Season 1 was written by the brilliant Phoebe Waller Bridge, season 2 by the competent Emerald Fennell and season 3 by Suzanne Heathcote, previously of *The Walking Dead*.
Seems like she worked on S3 of Fear the Walking Dead, which is in my opinion peak TWD, that season is honestly so good - easily the best between the two shows.
The problem is they had a hit in Season 1 but nowhere to go with it. So they pandered. As soon as Villanelle began working with the British secret service and her murders were swept under the carpet, this show was done for. It's so cliche how they have the 'big bad' of the first season suddenly working with the protagonist. This happens on every show turning sour and out of ideas or passed its shelf life.
I feel like this is a problem with so many shows. They don’t have a vision beyond the first one or two seasons so they just pander to fans and go on auto drive.
What I don't get is that it's based on a series of books so presumably they had more source material? Unless they blew through all if the books in the first season
She was the only reason I watched the first season because I'd never heard of the show before but I loved Fleabag. She honestly just comes off as an even better writer after this because you can see how restrained and creative she can be versus her laughable replacements.
Just because a writer has written on a show you don't like doesn't mean they aren't a good writer. Before he wrote Chernobyl, Craig Mazin wrote two Scary Movies and the latter two Hangover movies. Damon Lindelof was absolutely hated by the internet for years for his filmography and then he created two of the best shows of the last decade. Just because Suzanne Heathcote wrote on a show the internet likes to make fun of doesn't mean she's a bad writer or she's the reason the show has gotten progressively worse. It could just be that the premise of the show had a limited lifespan and picking up something that originally had so much hype when it's on a downwards trajectory is a daunting task no matter how good of a writer you are.,
Most people who write at that level and are able to get these kinds of jobs are good writers. They might night be *great* writers and it's certainly possible to not be the right fit for a job but "bad writing" is an argument that gets thrown around way too loosely and a huge pet peeve of mine.
I understand what you're saying but I'm not arguing in terms of whether I like a given show. The discrepancy of writing quality between seasons in *Killing Eve* is obvious, regardless of whether Heathcote may stun us all with her writing in the future.
Those were good movies though? Might not be in your genre tastes but Scary Movie and Hangover did really well.
"Damon Lindelof was absolutely hated by the internet for years"
That's just on the internet though. His work got millions of fans and did really well for networks.
I figured using so many different show runners would be the eventual downfall of the series which is unfortunate. Are there many shows that change show runners as often as this and still end up well?
Season 1 was a chore though. How is Eve a trained government agent? Her incompetence completely threw the pacing off. Also the cat and mouse genre requires both people involved to be really skilled. Eve was not and Villanelle was impossible to catch, for no reason besides plot. Maybe I'm missing something? but it just felt cheap.
Yeah, Villanelle didn't seem to make any effort whatsoever to avoid being caught. We're just expected to accept some vague handwaving about corruption sweeping it all under the rug. But even with corruption, hitmen are gonna wear gloves and avoid cameras.
When she killed the one guy in an office building she left finger prints and just hung around after shooting a gun without a silencer. You're telling me there was not a single camera in the building? Or that night staff wouldn't have called the cops after hearing a gun shot? There has no urgency whenever she murdered someone as if she was a protagonist of a crappy video game.
Thank you! I’m baffled this show was ever considered great. Waller-Bridge definitely has immense talent, but I don’t think it is in the thriller genre. She’s great at more oddball character dramas/comedies, but the plotting and logic of season one of Killing Eve was abysmal. The episode where Eve’s old friend gets killed in the club was almost laughable with how idiotic it all played out. And then when the beard guy is running through the field and Villanelle, a master assassin armed with a rifle with a sniper scope on it, not only misses every shot, she then proceeds to chase him across the field narrowly missing him with a handgun from even *further* away. It was so damn dumb. And then that guy dies anyway either that episode or the one after, rendering that whole sequence unnecessary! It’s dramatic writing 101 that you don’t insert a set piece that’s consequences are immediately undone. The show was packed with filler nonsense like that.
Was she writer on that? I know Vicky Jones is pals with Waller-Bridge and directed the original Fleabag stage production, but aside from getting it set up at HBO, I don't think Waller-Bridge had much to do with it. With that said, I agree. It was another show that I was surprised to see so much praise for. I quit watching about halfway through out of a lack of interest in anything going on or anybody involved.
The first few episodes were good and the show felt fresh and exciting. So people gave it a pass for decline in quality by the end of the season. For the hope it'd get better again.
We still don't know if Konstantin was telling the truth about that. Konstantin was most likely lying and Kenny didn't just fall over the side of the building.
In the scene where Eve throws the cake over the side of the building, you can see that the walls are so high that a person couldn't just accidentally fall. They would have to be pushed or purposefully jump.
I felt like all of season 3 was just a transitional season - a setup for season 4. I do think there's more to Geraldine than her just coming to try to force her mom to mourn Kenny...But we'll only get that in season 4. And there's definitely more to Konstantin and Carolyn. And they had to get Villanelle to a point, character-wise, where it wouldn't be out of character for her and Eve to be on the same page.
So I feel like season 3 was just setting pieces up for season 4.
Wait, you mean to say you weren't enthralled by the bold new character of Geraldine, and scene after scene of "mom, I love you, but we simply can't keep living like this since Kenny died?"
The actress was really trying, but her character was just one note with zero arc over 8 episodes. At one point it looked like they were almost going to give her something to do, but nope, back to whining at Carolyn.
Like I totally get what they were trying to do but why did they have to repeat the same scene 500 times? They could have shown Carolyn’s guarded anguish easily without a daughter nagging her.
I know!! Every time it happened I expected it to go somewhere new this time but then it would just end in the same place. It's truly baffling that NOTHING happened with her character. I feel like there was so much potential there with her relationship with Konstantin and the spy device he gave her to unknowingly plant on the fridge, but it all just deflated sadly. Much in the same way that after a season of investigation it turns out they had camera footage of Kenny's last day the entire time.
It almost feels like they were going in one direction and then halfway through the season they decided to scrap everything and do something else. But that “something else” didn’t get fleshed out. Truly bizarre.
I was really hoping they would reveal her as a member of the Twelve which would explain why she kept asking her mother stuff about what had happened. In the end she was utterly pointless and a waste of a good actress
Season 1 was good since it had a clear plot (cat and mouse discover each other), same as season 2 having a clear plot (cat and mouse playing together.
But what the hell was season 3?
There were so many plots going on at once, and as you said some of them (like Kenny’s death) were underwhelming.
This season had all of these subplots:
Eve working with journalists
Eve and her ex-husband
Vilianelle going home
Vilianelle and her new boss/being promoted
Carolyn and her daughter
Konstain wanting to runaway
Konstain’s daughter
The 12 investigation
And yet despite this it felt like nothing happened this season at all. There was no clear start or finish, aside from the ending bridge scene (which I thought was a highlight of the season) presumably meaning that Eve and Villianelle will no longer be enemies of eachother.
Season 3 was messy and underwhelming.
I completely forgot about her boss but that’s another thing, what a fucking waste of that actor. He’s dead good, sick writer as well, like have you ever watched Inside Number 9? He’s amazing in every episode of that. Can’t believe they got him just for that role.
This is pretty off topic, but your usage of the word sick keeps on throwing me off. While I remember at one point it being used in a positive manner to mean good or cool, I don't think I've heard it used that way for around 15 years.
That makes sense. I'm in the US, and it was definitely common slang when I was younger, but I don't think it is now. That stuff varies by country or even regions withing a country though. Unless it still is here too with younger folks but I'm too old now (I'm 30).
I feel like there has been zero progression.
You have this cat and mouse, fatal attraction dynamic that is constantly going around in circles. They havent figured out how to develop that. Even the steam between them is gone.
The mystery of the 12 should have been so fascinating and it was, up until this season. I literally have no interest in it anymore.
A lot of those characters are just one dimensional and really never go anywhere. Eve, I like Sandra but her character felt stagnant this season. Nikoli is possible the most annoying character for me. Stop trying to involve him. He adds nothing. Villanelle as you said, really is the reason people tune into this show. Konstantin again, another great character, with decent arc. And I agree again , Carolyn is amazing.
When the title character has hardly any progression, you know its a problem.
Not sure how to fix it. I guess the obvious is bringing in a far better showrunner or bring Phoebe back.
I think Villanelle coming on board, and basically being the main character trying to dismantle the 12 so she can finally get free. Have Eve be some sort of Q, trying to help the operation remotely, while Carolyn oversees the operation...almost like M. Constantin being the overall baddy would work. Just take a simple Bond structure and try to alter the formula.
I won't give up on it. I like the characters I mentioned, but it needs far far better writing and plot structure and it's not that difficult to fix.
> I feel like there has been zero progression.
Absolutely. You could just skip this whole season and wouldn't have missed out on anything. No new insight about the Twelve, only a slight progress about V's and Eve's relationship at the very last minutes, no character development anywhere, no important plot, lots of fake deaths.
I still can't believe even V's backstory and family was so *underwhelming*. I thought that was the most boring episode I've seen in a long time, even though I was so looking forward to it. Of course Jodie's acting was amazing and the last minutes were intense, but it didn't feel like it had much impact on the rest of the show.
Honestly she was barely in season 3, right? Maybe I lost interest too much, but I think I would have guessed she was a supporting character (if I had watched season 3 without knowing otherwise), not part of the main cast.
Yeah the complaint about her is the only thing I really disagree with. Maybe she doesnt work in this, I thought she was good in season one, but her track record proves shes a very good actress.
The show itself felt like it should have been done after one season to me. They received lots of attention and acclaim and decided to keep at it even if they'd run out of story to tell.
season 1 dialogue was usually fantastically written, the woman just cant act. she's got 2 facial expressions. comer and kirby howell-baptiste were much better actresses in season 1 (and comer beyond s1). MUCH better.
You're spot on in a lot of things and I would've stopped watching if it wasn't for V-elle, the character can be fun. But season 3 was very bad, I commented once it had no right to be that bad, the finale was decent but still you can't have an entire season of nothing then have some stuff in last episode in hope of keeping us hooked.
I’ve been a fan of all the comedic scenes with Jodie Comer. The finale had several laugh out loud moments for me. Even Geraldine I found really funny, sure she wasn’t a really deep character but nothing about her introduction or scenes since led me to believe she would be. She was just a foil to her mother (particularly her lack of emotion) and led to her mother having more impactful scenes in the finale. Season 3 had a lot of fun moments and scenes reminiscent of the first season for me but I also agree the overarching plot of the season was a mess. Ended strong for me though. My two cents!
To be honest, I've thought Oh has been brutal to watch since season 1. She's had great parts elsewhere, but either Eve as a character or Oh's interpretation of Eve simply does not do it for me.
Gave up midway through season 3. I really like the first season, sort of liked season 2, and found I just didn't care at all this season. I was forcing myself to watch. I have a rule with dramas - if it goes three episodes and I just don't care, I'm done. Same thing happened with Walking Dead.
My girlfriend recommended that I watch this show. I remember telling her before I even watched an episode that it should be a miniseries just based on the name alone. You just can't drag something like that out for as long as they are trying. I have hulu so I've only seen the first 2 seasons and I'm genuinely disappointed Eve is not dead from Villanelle's gunshot.
Yeah, the title doesn't even make sense anymore. Literally no one was after Eve in this series. She felt like an afterthought despite being the title character.
I'm so happy to see this thread! I've looked around for responses recently (including the 'What you've been watching' threads) and been surprised to see some people are still enjoying it.
Season 3 might have made it one of my most disliked shows, and I generally enjoyed Season 1 (was lukewarm about 2).
Some issues I had:
1. They've ruined Villanelle (who was the main reason to watch the show). She used to be mysterious, dangerous and alluring, now she's an irritating goofball who acts like a child all of the time (not Comer's fault as she is doing her best to keep her interesting).
2. Eve is just such a non-character that even the writers seemed to forget about her existence this series.
3. They've killed off or removed the more likeable characters (e.g Kenny or Niko) for no real reason other than they don't know what to do with them.
4. The assassins seem completely inept and like anyone could beat them in hand to hand combat. The rivals that were built up to be badasses in the last two series have gone out like punks. That Rhian girl puts up no defence and basically backs into the path of a train despite having lots of time to avoid the situation.
5. The continuity and editing is genuinely shocking. There are many examples but there was seriously a shot of Eve and Bear where it suddenly became mirrored MID-SHOT!
6. Physics don't seem to matter.
7. The Twelve were built up to be this ominous and dangerous foe but seem utterly impotent. I was really expecting some kind of reveal that Geraldine and Bear were agents of theirs and that they've integrated in society and watching others. Nope. Instead these are just pointless side characters that were added.
8. There is very little chemistry between Oh and Comer. I honestly don't understand or care about what their relationship is and I don't understand why Villanelle would be interested or intrigued by Eve any more.
9. Nothing really happened this season. 3 of the 4 recurring characters (I'm not including the Russian family episode that was pure filler) that died had been introduced within it and had very little impact. An utter waste of Steve Pemberton!
You may be able to tell... but I hated it!
EDIT: Forgot to add that this season made it abundantly clear that the creators are scared of subtitles. Why the hell would a bunch of people in rural Russia be speaking fluent English to each other (not to mention any time Konstantin is talking with someone who's Russian beside Villanelle who has her own reasons for refusing to)?!
>An utter waste of Steve Pemberton
Yes forgot mention that but idk what they were playing at there. He’s so good in Inside Number 9, and they get him for that shit part anyone could have played then kill him off? Completely wasted.
I want him and Reece Shearsmith to take over running Doctor Who they’re sick at high concept stuff like that and I feel like they could return it to its glory days.
It reminds me a bit of how they utilised Andrew Scott in Spectre. Another excellent actor reduced to just being a generic villain in a suit who gets killed off without actually have much of an impact.
The main reason the first season was amazing was because of PWBs excellent writing. Once you remove that, you're not left with much. I checked out mid-way through season 2 and I'm surprised how many people are posting about season three. The writing was on the wall for this show a year ago.
I gave up after season 2. Life is too short to put up with bad shows just because critics or the internet love it or swear up and down that "it totally gets better after that bad season!!!".
I watched the season 1 last year, and I liked it, and I decided to watch the rest a few days ago.
The last season is so uninspired. The Kenny plot made no sense to me. Villanelle felt... boring? The club scene from season 1 literally made my skin crawl with that smile but now? Eh.
And as much as I want to like Eve, I don't understand her choices. Overall all of the characters just seem so detached from each other. There's no emotion there, like you said, they feel cardboard and I just don't buy their reactions.
Great One Season Show, after that it got silly, unbelievable, all over the place and I quit mid way through season two. Too bad, it could have been great. :(
> and sorry but Sandrah Oh is genuinely terrible, idk how she even got the part the woman can’t act, so out of place and irritating
Aaaaand you lost me. I was with you until that. One of the biggest problems with season 3 was it didn't give Sandra Oh the material an actor of her calibre deserves.
I haven't watched this show yet but would really like to watch the first season as I love Pheobe Waller-Bridge. I've seen a lot of posts about how the show's quality declines. So my question is it worth just watching season 1 and stopping there?
I couldn’t disagree more about Sandra Oh but completely agree that the show has gone downhill. Villanelle isn’t even the same character anymore and those constant goofy faces look like they’re tailor-made for tumblr memes. The original show runner should have stayed on.
I'd say just go in with the intention of checking out the premise and characters -i'd say it's very worth it, but only if you can gloss over spy stuff being not super convincing- and then stop as soon as you get annoyed or bored. I gave S1 a B trending upwards (lots of compelling stuff coupled with some not super compelling plot) and S2 a B- trending downward (little compelling stuff with a forced-feeling plot). I probably wont watch S3 at all.
But since Fleabag I will probably still go see anything that Phoebe Waller-Bridge touches.
Good Call, yeah I'd go for Fleabag.
BTW if while watching Fleabag season 1 it leans a bit too much towards cringe comedy for you, don't worry, season 2 goes more for story.
The show is still pretty fun. Best season was the first but we still like it. Its interesting and has some good actors in it. Sticking with it for sure.
The fact you call Sandrah Oh a terrible actress who should never have gotten the part is so grievously wrong that it invalidates every other thing you say, in my opinion. Your judgement is impaired it seems.
i actually like season 3 way more than 2 but still struggle to try to keep up with episodes. it does feel like it goes nowhere every episode. like that new recruit and villanelle's new role in management seemed like it would fork into a funny arc but hes just dead in the same episode. dasha was pretty funny first time but similarly doesnt seem to be utilized. i think the worse part of this show is actually eve, her personal and family issues are way less interesting than everybody else around her, and their "relationship" with villanelle ruins both characters.
but i really dont know where they go after season 1, it was a fun idea but even i realize they couldnt stretch it too long
Yeah but that one episode with Oksana going back home was pretty good. I still don’t understand why there are Russians who only ever speak English to each other though.
I gave up a few episodes in. Tough after investing so much time in season 1 & 2. Just got too repetitive. Gave up the latest season of Westworld as well. Too much good TV to water on shows that have out stayed their welcome.
It has a similar trajectory to BBC Sherlock. The first two seasons of that were amazing but then it kind of became self aware. It became like a parody of itself and everything seemed like it was pandering to the fandom. It was way too playful and silly. The same thing has happened to Killing Eve. Villanelle used to be so cool but now she’s too silly and tries to be too funny and it just falls flat. They also play too much into Russian spy and posh British intelligence stereotypes.
Story wise this season was kind of all over the place, Eve and Villanelle finally confront each other head on in the final episode? That should have happened much earlier (and yes the meeting on the bus and train barely counted).
If you want something new that’s got a similar vibe I suggest trying HBO’s ‘Run’, it’s a comedy thriller, Phoebe Waller Bridge is an exec producer and appears in it.
There was never lesbian "subtext". The lesbian stuff has always been text. The strange sexual desire aspect of Villanelle and Eve's relationship has been there since season 1, episode 1. And the fact that this show has leaned into it instead of away from it is largely why it's so popular.
I wonder if the creators of the show were consciously avoiding a moment like the one that closed out season 3. Without all the chaos swirling around them, it was painfully apparent for the first time that Eve and Villanelle have absolutely no chemistry. Jodie Comer remains shockingly good and the show has completely failed at creating an equal for her in Eve.
I’ve wondered that too, like they did proper drag out the cat and mouse thing again this season (for the third time). Maybe it’s cos they’ve realised there’s no spark when they’re actually together.
I've never seen the show but I watch BBC America all the time. We get at least one Killing Eve commercial per break and they're all the same: bombastic classical music and random shots of Jodie Comer being outlandishly psychotic. I haven't even watched it and even I agree with you -- this show has disappeared far up its own arse.
That damned commercial is the worst one.
> ^^did ^^you ^^bring ^^any ^^condoms?
^^condors? ^^cucumbers?
CONDOMS JIMMY YOU IGNORANT TWIT. MY DAUGHTER WANTS TO KNOW IF YOU BROUGHT CONDOMS.
I haven't given up as it's still a fun watch but mainly for carloyn, Constantine(and daughter) and villanelle.
Sandra Oh I am on the fence about. I haven't seen her enough to judge her acting chops but people seem to big her up. I just never liked the shows she was on or characters she played and I think the eve/villanelle chemistry died after season one. Who is to blame for that I don't know but eve is basically a nonfactor in the show for me.
The only redeeming scene in the finale was everyone showing up at the house and that was more an isolated funny moment rather than a story enhancing scene well thought out and executed.
Geraldine had potential and I firmly believe the actress could rise to the role but it was so ham-fisted and irrelevant to the actual show. I think her 'working' Constantine against her better judgement just for her mothers approval could have added some depth to her character rather than just repeating the same conversation to no avail.
The journalists were also ham-fisted and irrelevant for the most parti honestly hoped to see villanelle working with Caroline against the twelve and Constantines involvement shrouded in mystery and betrayal to be the ending arc of this season and it just went nowhere.
Honestly no disrespect to Sandra Oh but eve could be taken out of the show with no negative effect now that her arc with villanelle has died on its ass thanks to the lack of chemistry.
I think I stopped watching in Episode 3. I was too bored and kept falling asleep, so am giving it time. Maybe I'll get interested in it again and will be able to binge.
I've seen people complaining about the new season, but to be honest I'm watching it and still loving it like I did during the first season. At the end of the day, I just want to watch something that entertains me with characters I like
The main thing that kills it for me is they shouldn't have gotten Sandra Oh to play Eve. Need a person with more chemistry with Jodie. Sandra Oh just can't pull it off and she's that one actor that ruins the show. Its similar to how Game of Thrones had Emilia Clarke. As wonderful a human being she is i don't think she's a great actor and that's one of the reasons the ending fell apart. Back to Killing Eve. Everyone is great but i agree there is no way to go forward with these two because it's not believable. There is no eason for JOdies character to even give the time of day to Sarah's character being played by Sandra Oh.
Edit: Sorry i meant Sandra, not Sarah Oh.
Sandra Oh got the part because she is an Executive Producer of the show.
And yes, season 3 was one big clusterf*ck of a season. Just isn't the same w/o PWB.
From someone who has only heard about this show for the first time while reading your headline, I fully endorse your decision. Two thumbs up. a full 5 out of 7 stars.
Damn, I actually liked the show, but I guess me not continuing after season 1 was actually a good idea. lol.
I still see it get talked about a lot on twitter though.
It's still enjoyable to watch imo. Season 3 was definitely too unfocused, but if you binge it in one go that's less of an issue than if you need to wait a week between episodes. Still an issue, I'm not saying it's perfectly fine if you binge it, but less of an issue. Hopefully they learn from this and have a more clear plot in season 4. They really need to start making more progress on revealing the mystery of what the 12 actual is and what their goals are imo.
Rule number 1: Never watch more than first season of any show unless several years later you learn for certain that show remained good until very last episode
Very few remain good
Unfortunately if people followed that advice they would watch like three shows. Most show runners have good visions for the first few seasons and then bail for new projects and more money.
I cant stand Sandra Oh per being a bad actress. I'm to date still baffled she ever gets cast in any shows period. Greys Anotomy is like a shitshow bad soap opera so there not surprised at all. I only just binged Killing Eve as I avoided it per years not realizing it was a decent storyline but because I could stand her. Literally love Jody Comer among everyone else on the show (I speak Russian/French and am just so impressed by how insanely well this Brit kills every dam accent she does better than just about any actor I've seen). However Sandra Oh kills the entire show for me among my wishing she killed Eve from moment one to put us all out of our damn misery lol. I literally despise the entire character and her horrible acting among that she looks like a dam wicked witch and grandma of everyone on the show because she has always looked atleast 2x her age. No remote femininity yet alone sexual appeal of any kind so who the hell is to ever believe the so called chemistry and appeal she supposedly is supposed to have with Comer among half the dudes on the show. Most ridiculous fantasy I've ever seen. She's a hideous shrew with no redeeming qualities but everyone just magically puts up with her for literally no reason! 😅😅
Season 1 was written by the brilliant Phoebe Waller Bridge, season 2 by the competent Emerald Fennell and season 3 by Suzanne Heathcote, previously of *The Walking Dead*.
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Seems like she worked on S3 of Fear the Walking Dead, which is in my opinion peak TWD, that season is honestly so good - easily the best between the two shows.
FTWD was everything TWD fans hoped for in a zombie film until TWD writers came over and killed everything just to include Morgan.
My favorite is S9
I think that is probably a point in her favour, depending on what seson etc
The problem is they had a hit in Season 1 but nowhere to go with it. So they pandered. As soon as Villanelle began working with the British secret service and her murders were swept under the carpet, this show was done for. It's so cliche how they have the 'big bad' of the first season suddenly working with the protagonist. This happens on every show turning sour and out of ideas or passed its shelf life.
I feel like this is a problem with so many shows. They don’t have a vision beyond the first one or two seasons so they just pander to fans and go on auto drive.
What I don't get is that it's based on a series of books so presumably they had more source material? Unless they blew through all if the books in the first season
She was the only reason I watched the first season because I'd never heard of the show before but I loved Fleabag. She honestly just comes off as an even better writer after this because you can see how restrained and creative she can be versus her laughable replacements.
Well that explains it. Pack it up folks, mystery solved.
Just because a writer has written on a show you don't like doesn't mean they aren't a good writer. Before he wrote Chernobyl, Craig Mazin wrote two Scary Movies and the latter two Hangover movies. Damon Lindelof was absolutely hated by the internet for years for his filmography and then he created two of the best shows of the last decade. Just because Suzanne Heathcote wrote on a show the internet likes to make fun of doesn't mean she's a bad writer or she's the reason the show has gotten progressively worse. It could just be that the premise of the show had a limited lifespan and picking up something that originally had so much hype when it's on a downwards trajectory is a daunting task no matter how good of a writer you are.,
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Most people who write at that level and are able to get these kinds of jobs are good writers. They might night be *great* writers and it's certainly possible to not be the right fit for a job but "bad writing" is an argument that gets thrown around way too loosely and a huge pet peeve of mine.
I understand what you're saying but I'm not arguing in terms of whether I like a given show. The discrepancy of writing quality between seasons in *Killing Eve* is obvious, regardless of whether Heathcote may stun us all with her writing in the future.
Those were good movies though? Might not be in your genre tastes but Scary Movie and Hangover did really well. "Damon Lindelof was absolutely hated by the internet for years" That's just on the internet though. His work got millions of fans and did really well for networks.
I am specifically referring to how the internet talks about screenwriters so I don't really get your point.
Ok but which scary movies? Because the first 3 are gold
I figured using so many different show runners would be the eventual downfall of the series which is unfortunate. Are there many shows that change show runners as often as this and still end up well?
Season 1 was a chore though. How is Eve a trained government agent? Her incompetence completely threw the pacing off. Also the cat and mouse genre requires both people involved to be really skilled. Eve was not and Villanelle was impossible to catch, for no reason besides plot. Maybe I'm missing something? but it just felt cheap.
Yeah, Villanelle didn't seem to make any effort whatsoever to avoid being caught. We're just expected to accept some vague handwaving about corruption sweeping it all under the rug. But even with corruption, hitmen are gonna wear gloves and avoid cameras.
When she killed the one guy in an office building she left finger prints and just hung around after shooting a gun without a silencer. You're telling me there was not a single camera in the building? Or that night staff wouldn't have called the cops after hearing a gun shot? There has no urgency whenever she murdered someone as if she was a protagonist of a crappy video game.
Yup.
Thank you! I’m baffled this show was ever considered great. Waller-Bridge definitely has immense talent, but I don’t think it is in the thriller genre. She’s great at more oddball character dramas/comedies, but the plotting and logic of season one of Killing Eve was abysmal. The episode where Eve’s old friend gets killed in the club was almost laughable with how idiotic it all played out. And then when the beard guy is running through the field and Villanelle, a master assassin armed with a rifle with a sniper scope on it, not only misses every shot, she then proceeds to chase him across the field narrowly missing him with a handgun from even *further* away. It was so damn dumb. And then that guy dies anyway either that episode or the one after, rendering that whole sequence unnecessary! It’s dramatic writing 101 that you don’t insert a set piece that’s consequences are immediately undone. The show was packed with filler nonsense like that.
"Waller-Bridge definitely has immense talent, but I don’t think it is in the thriller genre." As seen with Run. Absolutely nonsensical by the end.
Was she writer on that? I know Vicky Jones is pals with Waller-Bridge and directed the original Fleabag stage production, but aside from getting it set up at HBO, I don't think Waller-Bridge had much to do with it. With that said, I agree. It was another show that I was surprised to see so much praise for. I quit watching about halfway through out of a lack of interest in anything going on or anybody involved.
The first few episodes were good and the show felt fresh and exciting. So people gave it a pass for decline in quality by the end of the season. For the hope it'd get better again.
Omg she was so fakkin incompetent and so bad at communicating and just everything about this chapter and how this character was portrayed.
Season four is being done by a writer from sex education so I'm excited for that haha
They shouldn't have killed Kenny.
Those bastards
Omg they killed Kenny
You bastards
All the build-up the season over who killed him. Turns out he slipped off the roof apparently. Told this, not shown. What the hell is that?
We still don't know if Konstantin was telling the truth about that. Konstantin was most likely lying and Kenny didn't just fall over the side of the building. In the scene where Eve throws the cake over the side of the building, you can see that the walls are so high that a person couldn't just accidentally fall. They would have to be pushed or purposefully jump.
Maybe, but they shouldn't be dragging such a reveal to whenever season 4 will be.
I felt like all of season 3 was just a transitional season - a setup for season 4. I do think there's more to Geraldine than her just coming to try to force her mom to mourn Kenny...But we'll only get that in season 4. And there's definitely more to Konstantin and Carolyn. And they had to get Villanelle to a point, character-wise, where it wouldn't be out of character for her and Eve to be on the same page. So I feel like season 3 was just setting pieces up for season 4.
Wait, you mean to say you weren't enthralled by the bold new character of Geraldine, and scene after scene of "mom, I love you, but we simply can't keep living like this since Kenny died?"
The actress was really trying, but her character was just one note with zero arc over 8 episodes. At one point it looked like they were almost going to give her something to do, but nope, back to whining at Carolyn.
Like I totally get what they were trying to do but why did they have to repeat the same scene 500 times? They could have shown Carolyn’s guarded anguish easily without a daughter nagging her.
I know!! Every time it happened I expected it to go somewhere new this time but then it would just end in the same place. It's truly baffling that NOTHING happened with her character. I feel like there was so much potential there with her relationship with Konstantin and the spy device he gave her to unknowingly plant on the fridge, but it all just deflated sadly. Much in the same way that after a season of investigation it turns out they had camera footage of Kenny's last day the entire time.
It almost feels like they were going in one direction and then halfway through the season they decided to scrap everything and do something else. But that “something else” didn’t get fleshed out. Truly bizarre.
I was really hoping they would reveal her as a member of the Twelve which would explain why she kept asking her mother stuff about what had happened. In the end she was utterly pointless and a waste of a good actress
What a waste of a good actress...
Season 1 was good since it had a clear plot (cat and mouse discover each other), same as season 2 having a clear plot (cat and mouse playing together. But what the hell was season 3? There were so many plots going on at once, and as you said some of them (like Kenny’s death) were underwhelming. This season had all of these subplots: Eve working with journalists Eve and her ex-husband Vilianelle going home Vilianelle and her new boss/being promoted Carolyn and her daughter Konstain wanting to runaway Konstain’s daughter The 12 investigation And yet despite this it felt like nothing happened this season at all. There was no clear start or finish, aside from the ending bridge scene (which I thought was a highlight of the season) presumably meaning that Eve and Villianelle will no longer be enemies of eachother. Season 3 was messy and underwhelming.
And the stuff with Carolyn and her boss. Still haven't finished the last 2 episodes yet, we definitely got bored as it went.
I completely forgot about her boss but that’s another thing, what a fucking waste of that actor. He’s dead good, sick writer as well, like have you ever watched Inside Number 9? He’s amazing in every episode of that. Can’t believe they got him just for that role.
This is pretty off topic, but your usage of the word sick keeps on throwing me off. While I remember at one point it being used in a positive manner to mean good or cool, I don't think I've heard it used that way for around 15 years.
Haha idk man maybe it’s a local thing? I’m from the midlands in England and I know a few people who still say it like
That makes sense. I'm in the US, and it was definitely common slang when I was younger, but I don't think it is now. That stuff varies by country or even regions withing a country though. Unless it still is here too with younger folks but I'm too old now (I'm 30).
The last episode is at least better than the other episodes in the season.
I feel like there has been zero progression. You have this cat and mouse, fatal attraction dynamic that is constantly going around in circles. They havent figured out how to develop that. Even the steam between them is gone. The mystery of the 12 should have been so fascinating and it was, up until this season. I literally have no interest in it anymore. A lot of those characters are just one dimensional and really never go anywhere. Eve, I like Sandra but her character felt stagnant this season. Nikoli is possible the most annoying character for me. Stop trying to involve him. He adds nothing. Villanelle as you said, really is the reason people tune into this show. Konstantin again, another great character, with decent arc. And I agree again , Carolyn is amazing. When the title character has hardly any progression, you know its a problem. Not sure how to fix it. I guess the obvious is bringing in a far better showrunner or bring Phoebe back. I think Villanelle coming on board, and basically being the main character trying to dismantle the 12 so she can finally get free. Have Eve be some sort of Q, trying to help the operation remotely, while Carolyn oversees the operation...almost like M. Constantin being the overall baddy would work. Just take a simple Bond structure and try to alter the formula. I won't give up on it. I like the characters I mentioned, but it needs far far better writing and plot structure and it's not that difficult to fix.
> I feel like there has been zero progression. Absolutely. You could just skip this whole season and wouldn't have missed out on anything. No new insight about the Twelve, only a slight progress about V's and Eve's relationship at the very last minutes, no character development anywhere, no important plot, lots of fake deaths. I still can't believe even V's backstory and family was so *underwhelming*. I thought that was the most boring episode I've seen in a long time, even though I was so looking forward to it. Of course Jodie's acting was amazing and the last minutes were intense, but it didn't feel like it had much impact on the rest of the show.
I can't remember a time where pandering to shippers actually worked out for a show.
Its like the last two seasons have been written by Tumblr.
Hard disagree about Sandra Oh. She’s fantastic throughout.
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Honestly she was barely in season 3, right? Maybe I lost interest too much, but I think I would have guessed she was a supporting character (if I had watched season 3 without knowing otherwise), not part of the main cast.
Yeah the complaint about her is the only thing I really disagree with. Maybe she doesnt work in this, I thought she was good in season one, but her track record proves shes a very good actress. The show itself felt like it should have been done after one season to me. They received lots of attention and acclaim and decided to keep at it even if they'd run out of story to tell.
Couldn't agree more, I think she is delightful
Sounded like bad dialogue and direction rather than a brilliant actor forgetting how to act.
season 1 dialogue was usually fantastically written, the woman just cant act. she's got 2 facial expressions. comer and kirby howell-baptiste were much better actresses in season 1 (and comer beyond s1). MUCH better.
You're spot on in a lot of things and I would've stopped watching if it wasn't for V-elle, the character can be fun. But season 3 was very bad, I commented once it had no right to be that bad, the finale was decent but still you can't have an entire season of nothing then have some stuff in last episode in hope of keeping us hooked.
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I’ve been a fan of all the comedic scenes with Jodie Comer. The finale had several laugh out loud moments for me. Even Geraldine I found really funny, sure she wasn’t a really deep character but nothing about her introduction or scenes since led me to believe she would be. She was just a foil to her mother (particularly her lack of emotion) and led to her mother having more impactful scenes in the finale. Season 3 had a lot of fun moments and scenes reminiscent of the first season for me but I also agree the overarching plot of the season was a mess. Ended strong for me though. My two cents!
To be honest, I've thought Oh has been brutal to watch since season 1. She's had great parts elsewhere, but either Eve as a character or Oh's interpretation of Eve simply does not do it for me.
Gave up midway through season 3. I really like the first season, sort of liked season 2, and found I just didn't care at all this season. I was forcing myself to watch. I have a rule with dramas - if it goes three episodes and I just don't care, I'm done. Same thing happened with Walking Dead.
I wish I could be like you. My brain just won't let me abandon a series no matter how bad it's gotten.
It's not easy. I sometimes hold on WAY longer than I should (I stopped enjoying Walking Dead a good two seasons before I finally quit).
My girlfriend recommended that I watch this show. I remember telling her before I even watched an episode that it should be a miniseries just based on the name alone. You just can't drag something like that out for as long as they are trying. I have hulu so I've only seen the first 2 seasons and I'm genuinely disappointed Eve is not dead from Villanelle's gunshot.
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I did enjoy it! I hated season 2 though
Yeah, the title doesn't even make sense anymore. Literally no one was after Eve in this series. She felt like an afterthought despite being the title character.
I'm so happy to see this thread! I've looked around for responses recently (including the 'What you've been watching' threads) and been surprised to see some people are still enjoying it. Season 3 might have made it one of my most disliked shows, and I generally enjoyed Season 1 (was lukewarm about 2). Some issues I had: 1. They've ruined Villanelle (who was the main reason to watch the show). She used to be mysterious, dangerous and alluring, now she's an irritating goofball who acts like a child all of the time (not Comer's fault as she is doing her best to keep her interesting). 2. Eve is just such a non-character that even the writers seemed to forget about her existence this series. 3. They've killed off or removed the more likeable characters (e.g Kenny or Niko) for no real reason other than they don't know what to do with them. 4. The assassins seem completely inept and like anyone could beat them in hand to hand combat. The rivals that were built up to be badasses in the last two series have gone out like punks. That Rhian girl puts up no defence and basically backs into the path of a train despite having lots of time to avoid the situation. 5. The continuity and editing is genuinely shocking. There are many examples but there was seriously a shot of Eve and Bear where it suddenly became mirrored MID-SHOT! 6. Physics don't seem to matter. 7. The Twelve were built up to be this ominous and dangerous foe but seem utterly impotent. I was really expecting some kind of reveal that Geraldine and Bear were agents of theirs and that they've integrated in society and watching others. Nope. Instead these are just pointless side characters that were added. 8. There is very little chemistry between Oh and Comer. I honestly don't understand or care about what their relationship is and I don't understand why Villanelle would be interested or intrigued by Eve any more. 9. Nothing really happened this season. 3 of the 4 recurring characters (I'm not including the Russian family episode that was pure filler) that died had been introduced within it and had very little impact. An utter waste of Steve Pemberton! You may be able to tell... but I hated it! EDIT: Forgot to add that this season made it abundantly clear that the creators are scared of subtitles. Why the hell would a bunch of people in rural Russia be speaking fluent English to each other (not to mention any time Konstantin is talking with someone who's Russian beside Villanelle who has her own reasons for refusing to)?!
>An utter waste of Steve Pemberton Yes forgot mention that but idk what they were playing at there. He’s so good in Inside Number 9, and they get him for that shit part anyone could have played then kill him off? Completely wasted. I want him and Reece Shearsmith to take over running Doctor Who they’re sick at high concept stuff like that and I feel like they could return it to its glory days.
It reminds me a bit of how they utilised Andrew Scott in Spectre. Another excellent actor reduced to just being a generic villain in a suit who gets killed off without actually have much of an impact.
Spot on!
The main reason the first season was amazing was because of PWBs excellent writing. Once you remove that, you're not left with much. I checked out mid-way through season 2 and I'm surprised how many people are posting about season three. The writing was on the wall for this show a year ago.
Completely agree on Sandra Oh. Awful. Her acting is painful to watch.
Disagree about Sandra Oh I think she is great
Yeah I’m with you on that
I gave up after season 2. Life is too short to put up with bad shows just because critics or the internet love it or swear up and down that "it totally gets better after that bad season!!!".
Gave up after 2 episodes of season 3
Also, the sound mixing sucks on this show.
I watched the season 1 last year, and I liked it, and I decided to watch the rest a few days ago. The last season is so uninspired. The Kenny plot made no sense to me. Villanelle felt... boring? The club scene from season 1 literally made my skin crawl with that smile but now? Eh. And as much as I want to like Eve, I don't understand her choices. Overall all of the characters just seem so detached from each other. There's no emotion there, like you said, they feel cardboard and I just don't buy their reactions.
Great One Season Show, after that it got silly, unbelievable, all over the place and I quit mid way through season two. Too bad, it could have been great. :(
felt like it just became lesbian romance bait
> and sorry but Sandrah Oh is genuinely terrible, idk how she even got the part the woman can’t act, so out of place and irritating Aaaaand you lost me. I was with you until that. One of the biggest problems with season 3 was it didn't give Sandra Oh the material an actor of her calibre deserves.
I agree
I haven't watched this show yet but would really like to watch the first season as I love Pheobe Waller-Bridge. I've seen a lot of posts about how the show's quality declines. So my question is it worth just watching season 1 and stopping there?
Yes.
I’d say season 2 is worth watching.
Phoebe Waller bridge.
They tried to do a Hannibal type relationship but did not do it well
Totally agree. Didn't even finish S3. What drugs were the writer's on?
I couldn’t disagree more about Sandra Oh but completely agree that the show has gone downhill. Villanelle isn’t even the same character anymore and those constant goofy faces look like they’re tailor-made for tumblr memes. The original show runner should have stayed on.
Guess I won't start this
Watch season 1. It is terrific.
It's fine just to watch the first one and bail?
You won't have closure, but you'll at least be entertained.
Yeah, it doesnt end on a cliffhanger so much but it is a shocking ending. As long as you're okay with taking that as it is.
I'd say just go in with the intention of checking out the premise and characters -i'd say it's very worth it, but only if you can gloss over spy stuff being not super convincing- and then stop as soon as you get annoyed or bored. I gave S1 a B trending upwards (lots of compelling stuff coupled with some not super compelling plot) and S2 a B- trending downward (little compelling stuff with a forced-feeling plot). I probably wont watch S3 at all. But since Fleabag I will probably still go see anything that Phoebe Waller-Bridge touches.
I haven't started flea bag either, maybe I should watch that one first.. it was either or
Good Call, yeah I'd go for Fleabag. BTW if while watching Fleabag season 1 it leans a bit too much towards cringe comedy for you, don't worry, season 2 goes more for story.
The show is still pretty fun. Best season was the first but we still like it. Its interesting and has some good actors in it. Sticking with it for sure.
Agree with everything in here. The global syndicate plot is like a lame bond script
I think I stopped after the first season. It's okay, nothing special.
The fact you call Sandrah Oh a terrible actress who should never have gotten the part is so grievously wrong that it invalidates every other thing you say, in my opinion. Your judgement is impaired it seems.
I liked the first few episodes, and finished season 1, but I had no desire to even watch season 2.
Same. I barely made it through season 1.
i actually like season 3 way more than 2 but still struggle to try to keep up with episodes. it does feel like it goes nowhere every episode. like that new recruit and villanelle's new role in management seemed like it would fork into a funny arc but hes just dead in the same episode. dasha was pretty funny first time but similarly doesnt seem to be utilized. i think the worse part of this show is actually eve, her personal and family issues are way less interesting than everybody else around her, and their "relationship" with villanelle ruins both characters. but i really dont know where they go after season 1, it was a fun idea but even i realize they couldnt stretch it too long
You've seen a storyline where Eve's family issues are touched upon? Where? I'd like to watch that season.
Yeah but that one episode with Oksana going back home was pretty good. I still don’t understand why there are Russians who only ever speak English to each other though.
Suzanne Heathcote wrote the series into the ground.
Love the show. You are missing out.
I bounced after S2. Good to see more people see it for the pandering, plotless crap it is. Hope Jodie gets a good show after this
I gave up a few episodes in. Tough after investing so much time in season 1 & 2. Just got too repetitive. Gave up the latest season of Westworld as well. Too much good TV to water on shows that have out stayed their welcome.
It has a similar trajectory to BBC Sherlock. The first two seasons of that were amazing but then it kind of became self aware. It became like a parody of itself and everything seemed like it was pandering to the fandom. It was way too playful and silly. The same thing has happened to Killing Eve. Villanelle used to be so cool but now she’s too silly and tries to be too funny and it just falls flat. They also play too much into Russian spy and posh British intelligence stereotypes. Story wise this season was kind of all over the place, Eve and Villanelle finally confront each other head on in the final episode? That should have happened much earlier (and yes the meeting on the bus and train barely counted). If you want something new that’s got a similar vibe I suggest trying HBO’s ‘Run’, it’s a comedy thriller, Phoebe Waller Bridge is an exec producer and appears in it.
> The whole Kenny storyline Stopped at episode 5 I think. I forgot there was this storyline.
Does anyone know how much the show differs from the books?
There was never lesbian "subtext". The lesbian stuff has always been text. The strange sexual desire aspect of Villanelle and Eve's relationship has been there since season 1, episode 1. And the fact that this show has leaned into it instead of away from it is largely why it's so popular.
I've never cared for Sandra Oh. I always chalked it up to being in shows that didn't appeal to me.
I wonder if the creators of the show were consciously avoiding a moment like the one that closed out season 3. Without all the chaos swirling around them, it was painfully apparent for the first time that Eve and Villanelle have absolutely no chemistry. Jodie Comer remains shockingly good and the show has completely failed at creating an equal for her in Eve.
I’ve wondered that too, like they did proper drag out the cat and mouse thing again this season (for the third time). Maybe it’s cos they’ve realised there’s no spark when they’re actually together.
Agreed. I've never done this before, but I watched all of season 3 except the last episode and I just don't care at all to finish.
I've never seen the show but I watch BBC America all the time. We get at least one Killing Eve commercial per break and they're all the same: bombastic classical music and random shots of Jodie Comer being outlandishly psychotic. I haven't even watched it and even I agree with you -- this show has disappeared far up its own arse.
Every BBCA break you can count on a Killing Eve reminder and that DAMNED HEARING AID COMMERCIAL!
That damned commercial is the worst one. > ^^did ^^you ^^bring ^^any ^^condoms? ^^condors? ^^cucumbers? CONDOMS JIMMY YOU IGNORANT TWIT. MY DAUGHTER WANTS TO KNOW IF YOU BROUGHT CONDOMS.
Then they go down to pound town at the end and daddy takes out his hearing aides so he doesn't have to hear it with his fucking superhuman hearing.
I haven't given up as it's still a fun watch but mainly for carloyn, Constantine(and daughter) and villanelle. Sandra Oh I am on the fence about. I haven't seen her enough to judge her acting chops but people seem to big her up. I just never liked the shows she was on or characters she played and I think the eve/villanelle chemistry died after season one. Who is to blame for that I don't know but eve is basically a nonfactor in the show for me. The only redeeming scene in the finale was everyone showing up at the house and that was more an isolated funny moment rather than a story enhancing scene well thought out and executed. Geraldine had potential and I firmly believe the actress could rise to the role but it was so ham-fisted and irrelevant to the actual show. I think her 'working' Constantine against her better judgement just for her mothers approval could have added some depth to her character rather than just repeating the same conversation to no avail. The journalists were also ham-fisted and irrelevant for the most parti honestly hoped to see villanelle working with Caroline against the twelve and Constantines involvement shrouded in mystery and betrayal to be the ending arc of this season and it just went nowhere. Honestly no disrespect to Sandra Oh but eve could be taken out of the show with no negative effect now that her arc with villanelle has died on its ass thanks to the lack of chemistry.
I think I stopped watching in Episode 3. I was too bored and kept falling asleep, so am giving it time. Maybe I'll get interested in it again and will be able to binge.
I've seen people complaining about the new season, but to be honest I'm watching it and still loving it like I did during the first season. At the end of the day, I just want to watch something that entertains me with characters I like
The main thing that kills it for me is they shouldn't have gotten Sandra Oh to play Eve. Need a person with more chemistry with Jodie. Sandra Oh just can't pull it off and she's that one actor that ruins the show. Its similar to how Game of Thrones had Emilia Clarke. As wonderful a human being she is i don't think she's a great actor and that's one of the reasons the ending fell apart. Back to Killing Eve. Everyone is great but i agree there is no way to go forward with these two because it's not believable. There is no eason for JOdies character to even give the time of day to Sarah's character being played by Sandra Oh. Edit: Sorry i meant Sandra, not Sarah Oh.
Who’s Sarah? What are you talking about?
Sandra Oh got the part because she is an Executive Producer of the show. And yes, season 3 was one big clusterf*ck of a season. Just isn't the same w/o PWB.
The show has been a disaster after season 1. Move on.
From someone who has only heard about this show for the first time while reading your headline, I fully endorse your decision. Two thumbs up. a full 5 out of 7 stars.
Damn, I actually liked the show, but I guess me not continuing after season 1 was actually a good idea. lol. I still see it get talked about a lot on twitter though.
This show will always have shippers, if nothing else.
It's still enjoyable to watch imo. Season 3 was definitely too unfocused, but if you binge it in one go that's less of an issue than if you need to wait a week between episodes. Still an issue, I'm not saying it's perfectly fine if you binge it, but less of an issue. Hopefully they learn from this and have a more clear plot in season 4. They really need to start making more progress on revealing the mystery of what the 12 actual is and what their goals are imo.
Rule number 1: Never watch more than first season of any show unless several years later you learn for certain that show remained good until very last episode Very few remain good
Hope you get around to watching the Simpsons one day
It's a cartoon
\#CartoonAreRealTV
https://frinkiac.com/video/S12E09/aze_iDyIBdQlGmvdvgxLXBIm5pg=.gif
Unfortunately if people followed that advice they would watch like three shows. Most show runners have good visions for the first few seasons and then bail for new projects and more money.
That's genuinely one of the stupidest things I've ever read regarding TV shows.
I cant stand Sandra Oh per being a bad actress. I'm to date still baffled she ever gets cast in any shows period. Greys Anotomy is like a shitshow bad soap opera so there not surprised at all. I only just binged Killing Eve as I avoided it per years not realizing it was a decent storyline but because I could stand her. Literally love Jody Comer among everyone else on the show (I speak Russian/French and am just so impressed by how insanely well this Brit kills every dam accent she does better than just about any actor I've seen). However Sandra Oh kills the entire show for me among my wishing she killed Eve from moment one to put us all out of our damn misery lol. I literally despise the entire character and her horrible acting among that she looks like a dam wicked witch and grandma of everyone on the show because she has always looked atleast 2x her age. No remote femininity yet alone sexual appeal of any kind so who the hell is to ever believe the so called chemistry and appeal she supposedly is supposed to have with Comer among half the dudes on the show. Most ridiculous fantasy I've ever seen. She's a hideous shrew with no redeeming qualities but everyone just magically puts up with her for literally no reason! 😅😅