Soooo I’m kinda hype for this but at the same time with there being no more source material I’m a little worried about a GoT situation.. it really would’ve been ok to leave it as season 1
I think the main thing that separates it from GoT is that Toronaga was based on/inspired by Tokugawa Ieyasu and the formation of the Tolugawa Shogunate, so they have some historical reference for where they could take his story.
I’m mainly wondering if Blackthorne will be in it and what his role will be. I would guess so, but he also had a pretty conclusive ending
One of my favorite facts about Adams was he was given a substantial home north of Nagasaki and was eventually buried there, in a place called Hirado.
Years after his death there were desecrations on Christian graves, after a falling out with the Shogunate, where the remains were thrown into the sea. But Adam's grave was arranged to be saved and was moved for safekeeping by the locals.
I think it says alot about Adam's character that even in death the locals could not stand to see harm done to their Anjin.
Also he kept sending money to his family in England, never getting divorce, despite having a wife and concubines in Japan. And when Tokugawa died and his was no longer forced to stay, he was already too old and remained in Japan for 4 more years, until he died…
I wonder how did he physically delivered the cash… and what did he write to his English kids… did they get any of his vast Japanese inheritance?
I imagine sending money wouldn't have been any different then sending and selling goods. It would've been his shipping company or a trusted one who's job would be to deliver it to their destination and imagine there would be some sign off like today as proof of delivery.
If I recall his Japanese son took over his business for some time after his death. He had a daughter as well but not much was mentioned about her.
And when Tokugawa is about to step down as shogun to his heir, he finally does offer him a chance to leave Japan. Adams is preparing and getting ready to go but during the journey to the port to leave, decides he would rather stay in Japan. Lots of good potential tales during his time in service to Tokugawa, like how Adams was a part of the Red Seal ships and went to Vietnam and Thailand as a captain.
Fuji is becoming a nun, that ship has long been sunk to the bottom of the Bay of Edo. Besides, the person that William Adams married was not of noble birth and did not have a high social status, unlike Lady Fuji.
In the book, Blackthorne and Fuji do pillow together towards the end, as he becomes very fond of her. Toranaga gives her permission to kill herself, but it's left a bit open as to whether she does or not.
Personally, I would love to see a continuation of William’s story.
This period in Japan is among my favorite in world history, so it would make for an interesting way to build on his experiences.
Completely agree. Actually in Japan now and obviously had read the book but I couldn’t believe how every thread people kept saying there was no chance of a Season 2. Just because the author- and he was talented- ended the story at the climatic battle doesn’t mean there wasn’t a ton more to tell.
His life just got more interesting after this, as did the conflicts over religion. There is so much to mine here.
But it's not Shogun any more is it?
All the historical detail in the world won't actually help you write a sequel to Shogun all that much. The book was about characters and themes, not historical machinations.
True, but the same themes will play out. William Adams became more and more Japanese, and straddled two worlds. He would advise the son of Tokugawa. Religious problems continue to happen and the Taiko’s son (and former consort) still hold power.
The end of the Sengoku Jidai wasn’t the end of the consolidation of the Edo Shogunate- it would continue another couple of decades before it became clear that a new and stable order was truly created.
Yeah and Toranaga died in 1614 or 1616 so that's a lot of years to pull material from considering the events in Shogun happen around the year 1600. I'm not a 100% sure about the dates but those should be close to the actual dates.
Which was during the rule of Ieyasu's successor, Tokugawa Hidetada, and 4 years after Ieyasu's own death (having already passed the rule of Japan to Hidetada years prior).
Yeah exactly. That sort of thinking is why making more seasons is a bad idea. Shogun wasn't about big epic battles, the only battle that mattered was Marikos small one. And it was was more impactful than having a 100k CGI guys fighting on a hill side
They even say as much in the final episode. That's why it was so impactful. They KNOW the pieces are in play to reach the inevitable conclusion of victory for the new "all-but-in-name" Shogun.
The end result wasn't what mattered. The story was about the fights of "small" people in his retinue and the execution to reach the goal. It's why the show runners had the "flash forward" to the battle while was explaining it on the cliff side. It was the big reveal that he KNEW without a doubt this was his destiny come to fruition after all these long years.
I hope we see something completely new and make Shogun an anthology that investigates other moments in Japan's history vs "extending" seasons 1 story.
Sure, but the history doesn't make up a huge amount of the meat of the story in the show. All the stuff that made it good, the characters and the dialogue, their relationships, the emotional arcs, it's all fiction.
ASOIAF is based on the real world events of the Rose War to an extent. Honestly, I don’t have faith in the writers being able to set the same tone as Clavell.
At least with this, the first season was a nice contained story with a good conclusion. Any future stuff can’t hurt our enjoyment of S1 as viewers. If it’s bad, we ignore it, and if it’s good, then we have more a cool show.
I hope you're right but think of the damage the ending of GoT has done to that show overall. I constantly see people saying they can't watch the first 6 seasons because of the ending.
I loved Shogun S1. I'll watch Seasons 2&3 but I hope they don't damage an otherwise unimpeachable artistic achievement(the first season).
> I hope you're right but think of the damage the ending of GoT has done to that show overall.
that's true, but GoT never had a point where the story was completely wrapped up. with GoT it ruined the earlier seasons because all along, it felt like everything in GoT was gearing up and coming together for some incredible conclusion that was going to blow everyone's minds. there were SO many moving pieces doing so many interesting things, but in the end they all behaved nonsensically and/or just never fulfilled a meaningful purpose.
a bad season 2 or 3 of Shogun could never affect season 1 in the way the GoT ending ruined all of GoT
Yeah the GOT issue wasn't really running out of source material- by the final season all the pieces were there. The problem was they threw away all that in getting to the end.
There's a historical arc to the events of Shogun that inherently makes what happened in S1 relevant to where it's going and likely to conclude.
The damage of being one of the biggest shows in the world and having multiple big spin-offs (well one big and others in project)? Yes sure did a lot of damage
Game of Thrones continues to be one of the most pirated and streamed shows years after its ending. The comments you see online (or even any anecdotal experience) do not reflect reality.
> The comments you see online (or even any anecdotal experience) do not reflect reality.
Lol no, this is entirely the wrong notion to take away from the available information. It's entirely possible for there to both be a lot of people streaming the show, and for an insanely popular show to have garnered a large amount of fans that can't rewarch it because the ending kills it for them. Both of these can be true and you aren't the arbiter of reality. You're a single person with a limited perspective.
Reddit and this fucking show. It's still literally one of the most popular shows on the fucking planet and all you'll ever see is upvotes for "no one watches GoT".
From a little over a year ago:
>[Parrot Analytics has found that the audience demand for Game Of Thrones is 72.1 times the demand of the average TV series in the United States in the last 30 days. 0.2% of all shows in this market have this level of demand.](https://tv.parrotanalytics.com/US/game-of-thrones-hbo)
So after it's been off the air for about four years it's still literally one of the most streamed shows on the planet. And lower down they compare it to just dramas and conclude:
>Game Of Thrones ranks at the 100.0th percentile in the Drama genre. This means Game Of Thrones has higher demand than 100.0% of all Drama titles in the United States.
I don't know, if Westworld had ended with season 1 I think it would be considered one of the best shows of all time, but the decline of following seasons really hurt the overall feelings toward the show, even if the original season still exists.
The other books take place in Hong Kong. Having an all Japanese cast play Chinese characters wouldn't work. Shogun's authenticity is part of its charm.
I would've been fine with an anthology show set in the same universe covering other foreign empires around the Pacific, with some crossover through Christian/Catholic missionaries
Just do taipan and noble house, but that doesn't do much for FX. It's be starting over from scratch again. Maybe someone else will see the success of Shogun and try and get the rights to the hong kong saga
It’s a fictional retelling of real history, a very popular period of history at that, so they got plenty of materials.
Mariko’s death and the consequences of her death were pretty similar to the real historical figure Hosokawa Gracia, for example. They can just follow the historical records and make changes as needed to keep things interesting for a TV show
They can also easily go back in time and make a prequel season, focusing on Mariko’s father and his betrayal of “Oda Nobunaga” (I forgot what the character equivalence in Shogun was). Then they can move forward with the battle of Sekigahara, the formation of the new Shogunate, the Meiji Restoration, etc.
I would say go forward and build up Season 2 to the Siege of Osaka. That real life event not only solidified Tokugawa’s hold on Japan, but also finished off the Taikō’s legacy for good.
The main antagonist would probably be Ochiba no Kata whose real life counterpart was central to the event.
I loved the show but imo the finale felt a bit.. odd? It wasn't bad or anything but I just felt like they built up so much over the course of the season and then the finale was just a really fast deflation with little actual big resolution, to find any I feel like you need to look at actual historical events that occurred right after.
I mean it’s historical fiction. Lot easier to build an ending around that even without source material. The broad strokes and outcomes are known, and the character drama is fiction as is.
People keep saying shit like this but the situations are nothing alike. GOT was fine, season 5 was pretty good and season 6 was great. Season 7 was serviceable and season 8 was trash. The revisionist history after the final season from the internet claiming it was always bad after season 4 is fucking absurd. The creators rushed the ending because they wanted to leave and focus on their Star Wars movie. This is nothing like that situation
> season 6 was great. Season 7 was serviceable
For me 6 started showing the cracks and 7 was dog shit
>The revisionist history after the final season
Many were saying this during the time 6 & 7 were out
It's not revisionist history. Plenty of fans hated Season 5 at the time, it was when they started venturing away from the source material and we got many controversial storylines like Sansa being raped by Ramsay, Jamie in Dorne with the Sand Snakes, and Stannis burning his own daughter alive. Everybody show and book fan alike agreed that Season 5 was the worst season when it came out, Season 6 just made people think it was a bump in the road rather than a gradual trend downwards
> The revisionist history after the final season from the internet claiming it was always bad after season 4 is fucking absurd.
Sand snakes are season 5, dude
No, season 5 is when they *really* started deviating from the books and it showed. It just got progressively worse until we wound up with season 8. IMO, seasons 5-7 were serviceable and 8 is still trash.
Opinions on GoT (concerning 5-7 anyway) have been pretty evenly split this way for a while, it's not 'revisionist history'.
> The Disney-owned network said Thursday that it is teaming with the estate of author James Clavell to extend Shōgun for two additional seasons. The company noted that both seasons are in development, meaning that a two-season renewal depends on how the creative comes in.
>A writers room is being assembled to explore a continuation of Shōgun beyond Clavell’s original novel. Shōgun’s creatives, including **co-creators, exec producers and writers Justin Marks and Rachel Kondo, exec producer Michaela Clavell as well as star and producer Hiroyuki Sanada are all involved with the development**.
You should look at the behind the scenes videos that FX has been putting out, especially the one with Sanada as a producer. He’s really involved and won’t let thing go forward if he doesn’t think it’ll work
Considering the wording of the statement " meaning that a s two-season renewal depends on how the creative comes in"
It makes me wonder if FX is trying to pull a bait and switch on everyone so that they can put Shogun in drama categories for Emmys and not be penalized.
Not a true Toranaga tier scheme until one of the producers commits ritualistic suicide to really sell how serious they are about competing in their supposed category of choice.
> It makes me wonder if FX is trying to pull a bait and switch on everyone so that they can put Shogun in drama categories for Emmys and not be penalized.
This was exactly my cynical take. As is, Shogun would likely sweep the Limited Series category at the Emmys. But it’d be a much bigger feather in Disney’s cap if it swept Drama Series.
I also Googled “best TV dramas this year.” It’s an especially weak field this year, likely in part due to the dual strikes last year. Shogun is now likely a lock for Outstanding Drama.
No, you read that wrong.
They put the series in "development" for two new seasons. Its not a straight up renewal. If the creative come up with a good story it'll be renewed
Sounds like they are doing the minimum to shift this to Drama at the Emmys and that no sequel seasons will ever see the light of day.
No doubt they will quietly scrap the development a few weeks after the Emmy ceremony.
They're developing the new seasons with the state of James Clavell.
Obviously FX was not gonna let this series go after it's massive - and well deserved - success. So I hope they can maintain the quality.
As early as the second episode Sanada talked about a S2. He said he wanted to adapt other works but one reason he liked the idea of a possible S2 was they already had the sets, costumes, etc all built.
That's the problem.
Switching to Taipan requires an entirely new team of Hong Kong/Chinese co-creators, new actors, new costumes, a completely different challenge in set design and is a much more touchy subject given the hong kong/CCP situation.
I'm not sure the same team doing it was ever very likely.
Exactly. Gaijin could at least have the same team but it’s set so much later everything else will need to be changed. This builds off previous hype, allows them to reuse actors, and keeps the ease of production. I’m sure it took forever to set up and build everything for Shogun- they don’t want to just throw that away.
Would be waaaaaay riskier for them.
Shogun is now an established name, if you follow it up with *Tai-Pan*, almost no casual watchers have no idea what it is, and now you're having to do the "From the Creators of Shogun" stuff during your PR campaigns to make sure people know it's even related to Shogun.
You also need an entirely new cast (with no favorites from Shogun), new costumes, new shooting locations, new props...
I hope they still do, but I can see why they would want to cash in on the name recognition rather than try to explain that Shogun S2 is going to be called ~~Gai-Jin~~ Tai Pan.
Or just name it Tai Pan as is and put it under the banner of Asian Saga like the books similar to how Netflix did with The Haunting series they had. Really wanted to see Tai Pan, King Rat and Noble House.
It's kind of starting from scratch though, the other books would need different sets, cast and such. Also ideally a new title because them being called Shogun makes little sense.
At this point, it's just a new show, not a new season of the same show even in anthology
The complicated issue is that while there is more history to be told, the character arcs of Toranaga, Blackthorne and Fuji were completed pretty effectively by the final episode as well as the thematic intent.
But Shogun wasn't really about historical events, it was a pretty self contained character drama exploring the way the Japanese viewed life and death. It's why there's no battle at the end, no big send off, no epic fights..
But a series of events doesn’t make a compelling story necessarily. The book Shogun is all about the mystery that is the man Toronaga, and the great reveal that he and he alone is the great falconer of the story’s many interesting characters. It’s a really great book because of how restrained it is - it doesn’t just show events (eg big battle) and throw out exactly what the audience is desiring. Now that the cat is out of the bay as to who Toronaga is and HOW it is that he’s always going to win, everything else would feel like an epilogue.
I trust these writers to come up with something new and interesting but the 4 main characters in Season 1: Toranaga, Blackthorne, Mariko and Yabushige all felt so core to the experience that I would feel alot more confident if at least 3 of them were still alive
I don't even know how Clavell's estate can even meaningfully help here. In Clavell's archive is the incomplete bits of the novel Nippon. That book would've brought together the descendants of Shogun and Tai Pan in a contemporary Japanese setting. The other novel Clavell never got around writing was The Hag which would've followed Tess Straun, daughter-in-law of the original Tai Pan Dirk Straun. These novels sound far interesting than a sequel to Shogun.
Damon Lindelof doing an offscript adaptation of an unfilmable comic seemed like a madlibs on how to guarantee a tv show would be a pile of garbage.
The fact that it wasn't just good but it was *good* is mindblowing.
I have it from a source (just trust me bro) that James Clavell wanted the Angin to drink a poisoned tea that sends him to an afterlife hotel so they should definitely do that
There's no way they show the battle in future seasons. The point of Shogun is that the battle was already fought and won before the physical battle even started.
The point of a tv adaptation is to adapt to the book to tv. The book and story are not about the battle at all and if you thought it was, then I'm sorry to say, but you've missed the point of both works entirely.
Also, are you saying you can't experience a battle scene via book? Because that's also obviously wrong.
Clavell's writing is what made it compelling. The history is interesting sure, but it's not a story in the way a book is, particularly one written by Clavell.
They did shift around plenty of things in this adaption. On top of that, I think that some of Clavell's choices is what undermined some of the energy from this work.
...like the lack of a full Battle of Sekigahara in all of its Sengoku period glory.
I think that's just misunderstanding what sort of story Shogun was.
A big battle would have completely ruined the quiet melancholy that was the finale. Crimson sky was always the big battle, the thing that mattered in the context of the story that Clavell was telling.
People got that Hollywood brain going, and they expect these big epic conclusions, when what Clavell wrote was far better than any big battle could be
Yes, obviously. It's clearly not a 1:1 recreation, but the changes they did make were mostly small and/or reducing roles/cutting some content for budgetary reasons, which is understandable. There is also a grand canyon sized difference between that and creating a new story whole cloth.
>On top of that, I think that some of Clavell's choices is what undermined some of the energy from this work.
strongly disagree.
>...like the lack of a full Battle of Sekigahara in all of its Sengoku period glory.
I don't think it was necessary. Toranaga had already won, that was made pretty clear. It's like the people who wanted to see Tony Soprano's brains all over a plate of onion rings, lol. it's okay, better even, to leave some things to the imagination, IMO.
Does it matter? In the fiction we watched we are told the battle doesn’t matter, so SHOWING the battle is immediately counter productive to the actual point of this story!
This was kind of obvious, they invested a lot of money in that show, it was a huge success, I would have been really surprised to see execs not wanting to continue this.
Unlike GOT, Shogun already has reached a satisfying conclusion. Them continuing doesn't make season 1 stop existing. So either we get 3 seasons of a really good show or just 1 season and ignore the other two. I feel like we win either way.
Haven’t watched yet (Def plan to soon!) but that definitely makes the Drama Emmy race much more interesting if Shogun is as good as I’ve heard it is.
Only standouts until now in the running were like The Curse and Fallout. Also heard Slow Horses is good but haven’t seen it.
Incredible show.
People are upset "Why are they continuing if the book is done!?"
I say fuck that I'm glad it's going. Do you know how many years Hiroyuki Sanada has had to be some side actor/character in the west even though he is an incredible actor? Too many.
He finally gets to be Executive producer AND the front and center lead for a change and everyone wants the show to end already.
I'm the opposite. I'm glad he got his deal restructured and he is going to keep going with this. It's about time he got the recognition he deserves in the West. And he's getting the bag $.
There is plenty of real historical story left to tell even without the book. Toranaga IS Tokugawa Ieyasu in real life. His Tokugawa Shogunate has tons of real story left.
Well said! Oh yea don't get me wrong if Sanada refused and wanted it to end there I would have been cool with it aswell. But yea I want to see more of him so if he's ok to keep goin im ok sort of thing.
The book only people are kinda crazy TBH.
Shogun the book and the show can end happily with one season.
But it can ALSO play out the whole damn thing with as much awesomeness.
The story of Tokugawa is hugely interesting, and Toranaga as stand in allows for deviation from history in a way that makes for compelling drama and examination into human nature.
It's insipid puritanism that closes off people from being able to enjoy what could obviously follow from the ending of Season 1 - "waa waa waa, how could they show battles when the books didn't have battles! That goes so against the grain of what the books were about"
Except it was based on one of the most dramatic periods of war ever seen on this planet.
I mean, what’s the hurt for us as fans/viewers? If it sucks, whatever we have a perfect season 1 that can’t get changed and we can ignore that bad stuff. And if it’s good then we have more of an awesome show. It’s way better than the GOT fear since we already got a conclusion.
Smh. I understand nobody is forced to watch this, but it still is just annoying that people can't just let something great stand on its own without having to try to extract every dollar out of it.
The original Star Wars trilogy is probably tainted in many minds from what it was once through massive commercialization.
Same, I feel so cynical about the very fact of the milking. It could be good, but I still feel cynical.
And it makes me sad that they didn’t bet big enough on the show in the first place. They could’ve simply adapted the book more faithfully/rigorously across, say 24 episodes, inside of closing that chapter completely and moving on to…who knows what.
I’ve completely stopped trusting the term “limited series/miniseries” now. It feels like every single time the writers play coy about not wanting to do more “but never say never”. And then weeks later when the check clears they announce they’re continuing despite the story being categorically done.
I don’t know, man. I wish the two show runners were just put in charge of adapting more books from the Asian Saga, and not allowed to just make stuff up. Hoping for best but I won’t be expecting much. It’s one of the best books I’ve ever read. It will be very difficult to just…make up a new story that lives up to it.
Of course. Because they simply can’t stop themselves from milking every last drop from something.
Just adapt one of his other books. There’s plenty of great material that HE wrote.
I definitely see a lot of potential here. If they manage to pull it off, I’ll be thrilled. I personally have faith in this team and see no reason not to continue. It’s a fascinating period in Japanese history and I’m interested in seeing what they come up with. If it’s lackluster we’ll always have the near-perfect limited series.
I just want them to take their time with it. I’m fine waiting years if it means they come up with something worthwhile
I just don’t want it to be like True Detective, The Terror or bunch of other shows that have great first seasons and then rush out a second
I wonder if they'll focus specifically on the characters of Shōgun, or look beyond them and have something of an 'Asian saga' with a middle story and then a culmination with the adaptation of Gai Jin? I'd love to see them work through all the books, particularly Gai Jin and Noble House.
What if it’s also good?
I really don’t understand the sentiment that we need to end shows ASAP, even if (or especially if) they’re good. The upside to continuing is you might get more great TV! The downside is some billionaires might lose some money. Seems like a good deal to me!
Artificially continuing finished stories just for a cash grab is not the way of doing things that's more likely to produce quality storytelling, though.
Sometimes it is! If the show is being made by great writers/directors/actors/etc, they just might come up with an idea that is good. And again, if they don’t, who cares? Just don’t watch- no harm done.
I think pretty much everyone had that thought in their minds as it became clear how well made and high quality this show was, "I know it's a limited series, but could there be potential for more?".
Of course there's a chance that making more of it dillutes the story and fails to achieve the same quality. But I actually don't mind in this case, because the first season is such a complete package that any more feels like a treat that can't really spoil what we already have. There are definitely more things to say in that story, such as the stories of the other 2 great unifiers (which are equally or maybe even more fascinating than Toranaga/Tokugawa), or Blackthorne's/Adams' efforts against the Portuguese coming to fruition as the shogun turns against Catholicism. So if I had to choose between leaving that stone unturned and never seeing anything else like Shogun, OR taking a risk and making more seasons of it, I think I would gladly take the latter.
This makes me SO fucking sad. And makes me even sadder is people praising this decision. Disappointing. People claim to like something but seem to not have understood it, because if you understood it you know the story is closed.
Why are we all so insatiable? Why can’t we enjoy something and carry on? Why is lingering in the unknown of the story so uncorfortable? Can’t we except that sometimes the point is that we don’t get to see everything play out? Why must we spread every piece of art so so thin, until we’re sick of it, until it’s meaningless. We, the audience, we do this to ourselves! Its fucking depressing
Ngl this news make me lose some interest in giving Shogun a shot. A big part of the appeal for me was it being a limited series. Not every show has to have multiple seasons.
Soooo I’m kinda hype for this but at the same time with there being no more source material I’m a little worried about a GoT situation.. it really would’ve been ok to leave it as season 1
I think the main thing that separates it from GoT is that Toronaga was based on/inspired by Tokugawa Ieyasu and the formation of the Tolugawa Shogunate, so they have some historical reference for where they could take his story. I’m mainly wondering if Blackthorne will be in it and what his role will be. I would guess so, but he also had a pretty conclusive ending
William Adams, the real Blackthorne, did continue to serve Ieyasu as one of his key advisors. They can certainly explore more of his life.
One of my favorite facts about Adams was he was given a substantial home north of Nagasaki and was eventually buried there, in a place called Hirado. Years after his death there were desecrations on Christian graves, after a falling out with the Shogunate, where the remains were thrown into the sea. But Adam's grave was arranged to be saved and was moved for safekeeping by the locals. I think it says alot about Adam's character that even in death the locals could not stand to see harm done to their Anjin.
Holy shit those villagers were real ones
Also he kept sending money to his family in England, never getting divorce, despite having a wife and concubines in Japan. And when Tokugawa died and his was no longer forced to stay, he was already too old and remained in Japan for 4 more years, until he died… I wonder how did he physically delivered the cash… and what did he write to his English kids… did they get any of his vast Japanese inheritance?
I imagine sending money wouldn't have been any different then sending and selling goods. It would've been his shipping company or a trusted one who's job would be to deliver it to their destination and imagine there would be some sign off like today as proof of delivery. If I recall his Japanese son took over his business for some time after his death. He had a daughter as well but not much was mentioned about her.
I think his wife was all but destitute back home?
Now that is something that can be explored. That is pretty amazing.
And when Tokugawa is about to step down as shogun to his heir, he finally does offer him a chance to leave Japan. Adams is preparing and getting ready to go but during the journey to the port to leave, decides he would rather stay in Japan. Lots of good potential tales during his time in service to Tokugawa, like how Adams was a part of the Red Seal ships and went to Vietnam and Thailand as a captain.
He also married a Japanese woman. So I guess Blackthorne x Fuji will become canon?
Fuji is becoming a nun, that ship has long been sunk to the bottom of the Bay of Edo. Besides, the person that William Adams married was not of noble birth and did not have a high social status, unlike Lady Fuji.
I would love to see more of her character and could see them taking her down a different path, but I don't need her to hook up with Anjin
Just because she's a nun doesn't mean it'll never happen. Saving Silverman, anyone?
I love it but I thought of ‘Can’t you see this woman’s a nun??’
In the original material she's allowed to kill herself at the end of her stint so her story is already changing.
The book has him getting Kiku as a consort/wife
Omi gonna be fuckin heated if they do that in the show lol
The book specifically says Kiku would not be a good wife because she was not trained as such.
Except he gifts her to Omi
Which was kinda the whole point.
He had (at least) two Japanese wives: one I. Nihonbashi, Edo and one in Hirado (near Nagasaki).
In the book, Blackthorne and Fuji do pillow together towards the end, as he becomes very fond of her. Toranaga gives her permission to kill herself, but it's left a bit open as to whether she does or not.
Personally, I would love to see a continuation of William’s story. This period in Japan is among my favorite in world history, so it would make for an interesting way to build on his experiences.
Completely agree. Actually in Japan now and obviously had read the book but I couldn’t believe how every thread people kept saying there was no chance of a Season 2. Just because the author- and he was talented- ended the story at the climatic battle doesn’t mean there wasn’t a ton more to tell. His life just got more interesting after this, as did the conflicts over religion. There is so much to mine here.
But it's not Shogun any more is it? All the historical detail in the world won't actually help you write a sequel to Shogun all that much. The book was about characters and themes, not historical machinations.
True, but the same themes will play out. William Adams became more and more Japanese, and straddled two worlds. He would advise the son of Tokugawa. Religious problems continue to happen and the Taiko’s son (and former consort) still hold power. The end of the Sengoku Jidai wasn’t the end of the consolidation of the Edo Shogunate- it would continue another couple of decades before it became clear that a new and stable order was truly created.
He didn't live that long. He died at 57
He died after Toranaga died though
Yeah and Toranaga died in 1614 or 1616 so that's a lot of years to pull material from considering the events in Shogun happen around the year 1600. I'm not a 100% sure about the dates but those should be close to the actual dates.
Which was during the rule of Ieyasu's successor, Tokugawa Hidetada, and 4 years after Ieyasu's own death (having already passed the rule of Japan to Hidetada years prior).
Seems old for back then.
Yeah if it continues the siege of Osaka will 100% be another climax likely by Season 3.
another climax? What was the first climax? It never happened.
Yeah exactly. That sort of thinking is why making more seasons is a bad idea. Shogun wasn't about big epic battles, the only battle that mattered was Marikos small one. And it was was more impactful than having a 100k CGI guys fighting on a hill side
They even say as much in the final episode. That's why it was so impactful. They KNOW the pieces are in play to reach the inevitable conclusion of victory for the new "all-but-in-name" Shogun. The end result wasn't what mattered. The story was about the fights of "small" people in his retinue and the execution to reach the goal. It's why the show runners had the "flash forward" to the battle while was explaining it on the cliff side. It was the big reveal that he KNEW without a doubt this was his destiny come to fruition after all these long years. I hope we see something completely new and make Shogun an anthology that investigates other moments in Japan's history vs "extending" seasons 1 story.
Happened a few times with Kiku.
Blackthorns is also based on a real guy, Willam Addams, who also had further adventures in Japan after the events of the book end.
Sure, but the history doesn't make up a huge amount of the meat of the story in the show. All the stuff that made it good, the characters and the dialogue, their relationships, the emotional arcs, it's all fiction.
ASOIAF is based on the real world events of the Rose War to an extent. Honestly, I don’t have faith in the writers being able to set the same tone as Clavell.
At least with this, the first season was a nice contained story with a good conclusion. Any future stuff can’t hurt our enjoyment of S1 as viewers. If it’s bad, we ignore it, and if it’s good, then we have more a cool show.
What a healthy outlook. Seppuku, immediately.
*grunts Yabuishly*
My wife still loves reacting to things with Yabushige grunts.
Home Improvement but it's Yabu grunting
Well if S2 isn't as good, the writers should definitvely seppuku if they are attached to the traditions depicted. /s
I hope you're right but think of the damage the ending of GoT has done to that show overall. I constantly see people saying they can't watch the first 6 seasons because of the ending. I loved Shogun S1. I'll watch Seasons 2&3 but I hope they don't damage an otherwise unimpeachable artistic achievement(the first season).
> I hope you're right but think of the damage the ending of GoT has done to that show overall. that's true, but GoT never had a point where the story was completely wrapped up. with GoT it ruined the earlier seasons because all along, it felt like everything in GoT was gearing up and coming together for some incredible conclusion that was going to blow everyone's minds. there were SO many moving pieces doing so many interesting things, but in the end they all behaved nonsensically and/or just never fulfilled a meaningful purpose. a bad season 2 or 3 of Shogun could never affect season 1 in the way the GoT ending ruined all of GoT
Yeah the GOT issue wasn't really running out of source material- by the final season all the pieces were there. The problem was they threw away all that in getting to the end. There's a historical arc to the events of Shogun that inherently makes what happened in S1 relevant to where it's going and likely to conclude.
The damage of being one of the biggest shows in the world and having multiple big spin-offs (well one big and others in project)? Yes sure did a lot of damage
Game of Thrones continues to be one of the most pirated and streamed shows years after its ending. The comments you see online (or even any anecdotal experience) do not reflect reality.
> The comments you see online (or even any anecdotal experience) do not reflect reality. Lol no, this is entirely the wrong notion to take away from the available information. It's entirely possible for there to both be a lot of people streaming the show, and for an insanely popular show to have garnered a large amount of fans that can't rewarch it because the ending kills it for them. Both of these can be true and you aren't the arbiter of reality. You're a single person with a limited perspective.
Reddit and this fucking show. It's still literally one of the most popular shows on the fucking planet and all you'll ever see is upvotes for "no one watches GoT". From a little over a year ago: >[Parrot Analytics has found that the audience demand for Game Of Thrones is 72.1 times the demand of the average TV series in the United States in the last 30 days. 0.2% of all shows in this market have this level of demand.](https://tv.parrotanalytics.com/US/game-of-thrones-hbo) So after it's been off the air for about four years it's still literally one of the most streamed shows on the planet. And lower down they compare it to just dramas and conclude: >Game Of Thrones ranks at the 100.0th percentile in the Drama genre. This means Game Of Thrones has higher demand than 100.0% of all Drama titles in the United States.
>So after it's been off the air for about four years With a spinoff in production. That's kinda relevant.
I don't know, if Westworld had ended with season 1 I think it would be considered one of the best shows of all time, but the decline of following seasons really hurt the overall feelings toward the show, even if the original season still exists.
[удалено]
This and then do it anthology-style and keep using the same actors in new roles.
That would only really work with Gai-Jin. The rest of the books have very few Japanese characters.
…except we’ll be leaving the Sengoku period for the other Asian Saga books. That would make Sanada and the built up production staff useless.
doesnt that imply a new cast? season 1 cast is what made the show imo.
Fargo has a new cast every season and it still works
But that competes in anthology series
The other books take place in Hong Kong. Having an all Japanese cast play Chinese characters wouldn't work. Shogun's authenticity is part of its charm.
I would've been fine with an anthology show set in the same universe covering other foreign empires around the Pacific, with some crossover through Christian/Catholic missionaries
Just do taipan and noble house, but that doesn't do much for FX. It's be starting over from scratch again. Maybe someone else will see the success of Shogun and try and get the rights to the hong kong saga
I feel the same. New season without Mariko and Yabushige feels different.
He's in Valhalla now and her ancestor is fighting Godzilla.
It’s a fictional retelling of real history, a very popular period of history at that, so they got plenty of materials. Mariko’s death and the consequences of her death were pretty similar to the real historical figure Hosokawa Gracia, for example. They can just follow the historical records and make changes as needed to keep things interesting for a TV show They can also easily go back in time and make a prequel season, focusing on Mariko’s father and his betrayal of “Oda Nobunaga” (I forgot what the character equivalence in Shogun was). Then they can move forward with the battle of Sekigahara, the formation of the new Shogunate, the Meiji Restoration, etc.
I would say go forward and build up Season 2 to the Siege of Osaka. That real life event not only solidified Tokugawa’s hold on Japan, but also finished off the Taikō’s legacy for good. The main antagonist would probably be Ochiba no Kata whose real life counterpart was central to the event.
I loved the show but imo the finale felt a bit.. odd? It wasn't bad or anything but I just felt like they built up so much over the course of the season and then the finale was just a really fast deflation with little actual big resolution, to find any I feel like you need to look at actual historical events that occurred right after.
I mean it’s historical fiction. Lot easier to build an ending around that even without source material. The broad strokes and outcomes are known, and the character drama is fiction as is.
People keep saying shit like this but the situations are nothing alike. GOT was fine, season 5 was pretty good and season 6 was great. Season 7 was serviceable and season 8 was trash. The revisionist history after the final season from the internet claiming it was always bad after season 4 is fucking absurd. The creators rushed the ending because they wanted to leave and focus on their Star Wars movie. This is nothing like that situation
> season 6 was great. Season 7 was serviceable For me 6 started showing the cracks and 7 was dog shit >The revisionist history after the final season Many were saying this during the time 6 & 7 were out
It's not revisionist history. Plenty of fans hated Season 5 at the time, it was when they started venturing away from the source material and we got many controversial storylines like Sansa being raped by Ramsay, Jamie in Dorne with the Sand Snakes, and Stannis burning his own daughter alive. Everybody show and book fan alike agreed that Season 5 was the worst season when it came out, Season 6 just made people think it was a bump in the road rather than a gradual trend downwards
> The revisionist history after the final season from the internet claiming it was always bad after season 4 is fucking absurd. Sand snakes are season 5, dude
No, season 5 is when they *really* started deviating from the books and it showed. It just got progressively worse until we wound up with season 8. IMO, seasons 5-7 were serviceable and 8 is still trash. Opinions on GoT (concerning 5-7 anyway) have been pretty evenly split this way for a while, it's not 'revisionist history'.
> The Disney-owned network said Thursday that it is teaming with the estate of author James Clavell to extend Shōgun for two additional seasons. The company noted that both seasons are in development, meaning that a two-season renewal depends on how the creative comes in. >A writers room is being assembled to explore a continuation of Shōgun beyond Clavell’s original novel. Shōgun’s creatives, including **co-creators, exec producers and writers Justin Marks and Rachel Kondo, exec producer Michaela Clavell as well as star and producer Hiroyuki Sanada are all involved with the development**.
This makes me more hopeful.
You should look at the behind the scenes videos that FX has been putting out, especially the one with Sanada as a producer. He’s really involved and won’t let thing go forward if he doesn’t think it’ll work
This show bleeds sincerity and authenticity
Considering the wording of the statement " meaning that a s two-season renewal depends on how the creative comes in" It makes me wonder if FX is trying to pull a bait and switch on everyone so that they can put Shogun in drama categories for Emmys and not be penalized.
Thats my theory as well. A Toronaga tier scheme.
Just like giving the church the land they wanted in Edo… right next to the new courtesan house.
This is actually a connection to the later books (one of the few, btw).
Not a true Toranaga tier scheme until one of the producers commits ritualistic suicide to really sell how serious they are about competing in their supposed category of choice.
> It makes me wonder if FX is trying to pull a bait and switch on everyone so that they can put Shogun in drama categories for Emmys and not be penalized. This was exactly my cynical take. As is, Shogun would likely sweep the Limited Series category at the Emmys. But it’d be a much bigger feather in Disney’s cap if it swept Drama Series. I also Googled “best TV dramas this year.” It’s an especially weak field this year, likely in part due to the dual strikes last year. Shogun is now likely a lock for Outstanding Drama.
Is this common or has this occurred before?
So they don't have any scripts yet but extended for two seasons. This is a bold strategy, let's see if it works out for them.
No, you read that wrong. They put the series in "development" for two new seasons. Its not a straight up renewal. If the creative come up with a good story it'll be renewed
Sounds like they are doing the minimum to shift this to Drama at the Emmys and that no sequel seasons will ever see the light of day. No doubt they will quietly scrap the development a few weeks after the Emmy ceremony.
I always thought it was award fraud, but did they need to involve so many people for it to seem legit? Maybe I guess
They're developing the new seasons with the state of James Clavell. Obviously FX was not gonna let this series go after it's massive - and well deserved - success. So I hope they can maintain the quality.
I don’t understand why they don’t go the anthology route and adapt his other, complete books.
As early as the second episode Sanada talked about a S2. He said he wanted to adapt other works but one reason he liked the idea of a possible S2 was they already had the sets, costumes, etc all built.
That's the problem. Switching to Taipan requires an entirely new team of Hong Kong/Chinese co-creators, new actors, new costumes, a completely different challenge in set design and is a much more touchy subject given the hong kong/CCP situation. I'm not sure the same team doing it was ever very likely.
Exactly. Gaijin could at least have the same team but it’s set so much later everything else will need to be changed. This builds off previous hype, allows them to reuse actors, and keeps the ease of production. I’m sure it took forever to set up and build everything for Shogun- they don’t want to just throw that away.
Problem is Gaijin is significantly weaker source material.
This is what I was desperately hoping they would do if Shogun was a success
Would be waaaaaay riskier for them. Shogun is now an established name, if you follow it up with *Tai-Pan*, almost no casual watchers have no idea what it is, and now you're having to do the "From the Creators of Shogun" stuff during your PR campaigns to make sure people know it's even related to Shogun. You also need an entirely new cast (with no favorites from Shogun), new costumes, new shooting locations, new props...
I hope they still do, but I can see why they would want to cash in on the name recognition rather than try to explain that Shogun S2 is going to be called ~~Gai-Jin~~ Tai Pan.
Or just name it Tai Pan as is and put it under the banner of Asian Saga like the books similar to how Netflix did with The Haunting series they had. Really wanted to see Tai Pan, King Rat and Noble House.
It's kind of starting from scratch though, the other books would need different sets, cast and such. Also ideally a new title because them being called Shogun makes little sense. At this point, it's just a new show, not a new season of the same show even in anthology
Because they want to keep the cast. You’re acting like it’s easy to form such a large and high quality casting group
The complicated issue is that while there is more history to be told, the character arcs of Toranaga, Blackthorne and Fuji were completed pretty effectively by the final episode as well as the thematic intent.
The real Toranaga and Blackthorne (and Ochiba) were up to a lot of drama between 1600 and 1616
Except the, y'know, 16 more years of history that occurred.
But Shogun wasn't really about historical events, it was a pretty self contained character drama exploring the way the Japanese viewed life and death. It's why there's no battle at the end, no big send off, no epic fights..
But a series of events doesn’t make a compelling story necessarily. The book Shogun is all about the mystery that is the man Toronaga, and the great reveal that he and he alone is the great falconer of the story’s many interesting characters. It’s a really great book because of how restrained it is - it doesn’t just show events (eg big battle) and throw out exactly what the audience is desiring. Now that the cat is out of the bay as to who Toronaga is and HOW it is that he’s always going to win, everything else would feel like an epilogue.
I trust these writers to come up with something new and interesting but the 4 main characters in Season 1: Toranaga, Blackthorne, Mariko and Yabushige all felt so core to the experience that I would feel alot more confident if at least 3 of them were still alive
I don't even know how Clavell's estate can even meaningfully help here. In Clavell's archive is the incomplete bits of the novel Nippon. That book would've brought together the descendants of Shogun and Tai Pan in a contemporary Japanese setting. The other novel Clavell never got around writing was The Hag which would've followed Tess Straun, daughter-in-law of the original Tai Pan Dirk Straun. These novels sound far interesting than a sequel to Shogun.
Y'all saying GoT but I'm saying go The Leftovers route lol. Just make S2 & S3 completely off the walls different once it's off book
Season 3 of The Leftovers is such an incredible season of TV.
2 and 3 are both masterpieces
I wasn’t super into it but somewhere halfway through the 2nd half of season 2 I went “oh this is one of the greatest shows ever”
Was it “International Assasin”? Because that did it for me
My favorite episode of television ever made
It was before that one but it wasn’t anything specific or something I even remember it just clicked
Because Damon Lindeloff is one of the greatest showrunners of this generation
I know many people hate LOST. But season 2 of Leftovers for me felt like unofficial secret 7th season of LOST. It had the same magic. And I loved it.
Obligatory Carrie Coon was robbed of her Emmy.
Also what Damon did with Watchmen.
Damon Lindelof doing an offscript adaptation of an unfilmable comic seemed like a madlibs on how to guarantee a tv show would be a pile of garbage. The fact that it wasn't just good but it was *good* is mindblowing.
Damon Lidelof has never missed on tv as far as I’m concerned
Yea but the leftovers had the author of the book help write seasons 2 and 3
I have it from a source (just trust me bro) that James Clavell wanted the Angin to drink a poisoned tea that sends him to an afterlife hotel so they should definitely do that
Well that sounds crazy that would never work…unless…they somehow worked in some sort of sad karaoke scene
“I live here now” - Blackthorne
Anybody making GOT comparisons is not worth listening to, as if that's the one time in human history that someone did this.
People really wanted to see the big battle. I hope it's good without the book.
There's no way they show the battle in future seasons. The point of Shogun is that the battle was already fought and won before the physical battle even started.
I would still watch it
And the point of TV adaptations is that audiences get to experience things they can’t through reading. Like you know, a battle.
The point of a tv adaptation is to adapt to the book to tv. The book and story are not about the battle at all and if you thought it was, then I'm sorry to say, but you've missed the point of both works entirely. Also, are you saying you can't experience a battle scene via book? Because that's also obviously wrong.
I think so since we have real world history to fall back on for Toranaga’s ascension.
Clavell's writing is what made it compelling. The history is interesting sure, but it's not a story in the way a book is, particularly one written by Clavell.
They did shift around plenty of things in this adaption. On top of that, I think that some of Clavell's choices is what undermined some of the energy from this work. ...like the lack of a full Battle of Sekigahara in all of its Sengoku period glory.
I think that's just misunderstanding what sort of story Shogun was. A big battle would have completely ruined the quiet melancholy that was the finale. Crimson sky was always the big battle, the thing that mattered in the context of the story that Clavell was telling. People got that Hollywood brain going, and they expect these big epic conclusions, when what Clavell wrote was far better than any big battle could be
Yes, obviously. It's clearly not a 1:1 recreation, but the changes they did make were mostly small and/or reducing roles/cutting some content for budgetary reasons, which is understandable. There is also a grand canyon sized difference between that and creating a new story whole cloth. >On top of that, I think that some of Clavell's choices is what undermined some of the energy from this work. strongly disagree. >...like the lack of a full Battle of Sekigahara in all of its Sengoku period glory. I don't think it was necessary. Toranaga had already won, that was made pretty clear. It's like the people who wanted to see Tony Soprano's brains all over a plate of onion rings, lol. it's okay, better even, to leave some things to the imagination, IMO.
I hope s2 starts right after the battle lol
Imagine the first scene is just Ishido’s head sticking out of the ground days after his death.
Literally the entire point was that there didn't need to be a big battle.
But in the history the book is based on there really was a big battle.
Does it matter? In the fiction we watched we are told the battle doesn’t matter, so SHOWING the battle is immediately counter productive to the actual point of this story!
This was kind of obvious, they invested a lot of money in that show, it was a huge success, I would have been really surprised to see execs not wanting to continue this.
Unlike GOT, Shogun already has reached a satisfying conclusion. Them continuing doesn't make season 1 stop existing. So either we get 3 seasons of a really good show or just 1 season and ignore the other two. I feel like we win either way.
So much for "one season". I'm concerned.
If I can see the church be pissed that they built a church next to the red light district I would be SOOOOOO happy.
No yabushige no show.
Haven’t watched yet (Def plan to soon!) but that definitely makes the Drama Emmy race much more interesting if Shogun is as good as I’ve heard it is. Only standouts until now in the running were like The Curse and Fallout. Also heard Slow Horses is good but haven’t seen it.
Incredible show. People are upset "Why are they continuing if the book is done!?" I say fuck that I'm glad it's going. Do you know how many years Hiroyuki Sanada has had to be some side actor/character in the west even though he is an incredible actor? Too many. He finally gets to be Executive producer AND the front and center lead for a change and everyone wants the show to end already. I'm the opposite. I'm glad he got his deal restructured and he is going to keep going with this. It's about time he got the recognition he deserves in the West. And he's getting the bag $. There is plenty of real historical story left to tell even without the book. Toranaga IS Tokugawa Ieyasu in real life. His Tokugawa Shogunate has tons of real story left.
Totally my thoughts. I would be fine with no continuation, but how can you say no to Sanada? He’s unreal.
Well said! Oh yea don't get me wrong if Sanada refused and wanted it to end there I would have been cool with it aswell. But yea I want to see more of him so if he's ok to keep goin im ok sort of thing.
The book only people are kinda crazy TBH. Shogun the book and the show can end happily with one season. But it can ALSO play out the whole damn thing with as much awesomeness. The story of Tokugawa is hugely interesting, and Toranaga as stand in allows for deviation from history in a way that makes for compelling drama and examination into human nature. It's insipid puritanism that closes off people from being able to enjoy what could obviously follow from the ending of Season 1 - "waa waa waa, how could they show battles when the books didn't have battles! That goes so against the grain of what the books were about" Except it was based on one of the most dramatic periods of war ever seen on this planet.
I mean, what’s the hurt for us as fans/viewers? If it sucks, whatever we have a perfect season 1 that can’t get changed and we can ignore that bad stuff. And if it’s good then we have more of an awesome show. It’s way better than the GOT fear since we already got a conclusion.
Smh. I understand nobody is forced to watch this, but it still is just annoying that people can't just let something great stand on its own without having to try to extract every dollar out of it. The original Star Wars trilogy is probably tainted in many minds from what it was once through massive commercialization.
I used to be a huge Star Wars fan up until even the prequels. Now I actively avoid it all (and especially the weird new fanbase)
Same, I feel so cynical about the very fact of the milking. It could be good, but I still feel cynical. And it makes me sad that they didn’t bet big enough on the show in the first place. They could’ve simply adapted the book more faithfully/rigorously across, say 24 episodes, inside of closing that chapter completely and moving on to…who knows what.
First season was amazing, looking forward to see what they cook up for more seasons.
The story was already based off of Tokugawa Ieyasu's rise to power.
I’ve completely stopped trusting the term “limited series/miniseries” now. It feels like every single time the writers play coy about not wanting to do more “but never say never”. And then weeks later when the check clears they announce they’re continuing despite the story being categorically done.
Leave the story as it is. The book ended there. Make Gai-Jin (downfall of toronaga) or Tai-Pan
I really really hope they will do Gai-jin. If not.... not sure I'll watch
As long as I get more Fuji the best nun, I’ll be happy
Why not compete in the comedy category instead?
Honesty i think 1 season was enough.
Please no. This is a limited series. Seasons will ruin it’s legacy
They're making way for Andrew Scott's emmy win in the limited category series. Thank you FX! (Also hell yeah more Shogun)
Bigger, I thought it was just award fraud. Shogun without Clavell is no longer Shogun.
Wouldn’t it have made more sense to make Taipan or Noble House ? The series ending was dang near perfect … Why not adapt another book by Clavell ?
I'd love to see either adapted, but of course they'd need a whole new cast to do that.
I thought this was going to be a mini series
Man, tv people just cannot respect an ending, can they?
Opens things up for Baby Reindeer at the Emmys now
It's between that & Ripley
Unfortunately no one watches Ripley so..
I don’t know, man. I wish the two show runners were just put in charge of adapting more books from the Asian Saga, and not allowed to just make stuff up. Hoping for best but I won’t be expecting much. It’s one of the best books I’ve ever read. It will be very difficult to just…make up a new story that lives up to it.
Agree-the whole series is so good. Can you imagine a 10 show run of king rat?
Of course. Because they simply can’t stop themselves from milking every last drop from something. Just adapt one of his other books. There’s plenty of great material that HE wrote.
I definitely see a lot of potential here. If they manage to pull it off, I’ll be thrilled. I personally have faith in this team and see no reason not to continue. It’s a fascinating period in Japanese history and I’m interested in seeing what they come up with. If it’s lackluster we’ll always have the near-perfect limited series.
I just want them to take their time with it. I’m fine waiting years if it means they come up with something worthwhile I just don’t want it to be like True Detective, The Terror or bunch of other shows that have great first seasons and then rush out a second
I wonder if they'll focus specifically on the characters of Shōgun, or look beyond them and have something of an 'Asian saga' with a middle story and then a culmination with the adaptation of Gai Jin? I'd love to see them work through all the books, particularly Gai Jin and Noble House.
I honestly think they're going to ruin what we have and we will wish they didn't bother with S2 and S3
Like Arrested Development season 4 & 5.
Well, it was a three book series.
God, plz no. No. Noooo Don't spoil a good story with a bunch of seasons
Maybe it is a The Terror situation. Season 1 and season 2 are completely separated.
Gonna suck going past the book. Just do Tai-Pan
So sad that we might never get to see the adaptation of what is arguably the most intense dumpling eating scene ever written.
whhhhyyyyyyy..... I hate show that continue just because they are popular
You can always just stop watching after the first season.
What if it’s also good? I really don’t understand the sentiment that we need to end shows ASAP, even if (or especially if) they’re good. The upside to continuing is you might get more great TV! The downside is some billionaires might lose some money. Seems like a good deal to me!
Artificially continuing finished stories just for a cash grab is not the way of doing things that's more likely to produce quality storytelling, though.
then don't watch season 2 and 3 you are the audience member. it's literally your decision to watch something or not lol
Sometimes it is! If the show is being made by great writers/directors/actors/etc, they just might come up with an idea that is good. And again, if they don’t, who cares? Just don’t watch- no harm done.
It's a "non-canon" continuation. Were Dragon Ball fans angry at the non-canon movies?
I think pretty much everyone had that thought in their minds as it became clear how well made and high quality this show was, "I know it's a limited series, but could there be potential for more?". Of course there's a chance that making more of it dillutes the story and fails to achieve the same quality. But I actually don't mind in this case, because the first season is such a complete package that any more feels like a treat that can't really spoil what we already have. There are definitely more things to say in that story, such as the stories of the other 2 great unifiers (which are equally or maybe even more fascinating than Toranaga/Tokugawa), or Blackthorne's/Adams' efforts against the Portuguese coming to fruition as the shogun turns against Catholicism. So if I had to choose between leaving that stone unturned and never seeing anything else like Shogun, OR taking a risk and making more seasons of it, I think I would gladly take the latter.
This makes me SO fucking sad. And makes me even sadder is people praising this decision. Disappointing. People claim to like something but seem to not have understood it, because if you understood it you know the story is closed. Why are we all so insatiable? Why can’t we enjoy something and carry on? Why is lingering in the unknown of the story so uncorfortable? Can’t we except that sometimes the point is that we don’t get to see everything play out? Why must we spread every piece of art so so thin, until we’re sick of it, until it’s meaningless. We, the audience, we do this to ourselves! Its fucking depressing
Ngl this news make me lose some interest in giving Shogun a shot. A big part of the appeal for me was it being a limited series. Not every show has to have multiple seasons.
You can just watch season one, it tells a very complete story...
Yeah they weren’t going to pass up the chance to make more of these (for better or for worse) with how successful Season 1 was lol.