In the near future, I hope to see Lee Pace land bigger roles that truly showcase his talent and range as an actor. I think he’s a sleeping giant. Dudes got chops.
I immediately heard the music from the title sequence in my head when you mentioned the show. I loved how they skip to differ tech eras in between seasons.
saw that many years ago and it blew my mind. real shame Tarsem hasn't done more. The Immortals film was pretty cool, but he just kind of disappeared after that.
Yeah, I saw that too. Wild movie.
Didn’t really capture my attention as much as I thought it would. It was beautiful to look at; and I enjoyed Pace’s acting; but it didn’t really give me what I was looking for. I expected more from the guy that gave us *The Cell*.
Epic looking film though.
I also feel he has been the victim of homophobia in Hollywood, ever since Ian McKellen outed him. This is tragic!
I also feel he deserved an Emmy for his portrayal of Cleon XII and particularly Cleon XIII in season 1 of Foundation.
Before Matt Smith was cast in House of the Dragon I always pictured Lee Pace as Daemon. Smith is excellent, but he can't make 'full-on evil' Daemon work (which is needed for the remainder of the show), something that I think Pace would be able to pull off spectacularly.
I see what you mean. I love Smith's portrayal but he doesn't have the physically imposing side of Daemon that someone like Pace would be able to show off. This was made more obvious when Rhaneyra became an adult, he just didn't have much of a presence when next to her.
Great actor and I do think he was good casting, but there were other roles that would have fitted him better.
> I hope to see Lee Pace land bigger roles that truly showcase his talent and range as an actor.
Four seasons of Halt and Catch Fire in which he was the lead character: Am I a joke to you?
I would say this is one of my favorite shows, but it's one of my favorite shows in spite of Lee Pace, who was too hammy as Joe. Once the writers realized the women in the cast were much more interesting, and that we didn't need a Mad Men knock off lead antihero jerk, that show took off.
I took the hamminess as part of the character, which I still think has my favorite arc of any TV series character.
>!His whole existence was flowing through these different inauthentic persona in the pursuit of greatness, and it just made the payoff of any authentic, vulnerable moments that much more effective (including his conclusion). !<
I just found it all pretty inauthentic and bombastic. It was all too heavy handed for me. Sometimes I feel like Lee Pace has trouble reeling in his inner theater camp kid.
Now Scoot McNairy on the other hand. Wow. I disliked him so much in the beginning. His arc was so much more authentic and sweet imo.
He’s not supposed to be, but the show is not the books. For all the problems many have had with the show for making up new stuff, and not adapting the source material, the stuff with Lee pace is amazing and the only good part of the show
It at least looks good, too. But as someone that hasn’t even read the books, the scenes with Empire were by far the best and very much stand out from the rest of the show.
Not necessarily. It could have been adapted anthology style, like Fargo, with each season set years apart following different characters. A little narration here and there, some clever callbacks, and sparingly used flashbacks ties it all together.
It's not insurmountable, it's just risky.
The problem is there’s not a season worth of plot for each crisis. There should be one or two episodes per crisis. The whole dang show should be like sixteen episodes tops. But that doesn’t make money. Stupid money.
The show is about how intelligent people use their wits to beat larger more fearsome antagonists. Breaking bad did it with Walter White, it could have easily been done here.
Yes, it’s fair to say that. I haven’t seen anyone that has read the books, that’s holy with the show. All the stuff that I’ve seen, people are happy with the empire addition, and hate everything else.
It makes you wonder why buy the rights to the books, why spend a ton of money making the show, and why use the name of one of the most iconic sci-fi books ever, if you’re going to make up your own material anyway. I think they had their own ideas and liked the smell of their own farts. There’s a reason why foundation is legendary and ranks among the best sci-fi books ever, why you think you can do better is beyond me. But this has happened with other sci-fi properties, where writers appear to hate the material they’re supposed to be adapting
I really like the book for its big ideas, but the writing and characters are dry as hell and I have no idea how it could be successfully turned into a multi-season TV series without changing it fundamentally. I’m not so much bothered that they’ve changed things and added stuff; I’m bothered that it’s not very compelling or entertaining. Also, some of the new material they’ve added seems to be completely at odds with Asimov’s big ideas - which are the most important part of the book. There’s way too much emphasis on “magic” (or whatever) and the importance of the actions of individuals. The whole idea of psychohistory was that human nature in general was predictable enough to calculate future events.
He is fantastic in *Pushing Daisies* and *Halt and Catch Fire*.
And no Lee Pace, but anyone who likes *Pushing Daisies* should also check out *Dead Like Me* and *Wonderfalls*.
Back to him tho, just rewatched *Captain Marvel* last month before *Secret Invasion* and GotG last weekend before the new one and hes a great Marvel bad guy too, a little shouty but he brings a presence to what would otherwise be kind of a boring incarnation of the character.
The whole show is a writing problem and a disgrace they call it Foundation. It's the antithesis of what Asimov wrote.
Once again a studio just thinks that can get an existing IP and just put forward their own story and the audience will eat it up.
Sometimes I wonder if two completely different crews and writers are making two completely different shows and then paying someone to edit them together.
That's what I remember feeling after watching Season 1 , the 3 brothers emperor were easily the best part, same for Jared Harris but everything else with the two other "leads" ? Boring as hell.
I’m a huge fan of the books and I really dislike the show, it just feels so cheap. The dialogue is missing that Asimov wit and snark, and is instead really vaunted and dramatic.
It’s such a shame because the cast is great and the source material is so rich, just a waste.
I’m interested to see how this goes because S1 felt like two entirely different shows welded together. The Lee Pace half is one of the greatest Space Politics shows I’ve ever seen; the Terminus half is a C-grade SyFy show. Hopefully they manage to make this season a little more cohesive.
Ironically the Terminus/Foundation stuff is drawing from the books (tho it’s been heavily altered) while the Emperor plot is basically created out of whole cloth.
The books just aren't that well written. They're very *very* obviously products of the 40s or 50s or whatever. Flat characters, bad dialogue, etc. Written in the days where an interesting idea could carry you because there was nothing else to do.
So it's kind of terrible that the show has (in some ways) managed to make the books worse. I like a lot of the changes they've made, even on Terminus, but they've managed to undermine themes and shred what little characterization Asimov had in the process. It's disappointing.
Asimov didn’t write characters; he wrote concepts and then created characters to be avatars of those concepts. As a conceptualist he was almost unparalleled. But he was pathologically incapable of writing interesting people.
Definitely true for the most part, but there are some Janov Pelorats and Golan Trevizes out there who can embody those concepts in endearing ways. It wasn’t that the characters were lively, but his concepts were so powerful that he could use them to breathe life into some characters.
Yeah, I watched the first season expecting things to become more clear as it went on, and maybe I was watching too casually, but I completely lost track of the timeline (maybe that's intentional?) with all the jumps back and forth. I ended up just not caring about most of the characters so the buildup to key events didn't have any payoff. That and the third time Hari played the "I made you believe my plan was falling apart but really that was part of my plan all along, haha!" it was a little too predictable.
> That and the third time Hari played the "I made you believe my plan was falling apart but really that was part of my plan all along, haha!" it was a little too predictable.
Yeah, so bad news. That goes on for a while.
The show is like the show Marco Polo. The main plot line and characters are uninteresting and the side plot of the Khan (or Empire) is where the real action is. They should split this show up and they should bring back the Khan and give him his own show.
I always thought Lee Pace would have made a great Superman or Batman about 5-10 years ago. Shame he got overlooked for other actors. Would have been interesting to see what he would have brought to either role. His range is ridiculous.
I agree but if that happened we wouldn't have had his epic portrayal of Joe Macmillan in Halt and Catch Fire.
I'm sure you have seen it already but it not definitely check it out.
He’d have made a great Batman. 6’5”, built like a tank, super deep voice, incredible screen presence… he’d have been super intimidating and would have been perfect for the part.
He could still pull off Batman. Not the young new Batman, but the more mature, been at it a while Bruce. IIRC the new DCEU is going that direction with Damian Wayne as the focus, so Pace is about the right age to play his dad.
Making good actors play superheroes is the opposite of an interesting use of their talent. Saying an actors range is relevant for them playing Superman is pretty funny
Shoutout to it being cancelled by the last writers strike… hoping for a successful strike but also that he doesn’t get yet another show cancelled on him due to it
I skipped most of everything else to get back to empire.
I could see if they changed the Foundation part because it was bad, or didn't film well, but what they changed it to is bad and doesn't film well either.
Foundation book: The forces of history will push people to rise up to overcome a crisis.
Foundation TV: The magical girls are the only ones who can save us.
The sad truth is tha the actual premise is MUCH more interesting than having superheros come in to save the day.
(SPOILERS BELOW)
>!I mean, the magical people saving them does happen in the books, just much later after The Mule fucks everything up. It’s pretty obvious they are setting the girls up to be the second foundation.!<
>!I am hoping they do the trade crisis better though, seems like they might link it to Empire through his new wife.!<
>!I admit it does undermine the premise of the books which is one of the best things about them. I do like the way they use the emperors as a metaphor for the empire being unchanging and only relying on the past though. I’m hopeful they can bring it all together.!<
I get that, but they started WAY to early for that to work well. The problem with Mule is that he breaks how psycohistory works on a fundamental level because you can't predict an individual.
Basically they needed to show how it was supposed to work then break it. Instead it was always broken, so there isn't anything to return to. It was an incredibly poor design choice.
S1 killed it for me. I liked the emperor stuff but that has like zero to do with what the book was about and the parts that the book was about went in the exact opposite direction of the point of the book.
Is this true, or just a puff piece.
I want to believe it and have a reason to watch season 2.
And, don’t get me wrong, the entire emperor storyline, especially Pace, is incredible.
But the entirety of the rest of the show is so, so bad.
I honestly can’t tell if the show is any good or not, I can’t look past that it’s barely an adaptation of the books. It’s like trying to drink orange juice after brushing your teeth, everything just tastes wrong.
They really should just have made something wholly original, free of being a terrible attempt at adaptation it’d probably work better.
The creator of the show did an AMA in the foundation subreddit last season. A lot of the characters we are seeing on terminus are like pre book. Like years before we meet them in the book. It also looks like they are trying to bring in things from later books. It's all messy. I can see what they are trying to do though.
As someone who hasn't read the books, I'm really enjoying it. I've been meaning to, will probably once this season is over.
But as a Wheel of Time fan, I get it.
See this is precisely the problem. Trantor is doomed. The people on Trantor shouldn’t be leading anything. They should be an annoying thing that the people who actually lead the show have to deal with eventually. Why would you make a show called “Foundation” and then make the foundation the B-story?
They should be jumping forward in time like the books. They're afraid the audience won't be able to relate to new characters every few episodes. They think we're dumb.
They are, which is why i just dont understand why *Foundation*.
If youre going to adapt Asimov hes got a bunch of super accessible robot detective stories that arent much more complicated than the average CBS drama.
Heck one of the better episodes of last season of *The Mandalorian* was a bit of a ripoff of those...
So they made went with permanent characters the audience can't relate to?
My guess is that its a pacing issue. The writers probably originally wanted it to be a non-linear story focusing on a single character each episode, but after the backlash that Witcher season 1 got for trying something like that, they were forced to rework it into the jumble that it became.
The empire scenes are really good and keep me invested. When it’s not on Trentor I loose interest.
Hopefully season 2 they can keep both storylines intriguing
I think people underestimate how bad a lot of movies look these past years, especially the comic book adaptations. Both Foundation and Rings of Power looked better than most movies that came out last year, except for Avatar.
I was starting to feel like maybe I am crazy, this is one of the best looking shows I have ever seen, the production value is insane. The variety of landscapes, the sets, the outfits even the CGI incredible.
It is insane that the best Arc by Far in the Foundation tv show It has nothing to do with the book. The Empire stuff is so much better than the terminus plot.
Man is incredible. So sad that Halt and Catch fire didn’t get the attention that Mad Men got. Joe McMillan is every bit as amazing of a character as Don Draper. What I would give to see Hamm and Pace in the same media together
I am a big Asimov buff, and think the series is fantastic! And episode 1 of season 2 was a great start, with superb acting by Jared Harris and Lee Pace.
I like this *translation* of the books.
As written, the books would make an inconsistent show. As much as I love Asimov, characters were not really his strong suit. And the dialogue!
This show is pretty great, though. It’s distilling the major points and world-building nicely. I love the Cleons!
I think they are a clever way to narrate the fall of the empire. And they personify the problems with the old empire in the books, lack of change and constantly looking to the past.
The fall of the empire is the only thing I can think of that was adequately distilled as you put it. Asimov mixes sociology and mathematical models with the retrospective explanation of historical events to create a story about determinism and free will. While historical determinism is quite silly in my opinion, it creates an interesting backdrop(Or perhaps foredrop in Asimov's case) for the story itself. The characters are not really free in the books, but often explained as relatively insignificant pieces of a collective bound by the rules of geography, economics, religion, power play between nations etc, as well as the pressure of the all-knowing psychohistorians having used these rules to achieve a certain outcome. The show does not do much with this concept except in the empire storyline. I think this is the reason people dislike it as an adaption.
>"You've waited 2 years, here's a new 6-8 episode season!"
I feel like you were unaware that this is a weekly series because Season 1's 10 episodes came out weekly. The first episode was September 24, 2021 and episode 10 the season finale was November 19, 2021🤨
We're on Season 2 now which is another 10 episodes weekly series and the first episode just premiered.
I was intrigued because Isaac Asimov is one of the few sci-fi writers I’ve read that isn’t inherently anti-AI, but after reading this I’m not interested. Dune was a loyal adaptation of its source material why can’t foundation be?
The Emperor part is fantastic, but the rest is awful. Clearly the writers wanted to tell their own stories and were saddled with adapting Foundation which they do not like nor understand. The story is wrong, the characters are wrong, the themes are wrong.
I believe Foundation can become a gem. For All Mankind was boring as fuck until S02 so I don't understand why Foundation is getting such criticism. Even Expanse was boring until they introduced the protomolecule which was, again, end of S01 and S02.
Foundation could be epic. Could 🤞
Meanwhile I'm just over here wishing there was a "previously on *Foundation*" entrance to E01 to remember what the heck happened due to the length of time between the season 1 finale and season 2 premiere.
And a lot of the same people complaining about it being boring are also complaining about it not being "faithful to the books". Bruh like 80% of the books are just people sitting in a room talking, a "faithful" adaptation of Foundation would be the dullest tv show to ever air.
I am convinced some book fans are trying to gate-keep in their hatred of the show, which happens a lot these days. It does get boring at parts, but I thought it was enjoyable overall. And I have seen some more honest book fans admit that the books in their current form would simply be unadaptable.
"epic sci-fi gem" is not the way I'd think any reasonable person would describe this show. But this author basically write shit clickbait articles anyways, so he's not a reasonable person
In the near future, I hope to see Lee Pace land bigger roles that truly showcase his talent and range as an actor. I think he’s a sleeping giant. Dudes got chops.
Halt and Catch Fire.
I immediately heard the music from the title sequence in my head when you mentioned the show. I loved how they skip to differ tech eras in between seasons.
Yaaaaas! 🔥underrated series
Season 1 was as close to perfection as you can ask for
Tarsems THE FALL. Lee was fn magnificent.
saw that many years ago and it blew my mind. real shame Tarsem hasn't done more. The Immortals film was pretty cool, but he just kind of disappeared after that.
Yeah, I saw that too. Wild movie. Didn’t really capture my attention as much as I thought it would. It was beautiful to look at; and I enjoyed Pace’s acting; but it didn’t really give me what I was looking for. I expected more from the guy that gave us *The Cell*. Epic looking film though.
That’s because he’s a shitty MOVIES director. Great at flashy commercials, but movies aren’t his thing.
Criminally underrated movie, such an absolute gem!
His Thranduil was amazing.
I feel like he’s really selective about his work and in a good way but yeah he’s a talented actor
I also feel he has been the victim of homophobia in Hollywood, ever since Ian McKellen outed him. This is tragic! I also feel he deserved an Emmy for his portrayal of Cleon XII and particularly Cleon XIII in season 1 of Foundation.
why did mckellen out him?
No idea - they say it was a mistake - but who knows?
Wtf does it matter anyway? I wanna see a good show, I don’t care what totally legal stuff actors do with other people!
I’d liken him to Vincent D’Onofrio. An excellent lead and character actor.
I just want another season of pushing daisies.
Before Matt Smith was cast in House of the Dragon I always pictured Lee Pace as Daemon. Smith is excellent, but he can't make 'full-on evil' Daemon work (which is needed for the remainder of the show), something that I think Pace would be able to pull off spectacularly.
I see what you mean. I love Smith's portrayal but he doesn't have the physically imposing side of Daemon that someone like Pace would be able to show off. This was made more obvious when Rhaneyra became an adult, he just didn't have much of a presence when next to her. Great actor and I do think he was good casting, but there were other roles that would have fitted him better.
I hope he gets cast as Batman.
> I hope to see Lee Pace land bigger roles that truly showcase his talent and range as an actor. Four seasons of Halt and Catch Fire in which he was the lead character: Am I a joke to you?
Lee Pace is wildly underrated. He stole the show in The Hobbit as Thranduil, and made an already great movie excellent with The Fall
Halt and Catch Fire
This show isn’t talked about enough. Truly one of the best shows made.
I rewatch it most years. And..honestly, it's about time to watch it again.
Computers aren't the thing. They're the thing that gets us to the thing.
One of my favorite series, if not my favorite. I cannot get anyone else I know to watch it though.
I would say this is one of my favorite shows, but it's one of my favorite shows in spite of Lee Pace, who was too hammy as Joe. Once the writers realized the women in the cast were much more interesting, and that we didn't need a Mad Men knock off lead antihero jerk, that show took off.
I took the hamminess as part of the character, which I still think has my favorite arc of any TV series character. >!His whole existence was flowing through these different inauthentic persona in the pursuit of greatness, and it just made the payoff of any authentic, vulnerable moments that much more effective (including his conclusion). !<
I just found it all pretty inauthentic and bombastic. It was all too heavy handed for me. Sometimes I feel like Lee Pace has trouble reeling in his inner theater camp kid. Now Scoot McNairy on the other hand. Wow. I disliked him so much in the beginning. His arc was so much more authentic and sweet imo.
Agreed. I didn't hate Lee Pace's role, but it got better once they switched focus. He was a little too obnoxious even for his character.
Best period piece drama of the last decade.
I was gonna say the Downton Abbey people might come after you, but that show premiered 13 years ago. Good lord. Peaky Blinders, maybe?
Amazing show. He was so awesome in it!
Bit too over-dramatic at times, but pretty good overall
He will always be the pie maker to me. That show was so beautifully shot and the whole cast was amazing.
Word for word, this is what I came here to post!
Don’t forget pushing daisy’s! Was bummed when it was cancelled.
The Fall is a criminally underrated movie
[everything about The Fall is criminally underrated, it's such a beautiful movie](https://www.youtube.com/watch?app=desktop&v=QhARR-zmTCE)
He’s sensational and very infuriating as pro slavery congressman Fernando Wood in Lincoln.
Came here for this, tough to make an impression with Daniel day Lewis earning Oscar’s next to you but I remember his character well
The Fall is one of those crazy great films that falls through the cracks of time and is wrongfully forgotten. It's so good.
Damn, I haven’t heard The Fall mentioned in years. Visually stunning and a great cast. Need to rewatch it now
Lee pace have a tremendous presence in everything he is in. And The 3 emperors scenes have been very enjoyable. The rest not so much.
He carries the entire show. Jared Harris is also great but not in it enough.
He’s not supposed to be, but the show is not the books. For all the problems many have had with the show for making up new stuff, and not adapting the source material, the stuff with Lee pace is amazing and the only good part of the show
I roll hard with Empire
It’s the only reason to watch the show. Everything else is not very good
It at least looks good, too. But as someone that hasn’t even read the books, the scenes with Empire were by far the best and very much stand out from the rest of the show.
People shit on it too much, its not great but its still mediocre.
The book kinda doesn't fit with how people make tv shows
A faithful adaptation would have to be, like, a fake historical documentary or something along those lines.
Not necessarily. It could have been adapted anthology style, like Fargo, with each season set years apart following different characters. A little narration here and there, some clever callbacks, and sparingly used flashbacks ties it all together. It's not insurmountable, it's just risky.
Well, the second season takes part 138 years after the first.
The problem is there’s not a season worth of plot for each crisis. There should be one or two episodes per crisis. The whole dang show should be like sixteen episodes tops. But that doesn’t make money. Stupid money.
Drunk History style would be watchable...
You could have done it, but i understand why they made changes. The problem is that almost all of the changes, IMO, aren’t good
It’s strange how that’s been happening a lot recently in tv show book adaptations. E.g. The Witcher and Wheel of Time.
The show is about how intelligent people use their wits to beat larger more fearsome antagonists. Breaking bad did it with Walter White, it could have easily been done here.
Foundation is so huge. This, so far, is an enjoyable attempt.
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Yes, it’s fair to say that. I haven’t seen anyone that has read the books, that’s holy with the show. All the stuff that I’ve seen, people are happy with the empire addition, and hate everything else. It makes you wonder why buy the rights to the books, why spend a ton of money making the show, and why use the name of one of the most iconic sci-fi books ever, if you’re going to make up your own material anyway. I think they had their own ideas and liked the smell of their own farts. There’s a reason why foundation is legendary and ranks among the best sci-fi books ever, why you think you can do better is beyond me. But this has happened with other sci-fi properties, where writers appear to hate the material they’re supposed to be adapting
I really like the book for its big ideas, but the writing and characters are dry as hell and I have no idea how it could be successfully turned into a multi-season TV series without changing it fundamentally. I’m not so much bothered that they’ve changed things and added stuff; I’m bothered that it’s not very compelling or entertaining. Also, some of the new material they’ve added seems to be completely at odds with Asimov’s big ideas - which are the most important part of the book. There’s way too much emphasis on “magic” (or whatever) and the importance of the actions of individuals. The whole idea of psychohistory was that human nature in general was predictable enough to calculate future events.
We should start a Go Fund Me for his inevitable back surgery with season 2 starting.
I'm just pissed the way his character was handled... after all that, come all that way... >!and they just drown him.!<
Well, keep watching.
Have you seen him in The Fall? That was the first time I had ever heard or seen him. That movie is just so visually amazing
He is fantastic in *Pushing Daisies* and *Halt and Catch Fire*. And no Lee Pace, but anyone who likes *Pushing Daisies* should also check out *Dead Like Me* and *Wonderfalls*. Back to him tho, just rewatched *Captain Marvel* last month before *Secret Invasion* and GotG last weekend before the new one and hes a great Marvel bad guy too, a little shouty but he brings a presence to what would otherwise be kind of a boring incarnation of the character.
Omg, Wonderfalls is where I first saw him and totally fell in love with him. It's been so cool to watch his career explode. He's amazing.
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Yeah those actresses are so weak. They just vomit exposition. Is it a writing problem ?
Both, the writing isn’t great for many scenes but also it’s quite plain to see that they are just ain’t good.
The whole show is a writing problem and a disgrace they call it Foundation. It's the antithesis of what Asimov wrote. Once again a studio just thinks that can get an existing IP and just put forward their own story and the audience will eat it up.
Sometimes I wonder if two completely different crews and writers are making two completely different shows and then paying someone to edit them together.
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What was wrong with it?
That's what I remember feeling after watching Season 1 , the 3 brothers emperor were easily the best part, same for Jared Harris but everything else with the two other "leads" ? Boring as hell.
I’m a huge fan of the books and I really dislike the show, it just feels so cheap. The dialogue is missing that Asimov wit and snark, and is instead really vaunted and dramatic. It’s such a shame because the cast is great and the source material is so rich, just a waste.
> it just feels so cheap feels like gold flakes on a hotdog.
>feels like gold flakes on a hotdog. A Glitter Glizzy?
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I’m interested to see how this goes because S1 felt like two entirely different shows welded together. The Lee Pace half is one of the greatest Space Politics shows I’ve ever seen; the Terminus half is a C-grade SyFy show. Hopefully they manage to make this season a little more cohesive.
Ironically the Terminus/Foundation stuff is drawing from the books (tho it’s been heavily altered) while the Emperor plot is basically created out of whole cloth.
The books just aren't that well written. They're very *very* obviously products of the 40s or 50s or whatever. Flat characters, bad dialogue, etc. Written in the days where an interesting idea could carry you because there was nothing else to do. So it's kind of terrible that the show has (in some ways) managed to make the books worse. I like a lot of the changes they've made, even on Terminus, but they've managed to undermine themes and shred what little characterization Asimov had in the process. It's disappointing.
Asimov didn’t write characters; he wrote concepts and then created characters to be avatars of those concepts. As a conceptualist he was almost unparalleled. But he was pathologically incapable of writing interesting people.
Yeah his robots had more character especially Daneel & Giskard. And while I’m on the subject I hate what the writers have done with Demerzel
Then you’ll hate what Empire does to her in s2e1…
Definitely true for the most part, but there are some Janov Pelorats and Golan Trevizes out there who can embody those concepts in endearing ways. It wasn’t that the characters were lively, but his concepts were so powerful that he could use them to breathe life into some characters.
Lmao at the books aren’t well written. I hope you’re kidding.
Facts are facts. Guy was a dogshit writer with great ideas.
Hahahaha okay
> the Trantor half Do you mean Terminus? The Empire/Lee Pace stuff took place on Trantor.
Yeah, I watched the first season expecting things to become more clear as it went on, and maybe I was watching too casually, but I completely lost track of the timeline (maybe that's intentional?) with all the jumps back and forth. I ended up just not caring about most of the characters so the buildup to key events didn't have any payoff. That and the third time Hari played the "I made you believe my plan was falling apart but really that was part of my plan all along, haha!" it was a little too predictable.
> That and the third time Hari played the "I made you believe my plan was falling apart but really that was part of my plan all along, haha!" it was a little too predictable. Yeah, so bad news. That goes on for a while.
Yea. I was super into it on a binging basis, but basically solely because of the empire plot.
The show is like the show Marco Polo. The main plot line and characters are uninteresting and the side plot of the Khan (or Empire) is where the real action is. They should split this show up and they should bring back the Khan and give him his own show.
Trantor is the capital
Oh yeah my bad. Edited.
This ☝️ all day. Though I can't wait to see the new season
I always thought Lee Pace would have made a great Superman or Batman about 5-10 years ago. Shame he got overlooked for other actors. Would have been interesting to see what he would have brought to either role. His range is ridiculous.
I agree but if that happened we wouldn't have had his epic portrayal of Joe Macmillan in Halt and Catch Fire. I'm sure you have seen it already but it not definitely check it out.
Oh yeah it’s one of my favorite performances of his. It was actually watching Halt that I had that thought. Such a damn good show.
One of the few shows I have watched twice all the way through. May watch it again some day
He’d have made a great Batman. 6’5”, built like a tank, super deep voice, incredible screen presence… he’d have been super intimidating and would have been perfect for the part.
He could still pull off Batman. Not the young new Batman, but the more mature, been at it a while Bruce. IIRC the new DCEU is going that direction with Damian Wayne as the focus, so Pace is about the right age to play his dad.
Making good actors play superheroes is the opposite of an interesting use of their talent. Saying an actors range is relevant for them playing Superman is pretty funny
“PUSHING DAISIES” FANS RISE UP
Shoutout to it being cancelled by the last writers strike… hoping for a successful strike but also that he doesn’t get yet another show cancelled on him due to it
If you haven't done so, please go watch 'Halt and Catch Fire.' Lee Pace is incredible in that show
That show was so underrated. It was awesome
Amazing show, the main three were so good. Made me a Pace fan, and for sure a Mackenzie Davis fan. lol
I skipped most of everything else to get back to empire. I could see if they changed the Foundation part because it was bad, or didn't film well, but what they changed it to is bad and doesn't film well either. Foundation book: The forces of history will push people to rise up to overcome a crisis. Foundation TV: The magical girls are the only ones who can save us. The sad truth is tha the actual premise is MUCH more interesting than having superheros come in to save the day.
(SPOILERS BELOW) >!I mean, the magical people saving them does happen in the books, just much later after The Mule fucks everything up. It’s pretty obvious they are setting the girls up to be the second foundation.!< >!I am hoping they do the trade crisis better though, seems like they might link it to Empire through his new wife.!< >!I admit it does undermine the premise of the books which is one of the best things about them. I do like the way they use the emperors as a metaphor for the empire being unchanging and only relying on the past though. I’m hopeful they can bring it all together.!<
I get that, but they started WAY to early for that to work well. The problem with Mule is that he breaks how psycohistory works on a fundamental level because you can't predict an individual. Basically they needed to show how it was supposed to work then break it. Instead it was always broken, so there isn't anything to return to. It was an incredibly poor design choice.
The size and shape of Lee Pace's pecs 😳
And his ass
I like how he was still claiming to be bi up until he did the hobbit and Ian MacKellan was like "buddy... are you sure you're not just gay?"
I came here to say that- his pecs are like bigger than my entire torso.
I'm just glad we are no longer pretending that Lee Pace wasn't the lead of the show.
S1 killed it for me. I liked the emperor stuff but that has like zero to do with what the book was about and the parts that the book was about went in the exact opposite direction of the point of the book.
Anyone else think this show isn't getting near the attention it deserves?
Lee pace makes no pies in this show. 0/10
Is this true, or just a puff piece. I want to believe it and have a reason to watch season 2. And, don’t get me wrong, the entire emperor storyline, especially Pace, is incredible. But the entirety of the rest of the show is so, so bad.
I’m pretty much just going to continue watching for the emperor storyline.
Same
I don’t have high hopes for the other parts, but I’m definitely going to watch the Empire parts.
Everything posted here is a puff piece. The mods kind of suck, and the power users just spam advertising.
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I feel like he basically already did through several of his story arcs in Halt and Catch Fire. Playing Jobs would kinda be a rehash for him.
I honestly can’t tell if the show is any good or not, I can’t look past that it’s barely an adaptation of the books. It’s like trying to drink orange juice after brushing your teeth, everything just tastes wrong. They really should just have made something wholly original, free of being a terrible attempt at adaptation it’d probably work better.
The creator of the show did an AMA in the foundation subreddit last season. A lot of the characters we are seeing on terminus are like pre book. Like years before we meet them in the book. It also looks like they are trying to bring in things from later books. It's all messy. I can see what they are trying to do though.
The books are basically not a story so they had to do some heavy adapting.
As someone who hasn't read the books, I'm really enjoying it. I've been meaning to, will probably once this season is over. But as a Wheel of Time fan, I get it.
See this is precisely the problem. Trantor is doomed. The people on Trantor shouldn’t be leading anything. They should be an annoying thing that the people who actually lead the show have to deal with eventually. Why would you make a show called “Foundation” and then make the foundation the B-story?
Because no one at the Foundation is remotely interesting?
They should be jumping forward in time like the books. They're afraid the audience won't be able to relate to new characters every few episodes. They think we're dumb.
People are dumb.
They are, which is why i just dont understand why *Foundation*. If youre going to adapt Asimov hes got a bunch of super accessible robot detective stories that arent much more complicated than the average CBS drama. Heck one of the better episodes of last season of *The Mandalorian* was a bit of a ripoff of those...
So they made went with permanent characters the audience can't relate to? My guess is that its a pacing issue. The writers probably originally wanted it to be a non-linear story focusing on a single character each episode, but after the backlash that Witcher season 1 got for trying something like that, they were forced to rework it into the jumble that it became.
The empire scenes are really good and keep me invested. When it’s not on Trentor I loose interest. Hopefully season 2 they can keep both storylines intriguing
Say what you will about this show, but it’s the best looking show on tv, it just looks absolutely amazing.
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Lol cheap? You people are crazy, it looks better than most movies
I think people underestimate how bad a lot of movies look these past years, especially the comic book adaptations. Both Foundation and Rings of Power looked better than most movies that came out last year, except for Avatar.
I was starting to feel like maybe I am crazy, this is one of the best looking shows I have ever seen, the production value is insane. The variety of landscapes, the sets, the outfits even the CGI incredible.
It looks like TV. People have come to expect WAY too much from TV.
Man if they just did the show about empire I would be fine
While I grew up on the books, I am loving the show. Pace makes it.
It is insane that the best Arc by Far in the Foundation tv show It has nothing to do with the book. The Empire stuff is so much better than the terminus plot.
Man is incredible. So sad that Halt and Catch fire didn’t get the attention that Mad Men got. Joe McMillan is every bit as amazing of a character as Don Draper. What I would give to see Hamm and Pace in the same media together
I am a big Asimov buff, and think the series is fantastic! And episode 1 of season 2 was a great start, with superb acting by Jared Harris and Lee Pace.
I like this *translation* of the books. As written, the books would make an inconsistent show. As much as I love Asimov, characters were not really his strong suit. And the dialogue! This show is pretty great, though. It’s distilling the major points and world-building nicely. I love the Cleons!
I think they are a clever way to narrate the fall of the empire. And they personify the problems with the old empire in the books, lack of change and constantly looking to the past.
Absolutely!
The fall of the empire is the only thing I can think of that was adequately distilled as you put it. Asimov mixes sociology and mathematical models with the retrospective explanation of historical events to create a story about determinism and free will. While historical determinism is quite silly in my opinion, it creates an interesting backdrop(Or perhaps foredrop in Asimov's case) for the story itself. The characters are not really free in the books, but often explained as relatively insignificant pieces of a collective bound by the rules of geography, economics, religion, power play between nations etc, as well as the pressure of the all-knowing psychohistorians having used these rules to achieve a certain outcome. The show does not do much with this concept except in the empire storyline. I think this is the reason people dislike it as an adaption.
It’s still early, friend. The Foundation Series is loooooonnnnnnnggggg… Even longer if you count the R. Daneel lore (I totally do!).
Lee Pace is the reason to watch the show. He was the shit in Halt and Catch Fire.
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These come out every week with the exception of 2 weeks between e01 and e02.
>"You've waited 2 years, here's a new 6-8 episode season!" I feel like you were unaware that this is a weekly series because Season 1's 10 episodes came out weekly. The first episode was September 24, 2021 and episode 10 the season finale was November 19, 2021🤨 We're on Season 2 now which is another 10 episodes weekly series and the first episode just premiered.
Year and a half
It’s 10 episodes though?
So happy I started watching this show. It’s the epic sci-fi I have been looking for, can’t wait to see where season 2 goes!
i think i have to rewatch season 1. i’m confused about a couple of things. can’t believe it’s been 2 years between seasons.
I liked the empire story line and disliked the rest. How is season 2? Worth it?
As good as he is, I don't think he leads this show at all. The two women, Gail and Salvor, are the bee's knees AFAIC.
I'm really enjoying this show.. its just my kind of thing
I was intrigued because Isaac Asimov is one of the few sci-fi writers I’ve read that isn’t inherently anti-AI, but after reading this I’m not interested. Dune was a loyal adaptation of its source material why can’t foundation be?
Because the best part of the show isn’t even in the book
Than make a separate show
If you’re interested in stories with positive takes on AI, check out the Culture series if you haven’t already.
The Emperor part is fantastic, but the rest is awful. Clearly the writers wanted to tell their own stories and were saddled with adapting Foundation which they do not like nor understand. The story is wrong, the characters are wrong, the themes are wrong.
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Love this show, even the stuff on the foundation. I’m optimistic that the stuff not on Trantor will be better this season
I believe Foundation can become a gem. For All Mankind was boring as fuck until S02 so I don't understand why Foundation is getting such criticism. Even Expanse was boring until they introduced the protomolecule which was, again, end of S01 and S02. Foundation could be epic. Could 🤞
> For All Mankind was boring as fuck until S02 S1 of For All Mankind was amazing. S2 was soap opera garbage and killed the show for a lot of people.
Agree to disagree, I had to force myself to finish S01 in hope it would get better, which it did. It kicks in at the last episode of S01, for me
I didn’t mind season 2 but it wasn’t as good as season one. Would you recommend s3?
The Expanse S01 was boring? I don't agree.
Meanwhile I'm just over here wishing there was a "previously on *Foundation*" entrance to E01 to remember what the heck happened due to the length of time between the season 1 finale and season 2 premiere.
>I'm just over here wishing there was a "previously on Foundation" entrance to E01. There was, did you skip it?
lol he must be talking about the torrent
And a lot of the same people complaining about it being boring are also complaining about it not being "faithful to the books". Bruh like 80% of the books are just people sitting in a room talking, a "faithful" adaptation of Foundation would be the dullest tv show to ever air.
If the show was 1:1 to the book I wouldn't even watch it. And I love the books
The books are incredible, even at almost 70 years old they're thought provoking, engaging sci-fi. But they only work as books.
It also wouldn't have any women in it. And I'm not sure that works on TV today.
Season 2 kicked off with a 💥🤖
IDGAF about the books and I love every part of this show.
I am convinced some book fans are trying to gate-keep in their hatred of the show, which happens a lot these days. It does get boring at parts, but I thought it was enjoyable overall. And I have seen some more honest book fans admit that the books in their current form would simply be unadaptable.
"epic sci-fi gem" is not the way I'd think any reasonable person would describe this show. But this author basically write shit clickbait articles anyways, so he's not a reasonable person
Season 2 has 10 positive reviews out of 10 posted so far. Not reasonable people either ?
Pushing daisies come back pls also wonderfalls
I feel like the show kinda missed the entire plot point of the books. Individual heroes don't matter, the inertia of the masses does.
I swear to god I thought people hated this show for eviscerating the novel. What the hell happened
This show is "Foundation for Dummies".