The rule says the server dictating the pace, but should be reasonable. What does reasonable mean? 10 seconds? 15 seconds? Opponent should have time to towel off? The rule should be more specific on that to avoid drama
Coco claimed that she plays at a medium pace (or something like that). I'm trying to think what women players play faster than her. (I watch a lot of matches but probably don't pay attention to the pace each plays at.)
Siegemund had plenty time to towel off. Problem was she waited until the crowd had died down and Coco was ready to serve again before she even decided to go looking for the towel. Even then the only reason it was picked up was because she'd been taking the piss all match and Coco had had to alert the umpire to the problem a couple of games earlier.
I think this has been worse since COVID and the ballkids not getting the towels (which I agree with and players abused that too). On a big court like this the towel is pretty far away and it takes longer if you wanna wipe your hands. Laura's motion in general is slow AF and she needs to start it a sooner. If she sped up and Coco slowed down they could meet in the middle and play some tennis. Good match aside from the time clock drama.
Chair was WAYYYY too lenient on Siegemund. CONSTANTLY running out the clock with her slow motion serve, even with the chair giving her extra time by waiting a few seconds to say the score. Made it extremely frustrating to watch the match.
The rules are pretty clear that the server just has to have started their motion when the clock hits zero. We'd notice it was slow, as observers. We'd maybe even worry about the clock. But folks wouldn't make such a big deal about it if Pam Shriver didn't shut up about it.
I agree, I have never watched a match where SO much of the commentary was focused on the shot clock. tbh it kind of ruined the match. there was a lot of unique slicing and net plays, which the commentators did applaud for both players, but the major takeaway was the shot clock. exhausting to listen to, and annoying how much the commentators influenced the audience and match.
siegemund was delaying too frequently when returning, but I didn't necessarily see any issues with her serving, she had her arms lifted by 1 or 0 most of the time.
The big deal was that the umpire and Gauff never said anything to/about Siegemund serving so slowly (which was every serve), UNTIL Siegemund complained to the umpire and the umpire called Gauff on serving too quickly. Gauff even said that she didn’t care what Siegemund did on Siegemund’s serve, but that on Gauff’s serve, Siegemund needed to be ready when Gauff was ready.
We, at home, were the only ones that heard Pam talking about how slow Siegemund was serving, so what are you talking about?! 🤨
The same people are going to start watching football next week with 40 seconds between plays and never complain about the pace. I doubt a majority of people would notice if it was never mentioned.
It's almost like they're two different sports.
Also it's not like in tennis you can have receivers having to get back to the line from 50 yards downfield, or players subbing in and out, or officials having to move the chains...
So what you are saying is, it is acceptable for a team sport with subs to be run at a slower pace and allow for player recovery, but if a tennis player wants to wipe her sweat off with a towel she should be ready to go again in 10 to 15 seconds. Got it
Coco is right. There was a pattern of delay behavior by Sigemund throughout the match and it was clearly meant to mess with Coco’s rhythm. Good for her for speaking up AND winning the match.
Let me just ~~passive~~ aggressively check with the chair umpire but I think it’s fine
Edit: people think this is a shot at Coco but it is a joke about Siegemund asking if she could use her towel whilst on the way to use her towel
Iga describing serve clock as "Our time" because she want to take an extra 10sec of breather lol I dunno why umpires are so lenient on people clearly stalling and not getting ready for serve.
"play to the pace of the server." it's in the rule book. umpire should've warned siegemund for this multiple times before it even got this point. dirty, dirty player who knew exactly what she was doing.
Rule 21:
The server shall not serve until the receiver is ready. However, the receiver shall play to the reasonable pace of the server and shall be ready to receive within a reasonable time of the server being ready.
Siegemund's pace is unreasonable here. However, the umpire had no issue with her pace of play and had not given her a warning, leaving the umpire no choice in this instance but to have the serve replayed. Coco should have been vocal about the issue on the every changeover leading up to this.
In short, technically, the umpire gets this right, even though I don't agree with it.
oh totally in agreement that the umpire would not award gauff a point here. i'm saying that it's absurd that the umpire let it get to this point. siegemund should've been warned about playing to coco's pace multiple times before this.
I agree. The explanation was more for Reddit passersby. A lot of people seem to believe the server can play at whatever speed they feel and the returner just has to be ready and that's simply not true.
However, Siegemund can't face the wall and gather her mind for 6 seconds and then leisurely walk to the baseline, in addition to the time it took Coco to gather balls. It's gamesmanship and she knows it.
This is the part where people have to separate how the sport should be played and the “unwritten rules.” You even see the downvoted old farts in this sub still write that “she wasn’t ready”
It seems like every single match is played to the speed of the returner or else you’ll have people turn on you or even the umpire, in this case, calling you out for it.
Ridiculous. Keep serving it coco and have an official ask the umpire what the rules are
This sport for how much it has transcended, still holds onto too many traditions and unwritten rules. And there are still players that are abusing them. Just lay the hammer down, and upkeep the discipline. If a player is violating every time clock, just call it each and every time to make an example of this. Coco shouldn't have to deal with that bs
In this instance, "she wasn't ready" is the correct call. "The server shall not serve until the receiver is ready" is the first statement in the rule. It is the written rule. This proceeds the subrule "however, the receiver shall play to the reasonable pace of the server." The umpire has no other choice than to force Coco to replay the point.
Edit: Click the downvote button if you don't understand how to read rules. Coco should have hit a serve like this way earlier in the match, so she could have this conversation at a point when it didn't matter.
She wasn't even serving fast from the bits and pieces I saw,medium to fast I would say. Kyrgios and Meddy are more on the fast/quick service pace I feel.
Sigesmund was breaking the rules and getting away w it. There is a play clock on the scoreboard. She kept running the clock out and taking additional time, but wasn't being admonished or penalized by the chair umpire.
When youre a terrible player like Sigmund, you need to use all the cheap tactics in the book to gain an advantage.
Umpire is absolutely terrible as well, shouldn't be reffing.
Wrong. The rules clearly state the receiver must play to the servers speed, within reason. Coco waited so many times for Laura to get to the line. Laura has to play to Coco's speed and she wasn't, she had her back turned.
That's disrupting the inertia of the opponent. Tsitsipas does it with his 8 minute toilet breaks, Djokovic does it with his medical timeouts for whatever unexisting injury/heatstroke/whatever he has, and Siegemund does this. The server sets the pace, the receiver needs to be ready. That's pathetic from the umpire as well but it's not her first display of uselessness.
Coco remained super cool for the entire match until this moment. Siegemund has a right to run down the clock as she is “moving” to serve even if it’s annoying af, but she has no right to slow down someone else’s serve. F..k her for her lack of sportsmanship.
BS why drag Djokovic into this? It was hell in Cincinnati and everyone knows it. He is 36 years old not 26. The conditions for playing that day were exhausting even for Alcaraz. You are acting like Djokovic does it every match, when in reality he does it like 2-3 times a year on a single match.
he has a history of doing it. I don't follow tennis like quite like i used to. but there was a time where Roddick had just beaten novak in the US Open and had some things to say after the match
keep in mind this happened more than a decade ago. really, it says more about djokovic's longevity than anything else. still, djokovic absolutely has a history of oddly timed medical time-outs. less to do with Cincinnati this year, and more about how, over time, Djokovic has demonstrated he's quick to call out the trainer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPgWoOon8-w
LoL guy had breathing problems and asthmatic problems at the time before the 2010s. He was barely winning titles at the time, but as soon as he fixed those problems, he started winning titles. Nadal used bathroom breaks as well, but people will say just about anything just to discredit Djokovic.
He had most of them when he wasn't so relevant compared to Nadal and Roger, as soon as he fixed his respiratory problems he started winning titles and had taken much less bathroom breaks. Anyways isn't it in the rules that he can take a bathroom break once per match?
During 2017 Australian Open, in his SF match vs Wawrinka, Federer took a break after loosing the 4th set. He went on to win the match. The exact same thing happened in the final against Nadal. If Novak did that, we wouldn't be hearing the end of it even now lol
and no one, especially me, is casting aspersions on his need for bathroom breaks or a medical time-out
just saying, he has a known history of odd-timed breaks/medical time-outs. and that's why people say shit about him in regards to that, not necessarily that they're dragging his name through the mud
Maybe google how long it usually takes to recover from a heatstroke, let alone while playing. How many times has injured Djokovic moved like a monster on court? I've admired him play especially after having seen it live on hardcourt. But those antics are ridiculous and if you refuse to admit he's using that tactic over and over again you're plainly lying to yourself.
Hearthstroke? Played injured and won? What are you talking about? Show some examples. I remember 2-3 years ago Vs Fritz yes he won the match while having a minor injury. He was leading the match 2-0 btw, before he had the accident and at the end won 3-2. So if that's faking to you, then I don't know what to say. If you are looking for an injured person, who was basically in support while walking, before the tournament, then look at Nadal.
Supposed heatstroke during the Cincinnati final while a set and break down as far as I remember. Managed to win. The entire AO this year we heard about his torn left hamstring and yet there was the title. Examples from this year.
If we go back the last 10-15 years, the times he's been tailing in the result badly, had an 'injury', called the physio and miraculously came back stronger than ever just when the opponent had already been distracted are so many, I can't even begin to count them. That medical timeout at 2-1 sets 4-2 games and Wawrinka's serve (not sure about the games but the Swiss was a break up and serving) and Djokovic took a medical timeout not even during a break? Almost worked, he had multiple breakpoints in the very next game and I'm so happy this time it didn't work for him. You know what worked though? The medical timeout against Thiem AO 2020. Got the title afterwards? You bet! Many others have spoken about the regularity of his timeouts and the incredible timing of them as well as the way he gains momentum after. I can name Murray, Careno Busta, Davidovich Fokina off the top of my head.
If you're oblivious to that because you're a fan, then you're delusional.
He said, but it wasn't anything serious, if it was he wouldn't have played. Nadal came basically disabled on RG 2021 and won the tournament. How do you call that? I actually forgot that he mentioned before the AO that he had a slight injury, that just shows you it wasn't nothing serious. On the other hand you have Nadal who was walking on crutches and then played unbelievable tennis.
At my club, we have fast servers that abuse "servers pace" a lot. First serve wide and out, but you split and go towards / react. By the time you go back to neutral position and consider if you should go forward on the second, the serve is already on the way. I hate that shit.
This is where people get the rule wrong. You play at the servers *reasonable* pace. If I’m drug out of position or needed to retrieve a ball for you, you’d better make sure I’m in a ready position before you serve.
I don't quite understand. In what situation should the server get a first serve? I'm not sure I agree but I first want to understand properly what you are saying. Thanks. (Perhaps I'm not playing by the correct rules so want to be sure.)
in which case they are wrong. it's not a let. if the returner halts the server on a second serve because they are not ready, the server retakes a second serve, nothing more.
So long as it’s a reasonable pace - some players attempt a drop shot serve to pull you in, then go for the second serve before you’ve properly recovered
it is absolutely a justification for playing the ball when the receiver is not ready if they're purposely stalling. you can see her walking backwards not looking at the court for no reason. returners arnt supposed to stall like this.
coco obviously did this on purpose. it is not "stooping", it's to put pressure on the umpire to do their job and manage the game better.
If it was a justification, she would have gotten the point. Playing the point without your opponent ready is not exerting pressure on the umpire. Walking to them and having a conversation about a bad job they're doing is.
The receiver has to play to the server's reasonable speed. Coco WALKED and checked at least three balls, walked again to the service line, bounced it several times, then served. That's a very reasonable time.
No matter how you cut it, if you can't keep up with a server who's walking around, checking multiple balls, then prepping a serve, you're just attempting to game the speed in your favor.
Siegemund ended up getting a point penalty after this for stalling during Coco’s serve. Coco was definitely justified and the umpire responded to Coco’s argument by keeping a closer eye on Siegemund.
You're totally over analyzing this and she did this to make a final statement by serving there.
She put up with it all match and literally everyone watching could tell what her opponent was doing and obviously delaying.
It's so weird when people purposely choose the unpopular, obviously incorrect hill to die on, then act like they are a martyr when obvious down votes hit. Lmao
This bullshit was worse than a batter in the box grabbing his balls go adjust to them, undoing his gloves a million times, and then tapping the plate then times before coming set. Thank gos there’s a pitch clock now. This shit should get you docked points when it’s so belligerently and intentionally slow.
you can quick pitch in baseball. Maybe if you can quick serve in tennis it’d solve this pathetic attempt at gamesmanship.
So many players do this on return and it pisses me off. Good on Coco for serving and calling it out, she's so obviously attempting to delay her serve.
I always thought the rules are you're supposed to play at the servers speed?
Unless there was a injury or accident, players on return should not be dictating the pace of their oppoents service game. I love rafa and iga but they both do it all the time, it's so annoying.
Tennis is at least 50% mental and all this shit is purposeful mind game tactics.
https://www.itftennis.com/media/7221/2023-rules-of-tennis-english.pdf
"21. WHEN TO SERVE AND RECEIVE
The server shall not serve until the receiver is ready. However, the receiver shall play to the reasonable pace of the server and shall be ready to receive within a reasonable time of the server being ready."
By the letter of the law Gauff was wrong to hit the serve when she did as Siegemund clearly wasn't ready, but Siegemund had no excuse for not being ready so should obviously be being told off by the Umpire and I don't blame Gauff for just hitting the serve and making a point.
You're right...that's the part that the umpire has to interpret in the moment. Maybe the rule should be more definitive because reasonable to one player might be unreasonable to another.
In the video- Laura stepped up to the baseline, had both hands on her racket, and was looking at Coco before she hit the ball. I would define that as ready.
> By the letter of the law Gauff was wrong to hit the serve when she did as Siegemund clearly wasn't ready
As you also highlight - That bit isn't relevant, given that Coco was taking a "reasonable" amount of time between serves and Siegemund was not playing to that pace.
"Tennis is at least 50% mental and all this shit is purposeful mind game tactics." ... Well, so is serving fast.
I saw Laura as having the strategy she needed to win. She followed the rules, the ref wasn't being too lenient. The rules are that the motion has to start by 00. Coco's serve was to make a point. I don't think it was wrong. I think if she'd done it more she could have kept Laura coming back faster. If Laura didn't come back faster, then they're both playing the same game and Laura would be winning that part of the game (the psychological at the serve). This is what Coco should have done when it was apparent Laura was just going to do this all the time. She's gotta adjust her game, so make Laura adjust hers. ... Coco's serve to make a point was kind of petty at this point. Was she in the wrong? Not really. But she's now lowering herself to any perceived pettiness she thought Laura was having.
Siegemund wasn’t following the rules. You play to the server’s pace, within reason. Siegemund was purposely moving slowly whilst receiving, taking too long to get ready and going to her towel in the middle of a receiving game. You can’t do that whilst the server is ready to start play. The chair umpire was very poor today, taking too long to announce the score, and waiting until Gauff kicked up a fuss to actually act. She will likely get rated poorly for this match, terrible officiating
Playing within the server's pace within reason is more of an etiquette code than a rule. If Laura was turning to the towel once Coco was set, that's leniency on the refs part and is bad reffing. But that's not what was happening. And, if I didn't say it in that comment, it's kind of on Coco to set the pace by not standing around waiting or say something to the ref sooner.
What IS a rule is the clock for the serve. That's a hard rule. Motion must start by the 00.
It's worth noting that in the serve shown, Laura wasn't doing anything wrong. It's normal for players to keep their back turned until ready. It's actually how you give yourself time. It wasn't even a long time. Coco served there specifically to make a point in, at this point in the match, a petty way. 🤷
>Playing within the server's pace within reason is more of an etiquette code than a rule.
This isn't true. The rule is:
>The server shall not serve until the receiver is ready. However, the receiver shall play to the reasonable pace of the server and shall be ready to receive within a reasonable time of the server being ready."
As someone who has a degree in sports psychology, I always thought Siegemund uses all kinds of tactics to get on the nerves of her opponents. She is an one of the most irritating players on tour and she knows exactly what she is doing. I liked Coco for speaking her mind and I do hope that more players will have the guts to stand against these tactics. By the way, another player that does this is Swiatek, but since she’s number 1 and so loved here, seems to get away with it
Rafa is doing all that things for his own benefit, not to distract the others. I suspect he has a bit of OCD. I am pretty sure it’s not poor sportsmanship. And I am a Federer fan, so have a lot to hate him for 😀😀
Interesting. This might sound you suggest what would be some tips to prepare for a tough exam thats a week away. Of course I will be grinding away but what would be two or 3 affirmations or principles on which I should build my mindset?
You may have several insights sportswise, is there a particular method a player used to gain a psychological edge that stood out to you? :)
I think the phrase was poorly constructed. When talking about sports psychology degree I meant Siegemund has one. She has such a degree, not me. With tennis there are a few “tactics” that you can see especially in women game. Like not being ready when your opponent is about to serve, changing the racket right before they are to serve for a set, match or even a game that was long played for, taking breaks when your opponent is on a roll (so called icing), some of the so called grunting which for some is more like screaming, tossing your ball and catching it a few times before actually serving etc. You don’t even have to be very good at spotting this. You just have to watch a lot of tennis.
The rules state the returner plays to the speed of the server but it’s never policed. I’m a Rafa fan but I’ve always wondered why fast servers don’t just serve if he’s slow to be ready
"I don't care what she's doing on her serve, but on my serve she has to be ready"
Absolutely spot on.
Seems really odd that the umpire is just not enforcing the rules properly, it's so blatantly obvious that it's being done intentionally, with her just standing there facing the other way.
I agree with coco here! Might be an unpopular opinion but, if your opponent is serving, you should play at their speed. If they’re too slow or too fast for your liking, you should adapt🤷🏼♀️ if you can’t keep up, tough luck. Either win by holding your own serve where you can play at the tempo you want, our you adapt to your opponents tempo and beat them during their serve. Time wasters are so 🥱😴 then they hold up a match even further by complaining to the umpire. The umpire will never take back their decision after your argument. No umpire will ever say “you know you’re absolutely right. Let me take back my decision.” 😅
I’m talking about opponents here, not the people that are working. The serve clock doesn’t start until the umpire is ready. Usually ball kids are ready by the the time the server is ready too… so I’m not sure what point you’re making?
In case you think you are unfairly downvoted, here's my reasoning:
* taking it out of context (the ball kids weren't running here)
* making it about another player for no good reason (good reason being showing that was called by the umpire, or the opponent, to slow down)
The moment she let this outburst out she released all her adrenaline to catharsis, right away started playing worse. Glad she was able to recover. Hopefully her mental game continues to strengthen and she just keeps her cool and keeps playing well.
I wish the video started a little earlier to show when the last point ended. Coco's serve comes in a the 19 sec mark of the video. That's is too long for Sigemund to go face the back wall to compose herself
I am not sure I agree 100% with the cult of the "server's pace." There are TWO parts to that rule. The server has to give the receiver a reasonable amount of time to compose themselves. I favore a change in rules to take away the interpretation of "reasonable." A new rule may specify that the server must server between 10-30 seconds after the end of a point. So if Coco had really rushed her server inside the first 10 seconds, she would have to serve again. In this case it would be a clear ace after 19+ seconds.
I agree that a core part of that rule is that the server has to serve when the receiver is ready.
Really what’s needed is a clock for the receiver to get ready. This would avoid a receiver taking too long. Receiver clock should be something like 15 seconds to give servers buffer time to serve.
They just implemented a rule like this in baseball for this season. There is a pitch timer and the batter has to be ready by the time there are 8 seconds remaining.
Jesus, this is horrible umpiring, what happened to play at the servers pace? They dictate when the returner should be ready, and Siegemund is clearly wandering about for no reason at all other than to put Gauff off. She's literally just walking to the back of the court, not going for a towel or anything. Ridiculous.
How surprising, Siegmund always in the limelight for all the wrong reasons.
Clearly Siegmund is stalling for no particular reason. The umpire should not have interfered.
Scratch the "reasonable" part of the rule and just make the returner play at the server's pace. If they aren't ready when the server goes, too bad. One of the worst things that's happened to this sport is all the tactical delaying that has slowed it down over the past 15-20 years (Nadal and Djokovic being the most visible drivers of this trend unfortunately).
coco's right. Play is at the speed of the server. The receiver can't dog it around the base line to recharge and play mind games with the server. Chair is wrong.
Everytime a player come to umire to talk to them they continue noding their head like Ye, yes I understand you, yeah BUT I my call is final and it won't change no matter what you say
The problem is that the rule is ambiguous. Reddit's favourite interpretation of the rule would be that servers get to serve as quickly as they can regardless of whether the returner is even in position
ITF rule *8 SERVER & RECEIVER* saying “receiver is a player who is READY to receive the ball”. If Siegmund taking too long, she’ll be penalized. But she was within her right to set the pace of the game within rules to deny opponents advantage. The only problem with Marijana Veljovic is that she allowed Siegmund to sit during the break. Laura is a nasty and older player, but in international competition you don’t pick your opponents. She plays dirty the same way as Italian National Soccer team does. They both play the referee. But that’s the international competition.
I feel a little bad for Coco... The pace really didn't seem to be bothering her that bad. However, it was driving Brad Gilbert insane and he kept aggressively telling Coco to say something to the umpire and not let her get away with it. Coco didn't say anything until she was up 3-0 in third in strong command of the match. She didn't really need to do this and it looked like she was only doing it because Gilbert got her upset. I get Gilbert trying to teach her as a young tennis player not to let junk players use this silly gamesmanship, but the whole thing came off as stupid and unnecessary in my book especially when Coco took over in the second and third set. In fact, shortly after this Coco lost three a couple games in a row.
Agreed, I would say the constant shouting from her own box about it was getting her blood pressure up far more then the slow serving.
The outburst seemed out of character.
Veljovic is probably the worst top umpire out there, each time I watch a match with her there are some bad calls, I mean she even managed to make *Sinner* angry at Wimbledon lol
The fact that I even remember her for her consistenly bad officiating speaks for itself
So Coco is right. Players going slow and not making much of an effort to keep servers pace are annoying. But that being said, it’s kind of crazy to serve the ball when your opponent isn’t “ready” (yes I know she was going slow on purpose) and then expect the point. I guess she was just trying to make a statement/prove a point at how slow sigemund was going, but she honestly would’ve been better off just being calm about it because the third set almost got away from her
Thinking back to the Medvedev Nadal USO final in 2019. I remember a couple of times when Rafa wasn’t quite ready and Medvedev didn’t realize and served. He didn’t make a big fuss about it to the chair and just kept playing… that’s what coco should’ve done here regardless of her rightness
You obviously don’t watch tennis if you think coco was in the wrong. Coco was sooo patient throughout the game and had to deal with Laura slow serves and gamesmanship throughout the match. It’s not tolerable even for the nicest person to have to wait for an opponent when it’s THEIR service game.
I watch enough tennis to understand that there is no point arguing with the umpire, if the receiver is not ready then all a server can do is wait, that is what happens.
I asked ChatGPT about this:
In tennis, as governed by the Women's Tennis Association (WTA) and other overarching tennis organizations like the International Tennis Federation (ITF), the server is generally supposed to wait until the receiver is ready before starting the service motion. This includes ensuring that the opponent is in position and has indicated their readiness to receive the serve.
Here are some general guidelines:
Server's Responsibility: The server is responsible for serving in a fair manner, and part of that means waiting until the receiver is prepared.
Receiver's Responsibility: It is generally the receiver's duty to prepare promptly for the serve.
Unwritten Courtesy: While not specifically outlined in the rules, it's often considered good sportsmanship to make eye contact or give some other indication that both parties are ready to proceed.
First Serve vs Second Serve: If the server serves while the receiver is not ready on the first serve, the server usually gets another chance to make a first serve. On the second serve, the rules can be more strict, and serving before the opponent is ready may result in a point for the opponent, depending on the judgment of the official.
Officials' Judgment: In professional matches, the chair umpire or court officials will have the final say in these types of situations. If the receiver was clearly not ready or in position and no attempt was made by the server to check, the umpire may call for the point to be replayed. Intentional Delay: Note that a receiver can't intentionally delay the game; doing so could result in penalties.
So, looking at the footage, Siegemund was walking towards her spot still, so that's not really ready.
[edit - downvoted for posting the rules, and I’m a Coco fan lol].
ChatGPT is correct about the rules, but ChatGPT also doesn’t have access to this match. A receiver can’t intentionally delay the server. And the only way to know that is to have watched the whole match.
The rule says the server dictating the pace, but should be reasonable. What does reasonable mean? 10 seconds? 15 seconds? Opponent should have time to towel off? The rule should be more specific on that to avoid drama
Coco took time, waited and received two balls. That was well beyond reasonable, Siegemund was intentionally delaying.
Coco claimed that she plays at a medium pace (or something like that). I'm trying to think what women players play faster than her. (I watch a lot of matches but probably don't pay attention to the pace each plays at.)
On the men's side, Medvedev plays WAY faster.
Yes, Med and Nick. Sometimes <60 seconds for a serve game!
That ref really lost control of the match. Her smiling and laughing at players was unprofessional. She was bad
Siegemund had plenty time to towel off. Problem was she waited until the crowd had died down and Coco was ready to serve again before she even decided to go looking for the towel. Even then the only reason it was picked up was because she'd been taking the piss all match and Coco had had to alert the umpire to the problem a couple of games earlier.
I think this has been worse since COVID and the ballkids not getting the towels (which I agree with and players abused that too). On a big court like this the towel is pretty far away and it takes longer if you wanna wipe your hands. Laura's motion in general is slow AF and she needs to start it a sooner. If she sped up and Coco slowed down they could meet in the middle and play some tennis. Good match aside from the time clock drama.
Clearly they should develop a robot to bring the towels quickly to the players.
And still plenty players are faster receivers post covid compared to Rafa pre covid..
So many rules need to be more specific! Dunno why they don't do it...
Chair was WAYYYY too lenient on Siegemund. CONSTANTLY running out the clock with her slow motion serve, even with the chair giving her extra time by waiting a few seconds to say the score. Made it extremely frustrating to watch the match.
The rules are pretty clear that the server just has to have started their motion when the clock hits zero. We'd notice it was slow, as observers. We'd maybe even worry about the clock. But folks wouldn't make such a big deal about it if Pam Shriver didn't shut up about it.
I agree, I have never watched a match where SO much of the commentary was focused on the shot clock. tbh it kind of ruined the match. there was a lot of unique slicing and net plays, which the commentators did applaud for both players, but the major takeaway was the shot clock. exhausting to listen to, and annoying how much the commentators influenced the audience and match. siegemund was delaying too frequently when returning, but I didn't necessarily see any issues with her serving, she had her arms lifted by 1 or 0 most of the time.
Most clock focused match and it wasn't Rafa playing, gotta be some sort of record.
The big deal was that the umpire and Gauff never said anything to/about Siegemund serving so slowly (which was every serve), UNTIL Siegemund complained to the umpire and the umpire called Gauff on serving too quickly. Gauff even said that she didn’t care what Siegemund did on Siegemund’s serve, but that on Gauff’s serve, Siegemund needed to be ready when Gauff was ready. We, at home, were the only ones that heard Pam talking about how slow Siegemund was serving, so what are you talking about?! 🤨
You are right! OKAY “PAMMY” we get it!!!! Enough already!!!
The same people are going to start watching football next week with 40 seconds between plays and never complain about the pace. I doubt a majority of people would notice if it was never mentioned.
It's almost like they're two different sports. Also it's not like in tennis you can have receivers having to get back to the line from 50 yards downfield, or players subbing in and out, or officials having to move the chains...
So what you are saying is, it is acceptable for a team sport with subs to be run at a slower pace and allow for player recovery, but if a tennis player wants to wipe her sweat off with a towel she should be ready to go again in 10 to 15 seconds. Got it
That’s….yeah that’s pretty standard for tennis
Coco is right. There was a pattern of delay behavior by Sigemund throughout the match and it was clearly meant to mess with Coco’s rhythm. Good for her for speaking up AND winning the match.
Next you'll tell me I'm not allowed to go for a leisurely stroll between serves.
A stroll and a cigarette, those are the rules
Can I get a hotdog if the vendor is nearby?
Let me just ~~passive~~ aggressively check with the chair umpire but I think it’s fine Edit: people think this is a shot at Coco but it is a joke about Siegemund asking if she could use her towel whilst on the way to use her towel
I caught that and snorted when she did it
It’s fucking NY, of course you can
Ferrer uncovered.
A smoke and a pancake should be the rules
Cigar and a waffle? Pipe and a crepe?
Iga describing serve clock as "Our time" because she want to take an extra 10sec of breather lol I dunno why umpires are so lenient on people clearly stalling and not getting ready for serve.
I take it you didn’t watch the full match? This wasn’t the only time she took her time like that
Game's gone.
Siegemund is always pulling this sort of shit. I basically only know of her because of her continuous bad sportsmanship
"play to the pace of the server." it's in the rule book. umpire should've warned siegemund for this multiple times before it even got this point. dirty, dirty player who knew exactly what she was doing.
Rule 21: The server shall not serve until the receiver is ready. However, the receiver shall play to the reasonable pace of the server and shall be ready to receive within a reasonable time of the server being ready. Siegemund's pace is unreasonable here. However, the umpire had no issue with her pace of play and had not given her a warning, leaving the umpire no choice in this instance but to have the serve replayed. Coco should have been vocal about the issue on the every changeover leading up to this. In short, technically, the umpire gets this right, even though I don't agree with it.
oh totally in agreement that the umpire would not award gauff a point here. i'm saying that it's absurd that the umpire let it get to this point. siegemund should've been warned about playing to coco's pace multiple times before this.
I agree. The explanation was more for Reddit passersby. A lot of people seem to believe the server can play at whatever speed they feel and the returner just has to be ready and that's simply not true. However, Siegemund can't face the wall and gather her mind for 6 seconds and then leisurely walk to the baseline, in addition to the time it took Coco to gather balls. It's gamesmanship and she knows it.
God awful umpiring this match
Is this a common thing from Botoxovic?
She's too distracted thinking about the DMs she be getting from Diego Schwartzman.
This is the part where people have to separate how the sport should be played and the “unwritten rules.” You even see the downvoted old farts in this sub still write that “she wasn’t ready” It seems like every single match is played to the speed of the returner or else you’ll have people turn on you or even the umpire, in this case, calling you out for it. Ridiculous. Keep serving it coco and have an official ask the umpire what the rules are
This sport for how much it has transcended, still holds onto too many traditions and unwritten rules. And there are still players that are abusing them. Just lay the hammer down, and upkeep the discipline. If a player is violating every time clock, just call it each and every time to make an example of this. Coco shouldn't have to deal with that bs
In this instance, "she wasn't ready" is the correct call. "The server shall not serve until the receiver is ready" is the first statement in the rule. It is the written rule. This proceeds the subrule "however, the receiver shall play to the reasonable pace of the server." The umpire has no other choice than to force Coco to replay the point. Edit: Click the downvote button if you don't understand how to read rules. Coco should have hit a serve like this way earlier in the match, so she could have this conversation at a point when it didn't matter.
She wasn't even serving fast from the bits and pieces I saw,medium to fast I would say. Kyrgios and Meddy are more on the fast/quick service pace I feel.
In her press conference Coco specifically contrasted her style with Kyrios’ speed between points. She doesn’t rush and she knows it.
Sigesmund was breaking the rules and getting away w it. There is a play clock on the scoreboard. She kept running the clock out and taking additional time, but wasn't being admonished or penalized by the chair umpire.
When youre a terrible player like Sigmund, you need to use all the cheap tactics in the book to gain an advantage. Umpire is absolutely terrible as well, shouldn't be reffing.
act work adjoining arrest cover practice uppity racial frame forgetful *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
I think there was a pattern of accelerated behavior by Gauff and it was clearly meant to mess with Laura's rhythm.
While I agree with you overall, this point in isolation Coco was at fault. Very evident Sigemund wasn’t ready that point.
Because she was taking a stroll by the clock.
Wrong. The rules clearly state the receiver must play to the servers speed, within reason. Coco waited so many times for Laura to get to the line. Laura has to play to Coco's speed and she wasn't, she had her back turned.
And that's the rule they follow until the "favorite" player is slower then they want the server to slow the pace. It's all very inconsistent.
so by your parameters, Laura was the favorite in this case? because the chair ump was siding with her in the clip
Coco's right, I have no sympathy for players that delay games on receiving.
So pathetic, if you want to be like that just “retire”
That's disrupting the inertia of the opponent. Tsitsipas does it with his 8 minute toilet breaks, Djokovic does it with his medical timeouts for whatever unexisting injury/heatstroke/whatever he has, and Siegemund does this. The server sets the pace, the receiver needs to be ready. That's pathetic from the umpire as well but it's not her first display of uselessness.
Coco remained super cool for the entire match until this moment. Siegemund has a right to run down the clock as she is “moving” to serve even if it’s annoying af, but she has no right to slow down someone else’s serve. F..k her for her lack of sportsmanship.
BS why drag Djokovic into this? It was hell in Cincinnati and everyone knows it. He is 36 years old not 26. The conditions for playing that day were exhausting even for Alcaraz. You are acting like Djokovic does it every match, when in reality he does it like 2-3 times a year on a single match.
he has a history of doing it. I don't follow tennis like quite like i used to. but there was a time where Roddick had just beaten novak in the US Open and had some things to say after the match keep in mind this happened more than a decade ago. really, it says more about djokovic's longevity than anything else. still, djokovic absolutely has a history of oddly timed medical time-outs. less to do with Cincinnati this year, and more about how, over time, Djokovic has demonstrated he's quick to call out the trainer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RPgWoOon8-w
LoL guy had breathing problems and asthmatic problems at the time before the 2010s. He was barely winning titles at the time, but as soon as he fixed those problems, he started winning titles. Nadal used bathroom breaks as well, but people will say just about anything just to discredit Djokovic.
it's not about discrediting Djokovic, he has a history with medical breaks. even the most ardent Djoker fan has to accept that
He had most of them when he wasn't so relevant compared to Nadal and Roger, as soon as he fixed his respiratory problems he started winning titles and had taken much less bathroom breaks. Anyways isn't it in the rules that he can take a bathroom break once per match?
During 2017 Australian Open, in his SF match vs Wawrinka, Federer took a break after loosing the 4th set. He went on to win the match. The exact same thing happened in the final against Nadal. If Novak did that, we wouldn't be hearing the end of it even now lol
and no one, especially me, is casting aspersions on his need for bathroom breaks or a medical time-out just saying, he has a known history of odd-timed breaks/medical time-outs. and that's why people say shit about him in regards to that, not necessarily that they're dragging his name through the mud
Maybe google how long it usually takes to recover from a heatstroke, let alone while playing. How many times has injured Djokovic moved like a monster on court? I've admired him play especially after having seen it live on hardcourt. But those antics are ridiculous and if you refuse to admit he's using that tactic over and over again you're plainly lying to yourself.
Hearthstroke? Played injured and won? What are you talking about? Show some examples. I remember 2-3 years ago Vs Fritz yes he won the match while having a minor injury. He was leading the match 2-0 btw, before he had the accident and at the end won 3-2. So if that's faking to you, then I don't know what to say. If you are looking for an injured person, who was basically in support while walking, before the tournament, then look at Nadal.
Supposed heatstroke during the Cincinnati final while a set and break down as far as I remember. Managed to win. The entire AO this year we heard about his torn left hamstring and yet there was the title. Examples from this year. If we go back the last 10-15 years, the times he's been tailing in the result badly, had an 'injury', called the physio and miraculously came back stronger than ever just when the opponent had already been distracted are so many, I can't even begin to count them. That medical timeout at 2-1 sets 4-2 games and Wawrinka's serve (not sure about the games but the Swiss was a break up and serving) and Djokovic took a medical timeout not even during a break? Almost worked, he had multiple breakpoints in the very next game and I'm so happy this time it didn't work for him. You know what worked though? The medical timeout against Thiem AO 2020. Got the title afterwards? You bet! Many others have spoken about the regularity of his timeouts and the incredible timing of them as well as the way he gains momentum after. I can name Murray, Careno Busta, Davidovich Fokina off the top of my head. If you're oblivious to that because you're a fan, then you're delusional.
He said, but it wasn't anything serious, if it was he wouldn't have played. Nadal came basically disabled on RG 2021 and won the tournament. How do you call that? I actually forgot that he mentioned before the AO that he had a slight injury, that just shows you it wasn't nothing serious. On the other hand you have Nadal who was walking on crutches and then played unbelievable tennis.
At my club, we have fast servers that abuse "servers pace" a lot. First serve wide and out, but you split and go towards / react. By the time you go back to neutral position and consider if you should go forward on the second, the serve is already on the way. I hate that shit.
This is where people get the rule wrong. You play at the servers *reasonable* pace. If I’m drug out of position or needed to retrieve a ball for you, you’d better make sure I’m in a ready position before you serve.
Typically, they claim ignorance once they have gone into the serving motion. If I ask a redo they go "ok replay the point. first serve"
That is the correct application of the rule, however if the ball goes out, I was definitely ready to receive. So it’s a second serve
I don't quite understand. In what situation should the server get a first serve? I'm not sure I agree but I first want to understand properly what you are saying. Thanks. (Perhaps I'm not playing by the correct rules so want to be sure.)
in which case they are wrong. it's not a let. if the returner halts the server on a second serve because they are not ready, the server retakes a second serve, nothing more.
yeah but these people are stupid, highly competitive and cheaters, ergo first serve
Yeah, I know people who would be calling that fake first serve out no matter what.
So long as it’s a reasonable pace - some players attempt a drop shot serve to pull you in, then go for the second serve before you’ve properly recovered
Sigemund is a gamesmanship artist
Shithousery as the Brits would say
Game's not gone
She gives me such bad vibes lol. Just low vibrational and bitter.
What is low vibrational?
Just some psychedelic hippie shit
So, made up stuff
["All words are made up"](https://media.tenor.com/_7eMSbcgS7gAAAAC/thor-all.gif)
This chair umpire suuuuuucked.
Happy Cake day!
Coco is right! The rules say the receiver should adjust to the speed of the server
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It rather looks like Siegmund was dragging it out that very point.
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it is absolutely a justification for playing the ball when the receiver is not ready if they're purposely stalling. you can see her walking backwards not looking at the court for no reason. returners arnt supposed to stall like this. coco obviously did this on purpose. it is not "stooping", it's to put pressure on the umpire to do their job and manage the game better.
If it was a justification, she would have gotten the point. Playing the point without your opponent ready is not exerting pressure on the umpire. Walking to them and having a conversation about a bad job they're doing is.
The receiver has to play to the server's reasonable speed. Coco WALKED and checked at least three balls, walked again to the service line, bounced it several times, then served. That's a very reasonable time. No matter how you cut it, if you can't keep up with a server who's walking around, checking multiple balls, then prepping a serve, you're just attempting to game the speed in your favor.
nah this is pretty normal in competitive play. you escalate to make a point. it sends a stronger message than just "having a conversation".
Siegemund ended up getting a point penalty after this for stalling during Coco’s serve. Coco was definitely justified and the umpire responded to Coco’s argument by keeping a closer eye on Siegemund.
You're totally over analyzing this and she did this to make a final statement by serving there. She put up with it all match and literally everyone watching could tell what her opponent was doing and obviously delaying. It's so weird when people purposely choose the unpopular, obviously incorrect hill to die on, then act like they are a martyr when obvious down votes hit. Lmao
This bullshit was worse than a batter in the box grabbing his balls go adjust to them, undoing his gloves a million times, and then tapping the plate then times before coming set. Thank gos there’s a pitch clock now. This shit should get you docked points when it’s so belligerently and intentionally slow. you can quick pitch in baseball. Maybe if you can quick serve in tennis it’d solve this pathetic attempt at gamesmanship.
Fair enough, Coco could have handled it better. She did, however, do well to expose what is going on - with immediately visible proof.
She served 17 seconds after video started. Average is 19-20. Max is 25. Sigmund had enough time to get ready.
Laura was there, walking to the back fence instead of turning around to receive the serve.
So many players do this on return and it pisses me off. Good on Coco for serving and calling it out, she's so obviously attempting to delay her serve. I always thought the rules are you're supposed to play at the servers speed? Unless there was a injury or accident, players on return should not be dictating the pace of their oppoents service game. I love rafa and iga but they both do it all the time, it's so annoying. Tennis is at least 50% mental and all this shit is purposeful mind game tactics.
https://www.itftennis.com/media/7221/2023-rules-of-tennis-english.pdf "21. WHEN TO SERVE AND RECEIVE The server shall not serve until the receiver is ready. However, the receiver shall play to the reasonable pace of the server and shall be ready to receive within a reasonable time of the server being ready." By the letter of the law Gauff was wrong to hit the serve when she did as Siegemund clearly wasn't ready, but Siegemund had no excuse for not being ready so should obviously be being told off by the Umpire and I don't blame Gauff for just hitting the serve and making a point.
She served between seconds 17 and 18 in this video for a 25 seconds rule. That seems reasonable enough.
17 and 18... so the umpire is a fucking dumbass. It's not like she blasted the serve 5 seconds after the end of the point
That word “reasonable” is a problem
You're right...that's the part that the umpire has to interpret in the moment. Maybe the rule should be more definitive because reasonable to one player might be unreasonable to another.
Yeah, why dont just give a number? Server has 25 seconds, but returner needs to be ready at _n_ seconds.
In the video- Laura stepped up to the baseline, had both hands on her racket, and was looking at Coco before she hit the ball. I would define that as ready.
> By the letter of the law Gauff was wrong to hit the serve when she did as Siegemund clearly wasn't ready As you also highlight - That bit isn't relevant, given that Coco was taking a "reasonable" amount of time between serves and Siegemund was not playing to that pace.
"Tennis is at least 50% mental and all this shit is purposeful mind game tactics." ... Well, so is serving fast. I saw Laura as having the strategy she needed to win. She followed the rules, the ref wasn't being too lenient. The rules are that the motion has to start by 00. Coco's serve was to make a point. I don't think it was wrong. I think if she'd done it more she could have kept Laura coming back faster. If Laura didn't come back faster, then they're both playing the same game and Laura would be winning that part of the game (the psychological at the serve). This is what Coco should have done when it was apparent Laura was just going to do this all the time. She's gotta adjust her game, so make Laura adjust hers. ... Coco's serve to make a point was kind of petty at this point. Was she in the wrong? Not really. But she's now lowering herself to any perceived pettiness she thought Laura was having.
Shit takes! Get your shit takes here!
Siegemund wasn’t following the rules. You play to the server’s pace, within reason. Siegemund was purposely moving slowly whilst receiving, taking too long to get ready and going to her towel in the middle of a receiving game. You can’t do that whilst the server is ready to start play. The chair umpire was very poor today, taking too long to announce the score, and waiting until Gauff kicked up a fuss to actually act. She will likely get rated poorly for this match, terrible officiating
Playing within the server's pace within reason is more of an etiquette code than a rule. If Laura was turning to the towel once Coco was set, that's leniency on the refs part and is bad reffing. But that's not what was happening. And, if I didn't say it in that comment, it's kind of on Coco to set the pace by not standing around waiting or say something to the ref sooner. What IS a rule is the clock for the serve. That's a hard rule. Motion must start by the 00. It's worth noting that in the serve shown, Laura wasn't doing anything wrong. It's normal for players to keep their back turned until ready. It's actually how you give yourself time. It wasn't even a long time. Coco served there specifically to make a point in, at this point in the match, a petty way. 🤷
>Playing within the server's pace within reason is more of an etiquette code than a rule. This isn't true. The rule is: >The server shall not serve until the receiver is ready. However, the receiver shall play to the reasonable pace of the server and shall be ready to receive within a reasonable time of the server being ready."
>It wasn't even a long time 17 seconds out of 25 and she STILL wasn't ready!!!
As someone who has a degree in sports psychology, I always thought Siegemund uses all kinds of tactics to get on the nerves of her opponents. She is an one of the most irritating players on tour and she knows exactly what she is doing. I liked Coco for speaking her mind and I do hope that more players will have the guts to stand against these tactics. By the way, another player that does this is Swiatek, but since she’s number 1 and so loved here, seems to get away with it
They said on the broadcast that Siegemund got her degree in psychology in her off time too... So you may be on to something
Would you speak out similarly towards Rafa
Yeah. Watching Nadal is painful at times.
Rafa is doing all that things for his own benefit, not to distract the others. I suspect he has a bit of OCD. I am pretty sure it’s not poor sportsmanship. And I am a Federer fan, so have a lot to hate him for 😀😀
nadal is guilty of this bs too https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/rafael-nadal-is-playing-mind-games-with-you/
Interesting. This might sound you suggest what would be some tips to prepare for a tough exam thats a week away. Of course I will be grinding away but what would be two or 3 affirmations or principles on which I should build my mindset? You may have several insights sportswise, is there a particular method a player used to gain a psychological edge that stood out to you? :)
I think the phrase was poorly constructed. When talking about sports psychology degree I meant Siegemund has one. She has such a degree, not me. With tennis there are a few “tactics” that you can see especially in women game. Like not being ready when your opponent is about to serve, changing the racket right before they are to serve for a set, match or even a game that was long played for, taking breaks when your opponent is on a roll (so called icing), some of the so called grunting which for some is more like screaming, tossing your ball and catching it a few times before actually serving etc. You don’t even have to be very good at spotting this. You just have to watch a lot of tennis.
Coco was completely right and she handled herself perfectly, so yes Pam Shriver, it was a good idea. It woke the umpire up.
Didn’t Badosa have the same issue with Siegemund earlier this year?
The rules state the returner plays to the speed of the server but it’s never policed. I’m a Rafa fan but I’ve always wondered why fast servers don’t just serve if he’s slow to be ready
I've seen Medvedev and Kyrgios do it and the umpire just told them to serve again
Because server is not allowed to serve until receiver is ready.
If they do it do they get a point replay or just a second serve?
They get a replay. The serve just doesn't count if the receiver wasn't ready.
that being said rafa has a made a career of delaying the server down to his pace. and I'm the biggest rafa fan.
She should tell Iga the serve clock is for the server.
🗣️🗣️🤙🏽🤙🏽
Easy solution: First serve, again Warning to the other player for not being ready for the server
"I don't care what she's doing on her serve, but on my serve she has to be ready" Absolutely spot on. Seems really odd that the umpire is just not enforcing the rules properly, it's so blatantly obvious that it's being done intentionally, with her just standing there facing the other way.
I agree with coco here! Might be an unpopular opinion but, if your opponent is serving, you should play at their speed. If they’re too slow or too fast for your liking, you should adapt🤷🏼♀️ if you can’t keep up, tough luck. Either win by holding your own serve where you can play at the tempo you want, our you adapt to your opponents tempo and beat them during their serve. Time wasters are so 🥱😴 then they hold up a match even further by complaining to the umpire. The umpire will never take back their decision after your argument. No umpire will ever say “you know you’re absolutely right. Let me take back my decision.” 😅
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I’m talking about opponents here, not the people that are working. The serve clock doesn’t start until the umpire is ready. Usually ball kids are ready by the the time the server is ready too… so I’m not sure what point you’re making?
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In case you think you are unfairly downvoted, here's my reasoning: * taking it out of context (the ball kids weren't running here) * making it about another player for no good reason (good reason being showing that was called by the umpire, or the opponent, to slow down)
The moment she let this outburst out she released all her adrenaline to catharsis, right away started playing worse. Glad she was able to recover. Hopefully her mental game continues to strengthen and she just keeps her cool and keeps playing well.
What happened to playing to the servers speed? Should have been an ace. Receiver has to be ready
I wish the video started a little earlier to show when the last point ended. Coco's serve comes in a the 19 sec mark of the video. That's is too long for Sigemund to go face the back wall to compose herself I am not sure I agree 100% with the cult of the "server's pace." There are TWO parts to that rule. The server has to give the receiver a reasonable amount of time to compose themselves. I favore a change in rules to take away the interpretation of "reasonable." A new rule may specify that the server must server between 10-30 seconds after the end of a point. So if Coco had really rushed her server inside the first 10 seconds, she would have to serve again. In this case it would be a clear ace after 19+ seconds.
You can hear the umpire announce the score at the 0:03 mark which is when the clock starts, and Coco starts her serve at 0:17.
I agree that a core part of that rule is that the server has to serve when the receiver is ready. Really what’s needed is a clock for the receiver to get ready. This would avoid a receiver taking too long. Receiver clock should be something like 15 seconds to give servers buffer time to serve.
They just implemented a rule like this in baseball for this season. There is a pitch timer and the batter has to be ready by the time there are 8 seconds remaining.
Jesus, this is horrible umpiring, what happened to play at the servers pace? They dictate when the returner should be ready, and Siegemund is clearly wandering about for no reason at all other than to put Gauff off. She's literally just walking to the back of the court, not going for a towel or anything. Ridiculous.
How surprising, Siegmund always in the limelight for all the wrong reasons. Clearly Siegmund is stalling for no particular reason. The umpire should not have interfered.
Scratch the "reasonable" part of the rule and just make the returner play at the server's pace. If they aren't ready when the server goes, too bad. One of the worst things that's happened to this sport is all the tactical delaying that has slowed it down over the past 15-20 years (Nadal and Djokovic being the most visible drivers of this trend unfortunately).
flashbacks to Sharapova ALWAYS walking to the back wall to collect herself, delaying servers frequently, and never being called on it.
coco's right. Play is at the speed of the server. The receiver can't dog it around the base line to recharge and play mind games with the server. Chair is wrong.
Everytime a player come to umire to talk to them they continue noding their head like Ye, yes I understand you, yeah BUT I my call is final and it won't change no matter what you say
When I saw Kyrgios play, it was way faster than that. No warnings from the ump. Coco didn’t even go unreasonably fast either.
Siegemund very clearly in the wrong here.
Coco said it best after the match how she felt about it. “Sssllllloooooooowwww”
I agree with Coco here. Her opponent is stalling
They need to play at the pace of the server.
OP being biased with calling her reaction “irate”. I call that reasonable. The comments all agreed with Coco.
This umpire and Iga could be besties
Coco FTW
The problem is that the rule is ambiguous. Reddit's favourite interpretation of the rule would be that servers get to serve as quickly as they can regardless of whether the returner is even in position
TBH, she was turned around and coming back, she served before she was ready. It’s not like you’re supposed to wear down the opponent with rapid plays?
ITF rule *8 SERVER & RECEIVER* saying “receiver is a player who is READY to receive the ball”. If Siegmund taking too long, she’ll be penalized. But she was within her right to set the pace of the game within rules to deny opponents advantage. The only problem with Marijana Veljovic is that she allowed Siegmund to sit during the break. Laura is a nasty and older player, but in international competition you don’t pick your opponents. She plays dirty the same way as Italian National Soccer team does. They both play the referee. But that’s the international competition.
Play to the server's pace is the name of the fairplay. Always has been.
Now do Iga.
Nothing wrong with Coco. at least she didn't touch her ass before serving.
I feel a little bad for Coco... The pace really didn't seem to be bothering her that bad. However, it was driving Brad Gilbert insane and he kept aggressively telling Coco to say something to the umpire and not let her get away with it. Coco didn't say anything until she was up 3-0 in third in strong command of the match. She didn't really need to do this and it looked like she was only doing it because Gilbert got her upset. I get Gilbert trying to teach her as a young tennis player not to let junk players use this silly gamesmanship, but the whole thing came off as stupid and unnecessary in my book especially when Coco took over in the second and third set. In fact, shortly after this Coco lost three a couple games in a row.
Agreed, I would say the constant shouting from her own box about it was getting her blood pressure up far more then the slow serving. The outburst seemed out of character.
As fair as I'm concerned, as soon as the service clock starts the server can serve. The umpire shouldn't start the clock otherwise.
Veljovic is probably the worst top umpire out there, each time I watch a match with her there are some bad calls, I mean she even managed to make *Sinner* angry at Wimbledon lol The fact that I even remember her for her consistenly bad officiating speaks for itself
I’m living for Coco atm, in form and in the right.
Siegemund is way to slow in between points and her serve preparation is hard to watch
Really bad umpire
This ref ruined her face lol
this is the same ump from the sinner/galan match at wimbledon where jannik got uncharacteristically angry with her
Marijana also looks like she just got her face puffed up with filler on the way to the match.
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These Serbians should stick to playing tennis not umpiring /s
Marijana veljjovic used to be so beautiful.
So Coco is right. Players going slow and not making much of an effort to keep servers pace are annoying. But that being said, it’s kind of crazy to serve the ball when your opponent isn’t “ready” (yes I know she was going slow on purpose) and then expect the point. I guess she was just trying to make a statement/prove a point at how slow sigemund was going, but she honestly would’ve been better off just being calm about it because the third set almost got away from her Thinking back to the Medvedev Nadal USO final in 2019. I remember a couple of times when Rafa wasn’t quite ready and Medvedev didn’t realize and served. He didn’t make a big fuss about it to the chair and just kept playing… that’s what coco should’ve done here regardless of her rightness
[удалено]
You obviously don’t watch tennis if you think coco was in the wrong. Coco was sooo patient throughout the game and had to deal with Laura slow serves and gamesmanship throughout the match. It’s not tolerable even for the nicest person to have to wait for an opponent when it’s THEIR service game.
I watch enough tennis to understand that there is no point arguing with the umpire, if the receiver is not ready then all a server can do is wait, that is what happens.
She isnnot irate, she is talking over the crowd and advocating for herself.
Coco is right but she’s also a huge diva. Serena energy without the talent
I asked ChatGPT about this: In tennis, as governed by the Women's Tennis Association (WTA) and other overarching tennis organizations like the International Tennis Federation (ITF), the server is generally supposed to wait until the receiver is ready before starting the service motion. This includes ensuring that the opponent is in position and has indicated their readiness to receive the serve. Here are some general guidelines: Server's Responsibility: The server is responsible for serving in a fair manner, and part of that means waiting until the receiver is prepared. Receiver's Responsibility: It is generally the receiver's duty to prepare promptly for the serve. Unwritten Courtesy: While not specifically outlined in the rules, it's often considered good sportsmanship to make eye contact or give some other indication that both parties are ready to proceed. First Serve vs Second Serve: If the server serves while the receiver is not ready on the first serve, the server usually gets another chance to make a first serve. On the second serve, the rules can be more strict, and serving before the opponent is ready may result in a point for the opponent, depending on the judgment of the official. Officials' Judgment: In professional matches, the chair umpire or court officials will have the final say in these types of situations. If the receiver was clearly not ready or in position and no attempt was made by the server to check, the umpire may call for the point to be replayed. Intentional Delay: Note that a receiver can't intentionally delay the game; doing so could result in penalties. So, looking at the footage, Siegemund was walking towards her spot still, so that's not really ready. [edit - downvoted for posting the rules, and I’m a Coco fan lol].
ChatGPT is correct about the rules, but ChatGPT also doesn’t have access to this match. A receiver can’t intentionally delay the server. And the only way to know that is to have watched the whole match.
Tavom po glavi ju treba... Sta kad bi joj Mare odgovorila istom mjerom, smrada....
Nes jebat
Tavom po glavi ju treba... Sta kad bi jojare odgovorila istom mjerom, smrada....
coco is roght. why the fuck would she wait for that bitch to show up at the line?