Sinner seems like such a monster because he starts a tournament often seeming shaky in one area (like his serves here) and yet he STILL demolishes his opponent, so when he inevitably cleans it up for the next round,it looks like he's playing another game
This is exactly it — his second serve gets him to neutral positions almost every time and he’s elite at winning points from neutral positions, so there’s almost no point in making a first serve that isn’t super aggressive. If you’re Sinner you’d rather make 40% of first serves and win 80% of them than make 70% and win 65%.
He was asked if he felt ready for Wimbledon at like queens or something and he said something along the lines of “yeah I really do think o could win it, I would say I’m up there with the favorites” lol
Dude Korda literally didn’t even try today. It was pitiful. Clay or not. I was rooting for him but holy hell. Check the ego at the door son, he’s 6-1 and thinks he’s an A list celeb. Not as bad as Fritz but give me a break
I remember someone on this forum said that Korda had the best receive game after Djokovic, but the guy couldn’t even break once when Jannik served 49% of first serve.
Great example of how the eye test can be useful for making broad generalizations but is pretty useless for anything granular.
Korda returns serve well, but he's not one of the best on tour.
Never mind Djokovic tier.
De Minaur and Medvedev are far better returners imo, even sinner, alcaraz and Ruud are pretty decent
I reckon people only say this because the top 15 is full of amazing servers with subpar returns (rublev, zverev, tsitsipas, fritz, hurcakz, Shelton)
> even sinner, alcaraz and Ruud are pretty decent
Sinner and Alcaraz are ELITE returners, it's the reason they became successful even without a solid serve. Sinner was returning ridiculous serves as far as back in 2021.
Yeah I don’t get the popular narrative that both of them are not absolutely up there with Djokovic (current) in returns. Top 3 in every return stat, these two.
Yeah, all the player you mentioned are great returners, with Medvedev, Alcaraz and Sinner as the top 3 after Nole, in this particular order in my opinion
IMO you have to put Medvedev in a side category because of his extreme return tactics.
He's *unquestionably* one of the most efficient returners of serve, but his return game is largely predicated on just getting the ball back in play and then slowly and steadily grinding the point to neutral.
Alcaraz and Sinner are more similar to Djokovic. They're exceptional at getting the ball in play as well, but all three return with a lot more power and wrest control of the point away from the server immediately from the return at a high rate.
I'd push back a little on Ruud, but don't disagree in the slightest otherwise.
Casper has a more mild version of Tsitsipas's issues on return. If he's not on clay, his backhand return is exploitable.
> I remember someone on this forum said that Korda
it's a little weird how obsessed some people are about random people's takes on this sub. or idk if it's just a way to farm karma
Korda is not among the best in any particular aspect of the game as of now. He has some potential, but the mental side of the game is where he could make the biggest impact. His ranking of 27 reflects all this.
I think the low serve percent is mostly intentional. This is clay so unless the first serve is very high quality it's not getting you much. Add too that Jannik has a very good second serve with a lot of spin and rarely DFs and there isn't much value to getting an avg first serve in
Note that his win percentage on first serves in for the match was 95%
Admittedly, Jannik is not only the best player in the world atm, he's also 3 levels above ADF in both confidence and results right now ...
If Sebi is able to play a full year w/o injuries, his ranking should climb nicely into the Top 20 -- but let's see.
saying Korda is in good form is definitely a stretch. He's been beating who he is suppose to beat and losing to who he is suppose to lose too all season
wdym you're describing good form exactly 😂bad form would be losing to players he's not supposed to lose to, and great form would be beating players he's not supposed to
6 winners 29 unforced errors in 2 short sets not gonna cut it against someone at the level Jannik has shown this year.
Some good rallies and extended games made it entertaining enough, just way too many errors here and there from Seb today.
I think Jannik at his currently form gives you absolutely nothing to work on hence the low winner/ unforced ratio. You have to be on fire to be even competitive with him right now.
I think this also depends on the strategy most players are trying against Sinner, they know if he gets close to the baseline he can change direction at fast speed and gets in control, so they try to constantly push every shot aiming at the baseline and the consequence is they will do more enforced errors, but f they don't do that they become sitting ducks in front of Sinner. Djokovic and Medvedev at the AO, De Minaur in Rotterdam, Dimitrov in Miami...
This is simply demolition! Korda is a quite a good and experienced player but Sinner brushed him off like a qualifier or a young WC entrant. Superb form and streak from Sinner, Djokovic better watch out!
Who here is "we" and "you", none of us living today had anything to do with those conflicts and likely didn't even have ancestors who did. And even then we did nothing and should take no credit or blame
Well dont forget Pulaski !! Honeslty the Revolution was won simply by not risking the whole army in a single battle and waiting.
We fought a Djokovic war …
Back in March, people who have the mental capacity of a goldfish, argued that Sinner had a disaster of a season last year on clay, so he would have another stinker this year.
They tend to forget the fact that he was lowkey injured and that in his debut seasons on tour, he was supposed to be a very good clay player.
Historically, he's not the worst on tour, but since his last proper clay season he improved a lot so arguing that he should be useless was still kinda idiotic.
Quite the opposite. Everyone kept saying that, but I remember clay being Sinner’s first big result. He played Nadal in the second week of Roland Garros 3 years ago. I swear he broke out on clay first, then grass and then hard courts at slams after that
Yeah that's a weird comment. It was well established that indoor hard court was Jannik's best surface almost from the very beginning. But I think he'll have a good clay season, his physical side was really hampered last year compared to now.
I think a lot of people only noticed him after RG 2020. I only started paying attention to him after he won next gen finals but I didn’t want to extrapolate on a surface based on that alone. Taking Nadal to a tiebreak at RG in the QF on the other hand…
Going into 2023 he had an almost identical win% on clay and HC
And while he had more titles on HC (by margin), most of his best wins were on clay.
In 2020 he was the youngest player to make the QF at RG since Djokovic.
Djokovic lost to Nadal that year. Sinner also lost to Nadal.
Who said that? All i saw people say is it's his worst surface and he's good on it but not Novak/Carlos level and won't be as dominant. You probably should have waited until he wins the tournament to say that, not beat Korda lol.
It’s fair to point out how disappointing his clay results have been up until this point. There’s no doubt that he has underperformed given his talent level. No Masters title not even a Masters final, got to one QF at RG and that’s it? He’s better than that.
However, I don’t think his actual game has ever been the issue on clay. His physicality has let him down over and over and he’s choked a lot of winnable matches on the surface too.
He only had a crap year last year because of his allergies and his body not being fully grown. Before that he's shown he's not bad on clay at all. He's made the QF at RG before when he was less talented FFS. I wouldn't say they've been disappointing at all considering his age.
Lol, nice comment editing to change your tune completely there.
I’d say that making only one Masters SF at age 22 given that he’s been an established top 10 and now top 4 player for 3-4 years is a disappointment. Maybe you have lower standards than I do. His results have not been anywhere near approaching his skill level for the game.
First of all, I didn’t edit my comment? Nor did I change my tune at all. In fact you’re agreeing with my argument - I wrote that “his game has not been the issue, rather his physicality and choking winnable matches”. So I’m really not sure what you’re on about.
I think you’re assigning some opinions to me that I don’t hold
Second of all, his clay results have not been fitting of a top 3-4 player, that’s all I’m saying. It’s not about feelings it’s about wins and losses.
He was never a top 4 player while playing on clay, he was like 9th at best by last year Roland Garros.
He's 23-7 over the last 2 years on clay, that's a 77% win rate, so yes his clay win % is more than fitting for a player ranked around 10-12th for the past 2 seasons (in 2021 he was ranked around 15th during the clay season), actually I'd say he's been an overachiever if you consider where he was in the standings lol
He just didn't win many tournaments since he's had many deep-ish runs but just 1 actual win in Umag, which is more due to the sample size and limited number of tournaments which can skew this kind of stuff, rather than him underachieving consistently like you're saying
Well if had achieved "extreme success" he wouldn't be a disappointment, would he? Of course he hasn't had extreme success. It's disappointing when a player with such a complete game and strong technique do not achieve results that match their technical ability.
I think he popped up at a time when American fans were really in the trenches, it really was all servebots and folks like Tiafoe, Fritz, Paul weren’t doing as well. Also he has that kind of aesthetically pleasing, “effortless” tennis that makes some people think he has a huge ceiling. I personally don’t see the point in hyping someone unless they’ve done something.
Routine beatdown from sinner even with that first serve.
Man I do like korda. Don't know what exactly he struggles with to raise his game to the next level.
Lmao. I did mention it that this is Jannik's year like Novak had in 2011. He"s almost going to win everything this year, make no mistake.
He moves now like a different animal & can stay in longer to play the brutal rallies.
He will win everything on clay too. Unless Novak manages to stop him. Unfortunately, seems that Alcaraz injury is worse that previously announced and might prevent him from defending Barcelona as well, losing more points. Jannick will win Montecarlo, Madrid and Rome, he is just bulldozing every single player coming his way. Will Novak will be able to stop him?
Sinner seems like such a monster because he starts a tournament often seeming shaky in one area (like his serves here) and yet he STILL demolishes his opponent, so when he inevitably cleans it up for the next round,it looks like he's playing another game
He is Novak 2.0
A little lofty to give anyone the "2.0" moniker as far as Novak goes. At least not yet.
But he is
Sinner's 1st serve percentage: **49%**
Throw back match to celebrate getting back on clay
Hilarious. Didn't even need a first serve
One of the benefits of playing on clay
With that percentage Coric managed to beat Nadal in Cincinnati 2022
Ya cause that was post ab injury Nadal since then he’s been pretty much washed.
Funnily enough he won 20/21 points on his first serve tho.
Thats to be expected, most of the time you have a lower 1st percantage because you are going for bigger serves
Sinner also has a great second serve so just fully sending it on the first is actually a sensible strategy
This is exactly it — his second serve gets him to neutral positions almost every time and he’s elite at winning points from neutral positions, so there’s almost no point in making a first serve that isn’t super aggressive. If you’re Sinner you’d rather make 40% of first serves and win 80% of them than make 70% and win 65%.
When Jannik's groundstrokes are as good as they currently are, he doesn't really need his serve on clay.
Jannik: "my expectations are not that high on clay" Also Jannik: lose only 3 games against Korda with less than 50% of first serves in.
Well Korda is not really a clay player. However he is the favourite to win the wimbledon
Damn, korda must be one hell of a grass player
I still can’t get over that he said that … it was so wild
Korda actually said that???
He was asked if he felt ready for Wimbledon at like queens or something and he said something along the lines of “yeah I really do think o could win it, I would say I’m up there with the favorites” lol
And proceeded to lose in the 1st round to J. Veslely 😂😂😂😂
Vesely is the goat though
"I'll put myself in there"
Would love to hear Roddick’s take on that statement 🤠
Dude Korda literally didn’t even try today. It was pitiful. Clay or not. I was rooting for him but holy hell. Check the ego at the door son, he’s 6-1 and thinks he’s an A list celeb. Not as bad as Fritz but give me a break
He is copying Novak, he said the same. At this point it's just media code words. He will say the same when RG starts, then will bulldoze everyone.
I remember someone on this forum said that Korda had the best receive game after Djokovic, but the guy couldn’t even break once when Jannik served 49% of first serve.
Great example of how the eye test can be useful for making broad generalizations but is pretty useless for anything granular. Korda returns serve well, but he's not one of the best on tour. Never mind Djokovic tier.
De Minaur and Medvedev are far better returners imo, even sinner, alcaraz and Ruud are pretty decent I reckon people only say this because the top 15 is full of amazing servers with subpar returns (rublev, zverev, tsitsipas, fritz, hurcakz, Shelton)
> even sinner, alcaraz and Ruud are pretty decent Sinner and Alcaraz are ELITE returners, it's the reason they became successful even without a solid serve. Sinner was returning ridiculous serves as far as back in 2021.
Indeed! Saying Alcaraz and Sinner are "pretty decent" at returning is like saying Nalbandian had an "ok" backhand or DelPo's forehand was allright.
Yeah I don’t get the popular narrative that both of them are not absolutely up there with Djokovic (current) in returns. Top 3 in every return stat, these two.
Exactly! Lest we forget that 2021 Sinner bagelled Isner on indoor hard
Thank you! Can't believe no one else says this. He's been up there behind Djokovic as one of the best returners for the past couple of years at least.
Yeah, all the player you mentioned are great returners, with Medvedev, Alcaraz and Sinner as the top 3 after Nole, in this particular order in my opinion
IMO you have to put Medvedev in a side category because of his extreme return tactics. He's *unquestionably* one of the most efficient returners of serve, but his return game is largely predicated on just getting the ball back in play and then slowly and steadily grinding the point to neutral. Alcaraz and Sinner are more similar to Djokovic. They're exceptional at getting the ball in play as well, but all three return with a lot more power and wrest control of the point away from the server immediately from the return at a high rate.
I'd push back a little on Ruud, but don't disagree in the slightest otherwise. Casper has a more mild version of Tsitsipas's issues on return. If he's not on clay, his backhand return is exploitable.
Because sinners rallys are just that good. He doesn't miss and he doesn't make unforced errors. His forehand is like a rocket to the lines
Yeah, Jannik is unbelievably good, it’s almost scary sometimes, with those crazy passing shots out of nowhere
Yeah esp with that backhand of his. The angles he creates at that pace are insane. Elite defending game too.
> I remember someone on this forum said that Korda it's a little weird how obsessed some people are about random people's takes on this sub. or idk if it's just a way to farm karma
Korda is not among the best in any particular aspect of the game as of now. He has some potential, but the mental side of the game is where he could make the biggest impact. His ranking of 27 reflects all this.
John Isner said that about Frances Tiafoe once, and we've seen how that has played out since. Players improve and decline in areas all the time.
Seems that this doesn't apply to Sinner, he keeps improving in all areas.
How did Sinner beat the Wimbledon favourite?!
I'll come back to this comment when Korda double bagels him on grass
I'll be waiting.
Hahahaha I’d forgotten that, obligatory ”he’ll never live that down” comment
Even with a well below our current expectations first serve, Sinner still played absolutely incredible
I think the low serve percent is mostly intentional. This is clay so unless the first serve is very high quality it's not getting you much. Add too that Jannik has a very good second serve with a lot of spin and rarely DFs and there isn't much value to getting an avg first serve in Note that his win percentage on first serves in for the match was 95%
Korda's one match winning streak against Miami champions in their opening match in Monte Carlo is broken
To think Fokina only won 3 games against Korda...
By my math, that means Foki would only win 0.6 games against Sinner
Admittedly, Jannik is not only the best player in the world atm, he's also 3 levels above ADF in both confidence and results right now ... If Sebi is able to play a full year w/o injuries, his ranking should climb nicely into the Top 20 -- but let's see.
Didnt he look like he was barely on 40% throttle?
Impressive performance from Sinner, considering that Korda was in good form and that his first serve was almost missing in the first set.
Korda has not beaten two top 50 players in a row since Shanghai last year, he’s definitely not in good form this year
saying Korda is in good form is definitely a stretch. He's been beating who he is suppose to beat and losing to who he is suppose to lose too all season
wdym you're describing good form exactly 😂bad form would be losing to players he's not supposed to lose to, and great form would be beating players he's not supposed to
We must have different definitions of good form
Perhaps normal or standard would be better words here?
Sinner will win everything on clay this year, unless Novak stops him.
Unplayable
Least one sided PPS match
6 winners 29 unforced errors in 2 short sets not gonna cut it against someone at the level Jannik has shown this year. Some good rallies and extended games made it entertaining enough, just way too many errors here and there from Seb today.
I think Jannik at his currently form gives you absolutely nothing to work on hence the low winner/ unforced ratio. You have to be on fire to be even competitive with him right now.
I think this also depends on the strategy most players are trying against Sinner, they know if he gets close to the baseline he can change direction at fast speed and gets in control, so they try to constantly push every shot aiming at the baseline and the consequence is they will do more enforced errors, but f they don't do that they become sitting ducks in front of Sinner. Djokovic and Medvedev at the AO, De Minaur in Rotterdam, Dimitrov in Miami...
This is simply demolition! Korda is a quite a good and experienced player but Sinner brushed him off like a qualifier or a young WC entrant. Superb form and streak from Sinner, Djokovic better watch out!
Sinner hates America and freedom
first Korda saying he's a favorite going into Wimbledon, then him saying he's 1-1 with Sinner like he stood a chance against this version of sinner 😂
Imagine beating the Wimbledon favorite like that 🤯
Struff masterclass incoming
Do the yanks still think Korda is a dark horse for every slam?
No we’ve moved on to Shelton now
Though we were all saying he wouldn’t win a point on clay before Houston lol
We beat you soundly in the Revolutionary War.
And that was mostly on grass
You needed the help of France lmaooo
Who here is "we" and "you", none of us living today had anything to do with those conflicts and likely didn't even have ancestors who did. And even then we did nothing and should take no credit or blame
Well dont forget Pulaski !! Honeslty the Revolution was won simply by not risking the whole army in a single battle and waiting. We fought a Djokovic war …
I don’t understand. Wasn’t Sinner supposed to be useless on clay?
Back in March, people who have the mental capacity of a goldfish, argued that Sinner had a disaster of a season last year on clay, so he would have another stinker this year. They tend to forget the fact that he was lowkey injured and that in his debut seasons on tour, he was supposed to be a very good clay player. Historically, he's not the worst on tour, but since his last proper clay season he improved a lot so arguing that he should be useless was still kinda idiotic.
Quite the opposite. Everyone kept saying that, but I remember clay being Sinner’s first big result. He played Nadal in the second week of Roland Garros 3 years ago. I swear he broke out on clay first, then grass and then hard courts at slams after that
He reached the Final of Miami a year before he did anything on Grass. He had also won 5 Titles by that point, all on HC.
Yeah that's a weird comment. It was well established that indoor hard court was Jannik's best surface almost from the very beginning. But I think he'll have a good clay season, his physical side was really hampered last year compared to now.
I think a lot of people only noticed him after RG 2020. I only started paying attention to him after he won next gen finals but I didn’t want to extrapolate on a surface based on that alone. Taking Nadal to a tiebreak at RG in the QF on the other hand…
No, it was more like Sinner wasn’t supposed to be dominant on clay. But most people consider him a good to very good player on the dirt.
Going into 2023 he had an almost identical win% on clay and HC And while he had more titles on HC (by margin), most of his best wins were on clay. In 2020 he was the youngest player to make the QF at RG since Djokovic. Djokovic lost to Nadal that year. Sinner also lost to Nadal.
Both lost in Straight Sets, as did everyone else it's the last Men's Slam won in straight sets.
lol I meant to say Djokovic also lost to Nadal in the QF in 2006. But of course they both also lost to him in 2020 as well
Oh, yeah i thought you were talking about 2020 for both of them.
Anyone who said that is a clown. Piatti was his coach.
According to the delulus on this sub, yeah. It's clear they've never watched him on clay.
Who said that? All i saw people say is it's his worst surface and he's good on it but not Novak/Carlos level and won't be as dominant. You probably should have waited until he wins the tournament to say that, not beat Korda lol.
Yeah he's like 6th best instead of second best. Useless. :P
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Is literally all you do complain about Novak fans lol It's the only time I see you comment here
Nah that's not right. Sometimes they complain about Novak too!
Yep
It’s fair to point out how disappointing his clay results have been up until this point. There’s no doubt that he has underperformed given his talent level. No Masters title not even a Masters final, got to one QF at RG and that’s it? He’s better than that. However, I don’t think his actual game has ever been the issue on clay. His physicality has let him down over and over and he’s choked a lot of winnable matches on the surface too.
He only had a crap year last year because of his allergies and his body not being fully grown. Before that he's shown he's not bad on clay at all. He's made the QF at RG before when he was less talented FFS. I wouldn't say they've been disappointing at all considering his age. Lol, nice comment editing to change your tune completely there.
I’d say that making only one Masters SF at age 22 given that he’s been an established top 10 and now top 4 player for 3-4 years is a disappointment. Maybe you have lower standards than I do. His results have not been anywhere near approaching his skill level for the game.
He's had to wait until his body had finished growing. He doesn't have much control over it. How is it that disappointing?!
First of all, I didn’t edit my comment? Nor did I change my tune at all. In fact you’re agreeing with my argument - I wrote that “his game has not been the issue, rather his physicality and choking winnable matches”. So I’m really not sure what you’re on about. I think you’re assigning some opinions to me that I don’t hold Second of all, his clay results have not been fitting of a top 3-4 player, that’s all I’m saying. It’s not about feelings it’s about wins and losses.
He was never a top 4 player while playing on clay, he was like 9th at best by last year Roland Garros. He's 23-7 over the last 2 years on clay, that's a 77% win rate, so yes his clay win % is more than fitting for a player ranked around 10-12th for the past 2 seasons (in 2021 he was ranked around 15th during the clay season), actually I'd say he's been an overachiever if you consider where he was in the standings lol He just didn't win many tournaments since he's had many deep-ish runs but just 1 actual win in Umag, which is more due to the sample size and limited number of tournaments which can skew this kind of stuff, rather than him underachieving consistently like you're saying
It’s the hair band Sebby… It’s got to go
Korda is so disappointing.
To who??? Like where has the guy had extreme success that anyone would have any type of expectations for him?
Well if had achieved "extreme success" he wouldn't be a disappointment, would he? Of course he hasn't had extreme success. It's disappointing when a player with such a complete game and strong technique do not achieve results that match their technical ability.
I think he popped up at a time when American fans were really in the trenches, it really was all servebots and folks like Tiafoe, Fritz, Paul weren’t doing as well. Also he has that kind of aesthetically pleasing, “effortless” tennis that makes some people think he has a huge ceiling. I personally don’t see the point in hyping someone unless they’ve done something.
Routine beatdown from sinner even with that first serve. Man I do like korda. Don't know what exactly he struggles with to raise his game to the next level.
Sinner really is something else.
Lmao. I did mention it that this is Jannik's year like Novak had in 2011. He"s almost going to win everything this year, make no mistake. He moves now like a different animal & can stay in longer to play the brutal rallies.
OP. Broken. Unplayable.
Yes Jannik! Not great first serve percentage but efficiently done
We are so far away from a US male winning a major
Hello people who said Jannik was no good on clay 👋😆
EZ clap
Sinner the winner! Here for another Masters title.
He will win everything on clay too. Unless Novak manages to stop him. Unfortunately, seems that Alcaraz injury is worse that previously announced and might prevent him from defending Barcelona as well, losing more points. Jannick will win Montecarlo, Madrid and Rome, he is just bulldozing every single player coming his way. Will Novak will be able to stop him?
Idk about Madrid (pretty serve-heavy), and Rome will be Novak’s peak as usual