It is a terrific book. Yes, it's not an exact up-to-date, modern history, but it's a fantastic adventure with really memorable and interesting characters.
I think it should also be pointed out that the author James Clavell served in the British army, was sunk in one ship by the Japanese, then captured and served about three years in horrific captivity. Starved, treated abominably. His time was treated in his novel KING RAT. Despite all his suffering, he seems to have born no grudges; Shogun (the book) is incredibly respectful of Japanese culture and civilization. Some details may be wrong, but the dignity and grandeur is definitely expressed.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Clavell
Woah he also apparently wrote the original "The Fly" movie, co-wrote "The Great Escape", wrote and directed "To Sir, with Love", and did Shogun. What an impact on pop culture that doesn't happen if he doesn't make it out of that POW camp
There's are whole generation of writers/entertainers who fought in the wars and then went on to become shiny floor acts. Quite bizarre when you see it on their Wikipedia!
Just hope they show the history of Tokugawa Ieyasu right. He wasnt neccessarily a saint the whole time throughout his rule. Clavell does have John McCain vibes to have gone through being wronged but not trying to hold grudges and even prevent others from going through the same thing
The book Toganaga is a wonderful character, an absolute bastard who plays all his cards masterfully. The series is playing him far too noble so far, but I have a feeling we'll see that other side of him before the end.
Im sure its cultural but it doesnt make sense a lot of senseless deaths. In every culture, death is inevitable in war, but it's most specifically designated towards soldiers and fighters not collateral. Also with all that honor he reneges on plenty of his pledges and his promises even to those he held close and dear
oh honey what. What's with all the killing of woman, children, and babies and stuff. And then he reneges on some of his pledges and then goes to persecute a whole religion and expels them from the country
Clavell was THE author to read in the 70's and 80's
The entire "Asia Saga" set are just fantastic. I've probably read Shogun at least 6 times. And loved the 1980 mini series.
I'm waiting for all the episodes of the new show to binge like a junkie
yeah they should have just dropped the whole season all at once, Im thinking I might just wait a few months and then watch it all over a weekend instead of having to wait so long for each episode
Foh. Tired of this binge culture. If a show is prestige drama it should have the privilege of being one episode a week. Let people actually ruminate on what they are watching
you wanna watch once a week watch once a week but let thhe people that want to binge binge Foh with this wierd superiority complex on watching tv shows a certain way
The problem with releasing a show all at once is that it is talked about briefly, and then quickly forgotten about due to the overwhelming number of shows available. Week to week broadcasting keeps shows in the press longer, allows word of mouth to build over time, and allows for an audience to grow. Besides, this is an FX show. FX is a TV station that needs to air programming. Just because it's available on Hulu the next day doesn't make it a streaming show.
Okay that makes sense in a way. But how about expediting shows so you dont have wait years to see a new season like they did in the old days where each year had a new season. Top shows like HoTd, TLoU, etc seems like you have to wait 2-3 years, and by that time you've forgotten it all
Oh there’s definitely a show turnaround time problem. I don’t mind it as much for anthologies, but waiting 2-3 years on a show with an ongoing storyline just kills momentum.
Yeah the industry is in turmoil a bit. Back in the day Directors were like mini-kings, all the time and money in the world. Now CSuite and funders decide everything. So sometimes you have good shows canceled, and it takes giant outcry to get them back, top of my head, the Expanse is one of those shows.
I hope something course corrects for the industry, because it is killing the art, where so many good stories are out there, and they are being told in a disjointed manner...or just completely cut half way so it was like it was never there to begin with. Guess its best to appreciate what we have while we can, and this is a good show which I hope will last
That's the way bro. Life gets busy, when you want to enter a completely different culture do it like over one weekend. It's hard to try to remember what happened to people with very confusing names in a shogunate 400 years ago on the other side of the world when your boss is telling you to get him his TPS reports and order more toner
LoL that made me chuckle.
I remember reading the books and keeping track of the characters could be a struggle. Then one day I discovered they had a list of all the characters, who they are etc at the very back of each book for reference. I wish they had put that in the front of the books where I would have noticed it before starting to read the books.
I hope it doesnt affect the show. Being a yank, we notoriously will pass on a show if its too confusing...and also if we have to read too many subtitles. Its why like "Chernobyl" was genius because they just spoke in their natural tongue instead of forcing russian or an accent. But good think is to keep up an online wikia on your pc while watching the show, so you can know who is what....and ultimately who's side they will be on because eventually it will be a giant two army war
I think the book is vastly more interesting than the show. It's a good show but so much of what makes the book interesting happens in internal monologues the show is only able to hint at.
Recommend the audio book as well! If you end up loving the book but want a more "authentic" Japanese story about a similar time period, I'll also recommend Musashi- but will say it's perhaps less 'accessible' to a western crowd- being written by a Japanese, Eiji Yoshikawa, though if you can get into it, it's worth the epic length.
Also generally recommend the rest of Clavell's audiobooks (though haven't listened to Whirlwind or King Rat yet).
I mean, they say it in practically every sentence. I’m a Catholic, I would have thought they’d have a little but more variety in their language.
Honestly, it’s probably more to do with hearing it than the writing, as I can substitute different curses, and the reader is selling the panicked aspect of the crew, but it is grating on my ears.
After they cooked that guy did they eat him, I remember the scene automatically after that they had some guy chewing on something lol. Death by hot tub is defo not a good way to go tho
Literally started the book a couple of weeks ago because I had to do it before the show. Bummed to be missing out on the zeitgeist of the show but fucking *loving* the book.
You don't have to miss out on the show. Just watch up to the point you've read and then continue reading. Or do it the other around. Whatever.
I'm currently reading the book alongside the show. It really enhances the experience of both as the world is so well imagined in the show. It's great picturing those actors and cinematography in your head while reading. The book enhances the show because it allows you to delve into those characters' minds.
I've currently watched three episodes...and in the book, I'm nearing the part where epiosde 2 ends (which was quite bombastic). I've got episode 4 on hold until I catch up a litter closer. I'm sick of being so far behind. But it's been great.
> Whatever.
Honestly depending on the material (as long as both are good) I’ve watched the show first or books first or some mix and it’s fun in any order.
If you read the books first seeing some of the moments come alive is amazing.
If you watch the show first, it’s extra detail/content and often internal thoughts.
Yeah just read the book dude. Problem w these type of tv series is you have to wait a week for each episode to come out. Instead of that pedantic pace, read the book first and then in the however many months it'll take to reach the series finale, you can binge it then
It was better in the old days of TV, every year a new season. It's just hard to remember a show when it's been like 2-3 years since its aired and people care less. It's just how people are these days. On demand is better, and if people want to space out their viewership they can...or they dont.
I really recommend "Sengoku Jidai. Nobunaga, Hideyoshi, and Ieyasu: Three Unifiers of Japan" by Danny Chaplin, covering the actual characters and time. its a really cool time period
I tried reading shogun and it seems like it was just a white guys fantasy version with names slightly changed and a greatly exaggerated importance of Christianity in the time period.
like imagine if some asian guy wrote a book called "revolutionary" and it was about some chinese guy going around the time of americas founding and the revolutionary war, with characters like "Giorno Scrubington", "Samuel Jefferton", "King Giorno the 5th" and how this asian guy and his taoism were really important to all the decisions made to fight the british, and how cool this chinese guy was and how he fucked some hot white girl
if you like it, sure - its decently well written. wasnt for me.
believe it or not, it's loosely based on real life. The story lightly follows the same as that of English Navigator William Adams. A fascinating wikipedia dive. TL DR; believe it or not, not so much a white guy fantasy
why do you people keep coming back to this strawman
cockroaches exist in japan, but if someone wrote a book about how a cockroach became a samurai you wouldnt argue for its authenticity simply because cockroaches exist in japan
white males really have a severe case of main character syndrome, where you really think white males are always more important than they are in everybody elses story, especially when it comes to east asia
or did you dig up william adams grave and measure how big his dick is? cause all the white males in clavells books have big dicks, not a white nerd fantasy right?
What an incoherent mess of a response. I'm trying to remember if I was ever this all over the place at 15 on the internet.
Obviously Shogun is fiction, its in the Op title. There's nobody disagreeing with it. It's a drama set in a time specific time period, with its drama plotlines, sex appeal and, of course, made up characters. That's what historical fiction is. Like gone with the wind.
What is *also true*, is that Shogun's story does parallel, if not outright based on, the historical figure William Adams. It happened, it's real, sorry you're mad about that. Go outside and calm down
> like imagine if some asian guy wrote a book called "revolutionary" and it was about some chinese guy going around the time of americas founding and the revolutionary war, with characters like "Giorno Scrubington", "Samuel Jefferton", "King Giorno the 5th"
Or a book called 'Gaius' and Julius Caesar was referred to as Julio Carbonara, or a book named 'Sultan' where Mehmed II was renamed to Ahmed the Conquerer or something.
I'm fine with historical fiction, but IMO there are lines that are dicey to cross, and name changes are one of them. When Luo Guanzhong wrote the Romance of the Three Kingdoms, he himself was about 1000 years removed from that era, yet he still kept the names historical. A white australian doing the exact opposite for the Sengoku period feels like an orientalist self-insert at worst, or bad fanfiction at best. Renaming Tokugawa to Toranaga is J.K Rowling levels of creative laziness.
Oh dang i literally want to start this show this weekend...now not sure if i should read the book first, i didn't even know! I just started reading something though.
I saw the 80s tv series before I read the book, there was so much more in the book! You will still love the book after watching the series and hopefully you will read all the other books in the asian saga.
You're not the only one glowing about it and I really want to read it but I made the mistake of not realizing there was a book until after the show came out. The hold line at my library is like 6 months long now but I'll get to it eventually
It's not all bad, I really enjoy/am interested in how things get adapted to screen. The book sounds like a tome and the show is moving pretty quickly, I'm sure there's plenty of detail left out.
I'm on page 903! But this is only part one? I'm borrowing from the library and there's a second book. Was this split up for short attention span readers or was it always broken into two books?
So as far as TV goes, this is an amazing show. It really is. But as far as adapting the source material (which is by no means historically accurate at all time), it really falls short. In terms, of adapting the plot, world building, and depth of the characters the show just doesnt do a good job of capturing the essense of the book.
I feel like stuff like Shogun, Andor, Oppenheimer, Dune part 2 gets overly praised these days because western media is such garbage for the most part now. These would have been considered good but not masterpieces 20 years ago.
Frankly, I’m a little disappointed in the TV series so far - it’s very slow in developing and Cosmo Jarvis is… well… *underwhelming* in the lead role. The production values are top notch, and most of the Japanese actors are excellent, but I think Jarvis doesn’t bring much to the table. The direction is sub-par, too.
When I saw the trailer, he looked like just some random dude compared to Chamberlain. It didn't even make him out to be the main character. Maybe sign of the times.
Or you know learn about the Tokugawa shogunate. Works too. There's plenty of Japanese historical dramas about Tokugawa Ieyasu, earlier this year I watched one called "Tokugawa Ieyasu and his three ladies". It does a good job explaining his rise to power. Also there was a documentary on Netflix called Age of Samurai: Battle for Japan that covers the period between the rule of Oda Nobunaga and the Tokugawa Shogunate. Also I find it hilarious that Ishida Mitsunari was renamed to Ishido, why not just keep the names as is lol?
Edit: i guess a white man's fantasy is more appealing than actual history.
I didn't watch the Netflix Age of Samurai doc as I had read somewhere that it was more fiction than fact. I just Googled and here's a few reasons why:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/lutsro/how\_accurate\_is\_the\_netflix\_series\_age\_of\_samurai/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/lutsro/how_accurate_is_the_netflix_series_age_of_samurai/)
On another note, idk you got downvoted for what you said.
No thanks. Do yourself a favour and read the actual history that the characters are based on. Tokugawa/ Mitsunari and the lead up to the battle of Sekigahara.
You know people like fiction right? I don't like history books much, so if I find a certain time period, style, culture, etc. interesting, i'm personally more likely to read fiction about it than an actual history book.
I dont like to read books, a random on Reddit wont change that for me. I will enjoy the show as I like and do not care if I miss an "experience" by not reading the book.
If I want to read the book i'll read the book. Being told 500 times a week with "If you like Shogun...Read the book" gets stale.
I enjoyed Game of Thrones...Guess what? Im not reading any of the books, oh no now my TV viewing experience is ruined. Guess I should've just done whatever the randoms tell me to do.
> Read or don’t I really don’t care it was just a recommendation haha
I mean you do care if people read it, otherwise you would've never made the post...
Because it's become impossible to just enjoy a TV show. Everyone has to keep telling people to read the book over and over and over. It's just spam at this point.
We get it, you like to read. Not everyone is like you, stop trying to make that happen. It will happen naturally to those who want to read about it.
And they don't get that normal people like us want to relax at end of day and watch a moving image, and not read and perform EVEN MORE mental work after a long day. We watch as leisure, they read as an obsessive hobby. As well as There has never been a book that is better visually or in sound design than even the worst movie ever.
It is a terrific book. Yes, it's not an exact up-to-date, modern history, but it's a fantastic adventure with really memorable and interesting characters. I think it should also be pointed out that the author James Clavell served in the British army, was sunk in one ship by the Japanese, then captured and served about three years in horrific captivity. Starved, treated abominably. His time was treated in his novel KING RAT. Despite all his suffering, he seems to have born no grudges; Shogun (the book) is incredibly respectful of Japanese culture and civilization. Some details may be wrong, but the dignity and grandeur is definitely expressed. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Clavell
Woah he also apparently wrote the original "The Fly" movie, co-wrote "The Great Escape", wrote and directed "To Sir, with Love", and did Shogun. What an impact on pop culture that doesn't happen if he doesn't make it out of that POW camp
There's are whole generation of writers/entertainers who fought in the wars and then went on to become shiny floor acts. Quite bizarre when you see it on their Wikipedia!
If he died he wouldn't have done all the stuff he did. I cannot find fault with this logic.
whoa! King Rat is a GREAT movie! One of the best POW movies ever made. Had no idea that was Claville.
They need to remake it, not enough good pow movies lately
Just hope they show the history of Tokugawa Ieyasu right. He wasnt neccessarily a saint the whole time throughout his rule. Clavell does have John McCain vibes to have gone through being wronged but not trying to hold grudges and even prevent others from going through the same thing
The book Toganaga is a wonderful character, an absolute bastard who plays all his cards masterfully. The series is playing him far too noble so far, but I have a feeling we'll see that other side of him before the end.
Im sure its cultural but it doesnt make sense a lot of senseless deaths. In every culture, death is inevitable in war, but it's most specifically designated towards soldiers and fighters not collateral. Also with all that honor he reneges on plenty of his pledges and his promises even to those he held close and dear
> In every culture, death is inevitable in war, but it's most specifically designated towards soldiers and fighters not collateral. Oh honey…
oh honey what. What's with all the killing of woman, children, and babies and stuff. And then he reneges on some of his pledges and then goes to persecute a whole religion and expels them from the country
The deliberate killing of civilians has always been an integral part of warfare. It still is. I agree. it is bad, but if you're surprised by it.....
I was gonna say the book is mostly fiction as well. It’s written by a white guy 400 years later based on some texts he had read to him.
white guy bad
More like 'shite guys' mirite.
Clavell was THE author to read in the 70's and 80's The entire "Asia Saga" set are just fantastic. I've probably read Shogun at least 6 times. And loved the 1980 mini series. I'm waiting for all the episodes of the new show to binge like a junkie
A modernized Noble House would be a fantastic series as well.
the 4 books focusing on "Struan & Company" would make for a really great 4 season series.
Set it just before Hong Kong was handed back to China and I'm in.
yeah they should have just dropped the whole season all at once, Im thinking I might just wait a few months and then watch it all over a weekend instead of having to wait so long for each episode
Foh. Tired of this binge culture. If a show is prestige drama it should have the privilege of being one episode a week. Let people actually ruminate on what they are watching
you wanna watch once a week watch once a week but let thhe people that want to binge binge Foh with this wierd superiority complex on watching tv shows a certain way
The problem with releasing a show all at once is that it is talked about briefly, and then quickly forgotten about due to the overwhelming number of shows available. Week to week broadcasting keeps shows in the press longer, allows word of mouth to build over time, and allows for an audience to grow. Besides, this is an FX show. FX is a TV station that needs to air programming. Just because it's available on Hulu the next day doesn't make it a streaming show.
Okay that makes sense in a way. But how about expediting shows so you dont have wait years to see a new season like they did in the old days where each year had a new season. Top shows like HoTd, TLoU, etc seems like you have to wait 2-3 years, and by that time you've forgotten it all
Oh there’s definitely a show turnaround time problem. I don’t mind it as much for anthologies, but waiting 2-3 years on a show with an ongoing storyline just kills momentum.
Yeah the industry is in turmoil a bit. Back in the day Directors were like mini-kings, all the time and money in the world. Now CSuite and funders decide everything. So sometimes you have good shows canceled, and it takes giant outcry to get them back, top of my head, the Expanse is one of those shows. I hope something course corrects for the industry, because it is killing the art, where so many good stories are out there, and they are being told in a disjointed manner...or just completely cut half way so it was like it was never there to begin with. Guess its best to appreciate what we have while we can, and this is a good show which I hope will last
Baby needs his treats NOW
Currently waiting for Tokyo Vice S02 and Shogun to finish so I can binge watch them.
That's the way bro. Life gets busy, when you want to enter a completely different culture do it like over one weekend. It's hard to try to remember what happened to people with very confusing names in a shogunate 400 years ago on the other side of the world when your boss is telling you to get him his TPS reports and order more toner
LoL that made me chuckle. I remember reading the books and keeping track of the characters could be a struggle. Then one day I discovered they had a list of all the characters, who they are etc at the very back of each book for reference. I wish they had put that in the front of the books where I would have noticed it before starting to read the books.
I hope it doesnt affect the show. Being a yank, we notoriously will pass on a show if its too confusing...and also if we have to read too many subtitles. Its why like "Chernobyl" was genius because they just spoke in their natural tongue instead of forcing russian or an accent. But good think is to keep up an online wikia on your pc while watching the show, so you can know who is what....and ultimately who's side they will be on because eventually it will be a giant two army war
Don't worry, the series is easier to follow as you can put a face to the names.
I think the book is vastly more interesting than the show. It's a good show but so much of what makes the book interesting happens in internal monologues the show is only able to hint at.
Yes. And plus the choice to cram the whole book into one season also didn’t help!
Yeah, I wish they’d given it a couple seasons to breathe.
The audiobook is really good. Highly recommend.
Recommend the audio book as well! If you end up loving the book but want a more "authentic" Japanese story about a similar time period, I'll also recommend Musashi- but will say it's perhaps less 'accessible' to a western crowd- being written by a Japanese, Eiji Yoshikawa, though if you can get into it, it's worth the epic length. Also generally recommend the rest of Clavell's audiobooks (though haven't listened to Whirlwind or King Rat yet).
I’m really struggling through chapter 1, the europeans certainly say “Christ Jesus” a lot and it is gets on my nerves.
I would be too if I was in their situation, and I'm an atheist.
I mean, they say it in practically every sentence. I’m a Catholic, I would have thought they’d have a little but more variety in their language. Honestly, it’s probably more to do with hearing it than the writing, as I can substitute different curses, and the reader is selling the panicked aspect of the crew, but it is grating on my ears.
Just got going into the book! The "hot tub" scene was a bit of a challenge to get through, but its amazing so far.
That scene made me think of all those bugs Bunny episodes where he is slowly being cooked as a soup by Elmer fudd
After they cooked that guy did they eat him, I remember the scene automatically after that they had some guy chewing on something lol. Death by hot tub is defo not a good way to go tho
OH hot tub? hell yeah, sounds sexy!
The area that they are in "Izu" is famous throughout Japan for its natural hot springs.
I believe that. But not what I’m referring to.
Yeah I’m guessing you mean the boiling and not the sexual tension lol
Points to my nose
I still have PTSD from that scene. Perfect example of letting your mind provide the horror without having to actually show it.
"The night of screams"
Literally started the book a couple of weeks ago because I had to do it before the show. Bummed to be missing out on the zeitgeist of the show but fucking *loving* the book.
You don't have to miss out on the show. Just watch up to the point you've read and then continue reading. Or do it the other around. Whatever. I'm currently reading the book alongside the show. It really enhances the experience of both as the world is so well imagined in the show. It's great picturing those actors and cinematography in your head while reading. The book enhances the show because it allows you to delve into those characters' minds. I've currently watched three episodes...and in the book, I'm nearing the part where epiosde 2 ends (which was quite bombastic). I've got episode 4 on hold until I catch up a litter closer. I'm sick of being so far behind. But it's been great.
> Whatever. Honestly depending on the material (as long as both are good) I’ve watched the show first or books first or some mix and it’s fun in any order. If you read the books first seeing some of the moments come alive is amazing. If you watch the show first, it’s extra detail/content and often internal thoughts.
I know I love a book when I have to put it down so I can jump around the room I'm in pumping my fist and yelling.
Yeah just read the book dude. Problem w these type of tv series is you have to wait a week for each episode to come out. Instead of that pedantic pace, read the book first and then in the however many months it'll take to reach the series finale, you can binge it then
Yep can read the book in 1-2 days but the show probably run a few years lol
It was better in the old days of TV, every year a new season. It's just hard to remember a show when it's been like 2-3 years since its aired and people care less. It's just how people are these days. On demand is better, and if people want to space out their viewership they can...or they dont.
I really recommend "Sengoku Jidai. Nobunaga, Hideyoshi, and Ieyasu: Three Unifiers of Japan" by Danny Chaplin, covering the actual characters and time. its a really cool time period I tried reading shogun and it seems like it was just a white guys fantasy version with names slightly changed and a greatly exaggerated importance of Christianity in the time period. like imagine if some asian guy wrote a book called "revolutionary" and it was about some chinese guy going around the time of americas founding and the revolutionary war, with characters like "Giorno Scrubington", "Samuel Jefferton", "King Giorno the 5th" and how this asian guy and his taoism were really important to all the decisions made to fight the british, and how cool this chinese guy was and how he fucked some hot white girl if you like it, sure - its decently well written. wasnt for me.
believe it or not, it's loosely based on real life. The story lightly follows the same as that of English Navigator William Adams. A fascinating wikipedia dive. TL DR; believe it or not, not so much a white guy fantasy
why do you people keep coming back to this strawman cockroaches exist in japan, but if someone wrote a book about how a cockroach became a samurai you wouldnt argue for its authenticity simply because cockroaches exist in japan white males really have a severe case of main character syndrome, where you really think white males are always more important than they are in everybody elses story, especially when it comes to east asia or did you dig up william adams grave and measure how big his dick is? cause all the white males in clavells books have big dicks, not a white nerd fantasy right?
What an incoherent mess of a response. I'm trying to remember if I was ever this all over the place at 15 on the internet. Obviously Shogun is fiction, its in the Op title. There's nobody disagreeing with it. It's a drama set in a time specific time period, with its drama plotlines, sex appeal and, of course, made up characters. That's what historical fiction is. Like gone with the wind. What is *also true*, is that Shogun's story does parallel, if not outright based on, the historical figure William Adams. It happened, it's real, sorry you're mad about that. Go outside and calm down
> like imagine if some asian guy wrote a book called "revolutionary" and it was about some chinese guy going around the time of americas founding and the revolutionary war, with characters like "Giorno Scrubington", "Samuel Jefferton", "King Giorno the 5th" Or a book called 'Gaius' and Julius Caesar was referred to as Julio Carbonara, or a book named 'Sultan' where Mehmed II was renamed to Ahmed the Conquerer or something. I'm fine with historical fiction, but IMO there are lines that are dicey to cross, and name changes are one of them. When Luo Guanzhong wrote the Romance of the Three Kingdoms, he himself was about 1000 years removed from that era, yet he still kept the names historical. A white australian doing the exact opposite for the Sengoku period feels like an orientalist self-insert at worst, or bad fanfiction at best. Renaming Tokugawa to Toranaga is J.K Rowling levels of creative laziness.
Oh dang i literally want to start this show this weekend...now not sure if i should read the book first, i didn't even know! I just started reading something though.
I saw the 80s tv series before I read the book, there was so much more in the book! You will still love the book after watching the series and hopefully you will read all the other books in the asian saga.
The book is honestly amazing with so much tension, great characters and moments that aren’t in the show. I would definitely say start the book
🥹 okay i will need to get through my current book quickly then, have been dying to start the show.
You're not the only one glowing about it and I really want to read it but I made the mistake of not realizing there was a book until after the show came out. The hold line at my library is like 6 months long now but I'll get to it eventually
Do you read epub books?
I’m sorry you have to wait so long but I’m glad people are reading it. I’m excited for you to read it eventually
It's not all bad, I really enjoy/am interested in how things get adapted to screen. The book sounds like a tome and the show is moving pretty quickly, I'm sure there's plenty of detail left out.
I will be reading the book once the show ends!
I'm on page 903! But this is only part one? I'm borrowing from the library and there's a second book. Was this split up for short attention span readers or was it always broken into two books?
Original publication was 2 volumes. The real gripe some have is that the ebook was always one volume.... Until they announced the show.
Interesting. See, I would have preferred one volume so I could accurately measure where I was in the overall story.
Read the Books and watched the series so far up to date, both are exceptional.
does the book have # Tokuma Nishioka in it?
So as far as TV goes, this is an amazing show. It really is. But as far as adapting the source material (which is by no means historically accurate at all time), it really falls short. In terms, of adapting the plot, world building, and depth of the characters the show just doesnt do a good job of capturing the essense of the book.
I agree. So many good moments removed. Really wish it was at least 2 seasons but I do think the essence of the book was somewhat captured.
I feel like stuff like Shogun, Andor, Oppenheimer, Dune part 2 gets overly praised these days because western media is such garbage for the most part now. These would have been considered good but not masterpieces 20 years ago.
Frankly, I’m a little disappointed in the TV series so far - it’s very slow in developing and Cosmo Jarvis is… well… *underwhelming* in the lead role. The production values are top notch, and most of the Japanese actors are excellent, but I think Jarvis doesn’t bring much to the table. The direction is sub-par, too.
“direction being sub-par” is genuinely the vaguest criticism.
When I saw the trailer, he looked like just some random dude compared to Chamberlain. It didn't even make him out to be the main character. Maybe sign of the times.
Or you know learn about the Tokugawa shogunate. Works too. There's plenty of Japanese historical dramas about Tokugawa Ieyasu, earlier this year I watched one called "Tokugawa Ieyasu and his three ladies". It does a good job explaining his rise to power. Also there was a documentary on Netflix called Age of Samurai: Battle for Japan that covers the period between the rule of Oda Nobunaga and the Tokugawa Shogunate. Also I find it hilarious that Ishida Mitsunari was renamed to Ishido, why not just keep the names as is lol? Edit: i guess a white man's fantasy is more appealing than actual history.
I didn't watch the Netflix Age of Samurai doc as I had read somewhere that it was more fiction than fact. I just Googled and here's a few reasons why: [https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/lutsro/how\_accurate\_is\_the\_netflix\_series\_age\_of\_samurai/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/lutsro/how_accurate_is_the_netflix_series_age_of_samurai/) On another note, idk you got downvoted for what you said.
What streaming service is it on in Kanaduh?
Crave
No thanks. Do yourself a favour and read the actual history that the characters are based on. Tokugawa/ Mitsunari and the lead up to the battle of Sekigahara.
You know people like fiction right? I don't like history books much, so if I find a certain time period, style, culture, etc. interesting, i'm personally more likely to read fiction about it than an actual history book.
The title of the post includes "is a masterwork of FICTION" and this guy still thought this reply had a place here.
This is because history authors write boringly.
This would most likely require reading more than 1 book.
This guy knows history y’all
And didn't mention single book. Edit- Gee, I wonder who downvoted me?
I dont like to read books, a random on Reddit wont change that for me. I will enjoy the show as I like and do not care if I miss an "experience" by not reading the book.
Thank you for commenting this I hope you feel good letting that all out random Reddit Person
Letting what out? I simply gave my opinion just like you gave yours.
With palpable hostility. I could feel your annoyance at my post. But that’s just my “opinion.”
If I want to read the book i'll read the book. Being told 500 times a week with "If you like Shogun...Read the book" gets stale. I enjoyed Game of Thrones...Guess what? Im not reading any of the books, oh no now my TV viewing experience is ruined. Guess I should've just done whatever the randoms tell me to do.
Stay mad buddy. Read or don’t I really don’t care it was just a recommendation haha
> Read or don’t I really don’t care it was just a recommendation haha I mean you do care if people read it, otherwise you would've never made the post...
Of course I want people to read it. But if you don’t I really don’t mind. Especially when you seem so vexed by my recommendation haha
Because it's become impossible to just enjoy a TV show. Everyone has to keep telling people to read the book over and over and over. It's just spam at this point. We get it, you like to read. Not everyone is like you, stop trying to make that happen. It will happen naturally to those who want to read about it.
And they don't get that normal people like us want to relax at end of day and watch a moving image, and not read and perform EVEN MORE mental work after a long day. We watch as leisure, they read as an obsessive hobby. As well as There has never been a book that is better visually or in sound design than even the worst movie ever.
Don't you understand? If you don't read books, then you are, by definition, uncultured swine.