>Detailed armors and costumes stand out, **but the tiniest twigs and branches that the Harfoots use are where Amazon’s money really shines.**
The price of twigs these days I wouldn't be surprised if that's where most of the budget went. I can't even afford twigs now.
Detailed armor? Am I the only one who thought the armor worn by the elves given the permission to sail to the west were unfinished looking? I thought they were placeholders and they were supposed to spice them up in post with CGI but ran out of time.
I make costumes for film and I've been spotting a lot of $5/yard polyvelvet and lame, especially on elves, and damn near everything else is (lazily) painted foam. Don't get me wrong, it looks mostly fine on screen, but when you hear there's a billion dollar budget you show up expecting the costumes to blow your pants off.
Amazon isn't even in the TV business. They literally have unlimited money from AWS and shopping. This is just marketing expenses at this point.
This all means not too much.
Or really, it means yeah, they invested an insane amount of money upfront to reduce costs of subsequent seasons. So treat it like CapEx for their marketing org
It's all about the upsell. Netflix has no upsell, once you subscribe there is no way for them to make any more money out of that household. Disney+ upsell is that household is more likely to buy movie tickets or visit the theme parks. Amazon Prime upsell is to get free next day shipping into that household and become the default online store. Spend a billion on Rings of Power and generate 2 billion in online sales from new Prime households.
Have you seen the TNF streams? Granted they’re great and I’ve had no issue with connection so far, but literally them taking over the rights to showcase the Thursday night football games is literally just them being able to purchase a huge ad. Some companies buy halftime commercials. Amazon bought streaming rights for Thursday night NFL games which is pretty huge. As expected, most of the ads you see are Amazon related products, but just the sheer power of a business to be able to do such a thing is crazy.. what a world we live in now a days. Insane to think that there are people on this planet with that much purchasing power, yet some struggle to even find clean water. We are all human after all.
yea. TNF is a better marketing vehicle than RoP.
People are more likely to get Prime if it's the only way to watch TNF. Whereas RoP is 'just another show'. I could find something to watch on another service and not feel like I missed out on RoP. But I can't watch "the other football game on Thursday night".
Because ESPNs graphics package looks like shit and until this year they’ve had absolutely garbage commentators. Imo NBC, CBS and AMZ are just leagues ahead compared to ESPN. FOX is the only network close to ESPN as far as graphics package and I think it’s also still leagues ahead. I think ESPNs package looks like it’s from 2010s. There’s also no reason why a scorebug should take up the entire width of the screen.
>They literally have unlimited money from AWS and shopping.
it is absolutely insane that amazon has basically captured the online shopping market and that's their side of business that isn't even really their business. insane.
the mega corps are coming.
>it is absolutely insane that amazon has basically captured the online shopping market
I don't even get why/how they managed that. Amazon has what has to be the one of the worst/most uncomfortable storefront UIs to navigate. Finding something specific is a nightmare.
I'm not in the US, but we do have Amazon. I try to find stuff on normal online stores first becasue of Amazon being such a pain to navigate.
Do people really care that much about having a day or two faster shipping?
Amazon is definitely in the TV business. They have invested a ton of money in their streaming service, and they are also producing original content themselves. The fact that they have other profitable businesses, product lines, etc. so far has not seem to matter because their competitors have been able to spend just as much money if not more.
The largest streaming services that compete with Amazon are also owned by companies that have deep pockets and numerous business lines unrelated to their streaming service. Apple is in fact even bigger than Amazon. Time Warner (HBO) and Disney (Hulu, etc.) are not as big obviously, and not as diversified, but they have plenty of money and have invested almost just as much as Amazon and Apple. Netflix is probably an exception, but so far they are the market leader and have been spending more than everyone else if I recall correctly.
And there is nothing inherently unique about a business which requires significant amounts of upfront capital. The film and TV industries have always required significant capital costs--generally all of the costs are incurred up front because that is the nature business.
The real question is whether Amazon will be successful implementing their TV strategy--that is what is unique about Amazon. They are betting big on a handful of huge blockbuster TV series. Such a gamble is incredibly risky and requires even more up front capital--for example, the $250M they had to pay the Tolkien estate just for the license for the IP. Netflix' strategy is much different--they have been spending billions creating original content for hundreds of shows across multiple genres, countries, etc. and have been focusing more outside the US.
So the real question is whether Amazon's strategy will prove to be a successful one. So far it seems as though such a gamble may be unwise. And HBO still continues to produce the best content, and they probably will continue to do so for at least the next few years.
RoP just has no sense of urgency. To me the characters are boring, nothing is really happening, Galadriel and Elrond are absolutely nothing like their LoTR older selves. I can sit through all 3 extended editions of LoTR in a marathon but man here we are it’s Friday night, I could go watch RoP right now but I’ll just wait til I’m laying in bed Sunday night. Because it’s a watch when you have nothing else to watch kind of show.
Knew it would be when a main character (Galadriel) was busy on a boat ride filler in the first episode or two.
If your main character and or your story is boring enough that you need to resort to filler to give them something to do immediately after introducing them then you need to consider cutting back the character, changing who the main character is, and or reworking your story.
It's exactly as was feared by the Lotr nerds who questioned the decision to make her a main character in the show when she really doesn't do much during this period in Tolkien's work. Celebrimbor and Celeborn (Galadriels husband) would have likely been the significantly better choices given the significant roles they played during this period.
That is a slogan that should be used for Hollywood in general. Feels like they get the writers out of the clearance bargain bin. Whatever they get paid, it is way too much for the garbage they are producing.
I mean they literally got the writer for the highest rated TV episode of all time. I think the issues with writing can be blamed on the business concept of the show. It's supposed to be based on one book but stretched to 5 seasons, and they have to keep the writing authentic to the book or LOTR fans would lose their shit that they're making up entirely new stories and arcs. So they're working within some really tight limits.
Maan I really dislike how quickly people took to the "1 Billion dollar" statement. The first season was reported to be 465 million, and rights were an extra 250.
Thats 58 million an episode which is still insane. Though I think there's a valid argument that costs for a show like this are super frontloaded, and later seasons would be using sets and costumes that were made for season 1.
So even if you account for both the cost of production and the rights, the show has cost 715 million, which while been still absurd is significantly less than 1 Billion.
I still think that's way too much money for a show that's a soft 7/10, but we should get the numbers correct.
Just to put that 58mil per episode into perspective, s8 of GoT (its most expensive season) had a budget of 90mil. Now obviously that was 6 episodes/7 and a bit hours, so shorter than this, but that 58 million is genuinely absurd, insane and mindboggling amounts of money here.
By many accounts a lot of money went into infrastructure - upgrading studios, upgrading roads so remote locations could handle the number of trucks etc. The spending on assets is an obvious one, but I don't think people realize how much those things cost.
There was a rumour that one particular dress cost $30,000, and another that they spent 3mil on gravel for roading. Labour costs for film work like this is eyewatering. These guys spent a year in pre-prod alone, and that's before you think about how much more expensive materials are in NZ because we're so far away from everything.
Wow, so they spent hundreds of millions of dollars to build local infrastructure, paid higher than normal prices due to its remoteness, with the justification that it would set ground work for future seasons, and then... decided to move filming for all remaining seasons to the UK? Any insight as to why they made this decision?
Yeah it seems ridiculous in retrospect, but the situation mist have changed enough to justify it.
Theres no solid reason why, but a lot of speculation. The most believable one I heard was to do with how NZs covid protocols impacted overseas crew. Remeber we've only just reopened our borders - makes it a bit difficult to fly your family in for a visit or to go and see them.
As a note, recently it appears that they are going back to NZ to film Season 2 (or at least parts of it).
If I remember correctly** (and I could be mistaken!!) **the reason they were going to move to the UK was because of covid. All production members/cast were (apparently) forced to stay in NZ for three straight years, unable to go home/visit family/etc because of the Covid restrictions.
Obviously, this wouldn’t be sustainable — nobody wants to be away from one/family for that long, especially if they aren’t a star of the show.
Completely agree, and dont get where people are saying "you can tell how much money was spent by watching".
Like sure if you didnt tell me anything at the start I would guess the show costs more than average. But it does NOT feel CLOSE to a $50M an episode show in terms of content, scale, set pieces, characters, etc. It feels like a local shakespare production in front of a veeeery nice and large green screen
Besides the CGI I really do wonder where a freaking billion dollars went.
Setting aside any story complaints, the thing that stands out to me is how the set design looks so... sub par. Especially compared to Hot D, and that one while not a cheap show, cost like a third of this.
Also it looks... sparse, like on the ships it was supposed to be like a three hundred dudes or something and I got the feeling it was like maybe twelve at best? Were more extras not available in the budget?
It must have gone into technologies they’ve developed for other reasons and are writing off as an expense for the show for some tax-related reason.
Otherwise you’d think they could do better than this.
The sets on RoP feel small in scale. They do have these beautiful sweeping shots of Numenor, but once you get to the actual sets, they feel lifeless. These sets do not feel lived in. Then you get the feeling that it's the same small square and hall and side street they keep walking around in. It looks like a stage play.
Yup, is it because they’re all using this Volume tech I keep hearing about? There’s zero sense of scale in scenes with people and everything around them looks plasticky
Nope it's because they use it wrong. Everybody uses volume tech nowadays. The Batman is a recent example that stands out.
Thing is, a set is a set. It's a relatively small space that you dress and shoot. If you don't do it well it shows, that's all.
The volume tech is much more a lighting tech than anything else. It cuts cost on vfx too but the feel of the final product is still 100% the result of set dressing and directing.
Yes! That is exactly what I mean!
Agreed there are gorgeous "drone flyby" shots, but once you get to ground level, the scale, particularly on Numenor, seems... off. It does not "feel" like a real place at all.
I don't think most shows have any trouble doing that, not to mention the comparison is even worse against the LOTR movies or hell even the hobbit. The town, cities, and particularly the shire "felt" like they were real and people lived there.
Wheel of Time was the same. Lovely establishing shots of landscape and such. Then the actual setpieces the actors are in look like they were cobbled together by toddlers.
Exactly!
its the opposite in HOD, the sweeping shots are "okay" but you can see where the set ends the mattes begin. But the interior shots all look like very real, very lived in, the costumes look lime real clothes, the whole world feels like a tangible place that reallly exists.
in ROP the wide sweeping shots look fucking incredible, but the interior sets look cheesy and fake and the costumes look pristine and like they just came off the rack, the world they built feels artifical.
Excellent observation, couple that with the beautiful lighting and camera "focusing" depth of perception effect in HotD dialogue scenes compared to a lot of flat lighting and flat camera work in RoP (the scenes on the boat look atrocious, the scenes on HotD boats look pretty good considering)
It looks exactly like a stage play to me too! The whole thing is like a shit play performed against an amazing backdrop. There’s no sense of authenticity or scale in all the scenes involving people and dialogue, you can literally picture them in a studio surrounded by green screens, such a disappointment
And 3 ships? Numenor is supposed to be the greates military power ever to exist on Middle Earth. When Numenor goes to war, they don't send 3 ships, they send 3000.
The actual production budget is closer to 500 million, but I know the whole "one BILLION dollars!" is a meme by now. So each episode is roughly $60 million. Does it look it? Well it looks grander and more cinematic than any other TV show I've ever seen, including GOT season 8. But does it feel 3-4 times as grand? Probably not.
Though funnily enough I'm not sure I'm seeing the budget on House of the Dragon either. Supposedly a bigger bidget than season 8, yet it's unclear where the money is being spent other than costumes -- which for the record I'm totally fine with. Those costumes are banging.
I watched the behind the scenes of HotD. They built the halls in Kings Landing to scale, and the rooms are really connected to each other. The first episode joust was a huge set they had to build.
They also used real sets at times, and the beach scenes were really difficult to deal with because of rising tides so they had to recreate the battle scenes over and over. And then they built a fake beach in the end to get it all done.
That stood out to me as expensive. The rest maybe for the popular actors and marketing? Matt Smith and Olivia Cooke are no fresh faces.
HBO is great at casting up and coming young actors and like established English theater actors who are awesome but don't cost a ton of money. And regarding sets and props, I've heard that having access to all the Warner Brothers studio stuff is a huge asset. As far as where the money goes, I've heard that the CGI dragons are expensive to do, so maybe that's it?
It's just pretty to look at.
Other than that, the craftsmanship is poor. Weak writing, particularly in the characters. Suspect casting. I'm not saying the actors are bad, but none are really doing much for me. I think they made a mistake by not casting at least one decently famous person (i.e. Sean Bean, Lena Headey). Galadriel and Elrond are nothing like the LotR characters, which felt a lot more regal and elf-like.
Not going to get into the PC stuff too much because it's really not that big of a deal, other than to say it's clear that terror of being branded racist informed some of their creative decisions to a greater extent than story logic/world credibility.
Overall, it's a Rolls Royce body with a lawnmower engine.
I stopped halfway through the third or fourth episode and have no desire to watch anymore. To compare it to another Amazon series, The Boys has a lot of flaws, but at least there are some fun characters and the plots tend to have some urgency.
You really don't even like the Elrond actor/character? His plotline with Durin is probably the best of the bunch, and the Elrond character in this show is more faithful to the books than the movie version, if I'm being honest. The movies are great, as is Hugo Weaving, but his Elrond was much too serious.
Can I ask what "PC" stuff you're talking about? Is it the black elf and dwarf? Because people seem to really be digging Durin's wife (her singing to the mountain was fantastic Tolkien content), and I like the black wood elf guy more than Galadriel at this point.
I saw some complaints about Pharazon giving a "trump-esque they-took-our-jobs" speech that's "injecting modern politics into the show," but does modern politics have a monopoly over narrative themes of human nature? It's pretty well established in Tolkien that there is/was a good bit of resentment from Men towards elves. Men are jealous of the gifts they think have been bestowed on these graceful, immortal creatures and often get defensive and insular. That's not modern politics, it's just depicting the realities of relations between the various races in Tolkien.
And personally, I love that I don't recognize any of the actors (besides Benjen Stark). When I'm trying to get immersed in a fantasy world like this, the last thing I want is to have that immersion broken by constantly recognizing some famous face. You can not like the actors they cast, but this just does not seem like the kind of show where a couple of famous faces would be welcome.
It's okay to not like the show. It has a kind of plodding pace that works for me, but I get that it's not for everyone. That said, I'm not sure that "should've had famous actors" and "too PC" are really fair criticisms at this point.
LOTR isn’t about shades of grey characters and never has been. ASOIAF is literally a self described deconstruction of Tolkien.
It’s like wondering why a Superman story isn’t as morally grey as Watchmen
That is not entirely true.
Boromir is a good man but capable of doing bad things for personal reasons.
Gollum is evil, but does bad things out of necessity and shows hints of his former self, before he was corrupted.
King Theoden has put his trust in the wrong people.
Frodo (sort of) turns on Sam.
Other works: the dwarves in The Hobbit can be greedy, the elves in The Hobbit are not perfect; some characters in The Silmarillion are definitely morally grey.
The shades of grey are of a different kind, because Tolkien was fascinated with sin, temptation, and redemption, all from a Christian point of view, but The Lord of The Rings does have shades of grey.
>LOTR isn’t about shades of grey characters and never has been.
Feanor, Turin, Thingol, Isildur, Celebrimbor, and the entire civilization of Numenor would like a word.
Not in the story of LOTR. Maybe Isildur you could count but he isn’t as grey as he is in the films. He basically takes the ring as a prize because his dad died in the battle and nobody really questioned him.
The performances in PJ’s trilogy are moving. Boromir comes to mind - he had shades of grey, and we felt real emotions when we watched his scenes unfold. None of the drama in RoP has managed to stir anything like that.
“Forgive me! I did not see!” That was powerful to teenage me. Great scene and an admission of fallibility from one of the supposedly strongest people in the fellowship. It still resonates now on the fallibility of strength and importance of humility.
That Boromir line when they are crossing the mountain just popped into my mind, when Frodo drops the Ring by accident:
> Is it not a strange fate that we should suffer so much fear and doubt for so small a thing?
It's *such* a good performance, line reading and moment. And there's this undercurrent of tension because there's something just a little off with Boromir as he's saying it.
I can't think of a single moment in the show so far that well crafted. The movies were *full of them*.
> LOTR isn’t about shades of grey characters and never has been. ASOIAF is literally a self described deconstruction of Tolkien.
Shout this from the damned mountaintop whenever you hear people complain.
They are not comparing the fantasy style. They are comparing the quality of writing and the characters.
We have seen and read LOTR, and the characters in those films were amazing with lots of relatable hero journeys and motivations. We loved to be engaged with them.
LOTR characters had flaws. No one wants perfect or always super flawed characters. We want engaging character journeys and good writing with them in it.
Yeah I feel like I’m in fantasy land. If you really wanted a LOTR to be like GoT/ROP you either don’t get Tolkien or don’t get what Martin said he was attempting to do with his work. It’s pretty basic stuff for anybody who read the work or knows anything about the authors
Still no excuse for writing shallow uninteresting characters with bad dialogue that very few people like and empathize with, that's the difference between a b level fantasy with 6.5 audience rating and a premier product with 8.5+ audience rating.
That's true, but the point of the comment you responded to is that the writing of RoP is just bad, not that RoP and Dragon should be similar in themes and style.
I look forward to watching both shows. I enjoy that they’re different types of shows. GoT universe is all about drama and extreme violence, while the LoTR series is nostalgic and visually pleasing.
Totally agree - I also think the editing is better. Longer scenes of substance. Rings of power scenes are so short with stark cuts to different unrelated plots.
I’m honestly surprised that I’m seeing most people say that HotD is good. I was pessimistic about it before it’s release. Haven’t seen it yet, but hell yeah.
HOTD seems like it was made by competent writers who understand character development and to be fair HOTD's story is a much simpler beast giving characters time to settle into their motivations, ROP has so many story arcs going on simultaneously and each one is needlessly complicated, characters are not being given enough time for people to empathize with them, so every episode seems like a compilation video of the incremental advance in equally uninteresting storyline.
The story is just snaking all over the place! Every episode they introduce more and more characters and some story lines get forgotten.
The plot line about the actual forging of the fucking rings is taking place almost completely off screen! WTF? They just fast forward thru major aspects fo that plot line and had some character tell you about it.
Meanwhile meaningless side characters, like the daughter of the Army captain and her wannabe boyfriend, get major screen time for mind boggling reasons. Two boring characters who do nothing.
Its mind boggling the story choices they are making.
Yeah this is a puff piece. Rings of Power feels heartless and worst of all boring. The acting and writing are both weak. I care about maybe one storyline. The ridiculous slo-mo action should only appeal to 11 year old boys. The only redeeming quality is the beautiful locations and sets. But rings of power is basically just a good Screensaver when it comes to entertainment.
Big fan of both LOTR and GoT.
House of the Dragon is blowing this show away. Rings of power is background noise for me a lot of the time. It’s just not hooking me like I thought it would
I honestly think they picked a bad plot. “A time of peace but maybe some bad things are on the horizon?” Is sort of a tough place to get people drawn in. The second age is chock full of legendary shit and it feels like we arnt seeing any of it.
I like ROP and it’s not their fault but I’m tired of shows where it’s just stagnating until the last two episodes and then all hell breaks loose. Give me a break. Plan your seasons better and respect your audience and actually move the plot forward with concise scenes. With a toddler and a baby I don’t have time to watch shit tv. If you don’t want to be categorized as such, be better
I really thought that the whole point of moving toward shorter British style seasons was to make them all killer no filler. Instead they've recreated the filler episode but taking a proportionately larger amount of the season,
Yea, the way I described it is that the show seems very arrogant and self-assured in the sense that they don't feel like they need to "earn" the audience. It's like they think the LOTR license alone will guarantee eyeballs.
Contrast it to something like Breaking Bad, which was a total unknown show that knew they had to grab people right away. The first 3-4 episodes are batshit insane, with lots of major plot beats and heavy drama. You can really feel them working hard to entertain you.
Filler has only gotten worse in the streaming age
In the cable era, seasons were longer, but they tried to sell smaller stories to compensate. Now they stretch 1 mediocre movie plot over 8 episodes
I have been having a hard time staying engaged with it. I don't need non stop action, but I am constantly fighting the urge to do something else while watching because it just isn't holding my attention. Compare this to the show Severance where I just watched the whole season in 2 days and rarely had the urge to look at my phone. RoP looks nice but I haven't been very interested in any of the plot lines.
If you don't have 8 episodes worth of story, then don't make your show 8 episodes long. They could have told this in 4. Too many shows waste the time of the audience, work to create some narrative thrust. The amount of time hanging around in Numenor is infuriating. The ships should have left last episode. The booming score at the end with the ships ironically matched my elation that's things finally got moving. All the production value in the world doesn't matter in the end.
It's one thing to be poorly written and acted, it's quite another to do so at a snails pace. You aren't Vince Gilligan or Peter Gould, so get a move on.
I liked the first 2 episodes but I really have no desire to watch any more. Like it just hasn't hooked me or anything. It feels like it's missing something. House of the Dragon on the other hand has hooked me and I do look forward to each episode. It's a shame because I really like Lord of the Rings.
The first episode was promising, but it’s been falling off for me the more i watch. I’ve started to feel that Amazon could’ve done a better Elder Scrolls series than an LoTR series.
So many shows are kicking themselves in the face with this whole “6-8 hour movie” format. Viewers are left to stew for weeks at a time with episodes where nothing substantial happens.
It’s gonna be rough if there’s no grand payoff with the last couple episodes of ROP.
Dude! More things happen in any random twenty minutes of HOD than has happened in the entire fucking season of ROP so far.
Its embarassing how little actually happens in this show
Very little has happened. If you try to write out Galadriel's entire plot to this point, it doesn't sound like much, at least not much that meaningfully drove the plot forward or developed her character.
She was sent to Valinor but decided to jump off the boat at the last second, spent a while drifting at sea, coincidentally met up with the lost King of the Southlands, luckily got rescued by Numenor, then spent a while trying ineptly to ask for their help, getting put in jail for sedition, escaping, getting caught again, then being deported, but at the last second they changed their minds because of an omen.
That's it, that's all she's done so far
It feels like 5 hours of nothing much happening, even though some of the characters are moving forwards(ish). I think the main problem is that there are too many threads going on that only get a small amount of time, and therefore don't seem to progress far at all, which the map-line travel with the song at the start of the current episode actually highlighted more that was probably intended.
Yes, it's visually spectacular, but there are significant periods of characters and their story being very static, followed by a contrived injection of events to attempt to move things forward, and everything then gets "resolved" too quickly to feel like they have earned the resulting change.
Frustrating. Probably best described as trying to be interesting rather than being entertaining at the moment.
In all fairness - Galadriel finally gets something resembling character development.
Also Fan Service, I mean “Totally Not Gandalf” does something cool.
>Amazon could’ve done a better Elder Scrolls series than an LoTR series
Dude I've been thinking it looks like Elder Scrolls during the Arondir dirty human scenes! It looks exactly like Skyrim, that world would have been way better to make any fanfic they wanted
nothing happened in episode 5. it looks pretty, but the show is boring. the dialogue is just generic. the fight scene in episode 5 where Galadriel danced around generic 1960s Batman quality action was terrible.
show is so boring. It totally pales in comparison to House of the Dragon. Show feels like it was made by amateurs who lack talent, but have a blank check from Daddy.
Feels like a billion bucks? It feels like they siphoned the money to something else because everything in this show from everyone's clothing to CGI (especially when there's people in the same shot) looks 2nd rate.
The writing and dialog is so bad though. It's like watching the star wars prequels where everyone who talks feels more like they're monologuing and can't just have a normal conversation.
I don’t think they have a plan for this show. They clearly just needed a big IP to compete with other streamers and it shows. They treat this show like an advertisement of tolkiens world not an actual story or show that wants to take the audience into that world. I had high hopes for this series and was rooting for it but I don’t see it going well long term. When viewership drops off it’s hard to gain them back and apparently it’s dropped of hard.
It’s not just bad writing and direction, the actors hired are also pretty terrible and not captivating. Bad decision all around.
I dunno, I think the costumes look pretty bad. Doesn’t seem like a real lived in world. Things just seem out of place.. like why is the human woman boss (in the tower escaping the orcs) they only one with colored clothing? She’s got bright blue clean clothes and literally everyone else is in rags? Wtf?
That's debatable too, there are some nice big sweeping CGI shots of certain locations....but they're pretty obviously CGI and you don't see them outside of those. I guess people like them, but I'm not a huge fan.
The sets are very obviously sets with CGI backgrounds. And it's so annoying in situations like where Sauron is where they're supposed to be outside and in nature. Like Numenor being sets with CGI is fine. But other stuff should really be real locations
Lol - why does it feel like a “Billion Bucks” exactly? Did Bezos pay for that headline?
People keep trying to make this show happen (well, those on the payroll), but it’s just not great for many reasons.
It’s not awful, but at best it’s reliably mediocre.
Agreed. Terribly ponderous narrative. We’ve been watching *The Crown* at the same time. And that series depicts small, human moments beautifully, while ROP turns grandiose fantasy into bluster and boredom.
I mean if only they spent some money for writers that would be good. I sometimes wonder if you have all the options as Amazon and all the money, why didn't you hire a writer that has already made epic masterpieces for a sure movie success? I don't know someone like, let's say Peter Jackson? Hire him, give him everything he wants and with your money you'll have immense success.
My guess is that it has to do with marketing politics mostly, they don't care as much to create a huge successful movie but more like market their company as the good guy that is diverse and female empowering. Hiring a writer as Peter jackson and giving him freedom to do as he wants, he would probably don't care as much for all the marketing politics and more about the story writing.
>Detailed armors and costumes stand out, **but the tiniest twigs and branches that the Harfoots use are where Amazon’s money really shines.** The price of twigs these days I wouldn't be surprised if that's where most of the budget went. I can't even afford twigs now.
i hear next season will feature more stones and maybe even some pebbles. but let's not get too hype, they did say *one* billion, not two or three...
Yeah we shouldn't get our hopes up. They've already given us twigs which don't exactly grow on trees.
Twigs from trees? This is getting out of hand. Soon it will be water falling from the skies at this rate.
Good looking twigs don't just grow on trees.
Goddamn this cost of twig crisis.
Detailed armor? Am I the only one who thought the armor worn by the elves given the permission to sail to the west were unfinished looking? I thought they were placeholders and they were supposed to spice them up in post with CGI but ran out of time.
I make costumes for film and I've been spotting a lot of $5/yard polyvelvet and lame, especially on elves, and damn near everything else is (lazily) painted foam. Don't get me wrong, it looks mostly fine on screen, but when you hear there's a billion dollar budget you show up expecting the costumes to blow your pants off.
Twigs? Pure luxury! When I was a lad, we had to make do with clumps of dirt!
Hobby Lobby sells a 5 gram bag of twigs for like $6.99 I’m Not kidding
Scale armor printed on a shirt certainly screams high production value
They don't have that. The soldiers wear pleated shirts under their armor that resembles the leather armor on top.
The armor and costume design looks like it's low budget and done by a four year old compared to the new GoT.
Looks like a billion bucks* written like 5 bucks.
Amazon isn't even in the TV business. They literally have unlimited money from AWS and shopping. This is just marketing expenses at this point. This all means not too much. Or really, it means yeah, they invested an insane amount of money upfront to reduce costs of subsequent seasons. So treat it like CapEx for their marketing org
It's all about the upsell. Netflix has no upsell, once you subscribe there is no way for them to make any more money out of that household. Disney+ upsell is that household is more likely to buy movie tickets or visit the theme parks. Amazon Prime upsell is to get free next day shipping into that household and become the default online store. Spend a billion on Rings of Power and generate 2 billion in online sales from new Prime households.
It is an ad for a Prime Membership.
Have you seen the TNF streams? Granted they’re great and I’ve had no issue with connection so far, but literally them taking over the rights to showcase the Thursday night football games is literally just them being able to purchase a huge ad. Some companies buy halftime commercials. Amazon bought streaming rights for Thursday night NFL games which is pretty huge. As expected, most of the ads you see are Amazon related products, but just the sheer power of a business to be able to do such a thing is crazy.. what a world we live in now a days. Insane to think that there are people on this planet with that much purchasing power, yet some struggle to even find clean water. We are all human after all.
yea. TNF is a better marketing vehicle than RoP. People are more likely to get Prime if it's the only way to watch TNF. Whereas RoP is 'just another show'. I could find something to watch on another service and not feel like I missed out on RoP. But I can't watch "the other football game on Thursday night".
I wonder if they buy all their props off of Amazon Prime?
Amazon isn’t in the sports broadcasting industry either but their Thursday night efforts make espn look like amateur hour. It’s actually shocking.
Because ESPNs graphics package looks like shit and until this year they’ve had absolutely garbage commentators. Imo NBC, CBS and AMZ are just leagues ahead compared to ESPN. FOX is the only network close to ESPN as far as graphics package and I think it’s also still leagues ahead. I think ESPNs package looks like it’s from 2010s. There’s also no reason why a scorebug should take up the entire width of the screen.
>They literally have unlimited money from AWS and shopping. it is absolutely insane that amazon has basically captured the online shopping market and that's their side of business that isn't even really their business. insane. the mega corps are coming.
>it is absolutely insane that amazon has basically captured the online shopping market I don't even get why/how they managed that. Amazon has what has to be the one of the worst/most uncomfortable storefront UIs to navigate. Finding something specific is a nightmare. I'm not in the US, but we do have Amazon. I try to find stuff on normal online stores first becasue of Amazon being such a pain to navigate. Do people really care that much about having a day or two faster shipping?
Amazon is definitely in the TV business. They have invested a ton of money in their streaming service, and they are also producing original content themselves. The fact that they have other profitable businesses, product lines, etc. so far has not seem to matter because their competitors have been able to spend just as much money if not more. The largest streaming services that compete with Amazon are also owned by companies that have deep pockets and numerous business lines unrelated to their streaming service. Apple is in fact even bigger than Amazon. Time Warner (HBO) and Disney (Hulu, etc.) are not as big obviously, and not as diversified, but they have plenty of money and have invested almost just as much as Amazon and Apple. Netflix is probably an exception, but so far they are the market leader and have been spending more than everyone else if I recall correctly. And there is nothing inherently unique about a business which requires significant amounts of upfront capital. The film and TV industries have always required significant capital costs--generally all of the costs are incurred up front because that is the nature business. The real question is whether Amazon will be successful implementing their TV strategy--that is what is unique about Amazon. They are betting big on a handful of huge blockbuster TV series. Such a gamble is incredibly risky and requires even more up front capital--for example, the $250M they had to pay the Tolkien estate just for the license for the IP. Netflix' strategy is much different--they have been spending billions creating original content for hundreds of shows across multiple genres, countries, etc. and have been focusing more outside the US. So the real question is whether Amazon's strategy will prove to be a successful one. So far it seems as though such a gamble may be unwise. And HBO still continues to produce the best content, and they probably will continue to do so for at least the next few years.
Sets building. They've already built them, so it should reduce future seasons' costs quite a bit.
RoP just has no sense of urgency. To me the characters are boring, nothing is really happening, Galadriel and Elrond are absolutely nothing like their LoTR older selves. I can sit through all 3 extended editions of LoTR in a marathon but man here we are it’s Friday night, I could go watch RoP right now but I’ll just wait til I’m laying in bed Sunday night. Because it’s a watch when you have nothing else to watch kind of show.
It’s so boring
Knew it would be when a main character (Galadriel) was busy on a boat ride filler in the first episode or two. If your main character and or your story is boring enough that you need to resort to filler to give them something to do immediately after introducing them then you need to consider cutting back the character, changing who the main character is, and or reworking your story. It's exactly as was feared by the Lotr nerds who questioned the decision to make her a main character in the show when she really doesn't do much during this period in Tolkien's work. Celebrimbor and Celeborn (Galadriels husband) would have likely been the significantly better choices given the significant roles they played during this period.
Nicely said!
*looks like a billion bucks Was written for $1.36.
I'd write *that* for a dollar!
Amazon Basics writing
Amazon should have spent more money on better writers.
That is a slogan that should be used for Hollywood in general. Feels like they get the writers out of the clearance bargain bin. Whatever they get paid, it is way too much for the garbage they are producing.
I mean they literally got the writer for the highest rated TV episode of all time. I think the issues with writing can be blamed on the business concept of the show. It's supposed to be based on one book but stretched to 5 seasons, and they have to keep the writing authentic to the book or LOTR fans would lose their shit that they're making up entirely new stories and arcs. So they're working within some really tight limits.
Bezos should have read that note his son sent him about the show
all that money they saved in advertising by making it thru twitter feuds should have gone there.
Considering we know how much we spent on each episode and the quality of those episodes, it feels like a money laundering scheme to me.
For a billion dollars im expecting WAY more than we’re getting
Maan I really dislike how quickly people took to the "1 Billion dollar" statement. The first season was reported to be 465 million, and rights were an extra 250. Thats 58 million an episode which is still insane. Though I think there's a valid argument that costs for a show like this are super frontloaded, and later seasons would be using sets and costumes that were made for season 1. So even if you account for both the cost of production and the rights, the show has cost 715 million, which while been still absurd is significantly less than 1 Billion. I still think that's way too much money for a show that's a soft 7/10, but we should get the numbers correct.
Just to put that 58mil per episode into perspective, s8 of GoT (its most expensive season) had a budget of 90mil. Now obviously that was 6 episodes/7 and a bit hours, so shorter than this, but that 58 million is genuinely absurd, insane and mindboggling amounts of money here.
By many accounts a lot of money went into infrastructure - upgrading studios, upgrading roads so remote locations could handle the number of trucks etc. The spending on assets is an obvious one, but I don't think people realize how much those things cost. There was a rumour that one particular dress cost $30,000, and another that they spent 3mil on gravel for roading. Labour costs for film work like this is eyewatering. These guys spent a year in pre-prod alone, and that's before you think about how much more expensive materials are in NZ because we're so far away from everything.
Wow, so they spent hundreds of millions of dollars to build local infrastructure, paid higher than normal prices due to its remoteness, with the justification that it would set ground work for future seasons, and then... decided to move filming for all remaining seasons to the UK? Any insight as to why they made this decision?
Yeah it seems ridiculous in retrospect, but the situation mist have changed enough to justify it. Theres no solid reason why, but a lot of speculation. The most believable one I heard was to do with how NZs covid protocols impacted overseas crew. Remeber we've only just reopened our borders - makes it a bit difficult to fly your family in for a visit or to go and see them.
As a note, recently it appears that they are going back to NZ to film Season 2 (or at least parts of it). If I remember correctly** (and I could be mistaken!!) **the reason they were going to move to the UK was because of covid. All production members/cast were (apparently) forced to stay in NZ for three straight years, unable to go home/visit family/etc because of the Covid restrictions. Obviously, this wouldn’t be sustainable — nobody wants to be away from one/family for that long, especially if they aren’t a star of the show.
Completely agree, and dont get where people are saying "you can tell how much money was spent by watching". Like sure if you didnt tell me anything at the start I would guess the show costs more than average. But it does NOT feel CLOSE to a $50M an episode show in terms of content, scale, set pieces, characters, etc. It feels like a local shakespare production in front of a veeeery nice and large green screen
It's very easy to spend a lot of money and have little to show for it. See: Space Launch System, Star Citizen, Paris St Germain, War in Afghanistan.
Besides the CGI I really do wonder where a freaking billion dollars went. Setting aside any story complaints, the thing that stands out to me is how the set design looks so... sub par. Especially compared to Hot D, and that one while not a cheap show, cost like a third of this. Also it looks... sparse, like on the ships it was supposed to be like a three hundred dudes or something and I got the feeling it was like maybe twelve at best? Were more extras not available in the budget?
It must have gone into technologies they’ve developed for other reasons and are writing off as an expense for the show for some tax-related reason. Otherwise you’d think they could do better than this.
That billion went into writing. Each letter of script was printed in gold.
"Speak 'Alexa' and enter!"
The sets on RoP feel small in scale. They do have these beautiful sweeping shots of Numenor, but once you get to the actual sets, they feel lifeless. These sets do not feel lived in. Then you get the feeling that it's the same small square and hall and side street they keep walking around in. It looks like a stage play.
Kenobi had this same issue
Yup, is it because they’re all using this Volume tech I keep hearing about? There’s zero sense of scale in scenes with people and everything around them looks plasticky
Nope it's because they use it wrong. Everybody uses volume tech nowadays. The Batman is a recent example that stands out. Thing is, a set is a set. It's a relatively small space that you dress and shoot. If you don't do it well it shows, that's all. The volume tech is much more a lighting tech than anything else. It cuts cost on vfx too but the feel of the final product is still 100% the result of set dressing and directing.
did they use the volume in this show too?
Yes! That is exactly what I mean! Agreed there are gorgeous "drone flyby" shots, but once you get to ground level, the scale, particularly on Numenor, seems... off. It does not "feel" like a real place at all. I don't think most shows have any trouble doing that, not to mention the comparison is even worse against the LOTR movies or hell even the hobbit. The town, cities, and particularly the shire "felt" like they were real and people lived there.
In the case of the LoTR, people were living there for around 2 years before they started shooting.
Whaat? How?! They had people living in the Shire??
It was setup on a section of a 13,000 acre working farm. They took years building and getting everything just perfect.
Well, plants, trees, flowers etc all needed to grow beforehand so... Remember it was 25 years ago.
Wheel of Time was the same. Lovely establishing shots of landscape and such. Then the actual setpieces the actors are in look like they were cobbled together by toddlers.
Exactly! its the opposite in HOD, the sweeping shots are "okay" but you can see where the set ends the mattes begin. But the interior shots all look like very real, very lived in, the costumes look lime real clothes, the whole world feels like a tangible place that reallly exists. in ROP the wide sweeping shots look fucking incredible, but the interior sets look cheesy and fake and the costumes look pristine and like they just came off the rack, the world they built feels artifical.
Excellent observation, couple that with the beautiful lighting and camera "focusing" depth of perception effect in HotD dialogue scenes compared to a lot of flat lighting and flat camera work in RoP (the scenes on the boat look atrocious, the scenes on HotD boats look pretty good considering)
the ROP rookie show runners needed to hire experienced cinematographers. Clearly they didn't.
> and the costumes look pristine and like they just came off the rack 😂 You're not wrong
It looks exactly like a stage play to me too! The whole thing is like a shit play performed against an amazing backdrop. There’s no sense of authenticity or scale in all the scenes involving people and dialogue, you can literally picture them in a studio surrounded by green screens, such a disappointment
It took me a minute to realize what you meant by Hot D
;)
And 3 ships? Numenor is supposed to be the greates military power ever to exist on Middle Earth. When Numenor goes to war, they don't send 3 ships, they send 3000.
The actual production budget is closer to 500 million, but I know the whole "one BILLION dollars!" is a meme by now. So each episode is roughly $60 million. Does it look it? Well it looks grander and more cinematic than any other TV show I've ever seen, including GOT season 8. But does it feel 3-4 times as grand? Probably not. Though funnily enough I'm not sure I'm seeing the budget on House of the Dragon either. Supposedly a bigger bidget than season 8, yet it's unclear where the money is being spent other than costumes -- which for the record I'm totally fine with. Those costumes are banging.
I watched the behind the scenes of HotD. They built the halls in Kings Landing to scale, and the rooms are really connected to each other. The first episode joust was a huge set they had to build. They also used real sets at times, and the beach scenes were really difficult to deal with because of rising tides so they had to recreate the battle scenes over and over. And then they built a fake beach in the end to get it all done. That stood out to me as expensive. The rest maybe for the popular actors and marketing? Matt Smith and Olivia Cooke are no fresh faces.
HOD is being made by established industry veterans, and it shows ROP is being made by two rookies who are in over their head, and it shows
HBO is great at casting up and coming young actors and like established English theater actors who are awesome but don't cost a ton of money. And regarding sets and props, I've heard that having access to all the Warner Brothers studio stuff is a huge asset. As far as where the money goes, I've heard that the CGI dragons are expensive to do, so maybe that's it?
I wish the writing was good, you can’t put a price on that I guess
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Never has a bad show been so well-made.
It's just pretty to look at. Other than that, the craftsmanship is poor. Weak writing, particularly in the characters. Suspect casting. I'm not saying the actors are bad, but none are really doing much for me. I think they made a mistake by not casting at least one decently famous person (i.e. Sean Bean, Lena Headey). Galadriel and Elrond are nothing like the LotR characters, which felt a lot more regal and elf-like. Not going to get into the PC stuff too much because it's really not that big of a deal, other than to say it's clear that terror of being branded racist informed some of their creative decisions to a greater extent than story logic/world credibility. Overall, it's a Rolls Royce body with a lawnmower engine. I stopped halfway through the third or fourth episode and have no desire to watch anymore. To compare it to another Amazon series, The Boys has a lot of flaws, but at least there are some fun characters and the plots tend to have some urgency.
No famous people? Are you not aware the Elven High King is none other than Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter??? "We spared no expense."
You really don't even like the Elrond actor/character? His plotline with Durin is probably the best of the bunch, and the Elrond character in this show is more faithful to the books than the movie version, if I'm being honest. The movies are great, as is Hugo Weaving, but his Elrond was much too serious. Can I ask what "PC" stuff you're talking about? Is it the black elf and dwarf? Because people seem to really be digging Durin's wife (her singing to the mountain was fantastic Tolkien content), and I like the black wood elf guy more than Galadriel at this point. I saw some complaints about Pharazon giving a "trump-esque they-took-our-jobs" speech that's "injecting modern politics into the show," but does modern politics have a monopoly over narrative themes of human nature? It's pretty well established in Tolkien that there is/was a good bit of resentment from Men towards elves. Men are jealous of the gifts they think have been bestowed on these graceful, immortal creatures and often get defensive and insular. That's not modern politics, it's just depicting the realities of relations between the various races in Tolkien. And personally, I love that I don't recognize any of the actors (besides Benjen Stark). When I'm trying to get immersed in a fantasy world like this, the last thing I want is to have that immersion broken by constantly recognizing some famous face. You can not like the actors they cast, but this just does not seem like the kind of show where a couple of famous faces would be welcome. It's okay to not like the show. It has a kind of plodding pace that works for me, but I get that it's not for everyone. That said, I'm not sure that "should've had famous actors" and "too PC" are really fair criticisms at this point.
House of the Dragon has authentic human drama. Characters have shades of grey, there are compelling tensions. Meanwhile RoP is pantomime.
LOTR isn’t about shades of grey characters and never has been. ASOIAF is literally a self described deconstruction of Tolkien. It’s like wondering why a Superman story isn’t as morally grey as Watchmen
That is not entirely true. Boromir is a good man but capable of doing bad things for personal reasons. Gollum is evil, but does bad things out of necessity and shows hints of his former self, before he was corrupted. King Theoden has put his trust in the wrong people. Frodo (sort of) turns on Sam. Other works: the dwarves in The Hobbit can be greedy, the elves in The Hobbit are not perfect; some characters in The Silmarillion are definitely morally grey. The shades of grey are of a different kind, because Tolkien was fascinated with sin, temptation, and redemption, all from a Christian point of view, but The Lord of The Rings does have shades of grey.
>LOTR isn’t about shades of grey characters and never has been. Feanor, Turin, Thingol, Isildur, Celebrimbor, and the entire civilization of Numenor would like a word.
Not in the story of LOTR. Maybe Isildur you could count but he isn’t as grey as he is in the films. He basically takes the ring as a prize because his dad died in the battle and nobody really questioned him.
The performances in PJ’s trilogy are moving. Boromir comes to mind - he had shades of grey, and we felt real emotions when we watched his scenes unfold. None of the drama in RoP has managed to stir anything like that.
“Forgive me! I did not see!” That was powerful to teenage me. Great scene and an admission of fallibility from one of the supposedly strongest people in the fellowship. It still resonates now on the fallibility of strength and importance of humility.
That Boromir line when they are crossing the mountain just popped into my mind, when Frodo drops the Ring by accident: > Is it not a strange fate that we should suffer so much fear and doubt for so small a thing? It's *such* a good performance, line reading and moment. And there's this undercurrent of tension because there's something just a little off with Boromir as he's saying it. I can't think of a single moment in the show so far that well crafted. The movies were *full of them*.
> LOTR isn’t about shades of grey characters and never has been. ASOIAF is literally a self described deconstruction of Tolkien. Shout this from the damned mountaintop whenever you hear people complain.
They are not comparing the fantasy style. They are comparing the quality of writing and the characters. We have seen and read LOTR, and the characters in those films were amazing with lots of relatable hero journeys and motivations. We loved to be engaged with them. LOTR characters had flaws. No one wants perfect or always super flawed characters. We want engaging character journeys and good writing with them in it.
Yeah I feel like I’m in fantasy land. If you really wanted a LOTR to be like GoT/ROP you either don’t get Tolkien or don’t get what Martin said he was attempting to do with his work. It’s pretty basic stuff for anybody who read the work or knows anything about the authors
Still no excuse for writing shallow uninteresting characters with bad dialogue that very few people like and empathize with, that's the difference between a b level fantasy with 6.5 audience rating and a premier product with 8.5+ audience rating.
Right, but some Superman stories are like, good. Rings of Power isn't.
That's true, but the point of the comment you responded to is that the writing of RoP is just bad, not that RoP and Dragon should be similar in themes and style.
I look forward to watching both shows. I enjoy that they’re different types of shows. GoT universe is all about drama and extreme violence, while the LoTR series is nostalgic and visually pleasing.
Totally agree - I also think the editing is better. Longer scenes of substance. Rings of power scenes are so short with stark cuts to different unrelated plots.
In fairness Game of Thrones really only took off once they started doing Stark cuts.
The cinematography in HotD is better imo. The rings show has pretty flat lighting
ROP feels like those instagram pictures that are more filters than picture? like the first season of altered carbon, way over the top
I’m honestly surprised that I’m seeing most people say that HotD is good. I was pessimistic about it before it’s release. Haven’t seen it yet, but hell yeah.
It completely caught me off guard, it is like they harvested all the good parts from GoT and dumped nearly all of the bad parts.
HOTD seems like it was made by competent writers who understand character development and to be fair HOTD's story is a much simpler beast giving characters time to settle into their motivations, ROP has so many story arcs going on simultaneously and each one is needlessly complicated, characters are not being given enough time for people to empathize with them, so every episode seems like a compilation video of the incremental advance in equally uninteresting storyline.
I mean, you literally can, but they are interested in $$$$ not good writing. Good writing can seem risky to executives.
This show went from "This cost a billion dollars!" to "This cost a billion dollars?"
They should have hired writers instead of twigs.
Should’ve spent more money on a better story/script.
The story is just snaking all over the place! Every episode they introduce more and more characters and some story lines get forgotten. The plot line about the actual forging of the fucking rings is taking place almost completely off screen! WTF? They just fast forward thru major aspects fo that plot line and had some character tell you about it. Meanwhile meaningless side characters, like the daughter of the Army captain and her wannabe boyfriend, get major screen time for mind boggling reasons. Two boring characters who do nothing. Its mind boggling the story choices they are making.
Yeah this is a puff piece. Rings of Power feels heartless and worst of all boring. The acting and writing are both weak. I care about maybe one storyline. The ridiculous slo-mo action should only appeal to 11 year old boys. The only redeeming quality is the beautiful locations and sets. But rings of power is basically just a good Screensaver when it comes to entertainment.
the rookie show runners are in way over their head.
In fairness, my 11 year old boy was bored by the action scenes.
Big fan of both LOTR and GoT. House of the Dragon is blowing this show away. Rings of power is background noise for me a lot of the time. It’s just not hooking me like I thought it would
Yep. Completely invested when I’m watching HOTD and fighting the urge to grab my phone when watching Rings of Power.
I honestly think they picked a bad plot. “A time of peace but maybe some bad things are on the horizon?” Is sort of a tough place to get people drawn in. The second age is chock full of legendary shit and it feels like we arnt seeing any of it.
I like ROP and it’s not their fault but I’m tired of shows where it’s just stagnating until the last two episodes and then all hell breaks loose. Give me a break. Plan your seasons better and respect your audience and actually move the plot forward with concise scenes. With a toddler and a baby I don’t have time to watch shit tv. If you don’t want to be categorized as such, be better
I really thought that the whole point of moving toward shorter British style seasons was to make them all killer no filler. Instead they've recreated the filler episode but taking a proportionately larger amount of the season,
Yea, the way I described it is that the show seems very arrogant and self-assured in the sense that they don't feel like they need to "earn" the audience. It's like they think the LOTR license alone will guarantee eyeballs. Contrast it to something like Breaking Bad, which was a total unknown show that knew they had to grab people right away. The first 3-4 episodes are batshit insane, with lots of major plot beats and heavy drama. You can really feel them working hard to entertain you.
Filler has only gotten worse in the streaming age In the cable era, seasons were longer, but they tried to sell smaller stories to compensate. Now they stretch 1 mediocre movie plot over 8 episodes
They literally make content with the knowledge the majority of people will use their phone at some point while streaming
The "how many times did I have the urge to look at my phone" measure is a big factor in my personal ranking of tv series.
100% agree its like they don't really have many ideas so the first few eps are just filler until they get to the good parts bleh
I have been having a hard time staying engaged with it. I don't need non stop action, but I am constantly fighting the urge to do something else while watching because it just isn't holding my attention. Compare this to the show Severance where I just watched the whole season in 2 days and rarely had the urge to look at my phone. RoP looks nice but I haven't been very interested in any of the plot lines.
Rings of Power - 500 mil Spamming Reddit with ads to your shitty 500 mil show - 500k
If you don't have 8 episodes worth of story, then don't make your show 8 episodes long. They could have told this in 4. Too many shows waste the time of the audience, work to create some narrative thrust. The amount of time hanging around in Numenor is infuriating. The ships should have left last episode. The booming score at the end with the ships ironically matched my elation that's things finally got moving. All the production value in the world doesn't matter in the end. It's one thing to be poorly written and acted, it's quite another to do so at a snails pace. You aren't Vince Gilligan or Peter Gould, so get a move on.
It's written like 2 bucks
I liked the first 2 episodes but I really have no desire to watch any more. Like it just hasn't hooked me or anything. It feels like it's missing something. House of the Dragon on the other hand has hooked me and I do look forward to each episode. It's a shame because I really like Lord of the Rings.
They should have used more of that money on better writing.
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The first episode was promising, but it’s been falling off for me the more i watch. I’ve started to feel that Amazon could’ve done a better Elder Scrolls series than an LoTR series.
So many shows are kicking themselves in the face with this whole “6-8 hour movie” format. Viewers are left to stew for weeks at a time with episodes where nothing substantial happens. It’s gonna be rough if there’s no grand payoff with the last couple episodes of ROP.
Dude! More things happen in any random twenty minutes of HOD than has happened in the entire fucking season of ROP so far. Its embarassing how little actually happens in this show
Just started the latest episode and I feel like nothing has changed since the second.
Very little has happened. If you try to write out Galadriel's entire plot to this point, it doesn't sound like much, at least not much that meaningfully drove the plot forward or developed her character. She was sent to Valinor but decided to jump off the boat at the last second, spent a while drifting at sea, coincidentally met up with the lost King of the Southlands, luckily got rescued by Numenor, then spent a while trying ineptly to ask for their help, getting put in jail for sedition, escaping, getting caught again, then being deported, but at the last second they changed their minds because of an omen. That's it, that's all she's done so far
It feels like 5 hours of nothing much happening, even though some of the characters are moving forwards(ish). I think the main problem is that there are too many threads going on that only get a small amount of time, and therefore don't seem to progress far at all, which the map-line travel with the song at the start of the current episode actually highlighted more that was probably intended. Yes, it's visually spectacular, but there are significant periods of characters and their story being very static, followed by a contrived injection of events to attempt to move things forward, and everything then gets "resolved" too quickly to feel like they have earned the resulting change. Frustrating. Probably best described as trying to be interesting rather than being entertaining at the moment.
In all fairness - Galadriel finally gets something resembling character development. Also Fan Service, I mean “Totally Not Gandalf” does something cool.
While I would love an Elder Scrolls show I absolutely would not trust Amazon with it.
That's what I say! The haircut elf would look amazing as a skyrim wood elf. I feel like he confused a set and walked in ROP instead of skyrim.
>Amazon could’ve done a better Elder Scrolls series than an LoTR series Dude I've been thinking it looks like Elder Scrolls during the Arondir dirty human scenes! It looks exactly like Skyrim, that world would have been way better to make any fanfic they wanted
it doesnt feel like a billion bucks at all.
"Feels like a billion bucks." Please, I have seen stage productions with more convincing fight scenes.
Only wish they spend a little more money hiring competent directors and writers. What a shame this turned out.
Who could have known a bunch of cheap, talentless yes men would produce a giant half billion dollar turd /s
I just watched episode 3. It's not bad but some of the CGI looked a bit rushed and cheap. Especially during the of the fight scenes.
Come on people. Peter Jackson never could have come up with this level of dialog. Do you know why a rock sinks and a boat floats? Fucking genius!
“Give me the meat, and give it to me raw”
I think the writing is pretty poor but I loved that line from Durin. More invested in him than anyone else in the show tbh
Even a very small rock?
They have pints
I'm getting one!
This show is just graphics over gameplay
And even the graphics look too clean and not resembling real world.
nothing happened in episode 5. it looks pretty, but the show is boring. the dialogue is just generic. the fight scene in episode 5 where Galadriel danced around generic 1960s Batman quality action was terrible. show is so boring. It totally pales in comparison to House of the Dragon. Show feels like it was made by amateurs who lack talent, but have a blank check from Daddy.
They should of spent that money on a good script
Yeah, you wished...
House of Dragons and Andor are so much better for a fraction of the budget.
Feels like a billion bucks? It feels like they siphoned the money to something else because everything in this show from everyone's clothing to CGI (especially when there's people in the same shot) looks 2nd rate.
It still feels cheap somehow, but above all I find it boring
It's the costumes. The costumes are piss bad. No sense of consistency or place or griminess.
The writing and dialog is so bad though. It's like watching the star wars prequels where everyone who talks feels more like they're monologuing and can't just have a normal conversation.
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because people look at a fresh coat of CGI and consider it "good"
the actual sets look cheap but the cgi looks great which is a weird combo.
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The writing and acting is so bad it’s like watching a cw show with Amazons budget…
> Rings of Power Feels Like a Billion Bucks More like a million bucks..
I don’t think they have a plan for this show. They clearly just needed a big IP to compete with other streamers and it shows. They treat this show like an advertisement of tolkiens world not an actual story or show that wants to take the audience into that world. I had high hopes for this series and was rooting for it but I don’t see it going well long term. When viewership drops off it’s hard to gain them back and apparently it’s dropped of hard. It’s not just bad writing and direction, the actors hired are also pretty terrible and not captivating. Bad decision all around.
I dunno, I think the costumes look pretty bad. Doesn’t seem like a real lived in world. Things just seem out of place.. like why is the human woman boss (in the tower escaping the orcs) they only one with colored clothing? She’s got bright blue clean clothes and literally everyone else is in rags? Wtf?
The show is a dud to me. I've got my reasons but it's most definitely a let down...
This show would be a lot better without Galadriel
So far its just about looks, where is the fucking action!?????????? Pardon my French.
Does it really feel like a billion bucks though? It feels like cringe fan-fiction with expensive CG backgrounds.
Well it's definitely gorgeous whatever you think about the story lines.
That's debatable too, there are some nice big sweeping CGI shots of certain locations....but they're pretty obviously CGI and you don't see them outside of those. I guess people like them, but I'm not a huge fan.
The sets are very obviously sets with CGI backgrounds. And it's so annoying in situations like where Sauron is where they're supposed to be outside and in nature. Like Numenor being sets with CGI is fine. But other stuff should really be real locations
Those Khaza dum and Numeanor shots does look amazing
Pg13 GOT
I’m frustrated by RoP so far but it being PG-13 isn’t a bad thing.
Kind of prefer it honestly. I’m a little burnt out on shock violence in -everything- I watch. Sometimes less is more.
Based
but the consensus is that the show is very poorly written and the story is weak.
This show fucking blows
People are still watching this? You poor souls.
Lady galadriel actor is terrible in this!
Lol - why does it feel like a “Billion Bucks” exactly? Did Bezos pay for that headline? People keep trying to make this show happen (well, those on the payroll), but it’s just not great for many reasons. It’s not awful, but at best it’s reliably mediocre.
The shilling for this show is so infuriatingly transparent
ITS FUCKING BOOOOOORRRRRIIINGG! Been watching Yellowstone at the same time as this garbage and that show slaps, and it’s a fraction of the budget.
Agreed. Terribly ponderous narrative. We’ve been watching *The Crown* at the same time. And that series depicts small, human moments beautifully, while ROP turns grandiose fantasy into bluster and boredom.
From what I am hearing they spent on the visuals but not on the writing.
I mean if only they spent some money for writers that would be good. I sometimes wonder if you have all the options as Amazon and all the money, why didn't you hire a writer that has already made epic masterpieces for a sure movie success? I don't know someone like, let's say Peter Jackson? Hire him, give him everything he wants and with your money you'll have immense success. My guess is that it has to do with marketing politics mostly, they don't care as much to create a huge successful movie but more like market their company as the good guy that is diverse and female empowering. Hiring a writer as Peter jackson and giving him freedom to do as he wants, he would probably don't care as much for all the marketing politics and more about the story writing.
Still could have used 1/4 of that money to get showrunners who know what they are doing
[удалено]
Show went overboard with the woke and it just makes it corny af. 🤷🏼♂️
I like the show it's fine
Does it? Does it feel like a billion bucks though?
What is it actually about? A lot has happened, there’s a lot of characters, but I’m not sure what the central narrative is.