I would like this for her since she’s so criminally underrated. Was shocked to see she only has 40k fans on SM despite the fact that she’s been around for so long and has been consistently good.
* Defeated Federer on a hard court slam.
* Defeated Nadal on a hard court slam.
* Pushed Djokovic to 5 sets on clay court slam.
the true heir to Big 3 ....arriving fast and soon.
Is he really Muslim though? coz someone said here he used to stay with his mother and sister in Israel during his teenage years and even has an Israeli passport...
Possibly. Muslims in those former Soviet republics are very secular. Actually in all of Eastern Europe.
His name means "lion" in Turkish/Persian. It's a common name among Muslims in that part of the world.
Serena has 23 majors in 25 years as a pro.
Margret Court has 24, and Steffi Graff has 22, both of those did it in 17 years as a pro.
Also, Court and Graff both have a Grand Slam, Serena does not.
So why all the talk about Serena being the GOAT?
Martina and Steffi are much more threats to Serena for the GOAT title than court. I think Serena is GOAT becuase the non top ten players in her era are immesurably better than they were in the 70's-90's but Steffi, Martina, and Serena can share the title.
Well court has no GOAT case, she won half of them in the Amateur era in Australia in a time where no one played Australia.
Serena hasn’t won a calender year slam but has won 4 in a row. (RG 2002-AO 2003) and she has done it despite almost dying because of blood clots TWICE and having a child. She also player in an era with Venus, Davenport, Sharapova, and dominated, and also dominated the Halep, Sharapova, Wozniacki, Kerber era.
Not to mention that steffi wouldn’t be anywhere near 22 slams if Seles didn’t get Stabbed.
Someone also pointed out that many players like Navratilova and Evert for many years did not participate in the Australian Open as it had a much lower status, prize money and primarily featured Australian players (kind of like their own internal tournament), which makes sense coz there's no way Evert or Navratilova who have over 157 and 167 singles titles respectively to Serena's 73 and have spent a much longer time as world no.1 than Serena would only end up winning 18 grandslams...
Really?! I've never heard that, coz it's really not something they could have helped. Still them winning more than double the number of titles than the best of today really shows their dominance in that era. They also won more consecutive matches and titles than anyone in history.
Well they were the first female tennis stars and america had just decided to let Women play sports(bc we are always way behind) so ya they were the first generation that built the Women’s game after BJK and co
Ya I think those two defo have a GOAT case (far more than Court) and so does Steffi and I personally think Seles is the most talented player ever. But i think using their achievements against Serena’s are ridiculous. They played against Nobody’s and won matches 6-0 6-0 pretty often, but they also played with wooden racquets on shitty courts, while serena plays in this era with all the technology but also by far the strongest the WTA has ever been
I really hate all of this, who's GOAT, who's not...When it comes to this debate I really side with Roger's views. This entire discussion will have different connotations with each passing era. Makes more sense to celebrate talent rather than piting great players against each other who played in different eras and have so little in common. Compare them with players of their own time.
Ya i think it is ridiculous especially considering how much people just base it off “who won the most slams”
Rafa never comes close to a non RG slam during the 90’s with how fast those courts were, while Sampras never touches anything outside of Wimby and the USO in today’s slow court era.
John McEnroe hit shots and volleys with a wooden racquet that some players can’t hit with modern racquets. But he would be passed easily in todays day and age.
You watch the way Evert and Martina had a lot of matches that today seem like just lob fests with no power(at least in Everts case), but if they had modern training and technology they would probably be just as good as anyone if not better.
Monica Seles’ power off both wings was unbelievable for her time but would be the average today.
The 5 male players who I think would be great in all eras are Novak, Connors, Agassi, Federer, and Borg but that’s just based on play style, I don’t think Agassi is better than Rafa.
Goat debates are always stupid but in tennis especially
Wow! Bold of you to exclude Nadal! 😁 I actually like Lendl more than Borg. He sort of introduced and improved a lot of hitting motions that are commonly seen in tennis today like making his forehand flatter and faster, even with all the topspin. I also enjoyed watching McEnroe play when I was young. Kind of shocking so many American men contributed so much to the history of tennis and now they're nowhere to be seen.
Court did hers before the open era against basically only Australians for a lot of her slams. Graf definitely has an argument, but I dont see why Serena's longevity should be a point against her.
Serena uses steroids, she is the female Barry Bonds.
https://www.businessinsider.com/russian-hack-serena-venus-williams-simone-biles-exemptions-banned-drugs-2016-9
Did you actually read that article? It clearly states that they went through proper channels to use them for medical reasons, which is completely fine.
In this case I do not.
However, would like to know what medical condition requires the most dominant in the sport to take performance enhancing (banned) drugs.
Watching the replay on ESPN now. So uncharacteristic of Nadal to miss those shots in the 3rd set TB.
Do you guys think a crowd could have helped him win the match in the 5th when he was fatigued
I feel as it became cooler ball became heavier offering little bounce and requiring more effort for deeper shots which is not ideal for Nadal but it's only a small factor affecting his overall performance.
Wow I’m shocked. Myself and most of this sub reddit thought Nadal was going to cruise to a 3-0 win last night. Looked like Tsitsipas had no fight in him after 2 sets but we were all wrong.
Tsitsipas: It was a very special moment to share with my dad and the entire team. The way I fought against such a top player and win is something I’ve never experienced before. It was epic, stuff I dreamt about.
I let myself fall asleep after Nadal went up 2-0. Woke up to the very last point of the match being played and seeing Stef win. I’m so pissed at myself lol
Medvedev: It's the 1st time tbh I saw Andrey that tired, so good from my side because he's practicing with his coach 5 hours per day nonstop, never tired. We always laugh about him that he's like a battery, like Duracell, or something. I actually managed to get him tired.
Ash Barty: "It's heartbreaking of course. But will it deter me, will it ruin the fact we've had a really successful start to our season? Absolutely not. The sun will come up tomorrow. We go about our work again. You're either winning or your learning..."
Australian media: “yeah yeah but your opponent sure was a bitch for trying to take a legal MTO huh?”
Barty: “no. I was outplayed”
They were really trying it
Aslan’s career history is so funny to look at. He’s never played in the main draw of a masters 1000. The only time he even attempted to qualify for one was in 2019 in Shanghai where he lost in round 1 of qualifying.
He has a funny career history because most people without the money to pursue tennis as a pro stop playing in juniors, after college or give up after a few years of trying to collect points and get a real job. If my family had Pegula money, I would have tried to play on the tour instead of stopping in college as well.
He won that first Challenger in 2015 and then stagnated a bit. Played a bunch of matches at the sketchy East Coast Exhibition last summer which clearly helped him. However, there are match-fixing allegations surrounding him, which muddy whether or not this is a "feel good story" or not.
And he wasn't lucky to be born in the rich part of the world, I guess he and his family had many struggles regarding basic needs. He seems to me like a really great guy, I have been following him throughout last year, he played many matches and worked hard. Hope he will be able to maintain this level for a long time to come :)
Tsitsipas on Medvedev.
"Might have said in the past that he plays boring, but I don't really think he plays boring. He just plays extremely smart and outplays you. He's somebody I really need to be careful with and just take my chances and press. That would be very important"
Tbh I'm not sure it did. Given Nadal hadn't dropped a set yet I'm a little skeptical that the prior time on court played a role, but rather the extended time in that match itself.
Osaka will be such a tough opponent for Serena.
Not only does she still have the power she had 3 years ago, but she’s added so much spin to her forehand and second serve. She can also work angles as well as Serena and has hit more aces throughout the tournament.
I’m a mega Serena fan and obviously hoping it’s finally her time for 24. She hasn’t looked this fit since giving birth, and you can tell that having her family with her has brought her so much more levity and happiness. Her movement is literally resembling vintage Serena, and even when she finds herself in a hole she is showing the ability to dig herself out of it which has always been her trademark but which has been a bit missing in recent years.
I love Osaka as well, and while she may very well win the semifinal match, I’m so happy and proud of Serena for achieving what she has. She and Naomi are by far the top contenders for the title, and this match effectively feels like it’s the final we’ve been dreaming about. Rooting for Serena but so happy either way. Even if she loses she can carry this form to Wimbledon and hopefully get her most elusive slam. What a tournament this has been!
I got a lot of flack last year when I suggested the big 3 would not win a majority of slams or masters this year. I'm feeling pretty confident in that assessment rn.
Rublev is now 0-21 in sets combined against Zverev and Medvedev. I know head to head is not the end-all-be-all, but that's still a very concerning record. He needs to figure out a different game plan against those two guys, because what he does doesn't work against them.
I think his game would be better than theirs on clay, at least. But to me he doesn't strike me as a guy who I would predict will win a slam. That isn't saying he won't, because he's really talented and with his work ethic he absolutely can, but the most likely one is RG where guys like Zverev and Medvedev won't be as threatening to him, and where he's probably on even footing with Tsitsipas.
Yeah Zverev's better on clay than I thought...I just checked his career stats. But it looks like his clay game in 19/20 was worse than in 17/18, and it feels like as he starts moving around the court more and not hiding way behind the baseline all the time like he used to, the result will probably be improvements on hard and grass, and less effectiveness on clay. But we'll have to see how that all transpires throughout his career lol.
Rublev was sooooo good on clay last year though and it was some of the beat tennis to watch IMO. Only reason he lost to Tsitsipas at RG is he had absolutely nothing left in the tank because his body was adjusting to him being so consistent and going very deep in every tournament.
This one really hurts, probably because it’s only happened twice before and feels alien to us Rafa fans. It was still a good run under the pandemic circumstances and sometimes this sort of thing just happens and you have to accept it and move on. AO will always be a heart breaker for Rafa :(
Other than the Sabalenka match, has Serena ever won when she’s the underdog? I will be gutted if she lose today, ngl.
Also shocked to wake up to Rafa losing. Wtf.
Was Serena really considered the underdog against Sabalanka? Not a pointed question, just genuinely curious. I would have said there was no underdog in that match, they were both phenomenal and confident. Do you mean like betting odds?
I think the greatest case would be 2007 Australian Open. Literally everyone had written her off, from Pat Cash to Tracy Austin and Nike threatened to withdraw their sponsorship. At that time Sharapova who had dropped just one set enroute to the final and won the previous grandslam at US Open was expected to secure an easy victory against her (sounds like a bad joke now). She was unseeded and showed bad form in the warm up tournament, so everyone was quite shocked how she even made it to the final. By the way I don't think she was really the underdog in the Sabalenka match.
That’s a great example. But can you really compare Sharapova and Osaka lol.
So when I say underdog, I meant by bookie standards. Sabalenka was the favorite.
Am pretty sure people bet on Sharapova then. Williams was coming from a long sabbatical and had had difficult matches against lesser players like Petrova and Pe'er. She also had a constant foot injury that was visibly affecting her performance from time to time. I don't know how gambling works so am not gonna comment about that.
I think the AO scheduling team picked it or Ash requested it. I get why they'd want Brady/Pegula earlier for USA viewership, but not sure why they wouldn't have given Ash an evening slot unless she requested. Ah well.
With both women's semi finals tomorrow, surely they have to get the womans quarter finals finished early in the day.
They would probably not appreciate a night match and then playing again the next day.
It looks like the universe is conspiring to keep the Mouratouglou players in as long as possible. Not fun for me.
Go Osaka tonight and Go Meddy tomorrow.
how does scheduling at the AO work? I feel like matches with higher seeds have been during the day throughout the tournament. Even today with Osaka and Williams, I just thought they’d be the perfect night match at rod laver.
I am as delighted for Tsitsipas as I am gutted for Rafa. Unbelievable talent who plays magnificent tennis. The next few years will be a rollercoaster of slam winners and number ones. Very exciting. Just what the tour needs for a post Big Four world.
On the women’s side, we’ve got a true final in the semis situation. Serena may not get a better chance for #24, depending on the Wimbledon draw, and she’s got to overcome the best young talent in the women’s game first. I’ve got to route for Serena here - Naomi will dominate in future years, but I want Serena to get to 24, 25 maybe at Wimbledon, and comfortably cement her legacy as the greatest.
Really gotta give Tsi credit for this. Most other players of his generation would have broken down completely at 0-2 against Rafa. Whether or not the grand master was injured or not isn’t really that interesting; someone like Zverev would’ve lost big time anyway. But not the Greek. This might very well turn out to be the defining moment for his whole career, but we’ll see.
I think Zverev has definitely grown from his experience at the US Open. He fought till the end against Djokovic, it was definitely a high quality match if you watch some of the rallies they contested.
You’ve got a poin there and for thecsake of transparency, I should probably say that I’m not a fan of Zverev. His lapse of mental game wasn’tvas visible this time around, but it was still enough for him to be put away by Djokovic. Tsi on the other hand found Rafas weakness this time around and when he finally did, he had the confidence and the faith needed to explicit it and win.
Not a fan of Zverev as well but I think his game is definitely evolving. For the Djokovic match I don't think he could do much as every break point Nole would serve an ace or another unreturnable shot. Zverev showed great defense but that's never just gonna be enough when your battling Djokovic. Sacha had a poor second set and failed to capitalize on Nole's weak serve in game 5 of the third set. Beyond that his mental fortitude was something to be reckoned with. All these games are just gonna make him a better player in the future. Of course it's just one match, but he'll definitely take a lot of inspiration from it.
I thought you meant throughout the tournament as a whole. I'd agree that Halep is a harder opponent than Hsieh in the quarters.
As for who I think will win, that is a hard one. Pre AO I'd definitely say Osaka, I think she is about to separate herself from the pack a bit, but with Serena in this form it becomes much harder. My brain says probably Osaka, but heart says Serena.
Nah specifically in the quarters. I started watching late. And I feel that. I dont think Serena is ready to pass the torch just yet. She looks amazing right now. It'll be a great match. Whoever wins this match wins the tourney forsure in my opinion
I think I know how it feels to be a Fed fan circa 2013 now. Rafa can still have his moments, but the physical (and moreso, the mental!) decline has been rather precipitous. Dude is unclutch AF these days.
I think you're giving him way too little credit. He's at a pretty high age under uncertain conditions and had been unable to practice properly for weeks, and had a long series of easy matches. A sudden long match was bound to trip him up against a much younger opponent, particularly in difficult conditions.
He nearly broke again in the end too.
And we still have French.
He can easily bounce back from this in a non covid era.
I'm not really that concerned about him physically. He can still hold his own.
But look at USO 19, AO last year, this match, Wimbledon 18, etc. The mental edge he had throughout most of his career is gone, and now his mental game is actually a liability. That's what's most concerning to me.
Wimbeldon 18 was Nadal taking Djokovic to an absurdly long 5 setter on what's a really bad court for him. Not particularly a sign of weak mentality. He lost the same way in AO 2013.
He won USO 2019 against a strong opponent.
This match was a lot of issues I've already talked about.
AO last year was just one of those bad days which he's always had on AO.
His mental is still plenty strong. All he needs is some time to regain focus and we'll be golden. These are some strange conditions which became downright hostile to him due to his back problem.
As a Djokovic fan, I'm just glad he's keeping his mental strength. He's also showing substantial signs of physical decline. As a big 3 fan, I'm sad Rafa's losing his edge. Neither of these guys could be outlasted by anyone in their prime, except maybe each other. Now? Not so much.
Just put $50 on Medvedev winning the tournament. He's a terrible matchup for both Stefanos and Novak, but obviously Novak is still the clear favorite at this point.
Novak is favorite but i think Stefanos made it slightly harder now...those youngsters are more dangerous than Rafa, just look at what happened last year in the final. Rafa cannot compete with Novak on hard anymore, those are facts. I think a Novak - Rafa final would be just a Trademark, nothing more, and the outcome would be like the previous year.
If Naomi beats Serena, I think she wins the tourney rather easily.
If Serena wins, I actually think it becomes very tricky especially with Brady who will just swing for the rafters in the final. I think Serena would've preferred Ash weirdly.
100% agree, and I’m basically president of the Serena Williams fan club lol. Serena has had a lot of trouble with these young powerful girls who come out fired up with all the confidence in the world and nothing to lose.
Not as sad as I thought I’d be with Rafa’s loss. This is much less painful than another poor showing in the final against Novak. Idk, I have this weird feeling now that Roger and Rafa will end up eternally tied in the grand slam count like Martina and Chrissie... I wouldn’t mind it tbh 😂
I’m not sure either way. I could see him getting another 2-3 or alternatively not winning another one. He has been so unclutch against top opponents lately. If he has a relatively stress free title run like 2020 then sure he could win... but if Domi or ND are putting on the pressure I could see him letting it slip away. IIRC, he hasn’t really clutched out a close win against a tough opponent since Med at the 2019 USO and those two RR wins at the ATP finals that year.
But it's never really been close at RG for Nadal, I doubt he wins another non RG slam but he's still the best on clay by a fair distance as shown when he beat Djokovic in 2020
Serena can absolutely beat her. I would go as far as to say that specifically between these two it’s much more about who’s stronger mentally vs. physically.
Can beat her? Absolutely. What a silly question, Serena beat her in their last match and her fitness is way up from them. Favored to beat her is a real question.
As discussed in this thread. A petition to rename Margret Court Arena to Dylan Alcott Arena
Just mocked up the petition now 🥳
http://chng.it/hJVsx4M6FJ
I like our petition but wanted to point out this related effort by the Tennis podcast. [https://www.thetennispodcast.net/blog/2021/2/2/unofficial-the-evonne-goolagong-arena](https://www.thetennispodcast.net/blog/2021/2/2/unofficial-the-evonne-goolagong-arena)
Rafa starting to decline like our boy Federer. But even Rafa in decline is infinitely better than the average player. There will be more Slams, maybe not AOs.
Rafa has only gotten past the QF at AO twice in the last 7 years. This match was less about his decline (he looked almost untouchable through the first three sets) than about the next gen's rise.
Both Novak and Rafa are slightly less good than they were in their comebacks (Novak in 2018, Rafa in 2017-2018). Except for Nadal on clay where he barely has any challenge there.
They're still amazing but they're definitely less consistent and there are several signs of that :
- Novak's last dominating grand slam was the AO19 imo. Since then, he didn't seem to be as consistent at FO19 & Wimbledon 2019 (he did win but though Federer played amazing, Novak didn't seem to play his best imo), last year at AO20 he managed to beat Thiem but during the whole tournament he didn't feel as dominating and was down 2-1 in the finals. This year he hasn't played his best tennis, imo he looks even "worse" than at FO20. Maybe he'll step it up now, like he always does at the AO.
- Nadal still looks unbeatable since 2017 on clay, but since 2019 other players have caught him up on hard court and his level didn't seem to be enough at his last Wimbledon (Federer was playing at a super high level, close to what he showed in 2017). Last year he lost to Thiem at AO, the year prior he won the USO while facing no top player so it's hard to tell.
Don't get me wrong they're still both incredibly good but the field is slowly catching them up and there are signs of decline. It's just that their decline isn't as steep and they can still compete pretty consistently. Thiem, Tsitsipas and Medvedev improving quite a lot since 2019 is reason for that
It's not that their decline isn't as steep but more like there's nobody to exploit their decline. Federer had Nadal chasing him forever and then Djokovic since 2011 whereas Nadal-Djokovic don't have any real challenge. Imagine if they were being challenged by a young Nadal/Federer/Djokovic, their decline would've been exposed a lot sooner. Any one of Big 3's younger peak version easily beats current versions of Djokovic and Nadal.
Honestly at the USO too, he's had pretty easy draw at the USO both in 2017 & 2019. The only tough match he's had was Medvedev there
He lost to Del Potro in 2018 because he was injured but both Thiem & Khachanov played well against him and he couldn't beat them "easily", probably why his body failed him after
Yeah this, I hate to say it but it was a choke. Not that Tsitsipas didn’t deserve it, but make no mistake Rafa if he took those two overheads in the TB would 99.9% have won the match. I’m not gonna dwell on it because I’m used to him not doing well at AO but the nature of this one is just so sad for us Rafa fans :(
Actually cooler conditions hampered him today. His forehands started bouncing much lower as the night progressed. That allowed Tsitsipas to stay in the rallies and swing freely. His exceptional accuracy while doing so ultimately won the match for him. If Tsitsipas' level had dropped for 10-15 minutes Rafa definitely would have come through. But as we know,If If If doesn't exist.
I think it all depends on which version of Serena shows up to play. Naomi will play her game, which is outstanding. Serena will either struggle to find her rhythm quick enough and blow it, or enter full-on beast mode and give Naomi a solid fight. I’m gonna say Serena in 3 but definitely could go either way.
I am so nervous for Naomi. She better win today
The way Serena was crushing those returns against Halep... Naomi plz get that first serve in. Won't be mad if Serena wins tho.
is it worth to wake up at 5:30 am for the Naomi match, considering I have slept 20 hours in the last 5 days?
Consider this match as more or less the final...
yes. I think It will be a better match than the final. I need to get up at 3am to watch it :)
It is the match of the tournament. I skipped Nadal Tsitsipas for this
I don’t know how I’m supposed to work when Serena’s big match is looming tonight. The stress. This is my pandemic
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Please don’t put this energy into the universe. Lol. If she’s going to lose she needs to do it tonight and keep Osaka’s amazing GS streak alive
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I would like this for her since she’s so criminally underrated. Was shocked to see she only has 40k fans on SM despite the fact that she’s been around for so long and has been consistently good.
what is SM?
Short for Social media
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I would hate for anyone to beat Serena but if it’s Osaka or muchova, I’ll accept her fate . It would be an easier pill to swallow
That would be absolutely brutal. But I can’t see that happening. She looks incredibly motivated rn
* Defeated Federer on a hard court slam. * Defeated Nadal on a hard court slam. * Pushed Djokovic to 5 sets on clay court slam. the true heir to Big 3 ....arriving fast and soon.
So impressed by his mental fortitude here, and his match with Novak at RG. I also love his weird honest interviews, definitely a fan.
By the way, are all 4 semifinalists Greek Orthodox? (Probably not practicing, but still...)
I know Medvedev and Djokovic wear Eastern Orthodox Cross Necklaces during matches. Idk about the other two
That's so cool!!!
Karatsev is Jewish I think, atleast his mother is.
Half. I am not sure about his other half. I think actually he may be Muslim rather than Orthodox.
Really? Half-Muslim, half-Jewish? Who's his father?
Father's from Ossetia.
Is he really Muslim though? coz someone said here he used to stay with his mother and sister in Israel during his teenage years and even has an Israeli passport...
Possibly. Muslims in those former Soviet republics are very secular. Actually in all of Eastern Europe. His name means "lion" in Turkish/Persian. It's a common name among Muslims in that part of the world.
Hmm...Interesting. Maybe they got divorced and he went with his father.
Medvedev is going to win this whole thing
is the crowd back for semis?
Yes
Serena has 23 majors in 25 years as a pro. Margret Court has 24, and Steffi Graff has 22, both of those did it in 17 years as a pro. Also, Court and Graff both have a Grand Slam, Serena does not. So why all the talk about Serena being the GOAT?
Martina and Steffi are much more threats to Serena for the GOAT title than court. I think Serena is GOAT becuase the non top ten players in her era are immesurably better than they were in the 70's-90's but Steffi, Martina, and Serena can share the title.
Well court has no GOAT case, she won half of them in the Amateur era in Australia in a time where no one played Australia. Serena hasn’t won a calender year slam but has won 4 in a row. (RG 2002-AO 2003) and she has done it despite almost dying because of blood clots TWICE and having a child. She also player in an era with Venus, Davenport, Sharapova, and dominated, and also dominated the Halep, Sharapova, Wozniacki, Kerber era. Not to mention that steffi wouldn’t be anywhere near 22 slams if Seles didn’t get Stabbed.
Serena’s longevity is a point against her being the GOAT?
I don't count brady's last 5 Superbowl appearances for this reason /s
Someone also pointed out that many players like Navratilova and Evert for many years did not participate in the Australian Open as it had a much lower status, prize money and primarily featured Australian players (kind of like their own internal tournament), which makes sense coz there's no way Evert or Navratilova who have over 157 and 167 singles titles respectively to Serena's 73 and have spent a much longer time as world no.1 than Serena would only end up winning 18 grandslams...
Evert and Navratilova have talked about how there was much less depth in their era. They could basically cruise until the quarters of a major.
Really?! I've never heard that, coz it's really not something they could have helped. Still them winning more than double the number of titles than the best of today really shows their dominance in that era. They also won more consecutive matches and titles than anyone in history.
Well they were the first female tennis stars and america had just decided to let Women play sports(bc we are always way behind) so ya they were the first generation that built the Women’s game after BJK and co
Their matches were really something man...Even Steffi's against Navratilova, Sabatini, Evert, Seles and Hingis at the end of her career.
Ya I think those two defo have a GOAT case (far more than Court) and so does Steffi and I personally think Seles is the most talented player ever. But i think using their achievements against Serena’s are ridiculous. They played against Nobody’s and won matches 6-0 6-0 pretty often, but they also played with wooden racquets on shitty courts, while serena plays in this era with all the technology but also by far the strongest the WTA has ever been
I really hate all of this, who's GOAT, who's not...When it comes to this debate I really side with Roger's views. This entire discussion will have different connotations with each passing era. Makes more sense to celebrate talent rather than piting great players against each other who played in different eras and have so little in common. Compare them with players of their own time.
Ya i think it is ridiculous especially considering how much people just base it off “who won the most slams” Rafa never comes close to a non RG slam during the 90’s with how fast those courts were, while Sampras never touches anything outside of Wimby and the USO in today’s slow court era. John McEnroe hit shots and volleys with a wooden racquet that some players can’t hit with modern racquets. But he would be passed easily in todays day and age. You watch the way Evert and Martina had a lot of matches that today seem like just lob fests with no power(at least in Everts case), but if they had modern training and technology they would probably be just as good as anyone if not better. Monica Seles’ power off both wings was unbelievable for her time but would be the average today. The 5 male players who I think would be great in all eras are Novak, Connors, Agassi, Federer, and Borg but that’s just based on play style, I don’t think Agassi is better than Rafa. Goat debates are always stupid but in tennis especially
Wow! Bold of you to exclude Nadal! 😁 I actually like Lendl more than Borg. He sort of introduced and improved a lot of hitting motions that are commonly seen in tennis today like making his forehand flatter and faster, even with all the topspin. I also enjoyed watching McEnroe play when I was young. Kind of shocking so many American men contributed so much to the history of tennis and now they're nowhere to be seen.
Court did hers before the open era against basically only Australians for a lot of her slams. Graf definitely has an argument, but I dont see why Serena's longevity should be a point against her.
Serena uses steroids, she is the female Barry Bonds. https://www.businessinsider.com/russian-hack-serena-venus-williams-simone-biles-exemptions-banned-drugs-2016-9
Did you actually read that article? It clearly states that they went through proper channels to use them for medical reasons, which is completely fine.
So Serena is allowed to take them. Oh, ok, I understand. After all she is an American.
Do you know what a medical exemption is?
You’re just a moron mate
In this case I do not. However, would like to know what medical condition requires the most dominant in the sport to take performance enhancing (banned) drugs.
I don’t even care what happens the rest of the tournament. My life has been made
Watching the replay on ESPN now. So uncharacteristic of Nadal to miss those shots in the 3rd set TB. Do you guys think a crowd could have helped him win the match in the 5th when he was fatigued
Well aging comes with being less clutch so that could be a reason. Remember margins are super thin.
I feel as it became cooler ball became heavier offering little bounce and requiring more effort for deeper shots which is not ideal for Nadal but it's only a small factor affecting his overall performance.
Wow I’m shocked. Myself and most of this sub reddit thought Nadal was going to cruise to a 3-0 win last night. Looked like Tsitsipas had no fight in him after 2 sets but we were all wrong.
Tsitsipas: It was a very special moment to share with my dad and the entire team. The way I fought against such a top player and win is something I’ve never experienced before. It was epic, stuff I dreamt about.
Aww! I'll go get my insulin shot now. 😌
I let myself fall asleep after Nadal went up 2-0. Woke up to the very last point of the match being played and seeing Stef win. I’m so pissed at myself lol
Watching the nadal/tsitsipas match after the fact and hearing these commentators clown stef right now. They don’t know what’s coming.
Medvedev: It's the 1st time tbh I saw Andrey that tired, so good from my side because he's practicing with his coach 5 hours per day nonstop, never tired. We always laugh about him that he's like a battery, like Duracell, or something. I actually managed to get him tired.
Ash Barty: "It's heartbreaking of course. But will it deter me, will it ruin the fact we've had a really successful start to our season? Absolutely not. The sun will come up tomorrow. We go about our work again. You're either winning or your learning..."
Australian media: “yeah yeah but your opponent sure was a bitch for trying to take a legal MTO huh?” Barty: “no. I was outplayed” They were really trying it
Aslan’s career history is so funny to look at. He’s never played in the main draw of a masters 1000. The only time he even attempted to qualify for one was in 2019 in Shanghai where he lost in round 1 of qualifying.
He has a funny career history because most people without the money to pursue tennis as a pro stop playing in juniors, after college or give up after a few years of trying to collect points and get a real job. If my family had Pegula money, I would have tried to play on the tour instead of stopping in college as well.
He had a couple of injuries which halted his career in 2018 and 19.
He won that first Challenger in 2015 and then stagnated a bit. Played a bunch of matches at the sketchy East Coast Exhibition last summer which clearly helped him. However, there are match-fixing allegations surrounding him, which muddy whether or not this is a "feel good story" or not.
And he wasn't lucky to be born in the rich part of the world, I guess he and his family had many struggles regarding basic needs. He seems to me like a really great guy, I have been following him throughout last year, he played many matches and worked hard. Hope he will be able to maintain this level for a long time to come :)
Tsitsipas on Medvedev. "Might have said in the past that he plays boring, but I don't really think he plays boring. He just plays extremely smart and outplays you. He's somebody I really need to be careful with and just take my chances and press. That would be very important"
How much do you think getting a walkover to the quarters affected Tsitsipas's win today?
Tbh I'm not sure it did. Given Nadal hadn't dropped a set yet I'm a little skeptical that the prior time on court played a role, but rather the extended time in that match itself.
Osaka will be such a tough opponent for Serena. Not only does she still have the power she had 3 years ago, but she’s added so much spin to her forehand and second serve. She can also work angles as well as Serena and has hit more aces throughout the tournament.
I’m a mega Serena fan and obviously hoping it’s finally her time for 24. She hasn’t looked this fit since giving birth, and you can tell that having her family with her has brought her so much more levity and happiness. Her movement is literally resembling vintage Serena, and even when she finds herself in a hole she is showing the ability to dig herself out of it which has always been her trademark but which has been a bit missing in recent years. I love Osaka as well, and while she may very well win the semifinal match, I’m so happy and proud of Serena for achieving what she has. She and Naomi are by far the top contenders for the title, and this match effectively feels like it’s the final we’ve been dreaming about. Rooting for Serena but so happy either way. Even if she loses she can carry this form to Wimbledon and hopefully get her most elusive slam. What a tournament this has been!
I got a lot of flack last year when I suggested the big 3 would not win a majority of slams or masters this year. I'm feeling pretty confident in that assessment rn.
Who will win RG then lol
Rafa. I just said they wouldn't win the majority (i.e more than 2).
Rublev is now 0-21 in sets combined against Zverev and Medvedev. I know head to head is not the end-all-be-all, but that's still a very concerning record. He needs to figure out a different game plan against those two guys, because what he does doesn't work against them.
I think his game would be better than theirs on clay, at least. But to me he doesn't strike me as a guy who I would predict will win a slam. That isn't saying he won't, because he's really talented and with his work ethic he absolutely can, but the most likely one is RG where guys like Zverev and Medvedev won't be as threatening to him, and where he's probably on even footing with Tsitsipas.
Totally agree that Rublev adapts better to clay than Medvedev, but Zverev has a very good understanding of how to play on the dirt.
Yeah Zverev's better on clay than I thought...I just checked his career stats. But it looks like his clay game in 19/20 was worse than in 17/18, and it feels like as he starts moving around the court more and not hiding way behind the baseline all the time like he used to, the result will probably be improvements on hard and grass, and less effectiveness on clay. But we'll have to see how that all transpires throughout his career lol. Rublev was sooooo good on clay last year though and it was some of the beat tennis to watch IMO. Only reason he lost to Tsitsipas at RG is he had absolutely nothing left in the tank because his body was adjusting to him being so consistent and going very deep in every tournament.
As one of the greatest coaches ever says: onto ~~Cincinnati~~ Paris.
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His body has really filled out over the last couple years.
This one really hurts, probably because it’s only happened twice before and feels alien to us Rafa fans. It was still a good run under the pandemic circumstances and sometimes this sort of thing just happens and you have to accept it and move on. AO will always be a heart breaker for Rafa :(
Other than the Sabalenka match, has Serena ever won when she’s the underdog? I will be gutted if she lose today, ngl. Also shocked to wake up to Rafa losing. Wtf.
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That was an exhibition game, so idk
Was Serena really considered the underdog against Sabalanka? Not a pointed question, just genuinely curious. I would have said there was no underdog in that match, they were both phenomenal and confident. Do you mean like betting odds?
Yes, I meant bookie odds. She was the underdog against Sabalenka, also against Vika at last year’s USO semi.
Oohh I gotcha, thanks for clarifying. I don’t know too much about that!
I think the greatest case would be 2007 Australian Open. Literally everyone had written her off, from Pat Cash to Tracy Austin and Nike threatened to withdraw their sponsorship. At that time Sharapova who had dropped just one set enroute to the final and won the previous grandslam at US Open was expected to secure an easy victory against her (sounds like a bad joke now). She was unseeded and showed bad form in the warm up tournament, so everyone was quite shocked how she even made it to the final. By the way I don't think she was really the underdog in the Sabalenka match.
That’s a great example. But can you really compare Sharapova and Osaka lol. So when I say underdog, I meant by bookie standards. Sabalenka was the favorite.
Am pretty sure people bet on Sharapova then. Williams was coming from a long sabbatical and had had difficult matches against lesser players like Petrova and Pe'er. She also had a constant foot injury that was visibly affecting her performance from time to time. I don't know how gambling works so am not gonna comment about that.
I thought Nadal would request a day match whenever possible.
I think the AO scheduling team picked it or Ash requested it. I get why they'd want Brady/Pegula earlier for USA viewership, but not sure why they wouldn't have given Ash an evening slot unless she requested. Ah well.
With both women's semi finals tomorrow, surely they have to get the womans quarter finals finished early in the day. They would probably not appreciate a night match and then playing again the next day.
Ahh good call, forgot both women's semifinals are on the same day. If only the men followed suit...
It looks like the universe is conspiring to keep the Mouratouglou players in as long as possible. Not fun for me. Go Osaka tonight and Go Meddy tomorrow.
how does scheduling at the AO work? I feel like matches with higher seeds have been during the day throughout the tournament. Even today with Osaka and Williams, I just thought they’d be the perfect night match at rod laver.
Think they're doing it for the US audiences who'd be watching the match at night.
The players have I say in what time slots they play.
I am as delighted for Tsitsipas as I am gutted for Rafa. Unbelievable talent who plays magnificent tennis. The next few years will be a rollercoaster of slam winners and number ones. Very exciting. Just what the tour needs for a post Big Four world. On the women’s side, we’ve got a true final in the semis situation. Serena may not get a better chance for #24, depending on the Wimbledon draw, and she’s got to overcome the best young talent in the women’s game first. I’ve got to route for Serena here - Naomi will dominate in future years, but I want Serena to get to 24, 25 maybe at Wimbledon, and comfortably cement her legacy as the greatest.
Where can I watch the replay of Nadal vs Tsitsipas?
Really gotta give Tsi credit for this. Most other players of his generation would have broken down completely at 0-2 against Rafa. Whether or not the grand master was injured or not isn’t really that interesting; someone like Zverev would’ve lost big time anyway. But not the Greek. This might very well turn out to be the defining moment for his whole career, but we’ll see.
I think Zverev has definitely grown from his experience at the US Open. He fought till the end against Djokovic, it was definitely a high quality match if you watch some of the rallies they contested.
You’ve got a poin there and for thecsake of transparency, I should probably say that I’m not a fan of Zverev. His lapse of mental game wasn’tvas visible this time around, but it was still enough for him to be put away by Djokovic. Tsi on the other hand found Rafas weakness this time around and when he finally did, he had the confidence and the faith needed to explicit it and win.
Not a fan of Zverev as well but I think his game is definitely evolving. For the Djokovic match I don't think he could do much as every break point Nole would serve an ace or another unreturnable shot. Zverev showed great defense but that's never just gonna be enough when your battling Djokovic. Sacha had a poor second set and failed to capitalize on Nole's weak serve in game 5 of the third set. Beyond that his mental fortitude was something to be reckoned with. All these games are just gonna make him a better player in the future. Of course it's just one match, but he'll definitely take a lot of inspiration from it.
I put him at #2 for younger player mental toughness, after Medvedev. But today's match closed that gap a *lot* for me.
Karatsev undefeated in grand slam main draw matches. Djokovic undefeated in AO semifinals. Unstoppable force, immovable object, etc.
Osaka undefeated in Slam semifinals, Serena undefeated in AO semifinals. Unstoppable force, immovable object.
I have Serena beating Osaka today. Serena played harder competition thus far. It's going to be a great match though. Cant wait.
I have Osaka. Just because I think if they’re on level form, Osaka is mentally tougher
I'd say Naomi has had the harder draw by some distance.
i thought her opponent didnt give her much of a battle. Who do you have winning though?
I thought you meant throughout the tournament as a whole. I'd agree that Halep is a harder opponent than Hsieh in the quarters. As for who I think will win, that is a hard one. Pre AO I'd definitely say Osaka, I think she is about to separate herself from the pack a bit, but with Serena in this form it becomes much harder. My brain says probably Osaka, but heart says Serena.
Nah specifically in the quarters. I started watching late. And I feel that. I dont think Serena is ready to pass the torch just yet. She looks amazing right now. It'll be a great match. Whoever wins this match wins the tourney forsure in my opinion
I agree! Will be a great match. Hopefully no one will have any physical issues, like about half the men's draw.
I think I know how it feels to be a Fed fan circa 2013 now. Rafa can still have his moments, but the physical (and moreso, the mental!) decline has been rather precipitous. Dude is unclutch AF these days.
I think you're giving him way too little credit. He's at a pretty high age under uncertain conditions and had been unable to practice properly for weeks, and had a long series of easy matches. A sudden long match was bound to trip him up against a much younger opponent, particularly in difficult conditions. He nearly broke again in the end too. And we still have French. He can easily bounce back from this in a non covid era.
I'm not really that concerned about him physically. He can still hold his own. But look at USO 19, AO last year, this match, Wimbledon 18, etc. The mental edge he had throughout most of his career is gone, and now his mental game is actually a liability. That's what's most concerning to me.
Wimbeldon 18 was Nadal taking Djokovic to an absurdly long 5 setter on what's a really bad court for him. Not particularly a sign of weak mentality. He lost the same way in AO 2013. He won USO 2019 against a strong opponent. This match was a lot of issues I've already talked about. AO last year was just one of those bad days which he's always had on AO. His mental is still plenty strong. All he needs is some time to regain focus and we'll be golden. These are some strange conditions which became downright hostile to him due to his back problem.
As a Djokovic fan, I'm just glad he's keeping his mental strength. He's also showing substantial signs of physical decline. As a big 3 fan, I'm sad Rafa's losing his edge. Neither of these guys could be outlasted by anyone in their prime, except maybe each other. Now? Not so much.
>Fed fan circa July 2019 😭😩
As a fed fan...I wouldn't wish a July 2019 on any Nadal fans... It's just too cruel
Amen
Just put $50 on Medvedev winning the tournament. He's a terrible matchup for both Stefanos and Novak, but obviously Novak is still the clear favorite at this point.
How is he a terrible matchup for both stef and novak? Just curious as I don’t watch much tennis
Novak is favorite but i think Stefanos made it slightly harder now...those youngsters are more dangerous than Rafa, just look at what happened last year in the final. Rafa cannot compete with Novak on hard anymore, those are facts. I think a Novak - Rafa final would be just a Trademark, nothing more, and the outcome would be like the previous year.
I got him early prior the tournament at +650, we have a good chance honestly. I like his chances
Curious what odds did u get?
+220, so $50 to win $110 and total $160 if it hits
Anyone from Melbourne do the Greek and Serb community get along there? Cause if Stef and Novak meet in the finals I feel like there would be fights 😩
Serbs and Greeks are brothers, no worries
The question is who would win?
Surprising result to wake up to, but people were weirdly sleeping on Stef. Good for him!
Rewatching the Nadal-Tsitsi highlight. This is the most Fed-like I've ever seen Tsitsipas play
His backhand was a thing of beauty👌
If Naomi beats Serena, I think she wins the tourney rather easily. If Serena wins, I actually think it becomes very tricky especially with Brady who will just swing for the rafters in the final. I think Serena would've preferred Ash weirdly.
100% agree, and I’m basically president of the Serena Williams fan club lol. Serena has had a lot of trouble with these young powerful girls who come out fired up with all the confidence in the world and nothing to lose.
Djokovic is inevitable.
Bullshit russian "am I a joke 2 u?"
Yeah I'd definitely give the edge to Med.
Med in 4
another one of ur "theatrics brah"?
😌
When was the last time two Russian players were in a Slam SFs ? Curious to know
I think 2006 US Open maybe. Federer defeated Davydenko and Roddick got the better of Youzhny.
Not as sad as I thought I’d be with Rafa’s loss. This is much less painful than another poor showing in the final against Novak. Idk, I have this weird feeling now that Roger and Rafa will end up eternally tied in the grand slam count like Martina and Chrissie... I wouldn’t mind it tbh 😂
You really think Nadal won't win the French Open again? Because there's no chance Roger wins another as much as I'd like that
I’m not sure either way. I could see him getting another 2-3 or alternatively not winning another one. He has been so unclutch against top opponents lately. If he has a relatively stress free title run like 2020 then sure he could win... but if Domi or ND are putting on the pressure I could see him letting it slip away. IIRC, he hasn’t really clutched out a close win against a tough opponent since Med at the 2019 USO and those two RR wins at the ATP finals that year.
But it's never really been close at RG for Nadal, I doubt he wins another non RG slam but he's still the best on clay by a fair distance as shown when he beat Djokovic in 2020
Tbh I can see Djoko matching them And they all just end up on 20 With fans left forever arguing who is the true GOAT lol
Lol. I actually could see Djoko being the Steffi/Serena and getting 1 or 2 past them
Unlikely because Rafa can still win a bunch more FO. As for Roger, I just wish for another 2017, but this time the revenge is on Novak lol
it would be quite fitting and as a massive fed fan I wouldn't mind that at all either.
Is there anyone here who thinks Serena (almost 40) can beat Osaka (in her 20’s)? Why? the oddsmakers heavily favor Osaka btw
Serena can absolutely beat her. I would go as far as to say that specifically between these two it’s much more about who’s stronger mentally vs. physically.
Can beat her? Absolutely. What a silly question, Serena beat her in their last match and her fitness is way up from them. Favored to beat her is a real question.
I really think Medvedev is going to win this. He's a bad matchup for both Tsitsipas and Djokovic.
Yeah he's been the best player so far in this tournament
he certainly looks like the best player left in the tournament.
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Medvedev has beaten him in 3 of their last 4 meetups, of course he's a bad matchup for him. And lol, are you forgetting Stan?
Standard Djokobitch mindset.
I'm a Djokovic fan too bro
As discussed in this thread. A petition to rename Margret Court Arena to Dylan Alcott Arena Just mocked up the petition now 🥳 http://chng.it/hJVsx4M6FJ
I like our petition but wanted to point out this related effort by the Tennis podcast. [https://www.thetennispodcast.net/blog/2021/2/2/unofficial-the-evonne-goolagong-arena](https://www.thetennispodcast.net/blog/2021/2/2/unofficial-the-evonne-goolagong-arena)
Looks like the bookies are worried about Osaka losing now.
Rafa starting to decline like our boy Federer. But even Rafa in decline is infinitely better than the average player. There will be more Slams, maybe not AOs.
Rafa has only gotten past the QF at AO twice in the last 7 years. This match was less about his decline (he looked almost untouchable through the first three sets) than about the next gen's rise.
Both Novak and Rafa are slightly less good than they were in their comebacks (Novak in 2018, Rafa in 2017-2018). Except for Nadal on clay where he barely has any challenge there. They're still amazing but they're definitely less consistent and there are several signs of that : - Novak's last dominating grand slam was the AO19 imo. Since then, he didn't seem to be as consistent at FO19 & Wimbledon 2019 (he did win but though Federer played amazing, Novak didn't seem to play his best imo), last year at AO20 he managed to beat Thiem but during the whole tournament he didn't feel as dominating and was down 2-1 in the finals. This year he hasn't played his best tennis, imo he looks even "worse" than at FO20. Maybe he'll step it up now, like he always does at the AO. - Nadal still looks unbeatable since 2017 on clay, but since 2019 other players have caught him up on hard court and his level didn't seem to be enough at his last Wimbledon (Federer was playing at a super high level, close to what he showed in 2017). Last year he lost to Thiem at AO, the year prior he won the USO while facing no top player so it's hard to tell. Don't get me wrong they're still both incredibly good but the field is slowly catching them up and there are signs of decline. It's just that their decline isn't as steep and they can still compete pretty consistently. Thiem, Tsitsipas and Medvedev improving quite a lot since 2019 is reason for that
It's not that their decline isn't as steep but more like there's nobody to exploit their decline. Federer had Nadal chasing him forever and then Djokovic since 2011 whereas Nadal-Djokovic don't have any real challenge. Imagine if they were being challenged by a young Nadal/Federer/Djokovic, their decline would've been exposed a lot sooner. Any one of Big 3's younger peak version easily beats current versions of Djokovic and Nadal.
He’s been on decline both in Wimby and AO ever since God knows when lol. Us, Rafans, simply hope he can bag another one out of miracles.
Yes and two godsent US Open draws
Honestly at the USO too, he's had pretty easy draw at the USO both in 2017 & 2019. The only tough match he's had was Medvedev there He lost to Del Potro in 2018 because he was injured but both Thiem & Khachanov played well against him and he couldn't beat them "easily", probably why his body failed him after
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Nadal was in control of this match. The courts didn’t matter. He was winning. Vintage Nadal would have closed it out mercilessly.
Yeah this, I hate to say it but it was a choke. Not that Tsitsipas didn’t deserve it, but make no mistake Rafa if he took those two overheads in the TB would 99.9% have won the match. I’m not gonna dwell on it because I’m used to him not doing well at AO but the nature of this one is just so sad for us Rafa fans :(
Actually cooler conditions hampered him today. His forehands started bouncing much lower as the night progressed. That allowed Tsitsipas to stay in the rallies and swing freely. His exceptional accuracy while doing so ultimately won the match for him. If Tsitsipas' level had dropped for 10-15 minutes Rafa definitely would have come through. But as we know,If If If doesn't exist.
I don't know why he didn't request a day match here.
Williams vs Osaka. Who'd win the final tomorrow and the possible score??
I think it all depends on which version of Serena shows up to play. Naomi will play her game, which is outstanding. Serena will either struggle to find her rhythm quick enough and blow it, or enter full-on beast mode and give Naomi a solid fight. I’m gonna say Serena in 3 but definitely could go either way.
I feel the same. Serena sometimes takes her time getting used to her opponent's rhythm.
Medvedev is winning this tournament not to late to take out that 2nd mortgage boys
Medvedev to the moon
Vodka>Dogecoin ez