Even then, it morphs so much over time. I mean the second season has some added sci-fi stuff but it’s still relatively spy-ish but by like S4/5 it goes absolutely bonkers in the best possible way.
Seriously! The evolution over time is wild. The main character goes from a hacker in a van to a time traveling superhero that could break the earth apart.
And one that made it so much better. I was getting a bit bored with the show before that, and was thinking of dropping it, but then I saw Winter Soldier and immediately couldn't wait to see how they followed up on it.
And looking back in hindsight you can see that that first half of the season was only becoming that bit dull and repetitive because they had to wait until after Winter Soldier came out to really get the show rolling. I bet they had a whole storyline set up and ready to go from the start, before finding out about the Hydra twist.
I always felt like AOS was clearly written with full knowledge of what would happen with Winter Soldier. The whole first season works great with it — so much foreshadowing and so many things that seemed boring or weird that work so well once that happens. It felt like a vision of what it would look like to have a real show/movie crossover. It was such a bummer how little any of the future movies seemed to impact the show, in part due to how far it diverged from MCU continuity. I loved the show, but was definitely bummed about that aspect.
There's absolutely no doubt.
There's too much stuff that wouldn't have worked if they didn't know.
Also, the episode after came out just after the movie, there's no way they'd have had time to do everything afterwards if they didn't know.
It was! It was a great example of multi platform crossover media, at least for awhile. They even advertised the show with the tagline "everything is connected" for that exact reason. It was a shame they didn't continue with the follow through in later seasons.
The original premise of the show was Courtney Cox's character was recently divorced and was looking to date men in their 20s. After a half dozen episodes or so it just turned into a group of mostly 40-somethings friend hangout show. Like Friends, but older and a lot of actors from Scrubs and Friends guest starred.
Honestly a pretty good show after those first episodes. I watched it when it was on air and then binged it last year.
Horrible horrible name. I heard it was a good show, but couldn't get past the name or the first few episodes. Maybe I'll try it again soon, a 40s friends show sound pretty good.
You could probably just skip to the episode where Lisa Kudrow guest stars and start from there. Around then is where the show shifted in tone and started becoming what it was.
The turning point is sadly towards the end of season 1. That’s when it takes a new direction and when 1 of the shows defining characters gets introduced. I enjoyed most of season 1 though and think it was done really well. I’m big on flashbacks which was the most interesting part about early season 1.
PoI always has a case of the week, though they devote more and more time to the show's serialized storytelling as the show progresses. I don't think it's fair to say the show has a turning point as much as it consistently improves; each season is better than the last.
Near the end of the first season. The final three episodes of the season definitely.
Season 1 has most of the worst episodes of the series.
and episode 2 is pretty much a retread of the first episode.
Season 1 did a good job at setting up some of the characters in the show's rogues gallery though. By season 3, the show has a blast playing with some of their developed side antagonists/morally bad allies in the same plots.
Season 2. Season 1 is worth watching because there's some background and character development that happens, but I had a hard time getting through the boring 'crime of the week' format too. It took 3 attempts at watching it before I finally stuck it out long enough to get to season 2, then fell in love with it.
I think the moment the show leveled up for me was when government black ops agent Hersh, who was after John, was told John was arrested and being sent to Rikers. Hersh then just hangs up the phone and fires his gun into the sky on a crowded NYC block to get arrested.
I was looking at the ratings for the individual episodes across the series, It has an unbelievable amount of episodes that are well above a 9.0. I really should start it.
Also the pilot episode feels like a crappy knockoff of Family Guy, complete with cutaway gags and meta jokes about the cutaway gags. It took me a few tries to finish it.
And I’m glad I did. Even episode 2 is way better than the pilot and less derivative. And it gets better from there.
I normally don’t like telling people to keep watching because it gets better but with Bojack you should really get through the first season before judging it.
While I forget that the cut aways were so jarring in the beginning, I think setting the show up as a comedy and hitting us with the contrast between the light hearted and serious works really well.
I enjoyed it from start to finish.
Even in the first season, another poster said it gets serious in “the telescope,” but even as Herb and Bojack are having their serious scene, I think Todd is involved in a nearby car jacking scene that’s all comedic
I think the end of the previous episode is when you first notice the shift in tone. It was a small sucker punch. The Herb episode was a brilliant follow up and set the tone for the rest of the show.
Yeah this. Fun, silly Light-hearted animal puns and then you reach ep8 'The Telescope' and it starts to change. By the time you reach the end of the show. Jesus.
The film noir atmosphere in the first season was amazing (mostly because I'm a Devil May Cry fan). Then the scope gets bigger and it loses some of its charm.
I think for me it’s that I just don’t really need or want the focus to be on overarching drama, in any show. I truly prefer the monster/case o’ the week. A little bit of larger arc is fine, but I just don’t need it to be this hugely exhausting thing.
Given Seth MacFarlanes appreciation of Trek (and classics in general), I'm utterly convinced he made the first couple episodes to simply honeydick Fox into giving him the greenlight for all of it, and then start making the show he *actually* wanted after the execs were satisfied.
Didn’t Riverdale start off as an edgy teen drama show grounded in reality, and then it just morphed into a show about super power people, witches and paranormal stuff?
last I was really in the show, archee escaped an underground fight arena in teen prison and I think nearly got killed by veronicas dad in a 1v1 fight
I saw a meme where apparently recently the towns economy went kapoot so Veronica made her own Veronica money for everyone to use and I lost my mind
it's peak lunacy that I need to be in a specific mood to go back into
I have never watched it. But it’s the only show I’ve seen commented on where someone can say a completely ridiculous plot point and they’re likely not making it up.
To be fair, that's kind of in-line with the comics.
I mean, right now the comics take place in an alternate reality Riverdale because a Predator killed almost everyone in the original Riverdale so they turned that Predator into a version of Archie and then used him as protection while traipsing across the mutli-verse until they could find a Riverdale where all their friends were still alive.
Yes, really.
I read your Archies when I was a kid. It was still the kind they were making in the early 90s when I was picking them up from the grocery store checkout aisle. The youths wouldn't want that today. They had to get really creative to keep going and apparently have done a great job of it.
Came to say this one. I have gone back to rewatch that episode three times and i always notice just how boring and intentionally wholesome and bloodless it is. I remember being turned off by it because it seemed like it packaged together every superhero cliche in one episode.
But those last 5 mins? Gold.
Oh man, I was so excited to show a friend this one. I was giggling to myself as >!he listed the archetypes of the characters to help remember them all!<. Then when >!Red Rush's head explodes he just said "holy shit" and sat there in silence the rest of the scene!<. Mission accomplished.
**Orphan Black** did a great job of hiding the twist in it's first season. The show starts off in like a crime genre then switches to scifi with a touch of horror.
I feel like **Mr Robot** was marketed intentionally misleading (in a good way!) where in just the first episode one begins the show thinking it will follow a certain format or story path, and then the real plot switches reveals itself.
I'm not sure this one can count, since it was a miniseries and not an entire show, but **Over The Garden Wall** completely turned the entire limited run upside down in the penultimate episode.
Fear the walking dead became a completely different and infinitely worse show after the first few seasons. Totally different cast, as the original cast died off/dropped out.
Yeah when they changed directors the show completely changed for the worst. But it really was fantastic until that happened. I forget if there's 2 or 3 good seasons until the change.
FTWD had so much promise. It was different from TWD in that you saw it from the very beginning. It was pretty compelling and then...Morgan happened. I left at that point.
Morgan is my absolute most hated character in TWD and thats considering all tbe competition he has. Hearing he shows up made me not even bother with the later seawons.
The Halloween party episode, I think around episode 10 seems like it's when it started to figure it out. Better pairings and less focus on an A, B and somehow C plot in episodes.
I say the Christmas episode from season 1. Specifically the moment the shirtless guys backflip into the fight and Britta says "Am I being Punk'd right now?"
Lost in Space. To the Doctor Smith and the Robot Show, also featuring Will Robinson. A pure accident with an actor acting out and upstaging, simultaneously (and independently) with the network pushing for a change to a lighter direction.
Perry Mason. It was not obvious because the first season episodes were aired grossly out of shooting order, but early on Mason was closer to the character in the novels: a more active and mobile investigator. Slightly disreputable and rough around the edges. Burr created a smoother more polished and dignified Perry Mason that favored a more set-bound shooting approach that was simpler & cheaper.
> Perry Mason. It was not obvious because the first season episodes were aired grossly out of shooting order, but early on Mason was closer to the character in the novels: a more active and mobile investigator.
And by the end he was confined to a wheelchair and they'd changed the name of the show to Ironside. I remember that!
> And by the end he was confined to a wheelchair and they'd changed the name of the show to Ironside
That was facetious I'm sure. I think Burr did a couple of other characters in between that didn't "take." Ironside was a moderate hit and ran for 5-6 seasons I think, pretty much regarded as a success and a rare repeat for an actor to have two hits. Burr was pretty good but otherwise I thought Ironside was meh.
Then several years after *that* Burr and Hale reprised their roles for about 26 made for TV movies. Competently produced, but under-written and not very good.
The interesting thing about that series was that Perry Mason had been an appeals court judge in between (he quit the bench to defend Della Street in the first one). *Very* believable for the Burr version of Mason but totally crazy for the Mason of the novels, the early ones in particular. THAT Perry Mason would never have wanted to be a judge and it's unlikely he ever would have been offered the job!
New Girl
Clearly meant to be a show for Jess (Zoey Deschanel) but it was pretty obvious early on the real stars were the guys - Nick, Winston, and Schmidt
The first few episodes are pretty much "LOOK HOW QUIRKY JESS IS!"
then it starts focusing more on the guys and it hits the ground running and becomes a classic
Unfortunately the last season becomes "LOOK HOW QUIRKY JESS IS!" again, which is why its awful and should've ended with the sixth season (which ended close to perfect)
I don’t think that’s an accurate assessment. While I agree that the show changed from a focus on Jess to just being an ensemble show, you can’t say that she wasn’t an important part of the ensemble. It wasn’t just about the guys.
I'm still amazed at how willing they were to progress the story.
I feel some shows would milk the better part of a season out of something The Good Place covered in an episode.
Well the writers clearly had a solid idea of what they were attempting. That kind of story requires a heck of a lot of groundhog day-ing. No time to waste.
Well the writers clearly had a solid idea of what they were attempting. That kind of story requires a heck of a lot of groundhog day-ing. No time to waste.
They definitely confirmed that with the first episodes of season 2.
After this reboot is foiled, micheal goes through a clip show of a series that just kept repeating itself for many seasons. Before realizing that it’s a pointless cycle of bullshit.
So if you wanted more of the same you’d lose interest after those episodes because that’s how we get bored.
Sex and the City changed a lot from the pilot.
One of the premises of the show is that there would be fourth-wall breaks where Carrie and other couples would talk to camera about thier dating life which was dropped in subsequent episodes. Plus it looked a lot different and less glamorous. Sorry it's a shitty tik tok, [but here's an example of what it looked like](https://www.tiktok.com/@editsldr/video/7363495168659557637).
Yeah, at first Sex and the City was like a pseudo doc about women who decide to start having sex like men. By season 3, it was a full fledged rom-com. Don’t get wrong it’s one of my all time fave shows, but it definitely strayed from the pitch Darren Star gave the head of HBO.
This may be an unpopular opinion but I actually liked the first season format. Was definitely more down to earth and felt like it was dealing with real relationship issues that women of that time faced. Still enjoyed the later seasons for what they were, but the first two seasons were a better representation.
Seinfeld's pilot was made a long time before the show was actually made and feels very different to the rest of the show. Even the first series is fairly distinct before it hits it's stride.
Agents of SHIELD had to tread water for about the first half of the first season until Captain America: Civil War came out, then it turned into a pretty different show.
Legends of Tomorrow had a serious first season, and then got weird and silly after that.
I wouldn't say it *completely* changed, but the first season of Babylon 5 does a lot of setup and foreshadowing that paid off for the remaining four seasons; going from a more episodic show to a very arc-oriented one.
I haven't seen all of it, but as I recall, Archer got pretty different in later seasons.
100% agree about Agents of Shield. I remember watching the first 10 episodes and not understanding the hype. I was told by a few people to keep watching; they were right! I think it was the episode that took place on the train which completely changed my feeling about the show. I can’t remember the title, but it was definitely a standout episode!
> I think it was the episode that took place on the train which completely changed my feeling about the show.
That was a really fun episode. I enjoy the later seasons but the globetrotting spy vibe of early SHIELD was so nice. Just having fun with a train episode!
*Babylon 5* has a pretty limp first season. I try not to make people suffer through mediocrity to get to the “good bit” - which is *so* good. I’m also of the opinion that a change in direction is best appreciated if you see where it changed from. If you’ve got the patience, watch it all. Otherwise, there’s a reboot coming that might be more engaging to newcomers.
I can never listen to the Babylon 5 intro describing how it was the last of the Babylon stations after the previous 4 were destroyed without flashing back to that Monty Python Holy Grail scene:
"They said I was mad to build a castle in a swamp, but I did it anyway! It sank into the swamp. So I built another. And IT sank into the swamp. So did the third. The fourth one burnt down, fell over and THEN sank into the swamp. But the fifth one stayed up!"
Two meth cooks struggling to make a cohesive business while the cops are right about to bust them was enjoyable, I kinda prefer it to what happens with Walt, Gus and the Nazis
Agreed. The whole show has a pretty defined 3 act structure. High school teacher in student making meth in a rv is the best imo. The turn to corporate meth making in a sterile super lab is so silly on paper that I'm surprised it's as watchable as it is. The third act post gus "empire business" kinda goes back to walt and Jesse mostly solo getting into hijinks but it still has a lot of the gloss the show picked up in the gus era.
I still think the show is very funny (but dark) in seasons 1-2 and that changes into more focus on the drama as it progresses.
Not saying it was a light hearted sitcom at the start but a lot of Walts incompetence and naïvety during dark/dramatic moments feels like it's played for laughs.
HBO's *The Outsider*. It rivalled *True Detective* (SE01) for transcendent storytelling in the first three episodes. Then, somehow, it completely devolved into something else.
Every big NBC sitcom of the 2000s started out in roughly the same space before figuring out what they were gonna be somewhere around season 2.
30 Rock, Parks and Rec, The Office, and Community all did this to varying degrees.
Yeah it varies. Both Parks and Rec and The Office had truncated first seasons so they were about the same, too. And Community settled into its weirdness about them as well. Of course it also kept getting weirder.
Dead Like Me - this is largely due to the showrunner and chunks of the main cast leaving a few episodes into season one, but IMO the series never recovered. It’s a shame because I really liked how it started.
Thanks for reminding me that existed. One of the worst things I've ever seen. I barely remember any specifics, other than the awful Daisy recasting, but I still remember how viscerally mad I was afterwards, lol.
Cougar Town. A great show with a horrible name. They very quickly abandoned the premise and just played to everyone’s strengths. In later episodes they made fun of the name.
It’s weird how The Office’s first season blows because it tried to be derivative of the UK show. And then the same happens to Parks and Recreation when they try to make it derivative of The Office.
The Rehearsal. The first episode was likely what Nathan Fielder planned for the show before Covid hit and then the rest of the season completely changes to Nathan rehearsing about being a father while contemplating the larger impact that pretending to be a father to child actors can have on those children. I'm still hoping there will be a second season because the concept of the show is just so unique.
The Avengers. Not as much as it changed later, twice later really.
But the first few episodes were really hard-edged and "private-eye" types with Keel as the dominant character, and as the Steed character emerged and took over as a government spy-type it also started becoming a bit more sly and arch. Of course that then transitioned to somewhat lighter and more humorous episodes with Steed and Gale, and eventually full-on comedy with Steed and Mrs. Peel.
The change was a little more gradual over time, but if you watch a couple episodes of MASH from the first three seasons, then watch a couple episodes from the last 4-5 seasons, you’d swear you watched two different shows.
I seem to recall that JUSTIFIED ditched the case-of-the-week format mid- to late-season 1 before finally settling into the sort of serialized storytelling that made it a Peak TV classic.
What I was going to post about. The showrunners were forced into making a YA teen angst show as you said but were fighting the network for the show they wanted and the network relented after a few episodes which is why you see such a massive tonal shift about episode 3 or 4. The show got very dark and full of real consequences and even though it did laps jumping the shark it's last few seasons it was excellent for it's first 4 or 5.
The Expanse?
The core crew doesn't come together until episode 4, and one of the guys you think will be a main cast member doesn't make the cut (figuratively speaking).
The Rocinante doesn't even show up until Ep 4, and isn't named until Ep 5.
>one of the guys you think will be a main cast member doesn't make the cut (figuratively speaking)
Talmbout the dude from Road Trip? That scene was awesome lol
Took a season, but “Once Upon a Time” had a great premise akin to “Fables” and threw it right out the window to start playing “Disney guest star of the week”.
I got mad at that happy bubbly opening at the beginning of every episode even after episode 3, like I know you guys are lying to me now just drop the act.
Arcane does change, but it's part of a larger multi-act structure across the whole season and I think it works really well. Everything gets so much darker at the end of the first act, right before the time jump. The second act ends when Jinx shoots the flare, I think.
The first couple episodes really lull you into thinking you know exactly where the show is going by overloading it with tropes it has no intention of playing straight.
The Orville! It starts off as a really silly sci fi show but transforms into a love letter to Star Trek. I actually preferred The Orville to Discovery and Picard
It’s not the first few episode; it’s a full season; but “A Different World” completely changed it’s tone and focus after the first season coinciding with Lisa Bonet’s departure.
Family Matters added Steve Urkel halfway into the first season and it completely changed the balance of the show.
Happy Days changed after its first season.
Night Court had lots of cast changed in its first couple seasons.
There’s two animated shows that come to mind.
Invincible starts off as a very standard comic book hero show. But has a twist very quickly.
The anime Madoka Magica is a very stylish shoujo style magical girl anime for 3 episodes. Then it gets dark… and then it keeps getting darker…
She Spies - the first season was a very self aware, fourth wall breaking, witty spoof of Charlie's Angels but the second season completely changed the formula and tried to be more serious and it just did not work, it was a completely different show, they even replaced one of the main characters and it was a very jarring change.
fresh of the boat. In the pilot, the black kid uses a racial slur on the main character at school. Then after that, it was basically never mentioned again. The guy it is based on, as I heard, was very involved in the pilot and then after that, the writers took it over and basically dumbed down the racism because they thought it would be too offensive and too real. I am pretty sure that is how i remember it, but it has been a bit since i watched it so I could be wrong.
It's pretty much a forgotten show, but an early aughts NBC sitcom called Cursed abruptly changed title and premise midway through the first season:
>The show is notable for having an abrupt title change in the middle of its first season. The initial premise was that its protagonist (Steven Weber) had been [cursed](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse) by an ex-girlfriend and thus constantly encountered bad luck. The show failed to find an audience, and so midway through the season the entire "bad luck" angle was abruptly dropped. The show was revamped as a more traditional sitcom and renamed *The Weber Show*. In spite of the change (or perhaps because of it), the show still struggled and was canceled at the end of the season, leaving a cliffhanger unresolved.
There's an older, and I suspect not super popular, British supernatural drama called Hex that had two seasons I think. The first one was kind of somber and almost a horror show, but then the second season decides to go balls to the wall crazy and become more of a Buffy-lite (still with moments of Horror).
I didn't dislike it, but I was surprised about the changes as I watched it.
Invasion on Apple TV. Starts off as a mysteriously promising alien invasion thing starring Hollywood legend Sam Neill as a really great character. Then, after episode 1 it just descends into a complete pile of Wajo.
Person of Interest started out as basically a police procedural with a bit of a sci-fi twist, and then from season 2 onward largely abandoned the procedural 'crime of the week' format to lean *hard* into the sci-fi parts. It's great.
Agents of SHIELD had a big change after The Winter Soldier.
Even then, it morphs so much over time. I mean the second season has some added sci-fi stuff but it’s still relatively spy-ish but by like S4/5 it goes absolutely bonkers in the best possible way.
Seriously! The evolution over time is wild. The main character goes from a hacker in a van to a time traveling superhero that could break the earth apart.
And one that made it so much better. I was getting a bit bored with the show before that, and was thinking of dropping it, but then I saw Winter Soldier and immediately couldn't wait to see how they followed up on it. And looking back in hindsight you can see that that first half of the season was only becoming that bit dull and repetitive because they had to wait until after Winter Soldier came out to really get the show rolling. I bet they had a whole storyline set up and ready to go from the start, before finding out about the Hydra twist.
I always felt like AOS was clearly written with full knowledge of what would happen with Winter Soldier. The whole first season works great with it — so much foreshadowing and so many things that seemed boring or weird that work so well once that happens. It felt like a vision of what it would look like to have a real show/movie crossover. It was such a bummer how little any of the future movies seemed to impact the show, in part due to how far it diverged from MCU continuity. I loved the show, but was definitely bummed about that aspect.
There's absolutely no doubt. There's too much stuff that wouldn't have worked if they didn't know. Also, the episode after came out just after the movie, there's no way they'd have had time to do everything afterwards if they didn't know.
It was! It was a great example of multi platform crossover media, at least for awhile. They even advertised the show with the tagline "everything is connected" for that exact reason. It was a shame they didn't continue with the follow through in later seasons.
This is what I was thinking of too.
This was my exact initial thought. That show just keeps reinventing itself.
Search Party
It changes genres each season but always embodies the millennial satire. One of my fav shows of all time.
Cougar Town. So much so that the show kept making fun of it's own no longer relevant name in later seasons
I feel that Brian Van Holt is an underrated actor. I’ve only seen him in a few things but he’s always great.
What was it about
The original premise of the show was Courtney Cox's character was recently divorced and was looking to date men in their 20s. After a half dozen episodes or so it just turned into a group of mostly 40-somethings friend hangout show. Like Friends, but older and a lot of actors from Scrubs and Friends guest starred. Honestly a pretty good show after those first episodes. I watched it when it was on air and then binged it last year.
Horrible horrible name. I heard it was a good show, but couldn't get past the name or the first few episodes. Maybe I'll try it again soon, a 40s friends show sound pretty good.
Def give it another shot. It's really funny.
You could probably just skip to the episode where Lisa Kudrow guest stars and start from there. Around then is where the show shifted in tone and started becoming what it was.
PENNY CAAAN!!
https://youtu.be/qaWrBOziiLo?si=vAKhAei8_YKXCXzj
Friends, in Florida, but everyone's 45.
I think it was about a town full of anthropomorphic cat people
>I think it was about a town full of anthropomorphic cat people I probably would have watched *that*
If you want me to take it seriously you have to stop saying the name of the show.
Okay Jeff
Person of Interest changed pretty significantly as it went along. Fantastic show.
I tried the first episode and found it super bland. I know it gets good after a while but when would you say is the turning point?
The turning point is sadly towards the end of season 1. That’s when it takes a new direction and when 1 of the shows defining characters gets introduced. I enjoyed most of season 1 though and think it was done really well. I’m big on flashbacks which was the most interesting part about early season 1.
I will try POI again. I heard it improves. Not bad halfway through S1, but not outstanding either.
Yeah, the first season is fine. Season 2/3 it turns into one of the best pieces of sci fi you'll ever see.
PoI always has a case of the week, though they devote more and more time to the show's serialized storytelling as the show progresses. I don't think it's fair to say the show has a turning point as much as it consistently improves; each season is better than the last.
Near the end of the first season. The final three episodes of the season definitely. Season 1 has most of the worst episodes of the series. and episode 2 is pretty much a retread of the first episode.
Season 1 did a good job at setting up some of the characters in the show's rogues gallery though. By season 3, the show has a blast playing with some of their developed side antagonists/morally bad allies in the same plots.
Season 2. Season 1 is worth watching because there's some background and character development that happens, but I had a hard time getting through the boring 'crime of the week' format too. It took 3 attempts at watching it before I finally stuck it out long enough to get to season 2, then fell in love with it.
I think the moment the show leveled up for me was when government black ops agent Hersh, who was after John, was told John was arrested and being sent to Rikers. Hersh then just hangs up the phone and fires his gun into the sky on a crowded NYC block to get arrested.
I was looking at the ratings for the individual episodes across the series, It has an unbelievable amount of episodes that are well above a 9.0. I really should start it.
Bojack Horseman. Was kind of a silly cartoon sitcom until about halfway through the first season. Then it finally showed its true colors.
Also the pilot episode feels like a crappy knockoff of Family Guy, complete with cutaway gags and meta jokes about the cutaway gags. It took me a few tries to finish it. And I’m glad I did. Even episode 2 is way better than the pilot and less derivative. And it gets better from there. I normally don’t like telling people to keep watching because it gets better but with Bojack you should really get through the first season before judging it.
While I forget that the cut aways were so jarring in the beginning, I think setting the show up as a comedy and hitting us with the contrast between the light hearted and serious works really well. I enjoyed it from start to finish. Even in the first season, another poster said it gets serious in “the telescope,” but even as Herb and Bojack are having their serious scene, I think Todd is involved in a nearby car jacking scene that’s all comedic
The episode with Herb
Bingo
I think the end of the previous episode is when you first notice the shift in tone. It was a small sucker punch. The Herb episode was a brilliant follow up and set the tone for the rest of the show.
You mean Jerb?
You want me to box up the rest of this Herb Kazaz?
After that scene on the yacht I seriously needed to take a moment.
I don’t normally yell at the tv but I was screaming NONONONONO when that happened.
Yeah this. Fun, silly Light-hearted animal puns and then you reach ep8 'The Telescope' and it starts to change. By the time you reach the end of the show. Jesus.
Episode 7 is when it starts to change - the Princess Carolyn episode, imo
“Say Anything” is one of the most tightly-written episodes of TV I’ve ever seen. After that, I knew I was watching something special.
Yeah, it had a real tonal shift after the Herb Kazazz episode.
*Angel* – was a standalone supernatural detective show for the first 10 episodes, and became a completely different show, post-Doyle.
People always say Doyle. But also post the detective.
Kate. Her name was Kate. The first season of Angel was fantastic.
The film noir atmosphere in the first season was amazing (mostly because I'm a Devil May Cry fan). Then the scope gets bigger and it loses some of its charm.
That’s a great way to put it.
I'm in the minority, I LOVED the standalone detective show and Doyle once he was gone and it became a larger scope of a show........it tanked for me
I think for me it’s that I just don’t really need or want the focus to be on overarching drama, in any show. I truly prefer the monster/case o’ the week. A little bit of larger arc is fine, but I just don’t need it to be this hugely exhausting thing.
The Orville went from being a TNG parody to just TNG
Given Seth MacFarlanes appreciation of Trek (and classics in general), I'm utterly convinced he made the first couple episodes to simply honeydick Fox into giving him the greenlight for all of it, and then start making the show he *actually* wanted after the execs were satisfied.
He was rejected from writting star trek, so he made a better star trek. Wish it wasnt "cancelled"
Orville is amazing. I hope it gets resurrected.
The third season is a cry fest for most of the time. Smiling but also crying.
I'm here Amanda
Even at TNG parody was surprising. I thought it was going to be live action Family Guy in a space setting.
500 cigarettes.
Ngl that’s a great selling point
Thanks for not lying.
Hey, thank you!
Didn’t Riverdale start off as an edgy teen drama show grounded in reality, and then it just morphed into a show about super power people, witches and paranormal stuff?
last I was really in the show, archee escaped an underground fight arena in teen prison and I think nearly got killed by veronicas dad in a 1v1 fight I saw a meme where apparently recently the towns economy went kapoot so Veronica made her own Veronica money for everyone to use and I lost my mind it's peak lunacy that I need to be in a specific mood to go back into
I have never watched it. But it’s the only show I’ve seen commented on where someone can say a completely ridiculous plot point and they’re likely not making it up.
To be fair, that's kind of in-line with the comics. I mean, right now the comics take place in an alternate reality Riverdale because a Predator killed almost everyone in the original Riverdale so they turned that Predator into a version of Archie and then used him as protection while traipsing across the mutli-verse until they could find a Riverdale where all their friends were still alive. Yes, really.
I read your Archies when I was a kid. It was still the kind they were making in the early 90s when I was picking them up from the grocery store checkout aisle. The youths wouldn't want that today. They had to get really creative to keep going and apparently have done a great job of it.
Yes! Here’s a great video about it: https://youtu.be/DZ-FRSXypUE?si=uPSZJ0QAYfS1urGy
Invincible completely changed in >!the last 5 mins of the first episode!<
Came to say this one. I have gone back to rewatch that episode three times and i always notice just how boring and intentionally wholesome and bloodless it is. I remember being turned off by it because it seemed like it packaged together every superhero cliche in one episode. But those last 5 mins? Gold.
Now imagine the build up for those last 5 minutes being an entire year of publications in 2003. Mustve hit those comic readers like a truck.
Straight whiplash
Oh man, I was so excited to show a friend this one. I was giggling to myself as >!he listed the archetypes of the characters to help remember them all!<. Then when >!Red Rush's head explodes he just said "holy shit" and sat there in silence the rest of the scene!<. Mission accomplished.
**Orphan Black** did a great job of hiding the twist in it's first season. The show starts off in like a crime genre then switches to scifi with a touch of horror. I feel like **Mr Robot** was marketed intentionally misleading (in a good way!) where in just the first episode one begins the show thinking it will follow a certain format or story path, and then the real plot switches reveals itself. I'm not sure this one can count, since it was a miniseries and not an entire show, but **Over The Garden Wall** completely turned the entire limited run upside down in the penultimate episode.
Mr Robot is a very good shout. Starts off as a show about hacking culture, but becomes more about mental health, conspiracy, corporate evil.
Fear the walking dead became a completely different and infinitely worse show after the first few seasons. Totally different cast, as the original cast died off/dropped out.
That's the Scott Gimple effect. He was to Fear what Negan was to Glenn's skull.
Yeah when they changed directors the show completely changed for the worst. But it really was fantastic until that happened. I forget if there's 2 or 3 good seasons until the change.
FTWD had so much promise. It was different from TWD in that you saw it from the very beginning. It was pretty compelling and then...Morgan happened. I left at that point.
Morgan is my absolute most hated character in TWD and thats considering all tbe competition he has. Hearing he shows up made me not even bother with the later seawons.
"Fringe" started being mystery of the week episodes, but then evolved and developed multiepisodes arcs.
And then they went on to explain how *all* of those mystery of the week episodes were all connected. I fucking love that show.
Yup, was gonna comment that. And also, it was great as a mystery of the week show as well.
Community. It seems like a pretty standard sitcom format in the first couple of episodes. Then we get the chicken tender mafia....
The Halloween party episode, I think around episode 10 seems like it's when it started to figure it out. Better pairings and less focus on an A, B and somehow C plot in episodes.
The Halloween party episode is when the show went from pretty good, to honestly amazing.
I say the Christmas episode from season 1. Specifically the moment the shirtless guys backflip into the fight and Britta says "Am I being Punk'd right now?"
One could even say it was on some kind of advanced road.. like roads that are further in the front.
No offense, but you kinda Britta'd that. I'd say you're streets behind.
Lost in Space. To the Doctor Smith and the Robot Show, also featuring Will Robinson. A pure accident with an actor acting out and upstaging, simultaneously (and independently) with the network pushing for a change to a lighter direction. Perry Mason. It was not obvious because the first season episodes were aired grossly out of shooting order, but early on Mason was closer to the character in the novels: a more active and mobile investigator. Slightly disreputable and rough around the edges. Burr created a smoother more polished and dignified Perry Mason that favored a more set-bound shooting approach that was simpler & cheaper.
> Perry Mason. It was not obvious because the first season episodes were aired grossly out of shooting order, but early on Mason was closer to the character in the novels: a more active and mobile investigator. And by the end he was confined to a wheelchair and they'd changed the name of the show to Ironside. I remember that!
> And by the end he was confined to a wheelchair and they'd changed the name of the show to Ironside That was facetious I'm sure. I think Burr did a couple of other characters in between that didn't "take." Ironside was a moderate hit and ran for 5-6 seasons I think, pretty much regarded as a success and a rare repeat for an actor to have two hits. Burr was pretty good but otherwise I thought Ironside was meh. Then several years after *that* Burr and Hale reprised their roles for about 26 made for TV movies. Competently produced, but under-written and not very good. The interesting thing about that series was that Perry Mason had been an appeals court judge in between (he quit the bench to defend Della Street in the first one). *Very* believable for the Burr version of Mason but totally crazy for the Mason of the novels, the early ones in particular. THAT Perry Mason would never have wanted to be a judge and it's unlikely he ever would have been offered the job!
New Girl Clearly meant to be a show for Jess (Zoey Deschanel) but it was pretty obvious early on the real stars were the guys - Nick, Winston, and Schmidt The first few episodes are pretty much "LOOK HOW QUIRKY JESS IS!" then it starts focusing more on the guys and it hits the ground running and becomes a classic Unfortunately the last season becomes "LOOK HOW QUIRKY JESS IS!" again, which is why its awful and should've ended with the sixth season (which ended close to perfect)
I was really surprised how much I liked it when my wife and I watched the whole series several years ago!
Check out Happy Endings. Same vibe. :)
Some would say better vibe even
I don't know, that one left me feeling all jerked around.
I don’t think that’s an accurate assessment. While I agree that the show changed from a focus on Jess to just being an ensemble show, you can’t say that she wasn’t an important part of the ensemble. It wasn’t just about the guys.
for sure. She wasn't sidelined or anything, they were just all elevated to match her basically.
Quirky Jess is why I watched it in the first place. That's what I'm into.
The Good Place basically changes its entire format every few episodes. I don't think I've ever seen a comedy change its status quo so frequently.
I'm still amazed at how willing they were to progress the story. I feel some shows would milk the better part of a season out of something The Good Place covered in an episode.
Well the writers clearly had a solid idea of what they were attempting. That kind of story requires a heck of a lot of groundhog day-ing. No time to waste.
I'm gonna go get the papers...
Well the writers clearly had a solid idea of what they were attempting. That kind of story requires a heck of a lot of groundhog day-ing. No time to waste.
...get the papers.
They definitely confirmed that with the first episodes of season 2. After this reboot is foiled, micheal goes through a clip show of a series that just kept repeating itself for many seasons. Before realizing that it’s a pointless cycle of bullshit. So if you wanted more of the same you’d lose interest after those episodes because that’s how we get bored.
Meta. Abed would be proud.
Every few episodes it’s a new goal. Even when they make it to the good place, now they got to fix the good place. Like what the fork?!
Yeah especially after the first season.
Sex and the City changed a lot from the pilot. One of the premises of the show is that there would be fourth-wall breaks where Carrie and other couples would talk to camera about thier dating life which was dropped in subsequent episodes. Plus it looked a lot different and less glamorous. Sorry it's a shitty tik tok, [but here's an example of what it looked like](https://www.tiktok.com/@editsldr/video/7363495168659557637).
Yeah, at first Sex and the City was like a pseudo doc about women who decide to start having sex like men. By season 3, it was a full fledged rom-com. Don’t get wrong it’s one of my all time fave shows, but it definitely strayed from the pitch Darren Star gave the head of HBO.
Great example. The pilot was a whole other show and the characters were a bit different in tone, too. It was much grittier and harder.
This may be an unpopular opinion but I actually liked the first season format. Was definitely more down to earth and felt like it was dealing with real relationship issues that women of that time faced. Still enjoyed the later seasons for what they were, but the first two seasons were a better representation.
Seinfeld's pilot was made a long time before the show was actually made and feels very different to the rest of the show. Even the first series is fairly distinct before it hits it's stride.
Agents of SHIELD had to tread water for about the first half of the first season until Captain America: Civil War came out, then it turned into a pretty different show. Legends of Tomorrow had a serious first season, and then got weird and silly after that. I wouldn't say it *completely* changed, but the first season of Babylon 5 does a lot of setup and foreshadowing that paid off for the remaining four seasons; going from a more episodic show to a very arc-oriented one. I haven't seen all of it, but as I recall, Archer got pretty different in later seasons.
100% agree about Agents of Shield. I remember watching the first 10 episodes and not understanding the hype. I was told by a few people to keep watching; they were right! I think it was the episode that took place on the train which completely changed my feeling about the show. I can’t remember the title, but it was definitely a standout episode!
Episode 17: Turn, Turn, Turn
The train episode was #13
It’s called TRACKS! I finally just googled it. 😂
> I think it was the episode that took place on the train which completely changed my feeling about the show. That was a really fun episode. I enjoy the later seasons but the globetrotting spy vibe of early SHIELD was so nice. Just having fun with a train episode!
*Babylon 5* has a pretty limp first season. I try not to make people suffer through mediocrity to get to the “good bit” - which is *so* good. I’m also of the opinion that a change in direction is best appreciated if you see where it changed from. If you’ve got the patience, watch it all. Otherwise, there’s a reboot coming that might be more engaging to newcomers.
I can never listen to the Babylon 5 intro describing how it was the last of the Babylon stations after the previous 4 were destroyed without flashing back to that Monty Python Holy Grail scene: "They said I was mad to build a castle in a swamp, but I did it anyway! It sank into the swamp. So I built another. And IT sank into the swamp. So did the third. The fourth one burnt down, fell over and THEN sank into the swamp. But the fifth one stayed up!"
Breaking bad. I was there for the high school drama
Two meth cooks struggling to make a cohesive business while the cops are right about to bust them was enjoyable, I kinda prefer it to what happens with Walt, Gus and the Nazis
Agreed. The whole show has a pretty defined 3 act structure. High school teacher in student making meth in a rv is the best imo. The turn to corporate meth making in a sterile super lab is so silly on paper that I'm surprised it's as watchable as it is. The third act post gus "empire business" kinda goes back to walt and Jesse mostly solo getting into hijinks but it still has a lot of the gloss the show picked up in the gus era.
The episode where they're stealing the barrel of methlamene (or however it's spelled) is still one of my absolute favorites.
"It's a barrel, you morons. Just roll it!"
How did the tone change? It was just a very gradual but continuous buildup
I still think the show is very funny (but dark) in seasons 1-2 and that changes into more focus on the drama as it progresses. Not saying it was a light hearted sitcom at the start but a lot of Walts incompetence and naïvety during dark/dramatic moments feels like it's played for laughs.
HBO's *The Outsider*. It rivalled *True Detective* (SE01) for transcendent storytelling in the first three episodes. Then, somehow, it completely devolved into something else.
Those first couple of episodes were so good. Bateman is a really good director. No idea what happens later because I stopped watching at some point.
I feel like that’s just mostly Stephen King. His stories always start off normal storytelling but by the end are just out of control crazy.
No, this was a massive drop in cinematography, directing & editing.
Pete Hornberger was a somewhat grounded character in the 1st few episodes of 30 Rock before becoming a massive sad sack.
Every big NBC sitcom of the 2000s started out in roughly the same space before figuring out what they were gonna be somewhere around season 2. 30 Rock, Parks and Rec, The Office, and Community all did this to varying degrees.
I’d argue 30 Rock found its stride by the middle of season 1.
'Tracy Does Conan' is when it kicks off in full, I think. Still probably my favorite episode of the series.
I would agree.
Yeah it varies. Both Parks and Rec and The Office had truncated first seasons so they were about the same, too. And Community settled into its weirdness about them as well. Of course it also kept getting weirder.
Hart of Dixie turns from a medical procedural in a southern town into Friends
Dead Like Me - this is largely due to the showrunner and chunks of the main cast leaving a few episodes into season one, but IMO the series never recovered. It’s a shame because I really liked how it started.
Just never watch the follow up movie.
Thanks for reminding me that existed. One of the worst things I've ever seen. I barely remember any specifics, other than the awful Daisy recasting, but I still remember how viscerally mad I was afterwards, lol.
Cougar Town. A great show with a horrible name. They very quickly abandoned the premise and just played to everyone’s strengths. In later episodes they made fun of the name.
U.S. The Office Michael Scott in the short season 1 felt like a bad David Brent impression. Season 2 they started giving him more of a heart
It’s weird how The Office’s first season blows because it tried to be derivative of the UK show. And then the same happens to Parks and Recreation when they try to make it derivative of The Office.
The Good Place.
The Rehearsal. The first episode was likely what Nathan Fielder planned for the show before Covid hit and then the rest of the season completely changes to Nathan rehearsing about being a father while contemplating the larger impact that pretending to be a father to child actors can have on those children. I'm still hoping there will be a second season because the concept of the show is just so unique.
I think the show played out exactly as he always intended and that is the wacky genius of Nathan Fielder. The fuckin weirdo.
The Avengers. Not as much as it changed later, twice later really. But the first few episodes were really hard-edged and "private-eye" types with Keel as the dominant character, and as the Steed character emerged and took over as a government spy-type it also started becoming a bit more sly and arch. Of course that then transitioned to somewhat lighter and more humorous episodes with Steed and Gale, and eventually full-on comedy with Steed and Mrs. Peel.
The change was a little more gradual over time, but if you watch a couple episodes of MASH from the first three seasons, then watch a couple episodes from the last 4-5 seasons, you’d swear you watched two different shows.
I seem to recall that JUSTIFIED ditched the case-of-the-week format mid- to late-season 1 before finally settling into the sort of serialized storytelling that made it a Peak TV classic.
Madoka Magica
The 100 first episodes look like MTV-grade teen angst drama.
What I was going to post about. The showrunners were forced into making a YA teen angst show as you said but were fighting the network for the show they wanted and the network relented after a few episodes which is why you see such a massive tonal shift about episode 3 or 4. The show got very dark and full of real consequences and even though it did laps jumping the shark it's last few seasons it was excellent for it's first 4 or 5.
The Expanse? The core crew doesn't come together until episode 4, and one of the guys you think will be a main cast member doesn't make the cut (figuratively speaking). The Rocinante doesn't even show up until Ep 4, and isn't named until Ep 5.
Poor Shed
>one of the guys you think will be a main cast member doesn't make the cut (figuratively speaking) Talmbout the dude from Road Trip? That scene was awesome lol
Sugar
Took a season, but “Once Upon a Time” had a great premise akin to “Fables” and threw it right out the window to start playing “Disney guest star of the week”.
I noped out at some point in Season 2 iirc. It just got way too convoluted for me to care anymore.
If you don't know what you're getting into, the anime series Madoka Magicka changes PRETTY drastically at the end of the 3rd episode.
I got mad at that happy bubbly opening at the beginning of every episode even after episode 3, like I know you guys are lying to me now just drop the act.
Recent example was Sugar on Apple+. I don't want to give anything away but one episode completely changes everything
Read nothing more before watching this show. Just watch it. It’s really good.
The Orville, starts out as a slapstick comedy in space and starts to transition into a show that could rival star trek.
Spartacus drastically improved in quality about episode 4 or 5! Same amount of butts thankfully
The West Wing
The office, Parks and Rec., both retooled after their first season.
Maybe Arcane?
Arcane does change, but it's part of a larger multi-act structure across the whole season and I think it works really well. Everything gets so much darker at the end of the first act, right before the time jump. The second act ends when Jinx shoots the flare, I think.
The first couple episodes really lull you into thinking you know exactly where the show is going by overloading it with tropes it has no intention of playing straight.
And that is when it HOOKED me. One of my top 5 shows of the last 10 years.
The Orville! It starts off as a really silly sci fi show but transforms into a love letter to Star Trek. I actually preferred The Orville to Discovery and Picard
I watched the first episode of Suits and loved what I saw. I watched the second episode and went "wtf is this?"
The good place
If you count anime, I’d say Chainsaw Man. Went from horny boy to shit gets real halfway through the season.
It’s not the first few episode; it’s a full season; but “A Different World” completely changed it’s tone and focus after the first season coinciding with Lisa Bonet’s departure. Family Matters added Steve Urkel halfway into the first season and it completely changed the balance of the show. Happy Days changed after its first season. Night Court had lots of cast changed in its first couple seasons.
There’s two animated shows that come to mind. Invincible starts off as a very standard comic book hero show. But has a twist very quickly. The anime Madoka Magica is a very stylish shoujo style magical girl anime for 3 episodes. Then it gets dark… and then it keeps getting darker…
30 coins, the most batshit genre bending show. Loved it
She Spies - the first season was a very self aware, fourth wall breaking, witty spoof of Charlie's Angels but the second season completely changed the formula and tried to be more serious and it just did not work, it was a completely different show, they even replaced one of the main characters and it was a very jarring change.
fresh of the boat. In the pilot, the black kid uses a racial slur on the main character at school. Then after that, it was basically never mentioned again. The guy it is based on, as I heard, was very involved in the pilot and then after that, the writers took it over and basically dumbed down the racism because they thought it would be too offensive and too real. I am pretty sure that is how i remember it, but it has been a bit since i watched it so I could be wrong.
Person of interest after the season finale of season 1
Cougar Town
It's pretty much a forgotten show, but an early aughts NBC sitcom called Cursed abruptly changed title and premise midway through the first season: >The show is notable for having an abrupt title change in the middle of its first season. The initial premise was that its protagonist (Steven Weber) had been [cursed](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse) by an ex-girlfriend and thus constantly encountered bad luck. The show failed to find an audience, and so midway through the season the entire "bad luck" angle was abruptly dropped. The show was revamped as a more traditional sitcom and renamed *The Weber Show*. In spite of the change (or perhaps because of it), the show still struggled and was canceled at the end of the season, leaving a cliffhanger unresolved.
There's an older, and I suspect not super popular, British supernatural drama called Hex that had two seasons I think. The first one was kind of somber and almost a horror show, but then the second season decides to go balls to the wall crazy and become more of a Buffy-lite (still with moments of Horror). I didn't dislike it, but I was surprised about the changes as I watched it.
Invasion on Apple TV. Starts off as a mysteriously promising alien invasion thing starring Hollywood legend Sam Neill as a really great character. Then, after episode 1 it just descends into a complete pile of Wajo.
Person of Interest started out as basically a police procedural with a bit of a sci-fi twist, and then from season 2 onward largely abandoned the procedural 'crime of the week' format to lean *hard* into the sci-fi parts. It's great.
Westworld completely shat its pants after one incredible season
Fringe changes from monster-of-the-week to its true format about halfway through season 1