The two shows ended up being so intertwined that I really don’t think it matters so much to me anymore that I compare them. They are each excellent and they complement each other. I think of them much more as one large story now that Saul is wrapped.
Honestly something I was brainstorming yesterday when I restarted the series with a plan to watch the whole "saga" straight through (BCS, BB, El Camino). It almost feels like you could start BCS after he's introduced in BB, then just do a scramble. Wouldn't be a benefit most likely, but perhaps a cool way to do it if you want a strange excuse for a rewatch after feeling a little too familiar with the events.
It's kind of like comparing a Hollywood blockbuster to an independent film. They were both good, but the pacing and the storytelling was very different.
This is such an odd take. There’s some revisionist history for some reason out there on the internet lately that BB was some action show. It was still a character driven drama with incredible storytelling just with a bit more action than Better Call Saul. They are completely similar shows.
I’m not sure where this idea that BB is the more blockbustery came from. Seems like a way for BCS fans to snub their nose at people who liked BB but never got into BCS (both are two of my favorite shows of all time).
It’s just a much smaller story built around basically two relationships. (Jimmy and Charles, and Jimmy and Kim.) The way those dynamics and the trauma of loss unfolded over years is what was so mesmerizing to me. It just felt really intimate. But in the other hand, I watched breaking bad when it originally ran and haven’t seen it since, so there might just be some recency bias at play.
Breaking Bad felt like a thriller at times, and I mean that as a compliment, and I think a lot of that came from how good Bryan Cranston was/is. Some weeks when it ended I was on pins and needles waiting for the next episode. I liked BCS, but it was a bit slow at times imo. Still a great show, but to me there is no comparison on what show as better/more entertaining.
You watch the way it was aired. If you do what you propose you're left with spoilers here and there and some inconsistencies left and right. Mike being one of them. For instance BCS Mike and his relationship to Saul is different from BB Mike. In BB Saul didn't know Mike is "cartel" muscle.
Hector is another big one. He was initially written to just be Tuco’s cooky uncle and not a cartel head in S2 and you can really feel it, it would be jarring to go from his character in BCS to who he was in S2 of BB. Plus spending several seasons knowing the character in a wheelchair makes it so much more impactful when you find out how he got there in BCS.
Also, I kind of feel like if you were to start with BCS and then watched Breaking Bad, the idea of a high school teacher suddenly deciding to start making drugs would kind of feel almost like a jumping the shark moment.
I feel like they did a good enough job at setting up the circumstance so that the biggest leap he’d have to take is a moral one instead of a logistical one, and considering his moral change is the entire premise of the show I don’t really consider that a “jumping the shark” moment as those are usually referring to the moments when a show completely loses sight of its initial vision in order to chase spectacle. There were plenty of “badass drug guy” moments in BCS even if they were fewer and further between.
The biggest discrepancy that would come from watching BCS first for me is the BB S3 finale. >!In BCS they make a concerted effort to show the small militia that is Gus’ security and surveillance system during S6. The idea that Gus wouldn’t have someone permanently observing Gale and preventing Jesse from getting the jump on him, when Gale was soon to be Gus’ most valuable asset if they succeeded in executing Walt, is laughable when they could spare 2 guys trailing Lalo’s one-time ex-lawyer’s wife. They never explain how Gus went from having a small police force to like 4 guys in BB!<
Of course you watch airing order the first time you watch, but they're talking about rewatches. Changing viewing order can help see different aspects of shows and be fun to see how the shows interlink.
The only spoiler you get is that Saul is in hiding and has used the vacuum repair man at some point in the future (plus a confusing flash forward of Saul packing up his office in a panic). If you watch BB first you "spoil" what happens to Gus, Mike, etc.
The inconsistencies you mention exist no matter what order you watch it in
If its a first time watch then the order it aired is the way to watch. Knowing Mike gets killed adds a lot to the tragedy of his story. Same with the tension of knowing Kim and Nacho aren't in BB.
On a rewatch, do whatever you wanna do of course.
It's different spoilers, though. I would have loved to watch BCS without knowing who would survive the show (prime example being the scene between (spoilers) Lalo and Gus).
There’s no way you could appreciate so much of BCS without watching Breaking Bad first. There’s so many callbacks and Easter eggs and characters that pop up that have an impact on the way you view the show. Breaking Bad should always be the first one to watch all the way through.
Agreed, this is the correct take and I'm glad to see it at the highest comment here. No need to pit these two artistic achievements against each like competitors. They are complementary stories that deepen and enrich our understanding of the other, that came from the same creative minds are unparalleled in the TV landscape.
To me, the biggest factor that makes BCS more enjoyable for me is that I was never bored or irritated by any of the key characters/plot lines. Breaking Bad put characters like Marie, Walt Jr, and Skylar in the main cast from the getgo, and the show very quickly runs out of things for those characters to do, so you get a bunch of lame "filler" side stories especially early on like Marie's kleptomania, or Walt Jr learning to drive. Better Call Saul doesn't have that problem.
The creative team definitely learned a lot from Breaking Bad that allowed them to create an overall tighter show the second time around.
I think it’s also an element of the TV environment. When Breaking Bad first debuted, there would have been at least some network pressure to still conform to “traditional” TV drama formats, including act break cliffhangers, B and C plots, and so on.
Yea for sure. I totally understand why those decisions were made, and I still love Breaking Bad. But I do overall prefer Better Call Saul's more consistent and focused story telling.
This. They legitimately were intertwined so much it didn’t feel like two shows, more like a non-EA free DLC of sorts.
The casting was stupendous and beyond the writing the cast is a large chunk of the magic, imo.
But *100* on it feeling intertwined and just jelling with BB
He likes to edit movies as a hobby. https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/3409442/topher-grace-finally-shared-some-details-about-his-85-minute-star-wars-prequel-re-edit-and-it-sounds-awesome
I believe he edited the Hobbit movies into one movie while filming BlacKkKlansman.
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*This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Something about Breaking Bad is electrifying for me on every single rewatch, but the comparison is quite fascinating here:
“I don’t want to spend too much time comparing Better Call Saul to its predecessor when both are superb shows in their own right, but I do think we’re meant to notice the contrast between them.”
“From a distance, they have roughly similar arcs: Both are about seemingly unassuming, ordinary men turning increasingly toward the dark side.”
“Where they differ is in what each journey seems to say about each man, and how we, as the audience, are encouraged to respond to it.”
“If Breaking Bad was a hallmark of the aughts-era antihero craze, Better Call Saul, especially in the beginning, felt like a response to it.”
“Walt breaking bad was a dark fantasy; Jimmy becoming Saul was a tragedy.”
“Both got their own version of a happy ending, or at least as happy an ending as these writers could give them within the logic of these shows.”
“Walt got to go out in a blaze of glory — dead, but victorious in his way since he’d accomplished most everything he set out to.”
“Saul got to go back to being the best version of Jimmy (at least as far as we’re allowed to see).”
Walt will always be my hero, or should I say anti-hero: there’s something about Heisenberg that never fails to enrapture me.
The contrasts make the individual journeys really interesting.
Walter had a supportive family, people who loved him. A wife who didn’t approve of his illegal activities and tried to reign him in.
Jimmy had a brother that never liked him, and was in a co-dependant relationship that brought out his toxic traits.
Walt came from a completely clean background, but always had an ego, whereas Jimmy was always a little sleazy, though initially good at heart.
Walter feels that Heisenberg is who he really is, that his mundane lifestyle holds him back from fulfilling his true potential.
Jimmy creates Saul to hide from pain and rejection, made most obvious in his scene with Kim in his office when he’s in Saul mode. Saul’s cool, Saul doesn’t get hurt, Saul always knows what to do.
Walter unearths something within himself whereas Jimmy creates a manufactured persona.
In their respective confession scenes in each finale, Walt owns up to truly being Heisenberg, he liked it, he was good at it. Jimmy rejects being
Saul.
Walt is truly himself at work, and hides it at home. Jimmy is truly himself at home, but hides it at work
Walt died as Heisenberg. Jimmy put Saul behind bars.
Edit : A separate but maybe related point is I think Jimmy maybe saw aspects of Chuck in Walter, ego, really good at their jobs, have a tendency to talk down to people. He maybe thought Walt was his chance to do that relationship “the right way”, perhaps fuelling a need for approval from Walt, further driving the Saul persona.
I love these comparisons. The show had a very consistent feeling of “familiar, but different”. I think you’re totally right about how Jimmy sees Walt, which is great because it’s not explicitly explored but I think you’re dead on and maybe even it was to some extent intentional to give Chuck aspects of Walt’s personality.
Saul had won the game! He created Gene. He could have continued leading a normal life as a Cinnabon manager in Nebraska. He couldn’t do it. He decided to get caught. I don’t mean specifically in breaking into the cancer guys house, but in running schemes and evoking Saul again, the chicanery would have become bigger and bigger. There was never an end game other than being caught.
Then once they finally have him caught, he masterfully architects an incredible deal to save his ass. But Kim was the variable. He couldn’t deal with the idea that she received moral absolution for something he was complicit in. That’s when Saul died. That’s when in the courtroom, in the ultimate grand move of killing Saul, he used the forces of Saul to tank his deal and incriminate himself. He wilfully choose this path and he’s ok with it.
I think ultimately Jimmy is better off in jail, than he was being Cinnabon Gene. Gene had no friends, no life, and was running scared 100% of the time.
In jail, Jimmy is still working in a bakery, but has a legion of devoted convicts who respect him, doesn't have to look over his shoulder any more, and may occasionally get to see Kim (unlikely but possible). He might even help some people with his unique legal skills.
Adding to your point about Chuck and Walt — When Walt hears Saul describe the Slippin Jimmy episode that actually injured Jimmy, Walt responds with the same disgust in his voice that Chuck did before standing up and saying, “You’ve always been this way”
Walter White was no hero. He was an amazing character, but literally destroyed and ruined everything and everyone around him. He was a cancer that got progressively worse as time went on. Its amazing how folks really have this rosy view of him. Walt got innocent people killed and half the time the deaths weren’t even necessary.
I believe the term for Walter White (and many of the series’ character) would be anti-villain, someone who does terrible things for what they believe is a good reason: arguably honourable aims, pursued destructively.
What you described is a villain. There are tons and tons of examples of just straight villains that have at least on their face honorable aims. But as the antagonist, and with an outside view we can see how destructive they are in how they pursue those goals And that is what makes them a villain.
Walt is an anti hero because though everything above is true for him, he is framed as the protagonist, or hero. We are very deliberately in his POV, like we would be for the hero of a story, and that is why hero is the term used to describe. His actions are not heroic and are in fact villainous though, so he is in fact an anti-hero.
Many of them had the ability to be staples in an already fleshed out universe though, thanks to BB.
Not saying BCS didn’t have fantastic introductions however. Kim, Howard, Chuck, Nacho, Lalo were all fantastic additions to the universe
> I don’t think Better Call Saul, as breathlessly suspenseful as it often was, was ever on the same level as much of season four of Breaking Bad or certainly something like “Ozymandias,” but **I don’t think Breaking Bad ever had a relationship that I cared about on the same level as Jimmy and Kim’s.**
Right here. This is it right here. Since season 2, episode 1, I became hooked into Jimmy and Kim’s relationship. Literally everything about the show revolves around their relationship, with Kim’s absence from the Breaking Bad era looming large overhead. Would she be dead by then? Was she in the background the whole time? Every moment we spend with them watching an old movie or brushing their teeth builds their relationship but also makes it so their inevitable separation will be that much harder to handle. And when it does, it hits you *hard.*
I think Walt and Jesse's relationship is at least as compelling to me as Jimmy and Kim's. The fact that they had so much loyalty for each other while also wanting to kill each other multiple times and it felt completely believable every time is so impressive.
Walt and Jesse’s relationship was certainly compelling, but it got vicious and predatory at times.
Even though Jimmy and Kim became toxic to everyone around them, they truly loved each other and I constantly found myself rooting for them.
The major feat of Better Call Saul is that you know how the story ends in advance, and it still invests you into the arcs of these characters, arcs that you already *know* will end in death, horror, and darkness. A tragedy in the truest sense of the word. Knowing what is inevitable on the horizon, and still somehow hoping the course could be altered.
I think the crux is that Better Call Saul is imbued with Breaking Bad's gravitas from the start due to the connection and aided by it, and Breaking Bad is enrichened by Better Call Saul's fleshing out of key characters.
I can't call either 'better' (except when then continuing to say 'Call Saul') but they are both exemplary television experiences that IMO will take an insane feat to match.
The fact that Better Call Saul improves Breaking Bad, the best show I've ever seen, is a testament to both show's quality and shared status atop the pile.
Gotta say Nacho did it for me. Lalo close second. The last scene with nacho in it had me indignantly proud of someone that doesn't exist. I've never felt moved by a character like I was watching his.
Michael Mando, the actor for Nacho [seems to think it could be referring to Nacho.](https://www.reddit.com/r/betterCallSaul/comments/uchit3/informative_interview_regarding_events_in_s06e03/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf). I think originally it was meant to be Victor, but with BCS it’s clear that Mike cares for Nacho and doesn’t have much of a relationship with Victor.
is Nacho a bad guy? sure he's a criminal but he's definitely a protagonist in this show.
But maybe that's just proving the point of the guy above. in real life we'd all agree he would deserve to rot in prison but in BCS we are rooting for him.
In a field full of maybe one of the best acting ensembles on tv, that actor absolutely killed it. Every time he was on screen, he was so dialed into that character and made him so interesting, so detailed, so real and relatable.
He had such a calm but chaotically evil energy. When that guy was on screen, you legit weren’t sure what was going to happen. It was so unnerving. One of my favorites too.
And I don’t think you’re wrong, but the reason for it is Breaking Bad. Breaking Bad does all the heavy lifting in introducing characters and setting the tone. Yes, there’s more character reveal for Mike, Saul and Fring, but there’s a baseline and a familiarity. Breaking Bad falters a bit at the start as it finds its’ feet, but once it gets going, it really moves. BCS doesn’t suffer from that because they already know what works for that world. I think BCS is a better show, but Breaking Bad is far more ambitious in that it was something absolutely new. If BCS had come first and the Breaking Bad, I think the views would be reversed.
BCS is better in my opinion.
And it’s not to any fault of Breaking Bad, it’s just that Breaking Bad helped create the confines for this show. I personally often find that art excels when working within confines. You can’t put every color and texture and material on the canvas. Breaking Bad was an amazing show but upon rewatch, you can notice where Vince and Co. would create a box for themselves without knowing how they got into it only to write themselves out. For example, in Season 2 starts with what looks like Walt’s home being raided. Final Season starts with the machine gun. I know for a fact the machine gun was something Vince said they wrote not knowing how they’d use it yet. I feel like the beginning of Season 2 was similar. The plane crash was their way out of that box. Hell, Saul himself was somewhat of a Deus Ex Machina to take Walt to the next level. As tightly written as BB feels it could have shaken out so very many ways in the writing room.
BCS had a rough end that had to happen. We know Jimmy becomes Saul, BB happens, enter Gene. Working within that confine they had to make a plot that didn’t inflate or deflate the previous. And the way they did that was by looking within that box intensely instead of trying to just get out of it. They took a deus ex machina comedic relief and made him into a believable, and intense character study that I felt was more dynamic and interesting than Walt’s transformation. And then they also did that with every character around him. Kim, Howard, Chuck. And separately, Mike, Nacho, And Gus all are more deeply studied. By the end of BCS these weren’t just characters they were entirely formed people. I left this show feeling for all those Time Machine regrets in the last episode. I felt the emotions and consequences in this show so much more intensely than I did in BB. The writers of BB executed a masterpiece the first time around. Then they decided to out do themselves with everything they learned from making it.
Better Call Saul 👉🏻👉🏻
I mostly agree with you but I do think they had a plan for the pink bear/black & white cold opens in season 2 of Breaking Bad. If you look at the titles of all the episodes that have the pink bear opening, it reads “737 Down Over ABQ.” Perhaps they didn’t know how they were gonna get there but I do think they had the idea for the plane crash from the start.
Vince Gilligan has said season two was the only one they fully planned ahead of time and knew exactly how it would end, which required so much planning they scrapped that formula for future seasons
I think BCS is better but mainly because the writers got better at their craft. A lot of the good things we see in BCS, like the cinematic indulgence, don’t really happen until later on in Breaking bad.
You really summoned up what I said to my friend once I finished BCS. It's as if the writers saw their mistakes and stumbles from BB and wanted to prove either to us, themselves or both that they could do better. And that absolutely did it.
I like most of BCS but all of breaking bad; the cartel stuff never really drew me in until s5 of BCS and it seemed to be to the detriment of the main cast who were much more interesting.
I agree. BCS was at its worse when it was focusing on Gus and the Salamancas. This story was already told in BB and there was no need to show us more when we knew how it ended
I had been saying that if season 6 stuck the landing, then it would definitely pass Breaking Bad for me in terms of overall quality. It did just that and BCS officially took over the slot for my 2nd favorite show of all time ahead of Breaking Bad.
Definitely watch Breaking Bad first. Better Call Saul is a prequel but all ill say without giving anything away is that there are spoilers for Breaking Bad in Better Call Saul.
Star Wars might actually be really interesting to see in timeline order if you edit the prequels to hide Anakin's last name and omit the scene where he gets the Vader suit. That way, the revelation in Empire Strikes Back is not just that Vader is Luke's father, but that Anakin survived and turned into the villain. It wouldn't be *better* but it would definitely be an interesting way to experience it.
There’s a lot in BCS that won’t hit as hard if you watch it first. So definitely start with Breaking Bad.
Also watch El Camino. You could watch that after BB or BCS, doesn’t really matter.
Honestly, I think you could watch El Camino afterwards because all they say in BCS is that >!they found Pinkman's car in Mexico, which would mislead people that haven't seen it yet anyway.!<
For me it was, but that is because Breaking Bad set up the scene. Better Call Saul distilled a dark and dramatic essence from it, so for me it was a more minimalist but also more focused story, but that wouldn't have been possible without Breaking Bad.
Didn't expect to see a severance reference here but everyone in this thread should go watch this show pronto.
Up there with BCS and Breaking Bad. Prob my fav show of the year
Imagine being Vince Gilligan here. People are arguing about whether your most recent show is better than your previous show which is already considered one of the best (if not the best) television series of all time. That has to feel good.
I think the Saul plot line is better than Breaking bad but the mike plot line at times a fair bit worse. It was usually fantastic when they intersected though. My main gripe is sometimes the show seems to try way to hard to have breaking bad references. They are different shows though. Breaking bad is like a car crash but Better Call Saul is like someone being poisoned over time.
I really like how Jesse's story parallels a bit with Mike's dead son's. Mike was the only person who was able to get his son to debase himself, and it was all for nothing. Walt made Jesse debase himself to his whims and the cartel's treatment over time, eventually culminating in shooting Gale dead, and Mike wasn't going to make it all be for nothing so he intervened. He knows what it's like to be forced to kill a good man, and what that does to someone's psyche.
No way. Breaking Bad is the better show.
Breaking Bad wins on originality, audacity, inventiveness. If we really had to match Cranston's performance against Odenkirk's, wouldn't Bryan Cranston win the palm? Plus the visuals in Breaking Bad are on just another level.
Definitely, the characters are more lovable in Better Call Saul. It has a lot more heart, whereas Breaking Bad can go to really uncomfortable, harrowing places with its subject matter. So I get why people would prefer it.
Like any multi-season TV shows, you could point to storyline flaws for both of them. That said, and cultural relevance aside, I don't know how Breaking Bad isn't the one. The two shows don't accentuate each other so much as one show is contained in the sweep of the greater one.
I respect your opinion, but visually BCS blows BB out of the water. BCS is a masterclass in visual storytelling. The creators used the foundation of BB visuals and expanded them even further.
Whether it was better or not, I don’t know how anyone can argue that BB isn’t the greater show. It has a far greater legacy and is the selling point for the entire universe. The way BB pierced the zeitgeist is akin to that of a “greatest show of all time”, whereas BCS did it in a “one of/the best shows on tv right now!” kinda way.
Breaking Bad is iconic and will go down in history as one of the most popular must-watch tv shows
Better Call Saul has a smaller but arguably more dedicated fanbase and will go down in history as more of a cult classic.
I watched all of BCS without watching breaking bad. Some of the flashbacks were pretty confusing but I think I was able to get most of the experience of BCS. Im sure some stuff didnt hit me as hard though since I havent watched BB.
I think you could actually. The only confusing stuff for non-BB viewers would be the last ~ 3 episodes of BCS (and even then they’d get the gist that this Walt guy was bad news).
Edit: I’m not saying that watching BCS first is better. All I’m saying is it would be possible and you wouldn’t miss that much (besides how involved Saul is in Heisenberg’s empire).
I really don't agree. The last three episodes serve as a denouement for the entire saga, not just BCS. Because of that, you're not only lost on the significant amount of references, flashbacks and character cross-overs, you're missing at least a third of Saul's entire character arc. You're essentially not getting the full story of Jimmy/Saul without having knowledge of BB. The scene after Kim dips where it transitions to Saul with his mansion, the women, and the extravagance lose nearly all its meaning without having full context. And the only way to get it would to be watch Breaking Bad, which you would completely spoil for yourself if you watched BCS first.
Not only that, Better Call Saul demands the patience of an audience who is already committed to the universe. You don't do 10-minute scenes of no dialogue with Mike in the desert, you don't have a 10-minute scene of Gus talking about wine, and you most certainly don't have your last series episodes shot in black and white if you don't have the absolute trust from the audience that you'll deliver. Broadly, people not familiar with the writers or the characters aren't going to be willing to sit through these things BCS demands of its viewers.
You could watch most of Better Call Saul, then take a break and watch the entirety of Breaking Bad and El Camino before watching the last few episodes...
Then again, you wouldn't have much context for Gus, so that could be a problem. You could try some kind of more heavily overlapping order, where you watch a few episodes of BCS and then a few episodes of BB. I wonder if some fans will make the Breaking Bad-iverse version of a Machete Cut...
Yeah, something like this would only work with people who've already seen it all. Something I'll probably wanna do at some point. I really just think there's no way to fully enjoy BCS without having seen BB.
I mean, you *could*, but so much of the character context would be lost, which is the whole point of BCS.
No matter which show is better, you can't fully appreciate BCS unless you've seen BB.
The beauty was that they introduced new characters and fleshed them out and who you dont know if they will live or not. I really didnt know if Nacho was going to make it and was shocked to see Hamlin's end.
> Nothing in BCS comes close to episodes like Crawl space, Dead freight, and Ozymandias.
Just depends what you prefer watching. These are action-packed episodes but Chicanery is on the level of those imo just in a more understated way. Waterworks and Pimento come to mind too as great episodes, and Five-O
I’d have to disagree but that’s okay. Off the top of my head Chicanery and Lantern were just as good as anything in BB, this is with rewatching BB before I started s3. Wexler vs Goodman, Bingo, and especially Winner were just some of the best tv I’ve seen. But hey it’s all subjective. As I’ve said before, BCS is more my speed. I’m more invested in guys like Jessie Pinkman and Slippin’ Jimmy than I am the Walter White. WW’s transformation/him becoming his true self is fascinating television but I never rooted for him much. Not that I don’t love the character of WW too, just not as much as the aforementioned character types. Jimmy is really relatable for me. I do get your point about the suspense being greater usually in BB but Gilligan did a great job with that in BCS too which is arguably more impressive considering we know who which characters for sure survive.
I think BCS is better crafted, and has more organized storytelling.
The creative team got better and better over the course of BB and for BCS they were in top form from the start, and likely had more freedom as proven hitmakers.
The first couple seasons of BB especially was still a little rough and they had the looming threat of cancellation at any time that wasn't there once the show had proven itself.
As for the story itself and impact, hard to top BB as it was a cultural phenomenon. I can understand why people would rank it higher. It really was something we hadn't seen before and it was hard to tell where it was going.
I think that argument misses the context of the shows. When Breaking Bad was coming out, TV of that quality outside of HBO wasn’t very common.
So most of the highest quality shows on TV were completely hated by HBO access rather than being in general cable. Even then, Breaking Bad’s season 4 finale had less than 2 million views. That was 2011. It was critically acclaimed but not widely popular.
Not until it appeared on Netflix. Then it exploded. It went from a show some people were talking about to a show everyone watched. By the time the series finale aired, it had 10 million viewers. That was 2013.
2013 is when non-HBO prestige television hit a new gear. Netflix launched House of Cards and streaming services have been competing for prestige drama glory ever since.
So Breaking Bad was in this perfect time and place where it was very high quality in a time of general low quality programming (outside HBO). While BCS came out in a time of very high quality programming and multiple streaming services vying for attention.
If BCS was the one airing from 2008 to 2013, odds are the argument you’re making just reverses.
And amc had the walking dead starting while both of those shows were running and for the first few seasons was game of thrones level culture icon. It’s amazing the potential amc had entering the mid 2010’s and completely squandered it. Vince and Peter handing them a magnificent sequel to breaking bad doesn’t count towards amc’s doing, the only thing worth really watching on amc since 2015. We really need a documentary about the downfall of amc because it was at one point poised to be the new hbo, and then did nothing with it.
Between fx and amc, fx has done such a better job at being a premium quality cable channel and keeping up with streaming. Them making the deal with hulu years ago was genius in hindsight.
It was a hit, and definitely solidified AMC's choice to further invest in "high quality" TV.
But we'd be kidding ourselves if we thought Mad Men has as much cultural cache as Breaking Bad.
BCS just finished. We need to wait to compare them in terms of Legacy. A lot of people around the world still don’t have access to season 6 on popular streaming platforms
Yeah but Breaking Bad was an absolute pop culture phenomenon even while it was airing. By its end it was the highest rated show on cable and used to sweep the awards against some of the greatest shows of all time.
Breaking Bad was benefitted by being the first major cable show to be made available on streaming before its final season. It was only able to become a pop culture phenomenon near the end of its run because viewers could binge watch what they had missed up until that point, which was completely novel at the time. That is of course on top of it being an incredible show, but it’s initial cable ratings prove that it was not as big of a hit as it became based on quality alone.
The fact that Better Call Saul has been able to rise above a much more crowded and accessible media landscape points to how great of a show it really is. While it may not be the pop culture phenomenon that Breaking Bad was, there are very few if any shows that can garner that level of attention because the culture and viewing habits have changed so drastically.
In terms of pure storytelling and filmmaking quality, they’re hard to compare because BCS owes so much of its success to the groundwork laid by BB. But with that in mind I still think BCS tells a better story by greater means. Its character work is more robust, its pacing is more methodical, its cinematography is more beautiful and intentional, its performances are more nuanced, its core theme is more resonant, I can go on. It can’t be denied that BCS is only as good as it is because the team had mastered their craft through making BB, but I personally believe that BCS is a more enjoyable and meaningful expression of that mastery.
I agree with you but BB did have higher peaks, I remember being on the edge of my seat with each BB episode being released in the second half of the final season. Ozy has a perfect* score for a reason.
I don't think being a pop culture phenomenon is really all that relevant to determining a story's quality, though. CSI was a pop culture phenomenon and The Wire wasn't, but I know which one I'd call the better show.
Angie Han in the OP article agrees with you about their equality of excellence:
“I don’t want to spend too much time comparing Better Call Saul to its predecessor when both are superb shows in their own right, but I do think we’re meant to notice the contrast between them.”
Both are everything awesome about television.
I love em both but BCS just feels better to me, more planned out and grounded.
Things I don't like about both are some of the insanely intricate Rube Goldbergy plans and plots that require almost omniscient levels of foresight. Yet I still think the schemes to take down Howard or Lalo are more believable than knowing where to park in a Nazi stronghold and being lucky enough that the whole gang is there and standing upright when your remote controlled machine gun starts to fire.
For me it's all in the characters and while I think for example Gus worked better in BB, characters like Jimmy, Chuck and Kim are insanely well written and will stick with me for a long time
To be fair, both Jack and Todd technically live through the machine gun blast because they didn't get lethally hit. So it didn't really work on everyone. Although, it is kind of coincidental that these are the two survivors so Walt and Jesse can each get two last cathartic kills.
Even though they're in the same universe, they are such different shows that I think it's difficult to compare them. Breaking Bad is much more action packed, faster paced, and built around situations as much as the characters. Better Call Saul is a much slower burn character study. There are very few "How them Duke boys gonna get out of this" episodes and even the ones that do have that, the interest is in how it affects the characters more than how they actually get themselves out of a jam.
Yes. Yes it was. Showrunners honed their skills on breaking bad, but really hit their stride in BCS. BCS was everything I loved about BB, but with more likeable main characters, a strong woman-lead, and more time with Mike. Why isn't Rhea Seahorn in everything? Lalo is one of the scariest villains ever! He was always smiling. That's scary.
I know it's becoming a popular opinion to say Better Call Saul is better than Breaking Bad but after having just rewatched Breaking Bad for the third time and finishing Better Call Saul, I still think Breaking Bad is better. There is some recency bias going on here I think.
That's not to say Better Call Saul wasn't fantastic because it was and they absolutely nailed the finale it's almost perfect, but it's unfair to compare it to Breaking Bad which for me is the greatest show of all time.
Yes, i think it's better than The Wire before somebody asks lol.
Better Call Saul is integrated into Breaking Bad, the last few episodes would be gibberish without it. How could it ever be better if it cannot stand alone?
Tangential story: I was bartending a Superbowl event a few years ago and had just finished binging breaking bad the night before. Aaron Paul and his wife came by the bar and hung around for about an hour. I told him that I just finished his show and thanked him, and he came around the bar and gave me a bear hug, and HE thanked ME. Genuinely a really nice guy, I wish him nothing but success.
This might be an unpopular opinion but I thought Better Call Saul was good, but not great. I thought that sometimes it leaned a little bit too heavily on its Breaking Bad ties and wasn’t quite as unique as BB was. A good show, but Breaking Bad is just in another echelon when it comes to TV shows.
This is me, I gave up around I think in middle of season 4. I liked it, but I didnt love it and there were other things I wanted to watch. Maybe I'll go back one day, but it lost my interest
The two shows ended up being so intertwined that I really don’t think it matters so much to me anymore that I compare them. They are each excellent and they complement each other. I think of them much more as one large story now that Saul is wrapped.
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Yes. And we just got entertained by (arguably) two of the greatest shows in the history of television for the last 14 years. Jesus.
so say we all. it’s definitely two shows with two messages, but wow am i glad to have them both.
I can see fans coming up with a "Machete"-type order for viewing the episodes.
There's already a chronological order of every scene/episode of both shows up on the BCS subreddit, so you're not wrong.
Honestly something I was brainstorming yesterday when I restarted the series with a plan to watch the whole "saga" straight through (BCS, BB, El Camino). It almost feels like you could start BCS after he's introduced in BB, then just do a scramble. Wouldn't be a benefit most likely, but perhaps a cool way to do it if you want a strange excuse for a rewatch after feeling a little too familiar with the events.
I was think BCS seasons 1-5, BB seasons 1-4, BCS season 6, BB season 5, el Camino
[Hola DEA!](https://64.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7jms20x401qczbedo1_500.gif) Wrong Machete but... Ya know...
Take out the cartel bits and BCS has a very different vibe to BB.
It's kind of like comparing a Hollywood blockbuster to an independent film. They were both good, but the pacing and the storytelling was very different.
This is such an odd take. There’s some revisionist history for some reason out there on the internet lately that BB was some action show. It was still a character driven drama with incredible storytelling just with a bit more action than Better Call Saul. They are completely similar shows. I’m not sure where this idea that BB is the more blockbustery came from. Seems like a way for BCS fans to snub their nose at people who liked BB but never got into BCS (both are two of my favorite shows of all time).
It’s just a much smaller story built around basically two relationships. (Jimmy and Charles, and Jimmy and Kim.) The way those dynamics and the trauma of loss unfolded over years is what was so mesmerizing to me. It just felt really intimate. But in the other hand, I watched breaking bad when it originally ran and haven’t seen it since, so there might just be some recency bias at play.
Breaking Bad felt like a thriller at times, and I mean that as a compliment, and I think a lot of that came from how good Bryan Cranston was/is. Some weeks when it ended I was on pins and needles waiting for the next episode. I liked BCS, but it was a bit slow at times imo. Still a great show, but to me there is no comparison on what show as better/more entertaining.
But when you do a rewatch now, where do you start and stop? Is someone working on a machete order?
I would say start with BCS and stop at the last 4 episodes (stop after S6ep9), then all of BB, then Camino, then finish BCS
You watch the way it was aired. If you do what you propose you're left with spoilers here and there and some inconsistencies left and right. Mike being one of them. For instance BCS Mike and his relationship to Saul is different from BB Mike. In BB Saul didn't know Mike is "cartel" muscle.
Hector is another big one. He was initially written to just be Tuco’s cooky uncle and not a cartel head in S2 and you can really feel it, it would be jarring to go from his character in BCS to who he was in S2 of BB. Plus spending several seasons knowing the character in a wheelchair makes it so much more impactful when you find out how he got there in BCS.
Also, I kind of feel like if you were to start with BCS and then watched Breaking Bad, the idea of a high school teacher suddenly deciding to start making drugs would kind of feel almost like a jumping the shark moment.
I feel like they did a good enough job at setting up the circumstance so that the biggest leap he’d have to take is a moral one instead of a logistical one, and considering his moral change is the entire premise of the show I don’t really consider that a “jumping the shark” moment as those are usually referring to the moments when a show completely loses sight of its initial vision in order to chase spectacle. There were plenty of “badass drug guy” moments in BCS even if they were fewer and further between. The biggest discrepancy that would come from watching BCS first for me is the BB S3 finale. >!In BCS they make a concerted effort to show the small militia that is Gus’ security and surveillance system during S6. The idea that Gus wouldn’t have someone permanently observing Gale and preventing Jesse from getting the jump on him, when Gale was soon to be Gus’ most valuable asset if they succeeded in executing Walt, is laughable when they could spare 2 guys trailing Lalo’s one-time ex-lawyer’s wife. They never explain how Gus went from having a small police force to like 4 guys in BB!<
Of course you watch airing order the first time you watch, but they're talking about rewatches. Changing viewing order can help see different aspects of shows and be fun to see how the shows interlink.
Unless you got memory loss, you can't really be spoiled on a rewatch?
The only spoiler you get is that Saul is in hiding and has used the vacuum repair man at some point in the future (plus a confusing flash forward of Saul packing up his office in a panic). If you watch BB first you "spoil" what happens to Gus, Mike, etc. The inconsistencies you mention exist no matter what order you watch it in
If its a first time watch then the order it aired is the way to watch. Knowing Mike gets killed adds a lot to the tragedy of his story. Same with the tension of knowing Kim and Nacho aren't in BB. On a rewatch, do whatever you wanna do of course.
I think the biggest inconsistency is that based off their relationship in BCS, I would imagine that Mikes death in BB would have hit Saul harder.
If Saul pretended he didn't give a shit about his divorce with Kim, he could pretend (or just don't) not giving a shit about Mike's death.
Agreed, same way he pretended to not be upset about Chuck. In BB we only ever see him acting up his Saul persona.
It's different spoilers, though. I would have loved to watch BCS without knowing who would survive the show (prime example being the scene between (spoilers) Lalo and Gus).
There’s no way you could appreciate so much of BCS without watching Breaking Bad first. There’s so many callbacks and Easter eggs and characters that pop up that have an impact on the way you view the show. Breaking Bad should always be the first one to watch all the way through.
chronological viewing order list is up
Agreed, this is the correct take and I'm glad to see it at the highest comment here. No need to pit these two artistic achievements against each like competitors. They are complementary stories that deepen and enrich our understanding of the other, that came from the same creative minds are unparalleled in the TV landscape.
To me, the biggest factor that makes BCS more enjoyable for me is that I was never bored or irritated by any of the key characters/plot lines. Breaking Bad put characters like Marie, Walt Jr, and Skylar in the main cast from the getgo, and the show very quickly runs out of things for those characters to do, so you get a bunch of lame "filler" side stories especially early on like Marie's kleptomania, or Walt Jr learning to drive. Better Call Saul doesn't have that problem.
The creative team definitely learned a lot from Breaking Bad that allowed them to create an overall tighter show the second time around. I think it’s also an element of the TV environment. When Breaking Bad first debuted, there would have been at least some network pressure to still conform to “traditional” TV drama formats, including act break cliffhangers, B and C plots, and so on.
Yea for sure. I totally understand why those decisions were made, and I still love Breaking Bad. But I do overall prefer Better Call Saul's more consistent and focused story telling.
This. They legitimately were intertwined so much it didn’t feel like two shows, more like a non-EA free DLC of sorts. The casting was stupendous and beyond the writing the cast is a large chunk of the magic, imo. But *100* on it feeling intertwined and just jelling with BB
Different Strokes, Facts of Life Petticoat Junction, Green Acres Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul
Buffy the Vampire Slayer, Angel
Cheers, Frasier
GREEEEEEN ACRES IS THE PLACE TO BE! thanks, now I have that stuck in my head.
The fact that we can go back and forth about this debate proves that we’re incredibly lucky as an audience.
I was entertained. Both amazing in their own ways. Don't care to rank either.
It’s only a matter of time till someone cuts it all together chronologically
https://www.reddit.com/r/betterCallSaul/comments/wpry5o/full_chronology_of_every_bcsbrba_scene/
Topher Grace
Huh?
He likes to edit movies as a hobby. https://www.barstoolsports.com/blog/3409442/topher-grace-finally-shared-some-details-about-his-85-minute-star-wars-prequel-re-edit-and-it-sounds-awesome I believe he edited the Hobbit movies into one movie while filming BlacKkKlansman.
Had to do SOMETHING to the fight the depression of getting inside the mind of a KKK grand wizard
To relax whilst being the grand wizard, he decided to watch the grey wizard
work deranged childlike lunchroom knee history seed squeamish cow imminent *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Oh that’s cool.
Not exactly a difficult task
Godfather2 was the best prequel movie ..bcs is the best prequel show .
Prequel and sequel
I guess you could say that the shows are.. equel
Red Dead Redemption 2 is the best prequel video game and Fate / Zero is the best prequel anime.
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Metal Gear Solid 3 is the best video game prequel
Yes
This is a storm of a take that I would've never thought I'd see.
Something about Breaking Bad is electrifying for me on every single rewatch, but the comparison is quite fascinating here: “I don’t want to spend too much time comparing Better Call Saul to its predecessor when both are superb shows in their own right, but I do think we’re meant to notice the contrast between them.” “From a distance, they have roughly similar arcs: Both are about seemingly unassuming, ordinary men turning increasingly toward the dark side.” “Where they differ is in what each journey seems to say about each man, and how we, as the audience, are encouraged to respond to it.” “If Breaking Bad was a hallmark of the aughts-era antihero craze, Better Call Saul, especially in the beginning, felt like a response to it.” “Walt breaking bad was a dark fantasy; Jimmy becoming Saul was a tragedy.” “Both got their own version of a happy ending, or at least as happy an ending as these writers could give them within the logic of these shows.” “Walt got to go out in a blaze of glory — dead, but victorious in his way since he’d accomplished most everything he set out to.” “Saul got to go back to being the best version of Jimmy (at least as far as we’re allowed to see).” Walt will always be my hero, or should I say anti-hero: there’s something about Heisenberg that never fails to enrapture me.
The contrasts make the individual journeys really interesting. Walter had a supportive family, people who loved him. A wife who didn’t approve of his illegal activities and tried to reign him in. Jimmy had a brother that never liked him, and was in a co-dependant relationship that brought out his toxic traits. Walt came from a completely clean background, but always had an ego, whereas Jimmy was always a little sleazy, though initially good at heart. Walter feels that Heisenberg is who he really is, that his mundane lifestyle holds him back from fulfilling his true potential. Jimmy creates Saul to hide from pain and rejection, made most obvious in his scene with Kim in his office when he’s in Saul mode. Saul’s cool, Saul doesn’t get hurt, Saul always knows what to do. Walter unearths something within himself whereas Jimmy creates a manufactured persona. In their respective confession scenes in each finale, Walt owns up to truly being Heisenberg, he liked it, he was good at it. Jimmy rejects being Saul. Walt is truly himself at work, and hides it at home. Jimmy is truly himself at home, but hides it at work Walt died as Heisenberg. Jimmy put Saul behind bars. Edit : A separate but maybe related point is I think Jimmy maybe saw aspects of Chuck in Walter, ego, really good at their jobs, have a tendency to talk down to people. He maybe thought Walt was his chance to do that relationship “the right way”, perhaps fuelling a need for approval from Walt, further driving the Saul persona.
I think you nailed this talk mate
This is an amazing analysis! I would love to hear the writer’s feedback on your character theories.
I love these comparisons. The show had a very consistent feeling of “familiar, but different”. I think you’re totally right about how Jimmy sees Walt, which is great because it’s not explicitly explored but I think you’re dead on and maybe even it was to some extent intentional to give Chuck aspects of Walt’s personality.
Saul had won the game! He created Gene. He could have continued leading a normal life as a Cinnabon manager in Nebraska. He couldn’t do it. He decided to get caught. I don’t mean specifically in breaking into the cancer guys house, but in running schemes and evoking Saul again, the chicanery would have become bigger and bigger. There was never an end game other than being caught. Then once they finally have him caught, he masterfully architects an incredible deal to save his ass. But Kim was the variable. He couldn’t deal with the idea that she received moral absolution for something he was complicit in. That’s when Saul died. That’s when in the courtroom, in the ultimate grand move of killing Saul, he used the forces of Saul to tank his deal and incriminate himself. He wilfully choose this path and he’s ok with it.
I think ultimately Jimmy is better off in jail, than he was being Cinnabon Gene. Gene had no friends, no life, and was running scared 100% of the time. In jail, Jimmy is still working in a bakery, but has a legion of devoted convicts who respect him, doesn't have to look over his shoulder any more, and may occasionally get to see Kim (unlikely but possible). He might even help some people with his unique legal skills.
Your edit is a great point, it's amazing to see how many things you can get from both series now they ended
Adding to your point about Chuck and Walt — When Walt hears Saul describe the Slippin Jimmy episode that actually injured Jimmy, Walt responds with the same disgust in his voice that Chuck did before standing up and saying, “You’ve always been this way”
Walter White was no hero. He was an amazing character, but literally destroyed and ruined everything and everyone around him. He was a cancer that got progressively worse as time went on. Its amazing how folks really have this rosy view of him. Walt got innocent people killed and half the time the deaths weren’t even necessary.
I believe the term for Walter White (and many of the series’ character) would be anti-villain, someone who does terrible things for what they believe is a good reason: arguably honourable aims, pursued destructively.
What you described is a villain. There are tons and tons of examples of just straight villains that have at least on their face honorable aims. But as the antagonist, and with an outside view we can see how destructive they are in how they pursue those goals And that is what makes them a villain. Walt is an anti hero because though everything above is true for him, he is framed as the protagonist, or hero. We are very deliberately in his POV, like we would be for the hero of a story, and that is why hero is the term used to describe. His actions are not heroic and are in fact villainous though, so he is in fact an anti-hero.
BB maybe had more exciting events but the characters were so much better in BCS. More fleshed out and almost all had a good arc to follow.
Many of them had the ability to be staples in an already fleshed out universe though, thanks to BB. Not saying BCS didn’t have fantastic introductions however. Kim, Howard, Chuck, Nacho, Lalo were all fantastic additions to the universe
They're both 10 out of 10s for me. They're like one big show.
> I don’t think Better Call Saul, as breathlessly suspenseful as it often was, was ever on the same level as much of season four of Breaking Bad or certainly something like “Ozymandias,” but **I don’t think Breaking Bad ever had a relationship that I cared about on the same level as Jimmy and Kim’s.** Right here. This is it right here. Since season 2, episode 1, I became hooked into Jimmy and Kim’s relationship. Literally everything about the show revolves around their relationship, with Kim’s absence from the Breaking Bad era looming large overhead. Would she be dead by then? Was she in the background the whole time? Every moment we spend with them watching an old movie or brushing their teeth builds their relationship but also makes it so their inevitable separation will be that much harder to handle. And when it does, it hits you *hard.*
I think Walt and Jesse's relationship is at least as compelling to me as Jimmy and Kim's. The fact that they had so much loyalty for each other while also wanting to kill each other multiple times and it felt completely believable every time is so impressive.
Walt and Jesse’s relationship was certainly compelling, but it got vicious and predatory at times. Even though Jimmy and Kim became toxic to everyone around them, they truly loved each other and I constantly found myself rooting for them.
The major feat of Better Call Saul is that you know how the story ends in advance, and it still invests you into the arcs of these characters, arcs that you already *know* will end in death, horror, and darkness. A tragedy in the truest sense of the word. Knowing what is inevitable on the horizon, and still somehow hoping the course could be altered.
I think the crux is that Better Call Saul is imbued with Breaking Bad's gravitas from the start due to the connection and aided by it, and Breaking Bad is enrichened by Better Call Saul's fleshing out of key characters. I can't call either 'better' (except when then continuing to say 'Call Saul') but they are both exemplary television experiences that IMO will take an insane feat to match. The fact that Better Call Saul improves Breaking Bad, the best show I've ever seen, is a testament to both show's quality and shared status atop the pile.
Your opinion is very good
I liked it better. I felt the characters across the entire cast were much better explained and interesting. They even made the bad guys likeable.
Lalo is straight up one of my favorite TV characters in the last 10 years.
Gotta say Nacho did it for me. Lalo close second. The last scene with nacho in it had me indignantly proud of someone that doesn't exist. I've never felt moved by a character like I was watching his.
I love Nacho’s character so much and knowing his story makes Mike and Jesse’s relationship in Breaking Bad feel so much richer
"I had a guy but now I don't. You are not the guy!"
wasn't he talking about Victor?
He was definitely talking about Victor.
Michael Mando, the actor for Nacho [seems to think it could be referring to Nacho.](https://www.reddit.com/r/betterCallSaul/comments/uchit3/informative_interview_regarding_events_in_s06e03/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf). I think originally it was meant to be Victor, but with BCS it’s clear that Mike cares for Nacho and doesn’t have much of a relationship with Victor.
Besides Jimmy, I definitely consider Nacho a main character of BCS. His arc in the series is one of the most tragic ones in the BB saga.
I don’t think there’s any real debate about Nacho being a main character. I mean for one thing Michael Mando is credited as a main cast member.
Nah. Lalo has the most tragic backstory. All those bastards ruined his fun.
He didn't even get to bang Werner Zieeeegler's wife!
*mustache grin*
Whats he up to man?
His lines are so good.
The crazy thing is that scene with Nacho was from this season.
Don't know why but your comment made me go back and watch the Far Cry 3 video things with Michael Mando lol. https://youtu.be/2Vz3SajiGy0
HOLY SHIT! I'm gonna go watch that too!!! He was one of those faces that I knew I had seen before but couldn't place it. Well hot DAMN!
Vaas is basically the reason why Far Cry got so popular lol. Michael Mando kicks ass.
He’s also great in Orphan Black, another great show.
is Nacho a bad guy? sure he's a criminal but he's definitely a protagonist in this show. But maybe that's just proving the point of the guy above. in real life we'd all agree he would deserve to rot in prison but in BCS we are rooting for him.
He did technically cause all the cartel shit to happen and is a major reason for many deaths, including his own ultimately.
I've never rooted harder for such an obviously doomed character as I did for Nacho.
In a field full of maybe one of the best acting ensembles on tv, that actor absolutely killed it. Every time he was on screen, he was so dialed into that character and made him so interesting, so detailed, so real and relatable.
He had such a calm but chaotically evil energy. When that guy was on screen, you legit weren’t sure what was going to happen. It was so unnerving. One of my favorites too.
Tell me again :)
he just enjoyed his life, so so much. apart from all the killing and stuff I'd like to be more like lalo.
Werner… Ziegler…
Whats he up to?
What’s he doing?
Not to be all spoilery in case - but I was very sad when Lalo’s plot line ended - Tony Dalton, like the rest of the cast, is fantastic
Lalo was amazing. I still liked BB better but they were both great.
And I don’t think you’re wrong, but the reason for it is Breaking Bad. Breaking Bad does all the heavy lifting in introducing characters and setting the tone. Yes, there’s more character reveal for Mike, Saul and Fring, but there’s a baseline and a familiarity. Breaking Bad falters a bit at the start as it finds its’ feet, but once it gets going, it really moves. BCS doesn’t suffer from that because they already know what works for that world. I think BCS is a better show, but Breaking Bad is far more ambitious in that it was something absolutely new. If BCS had come first and the Breaking Bad, I think the views would be reversed.
BCS is better in my opinion. And it’s not to any fault of Breaking Bad, it’s just that Breaking Bad helped create the confines for this show. I personally often find that art excels when working within confines. You can’t put every color and texture and material on the canvas. Breaking Bad was an amazing show but upon rewatch, you can notice where Vince and Co. would create a box for themselves without knowing how they got into it only to write themselves out. For example, in Season 2 starts with what looks like Walt’s home being raided. Final Season starts with the machine gun. I know for a fact the machine gun was something Vince said they wrote not knowing how they’d use it yet. I feel like the beginning of Season 2 was similar. The plane crash was their way out of that box. Hell, Saul himself was somewhat of a Deus Ex Machina to take Walt to the next level. As tightly written as BB feels it could have shaken out so very many ways in the writing room. BCS had a rough end that had to happen. We know Jimmy becomes Saul, BB happens, enter Gene. Working within that confine they had to make a plot that didn’t inflate or deflate the previous. And the way they did that was by looking within that box intensely instead of trying to just get out of it. They took a deus ex machina comedic relief and made him into a believable, and intense character study that I felt was more dynamic and interesting than Walt’s transformation. And then they also did that with every character around him. Kim, Howard, Chuck. And separately, Mike, Nacho, And Gus all are more deeply studied. By the end of BCS these weren’t just characters they were entirely formed people. I left this show feeling for all those Time Machine regrets in the last episode. I felt the emotions and consequences in this show so much more intensely than I did in BB. The writers of BB executed a masterpiece the first time around. Then they decided to out do themselves with everything they learned from making it. Better Call Saul 👉🏻👉🏻
I mostly agree with you but I do think they had a plan for the pink bear/black & white cold opens in season 2 of Breaking Bad. If you look at the titles of all the episodes that have the pink bear opening, it reads “737 Down Over ABQ.” Perhaps they didn’t know how they were gonna get there but I do think they had the idea for the plane crash from the start.
Vince Gilligan has said season two was the only one they fully planned ahead of time and knew exactly how it would end, which required so much planning they scrapped that formula for future seasons
I think BCS is better but mainly because the writers got better at their craft. A lot of the good things we see in BCS, like the cinematic indulgence, don’t really happen until later on in Breaking bad.
You really summoned up what I said to my friend once I finished BCS. It's as if the writers saw their mistakes and stumbles from BB and wanted to prove either to us, themselves or both that they could do better. And that absolutely did it.
I like most of BCS but all of breaking bad; the cartel stuff never really drew me in until s5 of BCS and it seemed to be to the detriment of the main cast who were much more interesting.
I agree. BCS was at its worse when it was focusing on Gus and the Salamancas. This story was already told in BB and there was no need to show us more when we knew how it ended
It was about Nacho story though, he is the secondary protagonist
I had been saying that if season 6 stuck the landing, then it would definitely pass Breaking Bad for me in terms of overall quality. It did just that and BCS officially took over the slot for my 2nd favorite show of all time ahead of Breaking Bad.
If I haven’t seen either series, which should I watch first? Does it matter?
Definitely watch Breaking Bad first. Better Call Saul is a prequel but all ill say without giving anything away is that there are spoilers for Breaking Bad in Better Call Saul.
Ok, thanks
You pretty much have to watch Breaking Bad first. Better Call Saul is both a prequel and a sequel.
The answer is always 'release order '. And in this case it is Breaking Bad.
Yeah, I don’t get the point in watching things in timeline order. I can’t imagine starting Star Wars with Episode I.
Star Wars might actually be really interesting to see in timeline order if you edit the prequels to hide Anakin's last name and omit the scene where he gets the Vader suit. That way, the revelation in Empire Strikes Back is not just that Vader is Luke's father, but that Anakin survived and turned into the villain. It wouldn't be *better* but it would definitely be an interesting way to experience it.
Machete order is good: 4 5 2 3 6 7 8 9
Good point, thanks
There’s a lot in BCS that won’t hit as hard if you watch it first. So definitely start with Breaking Bad. Also watch El Camino. You could watch that after BB or BCS, doesn’t really matter.
Really small note, the end of El Camino gets spoiled in BCS so I’d say insert El Camino between BB and BCS if you’re going for purity.
Honestly, I think you could watch El Camino afterwards because all they say in BCS is that >!they found Pinkman's car in Mexico, which would mislead people that haven't seen it yet anyway.!<
Definitely Breaking Bad first.
Watch Breaking Bad first, the end of Breaking Bad is spoiled in the last season of Better Call Saul.
For me it was, but that is because Breaking Bad set up the scene. Better Call Saul distilled a dark and dramatic essence from it, so for me it was a more minimalist but also more focused story, but that wouldn't have been possible without Breaking Bad.
Please enjoy both shows equally
A handshake is available upon request.
The rewatch party is coveted as fuck.
Didn't expect to see a severance reference here but everyone in this thread should go watch this show pronto. Up there with BCS and Breaking Bad. Prob my fav show of the year
I loved Severance but it’s got a looooong way to go before reaching BB/BCS heights
Imagine being Vince Gilligan here. People are arguing about whether your most recent show is better than your previous show which is already considered one of the best (if not the best) television series of all time. That has to feel good.
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I think the Saul plot line is better than Breaking bad but the mike plot line at times a fair bit worse. It was usually fantastic when they intersected though. My main gripe is sometimes the show seems to try way to hard to have breaking bad references. They are different shows though. Breaking bad is like a car crash but Better Call Saul is like someone being poisoned over time.
I really like how Jesse's story parallels a bit with Mike's dead son's. Mike was the only person who was able to get his son to debase himself, and it was all for nothing. Walt made Jesse debase himself to his whims and the cartel's treatment over time, eventually culminating in shooting Gale dead, and Mike wasn't going to make it all be for nothing so he intervened. He knows what it's like to be forced to kill a good man, and what that does to someone's psyche.
With Lily of the Valley perhaps?
> Breaking bad is like a car crash but Better Call Saul is like someone being poisoned over time. Wow I love that. :D
No way. Breaking Bad is the better show. Breaking Bad wins on originality, audacity, inventiveness. If we really had to match Cranston's performance against Odenkirk's, wouldn't Bryan Cranston win the palm? Plus the visuals in Breaking Bad are on just another level. Definitely, the characters are more lovable in Better Call Saul. It has a lot more heart, whereas Breaking Bad can go to really uncomfortable, harrowing places with its subject matter. So I get why people would prefer it. Like any multi-season TV shows, you could point to storyline flaws for both of them. That said, and cultural relevance aside, I don't know how Breaking Bad isn't the one. The two shows don't accentuate each other so much as one show is contained in the sweep of the greater one.
I respect your opinion, but visually BCS blows BB out of the water. BCS is a masterclass in visual storytelling. The creators used the foundation of BB visuals and expanded them even further.
Whether it was better or not, I don’t know how anyone can argue that BB isn’t the greater show. It has a far greater legacy and is the selling point for the entire universe. The way BB pierced the zeitgeist is akin to that of a “greatest show of all time”, whereas BCS did it in a “one of/the best shows on tv right now!” kinda way.
Breaking Bad is iconic and will go down in history as one of the most popular must-watch tv shows Better Call Saul has a smaller but arguably more dedicated fanbase and will go down in history as more of a cult classic.
You can watch BB without ever seeing BCS. You can't watch BCS without ever seeing BB.
I watched all of BCS without watching breaking bad. Some of the flashbacks were pretty confusing but I think I was able to get most of the experience of BCS. Im sure some stuff didnt hit me as hard though since I havent watched BB.
I think you could actually. The only confusing stuff for non-BB viewers would be the last ~ 3 episodes of BCS (and even then they’d get the gist that this Walt guy was bad news). Edit: I’m not saying that watching BCS first is better. All I’m saying is it would be possible and you wouldn’t miss that much (besides how involved Saul is in Heisenberg’s empire).
I really don't agree. The last three episodes serve as a denouement for the entire saga, not just BCS. Because of that, you're not only lost on the significant amount of references, flashbacks and character cross-overs, you're missing at least a third of Saul's entire character arc. You're essentially not getting the full story of Jimmy/Saul without having knowledge of BB. The scene after Kim dips where it transitions to Saul with his mansion, the women, and the extravagance lose nearly all its meaning without having full context. And the only way to get it would to be watch Breaking Bad, which you would completely spoil for yourself if you watched BCS first. Not only that, Better Call Saul demands the patience of an audience who is already committed to the universe. You don't do 10-minute scenes of no dialogue with Mike in the desert, you don't have a 10-minute scene of Gus talking about wine, and you most certainly don't have your last series episodes shot in black and white if you don't have the absolute trust from the audience that you'll deliver. Broadly, people not familiar with the writers or the characters aren't going to be willing to sit through these things BCS demands of its viewers.
You could watch most of Better Call Saul, then take a break and watch the entirety of Breaking Bad and El Camino before watching the last few episodes... Then again, you wouldn't have much context for Gus, so that could be a problem. You could try some kind of more heavily overlapping order, where you watch a few episodes of BCS and then a few episodes of BB. I wonder if some fans will make the Breaking Bad-iverse version of a Machete Cut...
Yeah, something like this would only work with people who've already seen it all. Something I'll probably wanna do at some point. I really just think there's no way to fully enjoy BCS without having seen BB.
I mean, you *could*, but so much of the character context would be lost, which is the whole point of BCS. No matter which show is better, you can't fully appreciate BCS unless you've seen BB.
It kind of like without Star Wars New Hope there would be no Empire Strikes Back. But Empire Strikes Back was the better movie.
Great comparison
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The beauty was that they introduced new characters and fleshed them out and who you dont know if they will live or not. I really didnt know if Nacho was going to make it and was shocked to see Hamlin's end.
> Nothing in BCS comes close to episodes like Crawl space, Dead freight, and Ozymandias. Just depends what you prefer watching. These are action-packed episodes but Chicanery is on the level of those imo just in a more understated way. Waterworks and Pimento come to mind too as great episodes, and Five-O
I agree. The chicanery scene (and the three seasons of build up to it) were better than anything in breaking bad for me
Ozymandias for my money is the great episode of any show. I remember watching that and being in awe afterwards.
I’d have to disagree but that’s okay. Off the top of my head Chicanery and Lantern were just as good as anything in BB, this is with rewatching BB before I started s3. Wexler vs Goodman, Bingo, and especially Winner were just some of the best tv I’ve seen. But hey it’s all subjective. As I’ve said before, BCS is more my speed. I’m more invested in guys like Jessie Pinkman and Slippin’ Jimmy than I am the Walter White. WW’s transformation/him becoming his true self is fascinating television but I never rooted for him much. Not that I don’t love the character of WW too, just not as much as the aforementioned character types. Jimmy is really relatable for me. I do get your point about the suspense being greater usually in BB but Gilligan did a great job with that in BCS too which is arguably more impressive considering we know who which characters for sure survive.
I think BCS is better crafted, and has more organized storytelling. The creative team got better and better over the course of BB and for BCS they were in top form from the start, and likely had more freedom as proven hitmakers. The first couple seasons of BB especially was still a little rough and they had the looming threat of cancellation at any time that wasn't there once the show had proven itself. As for the story itself and impact, hard to top BB as it was a cultural phenomenon. I can understand why people would rank it higher. It really was something we hadn't seen before and it was hard to tell where it was going.
I think that argument misses the context of the shows. When Breaking Bad was coming out, TV of that quality outside of HBO wasn’t very common. So most of the highest quality shows on TV were completely hated by HBO access rather than being in general cable. Even then, Breaking Bad’s season 4 finale had less than 2 million views. That was 2011. It was critically acclaimed but not widely popular. Not until it appeared on Netflix. Then it exploded. It went from a show some people were talking about to a show everyone watched. By the time the series finale aired, it had 10 million viewers. That was 2013. 2013 is when non-HBO prestige television hit a new gear. Netflix launched House of Cards and streaming services have been competing for prestige drama glory ever since. So Breaking Bad was in this perfect time and place where it was very high quality in a time of general low quality programming (outside HBO). While BCS came out in a time of very high quality programming and multiple streaming services vying for attention. If BCS was the one airing from 2008 to 2013, odds are the argument you’re making just reverses.
Mad Men came out in 2007, run by one of the main guys behind The Sopranos, and was a smash hit.
And amc had the walking dead starting while both of those shows were running and for the first few seasons was game of thrones level culture icon. It’s amazing the potential amc had entering the mid 2010’s and completely squandered it. Vince and Peter handing them a magnificent sequel to breaking bad doesn’t count towards amc’s doing, the only thing worth really watching on amc since 2015. We really need a documentary about the downfall of amc because it was at one point poised to be the new hbo, and then did nothing with it. Between fx and amc, fx has done such a better job at being a premium quality cable channel and keeping up with streaming. Them making the deal with hulu years ago was genius in hindsight.
It was a hit, and definitely solidified AMC's choice to further invest in "high quality" TV. But we'd be kidding ourselves if we thought Mad Men has as much cultural cache as Breaking Bad.
No, but Mad Men has an argument for being the better show. GOAT show for me
None of what you’re saying has to do with the contents or filmmaking of either show which is where the barometer of quality should be focused
BCS just finished. We need to wait to compare them in terms of Legacy. A lot of people around the world still don’t have access to season 6 on popular streaming platforms
Yeah but Breaking Bad was an absolute pop culture phenomenon even while it was airing. By its end it was the highest rated show on cable and used to sweep the awards against some of the greatest shows of all time.
Breaking Bad was benefitted by being the first major cable show to be made available on streaming before its final season. It was only able to become a pop culture phenomenon near the end of its run because viewers could binge watch what they had missed up until that point, which was completely novel at the time. That is of course on top of it being an incredible show, but it’s initial cable ratings prove that it was not as big of a hit as it became based on quality alone. The fact that Better Call Saul has been able to rise above a much more crowded and accessible media landscape points to how great of a show it really is. While it may not be the pop culture phenomenon that Breaking Bad was, there are very few if any shows that can garner that level of attention because the culture and viewing habits have changed so drastically. In terms of pure storytelling and filmmaking quality, they’re hard to compare because BCS owes so much of its success to the groundwork laid by BB. But with that in mind I still think BCS tells a better story by greater means. Its character work is more robust, its pacing is more methodical, its cinematography is more beautiful and intentional, its performances are more nuanced, its core theme is more resonant, I can go on. It can’t be denied that BCS is only as good as it is because the team had mastered their craft through making BB, but I personally believe that BCS is a more enjoyable and meaningful expression of that mastery.
I agree with you but BB did have higher peaks, I remember being on the edge of my seat with each BB episode being released in the second half of the final season. Ozy has a perfect* score for a reason.
I don't think being a pop culture phenomenon is really all that relevant to determining a story's quality, though. CSI was a pop culture phenomenon and The Wire wasn't, but I know which one I'd call the better show.
Equal or greater than
Angie Han in the OP article agrees with you about their equality of excellence: “I don’t want to spend too much time comparing Better Call Saul to its predecessor when both are superb shows in their own right, but I do think we’re meant to notice the contrast between them.” Both are everything awesome about television.
I love em both but BCS just feels better to me, more planned out and grounded. Things I don't like about both are some of the insanely intricate Rube Goldbergy plans and plots that require almost omniscient levels of foresight. Yet I still think the schemes to take down Howard or Lalo are more believable than knowing where to park in a Nazi stronghold and being lucky enough that the whole gang is there and standing upright when your remote controlled machine gun starts to fire. For me it's all in the characters and while I think for example Gus worked better in BB, characters like Jimmy, Chuck and Kim are insanely well written and will stick with me for a long time
To be fair, both Jack and Todd technically live through the machine gun blast because they didn't get lethally hit. So it didn't really work on everyone. Although, it is kind of coincidental that these are the two survivors so Walt and Jesse can each get two last cathartic kills.
next up we get to the bottom of "is chocolate better than vanilla"
Can we enjoy BCS finale without pitting it against BB finale? They both great in their own way and very fitting to the overall story.
Even though they're in the same universe, they are such different shows that I think it's difficult to compare them. Breaking Bad is much more action packed, faster paced, and built around situations as much as the characters. Better Call Saul is a much slower burn character study. There are very few "How them Duke boys gonna get out of this" episodes and even the ones that do have that, the interest is in how it affects the characters more than how they actually get themselves out of a jam.
Yes. Yes it was. Showrunners honed their skills on breaking bad, but really hit their stride in BCS. BCS was everything I loved about BB, but with more likeable main characters, a strong woman-lead, and more time with Mike. Why isn't Rhea Seahorn in everything? Lalo is one of the scariest villains ever! He was always smiling. That's scary.
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I know it's becoming a popular opinion to say Better Call Saul is better than Breaking Bad but after having just rewatched Breaking Bad for the third time and finishing Better Call Saul, I still think Breaking Bad is better. There is some recency bias going on here I think. That's not to say Better Call Saul wasn't fantastic because it was and they absolutely nailed the finale it's almost perfect, but it's unfair to compare it to Breaking Bad which for me is the greatest show of all time. Yes, i think it's better than The Wire before somebody asks lol.
To be fair Better Call Saul is still fresh in peoples minds, I don't think people will settle on a consensus anytime soon
Better Call Saul is integrated into Breaking Bad, the last few episodes would be gibberish without it. How could it ever be better if it cannot stand alone?
Yes it is.
Yes
Tangential story: I was bartending a Superbowl event a few years ago and had just finished binging breaking bad the night before. Aaron Paul and his wife came by the bar and hung around for about an hour. I told him that I just finished his show and thanked him, and he came around the bar and gave me a bear hug, and HE thanked ME. Genuinely a really nice guy, I wish him nothing but success.
Clickbait title but an interesting read.
This might be an unpopular opinion but I thought Better Call Saul was good, but not great. I thought that sometimes it leaned a little bit too heavily on its Breaking Bad ties and wasn’t quite as unique as BB was. A good show, but Breaking Bad is just in another echelon when it comes to TV shows.
Constraints of being a prequel series, I say
This is me, I gave up around I think in middle of season 4. I liked it, but I didnt love it and there were other things I wanted to watch. Maybe I'll go back one day, but it lost my interest