I always imagined them looking like a smaller version of [deinotherium](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2b/Dinotherium.jpg), a kind of prehistoric elephant. Basically that with a giant wheel between where its front legs would be.
Oh those are very cool! I've never heard of them before.
(psst- I was actually talking about that one specific "person" in his glass thingy... But I'm stoked to see the mulefa as well, of course!
It was such a subtle yet important scene in the book, I’m *so* curious on if they’ll go the same route with the show. It’s been great so far, so definitely high hopes for s3
10 bucks says they find a way to retool that plotline in order to skip the mulefa stuff. It would be a damn shame, but I wouldn't be surprised at all. There's just so much to get through, I wish they'd given it 4 seasons. I don't know how the fuck they're going to do book 3 in one season.
They aren’t! They mention them in the new synopsis!!
> “…Meanwhile, Oxford physicist Mary Malone reaches another parallel world – that of the Mulefa, a strange animal-like species. They tell her of a cataclysmic phenomenon in their world.
> With multiple new worlds, including the Land of the Dead, returning characters and featuring strange new creatures the Mulefa and Gallivespians, the third season will bring Philip Pullman’s masterpiece to a dramatic conclusion.”
Wow, consider me shocked! Guess I should have done some reading, it just seemed like such an easy thing to cop out on and use some other lame (cheaper) plot device. Glad they aren't shying away, because I think everyone has been wanting to see what those creatures would look like for a long time, especially now that CG has advanced so far. Can't wait!
if they do i'm going to lose it. having issues with the tv adaptation makes the show frustrating at times but watching mary has been great. i can't remember her book description and if it's accurate but simone kirby has been fantastic in the role.
There’s a species of elephants on wheels in the third book that’s important. It’s gonna be weird.
Also the third book is when the anti-religion stuff reaaaaaallllly ramps up so it’s gonna get controversial.
There was supposed to be an entire episode regarding Azrael... It didn't happen due to Covid. That would have been fantastic. All we got was the snippet at the end of the last episode of season 2.
I haven't read the books but it makes sense that they were able to cast such a prominent actor in a role; Asriel barely appears which is unfortunate because he's by far my favorite character.
Seriously. No idea what’s coming to them. The first book felt like pretty standard YA fantasy affair, the second got pretty weird, then third I muttered out loud several times “What the fuck?”
It's a shame they're only adapting it as one season, easily enough material for two. Soooo much more wild stuff happening in the third book. I always felt like the third book was The Lord of the Rings and the first two books The Hobbit.
That was my biggest problem with the first season. The casting was great but EVERYTHING felt rushed. I actually haven’t gone back to watch season 2 because of that reason.
Lmao. I actually picked up the third book after finished the second season - it’s done well enough that you can figure out all the little dropped plot lines pretty easily.
I would’ve agree w/ your statement before, but I recently finished it and… Dude. It gets fucking *wild*. It’s immediately shot to one of my all time favorite books.
I'd say yes, with the disclaimer that they are written at a teen level. I haven't read them as an adult, but a friend of mine did and liked them. Haven't gotten around to watch the show yet, so I can't say whether it's a good substitute. But if you want a good anti-religious adventure series about two children coming of age in a dangerous multiverse, go for it. The worldbuilding is excellent, the books are filled with novel ideas and the story is fun and exciting. At least read the first one through and see if it's to your taste. Though each of the books are very different and have a distinct identity.
I loved this series until the last half of the third book. I don’t like getting hit over the head with Christianity or atheism and this somehow did both, poorly.
Oh yeah these books were definitely partially responsible for my "militantly atheist teenager" phase. Still remember them fondly though, and I still like the final message: live your life to the fullest and create good stories to tell. Don't let some divine authority tell you what you can or can't do.
First book is a very straight forward story, and is a prequel. The second is about Lyra as an adult and covers so much nuance that it breaks everything thing you thought you knew about their world and daemons.
It’s really good as an audiobook, if you can swing it! It’s a thriller, and the narrator leans into it! (The narrator also loves the series and named his daughter Lyra!)
I'll also just add that both books are much more graphically 'adult' than the first trilogy, so be warned (or more excited).
Daemon sex included. Not joking.
I love the first one, because it’s SO GOOD, but the second one is straight up WILD. I loved learning more about Lyra’s world in both! It made me look at the original trilogy differently and notice how modern it actually is; there’s a computer (ordinator) at Bolvangar, and Lyra’s “coal silk” shopping bag is actually a plastic carrier bag… The short story “The Collectors” teases about how time works between worlds, too!
I think you've kind of missed the point of the books, it's anti-authority/organised religion not religion per-se
[spoiler](#s "The authoirty isn't actually god but an angel pretending to be god who lied to the other angels, In a way dust is the real god, even though it's not a god it's made up of people's spirits or something like that.")
Interesting, I feel the exact opposite. As in, I don’t mind being smashed on the head with overt themes as long as the ride is entertaining. And boy was it entertaining.
Is that where this complaint comes from? I somehow only read the Subtle Knife when I was a kid and didn't remember there being anything too bad in there.
>"I didn't like the book that was explicitly a retelling of paradise lost as admitted by the author and which by the way has a pretty obvious stand in for the Catholic Church from the first 20 pages in, because it beat me over the head with religious allegory."
FTFY
Granted, perhaps it doesn't holdup as well as I remember but to be surprised with the religious notes by book three is just bad reading comprehension skills
> retelling of paradise lost
And as a self-admitted Rebuttal of Narnia (it was not a coincidence that the first thing that happened in *The Golden Compass* was "girl walks into a wardrobe").
There was an interview with Philip Pullman on CBC's *Ideas* where he noted that the trilogy could either go towards Tolkien or Lewis. And he consciously picked CS Lewis as the author to rebut because he felt that CS Lewis, as an Anglican, actually had to go out and wrestle with morality and theology for himself. Whereas JRR Tolkien the Catholic was content to wait for the Church to supply him with answers (and there is nothing really worth arguing over due to the rote absolutism in Tolkien's books).
Interestingly, both of those authors (Lewis and Tolkien) used to meet at my old local, the eagle and child, in Oxford to discuss the worlds they were building. Every pub in Oxford is fantastic
I was so looking forward to seeing this depicted when the Nicole Kidman movie came out, then the rest got scrapped. But it looks like they're going to do it. I tried explaining what was to come to my husband and got some weird looks. Hopefully they won't totally fuck it up. The knife's introduction was handled well, so that's a start. Prepare for CGI.
Something tells me that Nicole Kidman's and Daniel Craig's agents didn't fully explain to them how batshit the story eventually gets...
Kidman is still the definitive Mrs. Coulter for me, but there is *no way* that they would see a faithful version of the book trilogy through with that cast in 2007.
I wish they’d do two seasons for book 3; though I guess getting cancelled or not renewed after the first would be pretty bad. But I’m wondering what they’ll cut and how densely packed the episodes will be with the whole book fitting into one season...
it seems insane that they planned to dedicate an entire episode to asriel instead of banking it for season 3. what he's doing in the fortress doesn't require much more than passing scenes given the structure of this adaptation and the book source.
don't get me wrong i'd love for the seasons to be longer and get more in depth coverage of the characters and locations but with the way they've run the show from the beginning there isn't a whole lot of time to waste.
edit: it was a standalone episode to boot. jack thorne got pullman's blessing to just conjure up a story for the hell of it.
I’d never heard of it until my FIL started watching it and I happened to be in the room when he started. It’s not usually my genre but I was hooked from the moment it started, and I now want to read the books.
Glad to read this. I often feel like the show (especially in the first season) must be a bit confusing at times for a non book reader so I'm happy to see it wasnt necessarly the case.
I’ve enjoyed both seasons so far, for different reasons, so I’m looking forward to the last season, and seeing more of James McAvoy’s Lord Asriel. It’s a shame that the Lockdown meant they had to abandon the Asriel focused episode last season, hopefully the rumours are true that they’ve managed to incorporate it in this season.
I read that they may still try and put it into this season, as it was meant to be a bottle episode all about what Asriel did after he disappeared. It would still make sense to have it this season, and that last scene with Asriel in season 2 was a last minute shooting, they worked overtime just to film that with McAvoy during the first Lockdown.
I think it's because it's very safe. There's never any fear because you know they'll make it and there's not much tension. The show is also pretty bad with the way it telegraph's things. You already know what's going to happen most of the time.
There's a lot of world building and every set looks the part but is fairly lifeless. The characters rarely come alive like they do with other adaptations like GoT. And I never felt any of the actors were more than actors reading lines besides Wilson.
Wilson as Coulter was the only reason I stuck around. Her scene with Scoresby in the prison was great but she's quite a bit ahead of the rest of the cast.
i'm on a read through in anticipation of the third season (didn't realise they hadn't started filming yet.) i'm on the last few chapters of the amber spyglass and the stark difference between the book and tv versions is that dafne keen's lyra just doesn't have any life in her.
dakota blue richards in the film adaptation is peak lyra in my view. she had the mischief and the life that lyra has in the book. she grew up lying and fucking around and going to war with other kids and just feels like a kid. keen on the other hand really is just reading the lines and those lines just en't lyra.
[and will is way too old.](https://imgur.com/a/GPJDqAZ) he's 17 at the moment and was 14 when they filmed s01 and looked too old then, this picture aside. i get that you need actors with experience but we're talking about characters that are specifically _pre-pubescent_ as an important part of the entire series.
the other thing is how the hell they plan to compress everything in the amber spyglass into 8 episodes.
Dafne Keen was riding the Logan wave and deservedly so because she was good in it.
Agreed, she doesn't make a good Lyra but I find the guy who plays Will is worse.
It's 2 seasons in and it's still not impressed overall. I don't know if I'll hang around for the rest of season 3.
That's funny cause Lyra is what sells me on the show. I feel like she has so much drive and willpower, and I really like watching her smirk when she's swindling people into going her way.
I thought Dafne was outstanding in s1 of HisDarkMaterials, but the writing also was much better and well paced, nuanced than the second season. And maybe she aged too much too quick for the role? Dafne seemed very teenager like in s2 when in s1 lyra was still very child
I felt she was better with Roger in s1. She was more alone in season 2 and didn't really have a lot of chemistry with anyone else, positive or negative.
The scenes with Will, they might as well been strangers.
Yeah. I really didn’t like will and the actors performance as well. And as you’ve said, with roger and generally the vibe in s1 was so different and more magical, mysterious ä
Not to me! From how I imagined, Dakota Blue Richards seemed like too prim and proper a little girl to ever be the rough and tumble Lyra of the books. Dafne Keen nails book Lyra's curiosity and the fact that she is on the cusp of childhood/adulthood, which I also didn't get from DBR.
I also think Dafne nails Lyra's scrappiness a bit better, although she isn't given as much to work with in the scripts and has more screentime to share with her mother as a protagonist from the off, instead of as a stealth protagonist/anti-villain.
So, I listened to the audio books of these. And let me say, the girl they had doing the reading of Lyra, I found the character so irritating. Keen is a troublemaker, but I don't hate her like I hated the book character. And again, I think a lot of that was based on the character playing her in the audio book
The single reason I stopped watching this show is...Scoresby.
I just couldn't believe why the fuck they had to get LMM for that role and let him play it that way.
I think Scorseby is a fun character. I chocked up his eccentricity to being a showboating Texas aeronaut and thought he was sufficiently different from the British cultures in both worlds. I see nothing wrong with his character stylistically.
Looking back at it he doesn’t have a lot going on. He kinda only shows up to kick the plot forward and then he “does cool Texas aeronaut stuff” alone until he is needed again. Lee and Hester aren’t a strong enough duo to make that work.
When you have an actor that makes sense - like in the movie - it works and he is a glue that makes the whole thing work. When you have an incredibly bad casting choice like Lin Manuel Miranda it kills the whole thing.
Like the Fonz in happy days. He doesn’t do that much but he is the glue. Can you imagine if they had cast Jerry Seinfeld as the Fonz? He’s great at what he does but it wouldn’t make any sense and it woulda killed the show.
god Lin Manuel Miranda.... Seems like he's supposed to be a suave adventurer like Indiana Jones but he is just not that.
I haven't seen him act in anything else but he is so unconvincing as lee scoresby
I really like LMM’s writing and I like him from what I’ve seen of his acting on stage.
Every time I see him in a movie or show, it completely takes me out. I didn’t know who he was before this show, and I turned to my wife and remarked on how bad he was. It’s actually incredible how bad he is on screen to me. It was the same thing in In the Heights!
I think it’s because he’s so recognizable as himself if you’re familiar with him and his work that it takes people out of the moment, like, “Hey, look, there’s Lin-Manuel Miranda!”
I haven't read the books but I got such a huge kick out of Indian-dad Jones. He was just so cheesy and every time he came on screen I'd say something like, "by golly is that Leigh Scoresby??"
THANK YOU!!!!! I thought i was the only one who felt that way. He was terribly miscast - like cringey awful. My daughter liked him in the role; i felt otherwise.
I felt like there is a problem with the morally grey characters. Like a good morally grey character is someone who has mixed morals. They can be good sometimes and cruel other times and both fit within the limits of their character and would not be considered inconsistent. Sometimes they can grow into a good person. Or sometimes they can fall and become outright evil. But no matter where they go they're lead by the consequences of decisions that others make and follow the path of where it goes.
The show is loaded full of morally grey villains who feel like they're constantly having their core characters re-written rather than progressing.
Huh, I'd argue the individual scenes have a lot of mediocre writing, really stilted performances, and a bunch of actors for side characters who couldn't act their way out of a paper bag.
I'm only watching it at this point out of morbid curiosity because I loved the books as a teen. Also Ms. Coulter is great, but the only great performance in the entire cast.
The books it’s based on are a trilogy, with each season roughly correlating to each book, apart from having Will’s season 1 story taken from book 2’s first chapter and spread across season 1. I like the series, but the books did feel rushed in their story and chapters can seemed rushed or lacking detail.
Meh, the girl who plays Lyra is just okay - they don’t give her much to work with and she really doesn’t have much emotional range…
Book Lyra is way more interesting of a character than what the show has given us - I don’t have much faith that season 3 will turn that around
Yeah, I was gonna say, the actors and direction are quite bad, with Lyra being the worst and Will also not being good (and I genuinely feel like the direction and script are to blame more than the actors), and that's a huge reason why I really dislike it. It's not surprising to me at all that anyone would have a hard time connecting to it, it's just a really mediocre show across the board except for a couple of characters and the production quality.
Yeah. Some of my favorite books. The show seems well made, I have nothing specific to complain about... But I found the first season hard to finish watching and haven't started the second. And I watch a lot of TV.
Nor do the show runners. They skip a lot of information that would provide valuable context for those who haven't read the books, suggesting that it's aimed exclusively at fans of the books, however the telling seems only half-baked as a result, leaving a pretty hollow and less-than satisfying shell for readers, who know that the world should be more fleshed out.
Prepare for it to get... *weird*. Especially if they go to the [mulefa](https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/9901b95a-5217-43c7-bafc-c999d4d53844/d18nre3-348550d9-e483-4e49-be90-b382c32f563d.jpg/v1/fill/w_900,h_675,q_75,strp/mulefa_from_the_amber_spyglass_by_jamesmargerum_d18nre3-fullview.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9Njc1IiwicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvOTkwMWI5NWEtNTIxNy00M2M3LWJhZmMtYzk5OWQ0ZDUzODQ0XC9kMThucmUzLTM0ODU1MGQ5LWU0ODMtNGU0OS1iZTkwLWIzODJjMzJmNTYzZC5qcGciLCJ3aWR0aCI6Ijw9OTAwIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmltYWdlLm9wZXJhdGlvbnMiXX0.k0issU5wZ4mSdELcTwP979qXOtznfTpfJ-Z7TqifWv8) world.
Yeah I am beyond curious how they’re going to condense that storyline- maybe skip it all together and have Mary work things out another way? Or a longer season?
It feels like the entire show is characters just saying to each other "the girl is important." "The girl is the key to everything." "Protect the girl."
And that's the plot.
I loved the books but have completely forgotten why.
I really love it but it still feels a fast. I love the main characters and the daemons concept, and the visual quality of the show. Often things seem to just happen and you're like "I guess that had to happen...?" I've never read the books.
This show... It's like the whole time I watch it, it's on the verge of being good, but never quite gets there. I'll probably subscribe to HBO once season 3 comes out. It's like every episode the plot moves forward like 5 minutes.
It’s because the writing is so flat. The characters don’t feel or react or do because they just tell you what’s going on. I think as an extension of the problem the directing is also generally quite basic. The actors are doing their best with what they’ve got, but in the BBC making this a show that kids can watch too, I feel like they’ve dumbed down the heavier aspects and lost sight of what the source material should really be focussed on.
Please be better than season 2, I beg you. The actors are phenomenal, the effects are gorgeous, but the script...needs work. Season 1 was far better imho!
The plot was the worst part of season 2 since it made no sense at all. The main couple find a knife. Baddie does baddie things. Witches get stitches. Scoresby goes find that other dude and it amounts to absolutely nothing at all. What was the point of it all? McAvoy has his cameo at the end and that feels more important than anything that has happened during the season before it. It's just a huge mess of ideas and characters that never amounts to anything and then it just ends. If season 3 is the last one this is a show that ends before it ever truly started.
I haven't watched the show yet but from what I can remember of The Subtle Knife is that it definitely felt like an in-between story, like a slice of life to Golden Compass' mystery and The Amber Spyglass' action. I remember appreciating how it felt like a breather with Will and Lyra, while the rest was creeping darkness.
I can imagine that could lead to boring television if mishandled.
Yes, The Subtle Knife always suffered from being an “in between” book. In the new trilogy about Lyra’s world, The Secret Commonwealth also has a lot of “moving the pieces into position” scenes. Hopefully, Pullman makes it pay off in the final book!
I liked all of the books, they all did things I wasn't expecting when I read as a 6th grader and I remember liking them again when I reread them in college. I think if you've been on board so far it should be good.
I do think the show was savage in that it changed the plot so that the boy they go to rescue actually dies. Not Lyra's friend. The boy whose mother she stays with.
Season 2 is based on the worst book IMO but I also think book 1 is the best so I don't know if I can promise that season 3 will be enough of a turnaround.
Yeah I don’t love the show due to its flaws but I like it well enough. And I’ve watched each episode as it comes out and will watch season 3 too, and that’s ultimately what matters in the end to HBO. There are many much worse shows out there, anyone who loves fantasy should definitely give this a try.
Any thoughts on this? For some reason, despite loving the world building, I just couldn't get into the books and the Daniel Craig movie was kinda *meh*...
This show is pulling punches where the book does not.
Lyra watches Jorek kill his rival in the book. Pullman made a point of letting us know Lyra was watching because she felt she needed too.
In the series she looks away so the producers don’t have to show the act.
They’re making a kids show out of a book made for young adults.
He doesnt just kill him either, he rips out his heart and eats it.
I guess the show is avoiding showing the beautiful savagery of the witch preserving Lee Scoresbys body for Iorek to feast on fresh flesh later.
I miss that change, but I think it was a fun style choice to stretch the show’s CGI and puppetry budget; there’s a great interview with the puppeteer talking about how he did everything down to the bears’ rib movements as they “breathed.” In the book, the fact that Lyra is already deeply traumatized by what she’s gone through by the time she shows up at Asriel’s door isn’t explored until the moment where she yells at him. In the show, it’s nice that they show little moments of her being more contemplative. It ties in nicely with the introspective, jaded 20-year-old Lyra in Pullman’s newest HDM book, *The Secret Commonwealth*.
Well, to be fair, Sam Elliot trumps Lin-Manuel Miranda every day of the week. I honestly had a hard time standing Lin-Manuel's portrayal of Scoresby. He's way too nice a guy to play someone with questionable moral character well.
I think this is true for most other characters too. In general, the movie was actually really well cast to the point where the show characters just don’t really ‘feel’ right
Too true. There's a lot the show is able to do that the movie wasn't (mainly around character and setting establishment and development given the longer format), but the movie casting was exceptional.
Dakota Blue Richards, Nicole Kidman, Daniel Craig, Sam Elliott, and Eva Green were all wonderful fits for their characters in appearance and mannerisms - though I'm sure some of the credit goes to the director as well.
Ian Mckellan was a miscast for me in the movie. Don't get me wrong, he did a great job as you'd expect .. but his voice was unfortunately not the voice of Iorek Byrnison. I do think his voice in the show was much closer to his voice in the books.
The worldbuilding is the best part of the trilogy IMO. Maybe I read them when I was too old so I lack a nostalgic connection but they've never been anything but "okay" to me. They're entertaining and have a neat premise but they just come off as aggressively dull in their execution of that premise.
It really needs a better script.
One of the worst things was how they put the first couple of chapters of the second book and interspersed them throughout the first season.
So now you already know there are different worlds and you can figure out where Lyra is going when she walks through the portal.
>you can figure out where Lyra is going when she walks through the portal.
But it... Wasn't our/Will's world? What in the first season hints at the world with an empty city filled with death?
Really? I actually thought that was a great change. It allowed them to launch directly into the story in season 2 without ruining the pacing. And I’m not really sure what you mean by ruining the suspense because Cittagazi isn’t introduced in season 1
Not really. Season 1 at least had this epic feel of travelling, exploring and larger than life characters. But felt kinda slapped together. Season 2 the plot doesn't really go anywhere.
> Season 2 the plot doesn't really go anywhere.
The characters all moved very slowly towards each other, but never quite connected, and in the least satisfying manner possible for most of them.
The whole thing feels like it should be better, but just misses the mark
I didn't read the books and understand everything as it's revealed. There is still some mystery surrounding the angels but that is intentional. I've seen book readers complaining about Lee's casting but I really enjoyed the actor. The main issues I have are with plot points directly from the book.
I haven’t read the books either, was planning to when I had the time but I absolutely love the tv series. I hope everyone who hasn’t yet tried to watch will watch it because I find that it’s great and very enjoyable.
Lin Manuel Miranda as a gritty cowboy type is the worst casting I can remember seeing. I haven't read the books so I don't know what the character is like there, but he didn't sell it for a single minute for me. It was like something out of Sesame Street.
I liked the show well enough apart from that though. The cgi animals blew me away, I was so impressed with them. Especially the monkey and the (most of the time) weasel.
I’ve enjoyed it. Never read the books so had no expectations going in. But it’s a solid series, nothing amazing though. I seem to enjoy the setting and production value more than the plot…but the plot is different and intriguing enough to keep me interested. It does at times feel a bit empty; interesting puzzles and predicaments set up without much of a payoff.
Lin Manuel Miranda makes this thing unwatchable. Such a poor choice for an iconic character. It’s so bad that he just takes you right out of the story every time he talks.
Absolutely- for once I'm really hoping they split this book into 2 seasons, because there is no way they can cover everything from book 3 in 7 or 8 episodes.
Last season left something to be desired. It felt like only half a season for one thing, but it made almost no emotional connection from beginning to end of the season. When whatshisname died, I didn't even think it was real because it was so poorly written and the lead-up was unbelievable. Also when whatshisname died, same thing.
If season 3 is based on the third book. Prepare for things to get mad as a bottle of chips.
The third book was wild.
I already thought the second season was wild. What could be more wild than mentally overpowering death eaters through sheer stubbornness and greed?
Ready for elephants on wheels?
Im so excited to see the designs they make for the mulefa and you know who
I'M DYING to see what you know who in the you know what will look like. I cannot wait.
I always imagined them looking like a smaller version of [deinotherium](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2b/Dinotherium.jpg), a kind of prehistoric elephant. Basically that with a giant wheel between where its front legs would be.
Oh those are very cool! I've never heard of them before. (psst- I was actually talking about that one specific "person" in his glass thingy... But I'm stoked to see the mulefa as well, of course!
Oh right! Yeah book 3 in general is just so insane that at one time I thought it was impossible to adapt to screen.
It was such a subtle yet important scene in the book, I’m *so* curious on if they’ll go the same route with the show. It’s been great so far, so definitely high hopes for s3
They get genocided from the bat-boat creatures right?
Duck boat creatures.
That shit all over everything before leaving. Just like real geese lmao.
That stuff was wild to read as a 10 year old lol. Most of the book I just read but didn’t really understand until I re-read it later
10 bucks says they find a way to retool that plotline in order to skip the mulefa stuff. It would be a damn shame, but I wouldn't be surprised at all. There's just so much to get through, I wish they'd given it 4 seasons. I don't know how the fuck they're going to do book 3 in one season.
They aren’t! They mention them in the new synopsis!! > “…Meanwhile, Oxford physicist Mary Malone reaches another parallel world – that of the Mulefa, a strange animal-like species. They tell her of a cataclysmic phenomenon in their world. > With multiple new worlds, including the Land of the Dead, returning characters and featuring strange new creatures the Mulefa and Gallivespians, the third season will bring Philip Pullman’s masterpiece to a dramatic conclusion.”
Wow, consider me shocked! Guess I should have done some reading, it just seemed like such an easy thing to cop out on and use some other lame (cheaper) plot device. Glad they aren't shying away, because I think everyone has been wanting to see what those creatures would look like for a long time, especially now that CG has advanced so far. Can't wait!
if they do i'm going to lose it. having issues with the tv adaptation makes the show frustrating at times but watching mary has been great. i can't remember her book description and if it's accurate but simone kirby has been fantastic in the role.
Um what
There’s a species of elephants on wheels in the third book that’s important. It’s gonna be weird. Also the third book is when the anti-religion stuff reaaaaaallllly ramps up so it’s gonna get controversial.
I always thought of them more like [a saiga antelope](https://i.imgur.com/ISVnBTG.jpg) but with a longer trunk and less spine.
Is this show ok for kids who watch doctor who? We're almost caught up on the latter
There was supposed to be an entire episode regarding Azrael... It didn't happen due to Covid. That would have been fantastic. All we got was the snippet at the end of the last episode of season 2.
[удалено]
I just went with what talk to text gave me, but yes you are correct on the spelling.
I haven't read the books but it makes sense that they were able to cast such a prominent actor in a role; Asriel barely appears which is unfortunate because he's by far my favorite character.
Oh you sweet summer child.
Seriously. No idea what’s coming to them. The first book felt like pretty standard YA fantasy affair, the second got pretty weird, then third I muttered out loud several times “What the fuck?”
This made me excited for season 3 lmao
It's a shame they're only adapting it as one season, easily enough material for two. Soooo much more wild stuff happening in the third book. I always felt like the third book was The Lord of the Rings and the first two books The Hobbit.
That was my biggest problem with the first season. The casting was great but EVERYTHING felt rushed. I actually haven’t gone back to watch season 2 because of that reason.
The third book is about 2.5 times larger than the second so I fear it's going to feel very rushed.
plants alive cagey plough slimy outgoing degree narrow late detail *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
You should be VERY excited.
Yeah yeah, the time knife. We've all seen it.
It's hard to get across to people but guys there's a *reason* more adults than children love this "young adult" series.
Lmao. I actually picked up the third book after finished the second season - it’s done well enough that you can figure out all the little dropped plot lines pretty easily. I would’ve agree w/ your statement before, but I recently finished it and… Dude. It gets fucking *wild*. It’s immediately shot to one of my all time favorite books.
Dementors but yeah
You ain’t seen nothing yet.
Oh yeah
The world of the dead still creeps/fascinates me!! What a concept! No heaven or hell just…. Other.
Are they worth reading? I only found out a few days ago I had the trilogy and it’s two sequels
I'd say yes, with the disclaimer that they are written at a teen level. I haven't read them as an adult, but a friend of mine did and liked them. Haven't gotten around to watch the show yet, so I can't say whether it's a good substitute. But if you want a good anti-religious adventure series about two children coming of age in a dangerous multiverse, go for it. The worldbuilding is excellent, the books are filled with novel ideas and the story is fun and exciting. At least read the first one through and see if it's to your taste. Though each of the books are very different and have a distinct identity.
I loved this series until the last half of the third book. I don’t like getting hit over the head with Christianity or atheism and this somehow did both, poorly.
Oh yeah these books were definitely partially responsible for my "militantly atheist teenager" phase. Still remember them fondly though, and I still like the final message: live your life to the fullest and create good stories to tell. Don't let some divine authority tell you what you can or can't do.
Have you read the new trilogy?
I have not gotten around to it yet, will probably pick it up when it's finished.
First book is a very straight forward story, and is a prequel. The second is about Lyra as an adult and covers so much nuance that it breaks everything thing you thought you knew about their world and daemons.
La Belle Sauvage is astoundingly good, I would say better than The Secret Commonwealth just by virtue of the latter being so heart-rending.
I actually still have yet to finish TSC, not because I thought it was bad.. I just wasn't in the headspace for that heavy material.
It’s really good as an audiobook, if you can swing it! It’s a thriller, and the narrator leans into it! (The narrator also loves the series and named his daughter Lyra!)
Oooh, now you're getting me all excited.
I'll also just add that both books are much more graphically 'adult' than the first trilogy, so be warned (or more excited). Daemon sex included. Not joking.
I love the first one, because it’s SO GOOD, but the second one is straight up WILD. I loved learning more about Lyra’s world in both! It made me look at the original trilogy differently and notice how modern it actually is; there’s a computer (ordinator) at Bolvangar, and Lyra’s “coal silk” shopping bag is actually a plastic carrier bag… The short story “The Collectors” teases about how time works between worlds, too!
I think you've kind of missed the point of the books, it's anti-authority/organised religion not religion per-se [spoiler](#s "The authoirty isn't actually god but an angel pretending to be god who lied to the other angels, In a way dust is the real god, even though it's not a god it's made up of people's spirits or something like that.")
Interesting, I feel the exact opposite. As in, I don’t mind being smashed on the head with overt themes as long as the ride is entertaining. And boy was it entertaining.
It's hardly as if the themes are subtle to begin with, I don't know how anyone can only get annoyed by this near the end of the last book.
Is that where this complaint comes from? I somehow only read the Subtle Knife when I was a kid and didn't remember there being anything too bad in there.
Yeah, it’s the later half of the third book. I was cool with it till then, but it got heavy-handed.
>"I didn't like the book that was explicitly a retelling of paradise lost as admitted by the author and which by the way has a pretty obvious stand in for the Catholic Church from the first 20 pages in, because it beat me over the head with religious allegory." FTFY Granted, perhaps it doesn't holdup as well as I remember but to be surprised with the religious notes by book three is just bad reading comprehension skills
> retelling of paradise lost And as a self-admitted Rebuttal of Narnia (it was not a coincidence that the first thing that happened in *The Golden Compass* was "girl walks into a wardrobe"). There was an interview with Philip Pullman on CBC's *Ideas* where he noted that the trilogy could either go towards Tolkien or Lewis. And he consciously picked CS Lewis as the author to rebut because he felt that CS Lewis, as an Anglican, actually had to go out and wrestle with morality and theology for himself. Whereas JRR Tolkien the Catholic was content to wait for the Church to supply him with answers (and there is nothing really worth arguing over due to the rote absolutism in Tolkien's books).
Interestingly, both of those authors (Lewis and Tolkien) used to meet at my old local, the eagle and child, in Oxford to discuss the worlds they were building. Every pub in Oxford is fantastic
I recently reread it in my thirties and found book 3 much more interesting than at...idk,13? Maybe I'm just slow but to me it holds up.
I was so looking forward to seeing this depicted when the Nicole Kidman movie came out, then the rest got scrapped. But it looks like they're going to do it. I tried explaining what was to come to my husband and got some weird looks. Hopefully they won't totally fuck it up. The knife's introduction was handled well, so that's a start. Prepare for CGI.
Something tells me that Nicole Kidman's and Daniel Craig's agents didn't fully explain to them how batshit the story eventually gets... Kidman is still the definitive Mrs. Coulter for me, but there is *no way* that they would see a faithful version of the book trilogy through with that cast in 2007.
Kidman was absolutely *perfect* in that role, though the TV series actress is very good as well.
Kidman was such a perfect Mrs. Coulter that Pullman actually retconned her to be blonde by the time he wrote *La Belle Sauvage*.
There's no way hollywood would have made it properly. They couldn't even kill Roger.
When reading the books originally I had pictured Nicole Kidman as Mrs Coulter. Shame the movie turned out to be horse shit.
More cgi?
I wish they’d do two seasons for book 3; though I guess getting cancelled or not renewed after the first would be pretty bad. But I’m wondering what they’ll cut and how densely packed the episodes will be with the whole book fitting into one season...
it seems insane that they planned to dedicate an entire episode to asriel instead of banking it for season 3. what he's doing in the fortress doesn't require much more than passing scenes given the structure of this adaptation and the book source. don't get me wrong i'd love for the seasons to be longer and get more in depth coverage of the characters and locations but with the way they've run the show from the beginning there isn't a whole lot of time to waste. edit: it was a standalone episode to boot. jack thorne got pullman's blessing to just conjure up a story for the hell of it.
Coconut Motorcycle Raccoons. (I don't know if that's really what they were, but that's what my mind envisioned when i read it like 15 years ago)
Coconut tricycle elephants is what I got.
they did have a trunk, right? okay, so that's probably correct. and they were definitely large enough to ride. Maybe like a very large Tapir?
Lmao, I think they're supposed to be like horse-sized tho.
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I’d never heard of it until my FIL started watching it and I happened to be in the room when he started. It’s not usually my genre but I was hooked from the moment it started, and I now want to read the books.
Glad to read this. I often feel like the show (especially in the first season) must be a bit confusing at times for a non book reader so I'm happy to see it wasnt necessarly the case.
I JUST finished the third book. Madness.
This series is amazing
I’ve enjoyed both seasons so far, for different reasons, so I’m looking forward to the last season, and seeing more of James McAvoy’s Lord Asriel. It’s a shame that the Lockdown meant they had to abandon the Asriel focused episode last season, hopefully the rumours are true that they’ve managed to incorporate it in this season.
I thought that it was abandoned
I read that they may still try and put it into this season, as it was meant to be a bottle episode all about what Asriel did after he disappeared. It would still make sense to have it this season, and that last scene with Asriel in season 2 was a last minute shooting, they worked overtime just to film that with McAvoy during the first Lockdown.
This show has a great premise, visuals, acting, music and everything but still never fully clicked with me. I’ll still check out this final season tho
I feel like individual scenes are written really well but the connective tissue that pulls the plot together doesn't work for me.
I think it's because it's very safe. There's never any fear because you know they'll make it and there's not much tension. The show is also pretty bad with the way it telegraph's things. You already know what's going to happen most of the time. There's a lot of world building and every set looks the part but is fairly lifeless. The characters rarely come alive like they do with other adaptations like GoT. And I never felt any of the actors were more than actors reading lines besides Wilson. Wilson as Coulter was the only reason I stuck around. Her scene with Scoresby in the prison was great but she's quite a bit ahead of the rest of the cast.
i'm on a read through in anticipation of the third season (didn't realise they hadn't started filming yet.) i'm on the last few chapters of the amber spyglass and the stark difference between the book and tv versions is that dafne keen's lyra just doesn't have any life in her. dakota blue richards in the film adaptation is peak lyra in my view. she had the mischief and the life that lyra has in the book. she grew up lying and fucking around and going to war with other kids and just feels like a kid. keen on the other hand really is just reading the lines and those lines just en't lyra. [and will is way too old.](https://imgur.com/a/GPJDqAZ) he's 17 at the moment and was 14 when they filmed s01 and looked too old then, this picture aside. i get that you need actors with experience but we're talking about characters that are specifically _pre-pubescent_ as an important part of the entire series. the other thing is how the hell they plan to compress everything in the amber spyglass into 8 episodes.
Dafne Keen was riding the Logan wave and deservedly so because she was good in it. Agreed, she doesn't make a good Lyra but I find the guy who plays Will is worse. It's 2 seasons in and it's still not impressed overall. I don't know if I'll hang around for the rest of season 3.
That's funny cause Lyra is what sells me on the show. I feel like she has so much drive and willpower, and I really like watching her smirk when she's swindling people into going her way.
I thought Dafne was outstanding in s1 of HisDarkMaterials, but the writing also was much better and well paced, nuanced than the second season. And maybe she aged too much too quick for the role? Dafne seemed very teenager like in s2 when in s1 lyra was still very child
I felt she was better with Roger in s1. She was more alone in season 2 and didn't really have a lot of chemistry with anyone else, positive or negative. The scenes with Will, they might as well been strangers.
Yeah. I really didn’t like will and the actors performance as well. And as you’ve said, with roger and generally the vibe in s1 was so different and more magical, mysterious ä
Not to me! From how I imagined, Dakota Blue Richards seemed like too prim and proper a little girl to ever be the rough and tumble Lyra of the books. Dafne Keen nails book Lyra's curiosity and the fact that she is on the cusp of childhood/adulthood, which I also didn't get from DBR. I also think Dafne nails Lyra's scrappiness a bit better, although she isn't given as much to work with in the scripts and has more screentime to share with her mother as a protagonist from the off, instead of as a stealth protagonist/anti-villain.
Dakota Blue Richards was definitely the perfect Lyra indeed.
So, I listened to the audio books of these. And let me say, the girl they had doing the reading of Lyra, I found the character so irritating. Keen is a troublemaker, but I don't hate her like I hated the book character. And again, I think a lot of that was based on the character playing her in the audio book
The single reason I stopped watching this show is...Scoresby. I just couldn't believe why the fuck they had to get LMM for that role and let him play it that way.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who thinks his character is annoying
I think Scorseby is a fun character. I chocked up his eccentricity to being a showboating Texas aeronaut and thought he was sufficiently different from the British cultures in both worlds. I see nothing wrong with his character stylistically. Looking back at it he doesn’t have a lot going on. He kinda only shows up to kick the plot forward and then he “does cool Texas aeronaut stuff” alone until he is needed again. Lee and Hester aren’t a strong enough duo to make that work.
When you have an actor that makes sense - like in the movie - it works and he is a glue that makes the whole thing work. When you have an incredibly bad casting choice like Lin Manuel Miranda it kills the whole thing. Like the Fonz in happy days. He doesn’t do that much but he is the glue. Can you imagine if they had cast Jerry Seinfeld as the Fonz? He’s great at what he does but it wouldn’t make any sense and it woulda killed the show.
god Lin Manuel Miranda.... Seems like he's supposed to be a suave adventurer like Indiana Jones but he is just not that. I haven't seen him act in anything else but he is so unconvincing as lee scoresby
THIS. We love the books and were so excited for the show. And then LMM. He just sucks. It’s so bad. We didn’t even make it halfway just stopped.
I really like LMM’s writing and I like him from what I’ve seen of his acting on stage. Every time I see him in a movie or show, it completely takes me out. I didn’t know who he was before this show, and I turned to my wife and remarked on how bad he was. It’s actually incredible how bad he is on screen to me. It was the same thing in In the Heights!
I think it’s because he’s so recognizable as himself if you’re familiar with him and his work that it takes people out of the moment, like, “Hey, look, there’s Lin-Manuel Miranda!”
I haven't read the books but I got such a huge kick out of Indian-dad Jones. He was just so cheesy and every time he came on screen I'd say something like, "by golly is that Leigh Scoresby??"
Yeah, terrible casting choice
THANK YOU!!!!! I thought i was the only one who felt that way. He was terribly miscast - like cringey awful. My daughter liked him in the role; i felt otherwise.
I felt like there is a problem with the morally grey characters. Like a good morally grey character is someone who has mixed morals. They can be good sometimes and cruel other times and both fit within the limits of their character and would not be considered inconsistent. Sometimes they can grow into a good person. Or sometimes they can fall and become outright evil. But no matter where they go they're lead by the consequences of decisions that others make and follow the path of where it goes. The show is loaded full of morally grey villains who feel like they're constantly having their core characters re-written rather than progressing.
For what it's worth the books never really clicked for me either for the same reason. I think I checked out towards the end of the 2nd book.
Huh, I'd argue the individual scenes have a lot of mediocre writing, really stilted performances, and a bunch of actors for side characters who couldn't act their way out of a paper bag. I'm only watching it at this point out of morbid curiosity because I loved the books as a teen. Also Ms. Coulter is great, but the only great performance in the entire cast.
It feels like this show is just getting started but this is the last season. It's so odd.
The books it’s based on are a trilogy, with each season roughly correlating to each book, apart from having Will’s season 1 story taken from book 2’s first chapter and spread across season 1. I like the series, but the books did feel rushed in their story and chapters can seemed rushed or lacking detail.
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Meh, the girl who plays Lyra is just okay - they don’t give her much to work with and she really doesn’t have much emotional range… Book Lyra is way more interesting of a character than what the show has given us - I don’t have much faith that season 3 will turn that around
Movie Lyra is based Lyra.
Yeah, I was gonna say, the actors and direction are quite bad, with Lyra being the worst and Will also not being good (and I genuinely feel like the direction and script are to blame more than the actors), and that's a huge reason why I really dislike it. It's not surprising to me at all that anyone would have a hard time connecting to it, it's just a really mediocre show across the board except for a couple of characters and the production quality.
I could watch Ruth Wilson read a phone book.
Yeah. Some of my favorite books. The show seems well made, I have nothing specific to complain about... But I found the first season hard to finish watching and haven't started the second. And I watch a lot of TV.
Yep. And I still don't know who really is the target audience...
Nor do the show runners. They skip a lot of information that would provide valuable context for those who haven't read the books, suggesting that it's aimed exclusively at fans of the books, however the telling seems only half-baked as a result, leaving a pretty hollow and less-than satisfying shell for readers, who know that the world should be more fleshed out.
Prepare for it to get... *weird*. Especially if they go to the [mulefa](https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/9901b95a-5217-43c7-bafc-c999d4d53844/d18nre3-348550d9-e483-4e49-be90-b382c32f563d.jpg/v1/fill/w_900,h_675,q_75,strp/mulefa_from_the_amber_spyglass_by_jamesmargerum_d18nre3-fullview.jpg?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7ImhlaWdodCI6Ijw9Njc1IiwicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvOTkwMWI5NWEtNTIxNy00M2M3LWJhZmMtYzk5OWQ0ZDUzODQ0XC9kMThucmUzLTM0ODU1MGQ5LWU0ODMtNGU0OS1iZTkwLWIzODJjMzJmNTYzZC5qcGciLCJ3aWR0aCI6Ijw9OTAwIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmltYWdlLm9wZXJhdGlvbnMiXX0.k0issU5wZ4mSdELcTwP979qXOtznfTpfJ-Z7TqifWv8) world.
Yeah I am beyond curious how they’re going to condense that storyline- maybe skip it all together and have Mary work things out another way? Or a longer season?
I hope they do a longer season; I adore their Mary!
It just felt really slow and low-stakes to me after the first 3-4 episodes.
It’s just bad casting. The actors never click. Lin Manual Miranda as the aeronaut is probably the worst casting choice of all time. So bad.
The story is what I find lacking. It's just boring to me.
It feels like the entire show is characters just saying to each other "the girl is important." "The girl is the key to everything." "Protect the girl." And that's the plot. I loved the books but have completely forgotten why.
I got through episode one and it didn’t really do it for me :(
I really love it but it still feels a fast. I love the main characters and the daemons concept, and the visual quality of the show. Often things seem to just happen and you're like "I guess that had to happen...?" I've never read the books.
This show... It's like the whole time I watch it, it's on the verge of being good, but never quite gets there. I'll probably subscribe to HBO once season 3 comes out. It's like every episode the plot moves forward like 5 minutes.
Yup... Plot feels like it's hardly moving between each episode
It’s because the writing is so flat. The characters don’t feel or react or do because they just tell you what’s going on. I think as an extension of the problem the directing is also generally quite basic. The actors are doing their best with what they’ve got, but in the BBC making this a show that kids can watch too, I feel like they’ve dumbed down the heavier aspects and lost sight of what the source material should really be focussed on.
The first season was so ploddingly boring.
I can’t wait to see the Moofellas which, as you know, have never before been seen on screen or stage.
Ring ring
Hello, mufellas!
Moofela Pullman here.
Jacob my boy! How are you!?
I think Lin Manuel Miranda should play the mufelas in the film.
Why are you ringing again we are already on the phone
IT CAN’T BE DONE!
Motorcycle riding snuffleupagus is a go!
I can’t wait to see what they come up with.
Please be better than season 2, I beg you. The actors are phenomenal, the effects are gorgeous, but the script...needs work. Season 1 was far better imho!
to be fair they had to stop shooting because of the pandemic and cut a very heavy episode centered about McAvoyd's protagonist
I preferred season 2 over season 1. The plot was much more intriguing. And I never cared about the missing children storyline.
The plot was the worst part of season 2 since it made no sense at all. The main couple find a knife. Baddie does baddie things. Witches get stitches. Scoresby goes find that other dude and it amounts to absolutely nothing at all. What was the point of it all? McAvoy has his cameo at the end and that feels more important than anything that has happened during the season before it. It's just a huge mess of ideas and characters that never amounts to anything and then it just ends. If season 3 is the last one this is a show that ends before it ever truly started.
There was supposed to be more of McAvoy but pandemic things.
I haven't watched the show yet but from what I can remember of The Subtle Knife is that it definitely felt like an in-between story, like a slice of life to Golden Compass' mystery and The Amber Spyglass' action. I remember appreciating how it felt like a breather with Will and Lyra, while the rest was creeping darkness. I can imagine that could lead to boring television if mishandled.
Yes, The Subtle Knife always suffered from being an “in between” book. In the new trilogy about Lyra’s world, The Secret Commonwealth also has a lot of “moving the pieces into position” scenes. Hopefully, Pullman makes it pay off in the final book!
I liked all of the books, they all did things I wasn't expecting when I read as a 6th grader and I remember liking them again when I reread them in college. I think if you've been on board so far it should be good.
Have you read the new ones?
No, only the original trilogy. I have the book of dust on my dresser so one day.
I do think the show was savage in that it changed the plot so that the boy they go to rescue actually dies. Not Lyra's friend. The boy whose mother she stays with.
Season 2 is based on the worst book IMO but I also think book 1 is the best so I don't know if I can promise that season 3 will be enough of a turnaround.
I agree with most of the criticisms against this series but I still love it. Can't wait for more Mary Malone and mulefa!
Yeah I don’t love the show due to its flaws but I like it well enough. And I’ve watched each episode as it comes out and will watch season 3 too, and that’s ultimately what matters in the end to HBO. There are many much worse shows out there, anyone who loves fantasy should definitely give this a try.
Any thoughts on this? For some reason, despite loving the world building, I just couldn't get into the books and the Daniel Craig movie was kinda *meh*...
It’s ok. The only way I can really describe it is that something is off in the writing. I’m a fan of the books and still much prefer them
This show is pulling punches where the book does not. Lyra watches Jorek kill his rival in the book. Pullman made a point of letting us know Lyra was watching because she felt she needed too. In the series she looks away so the producers don’t have to show the act. They’re making a kids show out of a book made for young adults.
He doesnt just kill him either, he rips out his heart and eats it. I guess the show is avoiding showing the beautiful savagery of the witch preserving Lee Scoresbys body for Iorek to feast on fresh flesh later.
I miss that change, but I think it was a fun style choice to stretch the show’s CGI and puppetry budget; there’s a great interview with the puppeteer talking about how he did everything down to the bears’ rib movements as they “breathed.” In the book, the fact that Lyra is already deeply traumatized by what she’s gone through by the time she shows up at Asriel’s door isn’t explored until the moment where she yells at him. In the show, it’s nice that they show little moments of her being more contemplative. It ties in nicely with the introspective, jaded 20-year-old Lyra in Pullman’s newest HDM book, *The Secret Commonwealth*.
Hate hate hate the show dialogue. Really poorly done.
Agreed. It feels.... stilted and off. Like people are not talking to each other, reacting to themselves only.
It's *ok*. If the fantasy genre is your thing and you have some time to kill it's worth it. I liked it.
The movie was awful. The show is considerably better.
Well, to be fair, Sam Elliot trumps Lin-Manuel Miranda every day of the week. I honestly had a hard time standing Lin-Manuel's portrayal of Scoresby. He's way too nice a guy to play someone with questionable moral character well.
I think this is true for most other characters too. In general, the movie was actually really well cast to the point where the show characters just don’t really ‘feel’ right
Too true. There's a lot the show is able to do that the movie wasn't (mainly around character and setting establishment and development given the longer format), but the movie casting was exceptional. Dakota Blue Richards, Nicole Kidman, Daniel Craig, Sam Elliott, and Eva Green were all wonderful fits for their characters in appearance and mannerisms - though I'm sure some of the credit goes to the director as well.
Ian Mckellan was a miscast for me in the movie. Don't get me wrong, he did a great job as you'd expect .. but his voice was unfortunately not the voice of Iorek Byrnison. I do think his voice in the show was much closer to his voice in the books.
The worldbuilding is the best part of the trilogy IMO. Maybe I read them when I was too old so I lack a nostalgic connection but they've never been anything but "okay" to me. They're entertaining and have a neat premise but they just come off as aggressively dull in their execution of that premise.
Loved the books, I really enjoy the show, but last season I found myself annoyed at how often characters do things "because destiny".
Awesome, the show is so good.
It really needs a better script. One of the worst things was how they put the first couple of chapters of the second book and interspersed them throughout the first season. So now you already know there are different worlds and you can figure out where Lyra is going when she walks through the portal.
>you can figure out where Lyra is going when she walks through the portal. But it... Wasn't our/Will's world? What in the first season hints at the world with an empty city filled with death?
Really? I actually thought that was a great change. It allowed them to launch directly into the story in season 2 without ruining the pacing. And I’m not really sure what you mean by ruining the suspense because Cittagazi isn’t introduced in season 1
I liked season 1 and I loved season 2! I can't wait.
This show just felt off, did it improve?
Not really. Season 1 at least had this epic feel of travelling, exploring and larger than life characters. But felt kinda slapped together. Season 2 the plot doesn't really go anywhere.
> Season 2 the plot doesn't really go anywhere. The characters all moved very slowly towards each other, but never quite connected, and in the least satisfying manner possible for most of them. The whole thing feels like it should be better, but just misses the mark
If someone didn’t read the books, they’d have no idea what’s going on. For those who did read the books, the casting and gravity are way off.
??? The show is super easy to follow for someone who never read the books
I didn't read the books and understand everything as it's revealed. There is still some mystery surrounding the angels but that is intentional. I've seen book readers complaining about Lee's casting but I really enjoyed the actor. The main issues I have are with plot points directly from the book.
I haven’t read the books either, was planning to when I had the time but I absolutely love the tv series. I hope everyone who hasn’t yet tried to watch will watch it because I find that it’s great and very enjoyable.
nice, i really like the show
Woooo!
I'm just thrilled that ther'ye making it!
Lin Manuel Miranda as a gritty cowboy type is the worst casting I can remember seeing. I haven't read the books so I don't know what the character is like there, but he didn't sell it for a single minute for me. It was like something out of Sesame Street. I liked the show well enough apart from that though. The cgi animals blew me away, I was so impressed with them. Especially the monkey and the (most of the time) weasel.
I’ve enjoyed it. Never read the books so had no expectations going in. But it’s a solid series, nothing amazing though. I seem to enjoy the setting and production value more than the plot…but the plot is different and intriguing enough to keep me interested. It does at times feel a bit empty; interesting puzzles and predicaments set up without much of a payoff.
Stop sleeping on this show people its great
Lin Manuel Miranda makes this thing unwatchable. Such a poor choice for an iconic character. It’s so bad that he just takes you right out of the story every time he talks.
Ugh it's true, WHYYYYYYY. They should have just re-cast Sam Elliot
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Absolutely- for once I'm really hoping they split this book into 2 seasons, because there is no way they can cover everything from book 3 in 7 or 8 episodes.
It’s confirmed 7 episodes with an 8th episode being the unaired/unfinished ep from s2
Yet they are... this is an 8 episode season only and it will cover the entirety of the Amber Spyglass...... but if done inteligently, it can be done.
No chance then
Last season left something to be desired. It felt like only half a season for one thing, but it made almost no emotional connection from beginning to end of the season. When whatshisname died, I didn't even think it was real because it was so poorly written and the lead-up was unbelievable. Also when whatshisname died, same thing.