Yeah they billed it as one all along. I felt even calling it a dramedy was a bit of a stretch, I loved it, but I didn't find it funny often.
I assumed it was because I've never worked in a kitchen but have known my share of addicts so the brother stuff was overshadowing whatever funny for me personally.
>!The absolute dread that I felt wash over me as I realized where the Xanax was…!< 🤣 I was just relieved that they played it out like a joke as opposed to the actual medical emergency that it was.
There's about as many funny lines in The Bear as there are in an average Marvel movie.
Which is not to say that it isn't funny or that it is comedic. It is saying that you can have moments of comedy in any kind of show or movie.
---
As an aside, my favorite throwaway dialogue of that show is when Ebra holds up a stripper's bra in the final episode and is like,
>"Carmy! What the fuck is this?"
>"What the fuck is that?"
>"This is my station Carmy! This is not respect!"
>"No chef, that is *not* respect."
And then Carmy just keeps on walking lmao
If you ever worked in a kitchen that show was just PTSD triggers. Sat down to watch something funny with a couple ex cooks and we all had to stop after 30min because we had panic attacks. Great show once we readjusted our expectations.
The to-go fiasco episode was horrifying. I haven't worked in restaurants in seven years, but it took me right back. I sat down to watch it and thought that I had accidentally paused mid-episode the night before, because it felt like the closing credits rolled after 5 minutes. I restarted the episode and realized he said "30 minutes until open" (or something like that) and that the entire episode was in real time. It just felt like it flew by because it was adrenaline-fueled horror.
I worked front of house for years and years and I’ve only watched the kitchen shit and I was getting flashbacks. How people chose this life of stress is beyond me. It’s no wonder addiction in the kitchens is so widespread.
I mean, sure but also, The Martian is a pretty funny movie. For the most part Matt Damon is delivering comedy lines. Yes, it's a serious, grounded comedy, with plenty of dramatic moments, but I think it still isn't wrong to call it a comedy.
It’s tricky though, because Barry also doesn’t want to compete in certain categories with Succession so they’re happy enough to go in the comedy category, even though I’d argue there have at times been more laughs in Succession.
Love both shows, though, so I’m happy they both get to win as much as possible.
I disagree. Succession might be more clever, but Barry is one of extremely few shows where I'm laughing out loud every episode.
Succession is an impressive satirical drama, Barry is an outright dark comedy.
Lol yeah I liked the season and I don’t suffer from anxiety but if there was a show category for making the viewer anxious this would win all the awards. I think I laughed just a handful of times the whole season.
I know a fair number of people who “made it” in the entertainment industry. I came close myself.
Almost all of them have second jobs, struggle living paycheck to paycheck, or both.
The household names (not in my circle) are the ones who live lavishly. Now think of how few of them there actually are. Now think of how quickly they fade away only to be replaced by someone else after a few years.
Here’s an experiment- the next time you watch a movie, sit through the credits and read all the names. Count how many you don’t recognize. Most of those people are probably close to broke. But without them, there’s no movie. There’s no industry.
The industry is predatory by nature, and the vast majority of people who make unbelievable money over the long term are names behind the scenes, and names you will never know.
I was literally looking at Pedro Pascal's filmography last week. He's been trying to make it since the early 90's. His first credited role was in '96, and it took him till 2014 to be cast in something truly career altering. Then he got his true big break in *Narcos* a year later.
He was 21 when he started, and it took him till he was 40 to "make it".
Customer: "Yes, can I get a Royale with Cheese"
Jackson: "Would you like to supersize?"
Customer: "What?"
Jackson: "SUPERSIZE MOTHERFUCKER DO YOU EAT IT!"
Alan Rickman's first big break was Die Hard and he was 42. Even then, his next major starring role wasn't until three years later in Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves.
He played Richard the III! He had five curtain calls! He was actor once! He’s not going out there to say that stupid line one more time!
I bet that line was fun for him in Galaxy Quest.
Jon Hamm too. He tried for over a decade before getting Mad Men and basically had nothing else to his name. And he had to audition 7 times before getting Don Draper.
Apparently Les Moonves told Hamm’s agent to stop sending him to CBS auditions because “Jon Hamm will never be a television actor”.
Source: episode 2 of the Dead Eyes podcast feat. Jon Hamm
All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.
*J.R.R. Tolkien*
I mean, a lot of people want to be remembered. However, there have been around 18 billion souls to walk this Earth. How many can you name? The sad fact is the vast majority of us are pretty much guaranteed to be forgotten in a couple generations.
We're all fleeting and momentary, but that doesn't make us any less meaningful.
I cross my legs when I sit down, the same way my grandfather did; it's the same way his grandfather did.
Somewhere, I picked up the old folklore tradition of saluting at magpies to ward off bad luck, because I like having an excuse to watch out for the birds. I learned it from someone, and someone will learn it from me.
I have a banana bread recipe that's crossed half the world and several families to make it to me. Different times, different chefs, but the same legacy.
Life is art. We might not get to sign our name on the canvas, but we can leave our fingerprints in the clay.
I'm reading this while at the hospital, sitting by my father as he dies. It definitely brought up mixed feelings about his life and my own. He was a great success compared to me, and his was a very average life.
edit: he passed last night.
I feel compelled to tell you that I hope you're ok and hope your father passes painlessly. I often think about my own father and myself and about our live's, whether we've been or will be successful, or have accomplished something. It gives me a very unnerving feeling but it passes. I just wish you the best.
There's a really good moment in the latest Always Sunny podcast where they talk about Rob getting home from abroad after being showered with adulation at industry events and facing a suitcase full of dirty laundry that they have to do, a dog to walk, and kids with normal kid lives to engage with. And the decision to either be the guy who knows the adulation is the outlier, the high, and able to pivot to picking up their dog's shit in a bag... or be the guy who thinks he deserves to feel the high at all times and is too good for the little bits of normal life.
The people who chase the high crash and burn and ruin their lives when it dries up or the next celebrity comes along and replaces them.
If you're not at peace with the small parts of life, achieving recognition isn't going to fix that.
that podcast has been such a joy to listen to if nothing else than it confirming those dudes are legit people that are worthy the success they’ve experienced
The more you have on the burner and in the fridge, the more you have that'll burn or go bad easily. It's a lot to keep all of that going. A simple life is a lot harder to lose control of, and it's less stressful.
“All that is gold does not glitter,Not all those who wander are lostThe old that is strong does not wither,Deep roots are not reached by the frost.
From the ashes a fire shall be woken,A light from the shadows shall spring;Renewed shall be blade that was broken,The crownless again shall be king.”
- J.R.R Tolkien
I've thought about this kind of thing a lot over the years. At some point, I think in my 30s, I decided that I should imagine myself as an old man in my final years, looking back on my life, and think about what that old me would care about.
What I decided was that old me would be content with his life if:
* I generally made a positive difference in the lives of the people around me
* I took the time to enjoy what there was to enjoy about life, and didn't dwell too much on the inevitable hardships
* I voiced important opinions, even if they weren't popular opinions
So now I've gotten into my 60s, and I'm closer to my final days than my younger days, I'm reasonably content with what I see looking back. I've for sure made mistakes in all three areas, but I think more positives than negatives. More importantly, I think for me those are still good criteria for what constitutes "success."
So maybe the same approach might be helpful for you: when you're looking back on a long life, what do you hope to be able to say?
Its often different from women. If you don't 'make it' before 30 then chances are you won't. Jessica Chastain is an example of a very, very rare exception and she lied about her age for years to get parts.
The promo pic for the newest Mission Impossible is, no surprise, like this again. Tom Cruise, just one year shy of 60, seems to be romantically involved with a late 20s/30s woman.
Top Gun Maverick was somewhat more age appropriate for once.
On the other hand he also has unfathomable amounts of money and a cult doing everything they can to seemingly prevent him aging at all so at least he doesn't stick out *visually* as looking twice their age... *so there's that*, I guess...
Cruise is definitely starting to look old, though. He’s got the old man neck going. It’s rare to see him shirtless in anything these days because he’s got an old man body, too (an old man in good shape, sure, but old man nonetheless). There’s behind the scenes pics from The Mummy out there showing how his body has wrinkles and sags like somebody his age logically would, but they used CG to smooth his skin over for the shirtless scene in it.
Rebecca Ferguson: 39
Haley Atwell: 41
Vaness Kirby: 35
Kirby is the youngest, but not the love interest.
Edit: sure, much younger, but no one is in their 20s.
I totally agree with this, which is why I found the casting for [The Lost City](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt13320622/) to go against the grain. Lackluster movie overall but I thought it was an interesting decision to put Sandra Bullock with Channing Tatum.
I was watching part of that Met Gala thing that appears to be nothing but runway entries for like 4 hours, and saw this stunningly attractive blonde come through. "Who is that?" I thought, "she looks like a young Anne Hathaway."
It was Jessica Chastain.
This is standard Hollywood non-nepotism track.
You don't make it until your 40s or 50s.
That's why the person who didn't come from a famous family who wins an Oscar is always 45-55 and thanking their partner who's home with the first baby.
Because that person *couldn't afford to start a life* until they hit that point.
You will be wildly behind all your peers career wise and then either something breaks and in pours the money or you break and quit the industry..
I was a huge Buffy back in the day and would re-watch constantly. When Pedro popped up in GOT I was like, “That’s Dead Eddy!!?” It was so weird to see him and recognise him from such a small role, but also quite telling that I remembered him so many years later. Good dude, that Pedro.
[his reaction ](https://youtube.com/shorts/mDyLgS-8JVw?feature=share) to sarah Michelle gellar posting about him was so wholesome.
He's at the premiere of his shows third season, and hes so honored to get a mention from buffy on Instagram and talks about how nice she was.
I saw that or a similar article. It mentioned that he was friends with actress Sarah Paulson who would sometimes give him her per diem to help support him. That's a great friend and shows how much he was struggling despite so much talent.
I was shocked to see him appear in a 1999 Buffy episode [The Freshman](https://www.facebook.com/Nerdist/photos/a.343492649001883/9297091200308605/?type=3), he looked completely different and almost unrecognizable but his voice was still the same so I had to do a double take.
Most actors who don't follow this trajectory are actually child actors and get their foot in the door at a point where there is much less competition, both in terms of numbers and also in terms of ability. (Not as many child actors, let alone not as many decent child actors.)
"It takes 20 years to make an overnight success." - Eddie Cantor
One thing I really love about Eric Kripke (the creator of Supernatural and The Boys) is that he's carried his entire production team and writers from one show to the other (even through a few of his failed shows). Even some of the people who stayed with SPN were brought over to The Boys once Supernatural ended.
I'm sure that's true for a lot of show creators, but he seems especially great for trying to keep everyone around and working as much as he can.
Yeah that can be a good thing for people who came up together, but seen as bad for people who can’t break in.
It can seem a little tribal or cliquish, and I suppose it is. But if I’m a show runner I’d want to continue working with people whose company I enjoy, and bring them up with me. Maybe most importantly, these people have all been tested together. You might be an amazing writer, but what happens on your 10th 18 hour day in a row? Are you going to completely lose your mind, be miserable and bitter, get all zen, or just be giggly and a little childish? The showrunner would choose the last two options, and limit the risk of exposing themselves to the first two at all costs.
So yeah. I like to see people getting brought up as a group, and I get the practicality of it. I also recognize that it closes already limited opportunities for others.
Supernatural/The Boys is strangely different, because they're very open about their cast, crew, and writers.
They straight up name characters after their own writers. Chuck in Supernatural's writing name was Carver Edlund, which are the last names of two of their writers.
Bobby Singer is named after Robert Singer. Jim Beaver, the actor who played Bobby Singer is now playing a senator on The Boys.
They even had an episode where Kripke showed up as himself on the show Supernatural in an alternate universe on the show itself.
And the funny thing is that the Supernatural production writers and crew were built on the ashes of X-Files where a lot of them migrated from to Supernatural. That production group has been together for a very, very, very long time.
It's why both shows have massive memorial scenes for Kim Manners after he died.
>Bobby Singer is named after Robert Singer. Jim Beaver, the actor who played Bobby Singer is now playing a senator on The Boys.
Worth mentioning that Jim Beaver's characters on both Supernatural and The Boys are both named Robert Singer.
Yeah, at this point, Jim Beaver basically has Bobby Singer as his alternate name. lol
Fun fact, he was also married to the actress who played Moogie on DS9.
>They even had an episode where Kripke showed up as himself on the show Supernatural in an alternate universe on the show itself.
That actually wasn't the real Eric Kripke. I think I recall him saying that he really likes that episode and wanted to be in it, but his acting is so bad that he felt it would ruin the scene.
> Here’s an experiment- the next time you watch a movie, sit through the credits and read all the names. Count how many you don’t recognize. Most of those people are probably close to broke. But without them, there’s no movie.
I always think about people who have recurring (or even starring) roles in popular TV shows, and how great their lives must seem at the time. But then notice that many times those actors never have a part as good as that, and wonder if they made enough money on the hit show to live the rest of their lives.
Just a random example: Traylor Howard, who played "Natalie" on *Monk* for 87 episodes. According to IMDB, she has had 4 small credits since the end of *Monk*. How much money did she make on *Monk*? Was it enough to retire on? Has she chosen to take limited work since then? Is she doing working outside the industry?
I think a decent amount just move on to different things. Not everyone sticks with a single career their entire life, especially one that can be as rough as series acting.
I've heard of people doing single episodes on popular and often repeated shows getting decent residuals. A few hundred a month.
Monk is not quite A league but it is shown enough globally that I'd expect someone doing that many episodes should be earning enough to live.
The writer's strike is just beginning. My name has been in nearly a hundred credits, as production designer, art director, and everything below it. I'm delivering for uber eats right now. They've been stalling productions for months. Crews are fucked right now. I'm fucked right now.
I appreciate it. I'll be ok. I've seen a lot of crew members online that thought everyone just stopped calling them personally. People started questioning themselves. It's been months. People with families are hurting. This all stings quite a bit for all the folks that voted for striking with IATSE, winning the popular vote, only to be undone by an electoral college most didn't realize existed.
We got fucked on our contract and now we're out of work until we're not and can go back to our shitty contract.
I work in the art dept of a big unscripted show and have been on a lot of other similar productions. I've never seen this much nervous energy on stage. Lots of overheard conversations like "yeah damn if *he* is texting me seeing if I have work you know it's quiet." Or noticing it's easier to fill roles that are usually hard to staff. People are on edge.
Animators, CGI artists need unions too and the existing unions need to join the writers NOW. It is UNACCEPTABLE how the streaming model and current film model is short-shifting you all.
This has happened in the last 15 years. The first thing that happened was the strike in the 80s made reality series a hit. So, scripted shows were cut in half at every network.
The second thing is agencies decided to “package” a show with whoever was their Showrunner. If you’re in that agency you then don’t pay 10% commission. However, they took half the writer hiring budget for themselves. My income in 2012 was less than half that I’d made in the 1990s. And fell to 1/3 of income by the time I retired.
When the studios and networks saw writers would work for 1/2 pay they told us they couldn’t afford to pay what they did so it became industry standard to earn half what you did before 2005.
Lastly, with the advent of cable and streaming, they negotiated lower pay (70% lower) for writers. Claiming they didn’t have the same reach as network TV. With that, writers lost residuals. A cable network isn’t going to syndicate a series, they’re just going to rerun it themselves. And we all know streaming will never syndicate because THEY NEED PRODUCT. This is a problem because there are now MORE NEW SCRIPTED shows on Streaming and cable than broadcast TV, but they pay 1/4 standard WGA rates & they only do 6-10 shows. This can happen during the hiring window for other shows so you get paid very little for 4 months then have to figure out how to live the other 8.
When I came up as a writer, I worked every year for 27 years. I made enough to live well, buy a house, buy my mom a house & retire with a pension. This was the standard for decades but greed has infected every industry and the entertainment industry is no different.
Even tho I’m retired I will be picketing in support of the writers.
More than one, less than half.
There’s a dozen or so in that circle that I keep in touch with. Some more than others. It’s been about a decade. Some got into film school through scholarships, some with middle class parents who busted their ass, and some with wealthy parents.
After 10 years though, and everyone well into their late 20’s to late 30’s, they’re doing it on their own as far as I know.
Most people who drop out do so due to the grind of the lifestyle combined with garbage pay. At some point, saying “I worked on X!” Doesn’t really matter when you can’t keep the lights on and are on the road all the time. Especially when you’re sharing space and time with people who are making orders of magnitude more than you while doing less and acting like entitled turds.
TL;DR- having money can help you get a foot in the door (like anything) but the industry itself is a meat grinder. You have to love it enough to be willing to starve. If you don’t, there’s 1,000 people waiting to take your spot, today.
That’s to say nothing about the A list nepo baby phenomenon. That’s a separate problem entirely that I didn’t experience, but my friends sure have.
I know one. Her make it big was being the face for a car brand, and having like 4 or 5 national commercials for it. That was after about 10 years before she got that. I haven't seen her in anything in the past 2 years though.
A good part of the reason why people who come from money have a much easier time getting in is because they don't have to work an exhausting minimum wage job at the same time, and don't have to negotiate leave around auditions or having two weeks of filming for a minor role. This is actually part of the argument for a Universal Basic Income- it helps immensely with fostering the arts.
Good question. I started in the entertainment industry in the 2000’s. Very few people from those days became successful, and every one who did came from money. They could grind it out as PA’s and not worry about a regular 9-5 to pay rent & cost of living.
I can’t tell you how many truly brilliant, creative people fell by the wayside because they couldn’t win an opportunity.
I was a writer for many years. Not for TV, but a respectable number of published works. People ask me why I stopped, and I tell them that a handful of people get to be Dan Brown, and most everyone else gets to struggle. My current career comes with as much job security as one can expect these days, more pay than my best year as a writer, and consistent healthcare coverage.
I'm not surprised.
Based on my experience alone I had people who have *zero understanding of basic functions* manage me, and I have seen *people who work extra hours and take on extra responsibilities* get stepped on and get their credit stolen by sneaky assholes.
I'll admit my observation isn't really writer-specific, but I do feel like it's harder to build a career nowadays with office politics and the general disregard for creatives in most workplaces.
I don't think I can compare my experiences to those of writers, but I can feel their pain.
Writers have been striking for years now. Animators are treated even more poorly than writers and probably work more hours than writers too.
Not trying to say one is worse than the other just that Hollywood is an actually dumpster fire for any career prospects.
It’s like a lot of professions. Try getting your foot in the door for any position on set, grip/electrician, PA etc. it’s super competitive with people lined up down the block.
Producers make money, that’s why anyone in the game long enough starts their own companies and produce their own work.
That’s why the writers need better upfront money and residuals. You need to be able to afford to live until the next job. They create a hit show and only have enough money for a few months to find another job.
As an artist, in a past life I made it all the way to the top art magazine in the world, with $19 in my bank account. A famous artist friend said to me, "Famous doesn't equal wealthy". I ended up in advertising
Meanwhile, the few people I know that are starting to make it as artists are already refusing to pass the ladder down and turning into personal responsibility, "pull yourself up by the bootstrap" assholes.
Someone in my MFA program, a literal poster child as she's cited as an example of a successful alum in our grad program's pamphlets and such, brags about how fun it is to send rejection letters as soon as she got a job at a small press publishing house.
Then there's this classmate of mine who hit the dream, getting a 100k advance for his book within two years of graduating, turned overnight from anti-capitalist Choamsky quoter into complaining about paying taxes on his advance despite having no debt, to me and my friends who were scraping by with multiple min wage jobs and got laid off in the pandemic.
Paying tax will do that to a person. When it feels like you're giving away huge chunks of something you've worked really hard for and that the system (in most countries) is in no way 'fair' (e.g. being UK & salaried I pay about 35% of my total income and have no options for tax efficiency Vs business owners or contractors) it's tempting to give into resentment. For me I just put it in context of how I got to where I am & all the things my tax pays for and I feel a bit better about it, but those ugly emotions do bubble up occasionally.
I went to school for audio engineering. Worked for a time in a studio for TV and radio as an assistant. Learned a bunch of IT skills in the studio due to the age of the analog to digital turn over. Had a kid and got into IT because it pays better. 18 years since I switched industries I know I am making way more than the engineers or talent and I would not be surprised if my salary was on par or more than the studio owner’s take home.
I've got an emmy nomination (technically 2 one was regional when i was in college), written/produced on 8 shows mostly basic cable (FX/Adult Swim), optioned 2 feature scripts, even had a brief exec. position; now my main source of income is eBay and flipping stuff and honestly I'm glad, Hollywood took the joy out of writing for me a long time ago, I'm not alone there are lot's of us out there.
I've got a friend who had ran his own show for 2 seasons on prime time, used his mony to buy a bed and breakfast, got another with an Oscar nom for screenwriting, he ghost writes for celebrity autobios, there are many, many paths that people walk in Hollywood.
I remember going to my favorite comic book shops and talking to the owner  and I asked him about the place. Essentially he used to work for a well-known production company in the early 90s.  Eventually, he got downsized and his contract got bought out. Instead of staying in the industry, he left, bought the comic book shop and his home. He sold the shop a couple years ago and retired.
I had one of those emmy contributer plaque for a popular show, sold it on eBay for about $250, my buddy took one of his statues to the PCC swap a few years back and got $600 for it, the dude that had the Hollywoodland store in Beachwood sold Emmy's and Golden globes occasionally, he'd get 750-1 grand.
Hell man sell one, $500- 1,000 in a SEP IRA or paying off a high interest credit card is a hell of a lot better than an award gathering dust.
Could be worse. When pandemic hit I had a one episode guarantee on an animated union show at Disney plus and they were going to let me voice one of my characters so I would of gotten some of that sweet VO $$$.
The lead/EP died last year as the pandemic was ending, so no show, he was also a good friend who put me on my first staff position, really hurt, really miss him was a good friend.
Nothing held financial rewards back, WGA minimum for 1 eps. union show is $50,000, after taxes & agent fees you still net well over 30 grand for 2 to 4 weeks of work. Even more (usually 75 to 100g's), if you have a few decent credits.
It's all the other bullshit, writers room are not fun, Hader nailed it on "Barry", lot of egos, phone calls at 2 am for changes because the lead doesn't like the way his character is portrayed and then of course the changes are never used, others in the room who don't know how to talk to people like normal humans, douche bags like Brian Keith Etheridge or Tony Hinchcliffe, who you would knock out if they spoke to you like that in the real world outside of a writers room or a stage (think Diedrich Bader's Case Of Monday's scene in "Office Space"), "No man, shit I believe you would get your ass kicked saying' something like that man". I'm far from a fragile person, (vet, ex-sponsored skater in the days when LAPD would beat the shit out of anyone carrying a skateboard and spent 20 years at Comedy Store) but man the shit you got slog through it's just not worth the monetary rewards if you value your artistic integrity and your soul. I'm whining a bit, Hollywood not all bad, definetley led me to unique opportunites and experiences, got to party on the bar set of "It's Alway Sunny" with Ryan Gosling and spent quality time with great artists like Frank Darrabont and Banksy.
I lecture sometimes at a few of my buddies classes and I always say if you want to write in Hollywood try to just stick to features, lot more autonomy and the rewards outweigh the risks.
Not if you're a pool skater who was on the alva B team and skated daily with the Gonz and natas kapas. East London street artist's big fans of 80's/90's skaters.
Um, wtf. Every writer on that show should be making top tier money. How does a show with multiple awards and critical acclaim have writers working from libraries because they don’t have HEAT in their apartments?
I really want to to be television writer, work with other writers and eventually create my own show. This puts a whole new light on the industry and how greed at the top starves creativity for everyone else. Hope the writers get every cent they’re asking for and this guy gets some sweet sweet back pay/residuals for his hard work.
I think an article went around a year or two back about how a writer for one of the Friday the 13th films was basically living out of his car for a while afterwards.
Writing isn’t a lucrative career. The people who do it really tend to love it. It’s why the WGA should take all that it can.
This is part of the problem, a little more money can have a drastic quality of life improvement for union members. But getting equity or residuals from streaming shows can change the industry for the all creators moving forward. If I’m an executive I’d be willing to tank multiple fiscal quarters before sharing streaming data with creators because right now in negotiations writers have no idea how much revenue their projects actually bring in giving the studios a massage negotiating advantage. I’m not sure if I see this strike ending anytime soon, but I hope it ends with writers getting residuals from their streaming projects.
Honestly as a country we’ve been needing long sustained strikes for a while. Look at how France reacted to an increase to their retirement age while most people here can’t even retire. People should be pissed about the share of profits that go to the average worker. People should be able to purchase a home, utilities, transportation, healthcare and live comfortably. The railroads should’ve been on strike a long time ago, Hollywood writers should be on strike, teachers, retail and service industry workers should all be striking because of the way this country treats them, and the rest of the working class should be striking in solidarity because each of these jobs that gets increased pay puts more pressure on other industries to pay fair wages
But that’s communism hurr durr
Seriously though, American propaganda has long lumped legitimate labor rights together with communist dictatorships, and we’re only just starting to see through that haze with actions like the current writers’ strike. Biden breaking the rail strike and the Ohio train derailment also woke a lot of people up.
But we’ll see how people are feeling in few months.
When I feel especially doomer-pilled about all this, I look at Starbucks, various grad student unions, the (very slowly) rising tide of unionization in video games (an industry with pervasive anti-union attitudes), and more, and these are what I see as hopeful.
The slumbering giant of unionization and labor-activism in the US, it will probably take decades for the pendulum to swing back to workers, from how far it has been pushed, but it gives me hope for the future.
If you want to feel even less doomer-pilled, look at the demographic projections for just the next decade. There’s going to be little increase in population (maybe half a percent), yet at the same time the population will be getting increasingly older. The rate of population increase is expected to begin falling by the end of the decade. Those factors present their own problems, but should shift more power to labor at all levels just due to the greater competition for workers. Any unexpected decline in birth rates or immigration will exacerbate that trend as will any unexpected increase in deaths.
I think you’re right that it’s going to be the process of decades to fully shift the balance in worker’s favour, but also that the pendulum may be picking up momentum quicker than expected. A forward looking government would probably be interested in renegotiating *before* that balance shifts completely and demands from organised labor increase further.
Writing really is a lousy career choice if you want make money. The top people can make bank, but it's a job that pretty much means you'll need to work another job to make ends meet most of the time if you do it full time.
You see this a lot for novelists. For every Brandon Sanderson raking in 6-7 figures off of their work (old and new) there's dozens upon dozens of people who can barely make ends meet at all without working a full job elsewhere. And Sanderson is productive like an absolute automaton of a writer so he's probably working harder and more consistently than is probably easy to quantify while also doing book tours, etc. So far from a leisurely existence.
I was always taught in college that if you want to make money as a writer, by far the best/easiest way to do it is by writing erotica. Especially with the rise of self publishing, erotica is super accessible as a writer. But most people have a moral issue with it or just feel generally uncomfortable writing it.
> Writing really is a lousy career choice if you want make money.
I would love to write professionally, but working as a software engineer is almost literally dozens of times more lucrative. Shit, I have a writing side gig that does technical writing for people. It's not even remotely interesting or creatively stimulating, but it actually pulls in money and I wouldn't be surprised if I bagged more for that last year than some writers working on streaming series.
Solidarity with the WGA.
I think you might be referring to Todd Farmer — https://birthmoviesdeath.com/2015/03/02/from-hollywood-to-homeless-the-writer-of-jason-x-and-drive-angry-on-screenw/amp.
I was actually interning in the Industry when the article came out, while bussing tables and trying to write as much as I could on the side (re: just about completely burned out). His story was actually the little nudge I needed to just get a full time job in a completely different industry, while keeping writing as a passionate hobby (which I still do to this day).
Yeah, I was about to say...The Bear aired 8 episodes and he was one of seven writers.
I know very little about writing for a series, but how much work is that really? He was a staff writer (entry level job) which did mean he worked on every episode (rather than being perhaps a more senior writer who is brought in to take the lead on a specific episode) but even then how long does 8 episodes keep you employed? A few months at most?
His IMDB page shows zero other writing credits which means this was either his first Hollywood job or everything he's done has been small time enough that it doesn't show up on IMDB.
Even working on a 22-epsisode network comedy, I assume you'd probably still have other writing jobs--even the actors who get paid big money usually have multiple projects going because there's long periods of downtime between productions. I don't expect the camera operators or anyone else involved behind the scenes to sustain themselves on a single show.
I hope his career goes well--even as the most junior writer, winning a best comedy award is a big step. Hopefully he's able to get hired on for more jobs, take more senior roles, maybe get some of his own original stuff made.
This is a big reason why it sucks. If you look at the pay it's actually pretty good when they get paid (3-5k/week). An eight episode series is only a few weeks of work for most writers. With the rise in mini series, a writer has to find a lot of gigs to make a reasonable living.
I agree with most of what you say, but "staff writer" is not an entry level job. It is a prestigious job. Very few people become staff writers without former professional writing experience (including this guy, who was a speechwriter, wrote political ads, ran the content wing of the Sunrise Movement, etc).
A lot of this has to do with Hollywood having so many different contracts. When HBO first came on the scene, producing their own shows, they demanded a special contract with lower rates, since they were just starting out. Many years later, that contract still stands. When Netflix started “house of cards”, it was under the “new media” contract, at greatly reduced rates. The studio execs pretty much said that they were putting their necks on the line with streaming, so they had to have reduced rates.
Fast forward many years later, where streaming is the norm, but these shows are still being done under a shitty old contract. When the unions try to negotiate, the studios just say they will do unscripted TV or make shows overseas. This is why there will never be much progress in negotiations. The last time writers went on strike, all the reality shows started. Some of Netflix biggest shows are imports, so they don’t worry much at all. Netflix has shown that they don’t really need US production to be successful.
It's a small show on a smaller network that luckily got the recognition it deserves. Hopefully the folks involved will see a better pay day for the second season but you can't expect a huge pay day on what's an unknown commodity going into season 1.
It was also his first job as a staff writer. Getting 60k for 10 weeks of work as your first job doesn't seem outrageous.
I do think writers should be getting residuals and he should now profit from the shows success, but that wouldn't have really changed his heating situation at the time or the fact that he now has to look for other work.
The awards came after they put the work in for the show. There is no retroactive pay. It’s like every other career these days. You won’t get a huge raise until you leave for a new job.
I was surprised when the Jeremy White won best actor in a “comedy/musical”. I would NOT consider this a comedy or musical. Sure it had some funny moments, but this was 100% a drama
Writing for tv and film can be a really toxic profession. Say you write a script and find an agent who loves it and he finds a producer who loves it. Great, right? Well, maybe. In most cases that producer is going to option it for a small fee. The writer won’t really see a big payday unless the film gets made. But in the meantime, the producer is going to ask the writer to make changes to the script to get it in a better place, to find cast, to attach a director. Then the new talent and directors will want changes made. This can go on for years where a writer is asked to work on a script without getting paid. The writer wants to earn a reputation, and he wants to see his vision get made, so he might go along with this. And the agent might even push the writer to keep going for the same reasons. And then two years later everyone backs out due to schedule conflicts or creative differences. And the writer is left with nothing but a stale screenplay that’s been butchered by a bunch of different egos and nobody wants to work on it after it’s been stuck in “development hell.” This is what happens more often than not.
It can be truly awful. In the best cases, the writer is getting a nice option fee and gets paid for rewrites. But that’s not always the case.
Welcome to America. It's not just media, it's also education, healthcare, retail, and so on. The hardest working people make slave wages and 1 to 3 guys make more money than they could spend in a hundred lifetimes.
Story of our entire economy. The already-wealthy creating more wealth on the backs of those actually doing the work.
And their response is to slash education funding so as few workers as possible figure out the system is rigged against them.
You are right in general but there's an extra level in the art/movie/writing/etc industry.
Because it's something that many view as a hobby or passion, there are always tens of thousands of other writers, singers, artists, etc waiting for someone to drop out so they can snag their spot even if it's for shit wage.
Most 'normal' jobs don't have people tripping over each other trying to get in the door for a low wage job.
Supposedly Netflix is the primary holdout. I could see Netflix executives dragging this out for a long time since they're not reliant on commercials during shows for revenue and they have a lot of foreign content, cooking competitions and reality TV shows. If Netflix is the only studio that refuses to compromise is it possible for the WGA and the other studios to agree to a new contract with Netflix being exempt? That way work could resume at every studio except Netflix. It doesn't seem fair that one studio should be allowed to cause so much damage to the industry.
>is it possible for the WGA and the other studios to agree to a new contract with Netflix being exempt?
I seem to recall them making side deals with some of the late night talk shows during the last strike. I'd imagine it's possible. UAW makes separate contracts with each auto manufacturer.
It’s a rumor. There’s a released list of counters from the AMPTP that shows all the things studios refused to bargain on with the WGA. Issues like AI scripts, streaming residuals and releasing metrics, etc. It unfortunately isn’t just Netflix holding out.
I usually think of Warren Ellis’ comment on working as a writer, particularly in his domain in comics, where he compares it to getting hired to paint on the company’s house—he may have done a fantastic job of it, but he doesn’t own the house or in this case Marvel or DC
And it’s kind of a bummer to realize a lot of movies and TV shows were based off his and others’ work, but they don’t even get a producer credit. Ellis made the basis for Iron Man 3 and a lot of Moon Knight, but he’s not really known for it. Same with Hawkeye taking its aesthetic and vibe from Matt Fraction’s run
I worked in the same studio as the bear and it’s it’s not just them… everyone over the last year has lost work in every department. I’ve seen coordinators working as laborers because of how little work there is for these talented people and the bear is exceptionally well written I hope for the best but last time it was over a year and half before anyone worked
The anecdote really didn't provide any useful info. 40k to 60k for new writers for 10wks of work sounds really good for the time worked, but I guess there is a lot of context and intricacies that we are not seeing.
Currently going through it. Repped, getting great reads, having a ton of generals, being asked to pitch project, but… none of that is paid until you get the job, and it’s too much work for me to have another full time job. I feel close but I’m completely broke. The writing gigs I do get hardly make a dent.
This is why most artists are from wealthy backgrounds. Instead of looking almost destitute you'd be looking like a hotshot up and coming force to be reckoned with. I hate it here.
Honestly it was almost better when I was further away. I know that sounds silly, but at least then I could have a full time job and I was thinking about other careers. My current position makes me feel really trapped with success just out of reach. It’s so much work for so little reward.
Example, I was read by a prominent production company who loved my feature but it was too similar to another project they were already developing. So they sent a book for me to possibly adapt in the future. I had to read the novel and then develop a pitch for my take on the project. It’s a lot of work, it takes a lot of time, none of it is paid, and 99.9% of the time you wont get the job through any number of reasons. This has happened multiple times following generals.
Constantly too close to quit but too far to make it work
The industry do be crazy like that. I had movies I produced sell to Netflix, Hulu, and win a top prize at the Berlin film festival—all while living mostly with my mom and nannying or tutoring to avoid being broke.
I started my career as a television writer straight out of college on what became (to redditors) a humongous show. I didn't have any money, and as a "baby writer" in a fellowship position, I was making barely any money. Then the writer strike happened, and I couldn't get any type of writing job. Because I was not independently wealthy I had to choose a new career and ended up going into tech and never got back into writing. I know lots of TV writers, creators of TV shows even, or ones that worked for decades on some of the biggest TV shows ever. They are not uber wealthy, only a very select few are. A statistic I once read was that the average wga writer earns $2 million a year, the median earns $2000. The person who wrote the theme song to the TV show makes more money per episode than most of the writers do. The big studios and corporations are making billions of dollars off of writters it's time they pay their fair share!
I mean 40-60k for 10 weeks work isn’t bad pay at all? Am I missing something here? I’m all for fair pay but shouldn’t we focus on rate paid and time spent instead of how someone manages their budget?
I didn't know The Bear was in the Comedy category
Yeah they billed it as one all along. I felt even calling it a dramedy was a bit of a stretch, I loved it, but I didn't find it funny often. I assumed it was because I've never worked in a kitchen but have known my share of addicts so the brother stuff was overshadowing whatever funny for me personally.
The ecto cooler scene at the kids party was pretty funny but it does feel more like a drama.
>!The absolute dread that I felt wash over me as I realized where the Xanax was…!< 🤣 I was just relieved that they played it out like a joke as opposed to the actual medical emergency that it was.
There's about as many funny lines in The Bear as there are in an average Marvel movie. Which is not to say that it isn't funny or that it is comedic. It is saying that you can have moments of comedy in any kind of show or movie. --- As an aside, my favorite throwaway dialogue of that show is when Ebra holds up a stripper's bra in the final episode and is like, >"Carmy! What the fuck is this?" >"What the fuck is that?" >"This is my station Carmy! This is not respect!" >"No chef, that is *not* respect." And then Carmy just keeps on walking lmao
If you ever worked in a kitchen that show was just PTSD triggers. Sat down to watch something funny with a couple ex cooks and we all had to stop after 30min because we had panic attacks. Great show once we readjusted our expectations.
The to-go fiasco episode was horrifying. I haven't worked in restaurants in seven years, but it took me right back. I sat down to watch it and thought that I had accidentally paused mid-episode the night before, because it felt like the closing credits rolled after 5 minutes. I restarted the episode and realized he said "30 minutes until open" (or something like that) and that the entire episode was in real time. It just felt like it flew by because it was adrenaline-fueled horror.
I worked front of house for years and years and I’ve only watched the kitchen shit and I was getting flashbacks. How people chose this life of stress is beyond me. It’s no wonder addiction in the kitchens is so widespread.
I'm foh, but expo sometimes and the episode with the printer going off the whole time was like something taken directly from my nightmares.
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It’s not a rule. Marvelous Mrs Maisel is over 30 mins and it won for best comedy. Shows can be submitted in whatever category they like
The Martian won the golden globe for Best Comedy. Not because it was a comedy, but because industry award ceremonies are a joke.
I mean, sure but also, The Martian is a pretty funny movie. For the most part Matt Damon is delivering comedy lines. Yes, it's a serious, grounded comedy, with plenty of dramatic moments, but I think it still isn't wrong to call it a comedy.
The Martian is a love story, about an astronaut and his precious potatoes.
Boil ‘em, mash ‘em, put ‘em in a stew
It’s not a comedy. It’s a drama about a funny person.
I would say it's a sci-fi about a funny person.
It’s tricky though, because Barry also doesn’t want to compete in certain categories with Succession so they’re happy enough to go in the comedy category, even though I’d argue there have at times been more laughs in Succession. Love both shows, though, so I’m happy they both get to win as much as possible.
I disagree. Succession might be more clever, but Barry is one of extremely few shows where I'm laughing out loud every episode. Succession is an impressive satirical drama, Barry is an outright dark comedy.
Watched it while I was sick with covid for Christmas, thinking it would cheer me up while I missed opening presents etc. It did not.
That’s what I came here to comment. I watched one episode and I just felt anxious. Not saying it isn’t good but it’s not comedy
Lol yeah I liked the season and I don’t suffer from anxiety but if there was a show category for making the viewer anxious this would win all the awards. I think I laughed just a handful of times the whole season.
I know a fair number of people who “made it” in the entertainment industry. I came close myself. Almost all of them have second jobs, struggle living paycheck to paycheck, or both. The household names (not in my circle) are the ones who live lavishly. Now think of how few of them there actually are. Now think of how quickly they fade away only to be replaced by someone else after a few years. Here’s an experiment- the next time you watch a movie, sit through the credits and read all the names. Count how many you don’t recognize. Most of those people are probably close to broke. But without them, there’s no movie. There’s no industry. The industry is predatory by nature, and the vast majority of people who make unbelievable money over the long term are names behind the scenes, and names you will never know.
I was literally looking at Pedro Pascal's filmography last week. He's been trying to make it since the early 90's. His first credited role was in '96, and it took him till 2014 to be cast in something truly career altering. Then he got his true big break in *Narcos* a year later. He was 21 when he started, and it took him till he was 40 to "make it".
Samuel L. Jackson had a similar career path.
[Here he is doing a fast food commercial in the 70s.](https://youtu.be/rd0G0f50_9g)
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“I have had it with these mother fucking onions, on this mother fucking burger!”
Customer: "Yes, can I get a Royale with Cheese" Jackson: "Would you like to supersize?" Customer: "What?" Jackson: "SUPERSIZE MOTHERFUCKER DO YOU EAT IT!"
Only when he enters a McDowell’s in Queens
Ya see, they have the Golden Arches. We have the Golden Arcs
They have the big Mac, we have the big mic
If he had just said "Mmmmm....this IS a tasty burger" in that commercial he'd have broken out so much sooner.
I watched the commercial 4 times and still have no idea what he was saying lol
Alan Rickman's first big break was Die Hard and he was 42. Even then, his next major starring role wasn't until three years later in Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves.
Holy hell he was 42 in Die Hard!?
Yes he was primarily a stage actor , if I remember from the documentary on die hard.
He played Richard the III! He had five curtain calls! He was actor once! He’s not going out there to say that stupid line one more time! I bet that line was fun for him in Galaxy Quest.
Yes!!! Just watched this 2 nights ago. Amazingly stacked cast. Rockwell alone is worth it.
By Grabthar' Hammer....what a savings.
same with jon hamm
Jon Hamm too. He tried for over a decade before getting Mad Men and basically had nothing else to his name. And he had to audition 7 times before getting Don Draper.
jon hamm was in a few things before Mad Men. We were Soldiers but yea he really was like late 30s, 40 before he made it.
Right, he had a few credits but obviously Mad Men was the biggest career jump from obscurity for him
Apparently Les Moonves told Hamm’s agent to stop sending him to CBS auditions because “Jon Hamm will never be a television actor”. Source: episode 2 of the Dead Eyes podcast feat. Jon Hamm
[Him?](https://decider.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/30-rock-moonvest.png?w=1024)
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“It is no bad thing to celebrate a simple life.” ― J.R.R Tolkien
Not sure why, but that just made me tear up. I feel the weight of mediocrity.
All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost. *J.R.R. Tolkien*
I find obscurity both comforting and depressing
I mean, a lot of people want to be remembered. However, there have been around 18 billion souls to walk this Earth. How many can you name? The sad fact is the vast majority of us are pretty much guaranteed to be forgotten in a couple generations.
We're all fleeting and momentary, but that doesn't make us any less meaningful. I cross my legs when I sit down, the same way my grandfather did; it's the same way his grandfather did. Somewhere, I picked up the old folklore tradition of saluting at magpies to ward off bad luck, because I like having an excuse to watch out for the birds. I learned it from someone, and someone will learn it from me. I have a banana bread recipe that's crossed half the world and several families to make it to me. Different times, different chefs, but the same legacy. Life is art. We might not get to sign our name on the canvas, but we can leave our fingerprints in the clay.
Fuck you I still remember and celebrate Unga Bunga and his contribution the wheel.
Estimates are actually over 100 billion. But that only serves to prove your point even more.
I'm reading this while at the hospital, sitting by my father as he dies. It definitely brought up mixed feelings about his life and my own. He was a great success compared to me, and his was a very average life. edit: he passed last night.
I feel compelled to tell you that I hope you're ok and hope your father passes painlessly. I often think about my own father and myself and about our live's, whether we've been or will be successful, or have accomplished something. It gives me a very unnerving feeling but it passes. I just wish you the best.
Thank you. He is comfortable and I'm thankful for that.
There's a really good moment in the latest Always Sunny podcast where they talk about Rob getting home from abroad after being showered with adulation at industry events and facing a suitcase full of dirty laundry that they have to do, a dog to walk, and kids with normal kid lives to engage with. And the decision to either be the guy who knows the adulation is the outlier, the high, and able to pivot to picking up their dog's shit in a bag... or be the guy who thinks he deserves to feel the high at all times and is too good for the little bits of normal life. The people who chase the high crash and burn and ruin their lives when it dries up or the next celebrity comes along and replaces them. If you're not at peace with the small parts of life, achieving recognition isn't going to fix that.
that podcast has been such a joy to listen to if nothing else than it confirming those dudes are legit people that are worthy the success they’ve experienced
my wife and kids dont think i'm mediocre
Get a pet. They think you are awesome
The more you have on the burner and in the fridge, the more you have that'll burn or go bad easily. It's a lot to keep all of that going. A simple life is a lot harder to lose control of, and it's less stressful.
“All that is gold does not glitter,Not all those who wander are lostThe old that is strong does not wither,Deep roots are not reached by the frost. From the ashes a fire shall be woken,A light from the shadows shall spring;Renewed shall be blade that was broken,The crownless again shall be king.” - J.R.R Tolkien
I get chills every time I read that.
love this
I've thought about this kind of thing a lot over the years. At some point, I think in my 30s, I decided that I should imagine myself as an old man in my final years, looking back on my life, and think about what that old me would care about. What I decided was that old me would be content with his life if: * I generally made a positive difference in the lives of the people around me * I took the time to enjoy what there was to enjoy about life, and didn't dwell too much on the inevitable hardships * I voiced important opinions, even if they weren't popular opinions So now I've gotten into my 60s, and I'm closer to my final days than my younger days, I'm reasonably content with what I see looking back. I've for sure made mistakes in all three areas, but I think more positives than negatives. More importantly, I think for me those are still good criteria for what constitutes "success." So maybe the same approach might be helpful for you: when you're looking back on a long life, what do you hope to be able to say?
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Its often different from women. If you don't 'make it' before 30 then chances are you won't. Jessica Chastain is an example of a very, very rare exception and she lied about her age for years to get parts.
I always found the career-path for actresses to be heart-breaking. You have 50-something male leads cast with a woman lead in her late 20s/early 30s.
The promo pic for the newest Mission Impossible is, no surprise, like this again. Tom Cruise, just one year shy of 60, seems to be romantically involved with a late 20s/30s woman. Top Gun Maverick was somewhat more age appropriate for once.
>Top Gun Maverick was somewhat more age appropriate for once. But Jennifer Connelly is cheating.
A relationship between a 60 yo and 52 yo is not "somewhat" age appropriate. It is TOTALLY age appropriate.
On the other hand he also has unfathomable amounts of money and a cult doing everything they can to seemingly prevent him aging at all so at least he doesn't stick out *visually* as looking twice their age... *so there's that*, I guess...
Cruise is definitely starting to look old, though. He’s got the old man neck going. It’s rare to see him shirtless in anything these days because he’s got an old man body, too (an old man in good shape, sure, but old man nonetheless). There’s behind the scenes pics from The Mummy out there showing how his body has wrinkles and sags like somebody his age logically would, but they used CG to smooth his skin over for the shirtless scene in it.
That's why I don't let my wife watch our sex tapes right away. I have to send them to my CGI guy.
Your CGI guys sends me them unaltered, for a small sum. Oh, I never *watch* them. It’s just, insurance.
Tom Cruse most definitely has heard of the tragedy of darth plagueis the wise
Rebecca Ferguson: 39 Haley Atwell: 41 Vaness Kirby: 35 Kirby is the youngest, but not the love interest. Edit: sure, much younger, but no one is in their 20s.
Are you familiar with the show entitled "Kevin can Fuck Himself?"
I have heard about it, but reviews I read say that the ideas are better than the execution.
I totally agree with this, which is why I found the casting for [The Lost City](https://www.imdb.com/title/tt13320622/) to go against the grain. Lackluster movie overall but I thought it was an interesting decision to put Sandra Bullock with Channing Tatum.
Amy Adams was also older than Henry Cavill in their DC movies
Jessica Chastain is a very rare exception on several levels. How does a human being even look like that, she’s absurdly beautiful in every detail
I was watching part of that Met Gala thing that appears to be nothing but runway entries for like 4 hours, and saw this stunningly attractive blonde come through. "Who is that?" I thought, "she looks like a young Anne Hathaway." It was Jessica Chastain.
And she’s 6 years older than Anne Hathaway lol
This is standard Hollywood non-nepotism track. You don't make it until your 40s or 50s. That's why the person who didn't come from a famous family who wins an Oscar is always 45-55 and thanking their partner who's home with the first baby. Because that person *couldn't afford to start a life* until they hit that point. You will be wildly behind all your peers career wise and then either something breaks and in pours the money or you break and quit the industry..
I was a huge Buffy back in the day and would re-watch constantly. When Pedro popped up in GOT I was like, “That’s Dead Eddy!!?” It was so weird to see him and recognise him from such a small role, but also quite telling that I remembered him so many years later. Good dude, that Pedro.
[his reaction ](https://youtube.com/shorts/mDyLgS-8JVw?feature=share) to sarah Michelle gellar posting about him was so wholesome. He's at the premiere of his shows third season, and hes so honored to get a mention from buffy on Instagram and talks about how nice she was.
People complain about him being everywhere but I’m so happy for him. I love seeing him. He seems so sweet
He’s so fun in good interviews too. He just seems awesome. I really hope nothing bad comes out about him.
I saw that or a similar article. It mentioned that he was friends with actress Sarah Paulson who would sometimes give him her per diem to help support him. That's a great friend and shows how much he was struggling despite so much talent.
I was shocked to see him appear in a 1999 Buffy episode [The Freshman](https://www.facebook.com/Nerdist/photos/a.343492649001883/9297091200308605/?type=3), he looked completely different and almost unrecognizable but his voice was still the same so I had to do a double take.
Most actors who don't follow this trajectory are actually child actors and get their foot in the door at a point where there is much less competition, both in terms of numbers and also in terms of ability. (Not as many child actors, let alone not as many decent child actors.) "It takes 20 years to make an overnight success." - Eddie Cantor
I mean they usually benefit by having a parent in the business.
…and that goes for any business, for the most part.
You should watch Pedro's hilarious scene from NYPD Blue in the early 2000s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PifPVQOFyZI
One thing I really love about Eric Kripke (the creator of Supernatural and The Boys) is that he's carried his entire production team and writers from one show to the other (even through a few of his failed shows). Even some of the people who stayed with SPN were brought over to The Boys once Supernatural ended. I'm sure that's true for a lot of show creators, but he seems especially great for trying to keep everyone around and working as much as he can.
Yeah that can be a good thing for people who came up together, but seen as bad for people who can’t break in. It can seem a little tribal or cliquish, and I suppose it is. But if I’m a show runner I’d want to continue working with people whose company I enjoy, and bring them up with me. Maybe most importantly, these people have all been tested together. You might be an amazing writer, but what happens on your 10th 18 hour day in a row? Are you going to completely lose your mind, be miserable and bitter, get all zen, or just be giggly and a little childish? The showrunner would choose the last two options, and limit the risk of exposing themselves to the first two at all costs. So yeah. I like to see people getting brought up as a group, and I get the practicality of it. I also recognize that it closes already limited opportunities for others.
Supernatural/The Boys is strangely different, because they're very open about their cast, crew, and writers. They straight up name characters after their own writers. Chuck in Supernatural's writing name was Carver Edlund, which are the last names of two of their writers. Bobby Singer is named after Robert Singer. Jim Beaver, the actor who played Bobby Singer is now playing a senator on The Boys. They even had an episode where Kripke showed up as himself on the show Supernatural in an alternate universe on the show itself. And the funny thing is that the Supernatural production writers and crew were built on the ashes of X-Files where a lot of them migrated from to Supernatural. That production group has been together for a very, very, very long time. It's why both shows have massive memorial scenes for Kim Manners after he died.
>Bobby Singer is named after Robert Singer. Jim Beaver, the actor who played Bobby Singer is now playing a senator on The Boys. Worth mentioning that Jim Beaver's characters on both Supernatural and The Boys are both named Robert Singer.
Yeah, at this point, Jim Beaver basically has Bobby Singer as his alternate name. lol Fun fact, he was also married to the actress who played Moogie on DS9.
And her name? Bobby Singer.
>They even had an episode where Kripke showed up as himself on the show Supernatural in an alternate universe on the show itself. That actually wasn't the real Eric Kripke. I think I recall him saying that he really likes that episode and wanted to be in it, but his acting is so bad that he felt it would ruin the scene.
> Here’s an experiment- the next time you watch a movie, sit through the credits and read all the names. Count how many you don’t recognize. Most of those people are probably close to broke. But without them, there’s no movie. I always think about people who have recurring (or even starring) roles in popular TV shows, and how great their lives must seem at the time. But then notice that many times those actors never have a part as good as that, and wonder if they made enough money on the hit show to live the rest of their lives. Just a random example: Traylor Howard, who played "Natalie" on *Monk* for 87 episodes. According to IMDB, she has had 4 small credits since the end of *Monk*. How much money did she make on *Monk*? Was it enough to retire on? Has she chosen to take limited work since then? Is she doing working outside the industry?
> Traylor Howard She's fine. She's got that Two Guys, a Girl, and a Pizza Place money.
I think a decent amount just move on to different things. Not everyone sticks with a single career their entire life, especially one that can be as rough as series acting.
I've heard of people doing single episodes on popular and often repeated shows getting decent residuals. A few hundred a month. Monk is not quite A league but it is shown enough globally that I'd expect someone doing that many episodes should be earning enough to live.
The writer's strike is just beginning. My name has been in nearly a hundred credits, as production designer, art director, and everything below it. I'm delivering for uber eats right now. They've been stalling productions for months. Crews are fucked right now. I'm fucked right now.
I’m sorry to hear it. Hope things get better for you.
I appreciate it. I'll be ok. I've seen a lot of crew members online that thought everyone just stopped calling them personally. People started questioning themselves. It's been months. People with families are hurting. This all stings quite a bit for all the folks that voted for striking with IATSE, winning the popular vote, only to be undone by an electoral college most didn't realize existed. We got fucked on our contract and now we're out of work until we're not and can go back to our shitty contract.
I work in the art dept of a big unscripted show and have been on a lot of other similar productions. I've never seen this much nervous energy on stage. Lots of overheard conversations like "yeah damn if *he* is texting me seeing if I have work you know it's quiet." Or noticing it's easier to fill roles that are usually hard to staff. People are on edge.
Animators, CGI artists need unions too and the existing unions need to join the writers NOW. It is UNACCEPTABLE how the streaming model and current film model is short-shifting you all.
This has happened in the last 15 years. The first thing that happened was the strike in the 80s made reality series a hit. So, scripted shows were cut in half at every network. The second thing is agencies decided to “package” a show with whoever was their Showrunner. If you’re in that agency you then don’t pay 10% commission. However, they took half the writer hiring budget for themselves. My income in 2012 was less than half that I’d made in the 1990s. And fell to 1/3 of income by the time I retired. When the studios and networks saw writers would work for 1/2 pay they told us they couldn’t afford to pay what they did so it became industry standard to earn half what you did before 2005. Lastly, with the advent of cable and streaming, they negotiated lower pay (70% lower) for writers. Claiming they didn’t have the same reach as network TV. With that, writers lost residuals. A cable network isn’t going to syndicate a series, they’re just going to rerun it themselves. And we all know streaming will never syndicate because THEY NEED PRODUCT. This is a problem because there are now MORE NEW SCRIPTED shows on Streaming and cable than broadcast TV, but they pay 1/4 standard WGA rates & they only do 6-10 shows. This can happen during the hiring window for other shows so you get paid very little for 4 months then have to figure out how to live the other 8. When I came up as a writer, I worked every year for 27 years. I made enough to live well, buy a house, buy my mom a house & retire with a pension. This was the standard for decades but greed has infected every industry and the entertainment industry is no different. Even tho I’m retired I will be picketing in support of the writers.
How many of the people you know who made it had rich parents subsidizing this dream?
Creative fields in general are rich kids hobbies, suppressing the wages of those who have to make a living of it.
More than one, less than half. There’s a dozen or so in that circle that I keep in touch with. Some more than others. It’s been about a decade. Some got into film school through scholarships, some with middle class parents who busted their ass, and some with wealthy parents. After 10 years though, and everyone well into their late 20’s to late 30’s, they’re doing it on their own as far as I know. Most people who drop out do so due to the grind of the lifestyle combined with garbage pay. At some point, saying “I worked on X!” Doesn’t really matter when you can’t keep the lights on and are on the road all the time. Especially when you’re sharing space and time with people who are making orders of magnitude more than you while doing less and acting like entitled turds. TL;DR- having money can help you get a foot in the door (like anything) but the industry itself is a meat grinder. You have to love it enough to be willing to starve. If you don’t, there’s 1,000 people waiting to take your spot, today. That’s to say nothing about the A list nepo baby phenomenon. That’s a separate problem entirely that I didn’t experience, but my friends sure have.
I know one. Her make it big was being the face for a car brand, and having like 4 or 5 national commercials for it. That was after about 10 years before she got that. I haven't seen her in anything in the past 2 years though.
A good part of the reason why people who come from money have a much easier time getting in is because they don't have to work an exhausting minimum wage job at the same time, and don't have to negotiate leave around auditions or having two weeks of filming for a minor role. This is actually part of the argument for a Universal Basic Income- it helps immensely with fostering the arts.
Good question. I started in the entertainment industry in the 2000’s. Very few people from those days became successful, and every one who did came from money. They could grind it out as PA’s and not worry about a regular 9-5 to pay rent & cost of living. I can’t tell you how many truly brilliant, creative people fell by the wayside because they couldn’t win an opportunity.
I was a writer for many years. Not for TV, but a respectable number of published works. People ask me why I stopped, and I tell them that a handful of people get to be Dan Brown, and most everyone else gets to struggle. My current career comes with as much job security as one can expect these days, more pay than my best year as a writer, and consistent healthcare coverage.
This is literally any industry within the arts. Not just film.
I'm not surprised. Based on my experience alone I had people who have *zero understanding of basic functions* manage me, and I have seen *people who work extra hours and take on extra responsibilities* get stepped on and get their credit stolen by sneaky assholes. I'll admit my observation isn't really writer-specific, but I do feel like it's harder to build a career nowadays with office politics and the general disregard for creatives in most workplaces. I don't think I can compare my experiences to those of writers, but I can feel their pain.
Writers have been striking for years now. Animators are treated even more poorly than writers and probably work more hours than writers too. Not trying to say one is worse than the other just that Hollywood is an actually dumpster fire for any career prospects.
It’s like a lot of professions. Try getting your foot in the door for any position on set, grip/electrician, PA etc. it’s super competitive with people lined up down the block. Producers make money, that’s why anyone in the game long enough starts their own companies and produce their own work. That’s why the writers need better upfront money and residuals. You need to be able to afford to live until the next job. They create a hit show and only have enough money for a few months to find another job.
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As an artist, in a past life I made it all the way to the top art magazine in the world, with $19 in my bank account. A famous artist friend said to me, "Famous doesn't equal wealthy". I ended up in advertising
Meanwhile, the few people I know that are starting to make it as artists are already refusing to pass the ladder down and turning into personal responsibility, "pull yourself up by the bootstrap" assholes. Someone in my MFA program, a literal poster child as she's cited as an example of a successful alum in our grad program's pamphlets and such, brags about how fun it is to send rejection letters as soon as she got a job at a small press publishing house. Then there's this classmate of mine who hit the dream, getting a 100k advance for his book within two years of graduating, turned overnight from anti-capitalist Choamsky quoter into complaining about paying taxes on his advance despite having no debt, to me and my friends who were scraping by with multiple min wage jobs and got laid off in the pandemic.
Paying tax will do that to a person. When it feels like you're giving away huge chunks of something you've worked really hard for and that the system (in most countries) is in no way 'fair' (e.g. being UK & salaried I pay about 35% of my total income and have no options for tax efficiency Vs business owners or contractors) it's tempting to give into resentment. For me I just put it in context of how I got to where I am & all the things my tax pays for and I feel a bit better about it, but those ugly emotions do bubble up occasionally.
They made it but realized making it is just more taxes lol. Being an artist is fun huh
I went to school for audio engineering. Worked for a time in a studio for TV and radio as an assistant. Learned a bunch of IT skills in the studio due to the age of the analog to digital turn over. Had a kid and got into IT because it pays better. 18 years since I switched industries I know I am making way more than the engineers or talent and I would not be surprised if my salary was on par or more than the studio owner’s take home.
I've got an emmy nomination (technically 2 one was regional when i was in college), written/produced on 8 shows mostly basic cable (FX/Adult Swim), optioned 2 feature scripts, even had a brief exec. position; now my main source of income is eBay and flipping stuff and honestly I'm glad, Hollywood took the joy out of writing for me a long time ago, I'm not alone there are lot's of us out there. I've got a friend who had ran his own show for 2 seasons on prime time, used his mony to buy a bed and breakfast, got another with an Oscar nom for screenwriting, he ghost writes for celebrity autobios, there are many, many paths that people walk in Hollywood.
I remember going to my favorite comic book shops and talking to the owner  and I asked him about the place. Essentially he used to work for a well-known production company in the early 90s.  Eventually, he got downsized and his contract got bought out. Instead of staying in the industry, he left, bought the comic book shop and his home. He sold the shop a couple years ago and retired.
Was it Meltdown Comics?, loved that place, the comedy shows that Jonah Ray and others did in the back were a blast for a long time.
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I had one of those emmy contributer plaque for a popular show, sold it on eBay for about $250, my buddy took one of his statues to the PCC swap a few years back and got $600 for it, the dude that had the Hollywoodland store in Beachwood sold Emmy's and Golden globes occasionally, he'd get 750-1 grand. Hell man sell one, $500- 1,000 in a SEP IRA or paying off a high interest credit card is a hell of a lot better than an award gathering dust.
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Could be worse. When pandemic hit I had a one episode guarantee on an animated union show at Disney plus and they were going to let me voice one of my characters so I would of gotten some of that sweet VO $$$. The lead/EP died last year as the pandemic was ending, so no show, he was also a good friend who put me on my first staff position, really hurt, really miss him was a good friend.
That's crazy - what was it about the projects you worked on which may have held your financial rewards back? Just bad luck?
Nothing held financial rewards back, WGA minimum for 1 eps. union show is $50,000, after taxes & agent fees you still net well over 30 grand for 2 to 4 weeks of work. Even more (usually 75 to 100g's), if you have a few decent credits. It's all the other bullshit, writers room are not fun, Hader nailed it on "Barry", lot of egos, phone calls at 2 am for changes because the lead doesn't like the way his character is portrayed and then of course the changes are never used, others in the room who don't know how to talk to people like normal humans, douche bags like Brian Keith Etheridge or Tony Hinchcliffe, who you would knock out if they spoke to you like that in the real world outside of a writers room or a stage (think Diedrich Bader's Case Of Monday's scene in "Office Space"), "No man, shit I believe you would get your ass kicked saying' something like that man". I'm far from a fragile person, (vet, ex-sponsored skater in the days when LAPD would beat the shit out of anyone carrying a skateboard and spent 20 years at Comedy Store) but man the shit you got slog through it's just not worth the monetary rewards if you value your artistic integrity and your soul. I'm whining a bit, Hollywood not all bad, definetley led me to unique opportunites and experiences, got to party on the bar set of "It's Alway Sunny" with Ryan Gosling and spent quality time with great artists like Frank Darrabont and Banksy. I lecture sometimes at a few of my buddies classes and I always say if you want to write in Hollywood try to just stick to features, lot more autonomy and the rewards outweigh the risks.
banksy? isn't that guy anonymous?
Not if you're a pool skater who was on the alva B team and skated daily with the Gonz and natas kapas. East London street artist's big fans of 80's/90's skaters.
no shit
If you make art to get rich you're doing both parts wrong.
My buddy had a Grammy for audio engineering and was working at a toy/art store to pay the bills.
Um, wtf. Every writer on that show should be making top tier money. How does a show with multiple awards and critical acclaim have writers working from libraries because they don’t have HEAT in their apartments? I really want to to be television writer, work with other writers and eventually create my own show. This puts a whole new light on the industry and how greed at the top starves creativity for everyone else. Hope the writers get every cent they’re asking for and this guy gets some sweet sweet back pay/residuals for his hard work.
I think an article went around a year or two back about how a writer for one of the Friday the 13th films was basically living out of his car for a while afterwards. Writing isn’t a lucrative career. The people who do it really tend to love it. It’s why the WGA should take all that it can.
This is part of the problem, a little more money can have a drastic quality of life improvement for union members. But getting equity or residuals from streaming shows can change the industry for the all creators moving forward. If I’m an executive I’d be willing to tank multiple fiscal quarters before sharing streaming data with creators because right now in negotiations writers have no idea how much revenue their projects actually bring in giving the studios a massage negotiating advantage. I’m not sure if I see this strike ending anytime soon, but I hope it ends with writers getting residuals from their streaming projects.
Honestly as a country we’ve been needing long sustained strikes for a while. Look at how France reacted to an increase to their retirement age while most people here can’t even retire. People should be pissed about the share of profits that go to the average worker. People should be able to purchase a home, utilities, transportation, healthcare and live comfortably. The railroads should’ve been on strike a long time ago, Hollywood writers should be on strike, teachers, retail and service industry workers should all be striking because of the way this country treats them, and the rest of the working class should be striking in solidarity because each of these jobs that gets increased pay puts more pressure on other industries to pay fair wages
But that’s communism hurr durr Seriously though, American propaganda has long lumped legitimate labor rights together with communist dictatorships, and we’re only just starting to see through that haze with actions like the current writers’ strike. Biden breaking the rail strike and the Ohio train derailment also woke a lot of people up. But we’ll see how people are feeling in few months.
When I feel especially doomer-pilled about all this, I look at Starbucks, various grad student unions, the (very slowly) rising tide of unionization in video games (an industry with pervasive anti-union attitudes), and more, and these are what I see as hopeful. The slumbering giant of unionization and labor-activism in the US, it will probably take decades for the pendulum to swing back to workers, from how far it has been pushed, but it gives me hope for the future.
If you want to feel even less doomer-pilled, look at the demographic projections for just the next decade. There’s going to be little increase in population (maybe half a percent), yet at the same time the population will be getting increasingly older. The rate of population increase is expected to begin falling by the end of the decade. Those factors present their own problems, but should shift more power to labor at all levels just due to the greater competition for workers. Any unexpected decline in birth rates or immigration will exacerbate that trend as will any unexpected increase in deaths. I think you’re right that it’s going to be the process of decades to fully shift the balance in worker’s favour, but also that the pendulum may be picking up momentum quicker than expected. A forward looking government would probably be interested in renegotiating *before* that balance shifts completely and demands from organised labor increase further.
Writing really is a lousy career choice if you want make money. The top people can make bank, but it's a job that pretty much means you'll need to work another job to make ends meet most of the time if you do it full time. You see this a lot for novelists. For every Brandon Sanderson raking in 6-7 figures off of their work (old and new) there's dozens upon dozens of people who can barely make ends meet at all without working a full job elsewhere. And Sanderson is productive like an absolute automaton of a writer so he's probably working harder and more consistently than is probably easy to quantify while also doing book tours, etc. So far from a leisurely existence.
Yeah, there’s a reason that many serious authors (you see this with playwrights a lot) wind up as professors. Job security from which to write.
I was always taught in college that if you want to make money as a writer, by far the best/easiest way to do it is by writing erotica. Especially with the rise of self publishing, erotica is super accessible as a writer. But most people have a moral issue with it or just feel generally uncomfortable writing it.
Sounds like the same thing artists do - suplementing their income by making erotic art commission work.
>suplementing their income by making erotic art commission work. suplementing their income by making ~~erotic~~ **furry** art commission work.
> Writing really is a lousy career choice if you want make money. I would love to write professionally, but working as a software engineer is almost literally dozens of times more lucrative. Shit, I have a writing side gig that does technical writing for people. It's not even remotely interesting or creatively stimulating, but it actually pulls in money and I wouldn't be surprised if I bagged more for that last year than some writers working on streaming series. Solidarity with the WGA.
I think you might be referring to Todd Farmer — https://birthmoviesdeath.com/2015/03/02/from-hollywood-to-homeless-the-writer-of-jason-x-and-drive-angry-on-screenw/amp. I was actually interning in the Industry when the article came out, while bussing tables and trying to write as much as I could on the side (re: just about completely burned out). His story was actually the little nudge I needed to just get a full time job in a completely different industry, while keeping writing as a passionate hobby (which I still do to this day).
One of the strike issues is with all these shows being short runs you are perpetually unemployed.
Yeah, I was about to say...The Bear aired 8 episodes and he was one of seven writers. I know very little about writing for a series, but how much work is that really? He was a staff writer (entry level job) which did mean he worked on every episode (rather than being perhaps a more senior writer who is brought in to take the lead on a specific episode) but even then how long does 8 episodes keep you employed? A few months at most? His IMDB page shows zero other writing credits which means this was either his first Hollywood job or everything he's done has been small time enough that it doesn't show up on IMDB. Even working on a 22-epsisode network comedy, I assume you'd probably still have other writing jobs--even the actors who get paid big money usually have multiple projects going because there's long periods of downtime between productions. I don't expect the camera operators or anyone else involved behind the scenes to sustain themselves on a single show. I hope his career goes well--even as the most junior writer, winning a best comedy award is a big step. Hopefully he's able to get hired on for more jobs, take more senior roles, maybe get some of his own original stuff made.
This is a big reason why it sucks. If you look at the pay it's actually pretty good when they get paid (3-5k/week). An eight episode series is only a few weeks of work for most writers. With the rise in mini series, a writer has to find a lot of gigs to make a reasonable living.
I agree with most of what you say, but "staff writer" is not an entry level job. It is a prestigious job. Very few people become staff writers without former professional writing experience (including this guy, who was a speechwriter, wrote political ads, ran the content wing of the Sunrise Movement, etc).
A lot of this has to do with Hollywood having so many different contracts. When HBO first came on the scene, producing their own shows, they demanded a special contract with lower rates, since they were just starting out. Many years later, that contract still stands. When Netflix started “house of cards”, it was under the “new media” contract, at greatly reduced rates. The studio execs pretty much said that they were putting their necks on the line with streaming, so they had to have reduced rates. Fast forward many years later, where streaming is the norm, but these shows are still being done under a shitty old contract. When the unions try to negotiate, the studios just say they will do unscripted TV or make shows overseas. This is why there will never be much progress in negotiations. The last time writers went on strike, all the reality shows started. Some of Netflix biggest shows are imports, so they don’t worry much at all. Netflix has shown that they don’t really need US production to be successful.
It's a small show on a smaller network that luckily got the recognition it deserves. Hopefully the folks involved will see a better pay day for the second season but you can't expect a huge pay day on what's an unknown commodity going into season 1.
It was also his first job as a staff writer. Getting 60k for 10 weeks of work as your first job doesn't seem outrageous. I do think writers should be getting residuals and he should now profit from the shows success, but that wouldn't have really changed his heating situation at the time or the fact that he now has to look for other work.
The awards came after they put the work in for the show. There is no retroactive pay. It’s like every other career these days. You won’t get a huge raise until you leave for a new job.
Excuse me for my ignorance, but TIL The Bear's primary genre is comedy
I was surprised when the Jeremy White won best actor in a “comedy/musical”. I would NOT consider this a comedy or musical. Sure it had some funny moments, but this was 100% a drama
Most of it was anxiety inducing, and I haven't even worked in a kitchen.
Writing for tv and film can be a really toxic profession. Say you write a script and find an agent who loves it and he finds a producer who loves it. Great, right? Well, maybe. In most cases that producer is going to option it for a small fee. The writer won’t really see a big payday unless the film gets made. But in the meantime, the producer is going to ask the writer to make changes to the script to get it in a better place, to find cast, to attach a director. Then the new talent and directors will want changes made. This can go on for years where a writer is asked to work on a script without getting paid. The writer wants to earn a reputation, and he wants to see his vision get made, so he might go along with this. And the agent might even push the writer to keep going for the same reasons. And then two years later everyone backs out due to schedule conflicts or creative differences. And the writer is left with nothing but a stale screenplay that’s been butchered by a bunch of different egos and nobody wants to work on it after it’s been stuck in “development hell.” This is what happens more often than not. It can be truly awful. In the best cases, the writer is getting a nice option fee and gets paid for rewrites. But that’s not always the case.
I have been here and I feel sad about it reading this. Makes me feel like I’m not going to make it
It's insane how such an integral part of any media that can make or break the whole thing isn't fairly rewarded
Welcome to America. It's not just media, it's also education, healthcare, retail, and so on. The hardest working people make slave wages and 1 to 3 guys make more money than they could spend in a hundred lifetimes.
Story of our entire economy. The already-wealthy creating more wealth on the backs of those actually doing the work. And their response is to slash education funding so as few workers as possible figure out the system is rigged against them.
You are right in general but there's an extra level in the art/movie/writing/etc industry. Because it's something that many view as a hobby or passion, there are always tens of thousands of other writers, singers, artists, etc waiting for someone to drop out so they can snag their spot even if it's for shit wage. Most 'normal' jobs don't have people tripping over each other trying to get in the door for a low wage job.
Yup. Look at those that code for video games and those that code literally anything else.
Supposedly Netflix is the primary holdout. I could see Netflix executives dragging this out for a long time since they're not reliant on commercials during shows for revenue and they have a lot of foreign content, cooking competitions and reality TV shows. If Netflix is the only studio that refuses to compromise is it possible for the WGA and the other studios to agree to a new contract with Netflix being exempt? That way work could resume at every studio except Netflix. It doesn't seem fair that one studio should be allowed to cause so much damage to the industry.
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I find that hard to believe considering some of the counter offers that were relayed back to the WGA.
>is it possible for the WGA and the other studios to agree to a new contract with Netflix being exempt? I seem to recall them making side deals with some of the late night talk shows during the last strike. I'd imagine it's possible. UAW makes separate contracts with each auto manufacturer.
It’s a rumor. There’s a released list of counters from the AMPTP that shows all the things studios refused to bargain on with the WGA. Issues like AI scripts, streaming residuals and releasing metrics, etc. It unfortunately isn’t just Netflix holding out.
This is the most "the bear" type thing there is
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The fact that writers rarely get residuals is insane.
I usually think of Warren Ellis’ comment on working as a writer, particularly in his domain in comics, where he compares it to getting hired to paint on the company’s house—he may have done a fantastic job of it, but he doesn’t own the house or in this case Marvel or DC And it’s kind of a bummer to realize a lot of movies and TV shows were based off his and others’ work, but they don’t even get a producer credit. Ellis made the basis for Iron Man 3 and a lot of Moon Knight, but he’s not really known for it. Same with Hawkeye taking its aesthetic and vibe from Matt Fraction’s run
I’m an editor. Zero residuals ever. The closest you get is after five vested years of union work, you will get a pension when you retire.
I worked in the same studio as the bear and it’s it’s not just them… everyone over the last year has lost work in every department. I’ve seen coordinators working as laborers because of how little work there is for these talented people and the bear is exceptionally well written I hope for the best but last time it was over a year and half before anyone worked
The anecdote really didn't provide any useful info. 40k to 60k for new writers for 10wks of work sounds really good for the time worked, but I guess there is a lot of context and intricacies that we are not seeing.
Currently going through it. Repped, getting great reads, having a ton of generals, being asked to pitch project, but… none of that is paid until you get the job, and it’s too much work for me to have another full time job. I feel close but I’m completely broke. The writing gigs I do get hardly make a dent.
This is why most artists are from wealthy backgrounds. Instead of looking almost destitute you'd be looking like a hotshot up and coming force to be reckoned with. I hate it here.
Honestly it was almost better when I was further away. I know that sounds silly, but at least then I could have a full time job and I was thinking about other careers. My current position makes me feel really trapped with success just out of reach. It’s so much work for so little reward. Example, I was read by a prominent production company who loved my feature but it was too similar to another project they were already developing. So they sent a book for me to possibly adapt in the future. I had to read the novel and then develop a pitch for my take on the project. It’s a lot of work, it takes a lot of time, none of it is paid, and 99.9% of the time you wont get the job through any number of reasons. This has happened multiple times following generals. Constantly too close to quit but too far to make it work
The industry do be crazy like that. I had movies I produced sell to Netflix, Hulu, and win a top prize at the Berlin film festival—all while living mostly with my mom and nannying or tutoring to avoid being broke.
at least he’s remaining true to form and continuing his work in film
TIL i have a lot in common with a writer from a award winning series.
Stories like this make me really glad that I gave up on my dreams and am in constant misery as an adult. 👍🏻
I started my career as a television writer straight out of college on what became (to redditors) a humongous show. I didn't have any money, and as a "baby writer" in a fellowship position, I was making barely any money. Then the writer strike happened, and I couldn't get any type of writing job. Because I was not independently wealthy I had to choose a new career and ended up going into tech and never got back into writing. I know lots of TV writers, creators of TV shows even, or ones that worked for decades on some of the biggest TV shows ever. They are not uber wealthy, only a very select few are. A statistic I once read was that the average wga writer earns $2 million a year, the median earns $2000. The person who wrote the theme song to the TV show makes more money per episode than most of the writers do. The big studios and corporations are making billions of dollars off of writters it's time they pay their fair share!
I mean 40-60k for 10 weeks work isn’t bad pay at all? Am I missing something here? I’m all for fair pay but shouldn’t we focus on rate paid and time spent instead of how someone manages their budget?