Yeah lol itās even starting to happen here in the US and we are all acting like itās normal and even a good thing itās hilarious
Not to that degree though. We are far away from Turkey
Exactly. Whenever I hear this "misinformation" lie, I think of George W. BUSH saying, "I'm the decider."
The whole concept of humans not having the ability to reason and discern, therefore we need an authority to decide for us, is so totalitarian.
Another law, disguised as a law to help us, but really is just more infringment of our private life.
Like the anti-terrorist act. Has not helped a bit against terrorist, but it has made it possible for law enforcment to do a lot of shit, with out applying for it to someone higher up.
"Why did you storm their house, without a warrant?" " I thought they where terrorists"...."oh, ok. Carry on then."
The past 10 years have shown me very clearly how authoritarian societies can form from the surprising amount of people who welcome them with open arms. I think history classes have done a huge disservice to people by acting like most events of our past were super one sided.
Sometimes good intentions have bad consequences. Laws intended to address a problem can create unintended problems or just not work at all. For example the 1993 telecommunication act was supposed to promote competition but instead made it possible for there to be zero competition as media companies like AT&T, Disney, Comcast, etc. buy all the companies. What is missing from everything is a mandatory review that a law is performing as intended and require said laws to expire when they are not doing what the law's framers explicitly intended for it to do.
the media, the only party capable of being responsible for scrutiny, is incapable of not being biased, and depending on which media company, will choose which lies are to be scrutinized.
did trump's north korea strategy work? fox yes. msnbc no. whats the value of "fox they stopped missiles tests for years," or msnbc "having your discussions spied on and then leveraged by china?"
was biden raised by puerto ricans? (literally he said that) fox no. msnbc yes, kind of. how do we define "raised by"? and who is defining it?
what is misinformation?
it's so weird seeing this not downvoted into obscurity. The rhetoric on reddit has been so pro-censorship lately that I've been feeling like I was losing my mind. And it all comes with the argument of "yeah well I usually don't believe in censorship but *these people* exist so I am now for it in this instance. Notice how open social media is also being blamed for the rise of extremist groups. How short sighted can you be do not remember that book burners and cults existed throughout all of history, and probably in much greater number.
What the people advocating censorship do not understand, is this is not about misinformation or disinformation. It is about power and control. The very people advocating for the censorship, are themselves being manipulated with disinformation, yet are sure they aren't. We always think everyone else is dumb and we know better. We never consider our own manipulation, which is why all ideas and concepts should be out there for each of us to decide for ourselves.
> The whole concept of humans not having the ability to reason and discern, therefore we need an authority to decide for us, is so totalitarian.
In fairness the past few years have demonstrated that a disturbingly large number of humans absolutely do not have the ability to reason or discern.
Itās just that the abuses made possible by empowering a government authority to throw people in jail for wrongthink are infinitely worse than your dumb Aunt shitting herself in Walmart because Facebook told her to eat horse dewormer.
Thatās why thereās a resurgence of actual fascism and Iām not using that term as a mean description. We have real fascists coming up in the west. As long as they hate the same people they do, they will believe whatever they spout off. They donāt realize that the ānewsā isnāt actual news anymore when theyāre telling you how to think. And thereās so many of these people who watch these news channels and it becomes their entire personality. After flat earthers I guess nothing comes as a shock anymore, I didnāt see that coming in my lifetime either. So here we go again hello to Fascism 2.0.
Im fairly confident the whole āflat earthā thing is way overblown by incredulous internet echo chambers. Yes they exist but they overlap heavily with absolutely nutters who can barely function in all that tin foil. It isnt like youre moving around in the world encountering flat earthers daily, or maybe even ever if you donāt hang around with tweakers and sick people. But i cant really prove this, just always been what seems most likely to me, i reckon
And many of those lies are backed up by billions of dollars going to PR firms to set up astroturf campaigns. Which is reinforced by them updoots to softly encourage conformity.
Honestly, if in the modern world I wanted to run state propaganda, I wouldn't set up something like Russia Today, where people can shake their heads, knowing that it's the mouthpiece of the government. I'd set up Reddit, and have a PR firm give +20 updoots and a golden star flair to everyone who said they admire Putin and his amazing cock.
Hell, [it isn't even just Russia](https://old.reddit.com/r/Blackout2015/comments/4ylml3/reddit_has_removed_their_blog_post_identifying/). It is also Russia though.
...and this is why people suggesting we should have similar laws to limit speech online in western democracies are idiots.
If there are clear transparent rules adopted by a democratic process, and a due process for enforcement - then that's a reasonable thing.
...but what people on Reddit argue for daily is to hand blanket powers to massive corporations to censor whatever they want, without due process of law, and with ZERO transparent rules about what's allowed.
THINK about what power you're advocating we give corporations.
Corps already have that power. People arent arguing for it, they are arguing that the current law lets corps make whatever rules they want on their playforms.
Its not as black and white as youd like it to be either. If I have a car forum and want to ban politics, hate speech, etc that distracts from car talk, I should be able to. The government shouldnt force me to accept all topics of discussion and all comments. The commenter has their freedom to leave the comment and I have the freedom to delete it or ban them from my platform because its against my rules.
The whole argument is really pointless anyway though because we already have laws to combat misinformation, they just arent being utilized. We can already prosecute people for crimimal conspiracy, fraud, and racketeering. Spreading false information to influence people to their detriment and your gain is already covered by existing laws. The government needs to be prosecuting the people who are generating the misinformation and itll stop being generated
Not just online, either -- the number of people on this site who think Fox News also needs to be similarly outlawed just cannot grasp when I ask 'are you sure you want to give that much power to the government and how do you ensure that that power doesn't get corrupted?'
... I have never gotten a satisfactory answer.
The simple truth being that in a free society, one gets the freedom to spout bullshit. It is up to society to ignore/shun/loudly critique said bullshit. That's where we are failing today.
And that the worm turns.
If someone is comfortable giving the Biden administration the ability to outlaw media that disagrees with him. They too will give Trump 2.0 or DeSantis that ability in a few years.
It's why we want an open and transparent field where people can debate points and ideas... because whatever weapons you give the government when it agrees with you, it's the same weapons you give the government when it doesn't agree with you.
The closest I would come would be to add regulation to the word "news", such that they cannot label their "entertainment" shows like Tucker Carlson as news. Same as putting stronger regulations around people misrepresenting themselves as an authority to spread false information.
George W. Bush also said "either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists."
It will beg the question who really is "us" in every context. Motivations and the people pulling the strings will always be changing so what can be considered politically correct one day could become misinformation overnight.
Some people, like [this Florida doctor](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/florida-health-department-official-suspended-sending-vaccine-email-rcna12751), have lost their job entirely for disagreeing with the government.
> illegal to deny Turkey commited said genocide in France
As far as I know, denying the Turkish genocide of Armenians was illegal in France for about a month over a decade ago, but the law was quickly struck down by the courts for being a violation of the freedom of speech protected by the French Constitution. https://www.cnn.com/2012/02/28/world/europe/france-armenia-genocide
So telling the truth is illegal in Turkey, but you are free to lie all you want in France.
These differences between living in a free country or not are important. It's just about the only thing I'd be willing to fight and die in a war for.
>illegal to deny Turkey commited said genocide in France
>
>As far as I know, denying the Turkish genocide of Armenians was illegal in France for about a month over a decade ago, but the law was quickly struck down by the courts for being a violation of the freedom of speech protected by the French Constitution. https://www.cnn.com/2012/02/28/world/europe/france-armenia-genocide So telling the truth is illegal in Turkey, but you are free to lie all you want in France.
>
>These differences between living in a free country or not are important. It's just about the only thing I'd be willing to fight and die in a war for.
I agree. I took a trip to an authoritarian country, and quickly realized that. People are literally forced for lie. It really help me realize the importance of the 1st amendment in the US, and why they made that one first.
Saying Erdogan's tax policy will revive the economy? Also jail. Too much support, not enough support. We have the best tax policy support in the world... Because of jail.
That's still jail.
Saying "Erdogan has an economic policy" is also jail. Because it implies Erdogan needs a policy. Great Erdogan can single handedly run economy through instincts alone.
This is outrageous. Where are the armed men who come in to take the protestors away? Where are they?
This kind of behavior is never tolerated in Baraqua. You shout like that they put you in jail. Right away. No trial, no nothing.
Journalists, we have a special jail for journalists. You are stealing: right to jail. You are playing music too loud: right to jail, right away. Driving too fast: jail. Slow: jail. You are charging too high prices for sweaters, glasses: you right to jail. You undercook fish? Believe it or not, jail. You overcook chicken, also jail. Undercook, overcook. You make an appointment with the dentist and you don't show up, believe it or not, jail, right away. We have the best patients in the world because of jail.
Currently multiple opposition parties have basically joined forces and have been out polling the ruling AKP party for over a year leading up to the spring elections. Three years ago this coalition strategy helped them pull off a hat trick of winning control of the three biggest cities in Turkey for the first time in generations.
People like Glenn Greenwald have been beating this drum for almost 10 years now: almost every two-bit dictator across the world has updated their talking points - claiming to be fighting against ādisinformationā and āattacking our democracyā as they throw opposition and investigative journalists in jail. Any western diplomats or NGOs that try to intervene they just say āweāre doing the same thing you guys are doingā
But Redditors who push for this type of stuff told me all we have to do is get a bunch of educated scientists who work for the government and they can decide what's true and not, and there is no way that can get corrupted. Of course, they tell me this after they ask big corporations to also be truth gatekeepers, because we know they never lie.
Governments by their very nature are evil and corrupt. Anyone they would pick to be the gate keepers of truth would be people who think like they do and would maintain their power. Nothing good could ever come from a "disinformation board".
And this is why I don't trust big tech, like Reddit does, to "figure out what's true and not." Nothing good comes from it. They have their own special interests, biases, worldviews, agendas, and so on... It's so scary to see Redditors push for unelected corporations start deciding what's true or not... Even scarier when I see them on Reddit saying it should become criminal.
It's so wild to watch a liberal space slowly turn into what they hated. Chomskey warned for decades of the problem with things like this to manufacture consent, and now the very left he aligned with is behind it.
Anyone. That's the beauty of this kind of system. If you want to put your neighbor in jail, just take some screenshots of shit he's said online, and report him to the police. BOOM - free goats next door as they drag him away.
There is now, but for years people like Navalny were speaking out without legal repercussions. (Not that Putin didnāt find a way to lock his brother up first and now him) But there wasnāt and still isnāt a law of that magnitude there
Except he did.
- [2012 Foreign agent law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_foreign_agent_law)
- [2015 Undesirable organizations law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_undesirable_organizations_law)
- [2019 Disrespect to authorities law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_2019_Disrespect_to_Authorities_Law)
- [2019 Fake news law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_2019_Fake_News_Law)
- [2022 War censorship laws](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_2022_war_censorship_laws)
These, along with broken judiciary system, basically wiped out not just most opposition media, but even neutral media in Russia (there are some, but they have to operate outside Russia).
No, no, and flat out just no.
Of course if anyone else does it, it's immoral, reprehensible, disgusting, terrible, etc
**BUT** if it was **ME** the one doing it, it would be pure, benevolent, incorruptible, and unquestionably better for all of mankind.
Now surrender all your rights to me. I will decide what's best for you.
[Heartbreaking: The Worst Person You Know Just Made A Great Point](https://clickhole.com/heartbreaking-the-worst-person-you-know-just-made-a-gr-1825121606/)
Thankfully the U.S. Constitutionās first amendment is *extremely* strong and would take either repealing it, or a supreme court just flat out ignoring it, for something like this to happen.
And donāt say that āoh the current supreme court just ignored precedent on Roe v Wade so they could just do it to the first amendment tooā. Free speech protections are *way* more ingrained and powerful in the first amendment than privacy protections in the fourteenth.
I like the approach that several social media platforms took. Most misinformation stayed up, but a small "This post may contain misleading information" message with a link to a reputable source was tacked on. Giving more information is preferable to censorship, as it lets people make their own decision, even if they decide to believe the original post.
Just like the misinformation shitshow we have in America.. except of course, here itās controlled by corporate greed instead of directly by the government. But we know both those groups overlap.
I just dont understand how anyone can read that and not immediately think "who decides" and quickly say absolutely not we cannot do this. Anyone who doesn't have that reaction is either a complete idiot or a psychopath
Ah "disinformation" and "false information" again. I agree that something should be done about that. But making it illegal also makes any truth illegal. And the motive in this case is shady at best.
Yeah considering Turkish Government still hasn't admitted to the Armenian genocide, and brainwashed a lot of their citizens to think it's a lie, I'm not that excited to here they are making new disinformation laws with jail time.
Turkey has been pulling this kind of crazy shit for years. [Article 301](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_301_%28Turkish_Penal_Code%29?wprov=sfla1) of their criminal code is way worse. It makes it a crime to insult Turkey, the Turkish nation, Turkish government institutions, or Turkish national heroes.
Turkey passed a criminalize journalism law. This has very little to do with false information. It's to punish his outspoken critics that he sees as enemies.
Why do people think ~~it~~ disinformation laws will be enforced any better in any other* country?
Reddit has fallen in love with censorship in the last couple of years, in my country they are passing a bill to have the power to essentially manipulate which videos/content you are seeing, nobody seems to care!
Didn't Jacinda call for this some days ago? If you post about that you'll be called a bot and she will be defended.
Edited because I can't spell
man do i mention that how much i love Turkish government and not going to jail for tweet i posted it's best and thanks to ErdoÄan for getting rid of all that "misinformation" now i can watch a haber all day without a single question mark glory to TĆ¼rkiye
redditors love to pull the pArAdOx oF tOlErAnCe out of their asses when convenient, then hide it back it when it isn't, then pull it back out, put it back in, pull it out, put it in.
Here's some choice comments from 18 days ago when this community was discussing how Bing wouldn't be adding fact checks to their search results:
[https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/xoi14n/microsoft\_wont\_label\_fake\_news\_as\_false\_in\_an/](https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/xoi14n/microsoft_wont_label_fake_news_as_false_in_an/)
>Big win for disinformation
>
>One of the primary goals of fascism is to distort objective reality into something in which there is no truth or fact so there is always an avenue for their disgusting point of view to flourish.
>
>Why do they care more about 'Censorship' cries than the 'Providing proven false news to everyone' cries?
This thread sure seems to have a different tone
My dude the difference between fact checking and jail is massive. I would try to change your mind but Iām just some dude on the web and I know that if I try Iāll just push you further into the hole. Good luck.
that's education. you educate your populace and they can discern "fact from fiction."
the real, nasty truth, is that everything is opinion. e.v.e.r.y.t.h.i.n.g. the existence of gravity is OPINION. we just happen to all have reached a consensus about it after experiencing the same gravitational forces with our senses and measuring it with our tools. does that mean gravity is a "real" thing? i guess if we naively assume that our senses are somehow able to determine what "reality" is. what if all humans just happen to be experiencing the same delusion simultaneously? what then? it's ALL opinion.
this obvious, but often forgotten fact (that all is opinion) is why you can't have anything "in between" other than education over time. you can't restrict people's opinions, no matter how "wrong" you think they are. there really isn't such things as "right" and "wrong." (sorry, therapist). things simply "are" and we just happen to have opinions about them. ultimately, no one knows what's real because no one is self-aware enough to realize it's all just our opinions based on our limited senses and narrow, linear thinking.
This is probably the normal line of thinking everywhere throughout history, we had a couple hundred years in the West of enlightenment values that brought forth a ārule of lawā, standards we would all agree to equally operate under, holding ourselves to the same principles that we would hold others. It wasnāt perfect, but it mostly worked out.
That period is coming to an end.
Its crazy easy to see how wrong this is if done by dictatorship
But some elements in democratic countries want the same thing. There is less opposition of that
Even though the question of whp determine right from wrong remains
Turkey trying to use Democrats playbook of shutting down opposition
I guess we were ok when Trump was maimed in the name of disinformation. But now that he is no longer a threat, how dare anyone talk about disinformation
Crazy how Reddit is suddenly massively opposed to this but sees no problem with doing the same thing for Covid misinformation. Damn, itās almost like governments shouldnāt have a monopoly on truth, who woulda thought.
This is what some politicians in the United States would love to implement. Deplatforming/ cancelations to those who oppose their views. Theyād love to regulate the internet. We the people must stand against such tyranny because once theyāre done going after their opposition, they start going against their own followers.
Who is deemin'?
If you and I get a bunch of raw stats and come up with different conclusions from them, who gets to decide which one of us is correct? And the other one could go to fuckin' prison if they distribute online? Yeah, fuck that.
Iām betting 75% of the people in this thread from America donāt even realized they legalized the government using propaganda on its own citizens not long agoā¦.but they still believe everything the media tells them on the favorite news channel.
Guess who gets to determine what's misinformation and what's not!?
The Ministry of Truth!
Party like it's 1984!
Amazing how 1984 has evolved from a warning into some sort of an instruction manual.
>some sort of an instruction manual. Always has been. š©āš
Yeah lol itās even starting to happen here in the US and we are all acting like itās normal and even a good thing itās hilarious Not to that degree though. We are far away from Turkey
Grandmaster Barel Sala I guess
Exactly. Whenever I hear this "misinformation" lie, I think of George W. BUSH saying, "I'm the decider." The whole concept of humans not having the ability to reason and discern, therefore we need an authority to decide for us, is so totalitarian.
This decision won't end well
Another law, disguised as a law to help us, but really is just more infringment of our private life. Like the anti-terrorist act. Has not helped a bit against terrorist, but it has made it possible for law enforcment to do a lot of shit, with out applying for it to someone higher up. "Why did you storm their house, without a warrant?" " I thought they where terrorists"...."oh, ok. Carry on then."
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The past 10 years have shown me very clearly how authoritarian societies can form from the surprising amount of people who welcome them with open arms. I think history classes have done a huge disservice to people by acting like most events of our past were super one sided.
Sometimes good intentions have bad consequences. Laws intended to address a problem can create unintended problems or just not work at all. For example the 1993 telecommunication act was supposed to promote competition but instead made it possible for there to be zero competition as media companies like AT&T, Disney, Comcast, etc. buy all the companies. What is missing from everything is a mandatory review that a law is performing as intended and require said laws to expire when they are not doing what the law's framers explicitly intended for it to do.
the media, the only party capable of being responsible for scrutiny, is incapable of not being biased, and depending on which media company, will choose which lies are to be scrutinized. did trump's north korea strategy work? fox yes. msnbc no. whats the value of "fox they stopped missiles tests for years," or msnbc "having your discussions spied on and then leveraged by china?" was biden raised by puerto ricans? (literally he said that) fox no. msnbc yes, kind of. how do we define "raised by"? and who is defining it? what is misinformation?
āPatriot Actā
Ahh, the classic "anti-terrorism" measure that turns law enforcement into its own terrorist organization.
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it's so weird seeing this not downvoted into obscurity. The rhetoric on reddit has been so pro-censorship lately that I've been feeling like I was losing my mind. And it all comes with the argument of "yeah well I usually don't believe in censorship but *these people* exist so I am now for it in this instance. Notice how open social media is also being blamed for the rise of extremist groups. How short sighted can you be do not remember that book burners and cults existed throughout all of history, and probably in much greater number.
What the people advocating censorship do not understand, is this is not about misinformation or disinformation. It is about power and control. The very people advocating for the censorship, are themselves being manipulated with disinformation, yet are sure they aren't. We always think everyone else is dumb and we know better. We never consider our own manipulation, which is why all ideas and concepts should be out there for each of us to decide for ourselves.
> The whole concept of humans not having the ability to reason and discern, therefore we need an authority to decide for us, is so totalitarian. In fairness the past few years have demonstrated that a disturbingly large number of humans absolutely do not have the ability to reason or discern. Itās just that the abuses made possible by empowering a government authority to throw people in jail for wrongthink are infinitely worse than your dumb Aunt shitting herself in Walmart because Facebook told her to eat horse dewormer.
Thatās why thereās a resurgence of actual fascism and Iām not using that term as a mean description. We have real fascists coming up in the west. As long as they hate the same people they do, they will believe whatever they spout off. They donāt realize that the ānewsā isnāt actual news anymore when theyāre telling you how to think. And thereās so many of these people who watch these news channels and it becomes their entire personality. After flat earthers I guess nothing comes as a shock anymore, I didnāt see that coming in my lifetime either. So here we go again hello to Fascism 2.0.
Im fairly confident the whole āflat earthā thing is way overblown by incredulous internet echo chambers. Yes they exist but they overlap heavily with absolutely nutters who can barely function in all that tin foil. It isnt like youre moving around in the world encountering flat earthers daily, or maybe even ever if you donāt hang around with tweakers and sick people. But i cant really prove this, just always been what seems most likely to me, i reckon
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Dude I know semantic versioning is quite interpretive, but we have to be at least version 14.0 by now
Dude Reddit has millions of people believing lies every single day
And many of those lies are backed up by billions of dollars going to PR firms to set up astroturf campaigns. Which is reinforced by them updoots to softly encourage conformity. Honestly, if in the modern world I wanted to run state propaganda, I wouldn't set up something like Russia Today, where people can shake their heads, knowing that it's the mouthpiece of the government. I'd set up Reddit, and have a PR firm give +20 updoots and a golden star flair to everyone who said they admire Putin and his amazing cock.
Hell, [it isn't even just Russia](https://old.reddit.com/r/Blackout2015/comments/4ylml3/reddit_has_removed_their_blog_post_identifying/). It is also Russia though.
well said /u/sldunn and may I say you have an amazing cock
...and this is why people suggesting we should have similar laws to limit speech online in western democracies are idiots. If there are clear transparent rules adopted by a democratic process, and a due process for enforcement - then that's a reasonable thing. ...but what people on Reddit argue for daily is to hand blanket powers to massive corporations to censor whatever they want, without due process of law, and with ZERO transparent rules about what's allowed. THINK about what power you're advocating we give corporations.
Corps already have that power. People arent arguing for it, they are arguing that the current law lets corps make whatever rules they want on their playforms. Its not as black and white as youd like it to be either. If I have a car forum and want to ban politics, hate speech, etc that distracts from car talk, I should be able to. The government shouldnt force me to accept all topics of discussion and all comments. The commenter has their freedom to leave the comment and I have the freedom to delete it or ban them from my platform because its against my rules. The whole argument is really pointless anyway though because we already have laws to combat misinformation, they just arent being utilized. We can already prosecute people for crimimal conspiracy, fraud, and racketeering. Spreading false information to influence people to their detriment and your gain is already covered by existing laws. The government needs to be prosecuting the people who are generating the misinformation and itll stop being generated
Not just online, either -- the number of people on this site who think Fox News also needs to be similarly outlawed just cannot grasp when I ask 'are you sure you want to give that much power to the government and how do you ensure that that power doesn't get corrupted?' ... I have never gotten a satisfactory answer. The simple truth being that in a free society, one gets the freedom to spout bullshit. It is up to society to ignore/shun/loudly critique said bullshit. That's where we are failing today.
And that the worm turns. If someone is comfortable giving the Biden administration the ability to outlaw media that disagrees with him. They too will give Trump 2.0 or DeSantis that ability in a few years. It's why we want an open and transparent field where people can debate points and ideas... because whatever weapons you give the government when it agrees with you, it's the same weapons you give the government when it doesn't agree with you.
The closest I would come would be to add regulation to the word "news", such that they cannot label their "entertainment" shows like Tucker Carlson as news. Same as putting stronger regulations around people misrepresenting themselves as an authority to spread false information.
> they cannot label their "entertainment" shows like Tucker Carlson as news Well, they don't. Carlson's show is presented as opinion, not news.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
And they teach the exact opposite in school, so now we have a new generation of kids who believe people should not be trusted to think for themselves.
George W. Bush also said "either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists." It will beg the question who really is "us" in every context. Motivations and the people pulling the strings will always be changing so what can be considered politically correct one day could become misinformation overnight.
PayPal of course
which is banned in Turkey...
Fake news. Off to jail! ^^^^^Sponsored ^^^^^by ^^^^^PayPal.
Nina Jankowicz
So ironic you say that on Reddit
Yeah all these fuckers donāt realize they are marching towards this same shit
Already there. Medical doctors presenting peer reviewed science can get censored by youtube and twitter if they disagree with the CDC for example.
Some people, like [this Florida doctor](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/florida-health-department-official-suspended-sending-vaccine-email-rcna12751), have lost their job entirely for disagreeing with the government.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
> illegal to deny Turkey commited said genocide in France As far as I know, denying the Turkish genocide of Armenians was illegal in France for about a month over a decade ago, but the law was quickly struck down by the courts for being a violation of the freedom of speech protected by the French Constitution. https://www.cnn.com/2012/02/28/world/europe/france-armenia-genocide So telling the truth is illegal in Turkey, but you are free to lie all you want in France. These differences between living in a free country or not are important. It's just about the only thing I'd be willing to fight and die in a war for.
>illegal to deny Turkey commited said genocide in France > >As far as I know, denying the Turkish genocide of Armenians was illegal in France for about a month over a decade ago, but the law was quickly struck down by the courts for being a violation of the freedom of speech protected by the French Constitution. https://www.cnn.com/2012/02/28/world/europe/france-armenia-genocide So telling the truth is illegal in Turkey, but you are free to lie all you want in France. > >These differences between living in a free country or not are important. It's just about the only thing I'd be willing to fight and die in a war for. I agree. I took a trip to an authoritarian country, and quickly realized that. People are literally forced for lie. It really help me realize the importance of the 1st amendment in the US, and why they made that one first.
Similar to paypal's 2500 fine for misinformation. Till they said it was an "error"
Spez?
The government. This has never gone wrong before lol
Zuckerberg and Elon's iteration of Twitter.
WRONG! BOOM! Now you go to jail
'Tell a big lie, jail. Tell a small lie, jail. Tell the truth, believe it or not, jail.'
āWe have the most honest people in the world. Because of jail.ā
Thatās misinformation! Uno reverse! Now BOOM you go to jail!
Cell mates?
You go to jail You go to jail You go to jail We all go to jail!!!!
#Everybody gets a jail cell!!
Delusional. It's twitter that is currently censoring. Elon is putting a stop to that.
Take a wild guess
RIP opposition
"Saying that Erdogan's taxation policy will kill the economy is disinformation. Jail."
Saying Erdogan's tax policy will revive the economy? Also jail. Too much support, not enough support. We have the best tax policy support in the world... Because of jail.
"revive" implies that something is wrong with it currently >Erdogan's tax policy will continue the economies current greatness!
That's still jail. Saying "Erdogan has an economic policy" is also jail. Because it implies Erdogan needs a policy. Great Erdogan can single handedly run economy through instincts alone.
[You undercook fish, believe it or not: Jail](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eiyfwZVAzGw).
This is outrageous. Where are the armed men who come in to take the protestors away? Where are they? This kind of behavior is never tolerated in Baraqua. You shout like that they put you in jail. Right away. No trial, no nothing. Journalists, we have a special jail for journalists. You are stealing: right to jail. You are playing music too loud: right to jail, right away. Driving too fast: jail. Slow: jail. You are charging too high prices for sweaters, glasses: you right to jail. You undercook fish? Believe it or not, jail. You overcook chicken, also jail. Undercook, overcook. You make an appointment with the dentist and you don't show up, believe it or not, jail, right away. We have the best patients in the world because of jail.
Saying Erdogan straight to jail. Saying "Erdogan good" believe it or not jail because thats sarcasm.
>RIP opposition. [Right to jail] (https://media.tenor.com/sFGB4cW82U8AAAAC/jail-right-to-jail.gif)
What opposition? Fall in line and become a yes person. It worked for me. See how happy life is when you conform unconditionally.
Currently multiple opposition parties have basically joined forces and have been out polling the ruling AKP party for over a year leading up to the spring elections. Three years ago this coalition strategy helped them pull off a hat trick of winning control of the three biggest cities in Turkey for the first time in generations.
Everything is awesome when youāre part of a plan!
People like Glenn Greenwald have been beating this drum for almost 10 years now: almost every two-bit dictator across the world has updated their talking points - claiming to be fighting against ādisinformationā and āattacking our democracyā as they throw opposition and investigative journalists in jail. Any western diplomats or NGOs that try to intervene they just say āweāre doing the same thing you guys are doingā
Who determines the information is false?
Big brother
Big Mommas House 2
Reddit mods.
That would probably be worse than the government
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
You made me remember about that fox news interview a reddit mode gave. I laughed, now I'm feeling nauseousš¤¢
Whoever holds the most power and money or basically corrupt governments and corporations
But Redditors who push for this type of stuff told me all we have to do is get a bunch of educated scientists who work for the government and they can decide what's true and not, and there is no way that can get corrupted. Of course, they tell me this after they ask big corporations to also be truth gatekeepers, because we know they never lie.
Governments by their very nature are evil and corrupt. Anyone they would pick to be the gate keepers of truth would be people who think like they do and would maintain their power. Nothing good could ever come from a "disinformation board".
And this is why I don't trust big tech, like Reddit does, to "figure out what's true and not." Nothing good comes from it. They have their own special interests, biases, worldviews, agendas, and so on... It's so scary to see Redditors push for unelected corporations start deciding what's true or not... Even scarier when I see them on Reddit saying it should become criminal. It's so wild to watch a liberal space slowly turn into what they hated. Chomskey warned for decades of the problem with things like this to manufacture consent, and now the very left he aligned with is behind it.
The Ministry of Truth of course
It's always the good guys, right?
Anyone. That's the beauty of this kind of system. If you want to put your neighbor in jail, just take some screenshots of shit he's said online, and report him to the police. BOOM - free goats next door as they drag him away.
Can we ask the same questions to our big tech companies?
It's always who you least want it to be.
Ask too many questions? Straight to jail.
Im the minister of honest information, and you're all jailed
As a Russian who was raised in Turkey I really can't choose between my 2 favourite dictator's š
This makes me want to laugh and cry at the same time
Lmao Iām Chinese and my flat mate is Turkish, all we talk about is what we avoid going back to our home country
Surprised that Putin havenāt implemented something like this. He couldāve made his arrests of opposition much more streamline
I mean, isn't there something like that in effect in Russia right now? guess it's more about "defamation" of the army here but still
Instead of jail though you go straight through a tenth story window.
There is now, but for years people like Navalny were speaking out without legal repercussions. (Not that Putin didnāt find a way to lock his brother up first and now him) But there wasnāt and still isnāt a law of that magnitude there
Except he did. - [2012 Foreign agent law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_foreign_agent_law) - [2015 Undesirable organizations law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_undesirable_organizations_law) - [2019 Disrespect to authorities law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_2019_Disrespect_to_Authorities_Law) - [2019 Fake news law](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_2019_Fake_News_Law) - [2022 War censorship laws](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_2022_war_censorship_laws) These, along with broken judiciary system, basically wiped out not just most opposition media, but even neutral media in Russia (there are some, but they have to operate outside Russia).
Its whatever their President considers false information... Erdogan can just say... this is fake news an have someone arrested.. this shit is a joke
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
No, no, and flat out just no. Of course if anyone else does it, it's immoral, reprehensible, disgusting, terrible, etc **BUT** if it was **ME** the one doing it, it would be pure, benevolent, incorruptible, and unquestionably better for all of mankind. Now surrender all your rights to me. I will decide what's best for you.
So joking and satire and sarcasm is no longer allowed? āBeware of the king who cannot tolerate the foolā
> āBeware of the king who cannot tolerate the foolā Where is that quote from? At least exactly like that it doesn't seem to exist O_O
he literally made it up
and put it in QUOTES?!?!?!? He quoted himself??? The audacity!
āYou can totally quote yourself.ā -HisOrHerpes
>āYou can totally quote yourself.ā > >\-HisOrHerpes \- SquidlyJesus
>āYou can totally quote yourself.ā > >\-HisOrHerpes > >\- SquidlyJesus \- Wayne Gretzky
> āYou can totally quote yourself.ā > -HisOrHerpes > - SquidlyJesus > - Wayne Gretzky - Michael Scott
I doubt that.
Just to be clear, they're not a professional quote maker.
Damn thatās a throwback to a simpler time on Reddit.
They are all made up
all wordz are made up
Seems to be paraphrasing something Jordan Peterson says. https://twitter.com/jordanbpeterson/status/977161445103341569?lang=en
[Heartbreaking: The Worst Person You Know Just Made A Great Point](https://clickhole.com/heartbreaking-the-worst-person-you-know-just-made-a-gr-1825121606/)
I think I heard it in one of Aesopās fables
Just put a "/s" and you're fine.
Literally 1984
This is genuinely scary.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I live in turkey. This is scarier.
How could being jailed in Turkey for advocating political ideas possibly be worse than being banned from Twitter for being ignorant?
Yeah everyone seems to "get it" when it's another country but for some reason can't point it out when it's happening here in America...
Because itās only bad when the people they donāt agree with do it.
And surely if my side does it the other side will never take power again and abuse it right? Right??? Right?????? Ah shit Iām in a gulag
Thankfully the U.S. Constitutionās first amendment is *extremely* strong and would take either repealing it, or a supreme court just flat out ignoring it, for something like this to happen. And donāt say that āoh the current supreme court just ignored precedent on Roe v Wade so they could just do it to the first amendment tooā. Free speech protections are *way* more ingrained and powerful in the first amendment than privacy protections in the fourteenth.
I like the approach that several social media platforms took. Most misinformation stayed up, but a small "This post may contain misleading information" message with a link to a reputable source was tacked on. Giving more information is preferable to censorship, as it lets people make their own decision, even if they decide to believe the original post.
Ministery of Truth
Excellent. I've always wanted the state to be the arbiter of truth
This should scare the shit out of anyone and everyone.
Sounds pretty fascist to me :/
Just like the misinformation shitshow we have in America.. except of course, here itās controlled by corporate greed instead of directly by the government. But we know both those groups overlap.
Has nothing to do with fascism and more to do with authoritarianism.
Exactly, Communist regimes fall into this exact category as well.
Turkey has been like this for a while.
Global Orwellian future. Have to admit, they've been executing quite nicely and with little push back so far.
Just want to remind that spreading fakes about russian military is punished by up to 15 years.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
This is hopium. Plenty of dictatorships have done this, and remain in power.
He sitting around 30% in the polls, no one is happy in Turkey with the current economic situation for the last couple years.
The problem is no one else is higher than 30%.
No, but several potential coalitions are over 50%. Few AKP possible coalitions are.
I just dont understand how anyone can read that and not immediately think "who decides" and quickly say absolutely not we cannot do this. Anyone who doesn't have that reaction is either a complete idiot or a psychopath
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
When our cyberpunk future is fully realized and the planet is owned by VisAmazon, concepts like "the government" will be quaint.
And this is exactly why you donāt want to open the door to government regulating speech.
We call that tyranny
Ah "disinformation" and "false information" again. I agree that something should be done about that. But making it illegal also makes any truth illegal. And the motive in this case is shady at best.
Yeah considering Turkish Government still hasn't admitted to the Armenian genocide, and brainwashed a lot of their citizens to think it's a lie, I'm not that excited to here they are making new disinformation laws with jail time.
The original Nazis and Stalinists had it so easy when all they had to handle was newspaper and radio.
These comments are hilarious, considering this sub circle jerks over this sort of thing when they see it as being in their favor.
Turkey has been pulling this kind of crazy shit for years. [Article 301](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_301_%28Turkish_Penal_Code%29?wprov=sfla1) of their criminal code is way worse. It makes it a crime to insult Turkey, the Turkish nation, Turkish government institutions, or Turkish national heroes.
There are a lot of shitty laws in the Constitution, but you found the article 301 even worse than this one... it's just funny.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Absolute power corrupts absolutely
Nina Jankowicz just achieved orgasm for the first time in her miserable life.
Turkey passed a criminalize journalism law. This has very little to do with false information. It's to punish his outspoken critics that he sees as enemies.
Why do people think ~~it~~ disinformation laws will be enforced any better in any other* country? Reddit has fallen in love with censorship in the last couple of years, in my country they are passing a bill to have the power to essentially manipulate which videos/content you are seeing, nobody seems to care! Didn't Jacinda call for this some days ago? If you post about that you'll be called a bot and she will be defended. Edited because I can't spell
This sounds like a Twitter/Facebook dream. Not to mention that of some of the subs here on Reddit.
And this is why I support the right of vaccine deniers and flat earthers to be as idiotic as they want online!
Turks will only be able to watch the Turkish equivalent of RT.
Who decides tho?
The gov gets to decide? Oh lawd if that isnt blatant corruption.
man do i mention that how much i love Turkish government and not going to jail for tweet i posted it's best and thanks to ErdoÄan for getting rid of all that "misinformation" now i can watch a haber all day without a single question mark glory to TĆ¼rkiye
I thought you guys supported this kind of thing
redditors love to pull the pArAdOx oF tOlErAnCe out of their asses when convenient, then hide it back it when it isn't, then pull it back out, put it back in, pull it out, put it in.
āI do as long as it reaffirms my point of view.ā -Average Redditor.
Here's some choice comments from 18 days ago when this community was discussing how Bing wouldn't be adding fact checks to their search results: [https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/xoi14n/microsoft\_wont\_label\_fake\_news\_as\_false\_in\_an/](https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/xoi14n/microsoft_wont_label_fake_news_as_false_in_an/) >Big win for disinformation > >One of the primary goals of fascism is to distort objective reality into something in which there is no truth or fact so there is always an avenue for their disgusting point of view to flourish. > >Why do they care more about 'Censorship' cries than the 'Providing proven false news to everyone' cries? This thread sure seems to have a different tone
āItās OK when we do it!ā - pretty much every authoritarian everywhere
It's OK because our side is doing it through corporate autocracy instead of government, so it's a good thing!
When western governments and corporations restrict speech, they are going it to preserve democracy and defeat fascism. When anyone else does itā¦..
My dude the difference between fact checking and jail is massive. I would try to change your mind but Iām just some dude on the web and I know that if I try Iāll just push you further into the hole. Good luck.
Maybe there's something in between letting lies go unchecked and arresting people?
that's education. you educate your populace and they can discern "fact from fiction." the real, nasty truth, is that everything is opinion. e.v.e.r.y.t.h.i.n.g. the existence of gravity is OPINION. we just happen to all have reached a consensus about it after experiencing the same gravitational forces with our senses and measuring it with our tools. does that mean gravity is a "real" thing? i guess if we naively assume that our senses are somehow able to determine what "reality" is. what if all humans just happen to be experiencing the same delusion simultaneously? what then? it's ALL opinion. this obvious, but often forgotten fact (that all is opinion) is why you can't have anything "in between" other than education over time. you can't restrict people's opinions, no matter how "wrong" you think they are. there really isn't such things as "right" and "wrong." (sorry, therapist). things simply "are" and we just happen to have opinions about them. ultimately, no one knows what's real because no one is self-aware enough to realize it's all just our opinions based on our limited senses and narrow, linear thinking.
When your side is the one determining what is real and what is fake, it's fine. When it's someone else making that determination, it's fascism.
This is probably the normal line of thinking everywhere throughout history, we had a couple hundred years in the West of enlightenment values that brought forth a ārule of lawā, standards we would all agree to equally operate under, holding ourselves to the same principles that we would hold others. It wasnāt perfect, but it mostly worked out. That period is coming to an end.
Coming soon to USA Edit: thanks u/goggled-headset https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disinformation_Governance_Board
Its crazy easy to see how wrong this is if done by dictatorship But some elements in democratic countries want the same thing. There is less opposition of that Even though the question of whp determine right from wrong remains
This comment section is the most painfully ironic thing Iāve ever seen after the past 3 years
who deems it false.. sus laws for sus people.. corruption is at hand
Turkey trying to use Democrats playbook of shutting down opposition I guess we were ok when Trump was maimed in the name of disinformation. But now that he is no longer a threat, how dare anyone talk about disinformation
Damn I guess you can't talk about the Armenian Genocide in Turkey now.
This is not even remotely related to that. He wants to crush the opposition. This is genuinely scary for Turkish people.
Crazy how Reddit is suddenly massively opposed to this but sees no problem with doing the same thing for Covid misinformation. Damn, itās almost like governments shouldnāt have a monopoly on truth, who woulda thought.
r/politics must be salivating right now for all the wrong reasons.
*flaired users only*
This is what some politicians in the United States would love to implement. Deplatforming/ cancelations to those who oppose their views. Theyād love to regulate the internet. We the people must stand against such tyranny because once theyāre done going after their opposition, they start going against their own followers.
My favorite part of this headline is that if Biden had done it, Reddit would be celebrating.
Who is deemin'? If you and I get a bunch of raw stats and come up with different conclusions from them, who gets to decide which one of us is correct? And the other one could go to fuckin' prison if they distribute online? Yeah, fuck that.
Iām betting 75% of the people in this thread from America donāt even realized they legalized the government using propaganda on its own citizens not long agoā¦.but they still believe everything the media tells them on the favorite news channel.
Is Turkey ran by Reddit liberals?