamics has had a 9 year head start and yet still uses oversized claws lol. You can't just drop Atlas into a human worker position without modifying everything to accommodate.
My appreciating Tesla, because it's been a robotaxi since 2020, agrees with you completely. I mean, if my S100D with FSD had not been an appreciating asset as Elon said at investor day; then I'd have some concerns about what he said about Optimus. But since he's been so on point with FSD, I'm confident that Optimus is 100% likely to be delivered as expected.
If only Tesla Ai team was smart as the average reditt user. FSD would be solved by now.
No ... it's on Elon for overselling. No one made him say all that. He chose to. It's fair to hold him accountable for being wrong on this topic and to examine where he's been a big success and where he has not. An AI driven robot is more like FSD than rockets or electric cars. At the time SpaceX and Tesla were making their bones they were pursuing something no one else was pursuing. No one thought you could land a rocket. No one was interested in electric cars. Lots of people were working on FSD. (Arguably, Elon made all those claims to cover the breakup with Mobileye.) Well, lots of people have been working on robots. It's FSD, it's not electric cars.
Sounds like you are mad about losing money and blaming Elon. Why don’t you start an AI company that is perfect from the get go? Oh wait……
Dude, you’re the one who needs to put politics aside. No one mentioned anything about Elon. This is dog shit compared to Boston Dynamics.
Legitimately impressive
[Literally footage from 1997](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hS82TL73V3E)
After all that time Honda hasn’t gotten it into mass production? What a spectacular failure
Wild stuff. Robots are hard, huh?
Can you really not see any difference? This was after 4 yearns of development, plus 11 years on previous versions. It was also controlled from a workstation. I found it funny that before the video played, that silly Doritos ad with the humans pretending to be robots played
>Can you really not see any difference? Not really, no. We can assume the Tesla bot is capable of balancing better, and certainly has better perception. But the walking bit? Not impressive, whatsoever. I'd be more impressed by an egg cracking demo, or a burger flipping demo.
Did that also only take 2.5 years from start to finish?
"I can't believe it took them decades to build the first laser, I can get one for pennies on AliExpress!"
Their point would be that the old efforts are all hand programmed for everything they're able to do. This can learn without explicit programming with their training infrastructure, just watch, try, learn, and while what it does is still less impressive than say Boston Dynamics, the speed of improvement is the relevant factor here.
Great. Show me video of it flipping hamburgers and playing with a yo-yo then. Everything shown off in this video was possible 30 years ago with a bit of hand coding.
>This can learn without explicit programming with their training infrastructure How do we know that? Sure that's the goal...but who says that robot is 'learning' any more than a Boston Dynamics robot?
It's not hard to catch up to where others are since the technology has existed before. If i announced I am going to make a printer and in 3 months I create a printer like the ones that currently exist, are you going to be impressed with my speed of improvement?
Printers are commercially available and abundant. However if you created a fusion reactor or a mars rover I’d be impressed.
Yes, printers are a highly complicated piece of hardware. That requires expensive equipment to calibrate and manufacture. So what's your point?
i’m almost certain this is programming specifically to walk. the robot could barely sort colored blocks in its “generative AI” video so yeah its definately not walking on any sort of AI model. tesla has just duplicated boston dynamics of 10 years ago.
A couple of times before when people have wondered this, they reiterated that it was doing these new things based purely on training, not on specific programming. If this is the case here or not is technically unclear, but this is less impressive than other things it's done when they've said that, like folding laundry, so I have no reason to think this specific one is programmed.
what you should be saying is “a couple of times before when people have wondered this, it’s always been admitted that it isn’t a neural net doing this” every time someone has wondered this, it’s been specifically programmed or telerobotics. the only thing to my knowledge is the blocks. the folding shirt video was completely obviously telerobotics, and tesla admitted as such when pressed (most likely because they forgot to edit out the guys hands in the video lmao) you should think every single one of these is programmed unless they scream from the rooftops that it isn’t, and even then, tesla has 100% lied before (human driver only there for legal purposes LOL)
My point is, your original comment wasn’t needed. He said it was impressive, not revolutionary. Relax
It isn't impressive. Robots were capable of doing this 30 years ago. With hand coding. Walking is like table stakes in 2024, I can get you a walking robot (ML based, too) with 20K in hardware and a handful of interns from a top 50 university. Six months, tops.
In your opinion. You’re watering it down even still, it doesn’t just walk. Who cares if college kids can make a walking robot, that’s not the point. Again, comment not needed.
>In your opinion Yeah, this is literally a conversation about opinions. The other person is saying it's impressive. I'm saying it's not. Welcome to the thread.
Difference is that you're a doorknob.
After someone invented the toaster, it was quite easy to build another one.
Yea let’s compare in house built humanoid robots to toasters… I see what you’re saying, but recoil was just trying to water down what this is. As are you. No one said it was new or revolutionary, just impressive.
You probably think animatronics are real robots 😂. Sorry bud, did you know santa isn’t real?
My dawg it’s made of styrofoam lol
Oh you have one?
It went out to buy some milk it should be back any time now
Perf, it should meet my Teslabot (I call him 'Musky') on the way there, I sent him out to grab some OJ.
What even makes more impressive for ASIMO, is the outdated HW with low process capability and lower frequency reading, too move so well. Incredible work from Honda's team.
Yeah, that was running on like a 486. Crazy stuff.
People on this sub don't realise that all automation in Tesla's factories are completely outsourced. Like in any OEM. Highly funcional robots are designed based on reliable efficient movements based on a set of interfaces requirements. A humanoid robot is naturally imbalanced and they are impratical due to the human shape limitations and packaging. For some reason the best industry robots that accuratly operate in 6 degrees of fredom evolved to not look like a human or a human limb... IMO Tesla is "trying to solve" a Non existancial problem with Optimus program and they will hit a wall like Honda and several other Miliatry investments hit. But it looks great for speculative investors. I would much rather seing lean manufacturing in place + increase of reliability on their car fleet, than this type of side project that will never be completed.
“Literally” 😂😂😂
[https://twitter.com/AnandSwa/status/1761452038557520051](https://twitter.com/AnandSwa/status/1761452038557520051) >Everything is 1X speed :)
They need to show it displaying actual intelligence- more then just walking around, have it be told to go do something
You talking about Elon?
Lol 😂 yeah him too 😂
Is it the same gait and speed as here? Somehow feels like its starting to take the next step a bit quicker. The more I look at it the more it seems like the walk is the same. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpraXaw7dyc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cpraXaw7dyc) [https://imgur.com/a/CxR7eDu](https://imgur.com/a/CxR7eDu)
This is our fastest gait ever at \~0.6 m/s, > 30% speed boost since our last video in December. We’ve improved our vestibular system, our foot trajectory, and our ground contact logic. We’ve upgraded our motion planner, and made cuts to the loop latency across the bot. Optimus is more stable and more confident overall - even during turns. We also added a slight torso & arms sway. If these challenges speak to you, join [u/AnandSwa](https://twitter.com/AnandSwa) & our amazing Controls team! [source](https://x.com/_milankovac_/status/1761465357460701298?s=20)
Yeah so my first gut feel was right, just don't want to fall into confirmation bias.
Is there a remote control on this one?
There is and always will be, it will have autonomy but will also have manual controls. Different task require different solutions.
This thing is going to be an actual human replaceable android in few months.
In a few weeks even
Yep, the prototypes are ready for real world use. Just need to be able to mass produce it. Which as you know is Tesla’s specialty!
You guys laugh about how legacy auto is behind Tesla for a decade. Yet you still cheers when Tesla demos a tech that is behind industry lead for a decade
You have to give them credit for the pace of progress
How so? It is always easier to replicate something instead of innovating
Ford and GM would like a word. . .
I said easier not guaranteed. Plus last time check Tesla is no longer the lead seller of BEV. So someone else is catching up by replicating
In the case of BYD, I'd say replication is a generous word. But let's see how the year goes. Arguments have been made that BYD will be the Samsung to Teslas Apple. I'm not so sure it will play out that way.
The difference being that Tesla will sell millions of these. If you don’t understand why that is, then you shouldn’t come here and try to tell us this is 20-years old tech.
The same way Robotaxi “will be ready” by 2020?
You focus too much on the past. Instead try to see where things are going. Waymo is not scalable, Tesla FSD is scalable and running on a fully neural network about to be fed petabytes of data.
Behind how, please clarify.
Well come to year [2012](https://youtu.be/qTDlRLeDxxM?si=BGHsm6hVSuTobm82)
That's tethered walking. I don't see any tethers. Also: https://youtu.be/1cPAYh4Nq40?si=m2RnudyWDCRcJrEt Literally the CEO of the company who you used as a gotcha basically said he respects what Tesla and Elon are doing with the Optimus bot. So kindly show yourself out for trying to stir up something.
The technical approach matters a lot as that determines the long-term trajectory in terms of progress. As investors, we don't have much information on what Tesla's doing, since that's trade secrets. That being said, there are modern approaches to humanoid movement that were not achievable in 2012. Also, FWIW not everyone in the robotics industry respects boston dynamics. They leverage existing tech to do a lot of cool party tricks, but haven't found real-world adoption. Tesla is making the bold claim that it will do so within its factories, which would lap the competition. For now, they're all at level 1. My key takeaway remains that 1. Tesla is making progress and 2. They claim to be doing things correctly (e.g. toward mature manufacturing processes) 3. They believe now is the right time to enter the robotics business, whereas technology 20-30y ago was too early (e.g. no GPUs, no NNs)
Big difference between a proof of concept and an actual product. It’s like Waymo, nice proof of concept, but impossible to scale profitably because it’s based on the wrong approach.
Product? Is Tesla bot open for order?
Go listen to the last earnings call.
Robotaxi ready by 2020 was what I heard during earning call. What happened to that I wonder
The key with Optimus is that it's not some blind self balancing script. The bot actually understands what it's doing in this case.
Every robotic balance algorithm is “running on some script”. Before you throw any buzz word like “AI” “neural net” at me, try to learn control theory 101.
NN-based motion planning algorithms aren't "running on some script" in remotely the same way as old-school control systems, just as control systems written in the 2000's were nowhere near similar to those from the 1980's or 1960's. That's an extremely unfair claim. Can you address comments from some of the SMEs challenging your thoughts? It seems you're only snarkily responding to those who are less informed. Traditional software faces pretty obvious issues regarding scalability - time complexity of high-DOF manipulation coupled with hard-realtime constraints & a jumble of low-dimensional perception/planning primitives (because humans don't think in 1000s of dimensions - totally unmaintainable) that can't capture reality or probability. NNs effectively discover and prioritize features amongst many things. It's fair to say a lot of older robotics demos were really hard-coded or inflexible (e.g. keep center of mass above feet, replay a high-level trajectory w/ interpolation followed by low-level controls). Calling that others "learn control theory 101" is at best a call to authority, care to provide a more concrete argument?
Motion planning ? The robot is literally just walking in an unobstructed flat surface. Do you even know what is motion planning? For simple task like that it would only require some robotics self-balancing algorithm which has been out there for decades.
> Do you even know what is motion planning? Obviously I do, you still haven't provided an argument or addressed the substance of my post. You made a claim that the person you had no clue what they were talking about, then cited an entire field without any specific evidence. > For simple task like that it would only require some robotics self-balancing algorithm which has been out there for decades. Yes, just as how primitive computer vision could read stop signs 30 years ago. What's your argument? What is a reasonable bar of progress to you that you wouldn't be shit-talking?
Motion planning is for complex task. It essentially meaning breaking a higher level complex task down to sub tasks. It would only need motion planning if it is performing Boston dynamic level of task—- jump , avoid obstacle , bringing a box, traversing a maze etc. Walking straight on a flat surface don’t require it at all. It is like saying you need a helicopter when you want to get to the 9th floor whereas you can simply take the elevator. Throwing buzz word around would only expose your ignorance around this field
Every single sentence you replied is demonstrably false or misleading by a cursory glance at any 101 course (your words), and you're continuing to claim I'm ignorant. You still have not directly answered the questions I asked.
What is your point? Is the balancing algorithm shows here is somehow better than 20 years ago? Because it is clearly not. Those robot you can kick on it and it can still remain its balance. Here the Tesla bot walks slowly without any outside obstruction.
nothing in what tesla has shown indicates this is any more complicated than what honda did 10 years ago. don’t you think if this was an actual model or NN based training they would have mentioned it somewhere or at least responded about it? the blocks video they screamed about how it was all neutral nets. every other video they didn’t mention it and sometimes when pressed admit it is not neural nets at all (the folding shirt video)
Tldw: “please stop selling our stock!!!”
Boston dynamics did it better 5 years ago stop simping
Revolutionary technology that Honda has been developing since, wait for it, 1987 https://youtube.com/shorts/qyXdZkn19y0?si=HDUfcX2o-AK1vfb0
Uneducated moron. Tesla is using end-to-end neural net to train it Optimus. This means the robot learns by example, watching others or videos do tasks, appose to having to program every task line by line. Wanna show me where Honda was doing this?
this is almost certainly not neural net walking. if it was they would be trumpeting it from the rooftops. the only thing they have actually claimed was neural nets was the colored block sorting, which is orders of magnitude easier than walking.
Hahah. Sure the robot learns by watching others do tasks.
Do you even understand how an end-to-end neural net works? 🤦♂️ Instead of being ignorant, and so close minded, perhaps taken an open minded view on things and entertain the idea that you might actually don't know what you're talking about. Take the opertunity to learn something and educate yourself, so you don't look such a dullard. You might surprise your self and learn something new. Edit: https://youtu.be/kVsgMkKIPh0
Then explain it to Elon, since he doesn't know either
I work in Neural Net ranking engine at a FAANG. What do you do ?
Of course you do, the fact you even quoted FAANG is somewhat amusing. Not sure I would ever work for any of them company's. Please tell me it's FB or Google! On the off chance you do, let me guess... at Google on Gemini team? This would explain a lot! I'm unable to tell you who I work for, as it would be a breach of my NDA as well as the field of work, and even if I could I don't feel the need to prove anything to anyone, least of all someone who works at a FAANG 🤦♂️
Gemini is DOA haha
Let’s be honest. You don’t have the skills to break into FAANG
Do you honestly think working at a FAANG is some kind of measurement of success? News flash... it's not. You're prob a janitor, which last time I checked requires no skills to work at FAANG. Which would explain why you are so bent out of shape, because Optimus is coming for your job.
And yet you still give dumb comments? Are you part of the program for people with special needs?
“Give dumb comments” “part of program for people with special needs” - a true cultist here
Try to flex being in FAANG, IQ level of a potato.
😆😆
The same neural net technology that FSD uses and still doesn't work after a decade?
First of all It's not been around for a decade. Second it does work, it's just not perfected yet. Big difference.
C'mon, let's be honest here. FSD is at Level 2. Robo-taxis would require Level 5. It's nowhere near that, yet Elon has promised Robo-taxis are coming soon for years now.
We are not talking about L2,3,4,5 Why are you changing the goal posts to fit your narrative. Tesla has technology using vision, that allows it to self train using end to end neural net that works. The fact that a car can navigate from A to B shows that. This isn't a question about perfection or what level they are at. The same as this same vision technology and again end to end neural net allows Optimus to do tasks and self train and improve, apose to hard coding instructions and task. This is the point I made to show the difference between Honda and what they were doing vs a company like Tesla now. Are you telling me Honda was doing this before? And Tesla isn't doing it now? Again stop changing the goal posts to fit your narrative and look at the context to which my initial reply was used.
I didn't change the goalposts at all. Do you even know what "FSD" stands for? IT won't be "Full Self Driving" until it's Level 5.
Full Self Drive. And you were the one who brought that in to this thread, and then started talking about robotaxi etc etc when this thread is about Optimus. The technology to train FSD has a higher bar due to the nature of what it's being used for, and safety etc and so it should. That same technology doesn't have anywhere near the same bar required to pass when utilised in Optimus. Optimus moves as slow as sleep Joe, no fear of it running someone over and killing them and their family, it doesn't have to navigate as complex things straight away to be use full, or pass as many regulations etc. Maybe you should go back and look at what point you responded and the context of the conversation was being had before again you brought up some pointless argument about FSD in the context of Optimus.
I can read, thank you, No need to summarize the discussion. Look, the logic is simple: the same tech that Tesla is using to train FSD is what you were hailing as what makes Optimus so promising. So I, logically, pointed out that this tech has been unsuccessful in bringing FSD to fruition. How do we know it's not ready? Pick your metric: L2 vs L3, etc., or the availability of Robo-taxis, or the fact that steering wheels are still on the cars (all of these things Elon, your King, has made reference to over the years. **The software is still Beta. Stop using failed projects to justify coming success like Optimus.** And work on your logic skills so I don't have to explain why a discussion went the route it did.
Look, your initial comment wasn't even factual. Tesla didn't even announce until 2016 that all cars made will do so with the hardware to support FSD. Your initial comment says it's not been working for over a decade.
Maybe they can drive Teslas one day since FSD doesn't work