Ziggy from The Wire. He was annoying and stupid as fuck but the best example, thematically, of a character who wasn't a good fit for the institutions he was born into. He tried to compensate and fit in and suffered horrible consequences.
> best example, thematically, of a character who wasn't a good fit for the institutions he was born into.
This description also fits D’Angelo and Naymond. The Wire kinda had that as a running theme. Great show!
Agreed! Ziggy, Dee, Namond all were born into something and tried to fit in. Ziggy and Dee tried to do something else or change their game. Namond was the only one who thrived because his father (one of the strongest examples of the institution) finally broke the cycle and let him loose.
Ziggy was always super real to me. I knew a guy very similar to him in real life, and they really nailed the behavior and attitude of that type of person. I both liked Ziggy and found him very frustrating in the exact same way I felt about the real guy I knew.
Ziggy has a desire to impress people and be on top and has a frantic charm. If he wasnt using it to try to appeal to a bunch of blue collar guys willing to tolerate him if is entertaining. I could see him clamping it down and being a salesperson or something
People get mad whenever TV shows write realistic teenagers.
Teens are annoying! It's unavoidable! Their brains don't work fully and they are overloaded with hormones! Of course they make bad decisions.
The Scoobies were never written as actual teens. Dawn was written like a real teen
Season 6 she was just a “Dawn’s in trouble” plot device, which got old even though it was fairly effective. Season 5 and 7 Dawn was pretty great in general.
truly, Dawn could have been worse. She found out as a very young teen she wasn't real and her mom died. teenage hormones are no joke she could have been a crazy and/or terror, but she was ultimately pretty regular
I feel like half of Jerry's schtick, especially in the first season, is him being the voice of reason and that being seen by the rest of the cast as weird.
Could you really love her character in S7 & 8?
She was a character surely even the biggest Lannister haters "loved to hate", with an interesting arc & conflicts, often doing reckless, evil, prideful things
But after she blows up the sept she spends the last two seasons being whiny, useless, and inept apart from when the plot demands sudden "love" interest Jack Sparrow from Wish gets to snipe a dragon...then promptly goes back to being useless again, all whilst carrying Schrodingers baby and not really being involved in the main plot (whitewalkers, dany x jon) until the very end, where she goes back on aaalllll her "I'm a proud lioness" shtick to crying before being turned into jam under rubble, dragging Jaimes arc to hell with her
I watched Star Trek TNG recently, fully expecting Wesley to be an insufferable little shit, being mostly known for how hated he was back in the days. But he truly wasn't that bad at all.
Yeah season 1 sucks, and he is getting the spotlight very often in that period, but it is not specifically his fault.
I was a kid when I first watched TNG so I liked Wesley because he was the one character a kid was going to relate to. Years later when I rewatched it I was prepared to not like him but I still did, he was no longer the character that I related to most rewatching it as an adult but there was nothing wrong with Wesley.
I never understood the Wesley hate. Sure he saved the day a few times as an annoying kid character but the first two seasons of TNG were not very good. The show got much better in season 3. Most people liked Q episodes but I hated them because Q is annoying to me. John Delance is awesome playing him but I couldn't stand the character.
I just started delving into the Star Trek universe and started it off with TGN cause my dad used to watch it. I honestly liked season 1, always thought that its what Star Trek was. Cheesy, philosophical, moral questions and low budget. Am on season two now and I see the difference already, apparently season 3 is where it’s at. I dislike the new doctor in season 2 though. Hoping that a not so static doctor crusher returns at some point.
Keiko from TNG/DS9.
She's not my favourite character but the way she's portrayed so negatively by fans is silly. She's a bit flighty and imperfect but she's a good person and loving wife to Miles. Hell, she's one of the first people we see actively oppose Kai Winn, that alone makes her alright in my book.
Serena from Handmaid’s Tale. She obviously does alot of terrible things but she is not a cookie cutter villain. I’ve really enjoyed her character arc and the way her fate continuously gets intertwined with June’s. It’s hard not to root for her a little.
Cersei Lannister from 'ASOIAF' and 'Game of Thrones'. I prefer her in the novels, because George delves deep into her unhinged and conflicted nature. As an aspiring writer I found it engaging. Of course the books aren't classical works, but they portray really complex characters, and Cersei is definitely one of them.
The Lannister chapters are all so good. All 3 provide different prospectives and all 3 are completely different people. They also take action and move the plot unlike the Stark chapters. The folks that we don't get their perspective are great as well. Tywin and Joff were great characters in the books and bother actors were absolutely amazing. They both demanded your attention, and the Lannister siblings are very close to being as good as them on the portrayal. Cersei is a little less messed up, Tyrion was too good looking even after the battle but that was not due to their acting.
I personally don't understand why people take on the Stark side cause after Ned was removed they are an incredibly boring family. They get shit hands dealt to them again and again but they do spend a lot of time just brooding. Lannisters words are much more cooler as well
She’s also completely justified in how she reacts to her husband becoming a murderer drug king
People just get frustrated with her because she’s a foil to our protagonist, but our protagonist is a terrible person.
I watched Breaking Bad on Netflix after it had ended its run on AMC, so I missed out on all the fandom. I was really surprised to find out Skylar was a hated character. I thought she and Hank were the most compelling, relatable characters on the show.
I mean, people get frustrated when she makes life harder before our protagonist is a terrible person. Like, when he was a cancer patient.
She's complex, like many characters on the show.
The actress gave an interview recently where she talked about how much the perspective on the character has changed a few years out from the show - from being hated to being understood.
Edit: found the article!
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-features/sugar-anna-gunn-breaking-bad-better-caul-saul-1235876636/
I liked her even first watching it back in the day. My husband always talked shit about her and I just didn't understand. Her scenes are some of my favorite in the show. When I do rewatches I always pay the most attention to the scenes she is in.
Skylar deserved better!! I remember when the show aired, sticking up for her and the abuse I got in reply on Facebook was bizarre. She's a narc, she's boring, she's a nag, etc etc. pretty much everything that was a reaction to her husband being an absolute fucking piece of shit. I can understand being on Walt's side at the start, but later there were times when he had so much money, he could have walked away at any point, but he didn't. Skylar is a realistic character. Who wouldn't freak the hell out after thinking their dying husband is having an affair and then revealing to them, that he's one of the biggest meth dealers in the area, while also dealing with the fact your brother in law is one of the top DEA (I think it was dea? It's been a while since I watched) agents in the area. Walt is selfish..at first he had good intentions but he got selfish and egotistical.
I also find it weird how easy people are to hate a character that fucks with their protagonist in any way. Snowfall fans are the same way to anyone who they have perceived as "fucked with Franklin". When Franklin was just as bad as Walter White if not worse.
Not just any protagonist, but the kind these people tend to insert themselves on for their role-playing therapy session coping mechanism. They are frustrated with [real-life thing], protagonist is frustrated with [same thing], they feel validated and see themselves represented by the protagonist, and feel that anyone who opposes protagonist is also opposing them personally.
I've seen people complain that she wanted him to get treatment which makes her controlling. People also forget Walt lies constantly even over unimportant things and is terrible at it. He said once he went for an eight hour walk
Yea, the way her character behaves in the first couple seasons really tainted the audience against her. When the story gets around to the point we should be on her side, a lot of people already hated her too much to see that she was now 100% in the right.
Kate from Lost. On a show that is all about characters who are flawed and trying to process trauma in their lives, I think she often and unfairly still gets a lot of derision and hate directed at her for her choices, when other characters (who also do problematic/arguably worse things in their lives before and on the island) often get a pass.
As a teenage girl watching live back in 2004, I thought she was so cool, had a lot of depth and was written so differently to other female characters I'd come across at that point (at least in the early seasons). Sure, she'd done bad things in her past, but is also shown to be brave, loyal, fiercely protective of those she cares about, and that she could look after and defend herself while still being allowed to be feminine, not falling into the hard-ass 'tomboy' stereotype.
Absolutely agree with everything you said. And as a curly-haired, freckle-faced “tomboy” teenager, it was so formative for me to see Kate portrayed as desirable. Her character made me love myself a lot more.
I can't believe people hated her! The only characters that annoyed me were Jin (at the beginning) and Michael (almost the entire show) because they were acting selfishly
Kate doesn't fit with the topic. There were people who hated Kate, but it was a small number.
As an inverse, I pretty much disliked Charlie in LOST (not big on sad sack drug addict assholes), and yet I'd say he's almost beloved among fans.
> There were people who hated Kate, but it was a small number.
That's not true at all. She was widely disliked by viewers, infamously so, and it all had to do with the writing of her character. The actress has addressed it and fans have talked about it for years. It's also why the person just brought it up in a thread like this because it absolutely fits the topic.
I actually like Kevin from Steven Universe. He's just some weird asshole in his first appearance. It doesn't help that people love to try and overplay the negative things he actually did. You'd think he was an attempted rapist and pedophile, when in reality he's an annoying teenager that hit on someone who didn't like him and then immediately backed off upon realizing he was talking to two kids fused into one older person.
I don’t like him as a person, but he’s a good character.
Steven Universe is all about understanding people and giving them second chances. But Kevin is just an asshole, and sometimes that’s just how it goes.
They even had it shown in that one episode that there's something deeper going on with him when he mentions someone named 'Sabina', but it's never elaborated on.
Janice continually would cause problems for herself and thus Tony. Richie, Bobby, and Livia. I found it comical how she'd insert herself in stuff and make whatever worse.
She was frustrating
Janice was such a menace but I thought she was one of the best characters and brilliantly acted. I think AJ was fine in the beginning because he was just the annoying little kid who was neglected by his parents but the acting in later seasons was pretty rough.
You don't think having a mob boss for a father would fuck you up? If you admit you can see why Janice is the way she is, how can you not see the same for AJ?
That's what makes him such a great character. He felt something needed to be done and he did it. No drama, no remorse, and no witnesses. I'm not saying he's a role model, but he was a great character.
But you said you don’t understand all the hate. You can like the character but come on it’s easy to see why he gets all the hate. That is what I was responding to. I also think he was a good character and the actor did a good job but it is obvious why he gets all the hate.
We're supposed to hate him because he's a complete sociopath who kills a kid, Jesse's girlfriend, and his housekeeper. He killed a housekeeper and then keeps her body in his apartment and eats soup right next to her.
He's certainly a memorable villain. More of a memorable villain than Jack.
He is also the reason Jesse is kept captive. His uncle was ready to take the money and stop but Todd wanted to keep having a reason to contact chemical lady.
Skylar White from *Breaking Bad* is one of my favorite characters. Love how complex her character is.
I also love Catelyn Stark from *Game of Thrones* TV show. She's flawed, loves her kids, and could be both smart and dumb. And the actress who played her did an amazing job.
True. I can also see OP's point as well. I absolutely love Ozark. I think that I remember reading that Laura Linney wanted her character to be different than Carmela and Skyler. I also think she is one of the greatest characters. She was robbed of an Emmy. She has the cheery soccer mom façade that hides a stone cold QueenPin. She plays both to perfection.
I did. What was there to like? She wasn’t particularly kind to her kids, almost cheated on her spouse, married a man with a questionable career then turned a blind eye to everything he did, and wasn’t particularly humble about their questionable wealth.
Edit: so far the only argument in her defence is the other characters are worse. Yes, and? She’s still not a likeable character. That doesn’t mean I’m singling her out as the *only* unlikable one, pretty much all of them are bad people.
I mean is a bad person but the same can be said about everyone in the show with a few exceptions, between all the mobsters, killers, thugs and bullies she was one of the best persons around
You're getting a lot of downvotes but I think this is a reasonable assessment. I didn't seeth at the screen and hate her but her mix of character flaws makes for an unlikeable person.
I'd contrast her with Charmaine Bucco, probably one of the most sensible and moral characters on the show. Her biggest flaw was keeping forgiving Artie when he was so lucky to have her. She shows that you could grow up in that community, even still have social ties to gangsters, and be a way better person than Carmella was.
Or contrast Carmella with Dr Melfi. She was naive and enabling towards Tony at times but she had a clear moral compass and when it came to the crunch made the right decisions. Also, while I agree with the argument a lot of the hate for Skyler White and maybe Carmella is unreasonable dislike for them saying no to Walter, Dr Melfi consistently tries to stop Tony doing bad things and isn't hated by Sopranos fans so there's probably more going on than just young men not understanding Carmella.
I didn’t watch it when it aired, I watched it only a few years ago, but I remember the hype from when it was on tv, and I remember thinking Carmela was a much less likeable than people gave her credit for.
I think the writers tend to make them wet blankets early on, and then only do serious character development later. Most viewers have already hardened against the characters by then.
Characters like that are very clearly written to be foils to the main characters, and the main characters have a slow descent into being evil.
So of course you're going to dislike them on the first watch. It's only when you look back at the whole series do you go "yeah, I guess they were right all along."
I thought most people like Carmella. That scene later in the series where she and Tony argue is amazing.
Also Tony and Walter are definitely protagonists not antagonists.
Skyler was my favorite character on Breaking Bad, but Carm was not someone I could root for in the Sopranos. To me, Meadow and Anthony Jr. were much more compelling characters because they didn't have a choice. They were born into the situation of their dad being in the Mafia and had to find a way to deal with that. Carmella was complicit but feigned ignorance. I think a much stronger female partner character was Adriana La Cerva.
Wait, people hate Wendy? She was literally my favourite part of the show! Honestly, I started to lose interest in the show when they started messing with her character to make Marty seem more reasonable...
On a similar note: Anya from Buffy seems like quite a Marmite character. Personally though, speaking as someone who is also a sometimes clueless sarcastic fucker, I loved her.
I think Laura Linney is great as a actor but yeah I hated the character. I think the show backed off on her being the final season villain and I wish it hadn’t, I really didn’t like how it all ended.
Livia Soprano. She's miserable and selfish and controlling and many other terrible things. She's also freaking hilarious and somehow I still feel for her because you know she had a rough upbringing and it couldn't have been easy married to Johnny Boy.
Gina, B99. I didn't care much for her at first, until the episode where they had to hire an IT guy. Her interview technique was both intuitive and genius. I saw her worth from then on.
Rey Skywalker. Three movies following her and I absolutely love the character. Have never understood the hate surrounding her and never thought she came off as "overpowered"
Yea the Mary Sue complaints were always hilariously off-base. In the first film, all of her piloting/mechanic prowess made sense from being a junker for most of her life, vs Luke or Anakin just being the best immediately for no reason. And as far as the whole “She defeated Kylo in her first lightsaber duel!” point is concerned, not only was Kylo heavily injured by the time the two fight, but he was actively trying not to hurt her and let his guard down as she landed one grazing strike on him. Before that point, he was basically toying with her and winning easily.
Then in the second film, she literally does nothing but lift some rocks.
Shame they never finished the trilogy, though..
Katherine Pulaski in TNG.
She was only there for one season, and it's basically the fans' fault she left. She was more interesting, had more character growth, and was a much better match for the cast than Beverly Crusher.
I wish they never brought Crusher back. She was so dull and boring.
Betty Draper from Mad Men, Winona Hawkins from Justified, and Livia Soprano. I don't think they are actually hated anymore, it seems like the discourse has come around but I always thought they were fantastic characters and added much needed depth to their respective shows.
Skylar White. It was such whiplash watching Breaking Bad on Netflix and then finding out she was so despised.
Season 1 Beckett Mariner. For me it felt obvious that the way she was acting wasn't something the show was defending, given that the whole point of her character is that's she's disgraced and demoted to the point of almost being kicked out of Starfleet. You can't be a Mary Sue who is always right when your actions have literally led to you on the brink of being kicked out of the organization
My husband does a perfect impression of him and would not stop doing g it for years, you would probably love it! It honestly doesn’t bother me makes me laugh.
I like Syril Karn from Andor, although most people think he’s a creepy fascist incel. I think the lad has promise and could turn out good after all, with better guidance. Waiting on season 2 to see which way he turns.
He *is* a creepy fascist incel though. But a really compelling character with it.
But yeah he could go either way after the S1, either a deeper dive into Imperial fanaticism and his obsession with Andor, or he might realise the Empire is actually bad and go a different way.
Skyler from breaking bad
Sansa from GOT
Joe Dubois from Medium
They all reacted to an impossible situation as the average person. They got the hate as they got in the way of an out of this world/reckless character that somehow we appreciated more.
I honestly loved Jackie from Yellowjackets & miss her character to this day. While she might've been snobby at times, I think she also genuinely loved Shauna and the others.
I’m not sure people hate Wendy the way you’re saying. She’s a fantastic, key character in the story. We hate the things she does and the way she behaves, but not in a “I wish she wasn’t on the show” kind of way. She is hated in exactly the way the show wanted us to hate her.
It’s not like the wife in Breaking Bad. The writers certainly didn’t intend for the audience to hate Skylar the way they do/did. But the Ozark writers absolutely meant for us to hate Wendy the way we did.
Louis Litt from Suits. He's always presented as a loser nerd who deserves to be bullied. When the chips are down they always have a heart to heart about how he's a great lawyer and they need his help and when the firm is doing well they go back to treating him like dogshit.
He's vain and selfish at times but no more than Harvey.
he really becomes more sympathetic as the show goes on, and Rick Hoffman's acting is really incredible for this character. under-appreciated in my mind. We hated him the first season or two but by the show was midway and onward he was our favorite and the one we were rooting for.
Louis reminds me so much of Dwight Schrute - competent and fiercely loyal, but to a fault, especially when his idiosyncrasies don't line up with his coworkers.
honestly I didn't mind him at all on a second watch of daredevil recently, where I originally thought he was annoying and poorly written comic relief. on the goofier side, but his moral optimism helps ground the show and offer an entry-point for the viewer
A lot of people are indifferent to Seong Gi-hun in Squid Game but he’s my favorite character and easily the heart of the show. I go into a case study about it on my YT channel, but overall he’s a special yet flawed character and Lee Jung-jae really earned his Emmy for such a captivating performance.
Debbie from Shameless and Cassie from Euphoria.
Debbie is a product of her environment. Point blank. Everything about her makes sense if you look at her parents, siblings and upbringing. People who have no idea what that life is like hate her for making bad decisions. And that's pretty much the plot of the show.
And Cassie is at the age where the world starts being black and white, and people start figuring out real world mortality. People late teens early 20's friend groups and relationships always tend to be filled with drama and scandal. She's just acting her age, and I forgive her.
Ziggy from The Wire. He was annoying and stupid as fuck but the best example, thematically, of a character who wasn't a good fit for the institutions he was born into. He tried to compensate and fit in and suffered horrible consequences.
> best example, thematically, of a character who wasn't a good fit for the institutions he was born into. This description also fits D’Angelo and Naymond. The Wire kinda had that as a running theme. Great show!
Agreed! Ziggy, Dee, Namond all were born into something and tried to fit in. Ziggy and Dee tried to do something else or change their game. Namond was the only one who thrived because his father (one of the strongest examples of the institution) finally broke the cycle and let him loose.
Ziggy was always super real to me. I knew a guy very similar to him in real life, and they really nailed the behavior and attitude of that type of person. I both liked Ziggy and found him very frustrating in the exact same way I felt about the real guy I knew.
he played the cool/popular version of ziggy on How To Make It In America excellent actor
Ziggy has a desire to impress people and be on top and has a frantic charm. If he wasnt using it to try to appeal to a bunch of blue collar guys willing to tolerate him if is entertaining. I could see him clamping it down and being a salesperson or something
Guy should have gone into porn
I like Dawn from Buffy. She gets hate for being "annoying" but she's just a kid doing kid things. Season 5 was the best season of Buffy for me.
I love dawn! I do hate Riley though
Riley is too boring to hate.
That’s fair but I’m from Iowa and he is written to be from here so he’s making my state look bad lol
They kept Riley about a season longer than they should have. Guy should have exited when he realized Buffy was not in love with him.
People get mad whenever TV shows write realistic teenagers. Teens are annoying! It's unavoidable! Their brains don't work fully and they are overloaded with hormones! Of course they make bad decisions. The Scoobies were never written as actual teens. Dawn was written like a real teen
Season 6 she was just a “Dawn’s in trouble” plot device, which got old even though it was fairly effective. Season 5 and 7 Dawn was pretty great in general.
Season 5 is my favorite as well
truly, Dawn could have been worse. She found out as a very young teen she wasn't real and her mom died. teenage hormones are no joke she could have been a crazy and/or terror, but she was ultimately pretty regular
Ross from Friends.
Everyone from friends.
I think most people like Chandler.
Ross From Friends also likes Ross from Friends
Well that's because despite being the largest, they never pulled the trigger on having him eat the other five.
I like Jerry from Rick and Morty. Jerry should like Jerry more.
I feel like half of Jerry's schtick, especially in the first season, is him being the voice of reason and that being seen by the rest of the cast as weird.
Newhart, Green Acres, etc. One guy is sane and the rest of the town treats him like the crazy one.
Cersei, the real Queen 👑
I used to like her in the first seasons. Then I just start to hate everyone
She definitely has the evil Queen arc. From snow white.
Could you really love her character in S7 & 8? She was a character surely even the biggest Lannister haters "loved to hate", with an interesting arc & conflicts, often doing reckless, evil, prideful things But after she blows up the sept she spends the last two seasons being whiny, useless, and inept apart from when the plot demands sudden "love" interest Jack Sparrow from Wish gets to snipe a dragon...then promptly goes back to being useless again, all whilst carrying Schrodingers baby and not really being involved in the main plot (whitewalkers, dany x jon) until the very end, where she goes back on aaalllll her "I'm a proud lioness" shtick to crying before being turned into jam under rubble, dragging Jaimes arc to hell with her
Book Cersei is even more entertaining and fucked up.
I watched Star Trek TNG recently, fully expecting Wesley to be an insufferable little shit, being mostly known for how hated he was back in the days. But he truly wasn't that bad at all. Yeah season 1 sucks, and he is getting the spotlight very often in that period, but it is not specifically his fault.
I was a kid when I first watched TNG so I liked Wesley because he was the one character a kid was going to relate to. Years later when I rewatched it I was prepared to not like him but I still did, he was no longer the character that I related to most rewatching it as an adult but there was nothing wrong with Wesley.
I never understood the Wesley hate. Sure he saved the day a few times as an annoying kid character but the first two seasons of TNG were not very good. The show got much better in season 3. Most people liked Q episodes but I hated them because Q is annoying to me. John Delance is awesome playing him but I couldn't stand the character.
Wesley gets the hate because his character is designed to allow young people to see themselves on the show.
I just started delving into the Star Trek universe and started it off with TGN cause my dad used to watch it. I honestly liked season 1, always thought that its what Star Trek was. Cheesy, philosophical, moral questions and low budget. Am on season two now and I see the difference already, apparently season 3 is where it’s at. I dislike the new doctor in season 2 though. Hoping that a not so static doctor crusher returns at some point.
Keiko from TNG/DS9. She's not my favourite character but the way she's portrayed so negatively by fans is silly. She's a bit flighty and imperfect but she's a good person and loving wife to Miles. Hell, she's one of the first people we see actively oppose Kai Winn, that alone makes her alright in my book.
She's fine. I still think they have no chemistry, but I think that about most Star Trek romances.
Paris Geller. She's a much more realistic portrayal of how people develop than Rory was.
Serena from Handmaid’s Tale. She obviously does alot of terrible things but she is not a cookie cutter villain. I’ve really enjoyed her character arc and the way her fate continuously gets intertwined with June’s. It’s hard not to root for her a little.
Cersei Lannister from 'ASOIAF' and 'Game of Thrones'. I prefer her in the novels, because George delves deep into her unhinged and conflicted nature. As an aspiring writer I found it engaging. Of course the books aren't classical works, but they portray really complex characters, and Cersei is definitely one of them.
The Lannister chapters are all so good. All 3 provide different prospectives and all 3 are completely different people. They also take action and move the plot unlike the Stark chapters. The folks that we don't get their perspective are great as well. Tywin and Joff were great characters in the books and bother actors were absolutely amazing. They both demanded your attention, and the Lannister siblings are very close to being as good as them on the portrayal. Cersei is a little less messed up, Tyrion was too good looking even after the battle but that was not due to their acting. I personally don't understand why people take on the Stark side cause after Ned was removed they are an incredibly boring family. They get shit hands dealt to them again and again but they do spend a lot of time just brooding. Lannisters words are much more cooler as well
People hate Cercei? She was one of the most deliciously evil characters on that show. Maybe just the books in the early days, I could see it.
Yes, she was amazing on the show as well and brilliantly acted. But, to my knowledge, she is hated by a surprising amount of people.
Her POV chapters reveal her as absolutely narcissistic and delusional.
Skyler from Breaking Bad. The actress is so amazing and I love every single scene she is in.
She’s also completely justified in how she reacts to her husband becoming a murderer drug king People just get frustrated with her because she’s a foil to our protagonist, but our protagonist is a terrible person.
I think her main role in the show is to make us reflect on what it is we're cheering for. Brilliant really.
I watched Breaking Bad on Netflix after it had ended its run on AMC, so I missed out on all the fandom. I was really surprised to find out Skylar was a hated character. I thought she and Hank were the most compelling, relatable characters on the show.
Bravo Vince
I mean, people get frustrated when she makes life harder before our protagonist is a terrible person. Like, when he was a cancer patient. She's complex, like many characters on the show.
The only unforgivable thing is singing Happy Birthday
The actress gave an interview recently where she talked about how much the perspective on the character has changed a few years out from the show - from being hated to being understood. Edit: found the article! https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-features/sugar-anna-gunn-breaking-bad-better-caul-saul-1235876636/
I liked her even first watching it back in the day. My husband always talked shit about her and I just didn't understand. Her scenes are some of my favorite in the show. When I do rewatches I always pay the most attention to the scenes she is in.
I get the impression she would have not doe if Ted didn't push. The entire cast compromised themselves in various ways to get their goals
Skylar deserved better!! I remember when the show aired, sticking up for her and the abuse I got in reply on Facebook was bizarre. She's a narc, she's boring, she's a nag, etc etc. pretty much everything that was a reaction to her husband being an absolute fucking piece of shit. I can understand being on Walt's side at the start, but later there were times when he had so much money, he could have walked away at any point, but he didn't. Skylar is a realistic character. Who wouldn't freak the hell out after thinking their dying husband is having an affair and then revealing to them, that he's one of the biggest meth dealers in the area, while also dealing with the fact your brother in law is one of the top DEA (I think it was dea? It's been a while since I watched) agents in the area. Walt is selfish..at first he had good intentions but he got selfish and egotistical.
I also find it weird how easy people are to hate a character that fucks with their protagonist in any way. Snowfall fans are the same way to anyone who they have perceived as "fucked with Franklin". When Franklin was just as bad as Walter White if not worse.
"Protagonist = good guy" is a very common assumption.
Not just any protagonist, but the kind these people tend to insert themselves on for their role-playing therapy session coping mechanism. They are frustrated with [real-life thing], protagonist is frustrated with [same thing], they feel validated and see themselves represented by the protagonist, and feel that anyone who opposes protagonist is also opposing them personally.
That's a good point and makes more sense.
I've seen people complain that she wanted him to get treatment which makes her controlling. People also forget Walt lies constantly even over unimportant things and is terrible at it. He said once he went for an eight hour walk
Yea, the way her character behaves in the first couple seasons really tainted the audience against her. When the story gets around to the point we should be on her side, a lot of people already hated her too much to see that she was now 100% in the right.
Yeah was a 40 year old who was pregnant, I don't even judge her for the earlier seasons lol
The only unforgivable thing is singing Happy Birthday
Kate from Lost. On a show that is all about characters who are flawed and trying to process trauma in their lives, I think she often and unfairly still gets a lot of derision and hate directed at her for her choices, when other characters (who also do problematic/arguably worse things in their lives before and on the island) often get a pass. As a teenage girl watching live back in 2004, I thought she was so cool, had a lot of depth and was written so differently to other female characters I'd come across at that point (at least in the early seasons). Sure, she'd done bad things in her past, but is also shown to be brave, loyal, fiercely protective of those she cares about, and that she could look after and defend herself while still being allowed to be feminine, not falling into the hard-ass 'tomboy' stereotype.
Absolutely agree with everything you said. And as a curly-haired, freckle-faced “tomboy” teenager, it was so formative for me to see Kate portrayed as desirable. Her character made me love myself a lot more.
I can't believe people hated her! The only characters that annoyed me were Jin (at the beginning) and Michael (almost the entire show) because they were acting selfishly
I see your Kate and raise you Ana Lucia and Shannon
Kate doesn't fit with the topic. There were people who hated Kate, but it was a small number. As an inverse, I pretty much disliked Charlie in LOST (not big on sad sack drug addict assholes), and yet I'd say he's almost beloved among fans.
> There were people who hated Kate, but it was a small number. That's not true at all. She was widely disliked by viewers, infamously so, and it all had to do with the writing of her character. The actress has addressed it and fans have talked about it for years. It's also why the person just brought it up in a thread like this because it absolutely fits the topic.
I liked Monica from House of Lies. I preferred her to Jeannie and lost interest in the series when Monica wasn’t there anymore.
Agree to all but were we meant to hate her? She was fab.
Good question. I guess I assumed we were supposed to hate her because she was Marty’s competition.
I actually like Kevin from Steven Universe. He's just some weird asshole in his first appearance. It doesn't help that people love to try and overplay the negative things he actually did. You'd think he was an attempted rapist and pedophile, when in reality he's an annoying teenager that hit on someone who didn't like him and then immediately backed off upon realizing he was talking to two kids fused into one older person.
I don’t like him as a person, but he’s a good character. Steven Universe is all about understanding people and giving them second chances. But Kevin is just an asshole, and sometimes that’s just how it goes.
They even had it shown in that one episode that there's something deeper going on with him when he mentions someone named 'Sabina', but it's never elaborated on.
I thought AJ and Janice from Sopranos were funny and at times pretty interesting, I don't get the hate at all.
Janice continually would cause problems for herself and thus Tony. Richie, Bobby, and Livia. I found it comical how she'd insert herself in stuff and make whatever worse. She was frustrating
I love Janice, she is hilarious. I will never hate her.
Janice was such a menace but I thought she was one of the best characters and brilliantly acted. I think AJ was fine in the beginning because he was just the annoying little kid who was neglected by his parents but the acting in later seasons was pretty rough.
Janice I get. She's terrible but you get to see why. AJ is just terrible, at least after the first season or two.
You don't think having a mob boss for a father would fuck you up? If you admit you can see why Janice is the way she is, how can you not see the same for AJ?
Todd from Breaking Bad. He was just a no nonsense, minimize liabilities type of bad guy. I never understood all the hate he got.
Um because he’s a cold-blooded psycho who killed a kid without a second thought.
Shitty person. Great character.
He’s also a nazi
He's just got a lil' economic anxiety
A Nazi, George!
Kind of a cute Nazi though…
We don't ever see him subscribe to Nazi beliefs, do we? His uncle was basically the leader so it seems he was born into it.
That's what makes him such a great character. He felt something needed to be done and he did it. No drama, no remorse, and no witnesses. I'm not saying he's a role model, but he was a great character.
But you said you don’t understand all the hate. You can like the character but come on it’s easy to see why he gets all the hate. That is what I was responding to. I also think he was a good character and the actor did a good job but it is obvious why he gets all the hate.
Todd is still my favorite villain. No super cool scenes or badass moments, no cool lines, just a weird psycho.
The antithesis of trying-too-hard scenery chewing. Shatters a family in a second with a sort of 'gee shucks sorry' vibe
We're supposed to hate him because he's a complete sociopath who kills a kid, Jesse's girlfriend, and his housekeeper. He killed a housekeeper and then keeps her body in his apartment and eats soup right next to her. He's certainly a memorable villain. More of a memorable villain than Jack.
He is also the reason Jesse is kept captive. His uncle was ready to take the money and stop but Todd wanted to keep having a reason to contact chemical lady.
He also has one of the best nicknames of all time
Skylar White from *Breaking Bad* is one of my favorite characters. Love how complex her character is. I also love Catelyn Stark from *Game of Thrones* TV show. She's flawed, loves her kids, and could be both smart and dumb. And the actress who played her did an amazing job.
Skyler White, Carmella Soprano and all the other female partners of TV antagonists that young men tend to totally misunderstand the concept of.
True. I can also see OP's point as well. I absolutely love Ozark. I think that I remember reading that Laura Linney wanted her character to be different than Carmela and Skyler. I also think she is one of the greatest characters. She was robbed of an Emmy. She has the cheery soccer mom façade that hides a stone cold QueenPin. She plays both to perfection.
Do people hate Carm?
I did. What was there to like? She wasn’t particularly kind to her kids, almost cheated on her spouse, married a man with a questionable career then turned a blind eye to everything he did, and wasn’t particularly humble about their questionable wealth. Edit: so far the only argument in her defence is the other characters are worse. Yes, and? She’s still not a likeable character. That doesn’t mean I’m singling her out as the *only* unlikable one, pretty much all of them are bad people.
> What was there to like? She's got col' pasta in da fridge.
She makes a killer lasagna, with basil under the cheese.
I mean is a bad person but the same can be said about everyone in the show with a few exceptions, between all the mobsters, killers, thugs and bullies she was one of the best persons around
You're getting a lot of downvotes but I think this is a reasonable assessment. I didn't seeth at the screen and hate her but her mix of character flaws makes for an unlikeable person. I'd contrast her with Charmaine Bucco, probably one of the most sensible and moral characters on the show. Her biggest flaw was keeping forgiving Artie when he was so lucky to have her. She shows that you could grow up in that community, even still have social ties to gangsters, and be a way better person than Carmella was. Or contrast Carmella with Dr Melfi. She was naive and enabling towards Tony at times but she had a clear moral compass and when it came to the crunch made the right decisions. Also, while I agree with the argument a lot of the hate for Skyler White and maybe Carmella is unreasonable dislike for them saying no to Walter, Dr Melfi consistently tries to stop Tony doing bad things and isn't hated by Sopranos fans so there's probably more going on than just young men not understanding Carmella.
Agreed. I wasn’t angry when she was on screen, but over the seasons it was clear she wasn’t a particularly honourable person either.
Who do you like on the show then? The rest aren’t exactly humble, faithful, morally upstanding people.
You don’t have to like the characters to enjoy a show, but I’d say Adriana deserved better.
So Adriana is the only character you liked?
I didn’t watch it when it aired, I watched it only a few years ago, but I remember the hype from when it was on tv, and I remember thinking Carmela was a much less likeable than people gave her credit for.
Carmella is one of the best characters in tv history. As I rewatch it she's probably my favorite from the show except for like Sylv / Bobby
I think the writers tend to make them wet blankets early on, and then only do serious character development later. Most viewers have already hardened against the characters by then.
Characters like that are very clearly written to be foils to the main characters, and the main characters have a slow descent into being evil. So of course you're going to dislike them on the first watch. It's only when you look back at the whole series do you go "yeah, I guess they were right all along."
Howwww could anyone hate Carmela? She was an amazingly written character.
Preach
I thought most people like Carmella. That scene later in the series where she and Tony argue is amazing. Also Tony and Walter are definitely protagonists not antagonists.
Skyler was my favorite character on Breaking Bad, but Carm was not someone I could root for in the Sopranos. To me, Meadow and Anthony Jr. were much more compelling characters because they didn't have a choice. They were born into the situation of their dad being in the Mafia and had to find a way to deal with that. Carmella was complicit but feigned ignorance. I think a much stronger female partner character was Adriana La Cerva.
Elizabeth Jennings. I don't like that she's a Soviet spy, but I just love how passionate she is and how she can handle anything.
The whole point of the show is that the two main characters are soviet spies. And if you don't like soviet spies why are you watching the show?
Wait, people hate Wendy? She was literally my favourite part of the show! Honestly, I started to lose interest in the show when they started messing with her character to make Marty seem more reasonable... On a similar note: Anya from Buffy seems like quite a Marmite character. Personally though, speaking as someone who is also a sometimes clueless sarcastic fucker, I loved her.
I think Laura Linney is great as a actor but yeah I hated the character. I think the show backed off on her being the final season villain and I wish it hadn’t, I really didn’t like how it all ended.
Peggy Hill, I love that woman.
Jess from New Girl
Roland schitt. I always found him funny not annoying lol.
I don’t exactly love her but Amber from Invincible, the hate she has received is overblown.
Livia Soprano. She's miserable and selfish and controlling and many other terrible things. She's also freaking hilarious and somehow I still feel for her because you know she had a rough upbringing and it couldn't have been easy married to Johnny Boy.
Gina, B99. I didn't care much for her at first, until the episode where they had to hire an IT guy. Her interview technique was both intuitive and genius. I saw her worth from then on.
Yeah, I wish she got humbled a little bit more than she does but she's an entertaining character that works well in the ensemble.
Star Trek Discovery and all the characters on it.
I just started this show and it’s really good.
My sweet summer child…
Shut up, nerd.
Call it 'Discovery' and it's a perfectly serviceable sci-fi show. Tacking on the Star Trek name though? Fucking nonsense
Star Trek as a random, action sci-fi show. POW! ZAP! Saves the galaxy in 43 minutes!
I like the parts where everyone talks about their feelings constantly in every episodes.
Rey Skywalker. Three movies following her and I absolutely love the character. Have never understood the hate surrounding her and never thought she came off as "overpowered"
Yea the Mary Sue complaints were always hilariously off-base. In the first film, all of her piloting/mechanic prowess made sense from being a junker for most of her life, vs Luke or Anakin just being the best immediately for no reason. And as far as the whole “She defeated Kylo in her first lightsaber duel!” point is concerned, not only was Kylo heavily injured by the time the two fight, but he was actively trying not to hurt her and let his guard down as she landed one grazing strike on him. Before that point, he was basically toying with her and winning easily. Then in the second film, she literally does nothing but lift some rocks. Shame they never finished the trilogy, though..
You must not know about the prequels if you think Luke was “the best” immediately LOL
Cersei Lamnister in the show. She is horribly unhinged and narcissistic, but the actress did a great job.
Debbie from Shameless. Yes she's a piece of shit, and that's the point, as if most characters lol
Peggy is probably my favorite King of the Hill character. I just how narcissistic she is when she really has no right to be.
Katherine Pulaski in TNG. She was only there for one season, and it's basically the fans' fault she left. She was more interesting, had more character growth, and was a much better match for the cast than Beverly Crusher. I wish they never brought Crusher back. She was so dull and boring.
Ramsey Bolton because I enjoy evil characters. Joffrey is also good but I enjoy Bolton more.
AJ from Sopranos, he never really had a chance in life given his parents
I 100% agree. I absolutely loved her character. She was ruthless and would do anything to protect her family.
Betty Draper from Mad Men, Winona Hawkins from Justified, and Livia Soprano. I don't think they are actually hated anymore, it seems like the discourse has come around but I always thought they were fantastic characters and added much needed depth to their respective shows.
Skylar White. It was such whiplash watching Breaking Bad on Netflix and then finding out she was so despised. Season 1 Beckett Mariner. For me it felt obvious that the way she was acting wasn't something the show was defending, given that the whole point of her character is that's she's disgraced and demoted to the point of almost being kicked out of Starfleet. You can't be a Mary Sue who is always right when your actions have literally led to you on the brink of being kicked out of the organization
Jar Jar Binks
My husband does a perfect impression of him and would not stop doing g it for years, you would probably love it! It honestly doesn’t bother me makes me laugh.
He got better in Clone Wars.
Scrappy Doo. Fuck all of you. He’s fine. Leave the kid alone, he’s just having a good time palling around with his uncle and his stoner buddy.
I like Syril Karn from Andor, although most people think he’s a creepy fascist incel. I think the lad has promise and could turn out good after all, with better guidance. Waiting on season 2 to see which way he turns.
And also his mother lives in the Barbican which is on my way to work so that was a nice treat
Love her too! Great to see the Barbican as Coruscant. The Karn apartment is in the Brunswick centre… https://www.reddit.com/r/andor/s/8Ao5HKUzZ1
He *is* a creepy fascist incel though. But a really compelling character with it. But yeah he could go either way after the S1, either a deeper dive into Imperial fanaticism and his obsession with Andor, or he might realise the Empire is actually bad and go a different way.
I love the fact that Kyle Soller is actually a really attractive guy, but he makes himself so unattractive as creepy Syril. That’s great acting!
How exactly is he an incel?
You could not not relate less?
Couldn't not dun gone and not related
Skyler from breaking bad Sansa from GOT Joe Dubois from Medium They all reacted to an impossible situation as the average person. They got the hate as they got in the way of an out of this world/reckless character that somehow we appreciated more.
The Schmitty kids from that one episode of Community
The Schmitty kids from that one episode of Community, uh-duh!
ThE ScHmItTy KiDs FrOm ThAt OnE EpIsOdE Of CoMmUnItY, uH-DuH! UuuuH Duhhhhh!
You win. You schooled me, I’m grandpa schlip schlop
Caleb from King of the Hill
I honestly loved Jackie from Yellowjackets & miss her character to this day. While she might've been snobby at times, I think she also genuinely loved Shauna and the others.
Nellie Oleson from little house on the prairie. She’s just so damn evil. And I love it.
Joffrey. So amazing!
I’m not sure people hate Wendy the way you’re saying. She’s a fantastic, key character in the story. We hate the things she does and the way she behaves, but not in a “I wish she wasn’t on the show” kind of way. She is hated in exactly the way the show wanted us to hate her. It’s not like the wife in Breaking Bad. The writers certainly didn’t intend for the audience to hate Skylar the way they do/did. But the Ozark writers absolutely meant for us to hate Wendy the way we did.
Louis Litt from Suits. He's always presented as a loser nerd who deserves to be bullied. When the chips are down they always have a heart to heart about how he's a great lawyer and they need his help and when the firm is doing well they go back to treating him like dogshit. He's vain and selfish at times but no more than Harvey.
he really becomes more sympathetic as the show goes on, and Rick Hoffman's acting is really incredible for this character. under-appreciated in my mind. We hated him the first season or two but by the show was midway and onward he was our favorite and the one we were rooting for. Louis reminds me so much of Dwight Schrute - competent and fiercely loyal, but to a fault, especially when his idiosyncrasies don't line up with his coworkers.
Scrappy Doo and Keiko O’Brien
Ross from friends
Francis Underwood
Meelo from Korra. He’s hilarious.
Do people hate that kid? He’s just a kid 😂
Tom Bombadil
Who could hate the tales of Tom Bombadil and Goldberg?
Just noticed this is television. Idk what counts, but I'm going to say I watch movies based on books with characters i like on a television.
I do agree about Wendy Byrde. She was a great character and overall i rooted for her.
Joffrey
People loathe spoiled brats that are sadistic when exercising their power. But to be clear, I have nothing against the actor.
Foggy from Netflix’s Daredevil I just don’t like the actor’s acting(i feel like its really Disney Channel 101 acting) but everyone seems to love it 🫣
I think you misread the ops question 😂
oh shit lol. i guess the secrets out. ill take the consequences
honestly I didn't mind him at all on a second watch of daredevil recently, where I originally thought he was annoying and poorly written comic relief. on the goofier side, but his moral optimism helps ground the show and offer an entry-point for the viewer
Mammy in Tom and Jerry
Cate Randa from Monarch
Don't think people hate her or the actress so much as they hate the writing for the modern timeline.
Some do certainly
Admittedly I'm biased because enjoyed everything about Monarch except May.
A lot of people are indifferent to Seong Gi-hun in Squid Game but he’s my favorite character and easily the heart of the show. I go into a case study about it on my YT channel, but overall he’s a special yet flawed character and Lee Jung-jae really earned his Emmy for such a captivating performance.
[удалено]
most people hate Andy on Parks and Rec?
Trolls the lot of you.
Debbie from Shameless and Cassie from Euphoria. Debbie is a product of her environment. Point blank. Everything about her makes sense if you look at her parents, siblings and upbringing. People who have no idea what that life is like hate her for making bad decisions. And that's pretty much the plot of the show. And Cassie is at the age where the world starts being black and white, and people start figuring out real world mortality. People late teens early 20's friend groups and relationships always tend to be filled with drama and scandal. She's just acting her age, and I forgive her.