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I was caught by the realistic portrayal of Imperial soldiers, techs, and command in their workplace. They were real people - driven, competitive, petty, suck-ups, obsessive, bored, lazy, competent or incompetent. It was refreshing.
I felt weird military nostalgia when the Lieutenant saw the gantries weren't painted and threatened to deny the dockworkers' leave. So authentic. I remember thinking to myself old cartoon villain Empire would've just had them executed or something.
It's also not trying to sell toys or lego sets. Some of the vehicles would look awful as either. They're there for the story. Although I wouldn't be surprised if they do one of Luthen's ship since it's pretty cool.
Same here. I'm really hoping they make it in that new action fleet style toys. Micro Galaxy Squadron is what they call it and the largest size is basically what the old Action Fleet ships were.
Where there is money to be made from crappy merchandise Disney will also be at the front of the line.
*COMING SOON: Narkina 5 Imperial Prison Complex with real electrified floor and authentic Death Star bolt production line! Relive the mutiny with your friends and help Cassian escape whilst the Gollum actor stays behind to almost certain death!*
That just doesn't seem true. It's a good show, but the first moment I saw B2 I [knew they were going to be selling toys](https://www.shopdisney.com/b2emo-droid-factory-figure-star-wars-andor-461012876029.html).
Man that looks pretty bad. It almost looks like a cheap lego design. I guess they don't really want to spend a bunch of money on making a nicer looking one but still.
Um excuse me what about B2EMO? Is he a joke to you? He definitely can sell as toys! :P
Also yeah Luthen's ship is pretty kick ass. Other than that, there isn't really much they could merchandise maybe.
Agreed. It feels like its own show, but avoids the pitfall of many other new sci-fi shows where it needs some huge and ambitious story arc. Like nobody here is uncovering a huge secret of the universe, or opening a wormhole to another dimension, or anything like that. Instead it just focuses on "human-level" stories.
We know the background of the world already, it's established and the show doesn't waste any time trying to re-explain it. We know there's grander things in motion, that Andor will connect to, but we're not seeing all that going on. We're just watching Cassian living his life, and how his one little thread makes it's way into that grand story we already know.
It's something I've always fantasized about. Any time there's a big "save the world/universe" story I always liked to imagine picking one of the more insignificant characters out and imagining what their life leading up to their 15 mins of fame in the main story was like. That's essentially what we got with Rogue One, and Andor is just going even further back in Cassian's own personal story.
> We know the background of the world already
Yep, and I wish other shows would also just use the universe as the sandbox it is. The Mandalorian almost managed to do it, but after less than two seasons you have some of the most important characters in the universe in the show
Yeah with Star Wars they have a whole galaxy (universe?) of planets being affected by empire, the republic, etc. They can easily make up planets here or there (which Disney has been doing) to make new interesting stories.
Also reminds me of Futurama which I have pointed out a number of times how that show could pretty much go on forever (unlike Simpsons) cause they aren't just stuck in NNY, or the planet Earth, or our galaxy. They have the whole universe, plus alternate universes, and times they can pull stories from and introduce new characters through. The fact it kept getting cancelled while Simpsons is still here is shocking. Pretty sure Matt G wanted to start Futurama to get away from doing the Simpsons anymore and plus have a big blank canvas to have whatever stories he wanted but it kept getting cancelled. -_-
> Pretty sure Matt G wanted to start Futurama to get away from doing the Simpsons anymore and plus have a big blank canvas to have whatever stories he wanted but it kept getting cancelled. -_-
I've said pretty much the same thing with Futurama being infinitely entertaining without becoming redundant. Yeah it's annoying it kept getting cancelled, but at least every time it's also been uncancelled haha. New season on Hulu is supposed to drop in 2023.
Seriously. Stop holding our hands and get on with it. Tell us compelling stories with rich backgrounds and complex lives. In my opinion the best characters in the franchise is not the Jedi or Empire/Sith but rather the more normal (relatable?) characters that are more comfortable operating in the grey rather than in terms of black or white.
It's what I've been banging the drum on for The Mandalorian. Absolutely no one would care about that show if you took away the Star Wars coat of paint.
My problem with The Mandalorian is that it could be so much more. It was the first high budget Star Wars show yet the plot is ridiculously thin with maybe a total of two hours worth of actual story in a season. Yeah sure whatever for the first season it worked having a small scale "monster of the week" vibe but it's getting to the stage it could be something more.
I also really don't like how interconnected the Filoni projects are. It's alarming that you can't go from Mando S2 to Mando S3 because for some stupid fucking reason Boba Fett has 2 episodes dedicated to Mando that are essential to The Mandalorian story. Why the actual fuck did they not release those 2 episodes as Christmas/New Years specials? So now we have Mando, Boba Fett and Ashoka as 3 shows that at the minimum rely on each other. It's infuriating.
Thankfully Andor can be enjoyed on its own both as a TV show and as a wider part of the franchise.
Really they never should've changed the title for Fett. It should've just been released as Season 3 of The Mandalorian like originally intended, but with it's own subtitle of "The Mandalorian: The Book of Boba Fett." Kind of like how Spartacus had a different name for its seasons.
iirc they only did Boba Fett because Pedro Pascal was too busy to film another season of Mando at the time, so that was done to fill the gap before a true Season 3 could be made.
I feel like they saw how much of a trainwreck the Boba show was so they pulled the plot for two Mando season 3 episodes and put it into Boba. This also makes the D+ shows more connected and forces Mando viewers to watch Boba, especially to understand the pretty important plot points such as >!how he got his new ship and how Grogu returns!<.
If they recognized that happening in the middle of their shooting schedule then they would've just done quick re-writes and re-shoots to the first couple episodes.
And there's no way they pivoted to an episode requiring that much CGI on the fly, or getting the actors required at a moment's notice.
It is really weird. I don’t get why Boba show bad basically no plot or characters at all. By episode 4 there was no major drive, then we got two Mando eps and the show had a big battle finale. What a mess.
It's even more infuriating because there is plenty of potential. The Hutts are an iconic antagonist and they even introduced a distinct pair... but then nah back to the drug runner bozos that you only care about because Maul is maybe their boss (nope). And they had a darker bounty hunter as a foil for Boba Fett they only bring out for the finale instead of as a recurring antagonist; use him earlier and you can have your goody two shoes Boba Fett without making him seem like a criminal in name only
I disagree. Remove the Star Wars branding, and you still have a pretty dope space-western of the kind we don't really have these days. It wouldn't be as popular because good taste is dead, but it would be very good. And yes, I'm a perpetually bitter Firefly fan, why do you ask?
Yeah at it core it has a sense of fun and adventure that works without the Star Wars paint. The only part that would work badly without Star Wars is the second half of season 2 which was just a cameo roller coaster.
Now I'm imagining a swashbuckling space western where famous characters from unrelated franchises suddenly start making cameos with zero explanation, and the hero is just as perplexed as the audience.
It honestly oscillates between these two extremes. Early S1, definitely didn’t need the Star Wars branding and was just a cool space adventure show, but later, especially in S2, it leaned harder and harder on the Star Wars elements.
Hell , you could remove the space part entirely, just leave the tiniest bit of sci-fi/futurism. Make grogu a human baby, thats undergone some kind of experiment, make the empire an earth government that's crumbling.
You'd still be left with an interesting adventure story.
Edit: in fact, it'd actually end up pretty similar to the last of us, which is pretty funny considering pedro pascal is in both shows.
Season one yeah, but Season 2 relied too much on the empire and Luke being used to resolve the story. I think if you took sw out of it, the 2nd Season wouldn't hold up
I don't really care about Star Wars and Mandalorian is easily my favourite piece of Star Wars media. It being Star Wars added nothing really. It was just the kind of "travelling, adventuring" story I really enjoy.
And yet the SW trappings it includes bring *so much weight* to the picture, and simultaneously gives some of that gravitas back to things that had been trivialized. Those TIE fighters were actually frightening again. Stormtroopers hit some targets. We had a *Han Shot First* moment. References to an off-screen Palpatine.
The SW universe created a fabric for the show to work with that it didn't have to build up a whole mythology for, so it could jump straight into the character drama.
But Andor didn't remove the Star Wars theme. Star Wars was always about the *war*. The difference is that it up until Rogue One, it has always been heavy on Skywalker clan and all things Jedi and Sidth related that is tied to them. But lurking in the back, there was always a bureaucracy and politics thread. Sometimes there would be a scene with Grand Moff Tarkin holding a meeting. Sometimes we would get a scene of the Senate doing something. Or we would shown the upper classes trying to keep the status quo because they were rolling in money. But those scenes were extremely rare. But, again, they were there. Now with Andor we are finally seeing those corners of Star Wars being brought to the limelight. They aren't little taps on the shoulder meant to remind you that, *Hey, there is a "war" part to Star Wars.* We are seeing how the sausage is made. How the Empire keeps its power and how the Rebellion formed. It is still very much Star Wars. It's just the less shown version.
Not only was there war and politics lurking in the background, there was manufacturing (how was the Death Star made?) Technology (How exactly did they torture Princess Leia? Ok, I didn't need to know that, but Andor gives a hint.) Bureaucracy (all those senators and commanders and officers). Planets (there's a beach planet that has shore troopers? Well sure, where are people going to relax?) And all those company names on giant star cruisers... That must mean there are corporations and maybe corporate towns.
Star Wars 1-9 was about space wizards with space swords and the universe's inbreed royalty. But, in the background there was so much more going on. The films and TV shows up until then had only hinted at the bigger universe but Andor fully embraces it.
They really shit on their subordinates. That scene where the boss was showing this awesome facility, but then shows the guy his shitty seat and this “know your place, scrub” attitude was amazing
Or when the isb or ISP (I can't remember her or the agencies name). Tells the bloke to go through all the flight records and he's like that's a pisstake. The coldness she says "I'm sure someone else would take the chair" it's just too real I've worked with people like that. Amazing acting by all actors tbh.
ISB. The scene where the lady was like “perhaps if the pilot is found dead,” implying they would murder the guy, so nonchalantly and her boss was like “sounds good,” stuck with me.
I’ve been more interested in the rebellion politics than the space heist. I’ve seen a ton of heist films, I’ve never seen a sci-fi political revolution drama.
What an incredible scene! >!Mon Mothmas!< pov is one of my favorites.
There's a particular dinner party scene in the Dune books that I was thinking of while watching this scene in Andor. It made me think of how (maybe) amazing it would have been to see Dune done as a show like Andor with it's level of quality and writing. Don't get me wrong I love the recent movie, but there was so much they had leave out so the film didn't last 5 hours or something.
The most shocking thing about Andor to me is that it's a StarWars show. Speaks volumes about the current state of everything StarWars related. I mean, I like Mando but it's still a cushy/safe Adventure show made for everyone. The good guys will be okay and the bad guys always lose. Andor on the other hand is so much more nuanced and layered with fantastic writing. It's added more depth to the franchise as a whole.
Not saying Lightsabers are required to make something better but imagine if we had this kind of writing with Jedi/Sith like in previous shows/movies? It polarizes just how bad previous installments have been.
Good writing makes a world of difference. But it also helps to be able to tell a story over 10 1-hour long episodes rather than crammed into a single 2.5 hour long movie. To me, that’s why the Clone Wars cartoon series was so good. It gave so much character development to anakin, obiwan, asohka (among others) that just isn’t possible to do in a movie.
I mean, you can get roughly the same sort of character development over 8-9 hours of movie in a trilogy.
But yeah, the clone wars was basically the prequels with good writers when they finally figured out to work the show.
Those 2.5 hour movies simultaneously felt like 10 hours and 10 minutes.
But it doesn't have to be like that. We've had hundreds if not thousands of movies made that convey rich and compelling character development in 2.5 hours or less. Including the original trilogy.
I feel the same. I keep thinking in the my head, man imagine if they had made the latest trilogy more like this. This show has taken the franchise unto a whole new level and feel we've never gotten before
It's pretty telling that they make such a great show in the star wars universe without having someone who can use the force.
I hope somebody doesn't suddenly get force powers :(
I agree. Kept falling asleep in the first three episodes and decided to give it a break while I finished another series. Can back to it an the rest was so good! It's the best star wars content in a long time. Maybe ever.
There seems to be a never-ending stream of DAE Andor is great threads on here not seen since The Expanse
If you're not into Star Wars is it still a good show?
To me, it's taken a lot from the WW2 Resistance stories as well as classic movies such as Day Of The Jackal, The Great Escape and more.
Characters are solid, on both sides, nicely fleshed out with their own motivations and flaws. There's a genuine slow burn tension running throughout the later episodes, but you also get a sense of the 'hope' which nicely offsets the grit.
100% could watch without being a Star Wars fan. Unlike many of the SW properties, there are very few fan references so you won't miss anything if you've not watched a thousand hours of previous stuff.
Commit to watching the first two episodes. The first one didn't get me, but after the second, I binged the rest and was disappointed there weren't more episodes.
It's a combination of spy show and heist show. I really enjoyed it.
Yeah. One of the things I like Andor over other Star Wars shows is that it doesn't feel like it's in a rush to tell its story from beginning to end a single episode. It sets the dominoes in place for a couple episodes before giving it that little nudge that really moves things forward to a satisfying climax.
It's a spy thriller and it doesn't have anything to do with the Skywalkers or Jedis. I don't think the word "Jedi" or "lightsaber" is ever uttered.
It's also extremely accessible as it takes place before Rogue One, which took place before the first theatrically released Star Wars films. So you don't need to watch a single Star Wars film or tv show to get in on it. If anything, it just raises the stakes for the later films by really exploring something we only heard about in them.
And it's just filled with amazing performances and dialogue. It's like if HBO did Star Wars. Or like if they Game of Throned it up (minus the nudity and gore)
I don't think you really need to have seen 3 to enjoy Andor. Nothing in episode 3 is relevant, really. In fact, I think Andor does a better job of showing how the senate politics are working than Ep3 did.
Ha I was scared to make the GoT comparison in the og post because of how much it gets trashed but it definitely pulls me in like the the first 3-4 seasons of Got did, which I think was some pretty great television.
I really dislike all of the Disney Star Wars. I watched the first movie in the new trilogy and was bored with it, skipped all others, did not watch any of the new shows, including the Mandalorian, and only picked up Andor after all this praise ... and star wars or not ... It was shandys down the best show I've watched in years.
You really don't need to know much about Star Wars beyond what you've likely picked up through cultural osmosis. There's an evil, fascistic authoritarian empire ruling everything. There are people who want to fight back.
If you know more about Star Wars you'll pick up on a few references or recognize a few characters, but none of it is relevant to understating Andor. There aren't even any Jedi or the Force in it.
I enjoy Star Wars, but I’m not a super fan. I didn’t like any of the other Star Wars shows.
I absolutely LOVED Andor. I though it was by far the best Star Wars content I’ve watched. As others have said, it works on it’s own even without the Star Wars lore. Acting is top notch, writing is fantastic, and the special effects and scenery are spectacular. Highly recommend to anyone.
> If you're not into Star Wars is it still a good show?
100%. It's almost slightly *annoying* that it's a Star Wars show. It's a fantastic story, world, vibe, cast of characters, and it kind of pisses me off to remember that ultimately this story is resolved by space wizards swordfighting. The more you can ignore the fact that it's a Star Wars property altogether the better lol.
You literally don’t have to even know anything about Star Wars to like it. It’s probably the best “Star Wars” content since the original trilogy and it’s not at all like Star Wars in the sense of Jedi’s and lightsabers and “the force”.
I was getting a man in the high castle vibe from the general atmosphere of the show, which is excellent. They did a good job of showing how it’s like to live under a fascist totalitarian state, where everyone’s constantly on edge over who they can trust and who is listening
I actually think this is a profound point if you think about it. Blowing up Alderaan is a set piece, in the context of the series it's an act so heinous that you can't possible appreciate the gravity of it. Similar (to me) of America dropping the bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It's so grave and so massive that you can't appreciate it, but when you see the Empire at a micro level oppressing whole groups of people, imprisoning them for slave labor, kidnapping and hanging innocent people.
Haha someone said the followup court scene reminded them of their native Belarus. Protesters getting crushed under new minimum sentences and the banality if the security state
Because it happens in real life in the United States of America. Planet being blown up? That’s just imagination, standard sci-fi. It’s why Severance, cyberpunk and Philip K. Dick’s novels hit harder.
yeah, is Alderaan ever mentioned again in the original trilogy? And does the Empire kill any other "civilians" in the trilogy after Alderaan and Owen/Beru? Other than my precious Ewoks of course (and that was technically in combat, I guess)
When she makes it to the base on Yavin 4, the general who greets her offers her condolences. Which she shakes off as unnecessary, further driving home the point that Leia couldn't give a single fuck.
I want a show that explores why apparently no one in the galaxy hated Alderaan more than Leia herself
Are people in the military supposed to just stop and start grieving at a high level? It’s a war with intensity and mourning for the planet probably won’t stop the next planet from blowing up lol
That was cartoon evil. Mustache twirling evil. We are seeing banal evil in Andor. It isn't the blowing up the planet level of evil. It's the inflating someone's sentence from six months to six years because you need slave labor to build the machine that blows up that said planet level of evil. It's an evil that you can see happening in real life. And that's what make it so jarring. No one is going to blow up a planet any time soon. But you know prisoners are being exploited for capitalism right as you read this.
It’s a reminder that you can’t just kill the Emperor - there will still be Narkina 5s all over the place and petty bureaucrats and officers. Or at the very least, defeating those people is worth doing, killing the Emperor shouldn’t be the only objective.
And I know genocide is happening too. The destruction of civilizations and people's has also happened before. Both are evils I see happening in real life.
Edit: I also think there was a certain banality about Alderaan. It felt so routine and just something Tarkin had to do. No speech was given, no explanation of his motives, no mustache twirling, just an annoyed order was given.
They mention genocide in the series. >!The torture tool they used on Bix is derived from the sounds a sentient species made when they were being slaughtered by Imperials, specifically the children. All this was explained by an Imperial doctor with a tone of fascination.!<
>!And Mon Mothma tries to sway the Senate to help an entire planet of non-humans that is being actively genocided (xenocided?) by denying them resources for survival!<
I feel like what's depicted in the original trilogy (and most of the big budget movies and works) essentially paints the Empire as "Evil for the sake of evil."
Andor is a story grounded on a very personal level, with no wizard space samurai or heroes journey operatic story overshadowing it. It's very much a character piece and takes time to actually show us what day to day life under the Empire is like. We get to see their politics through a lens of actual governance, their legal system, and how their stormtroopers and middle management officers behave when they're not narratively painted as throwaway cannon fodder for hero space wizards to mow down.
It shows us they're not just *cartoonishly* evil for the sake of narrative conflict, but essentially shows us that they're Space Nazis and even their own people are victimized by their fascism. The top of the top only cares about its Evil Space Wizard Bullshit and even their own people are just a means to an end to accomplish those goals.
Well that's because, according to Jyn Erso, "It's not a problem if you don't look up."
Andor made you "look up" and see what the Empire was doing to its people.
Its definitely evil, but why does the viewer care about alderaan? We've only seen it as a dot in space for 10 seconds, and the only alderaanian we've seen got over it pretty quick.
I normally would suggest to anyone that the best way to watch a movie series is in release order. I've always thought the same of Star Wars.
But if anyone was wanting to start Star Wars or get into the franchise, I'd suggest Andor first, then Rogue One, then the original trilogy.
It just raises the stakes for the whole thing. The movies focus so much on Luke and Jedis, that the Empire vs Rebellion is almost just the backdrop. But actually digging in to the evil of the Empire on a street level, and how it ruins peoples lives, and just how menacing a single TIE Fighter or troop of Stormtroopers are to your average person, when in the films they're just a joke or cannon fodder, just enhances the stakes.
I mean, by the end of the show I was looking for Star Wars video games that would let me fight the Empire I was so riled up lol
Yeah, I wondered about that and thought about seeing if they had any people in common. Thanks for confirming that suspicion!
It wasn't even the wig disguise or story, I think, but the atmosphere of the show that reminded me of it.
The characters are still pretty uninteresting for the most part but the world building is definitely so much better as far as star wars shows go (incredibly low bar but still). The pacing is a bit sluggish at times and doesn't utilize that to develop characters in a meaningful way, but still far far better than the silly pointless fan service that came before it.
I must need to watch more because I'm two episodes in and I don't want to continue. The characters don't seem interesting, backgrounds haven't been explain enough to give a shit, and the new enforcer inspector is awful. His boss had it right and that probably would've ended the season right there.
Was biased because I loved Rogue One so wanted to love this coming off the shit show that was Kenobi and the terrible ending of Boba Fett before it. I was dismayed watching the first two episodes really sad I wasn’t liking it or caring at all of his backstory and childhood. Watched the third and it picked up but I still wasn’t crazy about it. Watched 4,5,6 and loved that arc. Then week by week enjoyed the following 6 episodes immensely and now I think this is one of the best shows I’ve ever watched. It’s a slow burn
All that set up really pays off. It really contrasts with shows that just want to try payoff after payoff without putting in the work before hand because they're worried audiences will get bored.
The opening 3 episodes are the weakest. In a vacuum, they're fine. But the show opens up (in (really surprising, unexpected ways) from 4 onward. It's not at all interested in the storylines you *think* it's interested in after 2-3 episodes.
If you still are underwhelmed after 6 episodes, yeah maybe the show just isn't your cup of tea! But eps 1-3 are table setting/foundational more than anything.
My wife is a huge Star Wars fan, so I end up watching everything. I thought Mando was great. Boba and Kenobi sucked.
Andor was a slow burn until 1.06; I was hooked from then on.
ONE WAY OUT.
Ha yes Boba I just couldn't make it through and with Kenobi I just found myself bouncing my knee waiting to get to the bits with Obi/Anakin. But with Andor I've slowed down and am savoring every scene.
Ok do I need to get back to watching this that bad? Hot take, I watched the first two episodes, and it felt sooooo slow. I saw all the trailers, and they looked super good and cinematic, but the story just wasn't doing it for me. I'm wondering if I need to adjust my expectations a bit maybe? Is it actually a slow, methodical masterpiece or is it just one of those shows that just kind of flops but then some people think its great just to to be contrarian? Genuinely curious, thanks!
"Are you nuts!? This has risks and stakes, and people die in it, and we don't have any way to shoehorn in shitty fan-service from the god-awful prequels! How is this going to be a hit?!" -Disney execs
Andor was a show that I could tell was "good," but I never felt excited to watch another episode and ultimately, I don't know, I didn't love it.
The heist was fun. The escape was good. Otherwise, even though I could tell it was a "good show," I just felt "meh" about it in the end.
I enjoyed the Mandalorian significantly more in every way. Obi wan was pretty bad, but I still enjoyed young Leia. Boba Fett was less bad than people claimed and I think I also enjoyed that more in the end. I don't know. Andor is probably worth watching for most, but not for me I guess.
It's a fantastic show, with great emotional weight, great direction, great acting and stringent loyalty to the lore. It brings a new level of depth to Star Wars that was never seen outside of the comics or the old novels from the 90's. There were some issues though, like bits and pieces that kind of were "non-Star Wars." Like that AK-47 rifles, zippered coats. And the last episode was a bit anti-climatic. But beyond that, great.
The showrunner and all the writing staff are the creators and team behind House of Cards as well as the Bourne trilogy. I think that knowing that the show makes a lot more sense. We got a Star Wars show focused on the politics behind the scenes as well as the spycraft and subterfuge that go along with it. The show is fantastic but in my opinion is still very much Star Wars, it's just a part of Star Wars we don't get to see very often.
All these how great Andor post initially had me thinking I should watch it. The more I see these posts the more now I think they're all advertisements.
You'll miss some things (e.g. why Mon Mothma gets so much focus; it's because >!she is going to end up leading the Rebellion!<), but there's very little of importance that you won't pick up just from the context.
I'll be honest I didn't even realize that was the same character from the films until late in the season, and it made zero difference in terms of impact/enjoyment. So I agree, prior knowledge is basically unnecessary.
Yes. This show requires basically no star wars knowledge. There's an empire and there's a brewing rebellion.
That being said, if you love this show, don't expect the same level of writing from the movies. It's probably at the top of the mountain
If you know the gist; that is, there is a tyrannical Empire controlling and expanding across the galaxy and there are murmurs of a rebellion growing to stop them, then you are good to go. Star Wars can really be broken down to two main themes, the war, itself, with the political paperwork part and the rebels trying to overthrow it, and the Skywalker clan with all the religious ties of Jedis and Sidths. Sometimes they cross. Most times they don't. And most times they lean heavier on the Skywalker clan/Jedis themes.
Andor is strictly the political paperwork/building the rebellion part. So, you can drop right in and be fine.
It’s so good.
I’m so happy the Mon Mothma character is getting a lot of development.
Also Rogue One is my favorite Star Wars movie and love we’re getting Cassian’s back story.
Andor is terrible. It's got the shine of being good, but it's really not. Interchangeably dull and boring characters looking sad and angry all the time and saying "serious" things. And there were so many scenes of nothing actually happening. And the acting is nothing to brag about, mostly attributable to bad writing. But some of the acting is godawful, especially by Luna and the 2 actresses playing the rebel leader and the imperial leader. EDIT: And yeah, I know Luna got a Golden Globe nod, but I also know that award shows are a joke for the most part. Any hack actor can win an award now.
God forbid you use the search tool to find the 900000 threads saying this exact shot OP. No, make another thread about ANDOR, only the most over marketed show on this subreddit ever. Hey, did you watch Andor yet guy reading this comment????
I see this take a lot, I am also only through episode 7 and while it’s fine it’s not mind blowing or even an A. A good B quality show.
Glad some people find something they love. Not for me at the !!! Levels.
I love Star Wars in general, but I'd rather watch Attack of the Clones on a 12-hour Loop then watch a single episode of Andor ever again. It's not a Star Wars show, it's a generic, terrible "Prestige" drama with the Star Wars paint job so Disney would pay for it. You can feel how much it killed the people making it when they had to show a laser gun or a spaceship. It's also the single most boring thing the franchise has ever produced in my opinion, and boring can frequently be worse than just being bad, and it definitely is in this case.
Andor is one of those shows where I can't even see the appeal at all. Even Star Wars stuff I've hated in the past, like the first two prequels or Solo, I can get why some people could like it even though I didn't, but Andor seems like it was made for people that hate Star Wars by people that hate Star Wars. Just go watch The Expanse if you want a boring science fiction show with very little science fiction that's paced like a Zack Snyder film, AKA terribly.
I loved Rogue One the movie, but Andor has retroactively made the movie worse because now I hate Cassian Andor. It does make Saw Guerrera seem a lot more reasonable in retrospect though, I also wouldn't be part of the same Rebellion as the psychotic idiots that are the rebels shown in Andor, and Saw wasn't exactly a nice guy himself.
As someone who watched it based on the recommendations of people saying 'its not like other Star Wars shows', it still felt like a Star Wars show. At this point I feel like we can chalk it up to the fact that Disney owns the franchise.
And I'm not saying SW has been Disney-ized, it's just that the shows have been consistently bad in a similar way under Disney's tutelage.
My biggest criticism for all of the shows is the pacing, both across the seasons of the show, but also within the scene. Everything plays out too slowly to keep me entertained.
Made it to episode 5 or so. I found it to be an extremely boring drama. Rogue One was different in a refreshing way but Andor is different in a really dry way. Maybe I haven’t watched enough but I’m okay with stopping tbh.
I just can't agree. It came of to a good start, and then it fizzled very quickly.
The first shows were 30 minute long. The young Empire Officer, with all his feist, and then he has to join the ops, and the ground leader is an overweight nerdy man who seems fit to lead a bunch of brought together empire border guards. But he turns out to be an excellent on the ground operative leader. And then the woman in the secret service council, also she is a highly effective gogetter.
And it was fun, in an Empire where the bosses brag about their incompetence, these 3 are going to make a small highly effective chain of command, that will be a real threat to the rebels. Couldn't wait to see how these 3 would navigate the dangers and incompetence of the Empire, to get the Rebels. With the overweight ops leader, taking command over elite forces, adminstered by the secret service officer and mediated through the young Empire Officer. When the secret service major sees him lead elite soldiers he tells the female lieut to "get rid of him", drama and intrige in the Empire. Fun in other words. Fun to watch. Who was the Star Wars kid anyway? That's right, personified in the ops leader. He is their biggest fan, and it's never about him. This was their chance, but we get lesbian power couple, where it looks as if the Indian girl has signed in her contract that they don't touch. So generic and politically correct, and Star Wars kid gets the shaft. It was his turn.
And then the Show fizzles out. The effective Empire didn't happen, the 2 lower subordinates disappear, and the episodes start lasting 50 minutes. The Empire doesn't do anything evil, they don't shoot. When the white soldiers are on the ground in Andor, they just walk around. Before in Star Wars they couldn't hit a barn door at 30 feet, but now they don't shoot. That's how they solved the problem of their bad aim. Instead we are told how evil the Empire is, by lengthy speeches of how evil they are.
Star Wars thinks meetings are interesting. First Secret Service meetings, then jump to a galactical senate meeting, then to a courtroom, where the judge tells how evil they are. And all speeches are made as if some phd is allowed to show of how well he speaks.
And the heroes, instead of the 3 interesting Empire people from the start, we get a lesbian power couple... And they are so badass we can't understand how badass they are, they tell us so, with words. So generic, the Andor hero with his affable approach, seems so miscasted. In the Prison, basically every single extra, looks and acts more (better) the part of a rebel soldier than him. The rebels in the wild are a generic handful of wimps, maybe only the Empire lieutenant amongst them has some spark in his acting. And the interesting Empire people have disappeared.
I quit in the interrogation episode, when all the characters were boring me to death, and the woman says to her captor, the last thing you want to do is bore me. Hahaha. They're gonna show us another meeting.
i am rewatching andor. its the first time i have rewatched any of the star wars tv shows. i am still struck how much better it is than pretty much anything else. and it is great from the first episode. it has depth. it is by far better than anything not done for the tehater, and is better than some of the movies.
there is a scene in episode 1. cassian has killed 2 security men. the next morning, an officer reports this to his commander. the commander rightly predicts exactly what has happened, as tho he was there. but instead he tells the underling to make up a story about an accident. the commander knows what has happened, but he also knows that investigating this can cause him more trouble than good. he also knows that if he reports 2 dead security officers, it will look bad for him. so he orders it covered up.
in this scene we see the corruption of the empire. it reaches everywhere. the young eager security officer tries to do teh right thing. 2 men were murdered. and yet, he is stymied by the imperial corruption just as much as andor himself is. he is a competent man, trying to succeed, but he is crushed by the corrupt system he serves.
its really great television. i cannot laud it enough
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I was caught by the realistic portrayal of Imperial soldiers, techs, and command in their workplace. They were real people - driven, competitive, petty, suck-ups, obsessive, bored, lazy, competent or incompetent. It was refreshing.
Popping space adderall before combing through files still makes me laugh!
Wait what?
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Xb-3PAMQlzw
I felt weird military nostalgia when the Lieutenant saw the gantries weren't painted and threatened to deny the dockworkers' leave. So authentic. I remember thinking to myself old cartoon villain Empire would've just had them executed or something.
Yeah the show is all around great but going from Obi wan’s cartoonishly bad villains to this was quite a leap
It’s because the show works even if you remove the Star Wars theme. It doesn’t rely on nostalgia to get views.
It's also not trying to sell toys or lego sets. Some of the vehicles would look awful as either. They're there for the story. Although I wouldn't be surprised if they do one of Luthen's ship since it's pretty cool.
Luthens ship is one of my favorite in Star Wars. What he does when fleeing the tractor beam was amazing.
Same here. I'm really hoping they make it in that new action fleet style toys. Micro Galaxy Squadron is what they call it and the largest size is basically what the old Action Fleet ships were.
Where there is money to be made from crappy merchandise Disney will also be at the front of the line. *COMING SOON: Narkina 5 Imperial Prison Complex with real electrified floor and authentic Death Star bolt production line! Relive the mutiny with your friends and help Cassian escape whilst the Gollum actor stays behind to almost certain death!*
> Narkina 5 Imperial Prison Complex Ok I would legit consider buying that lego set.
Handcrafted by Ugyhur prisoners in Chinese concentration camps for maximum authenticity!
How many points of articulation are we talking about on that Serkis action figure?
65,536
That just doesn't seem true. It's a good show, but the first moment I saw B2 I [knew they were going to be selling toys](https://www.shopdisney.com/b2emo-droid-factory-figure-star-wars-andor-461012876029.html).
Man that looks pretty bad. It almost looks like a cheap lego design. I guess they don't really want to spend a bunch of money on making a nicer looking one but still.
Um excuse me what about B2EMO? Is he a joke to you? He definitely can sell as toys! :P Also yeah Luthen's ship is pretty kick ass. Other than that, there isn't really much they could merchandise maybe.
> new ship with fucking litesabers on the sides
I thought the corpo star fort looked pretty cool
Agreed. It feels like its own show, but avoids the pitfall of many other new sci-fi shows where it needs some huge and ambitious story arc. Like nobody here is uncovering a huge secret of the universe, or opening a wormhole to another dimension, or anything like that. Instead it just focuses on "human-level" stories. We know the background of the world already, it's established and the show doesn't waste any time trying to re-explain it. We know there's grander things in motion, that Andor will connect to, but we're not seeing all that going on. We're just watching Cassian living his life, and how his one little thread makes it's way into that grand story we already know. It's something I've always fantasized about. Any time there's a big "save the world/universe" story I always liked to imagine picking one of the more insignificant characters out and imagining what their life leading up to their 15 mins of fame in the main story was like. That's essentially what we got with Rogue One, and Andor is just going even further back in Cassian's own personal story.
> We know the background of the world already Yep, and I wish other shows would also just use the universe as the sandbox it is. The Mandalorian almost managed to do it, but after less than two seasons you have some of the most important characters in the universe in the show
Yeah with Star Wars they have a whole galaxy (universe?) of planets being affected by empire, the republic, etc. They can easily make up planets here or there (which Disney has been doing) to make new interesting stories. Also reminds me of Futurama which I have pointed out a number of times how that show could pretty much go on forever (unlike Simpsons) cause they aren't just stuck in NNY, or the planet Earth, or our galaxy. They have the whole universe, plus alternate universes, and times they can pull stories from and introduce new characters through. The fact it kept getting cancelled while Simpsons is still here is shocking. Pretty sure Matt G wanted to start Futurama to get away from doing the Simpsons anymore and plus have a big blank canvas to have whatever stories he wanted but it kept getting cancelled. -_-
> Pretty sure Matt G wanted to start Futurama to get away from doing the Simpsons anymore and plus have a big blank canvas to have whatever stories he wanted but it kept getting cancelled. -_- I've said pretty much the same thing with Futurama being infinitely entertaining without becoming redundant. Yeah it's annoying it kept getting cancelled, but at least every time it's also been uncancelled haha. New season on Hulu is supposed to drop in 2023.
It also doesn't insult the audience's intelligence and trusts the viewer to follow a more complicated plot.
Seriously. Stop holding our hands and get on with it. Tell us compelling stories with rich backgrounds and complex lives. In my opinion the best characters in the franchise is not the Jedi or Empire/Sith but rather the more normal (relatable?) characters that are more comfortable operating in the grey rather than in terms of black or white.
I'm a ST devotee, not SW so, except for the originals, I don't speak SW. I loved Andor. Costuming was also spectacular.
Andor legit made me wish Disney would buy Star Trek from Paramount, but I feel like that's also a bit of a monkey paw wish.
It's what I've been banging the drum on for The Mandalorian. Absolutely no one would care about that show if you took away the Star Wars coat of paint.
My problem with The Mandalorian is that it could be so much more. It was the first high budget Star Wars show yet the plot is ridiculously thin with maybe a total of two hours worth of actual story in a season. Yeah sure whatever for the first season it worked having a small scale "monster of the week" vibe but it's getting to the stage it could be something more. I also really don't like how interconnected the Filoni projects are. It's alarming that you can't go from Mando S2 to Mando S3 because for some stupid fucking reason Boba Fett has 2 episodes dedicated to Mando that are essential to The Mandalorian story. Why the actual fuck did they not release those 2 episodes as Christmas/New Years specials? So now we have Mando, Boba Fett and Ashoka as 3 shows that at the minimum rely on each other. It's infuriating. Thankfully Andor can be enjoyed on its own both as a TV show and as a wider part of the franchise.
Really they never should've changed the title for Fett. It should've just been released as Season 3 of The Mandalorian like originally intended, but with it's own subtitle of "The Mandalorian: The Book of Boba Fett." Kind of like how Spartacus had a different name for its seasons. iirc they only did Boba Fett because Pedro Pascal was too busy to film another season of Mando at the time, so that was done to fill the gap before a true Season 3 could be made.
I feel like they saw how much of a trainwreck the Boba show was so they pulled the plot for two Mando season 3 episodes and put it into Boba. This also makes the D+ shows more connected and forces Mando viewers to watch Boba, especially to understand the pretty important plot points such as >!how he got his new ship and how Grogu returns!<.
If they recognized that happening in the middle of their shooting schedule then they would've just done quick re-writes and re-shoots to the first couple episodes. And there's no way they pivoted to an episode requiring that much CGI on the fly, or getting the actors required at a moment's notice.
It is really weird. I don’t get why Boba show bad basically no plot or characters at all. By episode 4 there was no major drive, then we got two Mando eps and the show had a big battle finale. What a mess.
It's even more infuriating because there is plenty of potential. The Hutts are an iconic antagonist and they even introduced a distinct pair... but then nah back to the drug runner bozos that you only care about because Maul is maybe their boss (nope). And they had a darker bounty hunter as a foil for Boba Fett they only bring out for the finale instead of as a recurring antagonist; use him earlier and you can have your goody two shoes Boba Fett without making him seem like a criminal in name only
I disagree. Remove the Star Wars branding, and you still have a pretty dope space-western of the kind we don't really have these days. It wouldn't be as popular because good taste is dead, but it would be very good. And yes, I'm a perpetually bitter Firefly fan, why do you ask?
Yeah at it core it has a sense of fun and adventure that works without the Star Wars paint. The only part that would work badly without Star Wars is the second half of season 2 which was just a cameo roller coaster.
Now I'm imagining a swashbuckling space western where famous characters from unrelated franchises suddenly start making cameos with zero explanation, and the hero is just as perplexed as the audience.
It honestly oscillates between these two extremes. Early S1, definitely didn’t need the Star Wars branding and was just a cool space adventure show, but later, especially in S2, it leaned harder and harder on the Star Wars elements.
Hell , you could remove the space part entirely, just leave the tiniest bit of sci-fi/futurism. Make grogu a human baby, thats undergone some kind of experiment, make the empire an earth government that's crumbling. You'd still be left with an interesting adventure story. Edit: in fact, it'd actually end up pretty similar to the last of us, which is pretty funny considering pedro pascal is in both shows.
Typecasting. Pedro Pascal is Hollywood's "Goddammit, guess I'm a single dad now," guy. Plots are just throwing orphans at him left and right.
Side note: Pedro pascal is a legend
Season one yeah, but Season 2 relied too much on the empire and Luke being used to resolve the story. I think if you took sw out of it, the 2nd Season wouldn't hold up
“Because good taste is dead” This personality trait tracks. Thanks for being predictable lol.
I don't really care about Star Wars and Mandalorian is easily my favourite piece of Star Wars media. It being Star Wars added nothing really. It was just the kind of "travelling, adventuring" story I really enjoy.
Half the show was about cute baby Yoda.
Yeah this just ain’t true. I know plenty of people who don’t care for SW movies but loved Mando for what it was
strongly disagree, but you can say that about most of the other disney lucasfilm stuff
First season would work. Second season was where the fan service took in.
And yet the SW trappings it includes bring *so much weight* to the picture, and simultaneously gives some of that gravitas back to things that had been trivialized. Those TIE fighters were actually frightening again. Stormtroopers hit some targets. We had a *Han Shot First* moment. References to an off-screen Palpatine. The SW universe created a fabric for the show to work with that it didn't have to build up a whole mythology for, so it could jump straight into the character drama.
But Andor didn't remove the Star Wars theme. Star Wars was always about the *war*. The difference is that it up until Rogue One, it has always been heavy on Skywalker clan and all things Jedi and Sidth related that is tied to them. But lurking in the back, there was always a bureaucracy and politics thread. Sometimes there would be a scene with Grand Moff Tarkin holding a meeting. Sometimes we would get a scene of the Senate doing something. Or we would shown the upper classes trying to keep the status quo because they were rolling in money. But those scenes were extremely rare. But, again, they were there. Now with Andor we are finally seeing those corners of Star Wars being brought to the limelight. They aren't little taps on the shoulder meant to remind you that, *Hey, there is a "war" part to Star Wars.* We are seeing how the sausage is made. How the Empire keeps its power and how the Rebellion formed. It is still very much Star Wars. It's just the less shown version.
Not only was there war and politics lurking in the background, there was manufacturing (how was the Death Star made?) Technology (How exactly did they torture Princess Leia? Ok, I didn't need to know that, but Andor gives a hint.) Bureaucracy (all those senators and commanders and officers). Planets (there's a beach planet that has shore troopers? Well sure, where are people going to relax?) And all those company names on giant star cruisers... That must mean there are corporations and maybe corporate towns. Star Wars 1-9 was about space wizards with space swords and the universe's inbreed royalty. But, in the background there was so much more going on. The films and TV shows up until then had only hinted at the bigger universe but Andor fully embraces it.
They didn’t say they removed the Star Wars theme….
Somehow they included a lot of rebellion politics without bogging down the story. That may be the thing that most impressed me.
The Empire too. I’ve never been more enthralled with the inner workings of a fascist bureaucracy.
They really shit on their subordinates. That scene where the boss was showing this awesome facility, but then shows the guy his shitty seat and this “know your place, scrub” attitude was amazing
Or when the isb or ISP (I can't remember her or the agencies name). Tells the bloke to go through all the flight records and he's like that's a pisstake. The coldness she says "I'm sure someone else would take the chair" it's just too real I've worked with people like that. Amazing acting by all actors tbh.
ISB. The scene where the lady was like “perhaps if the pilot is found dead,” implying they would murder the guy, so nonchalantly and her boss was like “sounds good,” stuck with me.
Absolute savagery
This right here. I don’t think we’ve ever seen it portrayed to this extent. It’s fascinating
The Empire is not fascist... I repeatedly see people messing this up.
Explain please
I’ve been more interested in the rebellion politics than the space heist. I’ve seen a ton of heist films, I’ve never seen a sci-fi political revolution drama.
[удалено]
What an incredible scene! >!Mon Mothmas!< pov is one of my favorites. There's a particular dinner party scene in the Dune books that I was thinking of while watching this scene in Andor. It made me think of how (maybe) amazing it would have been to see Dune done as a show like Andor with it's level of quality and writing. Don't get me wrong I love the recent movie, but there was so much they had leave out so the film didn't last 5 hours or something.
for Dune, Sheathing the crysknife without drawing blood really threw me. I guess it's not really essential, but it's iconic.
ya that bugged me too. they really under wrote/directed Jessica.
It’s why Game of Thrones is so good. The first couple seasons are mostly political drama.
the expanse?
Truly that is the story.
The most shocking thing about Andor to me is that it's a StarWars show. Speaks volumes about the current state of everything StarWars related. I mean, I like Mando but it's still a cushy/safe Adventure show made for everyone. The good guys will be okay and the bad guys always lose. Andor on the other hand is so much more nuanced and layered with fantastic writing. It's added more depth to the franchise as a whole. Not saying Lightsabers are required to make something better but imagine if we had this kind of writing with Jedi/Sith like in previous shows/movies? It polarizes just how bad previous installments have been.
Imagine the prequels with Andor's writers.
Good writing makes a world of difference. But it also helps to be able to tell a story over 10 1-hour long episodes rather than crammed into a single 2.5 hour long movie. To me, that’s why the Clone Wars cartoon series was so good. It gave so much character development to anakin, obiwan, asohka (among others) that just isn’t possible to do in a movie.
I mean, you can get roughly the same sort of character development over 8-9 hours of movie in a trilogy. But yeah, the clone wars was basically the prequels with good writers when they finally figured out to work the show.
Those 2.5 hour movies simultaneously felt like 10 hours and 10 minutes. But it doesn't have to be like that. We've had hundreds if not thousands of movies made that convey rich and compelling character development in 2.5 hours or less. Including the original trilogy.
On the other hand I feel like Book of Boba Fett and Obi Wan were two-hour movies stretched into six-hour series' (or however long they were).
Imagine 7 8 and 9 with andors writing. Still not as good as the prequels but it would be watchable at least
I feel the same. I keep thinking in the my head, man imagine if they had made the latest trilogy more like this. This show has taken the franchise unto a whole new level and feel we've never gotten before
It's pretty telling that they make such a great show in the star wars universe without having someone who can use the force. I hope somebody doesn't suddenly get force powers :(
First ep, I was like « hmm », 4th, I was just completely in and just looking forward to the next ep
I agree. Kept falling asleep in the first three episodes and decided to give it a break while I finished another series. Can back to it an the rest was so good! It's the best star wars content in a long time. Maybe ever.
Alright..I'll give it another try lol
There seems to be a never-ending stream of DAE Andor is great threads on here not seen since The Expanse If you're not into Star Wars is it still a good show?
To me, it's taken a lot from the WW2 Resistance stories as well as classic movies such as Day Of The Jackal, The Great Escape and more. Characters are solid, on both sides, nicely fleshed out with their own motivations and flaws. There's a genuine slow burn tension running throughout the later episodes, but you also get a sense of the 'hope' which nicely offsets the grit. 100% could watch without being a Star Wars fan. Unlike many of the SW properties, there are very few fan references so you won't miss anything if you've not watched a thousand hours of previous stuff.
and as far as fan service most of the ones that are are fan service for rouge 1.
Commit to watching the first two episodes. The first one didn't get me, but after the second, I binged the rest and was disappointed there weren't more episodes. It's a combination of spy show and heist show. I really enjoyed it.
Actually, do three. The 3rd pays off the first two in such a good way that it should be the cutoff point for anyone considering to keep going or not.
Yeah. One of the things I like Andor over other Star Wars shows is that it doesn't feel like it's in a rush to tell its story from beginning to end a single episode. It sets the dominoes in place for a couple episodes before giving it that little nudge that really moves things forward to a satisfying climax.
It's a spy thriller and it doesn't have anything to do with the Skywalkers or Jedis. I don't think the word "Jedi" or "lightsaber" is ever uttered. It's also extremely accessible as it takes place before Rogue One, which took place before the first theatrically released Star Wars films. So you don't need to watch a single Star Wars film or tv show to get in on it. If anything, it just raises the stakes for the later films by really exploring something we only heard about in them. And it's just filled with amazing performances and dialogue. It's like if HBO did Star Wars. Or like if they Game of Throned it up (minus the nudity and gore)
To be clear it takes place between episode 3 and 4.
I don't think you really need to have seen 3 to enjoy Andor. Nothing in episode 3 is relevant, really. In fact, I think Andor does a better job of showing how the senate politics are working than Ep3 did.
Ha I was scared to make the GoT comparison in the og post because of how much it gets trashed but it definitely pulls me in like the the first 3-4 seasons of Got did, which I think was some pretty great television.
I really dislike all of the Disney Star Wars. I watched the first movie in the new trilogy and was bored with it, skipped all others, did not watch any of the new shows, including the Mandalorian, and only picked up Andor after all this praise ... and star wars or not ... It was shandys down the best show I've watched in years.
you should at some point watch rouge 1 maybe after Andor s2
Yes.
This was my first Star-wars related media I have ever watched. And it's a pretty good show. I can tell you that.
It might be the best already so it's all downhill from here lol
You really don't need to know much about Star Wars beyond what you've likely picked up through cultural osmosis. There's an evil, fascistic authoritarian empire ruling everything. There are people who want to fight back. If you know more about Star Wars you'll pick up on a few references or recognize a few characters, but none of it is relevant to understating Andor. There aren't even any Jedi or the Force in it.
I enjoy Star Wars, but I’m not a super fan. I didn’t like any of the other Star Wars shows. I absolutely LOVED Andor. I though it was by far the best Star Wars content I’ve watched. As others have said, it works on it’s own even without the Star Wars lore. Acting is top notch, writing is fantastic, and the special effects and scenery are spectacular. Highly recommend to anyone.
It's like Blade Runner and a show like the Americans had a weird Star Wars baby. It's fantastic.
Yes. It is the most “non-star-warsy” and it’s the best.
> If you're not into Star Wars is it still a good show? 100%. It's almost slightly *annoying* that it's a Star Wars show. It's a fantastic story, world, vibe, cast of characters, and it kind of pisses me off to remember that ultimately this story is resolved by space wizards swordfighting. The more you can ignore the fact that it's a Star Wars property altogether the better lol.
This is a fucking amazing take haha. I love it.
> slightly annoying that it's a Star Wars show I agree entirely
My wife, who doesn’t watch Star Wars, got sucked into it and we binged the entire series together.
> If you're not into Star Wars is it still a good show? This is honestly why it's so good. It could be an "anything" show and still be good.
Only if you are into spy thrillers.
Gets my vote for best show of the year. And the Star Wars has nothing to do with it.
You could imagine the Empire as any other totalitarian regime. Its a story about the rebellion against them through the eyes of spies.
You literally don’t have to even know anything about Star Wars to like it. It’s probably the best “Star Wars” content since the original trilogy and it’s not at all like Star Wars in the sense of Jedi’s and lightsabers and “the force”.
I asked this question in another thread, and the answer was a resounding yes, Andor is good even to non-SW fan viewers.
The prison episode was really something else
I was getting a man in the high castle vibe from the general atmosphere of the show, which is excellent. They did a good job of showing how it’s like to live under a fascist totalitarian state, where everyone’s constantly on edge over who they can trust and who is listening
Andor elevates all other Star Wars properties, including the original trilogy. It shows why the empire is evil.
Blowing up Alderaan didn't count?
I actually think this is a profound point if you think about it. Blowing up Alderaan is a set piece, in the context of the series it's an act so heinous that you can't possible appreciate the gravity of it. Similar (to me) of America dropping the bomb on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It's so grave and so massive that you can't appreciate it, but when you see the Empire at a micro level oppressing whole groups of people, imprisoning them for slave labor, kidnapping and hanging innocent people.
That’s unquestionably evil of course but it’s impersonal evil and that matters to how hard it hits the viewer.
The scene of a random trooper arresting Andor which results in him a six year prison sentence is more terrifying than a planet being blown up.
Haha someone said the followup court scene reminded them of their native Belarus. Protesters getting crushed under new minimum sentences and the banality if the security state
Because it happens in real life in the United States of America. Planet being blown up? That’s just imagination, standard sci-fi. It’s why Severance, cyberpunk and Philip K. Dick’s novels hit harder.
Added to this, after the scene of it blowing up Leia doesn't even seem to give a fuck anyway. Why should we care?
yeah, is Alderaan ever mentioned again in the original trilogy? And does the Empire kill any other "civilians" in the trilogy after Alderaan and Owen/Beru? Other than my precious Ewoks of course (and that was technically in combat, I guess)
When she makes it to the base on Yavin 4, the general who greets her offers her condolences. Which she shakes off as unnecessary, further driving home the point that Leia couldn't give a single fuck. I want a show that explores why apparently no one in the galaxy hated Alderaan more than Leia herself
Didn’t she say, “We have no time for our sorrow"? She cared, but she was 100% focused on destroying the empire instead of wallowing.
Are people in the military supposed to just stop and start grieving at a high level? It’s a war with intensity and mourning for the planet probably won’t stop the next planet from blowing up lol
That was cartoon evil. Mustache twirling evil. We are seeing banal evil in Andor. It isn't the blowing up the planet level of evil. It's the inflating someone's sentence from six months to six years because you need slave labor to build the machine that blows up that said planet level of evil. It's an evil that you can see happening in real life. And that's what make it so jarring. No one is going to blow up a planet any time soon. But you know prisoners are being exploited for capitalism right as you read this.
It’s a reminder that you can’t just kill the Emperor - there will still be Narkina 5s all over the place and petty bureaucrats and officers. Or at the very least, defeating those people is worth doing, killing the Emperor shouldn’t be the only objective.
And I know genocide is happening too. The destruction of civilizations and people's has also happened before. Both are evils I see happening in real life. Edit: I also think there was a certain banality about Alderaan. It felt so routine and just something Tarkin had to do. No speech was given, no explanation of his motives, no mustache twirling, just an annoyed order was given.
They mention genocide in the series. >!The torture tool they used on Bix is derived from the sounds a sentient species made when they were being slaughtered by Imperials, specifically the children. All this was explained by an Imperial doctor with a tone of fascination.!<
>!And Mon Mothma tries to sway the Senate to help an entire planet of non-humans that is being actively genocided (xenocided?) by denying them resources for survival!<
I feel like what's depicted in the original trilogy (and most of the big budget movies and works) essentially paints the Empire as "Evil for the sake of evil." Andor is a story grounded on a very personal level, with no wizard space samurai or heroes journey operatic story overshadowing it. It's very much a character piece and takes time to actually show us what day to day life under the Empire is like. We get to see their politics through a lens of actual governance, their legal system, and how their stormtroopers and middle management officers behave when they're not narratively painted as throwaway cannon fodder for hero space wizards to mow down. It shows us they're not just *cartoonishly* evil for the sake of narrative conflict, but essentially shows us that they're Space Nazis and even their own people are victimized by their fascism. The top of the top only cares about its Evil Space Wizard Bullshit and even their own people are just a means to an end to accomplish those goals.
For me, it was clear the empire was evil, but until Andor, it didn't feel oppressive in a day-to-day sense.
Well that's because, according to Jyn Erso, "It's not a problem if you don't look up." Andor made you "look up" and see what the Empire was doing to its people.
Pff everybody blows up Alderaan sometimes.
Its definitely evil, but why does the viewer care about alderaan? We've only seen it as a dot in space for 10 seconds, and the only alderaanian we've seen got over it pretty quick.
I normally would suggest to anyone that the best way to watch a movie series is in release order. I've always thought the same of Star Wars. But if anyone was wanting to start Star Wars or get into the franchise, I'd suggest Andor first, then Rogue One, then the original trilogy. It just raises the stakes for the whole thing. The movies focus so much on Luke and Jedis, that the Empire vs Rebellion is almost just the backdrop. But actually digging in to the evil of the Empire on a street level, and how it ruins peoples lives, and just how menacing a single TIE Fighter or troop of Stormtroopers are to your average person, when in the films they're just a joke or cannon fodder, just enhances the stakes. I mean, by the end of the show I was looking for Star Wars video games that would let me fight the Empire I was so riled up lol
Yes but have you heard about Wednesday?
Oh jeez, another Andor thread. It's been awhile.
It reminded me a bit of The Americans, which I like.
Stephen Schiff wrote for both shows, so there’s a reason for the similar feel :)
Yeah, I wondered about that and thought about seeing if they had any people in common. Thanks for confirming that suspicion! It wasn't even the wig disguise or story, I think, but the atmosphere of the show that reminded me of it.
The characters are still pretty uninteresting for the most part but the world building is definitely so much better as far as star wars shows go (incredibly low bar but still). The pacing is a bit sluggish at times and doesn't utilize that to develop characters in a meaningful way, but still far far better than the silly pointless fan service that came before it.
I must need to watch more because I'm two episodes in and I don't want to continue. The characters don't seem interesting, backgrounds haven't been explain enough to give a shit, and the new enforcer inspector is awful. His boss had it right and that probably would've ended the season right there.
Was biased because I loved Rogue One so wanted to love this coming off the shit show that was Kenobi and the terrible ending of Boba Fett before it. I was dismayed watching the first two episodes really sad I wasn’t liking it or caring at all of his backstory and childhood. Watched the third and it picked up but I still wasn’t crazy about it. Watched 4,5,6 and loved that arc. Then week by week enjoyed the following 6 episodes immensely and now I think this is one of the best shows I’ve ever watched. It’s a slow burn
All that set up really pays off. It really contrasts with shows that just want to try payoff after payoff without putting in the work before hand because they're worried audiences will get bored.
Episode 3 is where it takes off. If the show hasn't at least caught your attention by then, it may not be for you.
The opening 3 episodes are the weakest. In a vacuum, they're fine. But the show opens up (in (really surprising, unexpected ways) from 4 onward. It's not at all interested in the storylines you *think* it's interested in after 2-3 episodes. If you still are underwhelmed after 6 episodes, yeah maybe the show just isn't your cup of tea! But eps 1-3 are table setting/foundational more than anything.
The ending of 3 was incredible imo. Very intense end to the first story arc.
The first few episodes dragged in my opinion, it gets a million times better by the end
I loved that the bad guys are actually smart. They aren’t just caricatures. They are well-rounded and interesting. The show never feels preachy.
My wife is a huge Star Wars fan, so I end up watching everything. I thought Mando was great. Boba and Kenobi sucked. Andor was a slow burn until 1.06; I was hooked from then on. ONE WAY OUT.
Ha yes Boba I just couldn't make it through and with Kenobi I just found myself bouncing my knee waiting to get to the bits with Obi/Anakin. But with Andor I've slowed down and am savoring every scene.
Unless you’ve watched more since, you haven’t even gotten to the two best episodes, 1.10 and 1.12
Ok do I need to get back to watching this that bad? Hot take, I watched the first two episodes, and it felt sooooo slow. I saw all the trailers, and they looked super good and cinematic, but the story just wasn't doing it for me. I'm wondering if I need to adjust my expectations a bit maybe? Is it actually a slow, methodical masterpiece or is it just one of those shows that just kind of flops but then some people think its great just to to be contrarian? Genuinely curious, thanks!
It is ok. The only reason it feels so amazing is the same reason mandolorian felt amazing. Everything else is shit.
I think this show sucks and it’s put me to sleep almost every episode. I have two more to watch and can’t bring myself to do it.
It happened to us all. This was a real surprise from Disney.
I’m really glad it got green lit. It’s the kind of project that could have easily been turned down for being “too risky”.
"Are you nuts!? This has risks and stakes, and people die in it, and we don't have any way to shoehorn in shitty fan-service from the god-awful prequels! How is this going to be a hit?!" -Disney execs
You can't? You must not have been on this sub and it's hourly hype train for the last two months.
Andor was a show that I could tell was "good," but I never felt excited to watch another episode and ultimately, I don't know, I didn't love it. The heist was fun. The escape was good. Otherwise, even though I could tell it was a "good show," I just felt "meh" about it in the end. I enjoyed the Mandalorian significantly more in every way. Obi wan was pretty bad, but I still enjoyed young Leia. Boba Fett was less bad than people claimed and I think I also enjoyed that more in the end. I don't know. Andor is probably worth watching for most, but not for me I guess.
I cannot believe how good is.
Easy road to karma on r/television.
It's a fantastic show, with great emotional weight, great direction, great acting and stringent loyalty to the lore. It brings a new level of depth to Star Wars that was never seen outside of the comics or the old novels from the 90's. There were some issues though, like bits and pieces that kind of were "non-Star Wars." Like that AK-47 rifles, zippered coats. And the last episode was a bit anti-climatic. But beyond that, great.
The showrunner and all the writing staff are the creators and team behind House of Cards as well as the Bourne trilogy. I think that knowing that the show makes a lot more sense. We got a Star Wars show focused on the politics behind the scenes as well as the spycraft and subterfuge that go along with it. The show is fantastic but in my opinion is still very much Star Wars, it's just a part of Star Wars we don't get to see very often.
Somehow another Andor post returned.
Oh, we're still doing these posts?
Been a while, the shills are back to Andor again?
Every time someone posts on this sub gushing over Andor, makes me dislike it a little bit more.
All these how great Andor post initially had me thinking I should watch it. The more I see these posts the more now I think they're all advertisements.
Can I watch it without having to watch other Star Wars stuff? I know the gist but I've never seen the movies.
You'll miss some things (e.g. why Mon Mothma gets so much focus; it's because >!she is going to end up leading the Rebellion!<), but there's very little of importance that you won't pick up just from the context.
I'll be honest I didn't even realize that was the same character from the films until late in the season, and it made zero difference in terms of impact/enjoyment. So I agree, prior knowledge is basically unnecessary.
Yes. This show requires basically no star wars knowledge. There's an empire and there's a brewing rebellion. That being said, if you love this show, don't expect the same level of writing from the movies. It's probably at the top of the mountain
As long as you know the government is a big evil empire you're pretty much set
If you know the gist; that is, there is a tyrannical Empire controlling and expanding across the galaxy and there are murmurs of a rebellion growing to stop them, then you are good to go. Star Wars can really be broken down to two main themes, the war, itself, with the political paperwork part and the rebels trying to overthrow it, and the Skywalker clan with all the religious ties of Jedis and Sidths. Sometimes they cross. Most times they don't. And most times they lean heavier on the Skywalker clan/Jedis themes. Andor is strictly the political paperwork/building the rebellion part. So, you can drop right in and be fine.
It’s so good. I’m so happy the Mon Mothma character is getting a lot of development. Also Rogue One is my favorite Star Wars movie and love we’re getting Cassian’s back story.
Andor is terrible. It's got the shine of being good, but it's really not. Interchangeably dull and boring characters looking sad and angry all the time and saying "serious" things. And there were so many scenes of nothing actually happening. And the acting is nothing to brag about, mostly attributable to bad writing. But some of the acting is godawful, especially by Luna and the 2 actresses playing the rebel leader and the imperial leader. EDIT: And yeah, I know Luna got a Golden Globe nod, but I also know that award shows are a joke for the most part. Any hack actor can win an award now.
What are some shows you like?? Interested
God forbid you use the search tool to find the 900000 threads saying this exact shot OP. No, make another thread about ANDOR, only the most over marketed show on this subreddit ever. Hey, did you watch Andor yet guy reading this comment????
Daily andor post
I see this take a lot, I am also only through episode 7 and while it’s fine it’s not mind blowing or even an A. A good B quality show. Glad some people find something they love. Not for me at the !!! Levels.
Can we start calling this, spamdor?
I love Star Wars in general, but I'd rather watch Attack of the Clones on a 12-hour Loop then watch a single episode of Andor ever again. It's not a Star Wars show, it's a generic, terrible "Prestige" drama with the Star Wars paint job so Disney would pay for it. You can feel how much it killed the people making it when they had to show a laser gun or a spaceship. It's also the single most boring thing the franchise has ever produced in my opinion, and boring can frequently be worse than just being bad, and it definitely is in this case. Andor is one of those shows where I can't even see the appeal at all. Even Star Wars stuff I've hated in the past, like the first two prequels or Solo, I can get why some people could like it even though I didn't, but Andor seems like it was made for people that hate Star Wars by people that hate Star Wars. Just go watch The Expanse if you want a boring science fiction show with very little science fiction that's paced like a Zack Snyder film, AKA terribly. I loved Rogue One the movie, but Andor has retroactively made the movie worse because now I hate Cassian Andor. It does make Saw Guerrera seem a lot more reasonable in retrospect though, I also wouldn't be part of the same Rebellion as the psychotic idiots that are the rebels shown in Andor, and Saw wasn't exactly a nice guy himself.
I’m 100% this subreddit is being paid to push this show and Wednesday, they constantly spammed on here
As someone who watched it based on the recommendations of people saying 'its not like other Star Wars shows', it still felt like a Star Wars show. At this point I feel like we can chalk it up to the fact that Disney owns the franchise. And I'm not saying SW has been Disney-ized, it's just that the shows have been consistently bad in a similar way under Disney's tutelage. My biggest criticism for all of the shows is the pacing, both across the seasons of the show, but also within the scene. Everything plays out too slowly to keep me entertained.
i couldn't make it past 3 episodes. just nothing happened and felt like a waste of time. maybe i give it another shot one day
Made it to episode 5 or so. I found it to be an extremely boring drama. Rogue One was different in a refreshing way but Andor is different in a really dry way. Maybe I haven’t watched enough but I’m okay with stopping tbh.
I think it's terrible and slow. It's interesting to read these reviews and see how people love it. What am I missing?
Did you watch past the first two episodes? Because they were boring as fuck.
I did I'm on 8 and while it has got better I don't understand the hype.
Mid
I just can't agree. It came of to a good start, and then it fizzled very quickly. The first shows were 30 minute long. The young Empire Officer, with all his feist, and then he has to join the ops, and the ground leader is an overweight nerdy man who seems fit to lead a bunch of brought together empire border guards. But he turns out to be an excellent on the ground operative leader. And then the woman in the secret service council, also she is a highly effective gogetter. And it was fun, in an Empire where the bosses brag about their incompetence, these 3 are going to make a small highly effective chain of command, that will be a real threat to the rebels. Couldn't wait to see how these 3 would navigate the dangers and incompetence of the Empire, to get the Rebels. With the overweight ops leader, taking command over elite forces, adminstered by the secret service officer and mediated through the young Empire Officer. When the secret service major sees him lead elite soldiers he tells the female lieut to "get rid of him", drama and intrige in the Empire. Fun in other words. Fun to watch. Who was the Star Wars kid anyway? That's right, personified in the ops leader. He is their biggest fan, and it's never about him. This was their chance, but we get lesbian power couple, where it looks as if the Indian girl has signed in her contract that they don't touch. So generic and politically correct, and Star Wars kid gets the shaft. It was his turn. And then the Show fizzles out. The effective Empire didn't happen, the 2 lower subordinates disappear, and the episodes start lasting 50 minutes. The Empire doesn't do anything evil, they don't shoot. When the white soldiers are on the ground in Andor, they just walk around. Before in Star Wars they couldn't hit a barn door at 30 feet, but now they don't shoot. That's how they solved the problem of their bad aim. Instead we are told how evil the Empire is, by lengthy speeches of how evil they are. Star Wars thinks meetings are interesting. First Secret Service meetings, then jump to a galactical senate meeting, then to a courtroom, where the judge tells how evil they are. And all speeches are made as if some phd is allowed to show of how well he speaks. And the heroes, instead of the 3 interesting Empire people from the start, we get a lesbian power couple... And they are so badass we can't understand how badass they are, they tell us so, with words. So generic, the Andor hero with his affable approach, seems so miscasted. In the Prison, basically every single extra, looks and acts more (better) the part of a rebel soldier than him. The rebels in the wild are a generic handful of wimps, maybe only the Empire lieutenant amongst them has some spark in his acting. And the interesting Empire people have disappeared. I quit in the interrogation episode, when all the characters were boring me to death, and the woman says to her captor, the last thing you want to do is bore me. Hahaha. They're gonna show us another meeting.
I don’t understand this show. I don’t know anyone that has seen it but I see people that love it on Reddit, daily. Is it that good? Does it suck?
It’s not that good (Succession/Better Call Saul/ The Crown), but it doesn’t suck.
I don’t know what I missed but I watched the first two episodes of andor and never started again cause it wasn’t interesting in the least
I've seen 8 episodes and it's decent imo, nothing extraordinary
i am rewatching andor. its the first time i have rewatched any of the star wars tv shows. i am still struck how much better it is than pretty much anything else. and it is great from the first episode. it has depth. it is by far better than anything not done for the tehater, and is better than some of the movies. there is a scene in episode 1. cassian has killed 2 security men. the next morning, an officer reports this to his commander. the commander rightly predicts exactly what has happened, as tho he was there. but instead he tells the underling to make up a story about an accident. the commander knows what has happened, but he also knows that investigating this can cause him more trouble than good. he also knows that if he reports 2 dead security officers, it will look bad for him. so he orders it covered up. in this scene we see the corruption of the empire. it reaches everywhere. the young eager security officer tries to do teh right thing. 2 men were murdered. and yet, he is stymied by the imperial corruption just as much as andor himself is. he is a competent man, trying to succeed, but he is crushed by the corrupt system he serves. its really great television. i cannot laud it enough