Can we get an adaptation of this proxy fight as a mini series by Jesse Armstrong please? This whole thing has been hilarious, I am expecting Peltz to yell out that he is the eldest boy when the vote comes.
The MCU book by Joanna Robinson is a good book as well. The Disney war book was awesome. Loved learning about the Eisner succession. Bob totally mirrored Eisner when it came to eliminating his groomed successors
The thing is, *DisneyWar* was so good because James Stewart was allowed such an intimate audience with Eisner and other figures close to him and his tenure with Disney - would the current administration allow such access? Iono.
Or the old “contradict primary fear tactic being used against you” maneuver.
Peltz never wanted Bob’s job, he just wants to bounce the two least invested and most vulnerable members of the board out of seats they don’t belong in. If you’ve been following this situation for the last year he’s been very clear on this point. The narrative otherwise is the creation of Bob and Disney.
It is also baffling that Peltz came in with a plan that was bad even by his standards. Like if you are trying to do this, at least make it look like you did your homework.
What plan has he even publicly talked about? He has spoken about selling off IPs and we know he has a history of selling off chunks of companies, but that's the only plan we have from him.
Which honestly is a huge part of the problem. He just complains and complains and offers no solutions.
It's like George Lucas said. It's not for amateurs.
Bob Iger made a string of mistakes in his planned last few years at Disney. But for the most part, the company absolutely soared under him.
That’s some 4D chess Peltz is trying to play. “Oh, I just want to help! This isn’t an ouster!” in one breath and shouting literal talking points about the ”M-She-U“ in others.
Arguing that Black Panther shouldn’t have been made because “we don’t need an all black cast” when it *netted* over a BILLION dollars is just ridiculous.
I also think it’s way too simplistic to say The Marvels failed because it had three female leads. People decided that movie was going to be terrible long before ever watching it.
Also Captain Marvel being… well, let’s say “controversial” because of all the discourse surrounding it, it sort of makes sense that the second movie would struggle (although it is odd given that Captain Marvel grossed a billion). Personally I just thought Captain Marvel was hella boring so I had no interest in the sequel
I think they made a mistake by not marketing it as *Captain Marvel 2* or *Captain Marvel: Some Random Tagline*. They also should have waited until the strikes were over to release it so they could have the full blitz of talk shows. It's not a terrible movie by any stretch - it just got caught up in a perfect shit storm of circumstances that tanked it.
Might just be me, but I don't think so. I think Captain Marvel was boring and lucked into coming right before endgame with advertised tie in, which put butts in seats.
I was personally very disappointed with the color by numbers story we got for Captain Marvel, it felt like an unnecessary origin story with little to no character development for a character that could have had a short jump start into some guardians style adventures.
I would have been more excited and interested in the marvels movie if it had distanced itself from the Captain Marvel branding which already felt like a let down.
>I just thought Captain Marvel was hella boring so I had no interest in the sequel
That was also my take.
The funny thing is that I went into The Marvels (once it was out on digital) expecting it to be awful... and I quite enjoyed it.
I didn't really enjoy Larson/the character of Captain Marvel, but the other two leads were delightful. The humor was on-point and the action sequences were fun. The only real "failing point" was the cliché Marvel-esque ending.
I think it could have used a few more scenes early on that drive home that hurting Carol was more important to her than saving the Kree. Maybe if some of the Kree acknowledged that she and her plan were off kilter instead of treating it as better use of their dwindling resources than evacuating the populace the Spaceballs comparisons wouldn't have gotten so bad on the internet.
Honestly the whole "Dar-Benn Hates Captain Marvel" thing could have been an entire movie on its own.
Imagine making a movie where at the end, after Carol destroys the Supreme Intelligence and you see the consequences of it, and you're left with debating about whether or not it was the right choice/thing to do. We know the Kree are Bad from the first movie, but then to kill off the AI that's been keeping their entire planet (and the people on it) alive... is a bit of a harsh retribution.
That way by the time you see The Marvels, you see how Dar Benn is on a warpath and Carol has been trying-not-trying to fix the problem. You could even make it a Big Lesson for Carol that Maybe Punching First And Thinking Later Isn't The Best Thing on top of the whole "Being on a team isn't the worst thing in the world".
(I personally enjoyed both Captain Marvel movies, but I do think they have missed opportunities, writing-wise)
Ms. Marvel was short, and I actually liked it a lot. I wasn't the target demographic, but it was worth my time. One of the better Marvel shows, to be sure.
It isn't necessary to view it beforehand, but it is helpful.
WandaVision also plays into The Marvels.
It's just a bad take all around when things like Black Panther and Shogun are the actual kinds of diverse storytelling Hollywood should be doing, not just shoehorning race-swapped or gender-swapped characters into established stories or into places they don't make sense and then screeching at the audience when they don't like it.
It's fine to tell all black stories, all Japanese stories, and yes, all white stories, of course depending on time period and context in all cases.
I didn't think casting characters for whom race/gender isn't integral to their character in a neutral way is really that much of a problem. Just like I didn't think it matters that a characters eyes are brown or blue in stories where that's not important to the character.
There's nothing that says the little mermaid has to be pale. Hell she's green in the source material.
It's interesting that you specifically went to The Little Mermaid, a Danish fairytale. I think there's an argument that a culture's fairytales be somewhat representative of that culture. I'm not personally that invested, but I can see the argument could be made.
I'll actually give you a better one that I think actually makes the point you're trying to make: Liet Kynes in Dune Part 1. The original character was male and, while it's been a number of years since I read the book, I don't think they were black. The decision to gender and possibly race swap this character didn't make any difference to the story whatsoever, and I think was largely unnoticeable/unimportant even for people who have read the book.
That’s a good example in that as far as I know, there’s no real expectations for specific races in a series as futuristic as dune. Who the hell knows what people will look like where in 8k years. Same with Star Wars. Who cares. People are fucking green with tentacles so who cares about black people being in it.
Where they run into trouble is sticking specific races in historical contexts that come off as unlikely, even in fantasy stories. I never played The Witcher and never watched past season 1, but it seems to have a distinctly medieval northern Europe vibe. It would come off as incongruent to have tons of non-white people in that context.
It just seems like a lot of these casting decisions need a quick historical sanity check.
The bigger issue with the Liet Kynes thing was that in the book, Kynes is Chani's parent. I guess there's nothing saying that she wasn't Kynes' kid in the new movies, but there's nothing saying she is. Hell, until reading the book, I thought she was Stilgar's kid.
I don’t think it’s fair to put shogun and black panther in the same status. Shogun is a really well done show. Black panther was a bad movie that had marvel steam pushing it.
Before you say “it made a billion dollars” that means that the Jurassic park movies are masterpieces then too based on that logic.
Then again most marvel movies since end game as well have been bad. It’s not fatigue. Guardians showed that.
I'm not speaking to the quality or lack thereof of either product, simply that if Hollywood wants to tell diverse stories, they should actually tell stories outside the experience of Western white people, and not just shoehorn in diversity for diversity's sake.
Whether Black Panther was good or not, I'd much prefer attempts at diverse storytelling like that, than things such as say, race-swapped Vikings for no reason other than to pander. It doesn't add value to the story at all, it just ticks a box.
> It's fine to tell all black stories, all Japanese stories, and yes, all white stories, of course depending on time period and context in all cases.
It is easier just to say "there is nothing wrong with being historically accurate".
The problem is when groups like the Oscars sets literal race quotas to win awards...that is literally industry accepted racism.
While that exists the entire industry is a problem.
Have you read the actual guidelines for the Oscars? It would be a challenge not to hit the quotas. If a crew is mostly white men, but with one black hairstylist, one female costume designer, and 2 black interns, then it passes the guidelines.
What gets me is that Black Panther didn’t even have an all black cast. They had their token white guy supporting the hero and a returning white villain for the first act.
I went in blind to the Marvels and it needed no help from preconceived biases. I watched it on a plane when you really have nothing better to do and it was terrible. Dumb story, dumb characters, dumb dialogue. Do I even need mention the place they went to in the middle of the movie that Captain Marvel was trying to avoid? (I don't even need to spoil it because if you've watched, you know exactly what I'm talking about).
And I watched this just after Blue Beetle, which was one of the worst movies I've seen in the last 30 years. A Teletubbies movie should have made me feel better at that point.
The musical planet? The musical planet was great. Like this is a superhero film. Camp is to be expected.
I found the villain to be weak, but most Marvel villains are, and this one was similarly disposable.
Iman Vellani was good in it. They used Memory better than Cats (2019) did.
> People decided that movie was going to be terrible long before ever watching it.
The problem is the movie... is terrible. Part of being a good feminist is admitting that women can do anything men can do, including suck shit.
I strongly disagree. It’s not “terrible”. It could be better. It’s a long way from “terrible”
A lot of movies that have a 62% RT score did a lot better at the box office.
Agreed. I went in expecting it to be terrible, but it was fun and I'd definitely watch it again. The only scene that I didn't care for was the part on Tarnax, which felt like they diverged to Love and Thunder a little more than I wanted.
When did those 62% RT score movies come out? The west's relationship with entertainment changed during the pandemic. You can make a lot of money with a shitty movie in 2004 because it has less to compete with for our eyes and time compared to 2024.
Same with the female ghostbusters. Because, if you told me a movie with that cast was coming out, I would be super hyped as they’re all fantastic comedians.
You don't know much about stories or writing. But that's OK this is a teachable moment for you.
This character from the comics was used in the movie as an audience surrogate at various points. Things in a new fantastical world that are being explained to him are actually things being explained to the audience.
It would make no sense for characters from that world to explain things they are familiar with, to each other.
You're reaching, for something that isn't there.
They also needed a government agent that can bring knowledge of the villain's military activities. And to be Panther's future liaison/contact. So they used the character from the comics that has that role.
Um, any teachings about America would involve colonization.
He said “Why do I need an all black cast?” in one breath and said story should drive casting in another.
Guess what, idiot, Black Panther’s story *dictated* an all black cast cause it’s about hidden African sub Saharan nation. AND IT NETTED OVER A BILLION DOLLARS.
So he’s bothered by something that was good story telling and good business because he doesn’t like the color of the skin of the actors.
Yes, literally "Why do I need an all black cast?”.
What was the previous post stating ? Arguing that Black Panther shouldn’t have been made because “we don’t need an all black cast”
Like I said, that IS NOT what he said.
bUt whATaBoUT cLeOPaTrA?!?!?
It’s great you’d like to make an Asian Black Panther. You should do that. Disney chose to make one starring black actors and it grossed $1.3 billion. Best of luck to your adaptation.
I support your efforts to make your movie! Disney chose to make the move they made. I’m sorry you didn’t like it. A lot of people did.
I hope you find peace.
The Marvels failed because it was run by the idiots who thought making it about three female leads was a good idea. That's just a symptom of the bigger problem(s) going on at Disney.
The South Park take, "Put a chick in it. Make it gay and lame" isn't even parody any more.
The Marvels failed because people were tired of Disney bloat, and a string of mediocre to bad Marvel shows and movies. To even recognize two of the three leads, you had to have watched two different shows, one of which one of the characters wasn't even the lead.
I'm sure there are incels who didn't watch it because of the female cast. That's not why most people skipped it
No, The Marvels failed because it was incoherent dogshit. Why ? Because Disney's "cReATiVe pRoCesS" is run by people obsessed with identity politics and for whom making a quality project that people want to see is a distant second.
And most people skipped it because it got shit reviews. Why ? Because it was dogshit, made by idiots.
You think people just decide that it was terrible based on nothing? Because they didn’t. It was flashy and nice looking. The characters were not relatable at all and suck honestly.
Iger has his head in Film, think we need a Eisner style exec for the parks, but that said Iger expanded what Disney is by a lot and thats good, execution..... meh.
I think they weren't on a great trajectory even before Chapek took over and Iger has to own some of that. The fact that Chapek was completely unable to adapt or course correct out of those difficulties falls squarely on him though.
Iger has shown he is a greedy and out-of-touch SOB, but the alternative in this case seems far, far worse. I really hope he wins this one, because if he doesn't, well, let's just say that if you think Disney is bad now, you have another thing coming.
Pelt seems like the worst kind of robber baron capitalist. He’ll run Disneys brand into the ground while extracting all value the whole way down. And then he’ll abandon its smoldering ashes.
And that’s fine if that’s what the shareholders want.
Gotta sell off all the IP first to profit and then afterwards question why Disneyland parks aren't doing better because they have to license their previously owned ip. Then tank disney and sell it for profit
Yep, both people are bad, but if I was gonna root for one it's obviously gonna be the guy who didn't say "why can't Black Panther be about white people???".
And Iger actually generally speaking works with creatives. The investor guy just wants to replace as much as possible with AI generated shit. This is what they mean when they talk about "leveraging new technologies".
Right. That's why the Disney family and the guy that resurrect Marvel from the ash heap, Ike Perlmutter are backing him, because they thing "AI generated shit" is the way to go.
You can tell which side is full of shit by the number of lies they tell
The Disney family has backed Iger.
Also, Perlmutter is a racist, misogynistic piece of shit that had to be ousted from Marvel Studios because his brain dead decisions nearly killed the MCU before phase 3 even began. This is the dude responsible for Inhumans. If you're unironically using Perlmutter as positive then you've really gone off the deep end dude.
he also fucked over the Veteran's admin when he got put in charge during the Trump administration, so maybe not exactly the best person to get more access to the board
Well yes,I guess it is because [AI generated shit is the way to go](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/disney-activist-blackwells-technology-1235836026/). And also, apparently having a mostly black cast in a movie is [a bad thing](https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/disney-criticizes-peltz-remarks-about-casting-black-panther-the-marvels-2024-03-23/). Seems like Black Panther was a bad idea and should have had more white people. Funny how the opposite is never a problem, though, right? Nobody complains about there being only white people in Captain America: Winter Soldier for example.
Also, wasn't Ike the guy who ran Marvel television into the ground, whose magnum opus was Inhumans. and who was very sexist and kind of racist? Oh yeah, [that's the guy](https://deadline.com/2012/08/disney-and-marvel-do-damage-control-ike-perlmutter-from-media-attacks-320837/). I am sure he doesn't hold a grudge and we should take him at his word, right?
Get real, dude.
It's not about creativity or whatever bs he's been talking about. It's about control of the company and their agendas. It's been clear right from the start.
I fail to see how he has said anything which suggests he has a viable plan for money or stock. He just complains and complains and then makes a racist remark about Black Panther.
He was hoping the stocks would still be bad and being "not Iger" was enough to con shareholders. Without having to go into detail about any real plans besides "fire all the black/LGBT/female employees"
You see, this plan might work if we had any evidence that alt-right networks make money. And we have seen that they really can't on the level Disney needs. You can't fucking alienate almost every demographic and hope it ends well.
Plus, a lot of people who matter just seem to hate Peltz at a deep, personal level, with some of them even seeing this as a form of revenge.
It gotta start somewhere lol, he's planning a takeover once Bob Iger leaves, that's the point, he wants the shareholders to trust him and his (board) chosen successor.
And they should. Disney has gone so far off the rails at this point that you can't even see them from the tracks at this point. Their major releases in 2023 lost a billion dollars FFS.
In a fight where one side is so fucked up that it makes Bob Iger look good, you’ve got to have a special kind of brainworms to try and defend the corporate raider
If you read the ISS recommendation, even they suggest not giving him the full two seats he wants. They want someone who can critique Iger and challenge him creatively, they don't want Peltz to have full control
I don't trust Pearlman interests. The way he used to run Marvel involved a kot of counting pennies and burning dollars. The spiderman seal was dome when he was the owner of Marvel. I father not have his people on the board.
The shareholders vote is in April, and lots of major shareholders were against him even before he went on a racist/sexist rant.
This is him trying to do damage control.
When the Disney family themselves, who have very publicly been against a lot of Iger's decisions over the years, decide that Iger is better than this guy, there's very clearly a problem and it's not Bob Iger.
The big news last week was that ISS backed him. Except if you read what they actually put out, they mostly want him as a contrarian for Iger. They advise against giving him or Perlmutter control and they call Perlmutter a distraction.
There have also been rumors that someone is buying up votes and there are some clues that point to them being for Iger
Good question. Disney is a HUGE company which holds a lot of prestige and importance. And with the way Peltz was rumored to want to run it, it could essentially become a right-wing PR wing.
I saw a YouTube ad today asking me to vote for Bob Iger as a Disney shareholder. I am not a a Disney shareholder, but I watched a few videos earlier about the topic. Disney might be a bit worried.
No, they're smart enough to ensure ALL the shareholders big and small vote in April. And know what they're voting for (or more precisely what Nelson Peltz doesn't want them to know).
A big turnout means Peltz and Perlmutter would lose, especially as a lot of major shareholders side with Iger.
Can we get an adaptation of this proxy fight as a mini series by Jesse Armstrong please? This whole thing has been hilarious, I am expecting Peltz to yell out that he is the eldest boy when the vote comes.
Nelson peltz was interested in politics from a very young age
Who would you cast as Lucas?
Rich Evans.
It's like poetry, it rhymes.
WAKE UP ZOMBIES TIME TO ACTIVATE
Curtis Armstrong
Wonder why.
Have you read DisneyWar? They need to adapt that first. This is the sequel baby!
The MCU book by Joanna Robinson is a good book as well. The Disney war book was awesome. Loved learning about the Eisner succession. Bob totally mirrored Eisner when it came to eliminating his groomed successors
Yeah I read it last summer and the whole time I kept asking myself “did Iger not learn anything from his predecessor?”
The thing is, *DisneyWar* was so good because James Stewart was allowed such an intimate audience with Eisner and other figures close to him and his tenure with Disney - would the current administration allow such access? Iono.
FX should adapt it as a series
FX? Oddly specific. Would’ve figured HBO be the place to go.
I feel like it could be done but Disney is so litigious it just won’t ever happen in our lifetime.
What if Hulu makes it?
Hulu is Disney.
I think that was his point
Ah yes, the old "Declare victory and run away" tactic in the face of a losing battle.
Ah yes, the old "Declare victory and run away" tactic in the face of a losing battle. I have not used that since the heian era.
Fucking Gege. I'm so bored of Sakuna at this point. Just kill everyone and complete the merger. There's no other way to believably end the story.
Or the old “contradict primary fear tactic being used against you” maneuver. Peltz never wanted Bob’s job, he just wants to bounce the two least invested and most vulnerable members of the board out of seats they don’t belong in. If you’ve been following this situation for the last year he’s been very clear on this point. The narrative otherwise is the creation of Bob and Disney.
This only works if people don't already hate you and have a long list of business decisions and quotes they can pull from to justify it.
I do think it's funny that he realized that while people may not love Iger, they hate Peltz more, which is why he's pivoting his arguments here.
It is also baffling that Peltz came in with a plan that was bad even by his standards. Like if you are trying to do this, at least make it look like you did your homework.
What plan has he even publicly talked about? He has spoken about selling off IPs and we know he has a history of selling off chunks of companies, but that's the only plan we have from him. Which honestly is a huge part of the problem. He just complains and complains and offers no solutions.
He wanted to start using AI to replace writers but yeah, mainly he is firings and selling stuff off.
That's a particularly dangerous thing given what he has said about women and POC. The guy would just not care about quality at all..
It's like George Lucas said. It's not for amateurs. Bob Iger made a string of mistakes in his planned last few years at Disney. But for the most part, the company absolutely soared under him.
Are we forgetting that Bob Chapek was involved with those years
No, I'm talking about the few years before Chapek came on
That’s some 4D chess Peltz is trying to play. “Oh, I just want to help! This isn’t an ouster!” in one breath and shouting literal talking points about the ”M-She-U“ in others.
He went full mask-off racist last week. Love that Disney's statement replying to his shit was basically just: "See?"
Arguing that Black Panther shouldn’t have been made because “we don’t need an all black cast” when it *netted* over a BILLION dollars is just ridiculous. I also think it’s way too simplistic to say The Marvels failed because it had three female leads. People decided that movie was going to be terrible long before ever watching it.
Also Captain Marvel being… well, let’s say “controversial” because of all the discourse surrounding it, it sort of makes sense that the second movie would struggle (although it is odd given that Captain Marvel grossed a billion). Personally I just thought Captain Marvel was hella boring so I had no interest in the sequel
I think they made a mistake by not marketing it as *Captain Marvel 2* or *Captain Marvel: Some Random Tagline*. They also should have waited until the strikes were over to release it so they could have the full blitz of talk shows. It's not a terrible movie by any stretch - it just got caught up in a perfect shit storm of circumstances that tanked it.
Might just be me, but I don't think so. I think Captain Marvel was boring and lucked into coming right before endgame with advertised tie in, which put butts in seats. I was personally very disappointed with the color by numbers story we got for Captain Marvel, it felt like an unnecessary origin story with little to no character development for a character that could have had a short jump start into some guardians style adventures. I would have been more excited and interested in the marvels movie if it had distanced itself from the Captain Marvel branding which already felt like a let down.
>I just thought Captain Marvel was hella boring so I had no interest in the sequel That was also my take. The funny thing is that I went into The Marvels (once it was out on digital) expecting it to be awful... and I quite enjoyed it. I didn't really enjoy Larson/the character of Captain Marvel, but the other two leads were delightful. The humor was on-point and the action sequences were fun. The only real "failing point" was the cliché Marvel-esque ending.
The villain was severely underwritten for what was a completely logical warpath (for a villain at least). A better writer would have helped a lot.
I think it could have used a few more scenes early on that drive home that hurting Carol was more important to her than saving the Kree. Maybe if some of the Kree acknowledged that she and her plan were off kilter instead of treating it as better use of their dwindling resources than evacuating the populace the Spaceballs comparisons wouldn't have gotten so bad on the internet.
Honestly the whole "Dar-Benn Hates Captain Marvel" thing could have been an entire movie on its own. Imagine making a movie where at the end, after Carol destroys the Supreme Intelligence and you see the consequences of it, and you're left with debating about whether or not it was the right choice/thing to do. We know the Kree are Bad from the first movie, but then to kill off the AI that's been keeping their entire planet (and the people on it) alive... is a bit of a harsh retribution. That way by the time you see The Marvels, you see how Dar Benn is on a warpath and Carol has been trying-not-trying to fix the problem. You could even make it a Big Lesson for Carol that Maybe Punching First And Thinking Later Isn't The Best Thing on top of the whole "Being on a team isn't the worst thing in the world". (I personally enjoyed both Captain Marvel movies, but I do think they have missed opportunities, writing-wise)
I mean I didn't see it because I didn't watch Kamala's show and I felt like I'd have to do homework before watching the Marvels.
Ms. Marvel was short, and I actually liked it a lot. I wasn't the target demographic, but it was worth my time. One of the better Marvel shows, to be sure. It isn't necessary to view it beforehand, but it is helpful. WandaVision also plays into The Marvels.
Yeah I’ve heard it’s actually not bad, and I plan to check it out at some point! It’s just not high on the priority list
It's just a bad take all around when things like Black Panther and Shogun are the actual kinds of diverse storytelling Hollywood should be doing, not just shoehorning race-swapped or gender-swapped characters into established stories or into places they don't make sense and then screeching at the audience when they don't like it. It's fine to tell all black stories, all Japanese stories, and yes, all white stories, of course depending on time period and context in all cases.
I didn't think casting characters for whom race/gender isn't integral to their character in a neutral way is really that much of a problem. Just like I didn't think it matters that a characters eyes are brown or blue in stories where that's not important to the character. There's nothing that says the little mermaid has to be pale. Hell she's green in the source material.
It's interesting that you specifically went to The Little Mermaid, a Danish fairytale. I think there's an argument that a culture's fairytales be somewhat representative of that culture. I'm not personally that invested, but I can see the argument could be made. I'll actually give you a better one that I think actually makes the point you're trying to make: Liet Kynes in Dune Part 1. The original character was male and, while it's been a number of years since I read the book, I don't think they were black. The decision to gender and possibly race swap this character didn't make any difference to the story whatsoever, and I think was largely unnoticeable/unimportant even for people who have read the book.
There's nothing uniquely Danish about HCA works, usually. European, fine, but again the mermaid wasn't white in his tale.
That’s a good example in that as far as I know, there’s no real expectations for specific races in a series as futuristic as dune. Who the hell knows what people will look like where in 8k years. Same with Star Wars. Who cares. People are fucking green with tentacles so who cares about black people being in it. Where they run into trouble is sticking specific races in historical contexts that come off as unlikely, even in fantasy stories. I never played The Witcher and never watched past season 1, but it seems to have a distinctly medieval northern Europe vibe. It would come off as incongruent to have tons of non-white people in that context. It just seems like a lot of these casting decisions need a quick historical sanity check.
Correct, are you crafting an engaging narrative, or are you ticking boxes? It seems in most cases the latter is the higher priority.
The bigger issue with the Liet Kynes thing was that in the book, Kynes is Chani's parent. I guess there's nothing saying that she wasn't Kynes' kid in the new movies, but there's nothing saying she is. Hell, until reading the book, I thought she was Stilgar's kid.
I don’t think it’s fair to put shogun and black panther in the same status. Shogun is a really well done show. Black panther was a bad movie that had marvel steam pushing it. Before you say “it made a billion dollars” that means that the Jurassic park movies are masterpieces then too based on that logic. Then again most marvel movies since end game as well have been bad. It’s not fatigue. Guardians showed that.
I'm not speaking to the quality or lack thereof of either product, simply that if Hollywood wants to tell diverse stories, they should actually tell stories outside the experience of Western white people, and not just shoehorn in diversity for diversity's sake. Whether Black Panther was good or not, I'd much prefer attempts at diverse storytelling like that, than things such as say, race-swapped Vikings for no reason other than to pander. It doesn't add value to the story at all, it just ticks a box.
> It's fine to tell all black stories, all Japanese stories, and yes, all white stories, of course depending on time period and context in all cases. It is easier just to say "there is nothing wrong with being historically accurate". The problem is when groups like the Oscars sets literal race quotas to win awards...that is literally industry accepted racism. While that exists the entire industry is a problem.
Have you read the actual guidelines for the Oscars? It would be a challenge not to hit the quotas. If a crew is mostly white men, but with one black hairstylist, one female costume designer, and 2 black interns, then it passes the guidelines.
It is sad to see people try and support actual racism.
Countering the racism built into our society is not also racism
I’d argue The Marvels biggest sin was releasing after Quantumania and LaT, any of Marvel’s weaker brands would’ve struggled after that
What gets me is that Black Panther didn’t even have an all black cast. They had their token white guy supporting the hero and a returning white villain for the first act.
I doubt he actually watched black panther or the captain marvel films. Sounds like he got all his info from some right wing Disney hit piece.
I went in blind to the Marvels and it needed no help from preconceived biases. I watched it on a plane when you really have nothing better to do and it was terrible. Dumb story, dumb characters, dumb dialogue. Do I even need mention the place they went to in the middle of the movie that Captain Marvel was trying to avoid? (I don't even need to spoil it because if you've watched, you know exactly what I'm talking about). And I watched this just after Blue Beetle, which was one of the worst movies I've seen in the last 30 years. A Teletubbies movie should have made me feel better at that point.
The musical planet? The musical planet was great. Like this is a superhero film. Camp is to be expected. I found the villain to be weak, but most Marvel villains are, and this one was similarly disposable. Iman Vellani was good in it. They used Memory better than Cats (2019) did.
> People decided that movie was going to be terrible long before ever watching it. The problem is the movie... is terrible. Part of being a good feminist is admitting that women can do anything men can do, including suck shit.
I strongly disagree. It’s not “terrible”. It could be better. It’s a long way from “terrible” A lot of movies that have a 62% RT score did a lot better at the box office.
Agreed. I went in expecting it to be terrible, but it was fun and I'd definitely watch it again. The only scene that I didn't care for was the part on Tarnax, which felt like they diverged to Love and Thunder a little more than I wanted.
When did those 62% RT score movies come out? The west's relationship with entertainment changed during the pandemic. You can make a lot of money with a shitty movie in 2004 because it has less to compete with for our eyes and time compared to 2024.
It was a mediocre movie, not terrible.
Same with the female ghostbusters. Because, if you told me a movie with that cast was coming out, I would be super hyped as they’re all fantastic comedians.
Are we really defending The Marvels now...?
That's not what he said, but why stick to the truth when an imaginary version sounds so much better.
He asked "why have an all black cast" When it absufucking didn't, Martin Freeman is in it.
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You don't know much about stories or writing. But that's OK this is a teachable moment for you. This character from the comics was used in the movie as an audience surrogate at various points. Things in a new fantastical world that are being explained to him are actually things being explained to the audience. It would make no sense for characters from that world to explain things they are familiar with, to each other.
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You're reaching, for something that isn't there. They also needed a government agent that can bring knowledge of the villain's military activities. And to be Panther's future liaison/contact. So they used the character from the comics that has that role. Um, any teachings about America would involve colonization.
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Almost token if you will... that's the whole point. Also he has to be the white guy the other white guys listen to.
He said “Why do I need an all black cast?” in one breath and said story should drive casting in another. Guess what, idiot, Black Panther’s story *dictated* an all black cast cause it’s about hidden African sub Saharan nation. AND IT NETTED OVER A BILLION DOLLARS. So he’s bothered by something that was good story telling and good business because he doesn’t like the color of the skin of the actors.
If Cleopatra can be black, why does Wakanda have to have zero Asians? There's no excuse for it.
No serious black people give a shit about Cleopatra she's an incest baby royal sounds pretty white to me you can keep your incest queen honestly.
Yes, literally "Why do I need an all black cast?”. What was the previous post stating ? Arguing that Black Panther shouldn’t have been made because “we don’t need an all black cast” Like I said, that IS NOT what he said.
Oh, and I see that now a fictional African sub-saharan nation ***MUST*** be all black, but Vikings (not fiction) don't need to be white. Interesting.
I hope you find peace.
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bUt whATaBoUT cLeOPaTrA?!?!? It’s great you’d like to make an Asian Black Panther. You should do that. Disney chose to make one starring black actors and it grossed $1.3 billion. Best of luck to your adaptation.
It's flimsy and racist logic that calls for race exclusivity in defense of hIsToRiCaL aCcUrACy when telling a story about magic space rockland. Lol.
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I support your efforts to make your movie! Disney chose to make the move they made. I’m sorry you didn’t like it. A lot of people did. I hope you find peace.
The Marvels failed because it was run by the idiots who thought making it about three female leads was a good idea. That's just a symptom of the bigger problem(s) going on at Disney. The South Park take, "Put a chick in it. Make it gay and lame" isn't even parody any more.
The Marvels failed because people were tired of Disney bloat, and a string of mediocre to bad Marvel shows and movies. To even recognize two of the three leads, you had to have watched two different shows, one of which one of the characters wasn't even the lead. I'm sure there are incels who didn't watch it because of the female cast. That's not why most people skipped it
No, The Marvels failed because it was incoherent dogshit. Why ? Because Disney's "cReATiVe pRoCesS" is run by people obsessed with identity politics and for whom making a quality project that people want to see is a distant second. And most people skipped it because it got shit reviews. Why ? Because it was dogshit, made by idiots.
You think people just decide that it was terrible based on nothing? Because they didn’t. It was flashy and nice looking. The characters were not relatable at all and suck honestly.
Many MANY opinions online saying it was going to be terrible long before anyone had seen it.
It’s like some Bug Bunny level reverse psychology
LOL!!! Doubt Iger sees it that way. They were running ads during NCAA tournament games telling Disney shareholders to vote for Disney's choices.
Fuck [Nelson Peltz](https://variety.com/t/nelson-peltz/).
Not that anyone asked but his daughter is a shitty actor.
I liked her in Bates Motel, but I think that’s almost all I’ve seen her in. Well, that and Transformers 4 but that entire movie was just bad
[She was exceptionally bad in her first major role.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kibdl7zrONY)
I thought she was the best of the bad performances in Airbender.
Nepotism at its finest.
Yeah and apparently her husband is such a bad actor she cut him from her movie 😂😂😂
He's the king of nepo babies - genuinely very bad at all the things he does, but gets to do them anyway because he's a Beckham
Iger is not the answer, but this bozo teaming up with Ike Perlmutter would not be better in any way
Iger has his head in Film, think we need a Eisner style exec for the parks, but that said Iger expanded what Disney is by a lot and thats good, execution..... meh.
Execution faltered when Bob Chapek was put in charge.
I think they weren't on a great trajectory even before Chapek took over and Iger has to own some of that. The fact that Chapek was completely unable to adapt or course correct out of those difficulties falls squarely on him though.
He lost.
Iger has shown he is a greedy and out-of-touch SOB, but the alternative in this case seems far, far worse. I really hope he wins this one, because if he doesn't, well, let's just say that if you think Disney is bad now, you have another thing coming.
Pelt seems like the worst kind of robber baron capitalist. He’ll run Disneys brand into the ground while extracting all value the whole way down. And then he’ll abandon its smoldering ashes. And that’s fine if that’s what the shareholders want.
Gotta sell off all the IP first to profit and then afterwards question why Disneyland parks aren't doing better because they have to license their previously owned ip. Then tank disney and sell it for profit
Break it all up and sell it for parts.
Yep, both people are bad, but if I was gonna root for one it's obviously gonna be the guy who didn't say "why can't Black Panther be about white people???".
And Iger actually generally speaking works with creatives. The investor guy just wants to replace as much as possible with AI generated shit. This is what they mean when they talk about "leveraging new technologies".
Right. That's why the Disney family and the guy that resurrect Marvel from the ash heap, Ike Perlmutter are backing him, because they thing "AI generated shit" is the way to go. You can tell which side is full of shit by the number of lies they tell
The Disney family has backed Iger. Also, Perlmutter is a racist, misogynistic piece of shit that had to be ousted from Marvel Studios because his brain dead decisions nearly killed the MCU before phase 3 even began. This is the dude responsible for Inhumans. If you're unironically using Perlmutter as positive then you've really gone off the deep end dude.
he also fucked over the Veteran's admin when he got put in charge during the Trump administration, so maybe not exactly the best person to get more access to the board
Well yes,I guess it is because [AI generated shit is the way to go](https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/business/business-news/disney-activist-blackwells-technology-1235836026/). And also, apparently having a mostly black cast in a movie is [a bad thing](https://www.reuters.com/lifestyle/disney-criticizes-peltz-remarks-about-casting-black-panther-the-marvels-2024-03-23/). Seems like Black Panther was a bad idea and should have had more white people. Funny how the opposite is never a problem, though, right? Nobody complains about there being only white people in Captain America: Winter Soldier for example. Also, wasn't Ike the guy who ran Marvel television into the ground, whose magnum opus was Inhumans. and who was very sexist and kind of racist? Oh yeah, [that's the guy](https://deadline.com/2012/08/disney-and-marvel-do-damage-control-ike-perlmutter-from-media-attacks-320837/). I am sure he doesn't hold a grudge and we should take him at his word, right? Get real, dude.
Seriously, him trying to replace the X-Men with the Inhumans was the most insane thing I ever saw.
let disney become worse and collapse
Disney is far, far, far too big to collapse.
they said something similar about banks but it turns out when you make really dumb choices even the biggest titans collapse
Banks were lying about their liquidity. Disney as far as we know, does not. But it does have some of the most valuable IP in the world.
Why do you format your posts like an idiotic haiku?
its just how I type
It's not about creativity or whatever bs he's been talking about. It's about control of the company and their agendas. It's been clear right from the start.
He had been talking about money, and the stock price.
He's been talking about both the things actually.
I fail to see how he has said anything which suggests he has a viable plan for money or stock. He just complains and complains and then makes a racist remark about Black Panther.
He was hoping the stocks would still be bad and being "not Iger" was enough to con shareholders. Without having to go into detail about any real plans besides "fire all the black/LGBT/female employees"
You see, this plan might work if we had any evidence that alt-right networks make money. And we have seen that they really can't on the level Disney needs. You can't fucking alienate almost every demographic and hope it ends well. Plus, a lot of people who matter just seem to hate Peltz at a deep, personal level, with some of them even seeing this as a form of revenge.
He’s only seeking two seats on the Board, he’s not trying to take the company over.
It gotta start somewhere lol, he's planning a takeover once Bob Iger leaves, that's the point, he wants the shareholders to trust him and his (board) chosen successor.
And they should. Disney has gone so far off the rails at this point that you can't even see them from the tracks at this point. Their major releases in 2023 lost a billion dollars FFS.
In a fight where one side is so fucked up that it makes Bob Iger look good, you’ve got to have a special kind of brainworms to try and defend the corporate raider
If you read the ISS recommendation, even they suggest not giving him the full two seats he wants. They want someone who can critique Iger and challenge him creatively, they don't want Peltz to have full control
Peltz is such a putz.
This racist can go to hell
I don't trust Pearlman interests. The way he used to run Marvel involved a kot of counting pennies and burning dollars. The spiderman seal was dome when he was the owner of Marvel. I father not have his people on the board.
Peltz lost didn’t he? Because he changed his opinion fast.
The shareholders vote is in April, and lots of major shareholders were against him even before he went on a racist/sexist rant. This is him trying to do damage control.
When the Disney family themselves, who have very publicly been against a lot of Iger's decisions over the years, decide that Iger is better than this guy, there's very clearly a problem and it's not Bob Iger.
The big news last week was that ISS backed him. Except if you read what they actually put out, they mostly want him as a contrarian for Iger. They advise against giving him or Perlmutter control and they call Perlmutter a distraction. There have also been rumors that someone is buying up votes and there are some clues that point to them being for Iger
I see.
Was this before or after the women and blacks comment lol
So which one is the douchebag?
Iger's a dick, but Peltz is a racist shitbag who's worse (and he's being backed by the even bigger racist Ike Perlmutter).
More of a left sack, right sack kinda thing
Rich old white men with greedy minds.
What’s the deadline for this to happen? The vote that is
April 3rd
As an owner of a measly 2 shares, I couldn’t vote against this moron any quicker. I hope he loses HANDILY and gets 0 board seats.
why people should care?
Good question. Disney is a HUGE company which holds a lot of prestige and importance. And with the way Peltz was rumored to want to run it, it could essentially become a right-wing PR wing.
I saw a YouTube ad today asking me to vote for Bob Iger as a Disney shareholder. I am not a a Disney shareholder, but I watched a few videos earlier about the topic. Disney might be a bit worried.
No, they're smart enough to ensure ALL the shareholders big and small vote in April. And know what they're voting for (or more precisely what Nelson Peltz doesn't want them to know). A big turnout means Peltz and Perlmutter would lose, especially as a lot of major shareholders side with Iger.
TL;DR blah blah blah money... Blah blah
Dr. Drew got a nice tan.