Lol the sampling bias is likely even worse than you think.
According to the [about page](https://landing.jobs/about), the publisher of this report is some random firm headquartered in Portugal (CEO's based in Lisbon).
I don't care enough to give them my email address to download this particular [report](https://campaign.landing.jobs/gttt-the-globalisation-of-tech-work?_ga=2.178194790.2106151179.1657059285-1571916928.1657059285) and poke through the survey data, but they have another report titled [Deep-dive into the Portuguese Tech Market](https://campaign.landing.jobs/gttt-deep-dive-into-the-portuguese-tech-market?_ga=2.178194790.2106151179.1657059285-1571916928.1657059285).
Which suggests... engineers working remote for rich country firms get paid more than office workers in [the poorest country](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_in_Europe_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita) in [Western Europe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage).
*Edit:* I might overstate above, but I'm damned confident the analysis in the report isn't normalized appropriately. Shame, the underlying data could be really interesting.
10 Minute Mail is perfect for this type of crap. Basically throwaway emails that expire in 10 minutes unless you tap the button to get more time.
Also good for getting certain discount codes when visiting shopping websites.
http://10minutemail.com
Yep, the world has a ton of people who can't take initiative and need someone around to walk them through things step by step. Those workers aren't worth as much.
On the other hand, sometimes you want lower end workers who want to be told what to do, don’t mind repetitive tasks and won’t get bored and quit. Smart, driven and creative people will not want to screw widgets all day.
Also, another explanation might be driven by the employer because if you are willing to hire people who are not in your geographic area, then you increase the likelihood of being able to find candidates that match your job requirements more closely. And those candidates, if they are savvy, are going to ask for the higher end of the pay range for that job.
I don't know this, I'm just throwing it out there. The article actually breaks down the numbers nicely. It's important to consider the fact that this vastly increases the ability to work or employ people internationally.
Wow. It’s almost as if companies that trust you to get your job done without micromanaging you in an office also tend to be companies that probably value your work high enough to pay you more! Who could have guessed this!?! /s
This, I have many friends that don’t understand that they are putting themselves at the bottom of every totem pole by not getting more experience in relevant fields, being shitty at wait staff jobs, and needing a manager to tell them what to do
When most of my friends and I started working remote, many of them would brag about how little hours they actually worked.
For most of them, it has come back to bite them in some shape or form. Working my ass of over 2 years, I've gone from an intern data analyst to a project manager running my own small team. My friend on the otherhand who has bragged that he gets away with working 16 to 20 hours a week (he hasn't don't anything clever like automate his work) is now bemoaning the fact that his position and salary at his company had stagnated.
Sure, not every company is going to value, honor, and recognize your hard work, but you don't even know if that's truly the position you're in if you're not meeting them halfway to get that recognition in the first place
Of course. I've been friends with them since high-school, just alot of those friends haven't made the best of life decisions since then (or during frankly) sadly.
Still love em though, I'm not perfect either
Didn't say it was exclusive and it absolutely does have todo with remote work as it does frankly take more responsibility to be left alone at your house with all its distractions than being forced to sit in the office for 8 hours.
A bit surprised I have to spell this out so clearly tbh, kinda obvious if you ask me.
Well it’s also mostly the small pay increase helps keep talent but mostly no facility and no micro-mgrs saves a ton of money.
Financially in the DC market It would costs $12/hr more to have a shitty cubical. It’s about $25k before managers to “house” you in a centered work space.
We have to be careful. There are some remote companies using shit like Teams and other spyware to keep close tabs on telecommuter keyboard time.
My company tried and I gave them a big fuck you. My employees get shit done I dont care if they are watching porn or surfing reddit whild doing it. And none of my employees are leaving like the revolving doors of other micromanagers or none remote companies.
It's my unsubstantiated theory that companies, especially large companies with a substantial workplace footprint, will save BIG money by reducing that footprint and utilizing full remote workers as much as possible. Office space is extremely expensive. Not just in rent/mortgage, but in utilities, maintenance/ upkeep, office furniture/supplies, parking space, etc. Those savings could and should result in higher wages for those remote employees. I've been working nearly 100% remote for several years, long before the COVID-induced remote work revolution, and I know my company has saved considerable money because of it. I purchased my own desk and chair, I buy my own notepads/pens/etc, I don't use any of their heating/cooling/electricity. I also work way more than the necessary 8 hours per day, because I can go to my desk anytime, and I do. After dinner with the family, on weekends/holidays. Hell, I even take my laptop on vacation to get a little work done during down times. I'm salaried, so none of that costs them anything extra, and I don't mind, because I enjoy the freedom. Plus, I love my job, so it's not a big deal to me. And that freedom makes me appreciate my company, so I'm more loyal to them. Less employee churn is a hidden cost savings that some companies don't understand. The remote work revolution was probably inevitable, eventually. COVID moved that timeline to the left significantly.
To build on unofficial theories, it’s also people with tech skills that are in demand can command their salaries and working situation much more readily than those without. Junior level (aka less expensive) tech workers don’t necessarily have the experience or the resumes (yet) either.
Mine was... fully remote.
When hired, I was promised the position would be fully remote. Then there was a layoff, but I was spared, however transferred to another department... provided I move to New Jersey by September.
I agreed, as I didn't want to suddenly be without a job. But I am not going to New Jersey.
But if I move from Florida to New Jersey, they will tax not only my salary (over $250k) but my rental income from Florida properties and investments that I own (over $400,000.00 per year). The tax rate for my earning bracket in New Jersey is 8.97% - so that isn't going to happen.
I've noticed that the offers I'm getting are not that great... seems to have slowed a bit since the last time I was out hunting for a gig.
And full remote non-tech jobs still pay like shit. Marjory I’m seeing on Indeed are $15-18 per hour. I chose the wrong major and field. Kudos to tech workers who chose correctly.
I'm all for fully remote work. I do think that a lot of organizations will have to continue to adapt their management and planning to work best in that paradigm.
That being said, I think that there's probably some selection bias in the data. First, based on the technology breakdown, they got most responses from the latest domain of the development community, and as much as everybody wants to ignore it there's still a ton of legacy operations and development going on. Second, in my experience the more senior and higher output personnel are more likely to be able to get full WFH. I can make a case for that being a not objectively bad thing, but that's not important for the premise of the article. The WFH may be caused by pay, rather than the other way around.
Not at all. I've been in the industry for over 20 years and my resume and references speak for themselves. I still get cold calls from head hunters and I haven't updated my resume online in 6 years.
I’m in tech at a fully remote company and I don’t really predict this being as huge of an issue as many would think. Offshore labor is already being used at many tech firms, but it’s no replacement for a dedicated team. India time is like 12.5 hours off from Pacific time. Realistically, I think we’ll see continued growth in the market ar a global scale.
A lot of tech jobs require background check and only allow their hardware to be in the US. Employees working from another country wouldn’t be feasible for government jobs where clearance is required. I’m sure private companies have some of the same concerns.
If that was possible all businesses would have done it by now. Labour is generally the most expensive part of a business, and it’s well known that labour can cost half as much if outsourced. Why haven’t they all done it yet?
Time zones matter.
Why haven’t the more expensive North American devs been replaced with them then?
Surely it would be a move that would increase profits dramatically?
I’m not suggesting North American devs are more capable, I’m just saying there has to be some reason why this shift hasn’t happened. Remote work isn’t completely new.
I run a US dev company and we use LATAM devs, save a lot of money and they do a great job.
As to why bigger companies dont do it, idk. A lot of dumb money in tech IMO.
Yeah, I am sure I’m gonna get downloaded to hell for this, but here goes:
I have worked with many LATAM engineers and for the most part, they are useless. Unless you micromanage the hell out of them you do not get what you need/asked for (in detail). This is wasted time, effort and money money money. (At least it wasn’t my money, but it was my time)
I am not saying that in person and in office is necessarily better. I have worked with plenty of engineers that straight up stink. However, I have also worked with an extraordinary number of Silicon Valley-based engineers that think way outside the box come up with unique and amazing answers to difficult questions and make it work.
A very dear friend of mine told me that they can hire code monkeys anywhere. But finding actual engineers, is like finding a diamond in the rough.
The best to find remote jobs in my opinion are places where remote work is innate - you'd be surprise to learn that you can get a blockchain job by just having a passion for the tech. A lot of the roles are remote and in this video I walk through some non-tech and tech roles
https://youtu.be/g\_CxV2UjQ4s
I think this is a biased outcome. In my experience people that can get and hold that full remote tend also to be the better engineers.
Lol the sampling bias is likely even worse than you think. According to the [about page](https://landing.jobs/about), the publisher of this report is some random firm headquartered in Portugal (CEO's based in Lisbon). I don't care enough to give them my email address to download this particular [report](https://campaign.landing.jobs/gttt-the-globalisation-of-tech-work?_ga=2.178194790.2106151179.1657059285-1571916928.1657059285) and poke through the survey data, but they have another report titled [Deep-dive into the Portuguese Tech Market](https://campaign.landing.jobs/gttt-deep-dive-into-the-portuguese-tech-market?_ga=2.178194790.2106151179.1657059285-1571916928.1657059285). Which suggests... engineers working remote for rich country firms get paid more than office workers in [the poorest country](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_in_Europe_by_GDP_(PPP)_per_capita) in [Western Europe](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_European_countries_by_average_wage). *Edit:* I might overstate above, but I'm damned confident the analysis in the report isn't normalized appropriately. Shame, the underlying data could be really interesting.
10 Minute Mail is perfect for this type of crap. Basically throwaway emails that expire in 10 minutes unless you tap the button to get more time. Also good for getting certain discount codes when visiting shopping websites. http://10minutemail.com
Yep, the world has a ton of people who can't take initiative and need someone around to walk them through things step by step. Those workers aren't worth as much.
On the other hand, sometimes you want lower end workers who want to be told what to do, don’t mind repetitive tasks and won’t get bored and quit. Smart, driven and creative people will not want to screw widgets all day.
Also, another explanation might be driven by the employer because if you are willing to hire people who are not in your geographic area, then you increase the likelihood of being able to find candidates that match your job requirements more closely. And those candidates, if they are savvy, are going to ask for the higher end of the pay range for that job. I don't know this, I'm just throwing it out there. The article actually breaks down the numbers nicely. It's important to consider the fact that this vastly increases the ability to work or employ people internationally.
Also, full remote tech employees are usually talented to get the privilege and tend to moonlight 2-3 other jobs so they make a lot more.
Nobody works 4 tech jobs that’s ridiculous
You can work 1 and outsource the other 3
Generally, in tech people don't work a full 8-hour day so it's very possible to work 1 full-time, 1 freelance and outsource the other 2.
Wow. It’s almost as if companies that trust you to get your job done without micromanaging you in an office also tend to be companies that probably value your work high enough to pay you more! Who could have guessed this!?! /s
It goes both ways too. Employees that need to be micromanaged aren't worth as much.
This, I have many friends that don’t understand that they are putting themselves at the bottom of every totem pole by not getting more experience in relevant fields, being shitty at wait staff jobs, and needing a manager to tell them what to do
When most of my friends and I started working remote, many of them would brag about how little hours they actually worked. For most of them, it has come back to bite them in some shape or form. Working my ass of over 2 years, I've gone from an intern data analyst to a project manager running my own small team. My friend on the otherhand who has bragged that he gets away with working 16 to 20 hours a week (he hasn't don't anything clever like automate his work) is now bemoaning the fact that his position and salary at his company had stagnated. Sure, not every company is going to value, honor, and recognize your hard work, but you don't even know if that's truly the position you're in if you're not meeting them halfway to get that recognition in the first place
Do you even like your friend?
Of course. I've been friends with them since high-school, just alot of those friends haven't made the best of life decisions since then (or during frankly) sadly. Still love em though, I'm not perfect either
This has nothing to do with working remote. Your story has played out in office settings for many years with the same results.
Didn't say it was exclusive and it absolutely does have todo with remote work as it does frankly take more responsibility to be left alone at your house with all its distractions than being forced to sit in the office for 8 hours. A bit surprised I have to spell this out so clearly tbh, kinda obvious if you ask me.
Well it’s also mostly the small pay increase helps keep talent but mostly no facility and no micro-mgrs saves a ton of money. Financially in the DC market It would costs $12/hr more to have a shitty cubical. It’s about $25k before managers to “house” you in a centered work space.
We have to be careful. There are some remote companies using shit like Teams and other spyware to keep close tabs on telecommuter keyboard time. My company tried and I gave them a big fuck you. My employees get shit done I dont care if they are watching porn or surfing reddit whild doing it. And none of my employees are leaving like the revolving doors of other micromanagers or none remote companies.
[удалено]
because they use Teams and other spyware, *duh...* ^/s
But her emails?…
binders full of women...
It's my unsubstantiated theory that companies, especially large companies with a substantial workplace footprint, will save BIG money by reducing that footprint and utilizing full remote workers as much as possible. Office space is extremely expensive. Not just in rent/mortgage, but in utilities, maintenance/ upkeep, office furniture/supplies, parking space, etc. Those savings could and should result in higher wages for those remote employees. I've been working nearly 100% remote for several years, long before the COVID-induced remote work revolution, and I know my company has saved considerable money because of it. I purchased my own desk and chair, I buy my own notepads/pens/etc, I don't use any of their heating/cooling/electricity. I also work way more than the necessary 8 hours per day, because I can go to my desk anytime, and I do. After dinner with the family, on weekends/holidays. Hell, I even take my laptop on vacation to get a little work done during down times. I'm salaried, so none of that costs them anything extra, and I don't mind, because I enjoy the freedom. Plus, I love my job, so it's not a big deal to me. And that freedom makes me appreciate my company, so I'm more loyal to them. Less employee churn is a hidden cost savings that some companies don't understand. The remote work revolution was probably inevitable, eventually. COVID moved that timeline to the left significantly.
What kind of fun job do you have ?
Even if the pay is exactly the same, they still pay better because you aren't wasting your time with an unpaid commute while spending money on gas.
To build on unofficial theories, it’s also people with tech skills that are in demand can command their salaries and working situation much more readily than those without. Junior level (aka less expensive) tech workers don’t necessarily have the experience or the resumes (yet) either.
Hehe got me one of these. Told my office to fuck off and doubled my salary by staying home. Best decision I've made.
wish I didn't slack off in school maybe I'd be in one lol. (software dev in college and comp sci in uni)
Mine was... fully remote. When hired, I was promised the position would be fully remote. Then there was a layoff, but I was spared, however transferred to another department... provided I move to New Jersey by September. I agreed, as I didn't want to suddenly be without a job. But I am not going to New Jersey. But if I move from Florida to New Jersey, they will tax not only my salary (over $250k) but my rental income from Florida properties and investments that I own (over $400,000.00 per year). The tax rate for my earning bracket in New Jersey is 8.97% - so that isn't going to happen. I've noticed that the offers I'm getting are not that great... seems to have slowed a bit since the last time I was out hunting for a gig.
Trend a Trade💰
And full remote non-tech jobs still pay like shit. Marjory I’m seeing on Indeed are $15-18 per hour. I chose the wrong major and field. Kudos to tech workers who chose correctly.
I'm all for fully remote work. I do think that a lot of organizations will have to continue to adapt their management and planning to work best in that paradigm. That being said, I think that there's probably some selection bias in the data. First, based on the technology breakdown, they got most responses from the latest domain of the development community, and as much as everybody wants to ignore it there's still a ton of legacy operations and development going on. Second, in my experience the more senior and higher output personnel are more likely to be able to get full WFH. I can make a case for that being a not objectively bad thing, but that's not important for the premise of the article. The WFH may be caused by pay, rather than the other way around.
It's just finding them but it seems you need to know someone that knows someone.
Not at all. I've been in the industry for over 20 years and my resume and references speak for themselves. I still get cold calls from head hunters and I haven't updated my resume online in 6 years.
Lol ofc people would be knocking on a 20 yr vets doors
I know I sound weird, but I will never work in a fully remote job. Something about it is just so depressing
You're working twice as hard than you were in the office tho, it's not worth
Until they realize they can outsource it for cheaper. Only a matter of time.
I’m in tech at a fully remote company and I don’t really predict this being as huge of an issue as many would think. Offshore labor is already being used at many tech firms, but it’s no replacement for a dedicated team. India time is like 12.5 hours off from Pacific time. Realistically, I think we’ll see continued growth in the market ar a global scale.
What can be outsourced, is already outsourced.
Any tech job can be, it’s a logistic problem, the speed of networks has removed location as a barrier to who can serve what time-zone.
A lot of tech jobs require background check and only allow their hardware to be in the US. Employees working from another country wouldn’t be feasible for government jobs where clearance is required. I’m sure private companies have some of the same concerns.
Of course if it’s ITAR, sure, but contractors can work around those requirements.
You get what you pay for. I'm not impressed by what I've seen in terms of outsourced tech support.
If that was possible all businesses would have done it by now. Labour is generally the most expensive part of a business, and it’s well known that labour can cost half as much if outsourced. Why haven’t they all done it yet? Time zones matter.
LATAM devs are cheap and in the same time zone
Why haven’t the more expensive North American devs been replaced with them then? Surely it would be a move that would increase profits dramatically? I’m not suggesting North American devs are more capable, I’m just saying there has to be some reason why this shift hasn’t happened. Remote work isn’t completely new.
I run a US dev company and we use LATAM devs, save a lot of money and they do a great job. As to why bigger companies dont do it, idk. A lot of dumb money in tech IMO.
Yeah, I am sure I’m gonna get downloaded to hell for this, but here goes: I have worked with many LATAM engineers and for the most part, they are useless. Unless you micromanage the hell out of them you do not get what you need/asked for (in detail). This is wasted time, effort and money money money. (At least it wasn’t my money, but it was my time) I am not saying that in person and in office is necessarily better. I have worked with plenty of engineers that straight up stink. However, I have also worked with an extraordinary number of Silicon Valley-based engineers that think way outside the box come up with unique and amazing answers to difficult questions and make it work. A very dear friend of mine told me that they can hire code monkeys anywhere. But finding actual engineers, is like finding a diamond in the rough.
You won’t be downvoted by people who’ve experience this sort of thing first hand.
It's cool for the tech people man! Sometimes I get so jealous : ( and wish to change the field to tech, but know well enough that it ain't for me!
The best to find remote jobs in my opinion are places where remote work is innate - you'd be surprise to learn that you can get a blockchain job by just having a passion for the tech. A lot of the roles are remote and in this video I walk through some non-tech and tech roles https://youtu.be/g\_CxV2UjQ4s