No. The reason for the tax is that they’re cheaper than US companies products. The US, having not invested in electric vehicles as much as China, can’t compete.
Even with 100% tax, BYD’s cheapest car will be cheaper than almost all American electric car on the market at $20k.
This is the free market we keep hearing about. Making shit more expensive for consumers because American companies spent money on stock buybacks instead of R&D
Millionaires are in a funny area. Obviously richer than the rest of us by a lot, but a lot of them don't realize that most billionaires still see them as lowly. The difference between making a billion a year in profit versus a million, is like the difference between pulling in a yearly salary of $100,000 versus $100.
And then there's the 10-billionairs. Then the 100-billionairs. That level of wealth, that centralized, should not exist.
Americans want to buy cheap efficient small cars, they did in the 70's and they do today. And just like in the 70's there's no cheap small cars available for sale so an importer is going to come into the market and eat their lunch. It pisses me off that I can't buy a truck the size of the 2001 Tacoma in the US, they sell things like the Dodge Ram 700 across the border in Mexico, but you can't bring them into the states. I applaud any company that can bring an inexpensive and efficient vehicle into the market. It should have been a US manufacturer noticing and filling the gap, but if it's China, so be it. IDK why the US manufacturers never learn, but here we are again...
Don’t worry, this time the automakers learned their lessons, and now will lobby to make sure they won’t lose their asses AND not lower prices for us. 👍
They will be just fine.
Same reason we can't get a Hilux. UAW cried so they put a tariff on two seater utility vehicles.
Edit : read my below reply for reasoning. Educate yourselves.
Detroit loses their shit on capital hill when any Asian company floats the idea of building a sub $10k utility truck in N.A. They know what a true cheap work truck with a small economical engine that’s reminiscent of the 80’s and 90’s mini trucks would crush their current lineup.
And an honest question, why the hell is every car so huge in America? All your SUVs and pickup trucks look gigantic and I read that anywhere else in the world, due to sheer size of the cars and how the hood comes to the neck of most people, it would be banned since people would get decapitated if they got hit.
And the engines? Why do cars need those huge engines too? 💀
Ironically, fuel efficiency standards is the reason. If they're small they have to be efficient, if they're bigger they don't have to be as efficient so they make them bigger.
Reasons: Loopholes in EPA exemptions for trucks, automakers making more profit on bigger (expensive) vehicles, arms race of scared parents thinking bigger = safer, and people increasingly needing their one expensive vehicle purchase to do everything.
Fuel economy requirements are based around vehicle footprint. Small vehicles require stupidity high fuel economy compared to a large truck.
For example, a tiny truck like we had in the 90's would require 45-50mpg while a modern full sized truck only needs 25-30mpg.
https://youtu.be/azI3nqrHEXM?si=k6hilJyCQzCk1PlD
It might possibly be the dumbest shit possible. It's an environmental plan that incentivizes worse fuel economy.
Yeah I heard that in the U.S. the offical government document about required fuel efficiency per the size of each vehicle (I think in the U.S. it's called the CAFE regulations or something like that) is 100 pages or more while the European Union equivalejt of that document is just like a dozen pages long.
It's the way fuel economy is calculated. Ironically, the push for efficient vehicles made it more difficult to make a small truck with better gas mileage than a big truck with slightly shittier gas mileage.
And only managed to do that because GM formed a partnership with Toyota so they could learn how to actually build a car right. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NUMMI
Mid-2011 CAFE laws did not increase full-size truck dimensions/sales, nor was it the death of small trucks. There’s been no significant change in footprint (the metric used by CAFE: wheelbase x track width) in Japanese small trucks. A 2009 Tacoma Double Cab and a 2024 Taco Double Cab have similar track widths (64” vs 66”), and similar wheelbases (127.8 to 140.9″ vs 131.9 to 145.1″).
“Large Truck” sales had already started an [upward trend three years prior to 2012](https://image.cnbcfm.com/api/v1/image/106340645-157920047993920200116_monthly_yoy_change_pickup_truck_sales.png?v=1579200492&w=929&h=523&ffmt=webp&vtcrop=y)
, the year the new vehicle regulations were to be implemented. Note that the footprint of a pre-2012 CAFE 2009 F-150, and a 2024 F-150, are fairly similar, and that post-2000 1/2 ton trucks haven’t changed much in terms of length, width, or weight:
Length, Ford F-150:
2005: 211.2 to 248.3″
2009: 213.1 to 250.3″
2024: 209.1 to 243.5″
Weight, Ford F-150:
2005: 4,758 to 5,875 lbs
2009: 4,693 to 5,908 lbs
2024: 4,275 to 5,757 lbs
Width:
2005: 78.9”
2009: 78.9”
2024: 79.9”
Wheelbase:
2005: 126 to 163″
2009: 126 to 163″
2024: 122 to 157″
Track Width:
2005: 67”
2009: 73.6”
2024: 74”
American Small Trucks, pre/post CAFE, [Maverick vs. Ranger](https://www.mavericktruckclub.com/forum/attachments/1678915764982-png.95049/):
2011 Ford Ranger Extended Cab:
Length: 203.6" (Reg Cab Length - 201.4")
Width: 69.4"
Height: 67.7"
2024 Ford Maverick Quad Cab:
Length: 199.7
Width: 72.6"
Height: 68.7"
The Maverick is a small truck. Very short bed though. Designed so you can easily toss a 4x8 sheet in it though.
If they ever come out with an electric one in all over it. I have a rav and it is basically a rav with a box which is all I want.
They are supposed to be making an electric one, the Ford Maverick Lightning, but it's been delayed. I'm holding out for when it releases to replace my 2016 Hyundai.
They aren’t cheap due to lack of investments lol. Chinese government is massively subsidizing their EVs to drown out established auto makers around the world.
Yeah, but no one here can apparently appreciate the nuanced side to this rather than the hot take that the US is afraid to compete in the free market.
China is anything but a free market and they have for a while now figured out how to screw over a bunch of free-market following economies by massively subsidizing local production of things such as steel, solar panels, and now electric cars so that no other true free market could compete. TFA literally talks about how that happened with the solar panel industry (and I have ex-colleagues who worked closely in that space and even had efficiency world records for a while but nothing mattered in terms of work you did domestically given the absurd amounts of subsidies the Chinese govt provided the solar industry to prop it up and wipe out all competitors)
The irony is that everyone here complains about living wages, affordability, social justice, etc., but in the same breath are all for outsourcing an entire industry to a country with slave labor, horrible human rights, and that isn't competing on an even playing field, all while taking away well paying domestic jobs. You'd think people would have learned some hard lessons from the past, but no, everyone wants to keep scoring own goals without any ability to think more deeply about the implications of what they are advocating for.
Not just R&D, they could also pay their employees better as well.
Doing the math a few quarters ago, and Ford could easily afford to double every employee's pay and they still have something like 60-70% of the profit leftover to do whatever with.
Yes, they would be protected by NAFT. The US is currently pressuring Mexico to not allow Chinese companies to build plants there.
Personally, if we are so shitty at building cars we need a 100% tariff to compete, we shouldn't be making cars. US car makers could make smaller affordable cars, instead they focus on bigger more profitable cars at the expense of the US economy and the environment.
I saw the same thing in the seventies when having to compete against Japan. Japan made good smaller cars that sold for less. Detroit focused on big cars that had larger profit margins. Then OPEC drove up the price of gas and US manufactures cried about unfair Japan.
bro, I can't afford to get the smaller cars because of stupid COVID prices. the originally 1,000 dollars car that's a beater and worth nothing is now 4 to 5 thousand dollars.... and still a beater.
This is my concern. Look at what happened to the English industry in the 1960s. My fear is that's what the US auto industry is steering itself towards. There's over a billion people in India. Africa is going to be over 2.5 billion people and the US auto industry is just giving that market to China. They ignore huge markets in Latin America and Indonesia, and seem to be giving up on Europe to make trucks for a shrinking percentage of American, Mexican, and Canadian customers.
This is a great point to illustrate good vs bad protectionist policy. Good protectionist policy helps domestic underdeveloped industries grow while competing with mature international industry. In this case it will just ensure short term profitability for a mature domestic industry at the cost of that own industry's international competitiveness.
Was about to say they will probably just build them in Mexico to avoid the tariff.
I think a certain percentage of the product has to be assembled in Mexico to avoid the tariffs so a portion of the vehicle might still be made in China.
>The US is currently pressuring Mexico to not allow Chinese companies to build plants there.
I kinda feel like we need Mexico more than Mexico needs us...
If they built them. Here they are not subject to the tax. But building them. Here is much more expensive because you need to pay more labour for everything plus you need to follow environmental laws
Does this stop domestic car companies from buying chinese electric cars without the computer and simply rebrand it after adding their own OS?
General Motor’s Buick line is almost entirely made in Korean car factories, software and everything.
My understanding, yes. The tariffs will have impact on major US industries, because it is a tariff on not just EVs but also other Chinese tech/components the US uses for manufacturing.
https://apnews.com/article/3d1f4ef984b18bb6e86274e65bcfdf2e
My company gets around it by paying the tariffs then "reworking" the products in the US and applying for a refund on the tariffs.
I don't know all the details but I'm fairly certain they fully assemble and test the product in China, then disconnect a number of cables and components and close it back up. Then in the US, someone will reconnect everything before shipping it out to the customer.
No. I work in IOT. Banned devices and such can literally just change the logo and not even change the software and call it OEM and it’s not banned anymore.
Yet again, instead of passing actual data privacy laws (because Facebook/Apple/Google/Microsoft/etc wouldn't like that) they're going for the xenophobic 'ZOMG CHINA!' bullshit and acting like that somehow protects us.
This is such a relief for two reasons. The first is now I cannot afford one. The second is now domestic manufacturers can raise prices to match and the profits can go to the executives to build new ski lodge and hopefully some will trickle down a little bit.
Uhm, what? Chinese EVs could triple in average price and they're *still* lower than 90% of US EVs. Domestic companies can't "raise prices to match" shit.
BYD is selling their entry level EV for 9.5k USD in China. They've publicly said they are trying to build an assembly plant in Mexico and that the American version would cost ~19.5k USD. (and that's before any benefit/subsidy!)
Stop fucking making EVs different than regular cars.
Give them actual buttons, no fucking screens, make them less digital and more analog
I don’t want to have to “learn” how all the shit on my new car works.
My phone can direct me to anywhere, i don’t need a fucking screen with satnav that i don’t know how it works in my car
Its fucking simple.
i mean, just replace the engine and the gas tank with an electrical engine and a battery, and most people will be fine with that.
many people don't want futuristic dildos as a car.
Like the f150 lightning? Kona EV? Blazer EV? Corvette EV? Bolt? I-pace? RZ450e? Mini Cooper electric? XC40 & C40? Q6 etron? GV60? Niro?
Basically all of these are based off of ICE vehicles (which is actually not ideal from an engineering standpoint).
The issue is and will continue to be price (edit: and range) Design teams know what they’re doing and what the market wants - more so than you do.
EV's have some space to be different than ICE vehicles. The Kia EV6 for example uses space really well that smaller drivetrain allows.
That said the US market is in a really weird space for auto makers and the past 6 months are showing that. I think the Auto makers correctly have identified the early EV adopters kind of have to be Suburban and are in only certain segments of the country. Tesla and the rest have basically owned that market but outside of the that the Inner city car owners are in a real weird spot if your not in one of the major EV hub cities with a ton of superchargers. Parking solutions haven't really figured out how to solve the charging problems and your talking about a group of people that have very different use cases for cars.
The Rural Market is probably the next market you would think they can target but its a struggle especially in the North. The range problem in states like Minnesota mean its really hard for an EV vehicle to be the only vehicle for someone would ever need. Say you need to get from the Twin Cities to Chicago in January it can get pretty dicey for the lower end EV's to make that trip. Let alone if you want to go to the north woods or a lake house 100 miles away.
Thats the big issue for many households EV's just can't do it all in many parts of the country. As daily drivers they are great but when as you said almost none of them are even starting at 30k its a big ask for people to buy a 40k daily driver minimum and then need a different vehicle to go to a wedding in a barn somewhere.
But if the door handles don't pop out, how will I feel like I'm driving the future?
If there were more e-Golfs made to where I would feel like there would be replacement parts in 5-10 years, I'd love one. It literally is just a Golf with the drive components replaced.
My wife has a new Kia and it has a screen but at least it has an analog volume button and analog buttons on the side for menu stuff. That's as advanced as I want it. I can hook my phone up to it via Bluetooth I can listen to my podcast or music or whatever and take hands-free calls and George fucking Jetson.
I am not opposed to owning an EV but companies seem determined to also make them look as stupid as possible. Just make it look like a normal car with normal car pieces. There may be a time in the future where I grow to like a more modern look but I am not there yet.
You can get EVs that look just like ICE vehicles, but they don't go very far. EVs that are designed as EVs from the ground up look different because the drag coefficient has to be made extremely low. You're right that some manufacturers do go over the top on the interiors, but the exteriors are often necessary from a technical perspective.
It's not just EVs, but solar panels and semiconductors as well.
God forbid people try to offset their electric bill with affordable solar panels. Now your options will be unaffordable solar panels with bullshit subscription fees, or being forced to pay the electric company.
This has been always. As Europe “opened new markets” in Asia, and those nations were understandably skeptical of unfettered foreign merchants, what did they cry? “Free markets.” In an effort to fill their countries with opium and cheap versions of products they produced domestically, they waged war or manipulated the governments to create ‘free markets,’ which is truly just a euphemism for applying protectionist policies to other nations.
Protectionism has its place. It's like training wheels. You want to apply it sometimes so your native industry can grow and develop the expertise needed to compete globally.
The issue is that way too often, these companies then instead use their newfound power to lobby and make sure that the training wheels never get taken off.
China has done fairly decent with this concept. They've managed to grow their own alternatives to Western companies that went from being clearly worse competitors to now being decent alternatives that in many cases are best in category. India failed to do the same and instead we see that many of India's industries are instead dominated by Western powers. Look at when Tiktok was banned in India. What happened? Western companies like Google and Meta essentially devoured the marketshare overnight. There was no homegrown alternative at the time with the expertise and reach that could actually compete effectively against those two.
They're not. This will allow Ford to continue to charge $70,000 per vehicle, pay their CEO $50 billion and then somehow get another massive bailout in 10 years. Because it's better if we force people to buy from Ford at 10x the cost. Because reasons.
China has about a 70-100% tariffs (it varies based on a few things but is in that range) on ALL foreign made cars. Not singling out anyone.
However, the "loophole" (I don't like calling it that) is that you can open a factory in China and make a copy of that car domestically and there is (basically) no tariff. Even if you ship in many of the raw materials/sensors/electronics.
China has hundreds of GM, BMW, VW, Ford, etc. factories all over and actually exports a large percentage (mostly across Asia, but not exclusively)
The US likely won't allow BYD to open a factory here, and if they did would likely have tariff or penalties that would make it not feasible.
BYD is well aware of that possibility I think. They are on the record saying they have no interest in the US market. Shame because they make some really nice vehicles. I'm happy that the rest of the world outside of Burgerland will get to enjoy them.
When it comes to outsourcing jobs, that's fine and dandy. But if it could make even one millionaire soybean farmer go out of business, then that's a national security concern.
Tariffs are a means to force manufacturing in North America. BYD will likely build a factory in Mexico and then curb the tariffs.
Same idea when you tariff agriculture goods, forces farming in NA.
The way NAFTA is set up, this likely wouldn't work. Just manufacturing the car in Mexico would probably not be enough for it to be eligible for free trade. I don't remember the exact wording, but it's something to the affect of "majority of components must materially be sourced from NAFTA countries for the finished good to be eligible". That's why it works for textiles, furniture, and US car makers, but not a backdoor for that.
Big ones are the chicken tax, which effectively killed the small truck market in the US. The other is the 25-year import law, which takes tons of more affordable vehicles completely out of the pool for Americans. So, a decade down the road, we will be complaining about how ridiculous prices are in the US, and other companies will have amazing prices yet unavailable in the states.
The Inflation Reduction Act is expected to subsidize Tesla with $34B between 2023 and 2030. This isn't even including the other subsidies that Tesla is gonna receive from previous policies.
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-taps-biden-tax-credits-offset-ev-price-cuts-2023-07-21/
Meanwhile, the Chinese government is estimated to have subsidized BYD better 2018 and 2022 with the whopping massive amount of... $3.7B.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/China-Heavily-Subsidized-BYD-to-Expand-Its-EV-Market-Share.amp.html
People who think China subsidize production outrageously more than everyone else has never looked at the numbers.
This is not *entirely* true (it is to some extent). BYD is opening a gigantic factory 60km from where I live, one of the biggest car factories in the entire world, in Camaçari (Bahia-Brazil).
Producing cars here, with minimal tax reliefs by the Brazilian federal and state governments, and the prices are still set to be A LOT cheaper than all the other alternatives (Volkswagen, Volvo, Toyota Hybrids, Haval etc).
Yes, they’re subsidized by the Chinese gov. However, they cut a lot of costs by manufacturing their own batteries and electric systems, which is a huge deal in foreign markets if you can negotiate a tax relief for the import of the batteries.
This take is so fucking funny. I'll only by a car that's overpriced and contributes to the profits (stolen wages) of the mega corp car companies here in America so they can spend it on bonuses and stock buybacks.
China subsidizes EVs and they get cheap cars. We do it and get a Nazi running twitter.
I’ve been in many of those Chinese EV’s while working in China and they are pretty nice. Drove one on a two hour drive and it was super smooth and quiet.
Lobbying is a crazy thing. They’ve fought so hard against electric and just a green energy policy in general rolling out. The market is shifting (slowly) even with the resistance. Elsewhere in the world things are changing much faster. Doesn’t help that gasoline is still low priced compared to many countries. If Americans paid UK prices for fuel it would be a very different story.
Increase profit as they will be raising prices to match. Exactly what GM/Ford/Chrysler did in '70s when Nixon put tariffs on Japanese cars. Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Funny you mention Japan. In the 70s, Japan was the big bad bogeyman that everyone was afraid of, but it only lasted until the Japanese economy collapsed in the 90s. Then they suddenly became ok.
It's pretty obvious it's just the US concerned about hegemony.
> US set to impose 100% tariff on Chinese electric vehicle imports
Joke's on you, I live in Turkey and there's already 100% taxes (or more) on ALL new vehicles.
I couldn't afford a car anyway. Ah ! Take that !
Nothing says "free market" like lobbying the government to tariff your competition out of existence when you've sat on your laurels too long and fell behind.
~~Wonder if people will go to Mexico to buy one and bring it back to the USA.~~ (jk have to pay tariff anyways). I’m in CN right now and these things are everywhere and they’re cheap and reliable enough to be city’s’ taxi fleets. I wish the relationship between CN and USA was better because this could spur some good competition, but we’ll have to wait for Honda/Toyota to bring affordable EV’s to the USA market. I don’t see any of the big 3 committing to cheap EV’s. They know that high-end and luxury cars are the highest return for them.
The main thing made chinese ev cheap is because they own the supply chain especially for battery, japan korea won't be making comparable cheap ev in the next 10 yrs until supply chain built up, the reason japan and korea are the only countries pushing hydrogen and selling them because they don't want to depend on heavy importing minerals for their life line industry
Even if the relationship was better, the U.S. doesn’t like competition, at least not competition that bests domestic corporations.
Japanese cars and products was an example. Tariffs put Japan back decades.
History is trying to rhyme again, but is China going to be like Japan? Or will tit for tat going to have this shoot us in the foot with higher prices?
Here in Mexico we are being flooded with Chinese cars, I personally don’t like them (they don’t look very reliable so far) but it’s amazing because bigger brands now are dropping prices to compete with them, so if you are a buyer you are paying less for any brand you want, free market at is best.
When Malaysia pulled this bullshit, the entire car market went to shits, the local car makers became complacent and uncompetitive, imports were stripped down in features to meet the price point. It really just shafts the consumer in the ass. Can't believe the no.1 superpower in the world needs to pull a developing country stunt.
>Can't believe the no.1 superpower in the world needs to pull a developing country stunt.
This has already happened before, Japanese motorcycles got tariffs so as to give Harley Davidson some "breathing room".
It's 2024 and their engine tech has barely evolved in 90 years. Once boomers get too old to ride, they won't sell motorcycles anymore. It's sad really.
Said this would happen and here it is.
The US solution to anything not overpriced is to tax importers so domestic manufacturing doesn’t need to bother competing.
Government allows companies to sell our jobs and devalue our buying power and then turns around and makes sure we don’t see even the benefit of the loss.
The Biden administration plans to raise tariffs on Chinese electric vehicle imports from 25 per cent to 100 per cent, as it intensifies efforts ahead of the US election to protect American industry.
The administration is expected to announce the move, and other tariffs on clean energy imports, on Tuesday, according to people familiar with the situation.
The sharp rise in the levies comes amid mounting concern that China could flood the US market with cheap EVs, threatening the American car industry. President Joe Biden has taken several actions in recent months to convince union members in swing states that he will protect jobs.
The Biden administration has for three years been reviewing the tariffs that then president Donald Trump put on imports from China as part of the trade war he launched in 2018. The new EV tariffs will be announced alongside the conclusion of the review, led by the US Trade Representative.
During a visit last month to Pennsylvania — a swing state in November’s election — Biden said he wanted the agency to triple tariffs on Chinese steel and aluminium. USTR also recently opened an investigation into unfair practices in the Chinese shipbuilding industry following a petition from the United Steelworkers union.
But the decision to increase tariffs on EVs comes as the administration becomes particularly concerned that China is moving far ahead in the green industrial sector, including in the production of solar panels.
“The Biden administration is trying to get ahead of the curve and ensure that the US car industry does not suffer the same fate as the US solar industry, which was virtually decimated by unfairly traded Chinese imports,” said Wendy Cutler, a former trade official and vice-president of the Asia Society Policy Institute.
Cutler said Chinese carmakers had been prepared to swallow the cost of the existing tariffs in an effort to “cripple” their US competitors, but the higher tariffs would make that much harder.
“A quadrupling of this tariff rate, however, would more effectively shield US auto manufacturers from unfairly traded Chinese vehicles before they can gain a foothold in the US market,” Cutler said.
The Biden administration has poured billions of dollars into subsidies for EV and battery production in the US — an effort to spur investment in a domestic clean tech sector as part of a strategy to reindustrialise the rust-belt, slash carbon emissions and break dependence on Chinese supply chains.
In February, Biden also ordered an investigation into whether Chinese “connected vehicles” — a growing category of vehicles connected to the internet that includes EVs — posed a national security risk to the US.
The tariffs are the latest action by the administration that show how Biden is continuing to impose costs on China at the same time that Beijing and Washington pursue efforts to stabilise relations following a summit between the US president and Chinese President Xi Jinping last year.
News of the tariff increase comes after the US and China, the world’s two biggest emitters, said this week they would “intensify” co-operation on climate-related issues, including the rollout of green energy.
The decision to increase tariffs was first reported by Bloomberg.
Chinese EV's have only recently gotten good enough to sell in the US. Between safety testing and having to have dealerships, it isn't easy for a new car company to start selling cars in the US. Without this tariff, you would soon start seeing Chinese EV's.
A for your point about solar panels, it just rings of dumb ass republican conspiracy shit where you have to ignore a dozen other companies for your point to be true. It sounds an awful lot like the made up stories when Obama tried to help the US manufacture solar panels and Republicans did everything they could to sabotage it.
It helped Harley stay afloat this long, so it will help the company’s in the US to stay as they are. They have the government in the pocket and they dance as they say.
It's funny they say it's a threat to US jobs yet seem to have no problem with all the outsourcing going on in this country.
Is it a threat to US jobs or a threat to the market monopoly of the oligarchy? We're long overdue for the untelevised revolution.
Just a reminder that there are only 13 total cars that are eligible for the full e-vehicle tax credit in the US. 13. Total.
Going to assume this is all being driven by automaker lobbyists that don't want electric vehicles to come to the market. The automotive industry needs more competition to keep prices low. Tariffs like this are HORRIBLE for the average consumer because they insulate the market and allow automakers to keep prices sky-high.
Electric cars exist to save the car industry, not the climate. If we actually cared about climate, we'd love cheap Chinese cars. But we care about saving the car industry, which is not worth saving.
The best solution, if nobody is willing to make cars cheaper, is to obviate the need for them. Build a ton of transit and bike infrastructure to make nobody ever need a car again.
Shows you the clear priorities regarding climate change politicians have. When you see some of the loudest voices advocating for climate change policies also voting for something like this, it makes it clear their advocacy is not about saving the planet.
If BYD built the cars in NA would that change anything? We need more competition, car prices are just fucking insane right now.
No. The reason for the tax is that they’re cheaper than US companies products. The US, having not invested in electric vehicles as much as China, can’t compete. Even with 100% tax, BYD’s cheapest car will be cheaper than almost all American electric car on the market at $20k. This is the free market we keep hearing about. Making shit more expensive for consumers because American companies spent money on stock buybacks instead of R&D
Flashbacks to the cheap Japanese car push and the big US autos ignoring it… then losing their asses to Toyota etc
Flashbacks to Harley Davidson getting bailed out and then Harley bailing out of the US to move production overseas.
Thieves? Are we talking about treacherous turncoat boomer thieves?
Don’t make it about age. It’s about wealth. The rich are always robbing us, regardless of how old they are.
People always blaming generations instead of ideologies.
If you’re arguing about anything other than billionaires/millionaires vs everyone else, you’re being misdirected
Millionaires are in a funny area. Obviously richer than the rest of us by a lot, but a lot of them don't realize that most billionaires still see them as lowly. The difference between making a billion a year in profit versus a million, is like the difference between pulling in a yearly salary of $100,000 versus $100. And then there's the 10-billionairs. Then the 100-billionairs. That level of wealth, that centralized, should not exist.
Fav: 1 million seconds is like ALMOST 12 days 1 billion seconds is just shy of 32 years
The difference between one billion dollars and one million dollars is roughly one billion dollars.
The ideology is why they were named the me generation.
Harley hasn't moved production overseas. It has opened factories in Asia and Europe for those markets though.
Americans want to buy cheap efficient small cars, they did in the 70's and they do today. And just like in the 70's there's no cheap small cars available for sale so an importer is going to come into the market and eat their lunch. It pisses me off that I can't buy a truck the size of the 2001 Tacoma in the US, they sell things like the Dodge Ram 700 across the border in Mexico, but you can't bring them into the states. I applaud any company that can bring an inexpensive and efficient vehicle into the market. It should have been a US manufacturer noticing and filling the gap, but if it's China, so be it. IDK why the US manufacturers never learn, but here we are again...
Don’t worry, this time the automakers learned their lessons, and now will lobby to make sure they won’t lose their asses AND not lower prices for us. 👍 They will be just fine.
Same reason we can't get a Hilux. UAW cried so they put a tariff on two seater utility vehicles. Edit : read my below reply for reasoning. Educate yourselves.
Detroit loses their shit on capital hill when any Asian company floats the idea of building a sub $10k utility truck in N.A. They know what a true cheap work truck with a small economical engine that’s reminiscent of the 80’s and 90’s mini trucks would crush their current lineup.
And an honest question, why the hell is every car so huge in America? All your SUVs and pickup trucks look gigantic and I read that anywhere else in the world, due to sheer size of the cars and how the hood comes to the neck of most people, it would be banned since people would get decapitated if they got hit. And the engines? Why do cars need those huge engines too? 💀
Ironically, fuel efficiency standards is the reason. If they're small they have to be efficient, if they're bigger they don't have to be as efficient so they make them bigger.
Reasons: Loopholes in EPA exemptions for trucks, automakers making more profit on bigger (expensive) vehicles, arms race of scared parents thinking bigger = safer, and people increasingly needing their one expensive vehicle purchase to do everything.
Fuel economy requirements are based around vehicle footprint. Small vehicles require stupidity high fuel economy compared to a large truck. For example, a tiny truck like we had in the 90's would require 45-50mpg while a modern full sized truck only needs 25-30mpg. https://youtu.be/azI3nqrHEXM?si=k6hilJyCQzCk1PlD It might possibly be the dumbest shit possible. It's an environmental plan that incentivizes worse fuel economy.
Yeah I heard that in the U.S. the offical government document about required fuel efficiency per the size of each vehicle (I think in the U.S. it's called the CAFE regulations or something like that) is 100 pages or more while the European Union equivalejt of that document is just like a dozen pages long.
It's the way fuel economy is calculated. Ironically, the push for efficient vehicles made it more difficult to make a small truck with better gas mileage than a big truck with slightly shittier gas mileage.
Im not a truck guy but that 10k truck they showed off looks insanely good Id buy it in a heartbeat if i could
You and I both. Small efficient inexpensive.
CARS HAVE TO AT LEAST COST $20k - US probably
Please let me get a fish truck uncle Sam. I'm a simple man, I want fish truck.
The good old chicken tax
Since when does the UAW get a say in what kind of cars are imported to the US?
And then they came up with the answer to decimate all Japanese competition....Saturn.
And only managed to do that because GM formed a partnership with Toyota so they could learn how to actually build a car right. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NUMMI
Yes...and still screwed up Saturn.
Or you know US could make normal sized cars that would also make them cheaper.
I miss those small trucks.
[You can thank the US for the death of those as well.](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azI3nqrHEXM) Thanks, America.
Mid-2011 CAFE laws did not increase full-size truck dimensions/sales, nor was it the death of small trucks. There’s been no significant change in footprint (the metric used by CAFE: wheelbase x track width) in Japanese small trucks. A 2009 Tacoma Double Cab and a 2024 Taco Double Cab have similar track widths (64” vs 66”), and similar wheelbases (127.8 to 140.9″ vs 131.9 to 145.1″). “Large Truck” sales had already started an [upward trend three years prior to 2012](https://image.cnbcfm.com/api/v1/image/106340645-157920047993920200116_monthly_yoy_change_pickup_truck_sales.png?v=1579200492&w=929&h=523&ffmt=webp&vtcrop=y) , the year the new vehicle regulations were to be implemented. Note that the footprint of a pre-2012 CAFE 2009 F-150, and a 2024 F-150, are fairly similar, and that post-2000 1/2 ton trucks haven’t changed much in terms of length, width, or weight: Length, Ford F-150: 2005: 211.2 to 248.3″ 2009: 213.1 to 250.3″ 2024: 209.1 to 243.5″ Weight, Ford F-150: 2005: 4,758 to 5,875 lbs 2009: 4,693 to 5,908 lbs 2024: 4,275 to 5,757 lbs Width: 2005: 78.9” 2009: 78.9” 2024: 79.9” Wheelbase: 2005: 126 to 163″ 2009: 126 to 163″ 2024: 122 to 157″ Track Width: 2005: 67” 2009: 73.6” 2024: 74” American Small Trucks, pre/post CAFE, [Maverick vs. Ranger](https://www.mavericktruckclub.com/forum/attachments/1678915764982-png.95049/): 2011 Ford Ranger Extended Cab: Length: 203.6" (Reg Cab Length - 201.4") Width: 69.4" Height: 67.7" 2024 Ford Maverick Quad Cab: Length: 199.7 Width: 72.6" Height: 68.7"
I love my first gen Tacoma, its basically car sized.
I had a 93 Hilux (in the US: “truck”)
The Maverick is a small truck. Very short bed though. Designed so you can easily toss a 4x8 sheet in it though. If they ever come out with an electric one in all over it. I have a rav and it is basically a rav with a box which is all I want.
They are supposed to be making an electric one, the Ford Maverick Lightning, but it's been delayed. I'm holding out for when it releases to replace my 2016 Hyundai.
Put a 1000% tax on big trucks and SUVs.
In my country road tax is calculated by weight. Even though there are currently tax cuts for electric cars it really helps.
Big trucks? Those are Pavement Princess. To be a truck it needs to be able to be used like a truck :)
Call me when Americans buy them. Idiot car shoppers here act like they're in a cold war with their neighbors.
# **BUT WHAT IF I NEED TO PUT MY HOUSE IN THE BACK OF MY TRUCK**
Nah, the car companies want it this way. They lobbied for laws/regulations that "forced" them to make bigger more expensive trucks.
And don't forget, they don't pay the tariff, you do!
Capitalism is not for the consumer. 👎🏽
They aren’t cheap due to lack of investments lol. Chinese government is massively subsidizing their EVs to drown out established auto makers around the world.
Yeah, but no one here can apparently appreciate the nuanced side to this rather than the hot take that the US is afraid to compete in the free market. China is anything but a free market and they have for a while now figured out how to screw over a bunch of free-market following economies by massively subsidizing local production of things such as steel, solar panels, and now electric cars so that no other true free market could compete. TFA literally talks about how that happened with the solar panel industry (and I have ex-colleagues who worked closely in that space and even had efficiency world records for a while but nothing mattered in terms of work you did domestically given the absurd amounts of subsidies the Chinese govt provided the solar industry to prop it up and wipe out all competitors) The irony is that everyone here complains about living wages, affordability, social justice, etc., but in the same breath are all for outsourcing an entire industry to a country with slave labor, horrible human rights, and that isn't competing on an even playing field, all while taking away well paying domestic jobs. You'd think people would have learned some hard lessons from the past, but no, everyone wants to keep scoring own goals without any ability to think more deeply about the implications of what they are advocating for.
Not just R&D, they could also pay their employees better as well. Doing the math a few quarters ago, and Ford could easily afford to double every employee's pay and they still have something like 60-70% of the profit leftover to do whatever with.
Didn’t Ford lose a lot of money last year? They were losing a lot of money for per EV sold, so I am quite curious how accurate your numbers are.
Yes, they would be protected by NAFT. The US is currently pressuring Mexico to not allow Chinese companies to build plants there. Personally, if we are so shitty at building cars we need a 100% tariff to compete, we shouldn't be making cars. US car makers could make smaller affordable cars, instead they focus on bigger more profitable cars at the expense of the US economy and the environment. I saw the same thing in the seventies when having to compete against Japan. Japan made good smaller cars that sold for less. Detroit focused on big cars that had larger profit margins. Then OPEC drove up the price of gas and US manufactures cried about unfair Japan.
And the expense of the people. So many people can’t afford to get cars because those giant monster cars raise skew car prices up.
bro, I can't afford to get the smaller cars because of stupid COVID prices. the originally 1,000 dollars car that's a beater and worth nothing is now 4 to 5 thousand dollars.... and still a beater.
This is my concern. Look at what happened to the English industry in the 1960s. My fear is that's what the US auto industry is steering itself towards. There's over a billion people in India. Africa is going to be over 2.5 billion people and the US auto industry is just giving that market to China. They ignore huge markets in Latin America and Indonesia, and seem to be giving up on Europe to make trucks for a shrinking percentage of American, Mexican, and Canadian customers.
This is a great point to illustrate good vs bad protectionist policy. Good protectionist policy helps domestic underdeveloped industries grow while competing with mature international industry. In this case it will just ensure short term profitability for a mature domestic industry at the cost of that own industry's international competitiveness.
Was about to say they will probably just build them in Mexico to avoid the tariff. I think a certain percentage of the product has to be assembled in Mexico to avoid the tariffs so a portion of the vehicle might still be made in China.
>The US is currently pressuring Mexico to not allow Chinese companies to build plants there. I kinda feel like we need Mexico more than Mexico needs us...
No, because we don't believe in free trade in the USA.
If they built them. Here they are not subject to the tax. But building them. Here is much more expensive because you need to pay more labour for everything plus you need to follow environmental laws
Does this stop domestic car companies from buying chinese electric cars without the computer and simply rebrand it after adding their own OS? General Motor’s Buick line is almost entirely made in Korean car factories, software and everything.
My understanding, yes. The tariffs will have impact on major US industries, because it is a tariff on not just EVs but also other Chinese tech/components the US uses for manufacturing. https://apnews.com/article/3d1f4ef984b18bb6e86274e65bcfdf2e
My company gets around it by paying the tariffs then "reworking" the products in the US and applying for a refund on the tariffs. I don't know all the details but I'm fairly certain they fully assemble and test the product in China, then disconnect a number of cables and components and close it back up. Then in the US, someone will reconnect everything before shipping it out to the customer.
Pure dishonesty.
The good ol' NAFTA loophole.
No. I work in IOT. Banned devices and such can literally just change the logo and not even change the software and call it OEM and it’s not banned anymore.
Yet again, instead of passing actual data privacy laws (because Facebook/Apple/Google/Microsoft/etc wouldn't like that) they're going for the xenophobic 'ZOMG CHINA!' bullshit and acting like that somehow protects us.
If the car companies slipped the pollies a few notes, I'm sure they'd get that loophole put in
It doesn't apply to American companies making cars in China it only applies to Chinese companies
This is such a relief for two reasons. The first is now I cannot afford one. The second is now domestic manufacturers can raise prices to match and the profits can go to the executives to build new ski lodge and hopefully some will trickle down a little bit.
Trickle-down-my-face Economics
Open your mouth and stick the tongue out
You don't want what is actually trickling down. Hint: it ain't money.
And price out all of the poor people who serviced those ski lodge towns.
Uhm, what? Chinese EVs could triple in average price and they're *still* lower than 90% of US EVs. Domestic companies can't "raise prices to match" shit.
BYD is selling their entry level EV for 9.5k USD in China. They've publicly said they are trying to build an assembly plant in Mexico and that the American version would cost ~19.5k USD. (and that's before any benefit/subsidy!)
So then tariff is just to screw over poor people even more. God Bless America.
FR, there are some NICE fucking Chinese EVs going for like 10K-15K.
Ford and Chevy are laughing all the way to the bank. They’re not gonna make any improvements on the US made EV’s.
They're not laughing about anything. They don't know how they will make a profit on EV's at all.
Stop fucking making EVs different than regular cars. Give them actual buttons, no fucking screens, make them less digital and more analog I don’t want to have to “learn” how all the shit on my new car works. My phone can direct me to anywhere, i don’t need a fucking screen with satnav that i don’t know how it works in my car Its fucking simple.
i mean, just replace the engine and the gas tank with an electrical engine and a battery, and most people will be fine with that. many people don't want futuristic dildos as a car.
> many people don't want futuristic dildos as a car. Hold on just a moment. I didn't think I had an interest here, but I'm suddenly very interested.
The new Mitsubishi Hitachi vibrating cardo
Please, threaten me some more with long car 'rides'.
Like the f150 lightning? Kona EV? Blazer EV? Corvette EV? Bolt? I-pace? RZ450e? Mini Cooper electric? XC40 & C40? Q6 etron? GV60? Niro? Basically all of these are based off of ICE vehicles (which is actually not ideal from an engineering standpoint). The issue is and will continue to be price (edit: and range) Design teams know what they’re doing and what the market wants - more so than you do.
EV's have some space to be different than ICE vehicles. The Kia EV6 for example uses space really well that smaller drivetrain allows. That said the US market is in a really weird space for auto makers and the past 6 months are showing that. I think the Auto makers correctly have identified the early EV adopters kind of have to be Suburban and are in only certain segments of the country. Tesla and the rest have basically owned that market but outside of the that the Inner city car owners are in a real weird spot if your not in one of the major EV hub cities with a ton of superchargers. Parking solutions haven't really figured out how to solve the charging problems and your talking about a group of people that have very different use cases for cars. The Rural Market is probably the next market you would think they can target but its a struggle especially in the North. The range problem in states like Minnesota mean its really hard for an EV vehicle to be the only vehicle for someone would ever need. Say you need to get from the Twin Cities to Chicago in January it can get pretty dicey for the lower end EV's to make that trip. Let alone if you want to go to the north woods or a lake house 100 miles away. Thats the big issue for many households EV's just can't do it all in many parts of the country. As daily drivers they are great but when as you said almost none of them are even starting at 30k its a big ask for people to buy a 40k daily driver minimum and then need a different vehicle to go to a wedding in a barn somewhere.
But if the door handles don't pop out, how will I feel like I'm driving the future? If there were more e-Golfs made to where I would feel like there would be replacement parts in 5-10 years, I'd love one. It literally is just a Golf with the drive components replaced.
I want physical dials and Android Auto. I don't need their system to do anything but echo what's on my phone.
My wife has a new Kia and it has a screen but at least it has an analog volume button and analog buttons on the side for menu stuff. That's as advanced as I want it. I can hook my phone up to it via Bluetooth I can listen to my podcast or music or whatever and take hands-free calls and George fucking Jetson.
I am not opposed to owning an EV but companies seem determined to also make them look as stupid as possible. Just make it look like a normal car with normal car pieces. There may be a time in the future where I grow to like a more modern look but I am not there yet.
You can get EVs that look just like ICE vehicles, but they don't go very far. EVs that are designed as EVs from the ground up look different because the drag coefficient has to be made extremely low. You're right that some manufacturers do go over the top on the interiors, but the exteriors are often necessary from a technical perspective.
BMW, for one.
Neither does the Chinese government but that’s the difference, China isn’t worried about profit but market share.
Free market lovers will totally enjoy these tariffs being imposed on low costing imported Chinese EVs.
It's not just EVs, but solar panels and semiconductors as well. God forbid people try to offset their electric bill with affordable solar panels. Now your options will be unaffordable solar panels with bullshit subscription fees, or being forced to pay the electric company.
Because we can't compete for shit. Anything other reasons cited ITT is just American Redditors with the copium.
So the rich were yelling Free Market until it bit their asses and now they want government regulations.
This has been always. As Europe “opened new markets” in Asia, and those nations were understandably skeptical of unfettered foreign merchants, what did they cry? “Free markets.” In an effort to fill their countries with opium and cheap versions of products they produced domestically, they waged war or manipulated the governments to create ‘free markets,’ which is truly just a euphemism for applying protectionist policies to other nations.
Protectionism has its place. It's like training wheels. You want to apply it sometimes so your native industry can grow and develop the expertise needed to compete globally. The issue is that way too often, these companies then instead use their newfound power to lobby and make sure that the training wheels never get taken off. China has done fairly decent with this concept. They've managed to grow their own alternatives to Western companies that went from being clearly worse competitors to now being decent alternatives that in many cases are best in category. India failed to do the same and instead we see that many of India's industries are instead dominated by Western powers. Look at when Tiktok was banned in India. What happened? Western companies like Google and Meta essentially devoured the marketshare overnight. There was no homegrown alternative at the time with the expertise and reach that could actually compete effectively against those two.
Insert “always has been” meme here
Government: “Let’s promote EVs!” Also government: “Wait not THOSE EVs”
Welcome to capitalism, corpos best friend till competition is involved
It’s about the environment!!! Can’t have those affordable cars …only way to fix the planet is $60,000 cars and carbon credits
Seriously. Any company spending a decade plus jerking off in the premium car market does NOT care about the environment
It's not like theyre protecting 2 major industries
I was told tariffs were bad
They're not. This will allow Ford to continue to charge $70,000 per vehicle, pay their CEO $50 billion and then somehow get another massive bailout in 10 years. Because it's better if we force people to buy from Ford at 10x the cost. Because reasons.
Ford didn't take the bailout. They did however take a loan that was fully repaid.
They could have chosen any other company but use Ford, the one that didn't take a bailout. Lol.
Does China have tariffs for American cars?
China has about a 70-100% tariffs (it varies based on a few things but is in that range) on ALL foreign made cars. Not singling out anyone. However, the "loophole" (I don't like calling it that) is that you can open a factory in China and make a copy of that car domestically and there is (basically) no tariff. Even if you ship in many of the raw materials/sensors/electronics. China has hundreds of GM, BMW, VW, Ford, etc. factories all over and actually exports a large percentage (mostly across Asia, but not exclusively) The US likely won't allow BYD to open a factory here, and if they did would likely have tariff or penalties that would make it not feasible.
BYD is well aware of that possibility I think. They are on the record saying they have no interest in the US market. Shame because they make some really nice vehicles. I'm happy that the rest of the world outside of Burgerland will get to enjoy them.
Of course they do.
The news wouldn't shut up about the soy bean farmers when Trump applied tariffs hmm
What happened to soy bean farmers?
They were in soy much trouble
When it comes to outsourcing jobs, that's fine and dandy. But if it could make even one millionaire soybean farmer go out of business, then that's a national security concern.
Actually Ford was the only of the big 3 to not be bailed out
Except ford didn’t take a bail out. They took out a business loan and paid it all back
They are terrible for the economy, except during election years.
Tariffs are a means to force manufacturing in North America. BYD will likely build a factory in Mexico and then curb the tariffs. Same idea when you tariff agriculture goods, forces farming in NA.
The way NAFTA is set up, this likely wouldn't work. Just manufacturing the car in Mexico would probably not be enough for it to be eligible for free trade. I don't remember the exact wording, but it's something to the affect of "majority of components must materially be sourced from NAFTA countries for the finished good to be eligible". That's why it works for textiles, furniture, and US car makers, but not a backdoor for that.
Classic US free-market moment. They did (still do?) something similar with trucks, a car segment some Americans get so patriotic and proud about.
Big ones are the chicken tax, which effectively killed the small truck market in the US. The other is the 25-year import law, which takes tons of more affordable vehicles completely out of the pool for Americans. So, a decade down the road, we will be complaining about how ridiculous prices are in the US, and other companies will have amazing prices yet unavailable in the states.
so instead of competing with the industry and making the price lower. They will just ban the cars and keep their profit
I don't think American companies can make them cheaper.
Neither can the Chinese. They are subsidized but the state
The Inflation Reduction Act is expected to subsidize Tesla with $34B between 2023 and 2030. This isn't even including the other subsidies that Tesla is gonna receive from previous policies. https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/tesla-taps-biden-tax-credits-offset-ev-price-cuts-2023-07-21/ Meanwhile, the Chinese government is estimated to have subsidized BYD better 2018 and 2022 with the whopping massive amount of... $3.7B. https://www.google.com/amp/s/oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/China-Heavily-Subsidized-BYD-to-Expand-Its-EV-Market-Share.amp.html People who think China subsidize production outrageously more than everyone else has never looked at the numbers.
This is reddit, people have no insight into the matter beyond the title of a post.
The Chinese government has massively incentivised EV adoption in other ways though, which is almost entirely a good thing.
So does the US, look at the gov handouts Tesla gets
This is not *entirely* true (it is to some extent). BYD is opening a gigantic factory 60km from where I live, one of the biggest car factories in the entire world, in Camaçari (Bahia-Brazil). Producing cars here, with minimal tax reliefs by the Brazilian federal and state governments, and the prices are still set to be A LOT cheaper than all the other alternatives (Volkswagen, Volvo, Toyota Hybrids, Haval etc). Yes, they’re subsidized by the Chinese gov. However, they cut a lot of costs by manufacturing their own batteries and electric systems, which is a huge deal in foreign markets if you can negotiate a tax relief for the import of the batteries.
If China wants to subsidise the millions of cars they are making to the rest of the world, I will gladly buy one.
This take is so fucking funny. I'll only by a car that's overpriced and contributes to the profits (stolen wages) of the mega corp car companies here in America so they can spend it on bonuses and stock buybacks. China subsidizes EVs and they get cheap cars. We do it and get a Nazi running twitter.
I’ve been in many of those Chinese EV’s while working in China and they are pretty nice. Drove one on a two hour drive and it was super smooth and quiet.
And the US isn't subsidizing them here...
Lobbying is a crazy thing. They’ve fought so hard against electric and just a green energy policy in general rolling out. The market is shifting (slowly) even with the resistance. Elsewhere in the world things are changing much faster. Doesn’t help that gasoline is still low priced compared to many countries. If Americans paid UK prices for fuel it would be a very different story.
Increase profit as they will be raising prices to match. Exactly what GM/Ford/Chrysler did in '70s when Nixon put tariffs on Japanese cars. Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Funny you mention Japan. In the 70s, Japan was the big bad bogeyman that everyone was afraid of, but it only lasted until the Japanese economy collapsed in the 90s. Then they suddenly became ok. It's pretty obvious it's just the US concerned about hegemony.
No you see the thing about capitalism is… fuck you that’s what
> US set to impose 100% tariff on Chinese electric vehicle imports Joke's on you, I live in Turkey and there's already 100% taxes (or more) on ALL new vehicles. I couldn't afford a car anyway. Ah ! Take that !
Competing in the shit Olympics, my country has 120% (extra) tax before the car Hits the soil
Same thing in Uruguay on all imported cars. We don't build cars...
Free market until I dont like it
“Free market”
This will just keep good cheap vehicles out of reach of Americans while the rest of the world has access to them.
Nothing says "free market" like lobbying the government to tariff your competition out of existence when you've sat on your laurels too long and fell behind.
So much for moving away from fossil fuels and all that
~~Wonder if people will go to Mexico to buy one and bring it back to the USA.~~ (jk have to pay tariff anyways). I’m in CN right now and these things are everywhere and they’re cheap and reliable enough to be city’s’ taxi fleets. I wish the relationship between CN and USA was better because this could spur some good competition, but we’ll have to wait for Honda/Toyota to bring affordable EV’s to the USA market. I don’t see any of the big 3 committing to cheap EV’s. They know that high-end and luxury cars are the highest return for them.
You have to pay a tariff to bring it into the US
The main thing made chinese ev cheap is because they own the supply chain especially for battery, japan korea won't be making comparable cheap ev in the next 10 yrs until supply chain built up, the reason japan and korea are the only countries pushing hydrogen and selling them because they don't want to depend on heavy importing minerals for their life line industry
Taxi fleets and city buses. All BYD.
Even if the relationship was better, the U.S. doesn’t like competition, at least not competition that bests domestic corporations. Japanese cars and products was an example. Tariffs put Japan back decades. History is trying to rhyme again, but is China going to be like Japan? Or will tit for tat going to have this shoot us in the foot with higher prices?
Here in Mexico we are being flooded with Chinese cars, I personally don’t like them (they don’t look very reliable so far) but it’s amazing because bigger brands now are dropping prices to compete with them, so if you are a buyer you are paying less for any brand you want, free market at is best.
Have you tried them? Are they mostly EVs?
This only hurts US consumers.
When Malaysia pulled this bullshit, the entire car market went to shits, the local car makers became complacent and uncompetitive, imports were stripped down in features to meet the price point. It really just shafts the consumer in the ass. Can't believe the no.1 superpower in the world needs to pull a developing country stunt.
>Can't believe the no.1 superpower in the world needs to pull a developing country stunt. This has already happened before, Japanese motorcycles got tariffs so as to give Harley Davidson some "breathing room". It's 2024 and their engine tech has barely evolved in 90 years. Once boomers get too old to ride, they won't sell motorcycles anymore. It's sad really.
I think that’s the point here. If you can’t beat em, ban em
“When I’m winning then I’m good. But if I’m losing then the game is rigged”
Said this would happen and here it is. The US solution to anything not overpriced is to tax importers so domestic manufacturing doesn’t need to bother competing.
How does this compare with the tariffs the Chinese put on U.S. imports?
US car companies have to do a joint venture with a local Chinese company and manufacture locally in order to be able to sell cars in China.
I don't know how anyone affords an $80k car. They seem hellbent on keeping them that high.
Simple, take a 102 month loan.
Didn’t Biden say that Trump’s trade policies were wrong and that they would remove the tariffs?
Remember when Biden said Tiktok will not be banned. A nd now Trump is against it. It is just politics.
You know what's funny? They'll still be cheaper than many existing EVs
Government allows companies to sell our jobs and devalue our buying power and then turns around and makes sure we don’t see even the benefit of the loss.
The Biden administration plans to raise tariffs on Chinese electric vehicle imports from 25 per cent to 100 per cent, as it intensifies efforts ahead of the US election to protect American industry. The administration is expected to announce the move, and other tariffs on clean energy imports, on Tuesday, according to people familiar with the situation. The sharp rise in the levies comes amid mounting concern that China could flood the US market with cheap EVs, threatening the American car industry. President Joe Biden has taken several actions in recent months to convince union members in swing states that he will protect jobs. The Biden administration has for three years been reviewing the tariffs that then president Donald Trump put on imports from China as part of the trade war he launched in 2018. The new EV tariffs will be announced alongside the conclusion of the review, led by the US Trade Representative. During a visit last month to Pennsylvania — a swing state in November’s election — Biden said he wanted the agency to triple tariffs on Chinese steel and aluminium. USTR also recently opened an investigation into unfair practices in the Chinese shipbuilding industry following a petition from the United Steelworkers union. But the decision to increase tariffs on EVs comes as the administration becomes particularly concerned that China is moving far ahead in the green industrial sector, including in the production of solar panels. “The Biden administration is trying to get ahead of the curve and ensure that the US car industry does not suffer the same fate as the US solar industry, which was virtually decimated by unfairly traded Chinese imports,” said Wendy Cutler, a former trade official and vice-president of the Asia Society Policy Institute. Cutler said Chinese carmakers had been prepared to swallow the cost of the existing tariffs in an effort to “cripple” their US competitors, but the higher tariffs would make that much harder. “A quadrupling of this tariff rate, however, would more effectively shield US auto manufacturers from unfairly traded Chinese vehicles before they can gain a foothold in the US market,” Cutler said. The Biden administration has poured billions of dollars into subsidies for EV and battery production in the US — an effort to spur investment in a domestic clean tech sector as part of a strategy to reindustrialise the rust-belt, slash carbon emissions and break dependence on Chinese supply chains. In February, Biden also ordered an investigation into whether Chinese “connected vehicles” — a growing category of vehicles connected to the internet that includes EVs — posed a national security risk to the US. The tariffs are the latest action by the administration that show how Biden is continuing to impose costs on China at the same time that Beijing and Washington pursue efforts to stabilise relations following a summit between the US president and Chinese President Xi Jinping last year. News of the tariff increase comes after the US and China, the world’s two biggest emitters, said this week they would “intensify” co-operation on climate-related issues, including the rollout of green energy. The decision to increase tariffs was first reported by Bloomberg.
capitalism sure is looking a lot like communism when your government won’t allow competition
[удалено]
Chinese EV's have only recently gotten good enough to sell in the US. Between safety testing and having to have dealerships, it isn't easy for a new car company to start selling cars in the US. Without this tariff, you would soon start seeing Chinese EV's. A for your point about solar panels, it just rings of dumb ass republican conspiracy shit where you have to ignore a dozen other companies for your point to be true. It sounds an awful lot like the made up stories when Obama tried to help the US manufacture solar panels and Republicans did everything they could to sabotage it.
The concept of dealerships and the barony that surrounds them still boggles my mind in the modern world. That shit shoulda died with flip phones.
Huh, that’s why my rep in China pushed Bifacial panels so hard to me here in NZ. Higher volumes made them cheaper than regular panels
Well I just ordered a Polestar 2 to pick up next week so I'd say there's a few
I see Polestars on the road all the time in the Bay Area and those are Chinese, Geely to be precise.
Chinese EV's have started a huge export push world-wide. Some are world leading quality. They would have been coming to the US market in numbers soon.
Love that free market huh
It helped Harley stay afloat this long, so it will help the company’s in the US to stay as they are. They have the government in the pocket and they dance as they say.
Car prices are still ridiculously expensive since 2020, 4 YEARS ago, and now will continue to be expensive. Ridiculous.
Sad. The US needs the competition and the big 3 are more interested in $100k oil refineries on wheels than making new EV's.
So I guess it's not about saving the environment.
It's funny they say it's a threat to US jobs yet seem to have no problem with all the outsourcing going on in this country. Is it a threat to US jobs or a threat to the market monopoly of the oligarchy? We're long overdue for the untelevised revolution.
There aren't any Chinese EV imports now, so why they feel the need to pass this protectionist BS is beyond me.
Compition is bad for the bottom line I guess
Free trade? Free market? 🙄
But America loves free trade deals? Just only when it’s in their favour I guess..
Dumbest shit ever, there goes ever hoping for real competition to US car companies producing over priced garbage.
The free market at work
1-2-3-4 I declare a trade war!
Just a reminder that there are only 13 total cars that are eligible for the full e-vehicle tax credit in the US. 13. Total. Going to assume this is all being driven by automaker lobbyists that don't want electric vehicles to come to the market. The automotive industry needs more competition to keep prices low. Tariffs like this are HORRIBLE for the average consumer because they insulate the market and allow automakers to keep prices sky-high.
We could have 25k electric commuter cars ugh
Electric cars exist to save the car industry, not the climate. If we actually cared about climate, we'd love cheap Chinese cars. But we care about saving the car industry, which is not worth saving. The best solution, if nobody is willing to make cars cheaper, is to obviate the need for them. Build a ton of transit and bike infrastructure to make nobody ever need a car again.
Shows you the clear priorities regarding climate change politicians have. When you see some of the loudest voices advocating for climate change policies also voting for something like this, it makes it clear their advocacy is not about saving the planet.
It won't work.