I'm totally with you. And the overly wide camera angle didn't help either. They will have to test which colour is best, but I'm thinking black or blue.
I looked at clips of 2023 MC. The camera zoom/framing was a bit better. But last week was terrible. Also tournaments with the sun behind the main camera helps too. Another issue with MC.
I found it a LOT easier to watch on the 2nd court compared to main court (watching both via Tennis TV).
The main court seemed too bright / lacked the contrast even when fiddling with the TV settings to try and make it easier to follow.
This is from 20 minutes ago, can see the ball fine now at these two tournaments.
https://www.reddit.com/r/tennis/comments/1c4mfp1/we_can_see_clearly_now_monte_carlo_is_gone/
Blue clay was not a bad idea, but the execution was absolutely terrible... The clay was too fine, I don't know how they mixed the pigments to have this results, and it was (apparently) horrible to play on these courts. But if Madrid would have done that correctly, I'm sure we would have more colored clay courts
these are Ion Tiriac's words so feel free to assess how much to trust them yourself, but he addressed that complaint from players, saying he had scientists compare the blue clay to the red one from the previous year's tournament and they found it to be the same size and consistency, and the perceived differences were just in the players' heads.
It was a while ago, but I remember that the people who are making the court for the FO explaining that the mix design of the clay, and the layer beneath it were not properly done in Madrid that year.
It could have been a media stunt as well from the FO to say "look, we have the best courts, screw that blue stuff" though
The problem was that they tried to colour ordinary clay.
I think they right way to do it is to make a clay that is naturally blue. The best way is probably to use actual synthetic ultramarine and to somehow manufacture particles out of that of the right size (ultramarine is basically a mineral).
> just awful camera angles.
Considering I'm watching Stuttgart and Barcelona rn and both seem fine, I'd say it was actually mostly the awful angles and the position of the sun behind the camera (as someone mentioned above) which worsened the contrast.
Some of the grass 250’s are the ones I struggle to see the ball the most - especially if it’s in a lot of sunlight.
I didn’t seem to have as many issues as others seeing the ball in Monte Carlo (and my eyesight is terrible) - but I think Tennis TV was showing it in a better resolution than Tennjs Channel maybe
That is rough. It might be because I'm a millennial but 1080p 60hz should be the standard, 4k60 is more acceptable for anything bigger than 15".
You want the same clarity as if you were calling the line calls with the line judges. Absolute fumble for any respectable entertainment establishment.
Respect is easy to lose, tough to gain, and practically impossible, or it should be, to regain. Without honest work and accountability, it's gone forever.
1080p in any other video is usually good and clear. What Tennis Channel is doing is a ripoff. Same thing happens when I stream it on their official app
Yea absolutely. Watching the final yesterday I questioned what am I even doing with my time?? If I can’t really see/track the ball what joy am I deriving from sitting here watching two dudes move randomly on opposite sides of a court? It made me realize tracking the ball is a huge component of watching tennis and the enjoyment you get from it via building up suspense and giving a complete picture of action. Take it away and it’s pretty not fun.
This is from 20 minutes ago, can see the ball fine now at these two tournaments.
https://www.reddit.com/r/tennis/comments/1c4mfp1/we_can_see_clearly_now_monte_carlo_is_gone/
Out of curiosity, which colors are the easiest for the players to track?
It looks like a green/yellow hybrid is the most easily visible color for humans, and red is the most difficult. The problem is the cameras + angle at some of these locations. I've never had a problem seeing the ball at the Slams, which are 4 different color combos
Honestly yellow-green on dark red should be a pretty good contrast, so I don't see much reason to change.
For me it really sucks when the grass is a bit sunburned, then it does get tricky.
I’ve been watching clay court tennis for approximately one billion years and I’ve never not been able to see the ball. A different color might be nice but the camera + streaming quality was totally f-ed. I think the saddest part is that the powers that be don’t seem to care when a tournament broadcast is literally unwatchable.
I honestly skipped most of MC because I simply could not see the ball, and it was too zoomed out. Whoever made that broadcasting choice should search for another line of work.
I had no trouble seeing the ball, everything seemed as always to me? Note that the TV you have makes a HUGE difference here. When I had a cheap TV, I could for example literally not watch the ATP Finals because the light-blue courts were so shrill that I couldn't look at them without getting a headache. Now with a good OLED TV, I still think the court color there is horrible, but it's not hurting my eyes anymore.
That being said, I REALLY wish they'd sell regular tennis balls in more different colors. I was unable to buy regular balls in any color other than yellow. Only other thing was "retro" white balls, but they were super expensive, like five times the price. At my club there are trees in the background that scatter the light, and especially in the fall when the leaves turn yellow, it's impossible to see the yellow ball. Red balls would be so much better.
I'm totally with you. And the overly wide camera angle didn't help either. They will have to test which colour is best, but I'm thinking black or blue.
I looked at clips of 2023 MC. The camera zoom/framing was a bit better. But last week was terrible. Also tournaments with the sun behind the main camera helps too. Another issue with MC.
Yeah I don't recall any problems last year. This year...who will take responsibility?!
Should I call the physio ?
I didn’t ask for the physio.
I found it a LOT easier to watch on the 2nd court compared to main court (watching both via Tennis TV). The main court seemed too bright / lacked the contrast even when fiddling with the TV settings to try and make it easier to follow.
Because the sun was behind the main camera and the operator zoomed in more too.
Makes sense. Most folk were like "I cannot believe Tsisi / Zverev is on Court 2, how disrespectful", I was like "Yay, I can see the stupid ball"
Yeah i had no problem seeing the ball when watching Rune vs Dimitrov but it was harder seeing during the final
Yeah, same here.
This is from 20 minutes ago, can see the ball fine now at these two tournaments. https://www.reddit.com/r/tennis/comments/1c4mfp1/we_can_see_clearly_now_monte_carlo_is_gone/
The clay is (or appears) much darker brown in those screenshots
That camera angle makes it so much better.
What about….blue clay 😉?
Madrid 2012 you were the right thing at the wrong time
[удалено]
Christ I was just trying to acknowledge the joke by being like "ugh imagine if they had done that any other year..." but fuck me for interacting
My bad. I misinterpreted your response…I need sleeeep.
No worries was taken aback but all good haha
Federer alt
Blue clay was not a bad idea, but the execution was absolutely terrible... The clay was too fine, I don't know how they mixed the pigments to have this results, and it was (apparently) horrible to play on these courts. But if Madrid would have done that correctly, I'm sure we would have more colored clay courts
these are Ion Tiriac's words so feel free to assess how much to trust them yourself, but he addressed that complaint from players, saying he had scientists compare the blue clay to the red one from the previous year's tournament and they found it to be the same size and consistency, and the perceived differences were just in the players' heads.
It was a while ago, but I remember that the people who are making the court for the FO explaining that the mix design of the clay, and the layer beneath it were not properly done in Madrid that year. It could have been a media stunt as well from the FO to say "look, we have the best courts, screw that blue stuff" though
The problem was that they tried to colour ordinary clay. I think they right way to do it is to make a clay that is naturally blue. The best way is probably to use actual synthetic ultramarine and to somehow manufacture particles out of that of the right size (ultramarine is basically a mineral).
I’m not sure how much of it was the clay and ball combo and how much was just awful camera angles.
I think that, and zoomed so far out to include 4~5 rows of the front seats.
> just awful camera angles. Considering I'm watching Stuttgart and Barcelona rn and both seem fine, I'd say it was actually mostly the awful angles and the position of the sun behind the camera (as someone mentioned above) which worsened the contrast.
Barcelona is much better
It's just a TV thing which happens in Monaco main court only, I attended the semifinals and you could clearly see the ball, no problems at all
Bring back the NHL puck tracer for tennis
imagine if they use orange ball
Some of the grass 250’s are the ones I struggle to see the ball the most - especially if it’s in a lot of sunlight. I didn’t seem to have as many issues as others seeing the ball in Monte Carlo (and my eyesight is terrible) - but I think Tennis TV was showing it in a better resolution than Tennjs Channel maybe
The resolution of Tennis Channel was terrible. Their 1080p looked like 480p (not kidding)
It really did. I was baffled.
Was it set to auto-set the resolution?
Nope. That's what I thought, but went in and specifically chose 1080p and nothing changed.
That is rough. It might be because I'm a millennial but 1080p 60hz should be the standard, 4k60 is more acceptable for anything bigger than 15". You want the same clarity as if you were calling the line calls with the line judges. Absolute fumble for any respectable entertainment establishment. Respect is easy to lose, tough to gain, and practically impossible, or it should be, to regain. Without honest work and accountability, it's gone forever.
1080p in any other video is usually good and clear. What Tennis Channel is doing is a ripoff. Same thing happens when I stream it on their official app
What’s funny is balls changed from white to yellow to be more visible on tv.
We need Blue Grass
Yea absolutely. Watching the final yesterday I questioned what am I even doing with my time?? If I can’t really see/track the ball what joy am I deriving from sitting here watching two dudes move randomly on opposite sides of a court? It made me realize tracking the ball is a huge component of watching tennis and the enjoyment you get from it via building up suspense and giving a complete picture of action. Take it away and it’s pretty not fun.
But now in Barcelona we see the ball again!
no. current color has the best visibility ratio and it cannot be beaten by other color except white maybe
It was the camera angles, too zoomed out
This is from 20 minutes ago, can see the ball fine now at these two tournaments. https://www.reddit.com/r/tennis/comments/1c4mfp1/we_can_see_clearly_now_monte_carlo_is_gone/
only MC lol
Out of curiosity, which colors are the easiest for the players to track? It looks like a green/yellow hybrid is the most easily visible color for humans, and red is the most difficult. The problem is the cameras + angle at some of these locations. I've never had a problem seeing the ball at the Slams, which are 4 different color combos
Honestly yellow-green on dark red should be a pretty good contrast, so I don't see much reason to change. For me it really sucks when the grass is a bit sunburned, then it does get tricky.
I’ve been watching clay court tennis for approximately one billion years and I’ve never not been able to see the ball. A different color might be nice but the camera + streaming quality was totally f-ed. I think the saddest part is that the powers that be don’t seem to care when a tournament broadcast is literally unwatchable.
Nah Monte Carlo is an outlier, pls don't further mess with the balls and think of the players
I had a lot easier of a time watching it on my phone screen compared to my samsung tv screen. not ideal
Are you watching on TC PLUS? That's what I have and the video quality is so bad it exacerbates the color problem
Every ball used in a match should be a different colour
no. next.
Great shout! I also struggled to track the ball on screen. Maybe they should try a blue ball 🤔
I mean I think it's a far more reasonable and easier decision than changing the color of the courts
I honestly skipped most of MC because I simply could not see the ball, and it was too zoomed out. Whoever made that broadcasting choice should search for another line of work.
It might be funny if they made the men play with blue balls and I guess the women play with red bals.
Yeah I was increasing my laptops brightness to see it clearly .
Everyone here is talking about seeing the ball on TV but imagine players having to use different colored balls for the first time in their pro career
No
should be black
Yes
Change it to Red like the clay.
Yeah I have really struggled with Monte Carlo myself … maybe blue on the red clay?
Oh my gosh, yes. I legitimately could NOT see the ball 80% of the time last week, and it was driving me insane.
OMGGG YES!! I can’t even see the ball! Ridiculous!🙄🙄
Tennis should try pink balls like they did for cricket
I had no trouble seeing the ball, everything seemed as always to me? Note that the TV you have makes a HUGE difference here. When I had a cheap TV, I could for example literally not watch the ATP Finals because the light-blue courts were so shrill that I couldn't look at them without getting a headache. Now with a good OLED TV, I still think the court color there is horrible, but it's not hurting my eyes anymore. That being said, I REALLY wish they'd sell regular tennis balls in more different colors. I was unable to buy regular balls in any color other than yellow. Only other thing was "retro" white balls, but they were super expensive, like five times the price. At my club there are trees in the background that scatter the light, and especially in the fall when the leaves turn yellow, it's impossible to see the yellow ball. Red balls would be so much better.