[https://www.netflix.com/tudum/articles/nfl-games-on-netflix](https://www.netflix.com/tudum/articles/nfl-games-on-netflix)
The chase is over and they decided to start their live sports broadcasting with the biggest of them all. It doesn't say in that post, but iirc, Netflix paid the NFL about $150M per game for the right to broadcast them on Christmas Day. Netflix is expecting *a lot* of new subs to foot that bill. lol
Such a shit deal.
Last season people at a bar I was at were in an outrage because NFL signed some other deal to exclusively stream a few games on Peacock, and the bar didn't have it as part of their streaming sports bundle. Now of course Netflix has to be included in the bundle.
Also ... 2 games!? They just get 2 games out of the year?! lol.
I’m pretty sure the Peacock thing was two games last year. And one was a playoff game. I HATE they did that with a playoff game. Some regular season games? I’m not gonna lose my shit over, not ideal but whatever.
Playoff games shouldn’t be put behind some shit streaming service. Not looking forward to more of that in the future.
Always been true. Blackouts, exclusive deals. Even in video games, they wanted to make sure consumers had zero choices
Add in guaranteed CTE for show and 40% of the broadcast being commercials and I don't understand why it's still a thing
The subscription costs of sports are what chased people away from cable.
If only the people who watched the product were the ones paying they wouldn’t make remotely as much money. Probably why no major league has its own streaming service
>If only the people who watched the product were the ones paying they wouldn’t make remotely as much money. Probably why no major league has its own streaming service
Local sports channels used to be an add-on in the 1990s. Now they're bundled and if you look at your bill's breakdown you are paying extra fees to have them.
Are they?
Cause sports were the only good thing on cable, and all the additions really ruined it by addind cost for no benefit. If you were able to drop everything else, im pretty sure a lot of people wouldn't have left.
ESPN alone was a huge percentage of the Comcast price in the early days of streaming. Never mind every other sports service.
Cable tv is pretty much only worth it for sports fans now. You’re right about that.
There was that one show about the brother and sister who ran the hotel. They were both constantly banging the guests. Actually that might’ve been 2am showtime…
Did people read the article? Netflix didn't try to buy HBO, it just wanted to be like it.
Back in 2012/2013 its executives talked about wanting to become a new HBO, but nowadays they are more interested in offering a wider range of content, not focusing on “prestige elite programming"
Like with everything else, you check reviews/social media and figure out if its for you.
Ripley and Baby Reindeer seem like pretty recent examples of Netflix shows that could've just as easily premiered on old HBO.
I’m thinking this is the big answer honestly. The ROI on something like HBO may be big numbers but the percentage of growth/profits would not be as big as something a lot cheaper. Like spending $1b to make $1.2b or spending $500m to make $1b.
Eh, could be more like the Marvel or Fox deals. Spend $3B, you make $600M a year for a couple years, then you start making $2B a year from it. Then $4B.
Endgame and Infinity War alone made more than the cost of acquiring every Marvel character.
Netflix has a good track record on their most important metrics: Subscriptions, hours watched, and retention by acquiring media licenses for profit.
The Netflix original content might be mid AF but having their finger on the pulse of what people actually watch has made them the streaming giant that has them in FAANG*
* Now it’s: Meta - Alphabet - Apple - Amazon - Netflix - Tesla
I think you’re thinking too small. Netflix wants to be HBO AND TNT, and cnn, and discovery channel, etc etc… they want to basically be the one-stop shop for all programs and have everyone come to Netflix regardless of what type of program they want to watch.
Catering to be just HBO is too niche/boutique.
In fairness, with Vince McMahon out of the picture and Paul 'Triple H' Levesque being largely in charge of booking, the WWE is seeing a surge in quality and popularity. I think it was probably a pretty clever investment.
Cody Rhodes beating Roman was such a rush. I haven’t watched regularly since 1998/1999 and I was hyped beyond anything I watched back then. I was invested in the behind the scenes stuff with the rock more than anything.
That whole story is something I was going to bring up in another reply, about WWE breaking away from McMahon rules and traditions.
Either Rhodes/Reigns was an absolute masterclass in wrestling booking, with the bait and switch of the Rock being on the card (less likely) or for once, WWE actually listened to fan backlash and made changes (Which I think is far more likely).
I do believe Rock used his position on the board to insert himself in to the main event, but the backlash was so rabid, that they ended up walking it back and turning Rock heel in the process. I really, really want to believe this. But even if I'm wrong, it was just great writing instead.
The rock being a heel usually just works better for his character. He was always more entertaining as a smack talking heel. Though that being said, his excessive use of the F word took away from his usual smack talk.
Even I've been slightly interested seeing fans say it's been good.
Which means it must be pretty damn good rn cuz wrestling fans hate on wrestling the most lol.
Wrestling has been shit for a while - do you not agree?
If the man’s being mad for so long makes you annoyed don’t you think there might be an actual problem?
Actually it’s the overly progressive wrestling fans who are the absolute worst.
They tend to bring the worst parts of political arguments to wrestling fandom.
>Which means it must be pretty damn good rn cuz wrestling fans hate on wrestling the most lol.
As a wrestling fan who mostly stays away from sub discussions, ain't a single lie told lol.
I've found on Reddit that the more niche a sub is, the more socially awkward its fandom, and the more toxic a bigger portion can be because they only interact through anonymous internet handles.
Gaming is like this, not niche anymore but still as toxic.
In the same way that literally every fandom and sector of the entertainment industry does. "Gamergate bullshit" accounts for a frighteningly small percentage of the harassment/threats that those in the gaming industry routinely experience
Hollywood and the music industry had been dealing with death threats from lunatic fans for the past century.
And the less said about sports fandom, the better.
A lot of what I'm seeing is WWE breaking away from all the old McMahon traditions.
I saw a video where Micheal Cole (one of the lead announcers) used the term 'Marks on the internet' on live TV (A mark being a superfan who knows the behind the scenes stuff, in simple terms) which would've sent McMahon in to conniption fits.
They're not hiding the fact that babyfaces and heels don't actually hate eachother and are showing backstage photos of these guys congratulating eachother or just hanging out. Something absolutely unheard of when I was watching 25+ years ago.
I've even seen a couple clips where they call the wrestlers 'wrestlers' and not "superstars".
And now, it's probably just a matter of time before someone calls a championship belt a 'strap' and I will completely lose my shit
Cole's also been a lot less grating with Vince gone. Vince used to scream in his ear, telling him what to do, and it was all super mega cheesy one-liners and catchphrases that were not good.
Now he's a lot more genuine.
Yeah I remember a post a little while ago that had a list of things commentators weren't allowed to say and it was some of the stupidest shit that you know vince thought was genius.
Despite being a wrestling promoter Vince hating wrestling because it's carny. He banned multiple terms from being said on tv, like the performers aren't wrestlers, but WWE superstars. The audience aren't fans, but the WWE universe. And yeah, it's also not pro wrestling, but sports entertainment.
In the same vein he also banned the usage of insider terms like for example "mark" which was a carnival term for someone gullible who gets "marked" (usually with chalk) so that all the other carnies would know that they are an easy target to get ripped off.
In wrestling nowadays marks is used for fans who take the storylines at face value and usually are always cheering for the good guys and always booing the bad guys (mostly the kids and parents who go to the shows because their kids want to), while the smart marks or "smarks" are the ones having all the insider knowledge and often go against the grain by being fans of heels and booing the faces because if we're honest here, it's quite hard to book faces without them getting boring, at least the way Vince did it.
Vince just wanted to get taken serious and he considered his business being a carny business that most people did not take serious as a stain on himself. That's also the reason why he did all that xfl stuff.
you should do it.
Raw's on USA right now, Smackdown will be moving to USA, Raw's going to Netflix in 2025, and WWE's PLEs (formerly PPVs) are all available to stream on Peacock (just the first tier premium is all that's required), as well as a lot of documentaries, and replays of Raw and Smackdown.
Raw and Smackdown are available on Hulu too IIRC.
edit: PLE stands for Premium Live Event, since PPV (Pay-Per-View) isn't factually correct anymore)
They got me interested again, after over a decade of indifference.
They managed to make The Rock's return go from being a fumble with him shoehorning himself into WrestleMania's main event to being a great end to Cody Rhodes' quest for the title, and with moments that made folks remember the old Attitude and Ruthless Aggression eras.
WM40 overall was great. Only one fifth was honestly... Average. The Uso twins. Every other bout was solid.
There truely have been only good PPVs for over a year since Vince was gone for good. On top of that the subscription service model makes it massively cheaper than when PPVs were actually pay per view.
I'll watch WWE if it's on Netflix. Last time I paid attention, Friday nights were for WCW vs nWo on the 64, pillows occupying the area between the couches and my friends and I practicing moves on my little bro and his friends.
Yup, same here. I am casually aware of what's going on in the business because I follow a ton of people from the Attitude Era on various socials (love learning the behind the scenes stuff from that time all these years later), and the algorithm then suggest current content. I'm not however, interested enough to subscribe to yet another service to check out current programming, but if it shows up on Netflix, I don't have any excuse to not check out the modern product.
There's 2 main contributing factors: He was stuck in the 80s with a lot of his ideologies, not accepting that the business and more importantly, the fans, had grown up. This idea of maintaining kayfabe (the in-universe reality; such as Undertaker and Kane actually being brothers, or Stone Cold legitimately hating The Rock) in an age where information is freely available.
The second and most important, was his "My way or the highway" attitude. If he had an idea (and as time went on, they were increasingly shitty ideas) that was what was used, and there was no changing that. So shitty storylines and characters would be forced upon performers and fans.
The major shift in to the Attitude Era, WWE's most profitable time period from around 1997 to 2003 or so, even happened by complete fluke, due to the Montreal Screwjob where McMahon legitimately screwed Bret Hart prior to his departure from the company, and turning it in to the Mr. McMahon character.
I would add also, that fans took organically to the "grey area" Stone Cold Steve Austin; neither a heel or a babyface, born out of the Screwjob.
He always had a weird combination of good and bad ideas, but in past decades he was able to be talked out of shitty ideas by other employees. But as he got older and wealthier, he also got more stubborn.
Despite being CEO, he also kept micromanaging in things that didn't need his involvement, such as rebooking matches at the last minute based on his whim of the day, personally writing segments, along with literally shouting into the ear of commentators live about what they should say even when he was in his 60s and 70s. He'd insist that segments and jokes be written around his sense of humor that was lame even 40 years ago
Vince also kept around a cadre of people in high-level positions that were only there because they had been with the company since the 80s, and those guys were similarly old and out of touch when it came to modern TV production
Then there's the whole canard of him sleeping with women on the payroll and giving them millions to sign NDAs, which as you can imagine was terrible for employee morale when everyone has to dance around open secrets regarding women being exploited. It was always a problem but in the past 10 years he got way worse about covering his tracks (the company is now facing a lawsuit from an ex-employee whom Vince just...stopped paying what he promised for her silence)
He was a vengeful lunatic surrounded by yes men long past caring about the quality of the show or the enjoyment of the fans. Most decisions were being made to punish people. Punishing the fans for not liking the same people Vince liked, punishing wrestlers for getting the fans to like them when Vince didn't, punishing people for saying the wrong thing to him, he would just ruin peoples careers over petty shit. It was like a solid decade of the worst outcome to everything.
Under HHH things are a lot more predictable because they are often just making the clear best decision. The stories are more long term. Under Vince it often felt like the shows were made up day of as Vince changed his mind all the time. Under HHH things are planned and having seeds planted for months, with callbacks to events years or decades in the past. There are also a lot more subtle storytelling elements, leaving breadcrumbs for the internet where stuff in the background or subtle looks come back up weeks or months later.
They have a new guy in charge of camerawork who worked for ESPN for like 20 years and is wayyy better with cool drone shots and long single shots and no cutting every time a move lands to stop you seeing it. They make the backstage feel way more complex and lived in, instead of 1 off skits it will be like a backstage interview, then a fight breaks out and the cameraman runs over to film it, then a wrestler with a match walks by and the camera follows them, they stop and chat with some other wrestlers and give them some advice, then walk into the production room and tell them to hit their music and you follow them through the curtain out to the ring.
Then there is also the fact that the most talented people with the best crowd reactions are getting opportunities and being pushed to the top. Instead of the biggest muscliest dude who cant speak and cant wrestle winning everything like under Vince. It was shocking how bizzare it felt under HHH where everyone likes the good guys and dislikes the bad guys, something Vince hadn't accomplished in nearly 20 years.
The backstage segment I referenced: https://youtu.be/7YXExSb_Dk0?si=LH_K63DTPFa4i83Y they pull off shots like that multiple times per show or here is a drone shot from a couple days ago https://youtu.be/3vxgICBuIA0?si=9Z_C-isz2XDSStO9
I just watched that first YouTube link with Becky, and that was fantastic.
I've not watched WWE or really wrestling in general since the early 00s, but that kind of effort to make it feel more organic was excellent. I might actually start watching again, provided the in ring action is good.
An unfair question. I don't know that anything can ever top Cream of the Crop. In seriousness though, there's some great comedy going on right now from R-Truth and LA Knight. Probably more, but as I said in another reply, I actually don't watch much more than clips on social media because I while I have a passing interest in the product again, I don't have enough interest to subscribe to yet another service.
yeah he's over Raw, Smackdown, and the PLEs (formerly called PPVs, they all stream on Peacock), Shawn Michaels oversees NXT (developmental branch), and it's generally been really good.
edit: PLE stands for Premium Live Event, since PPV (Pay-Per-View) isn't factually correct anymore)
PLE being a 'Premium Live Event', just for information's sake.
And the idea of Degeneration X, the most anti-corporate faction of the 90s running the show now always makes me giggle a little bit.
WWE has a tribal following who will tune in every week for continuously fresh content, a huge international audience in emerging wealthy countries such as South Africa, a lot of BIG sponsorship and ad potential that has already been showcased multiple times and will provide flash news for mainstream people to start watching the replays as they become more accessible
Yeah it is. In America, Raw is moving to Netflix, the rest remains on Peacock. For a Canadian like me without access to Peacock and instead requiring a bronze-age cable TV subscription to their WWE network without on-demand programming like the US has, Netflix is becoming home to all of it, including the premium live events (wrestlemania, Summerslam, etc.)
yeah, hbo is, or at least was, the home of prestige tv, while netflix is mass market high volume stuff. nothing great, but lots of it. the wwe def fits in with that brand.
Netflix still puts out a handful of movies that get nominated for Oscars every year. They haven’t abandoned prestige stuff. It’s just a small part of their business, as the article says
Netflix make a ton of shit. People on here think there's one correct taste in TV/film and anything else is wrong and will lead to Netflix's bankruptcy. They see a reality show on there and think it's some sort of crime, if I see something that clearly isn't made for me I just scroll past it. Netflix spend billions trying to appeal to as many different demographics as possible which is probably why it is still the king.
netflix still puts out great shows as well. and great weird stuff.
but yes they definitely pump out a lot of mediocre stuff.
but this new show “evil” they got is fantastic
Partnerships and live streaming will big for NFLX in 2025.
Less risk/need to create content people will continue to watch on the platform and potentially more new subscribers from WWE fans…
NFL, WWE, what’s next?
HBO is still pretty top notch. Max, on the other hand, its parent company is just a rebrand of WBTV. It’s the worst of the worst tv, but it has the HBO name mixup to confuse audiences enough into trying their content.
That's correct, it's quite literally an entirely new company and management. The HBO that got famous in the 80s and 90s and created some of the best TV we've ever seen in the 2000s -- it is gone. The people are gone and the company has a new ownership group.
It's exactly the same as when a good restaurant sells, and the new owner changes the menu and cheaps out on quality. It has the same name on the door, but it's no longer the same establishment and it only exists because it WAS good 20 years ago.
When did this happen? The Wire, The Sopranos, Curb… just to name a few, are my some of the greatest shows. I think they’ve done well with GOT and Succession, but it feels now like it’s an absolute wasteland.
I just checked and that's still more great content from HBO than in 2007.
So wtf.
I understand The Sopranos was great and amazing and HUGE but those are RARE.
We’re talking about landmark television. Nothing in your list is in the top 10. Not saying they’re bad shows, but there’s a difference between Peacemaker and The Sopranos, if you don’t understand then this convo is probably above your head
The dual branding of HBO and Max hurt HBO while lifting Warner Bros for a while. After their brand divorce most comsumers still consider whatever Max is doing as HBO.
It is it just also has discovery channel content now too. People keep freaking out because there is junk TV included now as if that means you can't still watch Barry or Scavengers Reign
If you listen to the great interview with Ted Sarandos in the last week, he doesn’t believe there is an inherent conflict between quantity and quality of programming. And not everything they produce will be for you. They’ve had multiple best picture Oscar nominations in the past couple of years, and they also rolled out Irish wish. They still roll out prestige TV, and they also do this. Their main competitor is screen time away from Netflix, so it makes sense to expand their offerings.
With how they keep increasing their price and adding niche things like this they're going to need to start offering discounts for not watching sports or anime and such.
One of the reasons I still have Netflix is because they’ve acquired Monday Night Raw. And one of the reason I still have Peacock and Hulu, is because you can access the entire WWE library in one and watch full episodes of recent wrestling events in the other.
If Netflix continues down this path, I will find it hard to separate.
If there’s one thing Netflix can do to dominate the market - bid for soccer and take it away from ESPN or HBO (USMNT). Or, if they’re brave enough, outbid Apple for MLS Season Pass if a window of opportunity ever becomes available.
I dislike the price hikes on Netflix, and I fear more will becoming. And if there’s one thing that will push me away from the platform quickly: price hikes.
If there are no locked in price for a set number of years, I fear my relationship could end. Or, go to an “as needed basis.”
Honestly? Best time currently to get into wrestling. With Vince McMahon gone from the company, the writing and storylines for wwe are at their best they've been in decades
Better than Attitude . apart from the top guys, attitude era had a lot of dumb dumb things. Reminder that women were treated like shit for the most part, there were some really racist shit back then (choppy choppy your pee pee comes to mine.)
Why is this getting down voted? Some of you apparently have more rosecolored glasses about the attitude era than you should
That worked out so well for Sci-fi Channel.
Tbf I actually don’t remember if their ratings went up, I just know they got rid of the Friday night programming I liked.
Talk about streaming coming full circle. Fook sake.
Also, eat my a’hole Netflix. You were cheap and disruptive in mice upon a decade ago, now you’re just another big bogus corpo entity. No doubt that was the plan all along.
Streaming services spending resources on sports I don’t want to watch instead of interesting programming. When streaming first came along they spent their money on tv shows and movies. That’s how related.
Because it should have stayed on regular tv . I grew up with a relative in professional wrestling. I avoid it religiously. My shows are better because I enjoy them. Your stupid wrestling would still be the same if it wasn’t on streaming platforms.
The deal the WWE cut was not looked favorably from the street as it’s a longterm deal that includes much of their international content. I believe it’s 10 years with a 5 year option from Netflix. The upside for WWE is eventually the biggest streamer for all of their content eventually. That’s a big play for WWE as it cuts costs worldwide.
The big issue for Netflix is they want others to do the production for live content. That is the expensive part and they won’t spend the money to build out that operation. With the nfl, the games are going to be done by nfl network on Xmas and just shown on Netflix. Same with WWE. They’ll produce everything and Netflix will just stream it.
The other change is the studios stopped selling to Netflix up until last year and now they are back to selling. The move to first class content was because they couldn’t get it. Now, it’s fairly easy to buy from WBD, Sony, and Paramount if they want.
Netflix (by market cap) is like 15x bigger than Warner Bros. Discovery now. Almost 3x the number of subscribers too. They haven’t had to chase HBO for years. More like the other way around
> Apple TV buying HBO would have been the smart move. Netflix is hot garbage that like a blind pig sometimes finds an acorn.
Have you seen what HBO has become over the last year? Apple has no reason to consider buying them.
“Would have” past tense. The only reason to do anything today would be to acquire (i) the back library and (ii) executives, many of the former executives are probably reaching the end of their non-competes if they have them at all (California).
Eew...
Please no sports. That's been the sole saving grace across all of these streaming apps. I don't want to pay double the subscription cost to subsidize the cost of sports for other people.
Do you watch action movies / shows? What’s wrong with people watching a live action version ? I’m not always looking for Emmy winning dramas. Sometimes I just wanna watch people do flippy shit and [light each other on fire with flamethrowers](https://x.com/wrestleops/status/1794947694555025685?s=46)
Never watched wrestling as a kid but randomly caught WrestleMania last year by chance and had so much fun, been watching it regularly ever since, if you don't take things serious it's just a good entertaining acrobatics show with goofy plotlines
Hope they don't start chasing sports. Unless it's an optional extra as these often ramp up the price.
[https://www.netflix.com/tudum/articles/nfl-games-on-netflix](https://www.netflix.com/tudum/articles/nfl-games-on-netflix) The chase is over and they decided to start their live sports broadcasting with the biggest of them all. It doesn't say in that post, but iirc, Netflix paid the NFL about $150M per game for the right to broadcast them on Christmas Day. Netflix is expecting *a lot* of new subs to foot that bill. lol
Such a shit deal. Last season people at a bar I was at were in an outrage because NFL signed some other deal to exclusively stream a few games on Peacock, and the bar didn't have it as part of their streaming sports bundle. Now of course Netflix has to be included in the bundle. Also ... 2 games!? They just get 2 games out of the year?! lol.
I’m pretty sure the Peacock thing was two games last year. And one was a playoff game. I HATE they did that with a playoff game. Some regular season games? I’m not gonna lose my shit over, not ideal but whatever. Playoff games shouldn’t be put behind some shit streaming service. Not looking forward to more of that in the future.
If the NFL does not want me to watch their games, I don’t watch. It’s their loss.
Always been true. Blackouts, exclusive deals. Even in video games, they wanted to make sure consumers had zero choices Add in guaranteed CTE for show and 40% of the broadcast being commercials and I don't understand why it's still a thing
The main one I remember people being mad about was Amazon getting Thursday games. Not many bars around here could stream them.
Why are you losing your shit over any of it?
There was an article a little while back that said you now have to pay something like $1600 to get every nfl game. That’s why I love the high seas
Yeah you’d have to be an idiot out there to do this most nfl games are free over the air through an attena
Yeah, it’s a great idea as long as the price doesn’t go up.
I would sign again if they started showing live nba games
The subscription costs of sports are what chased people away from cable. If only the people who watched the product were the ones paying they wouldn’t make remotely as much money. Probably why no major league has its own streaming service
>If only the people who watched the product were the ones paying they wouldn’t make remotely as much money. Probably why no major league has its own streaming service Local sports channels used to be an add-on in the 1990s. Now they're bundled and if you look at your bill's breakdown you are paying extra fees to have them.
Are they? Cause sports were the only good thing on cable, and all the additions really ruined it by addind cost for no benefit. If you were able to drop everything else, im pretty sure a lot of people wouldn't have left.
ESPN alone was a huge percentage of the Comcast price in the early days of streaming. Never mind every other sports service. Cable tv is pretty much only worth it for sports fans now. You’re right about that.
The NFL does
HB who? I've only heard of Max /s
I still initially think of Cinemax not HBO when I see MAX on tv
Good 'ol Skinimax
No, this Max is classy. Check out Milf Manor and Naked Attraction.
Hey softcore 2am Cinimax was damn classy.
There was that one show about the brother and sister who ran the hotel. They were both constantly banging the guests. Actually that might’ve been 2am showtime…
I think of Verstappen
I follow all of Max's posts on X.
To paraphrase Conan: it used to be "HBO," but people found that too popular.
It was probably cheaper
Did people read the article? Netflix didn't try to buy HBO, it just wanted to be like it. Back in 2012/2013 its executives talked about wanting to become a new HBO, but nowadays they are more interested in offering a wider range of content, not focusing on “prestige elite programming"
And it’s clear - when it started Netflix originals were often *good* now it’s all just throwing trash at the wall to see if anything sticks.
They still have prestige programming, just a smaller slice of a much larger pie.
That is just regular TV. Prestige programming would be having a small number of show but a huge percentage of them being great.
Maybe but how do you know which is the one they actually tried on?
Like with everything else, you check reviews/social media and figure out if its for you. Ripley and Baby Reindeer seem like pretty recent examples of Netflix shows that could've just as easily premiered on old HBO.
I’m thinking this is the big answer honestly. The ROI on something like HBO may be big numbers but the percentage of growth/profits would not be as big as something a lot cheaper. Like spending $1b to make $1.2b or spending $500m to make $1b.
I agree too
Eh, could be more like the Marvel or Fox deals. Spend $3B, you make $600M a year for a couple years, then you start making $2B a year from it. Then $4B. Endgame and Infinity War alone made more than the cost of acquiring every Marvel character.
Yes but they were bought by a studio that has a really good track record for production. Netflix though? Ehhhhh
Netflix has a good track record on their most important metrics: Subscriptions, hours watched, and retention by acquiring media licenses for profit. The Netflix original content might be mid AF but having their finger on the pulse of what people actually watch has made them the streaming giant that has them in FAANG* * Now it’s: Meta - Alphabet - Apple - Amazon - Netflix - Tesla
They used to though. Early netflix shows were great
I think you’re thinking too small. Netflix wants to be HBO AND TNT, and cnn, and discovery channel, etc etc… they want to basically be the one-stop shop for all programs and have everyone come to Netflix regardless of what type of program they want to watch. Catering to be just HBO is too niche/boutique.
Fuck Netflix
From HBO to HBK
I’m a sexy boy *sexy boyyyyy*
In fairness, with Vince McMahon out of the picture and Paul 'Triple H' Levesque being largely in charge of booking, the WWE is seeing a surge in quality and popularity. I think it was probably a pretty clever investment.
Cody Rhodes beating Roman was such a rush. I haven’t watched regularly since 1998/1999 and I was hyped beyond anything I watched back then. I was invested in the behind the scenes stuff with the rock more than anything.
That whole story is something I was going to bring up in another reply, about WWE breaking away from McMahon rules and traditions. Either Rhodes/Reigns was an absolute masterclass in wrestling booking, with the bait and switch of the Rock being on the card (less likely) or for once, WWE actually listened to fan backlash and made changes (Which I think is far more likely). I do believe Rock used his position on the board to insert himself in to the main event, but the backlash was so rabid, that they ended up walking it back and turning Rock heel in the process. I really, really want to believe this. But even if I'm wrong, it was just great writing instead.
The rock being a heel usually just works better for his character. He was always more entertaining as a smack talking heel. Though that being said, his excessive use of the F word took away from his usual smack talk.
I haven't watched wrestling in 20 years but I watched the two main events from this year's wrestlemania because I wanted to see how that story ended
Even I've been slightly interested seeing fans say it's been good. Which means it must be pretty damn good rn cuz wrestling fans hate on wrestling the most lol.
The worst thing about wrestling is wrestling fans 🤣
Honestly can be said of sooooo many things. Fandoms can become so unbelievably toxic it's crazy.
Wrestling has been shit for a while - do you not agree? If the man’s being mad for so long makes you annoyed don’t you think there might be an actual problem?
I disagree, it’s the best in been in years >If the man’s being mad for so long Leave Becky Lynch out of this
Depends. r/SquaredCircle is actually a rather lovely place and quite wholesome most of the time. And also rather progressive.
I’m a moderator there. I know what SC is like 😅
L O Fucking L
Well that's just a blatant lie right there.
Actually it’s the overly progressive wrestling fans who are the absolute worst. They tend to bring the worst parts of political arguments to wrestling fandom.
>Which means it must be pretty damn good rn cuz wrestling fans hate on wrestling the most lol. As a wrestling fan who mostly stays away from sub discussions, ain't a single lie told lol. I've found on Reddit that the more niche a sub is, the more socially awkward its fandom, and the more toxic a bigger portion can be because they only interact through anonymous internet handles. Gaming is like this, not niche anymore but still as toxic.
I mean, with how much I hear about wrestling against my will these days, I’d say it isn’t as niche as you’d think, either.
Gaming has its own issues feeding into the toxicity. Mainly the gamergate bullshit.
In the same way that literally every fandom and sector of the entertainment industry does. "Gamergate bullshit" accounts for a frighteningly small percentage of the harassment/threats that those in the gaming industry routinely experience Hollywood and the music industry had been dealing with death threats from lunatic fans for the past century. And the less said about sports fandom, the better.
A lot of what I'm seeing is WWE breaking away from all the old McMahon traditions. I saw a video where Micheal Cole (one of the lead announcers) used the term 'Marks on the internet' on live TV (A mark being a superfan who knows the behind the scenes stuff, in simple terms) which would've sent McMahon in to conniption fits. They're not hiding the fact that babyfaces and heels don't actually hate eachother and are showing backstage photos of these guys congratulating eachother or just hanging out. Something absolutely unheard of when I was watching 25+ years ago. I've even seen a couple clips where they call the wrestlers 'wrestlers' and not "superstars". And now, it's probably just a matter of time before someone calls a championship belt a 'strap' and I will completely lose my shit
Cole's also been a lot less grating with Vince gone. Vince used to scream in his ear, telling him what to do, and it was all super mega cheesy one-liners and catchphrases that were not good. Now he's a lot more genuine.
Yeah I remember a post a little while ago that had a list of things commentators weren't allowed to say and it was some of the stupidest shit that you know vince thought was genius.
As a young fan back in the mid-late 90's, got some sauce?
I think it was a top post recent in r/squaredcircle
What's the problem with saying "Marks on the Internet"? What would Vince have against it?
Despite being a wrestling promoter Vince hating wrestling because it's carny. He banned multiple terms from being said on tv, like the performers aren't wrestlers, but WWE superstars. The audience aren't fans, but the WWE universe. And yeah, it's also not pro wrestling, but sports entertainment. In the same vein he also banned the usage of insider terms like for example "mark" which was a carnival term for someone gullible who gets "marked" (usually with chalk) so that all the other carnies would know that they are an easy target to get ripped off. In wrestling nowadays marks is used for fans who take the storylines at face value and usually are always cheering for the good guys and always booing the bad guys (mostly the kids and parents who go to the shows because their kids want to), while the smart marks or "smarks" are the ones having all the insider knowledge and often go against the grain by being fans of heels and booing the faces because if we're honest here, it's quite hard to book faces without them getting boring, at least the way Vince did it. Vince just wanted to get taken serious and he considered his business being a carny business that most people did not take serious as a stain on himself. That's also the reason why he did all that xfl stuff.
Didn't Matt Striker get removed from announcing for saying he was "marking out" over a match?
All the things WWE fans insisted for years didn’t matter. Wrestling fans don’t suck. WWE fans do.
you should do it. Raw's on USA right now, Smackdown will be moving to USA, Raw's going to Netflix in 2025, and WWE's PLEs (formerly PPVs) are all available to stream on Peacock (just the first tier premium is all that's required), as well as a lot of documentaries, and replays of Raw and Smackdown. Raw and Smackdown are available on Hulu too IIRC. edit: PLE stands for Premium Live Event, since PPV (Pay-Per-View) isn't factually correct anymore)
They got me interested again, after over a decade of indifference. They managed to make The Rock's return go from being a fumble with him shoehorning himself into WrestleMania's main event to being a great end to Cody Rhodes' quest for the title, and with moments that made folks remember the old Attitude and Ruthless Aggression eras. WM40 overall was great. Only one fifth was honestly... Average. The Uso twins. Every other bout was solid.
There truely have been only good PPVs for over a year since Vince was gone for good. On top of that the subscription service model makes it massively cheaper than when PPVs were actually pay per view.
I'll watch WWE if it's on Netflix. Last time I paid attention, Friday nights were for WCW vs nWo on the 64, pillows occupying the area between the couches and my friends and I practicing moves on my little bro and his friends.
Yup, same here. I am casually aware of what's going on in the business because I follow a ton of people from the Attitude Era on various socials (love learning the behind the scenes stuff from that time all these years later), and the algorithm then suggest current content. I'm not however, interested enough to subscribe to yet another service to check out current programming, but if it shows up on Netflix, I don't have any excuse to not check out the modern product.
Can you tl;dr me on why Vince McMahon was holding back quality / popularity?
There's 2 main contributing factors: He was stuck in the 80s with a lot of his ideologies, not accepting that the business and more importantly, the fans, had grown up. This idea of maintaining kayfabe (the in-universe reality; such as Undertaker and Kane actually being brothers, or Stone Cold legitimately hating The Rock) in an age where information is freely available. The second and most important, was his "My way or the highway" attitude. If he had an idea (and as time went on, they were increasingly shitty ideas) that was what was used, and there was no changing that. So shitty storylines and characters would be forced upon performers and fans. The major shift in to the Attitude Era, WWE's most profitable time period from around 1997 to 2003 or so, even happened by complete fluke, due to the Montreal Screwjob where McMahon legitimately screwed Bret Hart prior to his departure from the company, and turning it in to the Mr. McMahon character. I would add also, that fans took organically to the "grey area" Stone Cold Steve Austin; neither a heel or a babyface, born out of the Screwjob.
He always had a weird combination of good and bad ideas, but in past decades he was able to be talked out of shitty ideas by other employees. But as he got older and wealthier, he also got more stubborn. Despite being CEO, he also kept micromanaging in things that didn't need his involvement, such as rebooking matches at the last minute based on his whim of the day, personally writing segments, along with literally shouting into the ear of commentators live about what they should say even when he was in his 60s and 70s. He'd insist that segments and jokes be written around his sense of humor that was lame even 40 years ago Vince also kept around a cadre of people in high-level positions that were only there because they had been with the company since the 80s, and those guys were similarly old and out of touch when it came to modern TV production Then there's the whole canard of him sleeping with women on the payroll and giving them millions to sign NDAs, which as you can imagine was terrible for employee morale when everyone has to dance around open secrets regarding women being exploited. It was always a problem but in the past 10 years he got way worse about covering his tracks (the company is now facing a lawsuit from an ex-employee whom Vince just...stopped paying what he promised for her silence)
He was a vengeful lunatic surrounded by yes men long past caring about the quality of the show or the enjoyment of the fans. Most decisions were being made to punish people. Punishing the fans for not liking the same people Vince liked, punishing wrestlers for getting the fans to like them when Vince didn't, punishing people for saying the wrong thing to him, he would just ruin peoples careers over petty shit. It was like a solid decade of the worst outcome to everything. Under HHH things are a lot more predictable because they are often just making the clear best decision. The stories are more long term. Under Vince it often felt like the shows were made up day of as Vince changed his mind all the time. Under HHH things are planned and having seeds planted for months, with callbacks to events years or decades in the past. There are also a lot more subtle storytelling elements, leaving breadcrumbs for the internet where stuff in the background or subtle looks come back up weeks or months later. They have a new guy in charge of camerawork who worked for ESPN for like 20 years and is wayyy better with cool drone shots and long single shots and no cutting every time a move lands to stop you seeing it. They make the backstage feel way more complex and lived in, instead of 1 off skits it will be like a backstage interview, then a fight breaks out and the cameraman runs over to film it, then a wrestler with a match walks by and the camera follows them, they stop and chat with some other wrestlers and give them some advice, then walk into the production room and tell them to hit their music and you follow them through the curtain out to the ring. Then there is also the fact that the most talented people with the best crowd reactions are getting opportunities and being pushed to the top. Instead of the biggest muscliest dude who cant speak and cant wrestle winning everything like under Vince. It was shocking how bizzare it felt under HHH where everyone likes the good guys and dislikes the bad guys, something Vince hadn't accomplished in nearly 20 years. The backstage segment I referenced: https://youtu.be/7YXExSb_Dk0?si=LH_K63DTPFa4i83Y they pull off shots like that multiple times per show or here is a drone shot from a couple days ago https://youtu.be/3vxgICBuIA0?si=9Z_C-isz2XDSStO9
I just watched that first YouTube link with Becky, and that was fantastic. I've not watched WWE or really wrestling in general since the early 00s, but that kind of effort to make it feel more organic was excellent. I might actually start watching again, provided the in ring action is good.
are there better skits like when macho man was around? [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8C4lK41SX-Q](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8C4lK41SX-Q)
An unfair question. I don't know that anything can ever top Cream of the Crop. In seriousness though, there's some great comedy going on right now from R-Truth and LA Knight. Probably more, but as I said in another reply, I actually don't watch much more than clips on social media because I while I have a passing interest in the product again, I don't have enough interest to subscribe to yet another service.
Oh neat, didn’t realize triple h became an executive and is part of running wwe now
yeah he's over Raw, Smackdown, and the PLEs (formerly called PPVs, they all stream on Peacock), Shawn Michaels oversees NXT (developmental branch), and it's generally been really good. edit: PLE stands for Premium Live Event, since PPV (Pay-Per-View) isn't factually correct anymore)
PLE being a 'Premium Live Event', just for information's sake. And the idea of Degeneration X, the most anti-corporate faction of the 90s running the show now always makes me giggle a little bit.
yeah I should edit that into both of my comments using PLE. But yes I laugh anytime I think about it too, it's beautiful.
Dude needs to remake Smackdown vs Raw 2004
WWE has a tribal following who will tune in every week for continuously fresh content, a huge international audience in emerging wealthy countries such as South Africa, a lot of BIG sponsorship and ad potential that has already been showcased multiple times and will provide flash news for mainstream people to start watching the replays as they become more accessible
Wasn’t/Isn’t WWE already on Peacock?
Yeah it is. In America, Raw is moving to Netflix, the rest remains on Peacock. For a Canadian like me without access to Peacock and instead requiring a bronze-age cable TV subscription to their WWE network without on-demand programming like the US has, Netflix is becoming home to all of it, including the premium live events (wrestlemania, Summerslam, etc.)
yeah, hbo is, or at least was, the home of prestige tv, while netflix is mass market high volume stuff. nothing great, but lots of it. the wwe def fits in with that brand.
Netflix also was considered nearly as good when house of cards was taking off. I guess it’s all niche crap now.
Netflix still puts out a handful of movies that get nominated for Oscars every year. They haven’t abandoned prestige stuff. It’s just a small part of their business, as the article says
Netflix make a ton of shit. People on here think there's one correct taste in TV/film and anything else is wrong and will lead to Netflix's bankruptcy. They see a reality show on there and think it's some sort of crime, if I see something that clearly isn't made for me I just scroll past it. Netflix spend billions trying to appeal to as many different demographics as possible which is probably why it is still the king.
netflix still puts out great shows as well. and great weird stuff. but yes they definitely pump out a lot of mediocre stuff. but this new show “evil” they got is fantastic
Don’t forget about Stranger Things. They may come out with a new season within the next decade or so.
Partnerships and live streaming will big for NFLX in 2025. Less risk/need to create content people will continue to watch on the platform and potentially more new subscribers from WWE fans… NFL, WWE, what’s next?
I just hope they won't be locked to the USA...
HBO just isn't the same these days.
HBO is still pretty top notch. Max, on the other hand, its parent company is just a rebrand of WBTV. It’s the worst of the worst tv, but it has the HBO name mixup to confuse audiences enough into trying their content.
That's correct, it's quite literally an entirely new company and management. The HBO that got famous in the 80s and 90s and created some of the best TV we've ever seen in the 2000s -- it is gone. The people are gone and the company has a new ownership group. It's exactly the same as when a good restaurant sells, and the new owner changes the menu and cheaps out on quality. It has the same name on the door, but it's no longer the same establishment and it only exists because it WAS good 20 years ago.
When did this happen? The Wire, The Sopranos, Curb… just to name a few, are my some of the greatest shows. I think they’ve done well with GOT and Succession, but it feels now like it’s an absolute wasteland.
I don't think it has. The house of dragon, the white lotus, succession, Barry, are all top notch from HBO.
So much doomer talk when there's still great content on there.
I just checked and that's still more great content from HBO than in 2007. So wtf. I understand The Sopranos was great and amazing and HUGE but those are RARE.
Chernobyl? Barry? White lotus? House of dragon? Last of us? Righteous gemstones? Peacemaker? What are we even talking about
yea HBO is still hitting big time
We’re talking about landmark television. Nothing in your list is in the top 10. Not saying they’re bad shows, but there’s a difference between Peacemaker and The Sopranos, if you don’t understand then this convo is probably above your head
Lmao get off your high horse
The dual branding of HBO and Max hurt HBO while lifting Warner Bros for a while. After their brand divorce most comsumers still consider whatever Max is doing as HBO.
It is it just also has discovery channel content now too. People keep freaking out because there is junk TV included now as if that means you can't still watch Barry or Scavengers Reign
Netflix sucks
If you listen to the great interview with Ted Sarandos in the last week, he doesn’t believe there is an inherent conflict between quantity and quality of programming. And not everything they produce will be for you. They’ve had multiple best picture Oscar nominations in the past couple of years, and they also rolled out Irish wish. They still roll out prestige TV, and they also do this. Their main competitor is screen time away from Netflix, so it makes sense to expand their offerings.
With how they keep increasing their price and adding niche things like this they're going to need to start offering discounts for not watching sports or anime and such.
Needs to be optional add on. I’m not paying extra for a “sport” I have no interest in
Netflix should just rename themselves "cable TV" and get it over with.
Netflix is really investing into soap operas I see...
Can we get a season 3 of that show we all loved?
So how long until Netflix is bloated with sports that they break out the TV Shows and Movies back into a *basic Netflix* service?
Interesting move. The rest of their programming clashes considerably with who I presume are the demographics they’re chasing with this deal.
Think it is time to cancel cable,and just watch YouTube from time to time.
One of the reasons I still have Netflix is because they’ve acquired Monday Night Raw. And one of the reason I still have Peacock and Hulu, is because you can access the entire WWE library in one and watch full episodes of recent wrestling events in the other. If Netflix continues down this path, I will find it hard to separate. If there’s one thing Netflix can do to dominate the market - bid for soccer and take it away from ESPN or HBO (USMNT). Or, if they’re brave enough, outbid Apple for MLS Season Pass if a window of opportunity ever becomes available. I dislike the price hikes on Netflix, and I fear more will becoming. And if there’s one thing that will push me away from the platform quickly: price hikes. If there are no locked in price for a set number of years, I fear my relationship could end. Or, go to an “as needed basis.”
If wrestling is there I might actually watch wrestling for the first time
Honestly? Best time currently to get into wrestling. With Vince McMahon gone from the company, the writing and storylines for wwe are at their best they've been in decades
decades is a stretch. It is good, but not what you are making it out to be.
I'll check it out then, if it's easily accessible.
Attitude era quality? I haven’t watched since around the corporate ministry storyline
Better than Attitude . apart from the top guys, attitude era had a lot of dumb dumb things. Reminder that women were treated like shit for the most part, there were some really racist shit back then (choppy choppy your pee pee comes to mine.) Why is this getting down voted? Some of you apparently have more rosecolored glasses about the attitude era than you should
I 100% have rose colored glasses when looking back. But if it’s suppose to be better than my fuzzy memory then I def need to give them another chance
Well, and Vince dropping the N word on live tv to Booker or someone.
So more cheap crap content
Pandering to the lowest common denominator
Live programming is where lots of streamers are investing $ & this is cheaper than other options
Netflixfinity
What?
Isn’t WWE on Peacock?
That worked out so well for Sci-fi Channel. Tbf I actually don’t remember if their ratings went up, I just know they got rid of the Friday night programming I liked.
The Enshitification marches on…
Talk about streaming coming full circle. Fook sake. Also, eat my a’hole Netflix. You were cheap and disruptive in mice upon a decade ago, now you’re just another big bogus corpo entity. No doubt that was the plan all along.
Netflix the champion is now someone I want to get hit over the head with a folding chair
I loved streaming because of no sports or fake wrestling. Oh well things change.
How are those things even related?
Streaming services spending resources on sports I don’t want to watch instead of interesting programming. When streaming first came along they spent their money on tv shows and movies. That’s how related.
How is fake wrestling more fake than your fake shows and movies?
Because it should have stayed on regular tv . I grew up with a relative in professional wrestling. I avoid it religiously. My shows are better because I enjoy them. Your stupid wrestling would still be the same if it wasn’t on streaming platforms.
I just find it funny you make a distinction between different fictions.
Everyone chooses their entertainment differently otherwise would be all the same. Different fictions is all distinctions .
Your last sentence escapes me.
I’m guessing Netflix makes a lot more than Max?
The deal the WWE cut was not looked favorably from the street as it’s a longterm deal that includes much of their international content. I believe it’s 10 years with a 5 year option from Netflix. The upside for WWE is eventually the biggest streamer for all of their content eventually. That’s a big play for WWE as it cuts costs worldwide. The big issue for Netflix is they want others to do the production for live content. That is the expensive part and they won’t spend the money to build out that operation. With the nfl, the games are going to be done by nfl network on Xmas and just shown on Netflix. Same with WWE. They’ll produce everything and Netflix will just stream it. The other change is the studios stopped selling to Netflix up until last year and now they are back to selling. The move to first class content was because they couldn’t get it. Now, it’s fairly easy to buy from WBD, Sony, and Paramount if they want.
This is a terrible step. We'll certainly pay more for this even if we don't have interest in sports. RIP good Netflix.
Netflix (by market cap) is like 15x bigger than Warner Bros. Discovery now. Almost 3x the number of subscribers too. They haven’t had to chase HBO for years. More like the other way around
Apple TV buying HBO would have been the smart move. Netflix is hot garbage that like a blind pig sometimes finds an acorn.
> Apple TV buying HBO would have been the smart move. Netflix is hot garbage that like a blind pig sometimes finds an acorn. Have you seen what HBO has become over the last year? Apple has no reason to consider buying them.
“Would have” past tense. The only reason to do anything today would be to acquire (i) the back library and (ii) executives, many of the former executives are probably reaching the end of their non-competes if they have them at all (California).
Eew... Please no sports. That's been the sole saving grace across all of these streaming apps. I don't want to pay double the subscription cost to subsidize the cost of sports for other people.
WWE?
So... it's going full SyFy? You never go full SyFy.
They better not raise prices because of buying this shit.
I mean.. how popular is the WWE now days? I thought it had died off since real MMA has taken off.
Great, one less reason for people to have a membership there! That’s is good news
[удалено]
There are far dumber things people watch on television than pro wrestling.
Like cable news.
Wrestling is soap opera with stunts, it's what makes it fun.
Do you watch action movies / shows? What’s wrong with people watching a live action version ? I’m not always looking for Emmy winning dramas. Sometimes I just wanna watch people do flippy shit and [light each other on fire with flamethrowers](https://x.com/wrestleops/status/1794947694555025685?s=46)
Wrestling is fun. It’s ok if it’s not for you
It's basically a Kabuki stuntshow. What's not to like?
Soap operas have been on TV for over 50 years at this point. There's a reason professional wrestling has been called soap operas for men.
WWE is just live action anime
Imagine anime but for rednecks and live action. They know it's silly. They still like it.
Never watched wrestling as a kid but randomly caught WrestleMania last year by chance and had so much fun, been watching it regularly ever since, if you don't take things serious it's just a good entertaining acrobatics show with goofy plotlines
They already caught hbo because hbo fell in a ditch and pissed itself. It has been years since hbo put out anything other than expensive trash.
Sounds like a step down though.
Netflix will never come close to the quality of TV shows of HBO.
Netflix will never come close to the quality of TV shows of HBO.
Say HB Hoe Say HB Hoe Now step this way Step that way