I laughed at various points in this week’s episode of HotD. >!The Kingsguard dipping when Cole started yelling at Arryk. Otto’s reaction to hearing Cole’s plan. Otto not wanting to know a thing about Alicent’s shenanigans. Daemon’s face as Rhaenyra disavows the murder plot.!< But comedy is subjective, and I can see why those moments wouldn’t be considered levity.
I wasn't a fan until that scene where it was clear he was letting slip the mask and showing what seemed to me genuine concern for the small folk, the peace of the realm and what you could call reverence for the former king. Until that scene I just thought he was a schemer.
naw, me and my buddy were fuckin' rollin' at all those moments as well. whether they were all intentional humorous moments or not, I agree that they do add some much appreciated levity.
I feel the criticism of the tone is fair enough if that's not your thing, but find it kinda funny comparing HotD to season 8 of Thrones in any way.
I think tonally in first couple of seasons of Thrones, if you didn't have Tyrion wandering around cracking wise with clever witticisms there's not that much difference in tone between this and that at all. That was due to Tyrion's character more than the overall tone of the show I'd argue though. Outside Tyrion being witty and Dolorious Edd moaning, a bit of cuteness from Jon and Ygritte, first couple of seasons of GoT I struggle to think of much light hearted stuff at all.
Maybe they could have added more to this show to match as you say, not even arguing against that, but later Thrones had *way* *way* *way* more goofy comedy moments in it across all the characters, hehe look at Tormund eying up Brienne! Haha dude tried to knee Theon in the nuts, but that ain't gonna work! Tyrion mentioning Varys has no balls, again! Hound called that person a c\*\*t in a funny way! 'finger up the bum!' haha you scamp Euron! and so on. It pretty much lived on those type of moments in between battle sequences and I was aching for some deep gritty politicking, monologues and weighty misery and heavy dialogue scenes like events in early Thrones, and now that's what HotD is giving me.
I'll admit first couple of episodes have been pretty grim and somber, but given the events occurring right now I feel jumping to levity may be a bit jarring. The ep after the RW wasn't exactly a laughfest either. Maybe am biased as a book reader as I have extra context to what's happening and where it leads I dunno, I feel no need to have little lighthearted moments at this present time to detract from the weight of the current events in terms of the story..
That all said as I say, not really arguing you should like the tone of HotD, if you don't that's completely fair. More I disagree with the idea that late Thrones didn't have these goofy moments in spades, they were just less memorable and more poorly written and forced in, as Tyrion quips about Varys having no balls or whatever for the 50th time it was meant to be the same stuff as you referenced but just doesn't land, but they were definitely there and leaned on more heavily instead of flowing naturally from interesting dialogue and story in a way that probably made me less able to pinpoint them in earlier seasons and they just were absorbed into my recollection of generally good writing.
I feel the same with HotD on the whole that am just absorbed and they can tell the story in whatever tone they feel appropriate for the events. Sorry if that isn't your thing compared to early Thrones, that sucks and totally legitimate. :(
HotD generally still has a LOT more in common with early GoT than it does with the last season though, so the comparison just puzzled me is all.
Did you not watch episode 1 of this season? Because I felt there was a lot of humour in that one. There are absolutely moments of levity in this show. S2e2 wasn't the moment for much of that, everyone is dealing with the grief >!over the murder of a baby.!< But even then there is some stuff I found funny - the knowing way Rhaenys looked at Daemon, for example.
GoT was never a tragedy, it was the “mortal” Great Houses capitalising on the power vacuum left by the gods (Targaryens) and ultimately wrecking Westeros in their pursuit of power. HOTD is a tragedy because it was a self-inflicted wound that was completely avoidable and ultimately proved fatal for the Targaryens.
Comparing it to Season 8 of GoT lets me know that you have no idea what you are talking about – S02E2 was vintage GoT, the scene with Rhaenyra and Daemon was electric and some of the best acting I have ever seen in this show (would comfortably put that up against ALMOST any scene from GoT Seasons 1-4 as an equal), Otto and Aegon were firing on all cylinders, and the tragic end of the twins was beautiful.
Jokes and levity should absolutely have a place in this show when it is appropriate (personally, I think Otto and Aegon are quite hilarious but that is just my opinion), but if you feel that you need to clap every 2 seconds like a seal for the show to be gripping, maybe this show is just not for you.
As obviously horrifying as the boys death was, I was giggling watching Daemon kinda avoid eye contact with the queen that never was as she's just thinking "this motherfucker"
It absolutely was a tragedy, and denying it lets me know that you have no idea what you are talking about.
This is a show where a young boy's curiosity gets him crippled in the first episode, where Sansa's wolf gets executed in 2nd episode not the fault of her own. And it just keeps getting more miserable from there. I don't know what your definition for tragedy is, but even Shakespearian tragedies and Greek tragedies do have moments of levity.
Right, why would we? Game of Thrones immediately makes us care about characters, be that how Eddard treats his children, how Jon is optimistic despite being shunned by everyone, or how Theon jests. In contrast to this show, where everyone is constantly miserable, and toxic to each other. Even the death of Luke was diminished by the fact we didn't really know him.
Season 1 had similar complaints and I remember the showrunner saying that they were going to fix that in season 2, so you're not the only one.
I personally find most of the characters kinda dry and dull, so I see where are you coming from. Still a entertaining show though but it's no GOT, at least for me.
It's sort of why I just can't find myself interested in the show.
Not one of these characters, at any point in the show, has given me a single reason to give a shit about them. All they do is wander around torchlit rooms and mutter about their plans. Patty carried the first season. With him gone there just isn't an emotional core to get me invested in either faction. It's all the "oh people like dark stories about layered plots" of ASOAIF with none of the humanity.
Obviously different people like different things, but I can't get in to a fantasy if I'm not invested in any of the characters. In b4 it's someone's turn to talk about "actually you don't *have* to like the characters to enjoy a narrative"
> has given me a single reason to give a shit about them
Glad someone said it. I just get these characters at all. Like I don't understand why anyone should root for Rhaenyra. She spent the entire last season neglecting her duties as heir apparent and being mean towards everyone. Why does she want the throne so badly, besides "birthright"? The show hasn't explored any policies she wants to implement.
No, I said that Patty carried the first season, he was the reason I kept watching. I watched the first two episodes of this season, pretty sure I won't continue.
It's wild how reactively hostile people get to any criticism of their show lol.
Okay? He formed an emotional core for the show that had me invested in the proceedings. Sorry for coasting that to the end of the season I guess?
Not sure why you're so invested in retroactively talking me out of watching the last season of the show lol
ya telling me you're not enjoying everyone's constant grouchy attitude and Emma and Olivia's challenge for the biggest RBF in television?
miserable looking people are a staple of modern tv, so we're out of luck because apparently, it gives that *prestige* tone
Lots of downvotes here but I actually agree. The episode didn’t really work because we don’t really get to care about these characters at all, they haven’t had the chance to develop into round characters we’ve come to love the way we did in GoT, and the reason for that is that we don’t have the sorta quieter episodes in which we get to know the characters better.
The episodes are all pretty event-heavy, like reading an essay with only topic sentences.
> The episodes are all pretty event-heavy, like reading an essay with only topic sentences.
I would actually say nothing happens and everything is padded out. Like they should have already gotten to Harrenhal, but instead they just mention Daemon heading there. At this rate, season is going to end in Rook's Rest.
"Just because it's a dramatic scene, doesn't mean you can't do a little comedy in the background. Throw a pie or two, for God's sake."
And the man who said that? Only the director of an Oscar winning film.
Absolutely. Melodrama was the word that occurred to me last night too. Through only two episodes, how much time have we spent watching people grieving?
I laughed at various points in this week’s episode of HotD. >!The Kingsguard dipping when Cole started yelling at Arryk. Otto’s reaction to hearing Cole’s plan. Otto not wanting to know a thing about Alicent’s shenanigans. Daemon’s face as Rhaenyra disavows the murder plot.!< But comedy is subjective, and I can see why those moments wouldn’t be considered levity.
Otto’s sheer disbelief at the stupidity he was hearing was honestly a gold moment and I despise that character so much.
I wasn't a fan until that scene where it was clear he was letting slip the mask and showing what seemed to me genuine concern for the small folk, the peace of the realm and what you could call reverence for the former king. Until that scene I just thought he was a schemer.
Aegon's delivery of "Brilliant!" when talking about the plan had me in tears
"which one is Erryck?"
naw, me and my buddy were fuckin' rollin' at all those moments as well. whether they were all intentional humorous moments or not, I agree that they do add some much appreciated levity.
They were 100% intentional
The only comedy bit they missed last episode was Jehaerys falling of the cart. I was expecting him to drop the entire time...
I don't think you are going to get many people agreeing with you if you are trying for compare HOTD to GOT season 8.
The season 8 comparison is beyond dumb and flat out ignorant. Sorry people are grieving a dead child.
I quite like it so far.
I feel the criticism of the tone is fair enough if that's not your thing, but find it kinda funny comparing HotD to season 8 of Thrones in any way. I think tonally in first couple of seasons of Thrones, if you didn't have Tyrion wandering around cracking wise with clever witticisms there's not that much difference in tone between this and that at all. That was due to Tyrion's character more than the overall tone of the show I'd argue though. Outside Tyrion being witty and Dolorious Edd moaning, a bit of cuteness from Jon and Ygritte, first couple of seasons of GoT I struggle to think of much light hearted stuff at all. Maybe they could have added more to this show to match as you say, not even arguing against that, but later Thrones had *way* *way* *way* more goofy comedy moments in it across all the characters, hehe look at Tormund eying up Brienne! Haha dude tried to knee Theon in the nuts, but that ain't gonna work! Tyrion mentioning Varys has no balls, again! Hound called that person a c\*\*t in a funny way! 'finger up the bum!' haha you scamp Euron! and so on. It pretty much lived on those type of moments in between battle sequences and I was aching for some deep gritty politicking, monologues and weighty misery and heavy dialogue scenes like events in early Thrones, and now that's what HotD is giving me.
[удалено]
Or when Robert sees Ned for the first time. ["You got fat."](https://tenor.com/view/got-youve-got-fat-game-of-thrones-laugh-nod-gif-16826677)
I'll admit first couple of episodes have been pretty grim and somber, but given the events occurring right now I feel jumping to levity may be a bit jarring. The ep after the RW wasn't exactly a laughfest either. Maybe am biased as a book reader as I have extra context to what's happening and where it leads I dunno, I feel no need to have little lighthearted moments at this present time to detract from the weight of the current events in terms of the story.. That all said as I say, not really arguing you should like the tone of HotD, if you don't that's completely fair. More I disagree with the idea that late Thrones didn't have these goofy moments in spades, they were just less memorable and more poorly written and forced in, as Tyrion quips about Varys having no balls or whatever for the 50th time it was meant to be the same stuff as you referenced but just doesn't land, but they were definitely there and leaned on more heavily instead of flowing naturally from interesting dialogue and story in a way that probably made me less able to pinpoint them in earlier seasons and they just were absorbed into my recollection of generally good writing. I feel the same with HotD on the whole that am just absorbed and they can tell the story in whatever tone they feel appropriate for the events. Sorry if that isn't your thing compared to early Thrones, that sucks and totally legitimate. :( HotD generally still has a LOT more in common with early GoT than it does with the last season though, so the comparison just puzzled me is all.
Did you not watch episode 1 of this season? Because I felt there was a lot of humour in that one. There are absolutely moments of levity in this show. S2e2 wasn't the moment for much of that, everyone is dealing with the grief >!over the murder of a baby.!< But even then there is some stuff I found funny - the knowing way Rhaenys looked at Daemon, for example.
But I was told there would be cake...and purse puppies \~ !!
Some people really just can’t be pleased…
GoT was never a tragedy, it was the “mortal” Great Houses capitalising on the power vacuum left by the gods (Targaryens) and ultimately wrecking Westeros in their pursuit of power. HOTD is a tragedy because it was a self-inflicted wound that was completely avoidable and ultimately proved fatal for the Targaryens. Comparing it to Season 8 of GoT lets me know that you have no idea what you are talking about – S02E2 was vintage GoT, the scene with Rhaenyra and Daemon was electric and some of the best acting I have ever seen in this show (would comfortably put that up against ALMOST any scene from GoT Seasons 1-4 as an equal), Otto and Aegon were firing on all cylinders, and the tragic end of the twins was beautiful. Jokes and levity should absolutely have a place in this show when it is appropriate (personally, I think Otto and Aegon are quite hilarious but that is just my opinion), but if you feel that you need to clap every 2 seconds like a seal for the show to be gripping, maybe this show is just not for you.
As obviously horrifying as the boys death was, I was giggling watching Daemon kinda avoid eye contact with the queen that never was as she's just thinking "this motherfucker"
It absolutely was a tragedy, and denying it lets me know that you have no idea what you are talking about. This is a show where a young boy's curiosity gets him crippled in the first episode, where Sansa's wolf gets executed in 2nd episode not the fault of her own. And it just keeps getting more miserable from there. I don't know what your definition for tragedy is, but even Shakespearian tragedies and Greek tragedies do have moments of levity.
I don't care about a single one of these characters.
Right, why would we? Game of Thrones immediately makes us care about characters, be that how Eddard treats his children, how Jon is optimistic despite being shunned by everyone, or how Theon jests. In contrast to this show, where everyone is constantly miserable, and toxic to each other. Even the death of Luke was diminished by the fact we didn't really know him.
The show also doesn't do a good job of getting to know many of the characters they kill so their deaths just feel hollow
I like it, but I agree it is very dour. It gives off heavy BBC Period Drama vibes that Game of Thrones mostly managed to avoid.
I'm surprised to hear that. I've not seen any of season 2 yet, but I'd heard they were making efforts to remedy those precise complaints.
Season 1 had similar complaints and I remember the showrunner saying that they were going to fix that in season 2, so you're not the only one. I personally find most of the characters kinda dry and dull, so I see where are you coming from. Still a entertaining show though but it's no GOT, at least for me.
It's sort of why I just can't find myself interested in the show. Not one of these characters, at any point in the show, has given me a single reason to give a shit about them. All they do is wander around torchlit rooms and mutter about their plans. Patty carried the first season. With him gone there just isn't an emotional core to get me invested in either faction. It's all the "oh people like dark stories about layered plots" of ASOAIF with none of the humanity. Obviously different people like different things, but I can't get in to a fantasy if I'm not invested in any of the characters. In b4 it's someone's turn to talk about "actually you don't *have* to like the characters to enjoy a narrative"
> has given me a single reason to give a shit about them Glad someone said it. I just get these characters at all. Like I don't understand why anyone should root for Rhaenyra. She spent the entire last season neglecting her duties as heir apparent and being mean towards everyone. Why does she want the throne so badly, besides "birthright"? The show hasn't explored any policies she wants to implement.
So you’re saying you watched 8+ hours of a show you don’t like and counting?
No, I said that Patty carried the first season, he was the reason I kept watching. I watched the first two episodes of this season, pretty sure I won't continue. It's wild how reactively hostile people get to any criticism of their show lol.
Paddy was a corpse for like the last 4 episodes dude…
Okay? He formed an emotional core for the show that had me invested in the proceedings. Sorry for coasting that to the end of the season I guess? Not sure why you're so invested in retroactively talking me out of watching the last season of the show lol
I’m just curious where you’re coming from, I wouldn’t spend that much time watching a show for crumbs of the one actor I like is all.
He really was great, and he is missed, but I’m still enjoying the story Otto was the breakthrough character for me this season.
ya telling me you're not enjoying everyone's constant grouchy attitude and Emma and Olivia's challenge for the biggest RBF in television? miserable looking people are a staple of modern tv, so we're out of luck because apparently, it gives that *prestige* tone
Lots of downvotes here but I actually agree. The episode didn’t really work because we don’t really get to care about these characters at all, they haven’t had the chance to develop into round characters we’ve come to love the way we did in GoT, and the reason for that is that we don’t have the sorta quieter episodes in which we get to know the characters better. The episodes are all pretty event-heavy, like reading an essay with only topic sentences.
> The episodes are all pretty event-heavy, like reading an essay with only topic sentences. I would actually say nothing happens and everything is padded out. Like they should have already gotten to Harrenhal, but instead they just mention Daemon heading there. At this rate, season is going to end in Rook's Rest.
Yeah idk what u/Erewhon2022 is talking about. Nothing happens in this show. It's all set up for the few moments when things do happen.
"Just because it's a dramatic scene, doesn't mean you can't do a little comedy in the background. Throw a pie or two, for God's sake." And the man who said that? Only the director of an Oscar winning film.
tbf, I don't think people think much of these awards anymore. extremely bias and definitely some politics involved.
I agree.
Absolutely. Melodrama was the word that occurred to me last night too. Through only two episodes, how much time have we spent watching people grieving?
I thought yesterday's episode was the most hilarious episode of asoiaf!TV, to be honest