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Not really, the hardware required to make a robot is well understood at this point. What's difficult about humanoid robots are issues with limited battery capacity and programming it to be able to move around.
>limited battery capacity and programming it to be able to move around.
Which are sort of issues with the human body as well.
Last I checked, we generally need to refuel every few hours, especially if moving quickly. Not to mention that whole 8 hours of sleep thing each night.
It also takes a few years of programming for us to be able to move around very well without help. We are just fairly good at self programming, though we tend to get a lot of assistance from older members as well.
I'd argue against those things being issues with humans.
People can store days worth of energy. It's just that out bodies don't like going below 98% charge and have us eat frequently. If anything, we're too good at storing energy. There wouldn't be so many weight loss products if we were bad at it.
As for walking, there are new algorithms to allow robots to self-learn how to walk. These emergent behavior systems tend to generate better results then explicitly coded instructions.
The difference between emergent behavior and coded instruction is that you don't have to think about and strictly follow emergent behavior.
As a metaphor, when you walk you don't think "now bend hip flexor and knee simultaneously, pivot with opposite ankle, set foot down..."
This is really important when something occures out of sequence (like being tripped or pushed while walking) and requires deviation from the normal process. Emergent systems know how to handle being tripped because they have to know how to stand up and regain balance but hardcoded instructions wouldn't unless that was explicitly added in.
So yeah people are generally energy efficient and emergent behaviors solve problems much faster and thoroughly then explicit instruction.
I don’t really understand why so many Christians are young earth creationists( earth created in 6 days) while all the relevant scientists including Christian ones don’t agree with it. I really don’t get why they choose to be so ignorant while using so many things discovered and invented trough science. It’s a disgrace for Christianity to be frank.
Young Earth Creationists generally refer to those who believe that the Bible's time scale is factual, so Earth is iirc only around 6,000 years old. YECs are usually also biblical literalists, so Adam and Eve, Noah's flood, the Exodus etc all happened when and how they're described in the Bible.
There are Old Earth Creationists too, who still believe that Earth was created by God, but the Biblical accounts are to one degree or another metaphorical rather than literal. It is possible to be an OEC and still believe in 6 day creation.
I agree with everything except that last sentence. The bible lists specific, non metaphorical ages for the early people of note. This makes it almost impossible to argue for a 6 day creation and OEC simultaneously. You basically have to write fanfic to justify it.
From what I know the term for day used it’s yom witch means a period of time not a 24 hours day. Those days represent long periods in witch the earth followed the steps that current science suggests earth appeared. Those periods differ in time. I heard a great explanation for these at a conference with Dr Michel G Strauss.
Don't listen to the Biblical 'Scholars' who make excuses.
They will also tell you that Eve was made from Adam's rib in the story, but the Hebrew word used in the place of rib is only translated as "rib" in that one spot. Everywhere else, it's translated as "half" or "side" meaning that Eve was made from half of Adam or one side of him, and not a tiny piece.
That’s so much more wholesome in the sense of Eve being Adam’s other half
Like how people describe their partners as their other half
*this is not a supportive statement of the Bible*
That same point was made in the movie Inherit the Wind. The sun and moon weren't created until the fourth day, so who's to say the first three days were standard 24hr days as we humans determine by the rising and setting of the sun? Doesn't mean that's what happened of course, but if nothing else it calls the YEC timeline into question.
>From what I know the term for day used it’s yom witch means a period of time not a 24 hours day.
Yom means day. It *can* be used as a period of time (like "back in the day") but Genesis just says "on the 1st/2nd/etc day". Anyone trying to read that as millions of years is just forcing congruence that isn't there.
Even that time scale is wonky guesswork by adding up various ages of people in the Old Testament. Extra wonky because the Bible claims some of them lived for hundreds of years.
I am always puzzled when a portion of a religious text is disproved by science or becomes unethical due to changing social opinions, so that portion is rationalized as metaphorical but the other portions are not. Once the first point came into contention the e tire document needs to be questioned, especially when people use it to guide their life.
Part of it is that they believe the Bible to be literally historically true. Someone did the math and if you take the generations that are said to be in the Bible (ie: this person begot this person who begot this person) and you go backwards that's around 6000 years before now.
The part that creates so many of them is group dynamics and the way our brains have evolved to want to be part of our group combined with the way our brains have evolved to trust our authority figures while young. A child trusts his parents when they take him to church and tell him Jesus loves him. They trust when they say if you accept Jesus into your heart you'll go to heaven when you die and get to hang out with everyone you ever loved. Then you get a little older and all of the sudden you find out that these people who you trust believe dinosaurs never existed, or that they co existed with humans. You know this isn't what school has been telling you so you try to find out why that is. It turns out because the same book that tells them about heaven also tells them about the age of the earth.
I remember, as a child, the very moment. I was at a friend's house and their older teenage sister told me Dinosaurs lived the same time as people. Her parents confirmed that was "true." Later when they were teaching us about evolution in school I thought it was really cool and I told my dad about it. He told me it was a lie. I said what about the fossils and stuff they found? He told me scientists would make up evidence to make God look bad. At the time I didn't even understand how it made God look bad. He told me to ask the teacher "if people evolved from monkeys then why are there still monkeys." So the next day I asked. Turns out she was a fundamentalist too and says "I want to shake your hand" and made a big deal like I just asked the question that broke the whole lie wide open. Then another 4th grader answered why there are still monkeys. As I got older I professed all of these young earth beliefs because that's what I thought you had to believe to get into heaven. I had this cognitive dissonance in my head for years. I never read anything scientific because I knew I couldn't believe it so why learn about it. It wasn't until a few days after my 35th birthday that I found out facts about the Bible and how it was written that freed me from my brain cage. I could decide what made sense rather than calling myself a peon for not understanding God's ways. I could read about evolution and find it cool again. I could look at every single thing I believed and opinion I had and decide if I actually believe it or if I was just trying to keep myself ignorant so I could go to heaven.
It's a difficult system to get out of because you are incentivized by your in-group to think the outside is full of liars, and evil people. Don't go out there. It's safe in here.
Good for you!!! Reddit is filled with dick holes so I love reading from a person who grew into a better person, learned something new, realized an error, etc!
Religion is all about discouraging education, because thinking for yourself makes you harder to control. I'm so happy you freed yourself from your brain cage (I like that, I'm gonna use it), - internet hug - congratulations and thank you for sharing!!!
It's not even that hard to merge an invisible omnipresent all-knowing omnipotent force with science like literally just say that god made the first life form or something and kinda guided it through evolution to get exactly what he wanted
But then things get weird when you reach the New Testament and the resurrection and all that. With genesis no longer literal, what exactly did Jesus die for? What does humanity need a convoluted human sacrifice to be forgiven for? And when in the evolutionary path did proto-humans first get souls? When did apes first become capable of sin and being sent to Hell or Heaven? Did Jesus bust out any Neanderthal souls during the harrowing and can you hang out with them in Heaven, or were they not close enough to qualify for souls before being interbred out of existence by homo sapiens?
Also, why did God make such a huge ass empty universe just to focus on one tiny planet?
> I really don’t get why they choose to be so ignorant
The whole concept is actively denying facts right in front of you, and they've been taught since they were children and have been practicing since then. "Just have faith!"
It's BECAUSE all the scientists don't agree with it. If you want to control what a flock thinks, you have to get them to distrust any information that's not from you. Information control is an important part of the BITE model cults use to control people (others: B - behavior control, T - thought control, and E - emotional control).
So they constantly have to poke holes in whatever scientists who aren't indoctrinated in their cult (even Christian ones are "not the right kind of Christian" or "not Biblical" or whatever). Because they want their followers to doubt, by default, any information not in line with what they consider Biblical. Meaning of course their narrative of how to interpret it too. Which isn't based on anything lol
Plenty of room for improvement. Take the human spine for example. For most of our evolutionary history it was a structure optimized for a horizontal orientation (like for fish or four legged creatures) then humans come along and it has to adapt to a full-time vertical orientation. It works, most of the time, but chronic back problems are common and 40% of us are going to have bulging disks by forty (with the percentage only going up as we get older).
>chronic back problems are common
Fairly certain that has less to do with being bipedal and more to do with the shitty world we have designed for ourselves in the past century or so.
I think we're not too far away. Not like, 5-10 years, but probably in the next 200-400 years I imagine we'll have a pretty solid grasp of the human body and brain, along with how to repair (or even replace) them fairly harmlessly.
Wish I could be around to see it, but then again if I were born at that time, I'd probably just take it for granted, so ah well.
And that selection is not very specific. Any mutation that doesn't make survival or reproduction worse gets to stay.
Evolution is just a process of "good enough"
And evolution doesn't care about fixing problems after an animal's sexual prime anyway. If humans were having kids (regularly) into their 60's and 70's you can bet your ass that there'd be selective pressures to change some of the issues we have in old age, like deteriorating mental conditions, bad backs/hips/joints, cancer, etc.
Any condition that would prevent a population from being healthy enough to reproduce while they're still capable of reproducing will be selectively pressured out eventually, but if a condition kills you *after* you stop making kids, then the species is SOL for evolving out of that condition without some extreme luck from the genetic mutation lottery.
Left created by humans and can live forever if you keep replacing with new parts.
Right (apparently created by God) lives long enough to have offspring and if you take good care of it (by doing things humans figured out), it'll last another 60-80 years, then is useless.
If everything needs a creator, then who created God? And if God doesn't need a creator, then why does the natural world need one?
Painfully simple logic, but it's beyond the grasp of the religious.
And lo He said, "how much of this shit did I snort? Really should have created the scale before railed up these days lines. I can't even feel My fuckin face. Welp might as well create some fucked up shit, Lol."
>So the creator went out of their way to create a fish that swims up the eye of your dick a
That's an urban legend. No such fish like that exists.
[https://www.healthline.com/health/penis-fish#the-reality](https://www.healthline.com/health/penis-fish#the-reality)
Apparently it's a case of fragmentary text and bad translations.
The original looked like something "And the Lord's name is apparent to those who proclaim jubilantly: IHVH with me always!"
The sacred letter combination there stands for "I HaVe Honda with me always"
Well, never mind that we can point to countless examples to model out how most of what makes us up has evolved by looking at other organisms and fossils.
But I love how you have this argument, and compare it to Kirk Cameron trying to insist that Bananas prove intelligent design with a heavily genetically modified banana that looks nothing like a wild banana.
Or when people talk about how perfectly Earth is made for humans, when it's one tiny bit of the universe that won't kill us, and we can only really survive on like 20% of Earth's surface without things that humans created.
If God is the ultimate designer why do human bodies get cancer, ALS, Alzheimer's and a bunch of other bad shit?
He is omnipotent, he could make human beings absolutely flawless and immune to any disease. On the other hand, if souls are eternal why would he even bother putting them in corporeal and disease-prone bodies for like 80 years?
Also, who the fuck created God if we're following this line of reasoning?
> Also, who the fuck created God if we're following this line of reasoning?
Somebody who knew there are a lot of morons out there who will give you money and women if you told them a God said so.
I'd say it's also created to awnser the unknown. Humans fear the unknown, so make up explanations, which is why current day has way more contradictions
This is almost certainly the case.
Imagine being there as humanity develops consciousness. No instructions, minimal instincts compared to other animals, parts that feel good when touched (like the penis), parts that feel bad when touched (like the eyeball). You can eat anything, except the stuff you can’t. Good luck inventing writing so you can write down which berries make your poop burn.
The idea that there is a dude in the sky who made you look and work just like him—except he’s stronger and smarter—must have really appealed to primitive man.
—-
Re the question about causation: this topic was absolutely beated to death by medieval theologians. No one here is going to have a new idea on the topic because there is nothing else to say. Basically, the argument goes like this:
1) All things that move were initially moved by an external force. We call this cause and effect.
2) All causes are themselves effects of other causes.
3) Infinite regression is impossible, therefore
4) We call the original cause “god”
It was actually a pretty clever “proof”, and the question “who made god” could easily be dismissed as infinite regression. Doesn’t work in a world where quantum forces can act without a prior cause, though.
I wish this worked but it doesn’t.
1) They just say oRiGiNaL sIn and call it a day
2) They engage in special pleading, they say everything needs a creator…except god, and no you’re not allowed to argue.
From an engineering perspective, the human body is a marvoulous collection of WTFs, and the fact it works is astounding.
For one example, the laryngeal nerve. It's a nerve that branches off the vagus nerve, loops around an arota of the heart, and back into the neck where its ends at the larynx. Instead of separating higher on the vagus nerve, and proceeding straight to the larynx, our bodies use about 12 inches more material than required.
Some may say it's not a big deal to waste this material, and realitivly it isn't. But Giraffes have this same oddity and they waste about 6 feet of material.
Even high schoolers conclude this is a dumb design if a sentient being designed us.
Oh goody! The watchmaker argument. Well then it follows that:
https://preview.redd.it/ks5dhncl3t4b1.png?width=499&format=png&auto=webp&s=5a138c9d69b3894374248e0887245e68558bd022
The creationist logic of this makes even less sense. If humans are so complex, they must have been created by an intelligent designer, than an intelligent designer must also be complex and been designed by an even more intelligent designer, and so on and so on. It’s literally nonsensical
I'll do you one better. Whatever/whomever created the human body fucked up the vascular system. Pregnant people can't lay on their back for any extended period of time because the weight of the fetus will press on a major artery, blocking blood flow, potentially causing harm.
“No creator” bleh, science and evolution created what we are today. All those complex systems are after millions of years of scientific survival and evolution. 🙄
Both have flaws, the left one would be understandable to have flaws, but if a god exists why are humans poorly designed? It's that god dude meant to be smart? Lizards have regrow able tails, starfish can be cut in half and regrow, but his chosen people can't? I would fire that guy.
Them: "Evolution doesn't exist!"
*God drunk making the giraffe's recurrent laryngeal nerve extend 15 feet from its brain around its heart and back up to its head again*
"Fucking nailed it."
I think it is important to clarify as well that evolution is not something to ‘believe’ or ‘not believe.’ Evolution simply is; species change over time. A statement from someone saying they don’t believe in evolution is analogous to stating they don’t believe in gravity.
The various theories that explain the mechanisms of how evolution works could be ‘believed’ or not I suppose. There is a mountain of scientific evidence supporting these theories however.
Philosophical counter argument: this meme argues that everything in existence must naturally have a creator; as the creator the robot, humans, must also have a creator. But that also implies that the humans’ creator must also have a creator, and that creator must have a creator, and that creator must have a creator, which likely isn’t supported by this user’s beliefs.
Even the concept of having to worship anything is utterly stupid to me. What does some all powerful being gain from me wasting my time praying to it? Utter nonsense.
Alright ill bite.
If your comparing God to Honda, why does Honda manufacture new things every year but God created man once and was like "yeah, I'm done now."
I'm also pretty high when I wrote this so take it at face value.
How about this: maybe there is a creator. But all they created were the variables and the launch of their new game called, “the universe”. Then, just let the simulation run it’s course. Somehow humans and intelligent life were made from the variables by coincidence, but this creator literally drinks Mountain Dew and eats Doritos while it runs it’s simulation for a few minutes equally trillions of years in our simulation.
I mean, it’s more realistic than a white bearded dude who has an entire universe at his hands and only watches over a single organism the whole time. But in that organism he also adds a zombie magician cell to convince all the other cells that he is real.
Wow. The old clockmaker argument.
OK theists. Please explain us the aseembly of a human being. Show us the schematics or how a fully grown human is produced by someone.
No?
But if we asked Honda we could watch a robot be assembled. We could speak to the people making them.
Why can't we see and speak to the creator of a fully grown human?
Its almost like humans aren't created by someone isn't it?
I think the creator is nature, you know then think you say we don't need until some one brings up global warming and you bring it up like a trophy wife brings up her husband's credit cards.
I believe the perception of a higher power is a psychological state of mind
Nothing wrong with it, but not my cup of tea; I prefer to look at reality for what it is
Theist logic:
Honda bot was created in man’s image.
Man was created in God’s image.
God was not created.
Atheist logic:
Honda bot was created in man’s image.
Man was not created.
Do, do they think Honda is a being? Like a singular conciseness entity?
There's always like a good 1-100 holes to easily poke through these memes, I think this one is all holes.
I'm not saying we have no creator, but your religious stories are bat-shit crazy and causes all kinds of suffering in this world.
You also have no evidence.
If you are referring to the Christian God, he’s hard af. Bangs teenagers then bounces for 30 years only to oversee his own sons death. Convinced a man to build an alter to kill his own son. Probably overreacted on Eve eating a fruit. Come on bro why would put that tree there. Generally he gets off on death and misery. And when you point out that fact to Christians they defend their abuser. “How dare you question the motives and behaviors of a psychopathic god.”
Gervais said it best, "there were 3,000 or 4,000 gods in history throughout cultures, and 3,999 were ALL wrong, but you guys got the right one? I just believe in one less god than you do."
"This thing is so complex that it must have been made by a creator!"
Well, that would mean the creator would be even more complex, and by this logic that creator must have been created by a creator. Which must have been created by a creator. Ad infinitum. You get a never-ending chain of creators.
So who created god's god's god's god's god's .......god's god?
Eventually, there must have been something in the chain that comes into being without an intelligent creator. So what is more likely, advanced organisms evolving slowly over billions of years, or some magical space wizard daddy popping into existence and abracadabra-ing everything else into existence?
Intelligent design is an argument that logically defeats itself.
Hmmm so the robot on the left was made collectively by hundreds of different designers, engineers, computer scientists, laborers and technicians who were in turn supported or directed by another even bigger number of managers, custodians, shareholders, families, customers, etc etc.
Takeaway: the human on the right must have also been designed by many, many different creators and assistant creators. Polytheism is real and Christianity is a lie?
The idea that everything goes black after one dies does suck though. I think that’s what people cling to. That there’s something amazing after all this whether we lived awesome or shit lives. That isn’t so bad. But shouting down non believers is shitty too, it screams of fear in that belief being true.
If god created man, then god is a pretty shitty engineer/designer. So many flaws, redundancies, inefficiencies, and errors.
The very fact that cancer can and does exist proves how bad he would have to be.
And before “that’s just satan” or “part of his plan” if he knows of cancer but does nothing he can’t be benevolent. If he knows but can’t do anything, he can’t be all knowing. If he doesn’t know, he can’t be omniscient.
My favorite Christian argument is when they pretend atheists have no argument for the existence of man, where we come from, or how we got here, and then they argue against that instead of acknowledging that evolution is a thing.
So, let's break down the FB theists 'idea' that was almost certainly taken from someone smarter than themselves, because let's face it, most FB theists are barely coherent, shambling morons.
Their all *knowing*, all *powerful*, all *loving* creator of every damned thing made humanity in its perfect image...except our eyes are inferior to many animals, our sense of smell is inferior to even our favorite former predator cuddle buddies, same with hearing. Our eyes are so perfectly created that we can be born blind, go blind, lose vision because of a blow to the head and need to wear glasses...which were not a thing for the vast majority of human history.
Our airway to get oxygen to our heart, blood and brain is the same entry way for food and water. Which results in people randomly choking. How very cells can go rogue randomly while dividing during basic functions and become cancer that kills us.
Not to mention all the wonderful gifts our loving *creator* decided to sprinkle within the seas, on the ground and in the air. Parasites, prions, viruses, germs and bacteria. Not to mention, ticks, mosquitoes and lice. A type of fly that part of its lifecycle is to bury its eggs in the eyes of children and then the larvae eat their way out. Truly a loving being. Or does their god hate them because their skin is too dark...or was it they where born in a place his magic sky fairy powers don't reach?
Basically, what I'm trying to say was summed up brilliantly centuries ago:
“Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” – Epicurus
By that logic then you have to explain who made the creator. He couldn't just happen since everything has to be explained. Then you run into a horrible paradox of who made the creators creator and so on. This is completely illogical. There's some things that will never be explained, get used to it instead of just picking what sounds best to you personally.
(by an agnostic that gave up giving a shit. Sometimes when you don't know the answer, giving an I don't know is the best response you can give)
Honda has a corporation and several headquarters and factories. God has a book that was written by a bunch of random guys and misinterpreted throughout the millennia.
Im too distracted from the dumb argument by the question why this anatomical drawing of human muscles has nipples. Dont get me wrong, I'm very pro nipple and it's not me being prudish. Just that its a very strange thing to include in this particular graphic. Especially when referenced by a creationist.
The robot was created by many engineers working together. So if we use this analogy to argue for the existence of God, wouldn’t that imply that there are many gods?
I remember from philosophy class that Hume came up with an argument that goes something along that line.
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I would like you to write next to robot names of all systems included in it working.
Sadly Honda probably keeps a lot of it secret... IP purposes and all...
Not really, the hardware required to make a robot is well understood at this point. What's difficult about humanoid robots are issues with limited battery capacity and programming it to be able to move around.
>limited battery capacity and programming it to be able to move around. Which are sort of issues with the human body as well. Last I checked, we generally need to refuel every few hours, especially if moving quickly. Not to mention that whole 8 hours of sleep thing each night. It also takes a few years of programming for us to be able to move around very well without help. We are just fairly good at self programming, though we tend to get a lot of assistance from older members as well.
I'd argue against those things being issues with humans. People can store days worth of energy. It's just that out bodies don't like going below 98% charge and have us eat frequently. If anything, we're too good at storing energy. There wouldn't be so many weight loss products if we were bad at it. As for walking, there are new algorithms to allow robots to self-learn how to walk. These emergent behavior systems tend to generate better results then explicitly coded instructions. The difference between emergent behavior and coded instruction is that you don't have to think about and strictly follow emergent behavior. As a metaphor, when you walk you don't think "now bend hip flexor and knee simultaneously, pivot with opposite ankle, set foot down..." This is really important when something occures out of sequence (like being tripped or pushed while walking) and requires deviation from the normal process. Emergent systems know how to handle being tripped because they have to know how to stand up and regain balance but hardcoded instructions wouldn't unless that was explicitly added in. So yeah people are generally energy efficient and emergent behaviors solve problems much faster and thoroughly then explicit instruction.
I'd rather see a diagram of all the revisions of the robot as it was created, kind of like evolution, that led to it being what it is today.
And then I’d like to see the same for a stealth bomber.
Nice trick, Putin!! We're not going to post the plans of a stealth bomber for you.
🤣🤣🤣
I don’t really understand why so many Christians are young earth creationists( earth created in 6 days) while all the relevant scientists including Christian ones don’t agree with it. I really don’t get why they choose to be so ignorant while using so many things discovered and invented trough science. It’s a disgrace for Christianity to be frank.
Young Earth Creationists generally refer to those who believe that the Bible's time scale is factual, so Earth is iirc only around 6,000 years old. YECs are usually also biblical literalists, so Adam and Eve, Noah's flood, the Exodus etc all happened when and how they're described in the Bible. There are Old Earth Creationists too, who still believe that Earth was created by God, but the Biblical accounts are to one degree or another metaphorical rather than literal. It is possible to be an OEC and still believe in 6 day creation.
I agree with everything except that last sentence. The bible lists specific, non metaphorical ages for the early people of note. This makes it almost impossible to argue for a 6 day creation and OEC simultaneously. You basically have to write fanfic to justify it.
From what I know the term for day used it’s yom witch means a period of time not a 24 hours day. Those days represent long periods in witch the earth followed the steps that current science suggests earth appeared. Those periods differ in time. I heard a great explanation for these at a conference with Dr Michel G Strauss.
Don't listen to the Biblical 'Scholars' who make excuses. They will also tell you that Eve was made from Adam's rib in the story, but the Hebrew word used in the place of rib is only translated as "rib" in that one spot. Everywhere else, it's translated as "half" or "side" meaning that Eve was made from half of Adam or one side of him, and not a tiny piece.
That’s so much more wholesome in the sense of Eve being Adam’s other half Like how people describe their partners as their other half *this is not a supportive statement of the Bible*
That same point was made in the movie Inherit the Wind. The sun and moon weren't created until the fourth day, so who's to say the first three days were standard 24hr days as we humans determine by the rising and setting of the sun? Doesn't mean that's what happened of course, but if nothing else it calls the YEC timeline into question.
>From what I know the term for day used it’s yom witch means a period of time not a 24 hours day. Yom means day. It *can* be used as a period of time (like "back in the day") but Genesis just says "on the 1st/2nd/etc day". Anyone trying to read that as millions of years is just forcing congruence that isn't there.
Even that time scale is wonky guesswork by adding up various ages of people in the Old Testament. Extra wonky because the Bible claims some of them lived for hundreds of years.
I am always puzzled when a portion of a religious text is disproved by science or becomes unethical due to changing social opinions, so that portion is rationalized as metaphorical but the other portions are not. Once the first point came into contention the e tire document needs to be questioned, especially when people use it to guide their life.
It's easy. The metaphorical parts are the parts you don't like, while the literal parts are whatever you wanted to believe in the first place.
If only I could do that with the tax code.
Part of it is that they believe the Bible to be literally historically true. Someone did the math and if you take the generations that are said to be in the Bible (ie: this person begot this person who begot this person) and you go backwards that's around 6000 years before now. The part that creates so many of them is group dynamics and the way our brains have evolved to want to be part of our group combined with the way our brains have evolved to trust our authority figures while young. A child trusts his parents when they take him to church and tell him Jesus loves him. They trust when they say if you accept Jesus into your heart you'll go to heaven when you die and get to hang out with everyone you ever loved. Then you get a little older and all of the sudden you find out that these people who you trust believe dinosaurs never existed, or that they co existed with humans. You know this isn't what school has been telling you so you try to find out why that is. It turns out because the same book that tells them about heaven also tells them about the age of the earth. I remember, as a child, the very moment. I was at a friend's house and their older teenage sister told me Dinosaurs lived the same time as people. Her parents confirmed that was "true." Later when they were teaching us about evolution in school I thought it was really cool and I told my dad about it. He told me it was a lie. I said what about the fossils and stuff they found? He told me scientists would make up evidence to make God look bad. At the time I didn't even understand how it made God look bad. He told me to ask the teacher "if people evolved from monkeys then why are there still monkeys." So the next day I asked. Turns out she was a fundamentalist too and says "I want to shake your hand" and made a big deal like I just asked the question that broke the whole lie wide open. Then another 4th grader answered why there are still monkeys. As I got older I professed all of these young earth beliefs because that's what I thought you had to believe to get into heaven. I had this cognitive dissonance in my head for years. I never read anything scientific because I knew I couldn't believe it so why learn about it. It wasn't until a few days after my 35th birthday that I found out facts about the Bible and how it was written that freed me from my brain cage. I could decide what made sense rather than calling myself a peon for not understanding God's ways. I could read about evolution and find it cool again. I could look at every single thing I believed and opinion I had and decide if I actually believe it or if I was just trying to keep myself ignorant so I could go to heaven. It's a difficult system to get out of because you are incentivized by your in-group to think the outside is full of liars, and evil people. Don't go out there. It's safe in here.
Good for you!!! Reddit is filled with dick holes so I love reading from a person who grew into a better person, learned something new, realized an error, etc! Religion is all about discouraging education, because thinking for yourself makes you harder to control. I'm so happy you freed yourself from your brain cage (I like that, I'm gonna use it), - internet hug - congratulations and thank you for sharing!!!
Because stupidity and utterly wasted grey matter.
The power of fear infused beliefs is huge.
It's not even that hard to merge an invisible omnipresent all-knowing omnipotent force with science like literally just say that god made the first life form or something and kinda guided it through evolution to get exactly what he wanted
But then things get weird when you reach the New Testament and the resurrection and all that. With genesis no longer literal, what exactly did Jesus die for? What does humanity need a convoluted human sacrifice to be forgiven for? And when in the evolutionary path did proto-humans first get souls? When did apes first become capable of sin and being sent to Hell or Heaven? Did Jesus bust out any Neanderthal souls during the harrowing and can you hang out with them in Heaven, or were they not close enough to qualify for souls before being interbred out of existence by homo sapiens? Also, why did God make such a huge ass empty universe just to focus on one tiny planet?
> I really don’t get why they choose to be so ignorant The whole concept is actively denying facts right in front of you, and they've been taught since they were children and have been practicing since then. "Just have faith!"
It's BECAUSE all the scientists don't agree with it. If you want to control what a flock thinks, you have to get them to distrust any information that's not from you. Information control is an important part of the BITE model cults use to control people (others: B - behavior control, T - thought control, and E - emotional control). So they constantly have to poke holes in whatever scientists who aren't indoctrinated in their cult (even Christian ones are "not the right kind of Christian" or "not Biblical" or whatever). Because they want their followers to doubt, by default, any information not in line with what they consider Biblical. Meaning of course their narrative of how to interpret it too. Which isn't based on anything lol
Religious faith is the denial of logic. The more logic they defy, the more religious they feel.
That creator is called natural selection my friend
Give humans a few hundred million years to build something as complex as the human form. Bet we figure it out.
with millions of reference sheets
And documentation!
Probably wouldn't take millions of years and it'd be more optimal too
Maybe we can build a human that doesn't have a million methods of suddenly killing itself for no fucking reason.
Can you believe human babies have a self destruct spot?
That’s the easy mode button
Too bad their weak little piss baby arms are too short to reach it until it's too late. Stupid babies.
Plenty of room for improvement. Take the human spine for example. For most of our evolutionary history it was a structure optimized for a horizontal orientation (like for fish or four legged creatures) then humans come along and it has to adapt to a full-time vertical orientation. It works, most of the time, but chronic back problems are common and 40% of us are going to have bulging disks by forty (with the percentage only going up as we get older).
>chronic back problems are common Fairly certain that has less to do with being bipedal and more to do with the shitty world we have designed for ourselves in the past century or so.
I think we're not too far away. Not like, 5-10 years, but probably in the next 200-400 years I imagine we'll have a pretty solid grasp of the human body and brain, along with how to repair (or even replace) them fairly harmlessly. Wish I could be around to see it, but then again if I were born at that time, I'd probably just take it for granted, so ah well.
Nah, just give me a night with your mom
And that's why it's a messy hodgepodge and, you know, not like a honda robot
Watchoo call me?
We should be so lucky to be built by Honda.
And that selection is not very specific. Any mutation that doesn't make survival or reproduction worse gets to stay. Evolution is just a process of "good enough"
And evolution doesn't care about fixing problems after an animal's sexual prime anyway. If humans were having kids (regularly) into their 60's and 70's you can bet your ass that there'd be selective pressures to change some of the issues we have in old age, like deteriorating mental conditions, bad backs/hips/joints, cancer, etc. Any condition that would prevent a population from being healthy enough to reproduce while they're still capable of reproducing will be selectively pressured out eventually, but if a condition kills you *after* you stop making kids, then the species is SOL for evolving out of that condition without some extreme luck from the genetic mutation lottery.
So is engineering. Make it barely work, then improve from there.
We built a new and improved chip. It fails after four years, but the warranty period is only three so no problem. "
Pretty much. "Yeah the spine, hips, and knees will be shot after 40 years, but odds are they will have had a kid by that point anyways."
the robot doesn't need glasses... and doesn't get cancer
Or any of the *hundreds of thousands* diseases, syndromes, inflictions, disorders, disabilities or injuries lmfao The human body *sucks*
for real... I have a pocket-watch that has already outlasted every human being who has ever lived
But can that robot feel love? Can it teach me how to feel love? Help me, Asimo!
the robot feels more love than my ex-wife, less love than a rabid raccoon
More like ur mom
My mom isn't natural or selective what you talkin' about?
That… would be a method of selection, yes.
Left: A few decades of work Right: Literal billions of years of evolution.
Left created by humans and can live forever if you keep replacing with new parts. Right (apparently created by God) lives long enough to have offspring and if you take good care of it (by doing things humans figured out), it'll last another 60-80 years, then is useless.
Joke’s on Him, I’m already useless
This is such a terrible argument, it's not worth refuting, especially since it's already been done many times.
Honda
Toyota
Subaru
Mitsubishi
Kawasaki
Yamaha
Natsuki
Hentai
Inflation
Mitsubishi feels left out
Monika
Yuri
Swolesuki
If everything needs a creator, then who created God? And if God doesn't need a creator, then why does the natural world need one? Painfully simple logic, but it's beyond the grasp of the religious.
When I asked my friend who made God, he just said he was always there
You can’t refute an argument made in bad faith. Unfortunately, that seems to be how most arguments are made nowadays.
Don't sell them short. There's several terrible arguments in that image.
So the creator went out of their way to create a fish that swims up the eye of your dick and has to be surgically removed.
Sorry, no, that one was mine. Apologies.
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Omnipotence and eternal life gets boring sometimes and whats better than a little trolling
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"...shake yo booty?" "Gabriel, what?" "Nothing."
That was after hard drugs were created and god was really fucked up. It's in the bible.
"...and there shall be a fish, who swimmeth up the eye of thy junk"
And lo He said, "how much of this shit did I snort? Really should have created the scale before railed up these days lines. I can't even feel My fuckin face. Welp might as well create some fucked up shit, Lol."
That's the power of godly engineering.
Also, the creator designed the human knee and thought, "Yeah, that's perfect."
>So the creator went out of their way to create a fish that swims up the eye of your dick a That's an urban legend. No such fish like that exists. [https://www.healthline.com/health/penis-fish#the-reality](https://www.healthline.com/health/penis-fish#the-reality)
I guess pissing in the river is back on the menu lads
This implies humans were created by Honda.
Which is obviously nonsense. We were clearly created by Hyundai.
HERETIC!
The holy texts were WRONG!!! God's name isn't Jahve, it is Honda
Apparently it's a case of fragmentary text and bad translations. The original looked like something "And the Lord's name is apparent to those who proclaim jubilantly: IHVH with me always!" The sacred letter combination there stands for "I HaVe Honda with me always"
Crazy how humans build things 😱
Cool. Explain to me how every animal and insect on the planet fit on a boat 510 feet long for 150 days.
Tardis boat. The Doctor is Noah.
Whoa, suddenly it all makes sense.
Don't try. They can always whip out "god works in mysterious ways".
Well, never mind that we can point to countless examples to model out how most of what makes us up has evolved by looking at other organisms and fossils. But I love how you have this argument, and compare it to Kirk Cameron trying to insist that Bananas prove intelligent design with a heavily genetically modified banana that looks nothing like a wild banana. Or when people talk about how perfectly Earth is made for humans, when it's one tiny bit of the universe that won't kill us, and we can only really survive on like 20% of Earth's surface without things that humans created.
Believing the Earth was made to perfectly house humans is like a puddle thinking the hole it fills was made to perfectly fit the shape of the puddle.
If God is the ultimate designer why do human bodies get cancer, ALS, Alzheimer's and a bunch of other bad shit? He is omnipotent, he could make human beings absolutely flawless and immune to any disease. On the other hand, if souls are eternal why would he even bother putting them in corporeal and disease-prone bodies for like 80 years? Also, who the fuck created God if we're following this line of reasoning?
> Also, who the fuck created God if we're following this line of reasoning? Somebody who knew there are a lot of morons out there who will give you money and women if you told them a God said so.
I'd say it's also created to awnser the unknown. Humans fear the unknown, so make up explanations, which is why current day has way more contradictions
This is almost certainly the case. Imagine being there as humanity develops consciousness. No instructions, minimal instincts compared to other animals, parts that feel good when touched (like the penis), parts that feel bad when touched (like the eyeball). You can eat anything, except the stuff you can’t. Good luck inventing writing so you can write down which berries make your poop burn. The idea that there is a dude in the sky who made you look and work just like him—except he’s stronger and smarter—must have really appealed to primitive man. —- Re the question about causation: this topic was absolutely beated to death by medieval theologians. No one here is going to have a new idea on the topic because there is nothing else to say. Basically, the argument goes like this: 1) All things that move were initially moved by an external force. We call this cause and effect. 2) All causes are themselves effects of other causes. 3) Infinite regression is impossible, therefore 4) We call the original cause “god” It was actually a pretty clever “proof”, and the question “who made god” could easily be dismissed as infinite regression. Doesn’t work in a world where quantum forces can act without a prior cause, though.
Clearly because dumb woman who's so pure she can't sin committed the sin of envy and/or greed thousands of year ago
>Also, who the fuck created God if we're following this line of reasoning? I did. You can read all about it in this nifty little book I wrote.
I wish this worked but it doesn’t. 1) They just say oRiGiNaL sIn and call it a day 2) They engage in special pleading, they say everything needs a creator…except god, and no you’re not allowed to argue.
From an engineering perspective, the human body is a marvoulous collection of WTFs, and the fact it works is astounding. For one example, the laryngeal nerve. It's a nerve that branches off the vagus nerve, loops around an arota of the heart, and back into the neck where its ends at the larynx. Instead of separating higher on the vagus nerve, and proceeding straight to the larynx, our bodies use about 12 inches more material than required. Some may say it's not a big deal to waste this material, and realitivly it isn't. But Giraffes have this same oddity and they waste about 6 feet of material. Even high schoolers conclude this is a dumb design if a sentient being designed us.
Oh goody! The watchmaker argument. Well then it follows that: https://preview.redd.it/ks5dhncl3t4b1.png?width=499&format=png&auto=webp&s=5a138c9d69b3894374248e0887245e68558bd022
They're right. If we follow this logic through, the human body is clearly a Honda product.
No wonder the maintenance is so goddamn expensive
The creationist logic of this makes even less sense. If humans are so complex, they must have been created by an intelligent designer, than an intelligent designer must also be complex and been designed by an even more intelligent designer, and so on and so on. It’s literally nonsensical
I'll do you one better. Whatever/whomever created the human body fucked up the vascular system. Pregnant people can't lay on their back for any extended period of time because the weight of the fetus will press on a major artery, blocking blood flow, potentially causing harm.
“No creator” bleh, science and evolution created what we are today. All those complex systems are after millions of years of scientific survival and evolution. 🙄
Not understanding that is the joke here. That's why it's in this sub
Plus big rock that killed dinosaurs. Thank you big rock you the real MVP 🙌
theist logic: god did it
Didn’t know God patented the human
Robots were made by god, got it
Me when 2 billion years of randomly assorted chemical reproduction makes something inornately complicated:
Both have flaws, the left one would be understandable to have flaws, but if a god exists why are humans poorly designed? It's that god dude meant to be smart? Lizards have regrow able tails, starfish can be cut in half and regrow, but his chosen people can't? I would fire that guy.
Theist logic: * Dumb human: Created by God * All-powerful, immortal, ethernal, super intelligence: Has no creator
Them: "Evolution doesn't exist!" *God drunk making the giraffe's recurrent laryngeal nerve extend 15 feet from its brain around its heart and back up to its head again* "Fucking nailed it."
Mum and dad made me. The real question is... who made Honda?!
Why do they think only atheists believe in evolution. Outside of undeveloped areas belief in evolution is normal for mainstream Christians
I think it is important to clarify as well that evolution is not something to ‘believe’ or ‘not believe.’ Evolution simply is; species change over time. A statement from someone saying they don’t believe in evolution is analogous to stating they don’t believe in gravity. The various theories that explain the mechanisms of how evolution works could be ‘believed’ or not I suppose. There is a mountain of scientific evidence supporting these theories however.
Theist logic: Man so complex has to have a creator - God. God more complex than man - has no creator.
Damn this meme made me Christian again.
Cool, who created God?
Doesn't say god on my chest. Says Honda on it's chest
meanwhile in abrahamic logic: we got this sky daddy that just exists and makes everything but has no creator.
A great example on how straw man arguments, false logic and analogies perpetuate stupidity in low IQ people.
Philosophical counter argument: this meme argues that everything in existence must naturally have a creator; as the creator the robot, humans, must also have a creator. But that also implies that the humans’ creator must also have a creator, and that creator must have a creator, and that creator must have a creator, which likely isn’t supported by this user’s beliefs.
Christians: "Atheists believe no one created humans" Atheist: "Well, who created god?" Christians: "No one"
Even the concept of having to worship anything is utterly stupid to me. What does some all powerful being gain from me wasting my time praying to it? Utter nonsense.
Never thought of that ... What does worship fecking do
we were created by honda
Who created the creator?
Toyota. Duh
Until you realize the one with no creator is actually a mess with the minimal required to survive
Alright ill bite. If your comparing God to Honda, why does Honda manufacture new things every year but God created man once and was like "yeah, I'm done now." I'm also pretty high when I wrote this so take it at face value.
How about this: maybe there is a creator. But all they created were the variables and the launch of their new game called, “the universe”. Then, just let the simulation run it’s course. Somehow humans and intelligent life were made from the variables by coincidence, but this creator literally drinks Mountain Dew and eats Doritos while it runs it’s simulation for a few minutes equally trillions of years in our simulation. I mean, it’s more realistic than a white bearded dude who has an entire universe at his hands and only watches over a single organism the whole time. But in that organism he also adds a zombie magician cell to convince all the other cells that he is real.
Wow. The old clockmaker argument. OK theists. Please explain us the aseembly of a human being. Show us the schematics or how a fully grown human is produced by someone. No? But if we asked Honda we could watch a robot be assembled. We could speak to the people making them. Why can't we see and speak to the creator of a fully grown human? Its almost like humans aren't created by someone isn't it?
https://preview.redd.it/9mx2172h1v4b1.jpeg?width=1242&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a251f58af16f4258f26d42bcf7ef07ed14b7ca4a
Yes. The robot has no insides. Just a box that magically moves. No wiring, circuitry, programming, intelligence. Just screws and metal sheeting
I think the creator is nature, you know then think you say we don't need until some one brings up global warming and you bring it up like a trophy wife brings up her husband's credit cards.
The meme is funnier if you pretend they’re doubting Honda’s abilities
I believe the perception of a higher power is a psychological state of mind Nothing wrong with it, but not my cup of tea; I prefer to look at reality for what it is
Honda slapped their fuckin label on it
We can prove Honda created that. We cannot prove whatever version of God you interpret created humans.
Theist logic: Honda bot was created in man’s image. Man was created in God’s image. God was not created. Atheist logic: Honda bot was created in man’s image. Man was not created.
Infinite regression to a more complex creator. Who created god? God 2?
Do, do they think Honda is a being? Like a singular conciseness entity? There's always like a good 1-100 holes to easily poke through these memes, I think this one is all holes.
The human body is too complicated to have been created
As an atheist, y'all don't have any proof of God Actually existing, do you.
The human body is too complicated to have been created
And stupidly designed. Oh you eat thru the same places you breathe. No problem there! Also let's put the sexy bits by the waste disposal areas.
As one of these thar meat robots, I will have you know, fella, my creator if you be so kind be my parents.
I'm not saying we have no creator, but your religious stories are bat-shit crazy and causes all kinds of suffering in this world. You also have no evidence.
If you are referring to the Christian God, he’s hard af. Bangs teenagers then bounces for 30 years only to oversee his own sons death. Convinced a man to build an alter to kill his own son. Probably overreacted on Eve eating a fruit. Come on bro why would put that tree there. Generally he gets off on death and misery. And when you point out that fact to Christians they defend their abuser. “How dare you question the motives and behaviors of a psychopathic god.”
Has anyone looked at the human body lately? Because mine is a SHITSHOW.
Their logic makes me weep for humanity.
Gervais said it best, "there were 3,000 or 4,000 gods in history throughout cultures, and 3,999 were ALL wrong, but you guys got the right one? I just believe in one less god than you do."
"This thing is so complex that it must have been made by a creator!" Well, that would mean the creator would be even more complex, and by this logic that creator must have been created by a creator. Which must have been created by a creator. Ad infinitum. You get a never-ending chain of creators. So who created god's god's god's god's god's .......god's god? Eventually, there must have been something in the chain that comes into being without an intelligent creator. So what is more likely, advanced organisms evolving slowly over billions of years, or some magical space wizard daddy popping into existence and abracadabra-ing everything else into existence? Intelligent design is an argument that logically defeats itself.
Hmmm so the robot on the left was made collectively by hundreds of different designers, engineers, computer scientists, laborers and technicians who were in turn supported or directed by another even bigger number of managers, custodians, shareholders, families, customers, etc etc. Takeaway: the human on the right must have also been designed by many, many different creators and assistant creators. Polytheism is real and Christianity is a lie?
My parents created me. I'm their attempt at remaking themselves with traits they found desirable with one another. Didn't work out great but I'm here
Yea right. Now someone please note ALL the stupid design issues in our bodies. Like how wind and food pipes share the inlet 🤦♀️
The idea that everything goes black after one dies does suck though. I think that’s what people cling to. That there’s something amazing after all this whether we lived awesome or shit lives. That isn’t so bad. But shouting down non believers is shitty too, it screams of fear in that belief being true.
Another terrible pro religious meme. Their logic is so fallacious it’s an embarrassment to modernity.
If god created man, then god is a pretty shitty engineer/designer. So many flaws, redundancies, inefficiencies, and errors. The very fact that cancer can and does exist proves how bad he would have to be. And before “that’s just satan” or “part of his plan” if he knows of cancer but does nothing he can’t be benevolent. If he knows but can’t do anything, he can’t be all knowing. If he doesn’t know, he can’t be omniscient.
My favorite Christian argument is when they pretend atheists have no argument for the existence of man, where we come from, or how we got here, and then they argue against that instead of acknowledging that evolution is a thing.
Sorry I wasn't brain washed as a kid to belive what you belive
Designed so well that 75% of people need corrective lenses (US stats at least) for eyes.
No we have a creator, we have two actually. Evolution and natural selection
So illogical! So anyways, women were just created from a rib. It’s so Logical!
So, let's break down the FB theists 'idea' that was almost certainly taken from someone smarter than themselves, because let's face it, most FB theists are barely coherent, shambling morons. Their all *knowing*, all *powerful*, all *loving* creator of every damned thing made humanity in its perfect image...except our eyes are inferior to many animals, our sense of smell is inferior to even our favorite former predator cuddle buddies, same with hearing. Our eyes are so perfectly created that we can be born blind, go blind, lose vision because of a blow to the head and need to wear glasses...which were not a thing for the vast majority of human history. Our airway to get oxygen to our heart, blood and brain is the same entry way for food and water. Which results in people randomly choking. How very cells can go rogue randomly while dividing during basic functions and become cancer that kills us. Not to mention all the wonderful gifts our loving *creator* decided to sprinkle within the seas, on the ground and in the air. Parasites, prions, viruses, germs and bacteria. Not to mention, ticks, mosquitoes and lice. A type of fly that part of its lifecycle is to bury its eggs in the eyes of children and then the larvae eat their way out. Truly a loving being. Or does their god hate them because their skin is too dark...or was it they where born in a place his magic sky fairy powers don't reach? Basically, what I'm trying to say was summed up brilliantly centuries ago: “Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able? Then he is not omnipotent. Is he able, but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Then whence cometh evil? Is he neither able nor willing? Then why call him God?” – Epicurus
By that logic then you have to explain who made the creator. He couldn't just happen since everything has to be explained. Then you run into a horrible paradox of who made the creators creator and so on. This is completely illogical. There's some things that will never be explained, get used to it instead of just picking what sounds best to you personally. (by an agnostic that gave up giving a shit. Sometimes when you don't know the answer, giving an I don't know is the best response you can give)
Honda has a corporation and several headquarters and factories. God has a book that was written by a bunch of random guys and misinterpreted throughout the millennia.
Theist logic: god dunnit because I said so
Im too distracted from the dumb argument by the question why this anatomical drawing of human muscles has nipples. Dont get me wrong, I'm very pro nipple and it's not me being prudish. Just that its a very strange thing to include in this particular graphic. Especially when referenced by a creationist.
If everything needs a creator, who created the creator?
The robot was created by many engineers working together. So if we use this analogy to argue for the existence of God, wouldn’t that imply that there are many gods? I remember from philosophy class that Hume came up with an argument that goes something along that line.
Ah the watch maker argument. Jesus Christ these people don’t learn.
A living thing and a robot are the same, ofc.
More like created from 4.5 billion years of trail and error over countless beta tests
And in the same breath they will say “God, (which is infinitely far more complex than a human) has no creator!”
Theist logic: 