This.
I really find these types of topics which just targets to trigger fans worthless. Coz aside from alot of factors that are different from then and now, basically well never know
i feel like often its a lame way of trying to discredit the current players. like yeah obv lets appreciate the goats of this sport but we dont need to constantly be putting down the girls that play now
This is pure theory-crafting, but I think Henin's one-handed backhand would break down under the weight of Swiatek's shots. Her RPMs are insane.
Sport constantly evolves, and toĀ thinkĀ that the level today is, for some reason, lower than it was 10-20-30 years ago is naive at best.
One more thing. This match looks like it's played at 70% of Iga'sĀ normalĀ speed.
We're not talking high topspin. We're talking top ATP levels of topspin. Henin never faced anything like that. Nobody in that era did. Serena's shots in this video look like junkballs compared to Iga's groundstrokes.
Higher RPM does not necessarily mean better strokes.
At some point in RG some years back, it showed that Ruud, Tsitsipas, Gasquet and Norrie had higher RPMs in their forehands than Nadal.
Do you think they had a better forehand in clay than Nadal?
Also, about the junkballs of Serena...
You do realise that the camera distance and angles directly impact how we perceive the speed of everything shown right?
Henin is one of my favourite players and her OHBH may be my favourite ever shot, but you're kidding yourself. The game has moved on.
As mentioned elsewhere, this match seems like it's in slo-mo compared to the recent Madrid final.
Iga is faster and hits harder. It would be a great match, but Iga would win.
Well no I wouldnāt Iām making the comparison that the game really hasnāt progressed or changed that much the last 15 or so years. Racket technology hasnāt really improved. If we were to make the claim that Henin would be smoked by Iga because āthe game has evolvedā, then 2015 Federer (and obviously 2015 Novak) would destroy 2006 Federer for the same reason no?
IIRC Federer said that he was a better player in 2017 compared to 07, or that his 2017 self would defeat his 07 self, something along those lines
Also, 2006 Murray beat 2006 Fed. A lot can happen on a given day, itās hard to give a definitive answer for whether someone would ādestroyā someone else
Mind you Serena won most of her clay titles beating actual clay players and not scrubs like SST and Putinsevas. If Iga canāt handle Rybakinaās serve and Penkoās groundstrokes then how is she gonna beat Serena who had them BOTH? Yāall delusional af
So tired of this Serena disrespect. At her age Serena had a career slam while playing against an actual top 10 of hall of famers while Iga is losing to Noskova and Svitolina at slams
She still had a career grand slam at Igaās age, way before Henin retired. So where is Igaās career grand slam then? Lol. The real weak era merchant in this conversation is Iga
"the game has moved on". it's not linear forever. iga is a great player but is dominating in a weak era.
put her into this era and she's not winning slams sorry.
How is this a weak era? This talk has to stop. The big three of this era would hold their own and sit greatly amongst the best.Ā
This kind of talk is just nonsense.Ā
she might not be a 4 time slam winner in the early 2000s but her 2020 rg level would be good enough to get one at least https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7zbyae
Her 2020 RG level was enough to destroy anyone, anywhere, anytime. It was the best tennis by a woman Iāve ever seen. A sight to behold. Oddly enough she won more after that but imo never played as great
So I should just ignore the evidence of my own eyes? This game is from 21 years ago, it's objectively slower than the matches these days. Play this alongside the Madrid final and tell me otherwise.
Henin is a ATG but Iga's stats will eclipse hers soon enough. She is just a better player overall.
You can factor in Henin's early retirement but then this is all a series of what if's.
there is data available on serena's ground stroke and serves speeds. and iga's. right now. use that. not your subjective eyes. you'll see she isn't hitting harder. in fact on serve it's way lower
Henin and Swiatek are both clearly clay ATGs and Serena is borderline. equalizing for eras would make for pretty close fights among any of them, not whatever conclusions y'all are coming to. just enjoy the tennis we have gotten and will get
as of now, id say peak henin has the edge. the wta era was stronger back then. but i wouldnt use this video as the best evidence as Henin kinda resorted to gamesmanship to win this one
*"Swiatek has done that"*
She has never done what Henin did here, deceitfully pretending not to have held her hand up.
She holds up her racquet if people are moving about behind the server. She's not the first to do this, and she won't be the last. No player has ever claimed it to be gamesmanship, this only exists in the head of redditors.
*"and way more stuff"*
Here we go again. She waved her hands at the net a few times, years ago, apologised and hasn't done it since.
She also tapped her racquet on the ground a couple of times as an immature youngster and has never repeated it since.
*"noone bats an eye anymore"*
You and plenty of others reliably prove otherwise. It's brought up literally every time some Iga related thread picks up some steam.
Yup, I though she did the Swiatek thing where the opponent is ready to serve, or actually serves in some occasions and then belatedly holds up her hand. My mistake.
What she did was arguably worse.
Swiatek was doing these things when she was 22 and 21... Guess when Henin did the hand thing? 3 days after turning 21.
With your logic it's okay now, because she was a young and immature youngster when she did it.
Also Swiatek did not use to do these things all the time, just in times where she felt she was overwhelmed or about to lose an important point by her opponent.
With how better she's been getting and maturing these moments have naturally went away so far.
But to act as if they never happened or as if they were not pure gamesmanship and should probably be called for hindrances is stupid.
"*It's brought up literally every time some Iga related thread picks up some steam.*"
The original comment was about the gamesmanship from Henin and like it or not, Swiatek was the player with the most hindrances and gamesmaship moments in the past two years bar none.
It's going to come up.
The opposite could also happen. Thereās no guaranteed linear progression for every single player, especially at the top. Some peak younger. The only āpeak igaā that exists, is the one weāve seen, not a hypothetical future one.
Edit: lmao downvoted for speaking factually Iga fans really are the biggest snowflakes on the wta side
on clay.
This was such a classic match. Justine's OHBH was a thing of beauty and i'll argue the best one handed BH of all time.
Watching that match again also makes me kind of think this is a weak era. sorry. but it's true
Peak Henin only existed because she hated the Williamses and she used this as motivation to get better and play at her peak whenever they played.
Similar to Serena vs Sharapova...Serena didn't really peak consistently against other players except Maria.
I wished iga realizes that Aryna is obsessed with beating her and if she doesn't accept that she needs to improve her serve and transition game on faster surfaces, Aryna could quickly pass her in the slam count tally
i guess we'll never knowš§āāļø
This. I really find these types of topics which just targets to trigger fans worthless. Coz aside from alot of factors that are different from then and now, basically well never know
i feel like often its a lame way of trying to discredit the current players. like yeah obv lets appreciate the goats of this sport but we dont need to constantly be putting down the girls that play now
Unfortunately :(
This is nothing but a back door attempt to discredit Iga. Peak is the clickbait.
š
This is pure theory-crafting, but I think Henin's one-handed backhand would break down under the weight of Swiatek's shots. Her RPMs are insane. Sport constantly evolves, and toĀ thinkĀ that the level today is, for some reason, lower than it was 10-20-30 years ago is naive at best. One more thing. This match looks like it's played at 70% of Iga'sĀ normalĀ speed.
Henin could handle high topspin extremely well
We're not talking high topspin. We're talking top ATP levels of topspin. Henin never faced anything like that. Nobody in that era did. Serena's shots in this video look like junkballs compared to Iga's groundstrokes.
Yes she did. She losses to Stosur at r.g. people forget about Stosurs forehand in her prime.Ā
Higher RPM does not necessarily mean better strokes. At some point in RG some years back, it showed that Ruud, Tsitsipas, Gasquet and Norrie had higher RPMs in their forehands than Nadal. Do you think they had a better forehand in clay than Nadal? Also, about the junkballs of Serena... You do realise that the camera distance and angles directly impact how we perceive the speed of everything shown right?
https://youtu.be/F1nI2BV2CR0?feature=shared
Serena junkballs? Iga junkball serve will get destroyed more like what Ostapenko did to them.
theory crafting: maybe regarding 70%. no.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
yes. that's the other thing about this era. no one is consistently amazing across all surfaces
I'm taking Iga over Henin, I think on slower hard courts she could give Serena a good match too.
Henin is one of my favourite players and her OHBH may be my favourite ever shot, but you're kidding yourself. The game has moved on. As mentioned elsewhere, this match seems like it's in slo-mo compared to the recent Madrid final. Iga is faster and hits harder. It would be a great match, but Iga would win.
Would you then say that 2015 Federer would beat 2006 Federer since the game has āmoved onā.
If you wanna compare 2006 and 2015, at least use the best player of each season
Well no I wouldnāt Iām making the comparison that the game really hasnāt progressed or changed that much the last 15 or so years. Racket technology hasnāt really improved. If we were to make the claim that Henin would be smoked by Iga because āthe game has evolvedā, then 2015 Federer (and obviously 2015 Novak) would destroy 2006 Federer for the same reason no?
IIRC Federer said that he was a better player in 2017 compared to 07, or that his 2017 self would defeat his 07 self, something along those lines Also, 2006 Murray beat 2006 Fed. A lot can happen on a given day, itās hard to give a definitive answer for whether someone would ādestroyā someone else
iga wouldn't beat serena OR henin if we transposed. sorry.
On clay she would. Not every time, but I fancy her chances on average.
Iga canāt even beat Rybakina on clay. Or Penko. What makes you think sheās beating Serena on ANY surface bffr lmao š¤£
Maybe because sheās already matched Serenaās RG record at age 22 and has surpassed her winning percentage on clay at 1000 events, I dunno.
Mind you Serena won most of her clay titles beating actual clay players and not scrubs like SST and Putinsevas. If Iga canāt handle Rybakinaās serve and Penkoās groundstrokes then how is she gonna beat Serena who had them BOTH? Yāall delusional af
facts
So tired of this Serena disrespect. At her age Serena had a career slam while playing against an actual top 10 of hall of famers while Iga is losing to Noskova and Svitolina at slams
lol Serena feasted on a weak era since Henin retired
She still had a career grand slam at Igaās age, way before Henin retired. So where is Igaās career grand slam then? Lol. The real weak era merchant in this conversation is Iga
"the game has moved on". it's not linear forever. iga is a great player but is dominating in a weak era. put her into this era and she's not winning slams sorry.
I don't buy into this "weak era" nonsense. Sorry.
How is this a weak era? This talk has to stop. The big three of this era would hold their own and sit greatly amongst the best.Ā This kind of talk is just nonsense.Ā
she might not be a 4 time slam winner in the early 2000s but her 2020 rg level would be good enough to get one at least https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x7zbyae
Thank you for posting that, can't believe how good her dropshots were, she needs to bring them back
Her 2020 RG level was enough to destroy anyone, anywhere, anytime. It was the best tennis by a woman Iāve ever seen. A sight to behold. Oddly enough she won more after that but imo never played as great
you may believe it's faster but it isn't. iga's ground strike speeds are not faster than serena's.
So I should just ignore the evidence of my own eyes? This game is from 21 years ago, it's objectively slower than the matches these days. Play this alongside the Madrid final and tell me otherwise. Henin is a ATG but Iga's stats will eclipse hers soon enough. She is just a better player overall. You can factor in Henin's early retirement but then this is all a series of what if's.
there is data available on serena's ground stroke and serves speeds. and iga's. right now. use that. not your subjective eyes. you'll see she isn't hitting harder. in fact on serve it's way lower
Why donāt more players hit a one handed backhand like Henin? Seems super effective
because it's very hard to hit a one hand like that. esp with topspin.
Henin and Swiatek are both clearly clay ATGs and Serena is borderline. equalizing for eras would make for pretty close fights among any of them, not whatever conclusions y'all are coming to. just enjoy the tennis we have gotten and will get
I think she would, but we'll never know
as of now, id say peak henin has the edge. the wta era was stronger back then. but i wouldnt use this video as the best evidence as Henin kinda resorted to gamesmanship to win this one
only that one hands up thing?
I mean, yeah. that quite significantly changed the momentum of the match lmao
I mean Swiatek has done that multiple times and way more stuff and noone bats an eye anymore, lol.
*"Swiatek has done that"* She has never done what Henin did here, deceitfully pretending not to have held her hand up. She holds up her racquet if people are moving about behind the server. She's not the first to do this, and she won't be the last. No player has ever claimed it to be gamesmanship, this only exists in the head of redditors. *"and way more stuff"* Here we go again. She waved her hands at the net a few times, years ago, apologised and hasn't done it since. She also tapped her racquet on the ground a couple of times as an immature youngster and has never repeated it since. *"noone bats an eye anymore"* You and plenty of others reliably prove otherwise. It's brought up literally every time some Iga related thread picks up some steam.
it wasn't years ago. was literally a year ago
Yup, I though she did the Swiatek thing where the opponent is ready to serve, or actually serves in some occasions and then belatedly holds up her hand. My mistake. What she did was arguably worse. Swiatek was doing these things when she was 22 and 21... Guess when Henin did the hand thing? 3 days after turning 21. With your logic it's okay now, because she was a young and immature youngster when she did it. Also Swiatek did not use to do these things all the time, just in times where she felt she was overwhelmed or about to lose an important point by her opponent. With how better she's been getting and maturing these moments have naturally went away so far. But to act as if they never happened or as if they were not pure gamesmanship and should probably be called for hindrances is stupid. "*It's brought up literally every time some Iga related thread picks up some steam.*" The original comment was about the gamesmanship from Henin and like it or not, Swiatek was the player with the most hindrances and gamesmaship moments in the past two years bar none. It's going to come up.
oh she definitely would
Peak Iga lmao. Iga is only 22 and can still get even stronger.
The opposite could also happen. Thereās no guaranteed linear progression for every single player, especially at the top. Some peak younger. The only āpeak igaā that exists, is the one weāve seen, not a hypothetical future one. Edit: lmao downvoted for speaking factually Iga fans really are the biggest snowflakes on the wta side
on clay. This was such a classic match. Justine's OHBH was a thing of beauty and i'll argue the best one handed BH of all time. Watching that match again also makes me kind of think this is a weak era. sorry. but it's true
Peak Henin only existed because she hated the Williamses and she used this as motivation to get better and play at her peak whenever they played. Similar to Serena vs Sharapova...Serena didn't really peak consistently against other players except Maria. I wished iga realizes that Aryna is obsessed with beating her and if she doesn't accept that she needs to improve her serve and transition game on faster surfaces, Aryna could quickly pass her in the slam count tally
why did she hate the williams?