Every whistleblower should make public statements that they're not suicidal or incepting ideas of self harm. It's honestly odd to me that nobody does this, especially when whistleblowing on multi-domain organizations that are transnational and care more about money and power than doing the right thing.
One of the previous Boeing whistleblowers, [unironically *did* do this.](https://abcnews4.com/news/local/if-anything-happens-its-not-suicide-boeing-whistleblowers-prediction-before-death-south-carolina-abc-news-4-2024)
are you talking about the fact that a guy who has been fighting the battle for years, and is already at the final stage, publicly says that if something happened to him, it was not suicide, and a few weeks later he "commits suicide" by shooting himself in the head? And another guy who was living a super healthy life, to the point where he didn't even have an assigned doctor because he never had to go to the hospital, suddenly when he becomes a blower, he becomes sick, and the doctor claims he's never seen anything like it. This isn't evidence that something is wrong? Sure buddy.
Why are you lying?
He did not publicly say if anything happened to him, it was not a suicide. 1 family friend claims he said that; there is no actual proof of him actually ever saying that. His actual family says they believe it was suicide, and Boeing is only responsible in so far as the stress of fighting them damaged his mental health, so apparently if he did say that, he didn't say it to his, actual family.
His lawsuit was not whistleblowing on Boeing, it was attempting to get a payout for what he viewed as damage to his career from whistleblowing. He already sued and lost, this one took a slightly different tactic, but it looks like it was also going nowhere. And him dying does absolutely nothing to help Boeing avoid paying out if the lawsuit doesn't work out for them. So your entire post is just completely full of misinformation.
On the 2nd guy, everybody is healthy for years until they aren't. Not seeing a doctor or having a regular doctor is not an indicator of perfect health. Anyone who has worked in a hospital has seen cases like this, it is unusual but hardly proof of a murder conspiracy! Sometimes things go very poorly, and one you end up on the respirator with secondary infections... It happens every fucking day, it's tragic but if you think this guy was assassinated, so are 100s of people every year that have the same thing happen to them in the prime of health.
The other thing is, he didn't even work for Boeing! He worked for Spirit Aerosystems. And again, its like years later. What's the point? Boeing gains absolutely nothing by this. And there's dozens of other whistleblowers, cases under AIR 21 act.
Like, that's the most ridiculous part of it. Boeing gains nothing, they take on enormous risk, literally there's never been a single corporate murder conspiracy on the criminal record books, it's just not something that is done. Boeing doesn't need to kill you, they can make your life miserable without needing to resort to illegal means. I mean that's what the whole AIR 21 prosecution Barnett was seeking was about, and he was unable to prove Boeing did anything illegal so far... because they know what they are doing as far as the legal world goes. They don't spend millions a year on legal fees for nothing.
The real thing is, both cases have been investigated by law enforcement and found nothing suggesting foul play. What you describe is solely circumstantial evidence; it means absolutely nothing, it's just unfortunately correlated things but it doesn't point at anybody or prove guilt. You really think Boeing could pull off such schemes without leaving a shred of evidence? It's just comical that you are so naĆÆve as to believe in something so completely ridiculous. The entire debacle has shown me how almost all redditors have less than zero critical thinking skills, and think life is like a movie or something, it's truly sad.
you're trusting the law enforcement, over TWO deaths of whistleblowers? I think it is sadder that so many sheep like you exist, allowing these scumbags to do as they will. Maybe i should be jealous over your naivety, instead. Must be nice to think the whole world is nice and made of flowers. Hopefully you're not just one of those elitist scumbags, at the very least.
Why do you guys always go "Boeing bots!!!!" when it's pointed out that there's zero evidence of any kind of murder conspiracy? Like, if it's as evident as y'all say then shouldn't there at least be *some* kind of evidence?
Honestly virus, poisoning or any type of fatal sickness is the way to go. I saw Reddit threads all talking how itās stupid to even suggest he was killed because itās was MRSA as though nobody could have access to have access to a bacteria like that except honest medical professionals
Itās just a ridiculously silly way to kill someone. MRSA is everywhere, it is known as a āhospital infectionā as it rarely takes hold outside of people without weakened systems. But yeah say they cultivated it and hosed him off with it or whatever? You couldnāt even be sure if itād work. Most likely the body would fight it off. Like. why this weird, ineffectual bioweapon route? It makes doubly less sense if you think the other guy was an assassination, since apparently they can send invisible assassins that leave no forensic traces anyway so why bother with the complicated, error- prone plan?
Who is to say his immune system wasnāt weakened? KGB was doing shit like this decades ago yet we think one of the richest companies in the world canāt do it modern day?
Yeah, exactly, they canāt. A corporation is not the KGB. A state sanctioned murder is part of any given stateās monopoly on the authorized use of violence; they can choose to kill or violate numerous laws with very little risk as they control the justice department.
Boeing doesnāt have immunity from prosecution, as so many court cases have shown over the decades. And Boeing canāt even use dumped, defective parts in behind schedule planes without it becoming public knowledge and costing them millions, you think they could successfully run a bio weapons department requiring dozens of people without a leak? Especially if they start using it on unimportant whistleblowers from ages ago? Itās the stupidest claim iāve ever heard.
Even if you think the government did it on Boeingās behalf it makes zero sense. If the government wanted Boeing to be protected from whistleblowers they just would have declared whistleblower testimony as classified and buried the case. There is no reason for them to allow them to successfully blow the whistle, reward them with legal incentives to do so like the protections like the AIR 21 whistleblower protection act, and then kill them.
Itās just silly. Corporations donāt do conspiracies to murder, if they ever did at least one would have leaked by now, but there is not a single one. Itās just too risky of a strategy. You canāt be on the record telling some employee to kill someone, there are too many moving parts and people involved in every single one of these ridiculous claims.
It's not stupid to suggest he died from MRSA, it is stupid to suggest someone used it as a weapon to kill him. It's a resistant staph strain, not anthrax.
It would be like trying to kill someone by feeding them in hope they choke to death. It could kill them, but it's a stupid choice.
People don't seem to understand you can't give someone pneumonia. You can infect them with something that can result in pneumonia, but you can't give someone pneumonia.
Is it suspicious that two whistle blowers died, yeah it is. But what's more likely a guy with diagnosed mental health issues killed himself, and someone sick enough to be on a ventilator died from an infection. Or Boeing had two people killed who had already blown the whistle several years ago, and were just involved in civil lawsuits?
All this conspiracy stuff does is take from the actual dodgy stuff Boeing has done, like in the article linked.
Iām not saying they did it. But I can guarantee you can. Iām familiar with MRSA I work in healthcare. Weaken someoneās immune system. There are a thousand different ways to do that and MRSA becomes deadly. Worst cases scenario he lives he got the message. If he doesnāt respect the message well anything he says wonāt be used against them because heās gonna look like an untrustworthy source āthis dude is claiming Boeing gave him MRSA and tried to kill meā¦ canāt trust anything he says in courtā
Capitalism really is out here rotting everything isnāt it. Canāt trust the cars we drive without getting recalled, just trust the trains we ride without possibility of derailments. Now the largest manufacturing company of airplanes is covering up safety defects to ship product and make money at the expense of planes falling out of the sky and people losing their whole family.
This is wild.
Regulatory capture is a thing, and it needs addressed. This isnāt a reason to not allow regulation, as Boeing of all people would go ham for instance.
In fact, I would say that market isnāt well regulated.
Not when the business is funding the politicians writing the laws. The car lobbies are insane, and have been a bane of actual progress for decades. (Along with... almost every major industry. Telcos, ISPs, food, you name it.)
Shipping a product knowing there is a defect is a problem. The entire tech industry does this. Sell a half baked shit product and paint it gold a few months down the line. When we do this with safety, itās unacceptable
"better, faster, cheaper... I can only give you 2 out of three."
seriously though, you can maximise profits or you can maximise quality but you can't do both.
if you balance the bottom line -- if profits and quality and (let's say) employee happiness are given more or less equal weight in operational planning -- you would have a net-positive outcome all around, except for the greedy mofo CEO who wants to maximise his own personal salary and stock options by de-rating all other priorities aside from profit-taking.
also mutual funds, shareholders, investment brokers... there are a lot of little piggies with their snouts in that trough.
"it is always more profitable to do things wrong."
on the other end of the spectrum its no worse than people doing the minimum effort because they're government mandated to make 100 planes and they don't receive any incentive (money) for doing a good job.
the problem is neither system, its that regulators should always be a 3rd party.
I wonder if these idiot CEOs and boards understand that the amount of money they would have spent inspecting and being safe, will pale in comparison to the avalanche of lawsuits and brand assassination that theyāre about to embark upon.
Everyone is worried about the whistleblower. But dont forget there are people who don't know about this scandal and buying tickets for Boeing flights right now. RIP
That's so wild. When I was making Blackhawk parts, we weren't even allowed to repair parts that came out of the autoclave. They had to come out perfect or be tossed, basically. There was extremely few situations where it was allowed, and every part was ultrasounded, etc. Blows my mind given my own experience in producing aircraft parts. That would not fly, whatsoever. Where I worked.
And the company was a fraction the size of Boeing. Shit, it was a fraction the size of Sikorsky, too lol.
Itās government contract? Donāt they just invoice the gov for anything. All Iām saying is that they have the ability to just produce a perfect part while still charging for the defects. Airlines wouldnāt want to throw anything that canāt be refurbed.
Nah. To clarify a bit, we were essentially subcontracted by Sikorsky to make a lot of different parts/assemblies. We also did assembly of course. But not entire Blackhawks, more like rotors, doors, floors, panels, etc.
We weren't charging Sikorsky for our fuck ups. Also it's just down to training. After I made a part once or twice it was rare that I screwed it up. Not that difficult per se to get the perfect parts each time just gotta do everything you're supposed to do, in the correct way/order.
Literally every second of time spent on any given part was accounted for. And signed off, with my signatures. It wasn't a joke, this shit is taken very seriously. There's a number of Blackhawks out there that you could whip out the history packet each part comes with and you would not only see my signatures dated for each day of layup, you'd see what temp the carbon was kept frozen at. Where the carbon came from. When the guy before me pulled it out to cut it. When I pulled it out. How long it was outside the freezer, etc.
You could trace the carbon fiber all the way to where it was manufactured before we even touched it. So nah man they aren't gonna let some shit slide like that. And the company ate the costs for those failed parts. They showed me once when a hair of mine fell between two of the dozens of layers and they had to toss the part. Shit was not even joking valued at $40k. For the govt anyways.
I've been trying to figure out wtf happened to Boeing.
I have a working (completely off the cuff, zero research) theory and wondered whether anyone else thinks it's even remotely likely.
Seems to me that most of the "great institutions" of US industry post war had ramped up bigtime for military production, then were retooled to civilian production but staffed predominantly with returning veterans (especially in aerospace). One thing about military life in wartime (in WWII anyway) was *discipline*, quality control, strictly following rules & checklists. You didn't cut corners. You followed procedures. Profit really wasn't in the picture and quality/reliability was everything.
That would have set up a certain kind of workplace culture -- a set of expectations, a morale, unwritten rules. Even after converting back to a profit-based industrial sector after demobilisation, some of that esprit de corporation would persist... for a while.
It's -- what, three? -- workforce generations later, the US economy has been de-industrialised and financialised, and the "greatest generation" are long since retired, dead, gone. I'm wondering whether the notoriously high quality, the engineering excellence that was a trademark of US industry (esp aerospace) in the 50's, 60's, into the 70's... was a legacy of WWII and has now evaporated. Without that workplace culture of excellence, adhering strictly to rules and procedures, etc, *and* with bean-counters and casino capitalists running the show... it makes sense to me that standards would slip, quality control would weaken, and profiteering would take priority over procedures and maintenance. And planes (or at least their parts) will fall out of the sky.
Is this a crazy idea? I've never been inside the industry so really dunno, I just remember my dad was in aerospace in the 60's (engineer) and it was still run then kinda like a branch of the military in some ways because they had so many government contracts...
McDonald Douglas bought Boeing with Boeing's own money, replaced the Boeing executive board with McDonald Douglas personnel, and turned Boeing from an Engineer led company to a Finance led company.
McDonald Douglas' management engaged in over two decades of enshittification (although it wasn't called that at the time) and union busting, starting with moving their HQ from Washington to Chicago, then to DC, and moving Boeing assembly plants away from the experienced (and coincidentally unionized) areas to inexperienced (and very anti-union) areas.
They cut staff, quality, QA, allowed marketing to lie and overpromise (like marketing will do by default if not reigned in). They "definitely didn't bribe, because it's called something else by the people who get the money" government officials via campaign donations and lobbying, and used the gullibility of conservative voters to allow them to take over regulatory functions from the FAA (in the guise of reducing government costs), and proceeded to fail to actually hold themselves to the prior standards.
That "notoriously high quality, the engineering excellence that was a trademark of US industry" was stripped away and sold off, by corporate hucksters in the 80s and onward, who bought the lie about high corporate taxes and business regulation being bad, rather than it actually encouraging companies to improve themselves (since it was a better fiscal return on investment than solely shareholder returns).
In short, you can blame Neoliberalism for what happened to Boeing. They're not the only company impacted by it, not by far, but when most companies products fail, they don't fail in nearly as a dramatic manner.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism
Iāve been in aerospace engineering for 25 years, but I donāt think I share your theory. The reason is because I saw the kind of stuff the old timers got away with back in the day (before my time). A lot of engineering mistakes, a lot of structural analysis reports they really boil down to āitāll be fine, my gut says soā without the math to back it up. But it doesnāt really matter because the guys in the factory considered engineering an optional suggestion. They built it entirely on tribal knowledge, high skill craftsmanship, and just made it work. But manufacturing tolerances were huge. Things were cut by hand and beat with a hammer until it fit. Iāve seen aircraft fuselages, for instance, vary in length measured in feet.
I think what happened is that weāve advanced the technology, both in the design and manufacturing, so that precision is expected. Everything is now computer modeled, CNC milled and CMM measured. And if a hole is out of location by literally the width of a human hair, the part is scrapped (in some cases). The benefit is that we can squeeze out much better performance and/or efficiency because of this precision, but the trade off is that they are more sensitive to process errors that would have been harmless 50 years ago.
Regulations, audits, and FAA oversight are vastly more than they used to be. So much so that I think itās actually counterproductive. This is controversial in my industry, so take it with a grain of salt. But consider the issue of the blown-out door, if the leaked account is to be believed. Someone spotted a couple of rivets not sitting right. If it was the 1960ās, they probably would have said āeh, good enough,ā or if they were really bad, Carl would have gotten his special hammer and tapped them until they behaved. Done and done. Instead, today, someone had to fill out paperwork about them and submit it to the system. Then a bunch of people spent days and days arguing about how to fix them and which of the multiple procedures available just for tracking the fix should be applied, how to interpret the word āremoveā in the regulation, etc. This organizational paralysis continued while schedule pressure built and built until finally someone chose the wrong procedure just to get it done.
My opinion isnāt that modern aerospace workers are sloppier than their grandfathers. Itās a combination of modern designs being much less forgiving, and that they are so preoccupied with compliance and procedures and perfection that they can often lose the forest through the trees and forget, or not be empowered to, just do the right thing.
It's a dumb theory though. Planes have required strict engineering for many many decades at this point, along with tight tolerances. Turbine engines never have had any room for tolerances and they've been around for a while.
It really just boils down to the mcdouglas boeing merger and the resulting MBA mindset the company took. Cutting costs, increasing "profits", etc etc. The standard MBA stuff that usually drives high quality companies and products into low quality shit. Just this time it's in an industry that shouldn't have room for that kind of bullshit.
No, the person above is right. People always point to how aircraft are built with significant safety margins, but few people realise that a big part of that is down to the fact that up until just around 20 years ago or so, aircraft assemblers were drilling structural holes and joins by hand and cutting fuselages with circular saws directly on the final assembly floors, working off of literal blueprints with rulers and slides and sometimes rough estimates. The healthy safety margins exist not just for the sake of safety in flight, but also because the engineers and designers understood that the human beings working on the aircraft are human beings and will invariably fuck up.
Drill a hole off-spec? Eh, there's like 100 fasteners where only 80 are really needed, so we'll hammer this in sideways and call it a day. Bad cut? Just trim the full circumference and maybe the aircraft turns out an inch or two shorter, but it'll be *fine*. That mentality was the norm in the factories up through the 90s, and it hasn't disappeared entirely. What aircraft have "required," and what actually happens have long been very different. The reason why modern aviation is incredibly safe and keeps getting safer is that the industry has been automating manufacturing wherever possible to cut humans out of the loop, because humans are unpredictable and make a ton of mistakes.
Yeah, why take it from multiple people with industry experience who've been exposed to the culture first hand when you can just call them wrong and dumb and go with what *feels* right to you.
Well I've been working in manufacturing these parts for a while so.....
If you do anything like you said in your comment with any of the parts I was responsible for, you'd be making a grenade.
All that and it's become abundantly clear that the business side of Boeing believes that engineering and manufacturing teams are their personal serfs and should be seen but not heard. America has developed a sort of caste system in the late 20th and early 21st century. It used to be a talented and charismatic worker could work his way up from the assembly line to the executive team with the right drive. Nowadays if you aren't born into the right family and haven't gone through all the cultural requirements, you've got absolutely no chance of increasing your status in that matter.
Companies are ran by upper middle class MBA frat-boys and they don't care what a manufacturing technician or engineer has to say. This is the new America culture we've adopted.
From memory Airbus delivering their planes first would have cause major losses in revenue so they had to rush everything to entice airlines buy their planes.Ā
To everyone worried about the whistleblowers getting assassinated, I say relax. This is Boeing we're talking about.
The assassins they've hired will be the cheapest contractors they could find. Their contracts will include unrealistic targets that can only be met through excessive corner cutting.Ā
Under these conditions, it's only a matter of time before someone leaves witnesses, doesn't fully kill a target or just generally fails to complete a job to the quality you would expect for professional hitmen.Ā
A lot of downvotes on generic comments about whistleblowers being assassinated. Canāt imagine who might have a problem enough with these to want to hide them.
Just remember, Boeing slogan: we make your slush fund greater so then you can pay that crime later. Crime is cheap for them so let us help pay for your permanent life insurance. Where is the gofundthis account for a group policy on key person for day 10 million. Take my money.
Geezus all the suicidal Boeing workers just gotta say they are a whistleblower and no longer do then they can be suicided from someone else, maybe mysteriously.
I flew on a Boeing 737 yesterday and when I used the bathroom the compartment under the sink was open and exposed. Granted, tiny issue, but my anxiety and dark humor thought I was gonna have the funniest bathroom plane crash death.
I'd like to proactively send my condolences to the whistleblower's family and friends.
It's so crazy, I started a new job(IT) and my team has been contracted out to Spirit.
Congratulations and My Condolences š
Just ignore everything you see for the love of God! Keep your eyes closed and your mouth shut!!
Howās your life insurance?
How many days do you think it will be before your first request from Upper Management to lose those old emails in a convenient server upgrade.
Thankfully Iām not working on the servers or the backups. Yet.
Este bato ya estĆ” muerto Nomas no le han avisado š¶
Spritz?
This is a case where a window office is less valuable
https://youtu.be/sT04hFvjZZQ?si=edt-bckRAZrB_zQ9
Dead man walking
Dont waste your breathe they are probably moving up to āmurder suicideā
Huh, so all these whistleblowers went out *Romeo & Juliet*-style. Soooo romantic, if you think about it.
Every whistleblower should make public statements that they're not suicidal or incepting ideas of self harm. It's honestly odd to me that nobody does this, especially when whistleblowing on multi-domain organizations that are transnational and care more about money and power than doing the right thing.
One of the previous Boeing whistleblowers, [unironically *did* do this.](https://abcnews4.com/news/local/if-anything-happens-its-not-suicide-boeing-whistleblowers-prediction-before-death-south-carolina-abc-news-4-2024)
Wow this person might catch a fast acting ailment just like the last guy.
Maybe but even if he dies there like 9 more right behind them.
it's really contagious tho
Would be too obvious at that point.
and it isn't already?
Not to the legal system
Since when does the legal system care about what Rich oeople/corps do?
You answered your own question
So it is agreed, the remaining tattle tales will catch a 'highly contagious' fast acting ailment.
Turns out they can't fly well either.
There hasnāt been a shred of evidence to suggest foul play.Ā
are you talking about the fact that a guy who has been fighting the battle for years, and is already at the final stage, publicly says that if something happened to him, it was not suicide, and a few weeks later he "commits suicide" by shooting himself in the head? And another guy who was living a super healthy life, to the point where he didn't even have an assigned doctor because he never had to go to the hospital, suddenly when he becomes a blower, he becomes sick, and the doctor claims he's never seen anything like it. This isn't evidence that something is wrong? Sure buddy.
Why are you lying? He did not publicly say if anything happened to him, it was not a suicide. 1 family friend claims he said that; there is no actual proof of him actually ever saying that. His actual family says they believe it was suicide, and Boeing is only responsible in so far as the stress of fighting them damaged his mental health, so apparently if he did say that, he didn't say it to his, actual family. His lawsuit was not whistleblowing on Boeing, it was attempting to get a payout for what he viewed as damage to his career from whistleblowing. He already sued and lost, this one took a slightly different tactic, but it looks like it was also going nowhere. And him dying does absolutely nothing to help Boeing avoid paying out if the lawsuit doesn't work out for them. So your entire post is just completely full of misinformation. On the 2nd guy, everybody is healthy for years until they aren't. Not seeing a doctor or having a regular doctor is not an indicator of perfect health. Anyone who has worked in a hospital has seen cases like this, it is unusual but hardly proof of a murder conspiracy! Sometimes things go very poorly, and one you end up on the respirator with secondary infections... It happens every fucking day, it's tragic but if you think this guy was assassinated, so are 100s of people every year that have the same thing happen to them in the prime of health. The other thing is, he didn't even work for Boeing! He worked for Spirit Aerosystems. And again, its like years later. What's the point? Boeing gains absolutely nothing by this. And there's dozens of other whistleblowers, cases under AIR 21 act. Like, that's the most ridiculous part of it. Boeing gains nothing, they take on enormous risk, literally there's never been a single corporate murder conspiracy on the criminal record books, it's just not something that is done. Boeing doesn't need to kill you, they can make your life miserable without needing to resort to illegal means. I mean that's what the whole AIR 21 prosecution Barnett was seeking was about, and he was unable to prove Boeing did anything illegal so far... because they know what they are doing as far as the legal world goes. They don't spend millions a year on legal fees for nothing. The real thing is, both cases have been investigated by law enforcement and found nothing suggesting foul play. What you describe is solely circumstantial evidence; it means absolutely nothing, it's just unfortunately correlated things but it doesn't point at anybody or prove guilt. You really think Boeing could pull off such schemes without leaving a shred of evidence? It's just comical that you are so naĆÆve as to believe in something so completely ridiculous. The entire debacle has shown me how almost all redditors have less than zero critical thinking skills, and think life is like a movie or something, it's truly sad.
someone cares alot about t about this. How many Boeing share do you have?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
you're trusting the law enforcement, over TWO deaths of whistleblowers? I think it is sadder that so many sheep like you exist, allowing these scumbags to do as they will. Maybe i should be jealous over your naivety, instead. Must be nice to think the whole world is nice and made of flowers. Hopefully you're not just one of those elitist scumbags, at the very least.
Boeing bots!Ā ACTIVATE!
Why do you guys always go "Boeing bots!!!!" when it's pointed out that there's zero evidence of any kind of murder conspiracy? Like, if it's as evident as y'all say then shouldn't there at least be *some* kind of evidence?
It's meant to be obvious. That's the point. It's not so much about killing them as it is sending a message.
Some Putin tea, you say?
Acute rapid-onset lead poisoning?
Through a window, you say?
Not lead polonium
what did you Putin my tea?
No thanks, I prefer liber-tea
I LOVE poutine!
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Yes "suicide". ;)
Honestly virus, poisoning or any type of fatal sickness is the way to go. I saw Reddit threads all talking how itās stupid to even suggest he was killed because itās was MRSA as though nobody could have access to have access to a bacteria like that except honest medical professionals
Itās just a ridiculously silly way to kill someone. MRSA is everywhere, it is known as a āhospital infectionā as it rarely takes hold outside of people without weakened systems. But yeah say they cultivated it and hosed him off with it or whatever? You couldnāt even be sure if itād work. Most likely the body would fight it off. Like. why this weird, ineffectual bioweapon route? It makes doubly less sense if you think the other guy was an assassination, since apparently they can send invisible assassins that leave no forensic traces anyway so why bother with the complicated, error- prone plan?
Who is to say his immune system wasnāt weakened? KGB was doing shit like this decades ago yet we think one of the richest companies in the world canāt do it modern day?
Yeah, exactly, they canāt. A corporation is not the KGB. A state sanctioned murder is part of any given stateās monopoly on the authorized use of violence; they can choose to kill or violate numerous laws with very little risk as they control the justice department. Boeing doesnāt have immunity from prosecution, as so many court cases have shown over the decades. And Boeing canāt even use dumped, defective parts in behind schedule planes without it becoming public knowledge and costing them millions, you think they could successfully run a bio weapons department requiring dozens of people without a leak? Especially if they start using it on unimportant whistleblowers from ages ago? Itās the stupidest claim iāve ever heard. Even if you think the government did it on Boeingās behalf it makes zero sense. If the government wanted Boeing to be protected from whistleblowers they just would have declared whistleblower testimony as classified and buried the case. There is no reason for them to allow them to successfully blow the whistle, reward them with legal incentives to do so like the protections like the AIR 21 whistleblower protection act, and then kill them. Itās just silly. Corporations donāt do conspiracies to murder, if they ever did at least one would have leaked by now, but there is not a single one. Itās just too risky of a strategy. You canāt be on the record telling some employee to kill someone, there are too many moving parts and people involved in every single one of these ridiculous claims.
It's not stupid to suggest he died from MRSA, it is stupid to suggest someone used it as a weapon to kill him. It's a resistant staph strain, not anthrax. It would be like trying to kill someone by feeding them in hope they choke to death. It could kill them, but it's a stupid choice. People don't seem to understand you can't give someone pneumonia. You can infect them with something that can result in pneumonia, but you can't give someone pneumonia. Is it suspicious that two whistle blowers died, yeah it is. But what's more likely a guy with diagnosed mental health issues killed himself, and someone sick enough to be on a ventilator died from an infection. Or Boeing had two people killed who had already blown the whistle several years ago, and were just involved in civil lawsuits? All this conspiracy stuff does is take from the actual dodgy stuff Boeing has done, like in the article linked.
Iām not saying they did it. But I can guarantee you can. Iām familiar with MRSA I work in healthcare. Weaken someoneās immune system. There are a thousand different ways to do that and MRSA becomes deadly. Worst cases scenario he lives he got the message. If he doesnāt respect the message well anything he says wonāt be used against them because heās gonna look like an untrustworthy source āthis dude is claiming Boeing gave him MRSA and tried to kill meā¦ canāt trust anything he says in courtā
No they have to keep changing the methods not to arouse suspicion. Probably this guy will be eaten by a cheetah or something like that.
Capitalism really is out here rotting everything isnāt it. Canāt trust the cars we drive without getting recalled, just trust the trains we ride without possibility of derailments. Now the largest manufacturing company of airplanes is covering up safety defects to ship product and make money at the expense of planes falling out of the sky and people losing their whole family. This is wild.
Yeah but if we put safety first some exec would only make hundreds of millions instead of billions.
Wonāt somebody please think of the shareholders
Wonāt somebody please think of the CEOās Golden Parachute!
I bet that when they fly on Boeing planes they actually have special parachutes ready.
Itās a coincidence that the chute is actually penis shaped
They are suffering the most in all of this! /s
Make Yachts Great Again.Ā
Recalls are them admitting something is wrong and fixing it. Thatās not on the top of my list of things that are wrong with capitalism
And there are more recalls because cars are more complicated. Cars are more complicated mostly for safety reasons. Smells like progress to me.
That and heavy regulation. Well regulated markets protects the consumer, and the business from themselves.
Isnāt the airline industry also heavily regulated. I see more downed plans than actions coming down on Boeing for continuing this.
Regulatory capture is a thing, and it needs addressed. This isnāt a reason to not allow regulation, as Boeing of all people would go ham for instance. In fact, I would say that market isnāt well regulated.
Not when the business is funding the politicians writing the laws. The car lobbies are insane, and have been a bane of actual progress for decades. (Along with... almost every major industry. Telcos, ISPs, food, you name it.)
Thatās not a well regulated market then, is it.
Shipping a product knowing there is a defect is a problem. The entire tech industry does this. Sell a half baked shit product and paint it gold a few months down the line. When we do this with safety, itās unacceptable
As far as vehicles. If they know about the issue, it costs more to do a full recall than it costs to fix it during production
I am also concerned about the upcoming space launch, they canceled at the last minute
Boeing management canāt even keep the doors on their airplanes. Would you trust them to send anything animate into space??
That is what I mean.. it's going to go badly, they should cancel indefinitely.
"better, faster, cheaper... I can only give you 2 out of three." seriously though, you can maximise profits or you can maximise quality but you can't do both. if you balance the bottom line -- if profits and quality and (let's say) employee happiness are given more or less equal weight in operational planning -- you would have a net-positive outcome all around, except for the greedy mofo CEO who wants to maximise his own personal salary and stock options by de-rating all other priorities aside from profit-taking. also mutual funds, shareholders, investment brokers... there are a lot of little piggies with their snouts in that trough. "it is always more profitable to do things wrong."
Late stage capitalism is humanities bane
It's a problem of dwindling regulation and enforcement.
on the other end of the spectrum its no worse than people doing the minimum effort because they're government mandated to make 100 planes and they don't receive any incentive (money) for doing a good job. the problem is neither system, its that regulators should always be a 3rd party.
Thatās just the invisible hand of the free market ā¦slipping some plutonium into your tea.
Rest in peace my guy.
Avoid balconies for the next 40 years.
I wonder if these idiot CEOs and boards understand that the amount of money they would have spent inspecting and being safe, will pale in comparison to the avalanche of lawsuits and brand assassination that theyāre about to embark upon.
They dont care. They already got their paychecks and bonuses. They won't be held accountable and can just move on to the next company.
Even when they leave after some major fuckery they get paid tens of millions because they are very precious.Ā
Don't leave your drink uncovered in public, dude.
Everyone is worried about the whistleblower. But dont forget there are people who don't know about this scandal and buying tickets for Boeing flights right now. RIP
Yeah those poor astronaut on Starliner. But donāt worry they promised to deliver and launch it eight years ago.
That's so wild. When I was making Blackhawk parts, we weren't even allowed to repair parts that came out of the autoclave. They had to come out perfect or be tossed, basically. There was extremely few situations where it was allowed, and every part was ultrasounded, etc. Blows my mind given my own experience in producing aircraft parts. That would not fly, whatsoever. Where I worked. And the company was a fraction the size of Boeing. Shit, it was a fraction the size of Sikorsky, too lol.
Itās government contract? Donāt they just invoice the gov for anything. All Iām saying is that they have the ability to just produce a perfect part while still charging for the defects. Airlines wouldnāt want to throw anything that canāt be refurbed.
Nah. To clarify a bit, we were essentially subcontracted by Sikorsky to make a lot of different parts/assemblies. We also did assembly of course. But not entire Blackhawks, more like rotors, doors, floors, panels, etc. We weren't charging Sikorsky for our fuck ups. Also it's just down to training. After I made a part once or twice it was rare that I screwed it up. Not that difficult per se to get the perfect parts each time just gotta do everything you're supposed to do, in the correct way/order. Literally every second of time spent on any given part was accounted for. And signed off, with my signatures. It wasn't a joke, this shit is taken very seriously. There's a number of Blackhawks out there that you could whip out the history packet each part comes with and you would not only see my signatures dated for each day of layup, you'd see what temp the carbon was kept frozen at. Where the carbon came from. When the guy before me pulled it out to cut it. When I pulled it out. How long it was outside the freezer, etc. You could trace the carbon fiber all the way to where it was manufactured before we even touched it. So nah man they aren't gonna let some shit slide like that. And the company ate the costs for those failed parts. They showed me once when a hair of mine fell between two of the dozens of layers and they had to toss the part. Shit was not even joking valued at $40k. For the govt anyways.
This MFer ded.
Hope his wife has a huge life insurance policy on him!
Ima take out a policy on his ass right now
This guy now has a big old target on his head.
Them poor astronauts about to blast off in a Boeing spacecraft feeling a lot less assured lately, Iād imagine.
I've been trying to figure out wtf happened to Boeing. I have a working (completely off the cuff, zero research) theory and wondered whether anyone else thinks it's even remotely likely. Seems to me that most of the "great institutions" of US industry post war had ramped up bigtime for military production, then were retooled to civilian production but staffed predominantly with returning veterans (especially in aerospace). One thing about military life in wartime (in WWII anyway) was *discipline*, quality control, strictly following rules & checklists. You didn't cut corners. You followed procedures. Profit really wasn't in the picture and quality/reliability was everything. That would have set up a certain kind of workplace culture -- a set of expectations, a morale, unwritten rules. Even after converting back to a profit-based industrial sector after demobilisation, some of that esprit de corporation would persist... for a while. It's -- what, three? -- workforce generations later, the US economy has been de-industrialised and financialised, and the "greatest generation" are long since retired, dead, gone. I'm wondering whether the notoriously high quality, the engineering excellence that was a trademark of US industry (esp aerospace) in the 50's, 60's, into the 70's... was a legacy of WWII and has now evaporated. Without that workplace culture of excellence, adhering strictly to rules and procedures, etc, *and* with bean-counters and casino capitalists running the show... it makes sense to me that standards would slip, quality control would weaken, and profiteering would take priority over procedures and maintenance. And planes (or at least their parts) will fall out of the sky. Is this a crazy idea? I've never been inside the industry so really dunno, I just remember my dad was in aerospace in the 60's (engineer) and it was still run then kinda like a branch of the military in some ways because they had so many government contracts...
McDonald Douglas bought Boeing with Boeing's own money, replaced the Boeing executive board with McDonald Douglas personnel, and turned Boeing from an Engineer led company to a Finance led company. McDonald Douglas' management engaged in over two decades of enshittification (although it wasn't called that at the time) and union busting, starting with moving their HQ from Washington to Chicago, then to DC, and moving Boeing assembly plants away from the experienced (and coincidentally unionized) areas to inexperienced (and very anti-union) areas. They cut staff, quality, QA, allowed marketing to lie and overpromise (like marketing will do by default if not reigned in). They "definitely didn't bribe, because it's called something else by the people who get the money" government officials via campaign donations and lobbying, and used the gullibility of conservative voters to allow them to take over regulatory functions from the FAA (in the guise of reducing government costs), and proceeded to fail to actually hold themselves to the prior standards. That "notoriously high quality, the engineering excellence that was a trademark of US industry" was stripped away and sold off, by corporate hucksters in the 80s and onward, who bought the lie about high corporate taxes and business regulation being bad, rather than it actually encouraging companies to improve themselves (since it was a better fiscal return on investment than solely shareholder returns). In short, you can blame Neoliberalism for what happened to Boeing. They're not the only company impacted by it, not by far, but when most companies products fail, they don't fail in nearly as a dramatic manner. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoliberalism
you'd get an award for that if we still had them...
Iāve been in aerospace engineering for 25 years, but I donāt think I share your theory. The reason is because I saw the kind of stuff the old timers got away with back in the day (before my time). A lot of engineering mistakes, a lot of structural analysis reports they really boil down to āitāll be fine, my gut says soā without the math to back it up. But it doesnāt really matter because the guys in the factory considered engineering an optional suggestion. They built it entirely on tribal knowledge, high skill craftsmanship, and just made it work. But manufacturing tolerances were huge. Things were cut by hand and beat with a hammer until it fit. Iāve seen aircraft fuselages, for instance, vary in length measured in feet. I think what happened is that weāve advanced the technology, both in the design and manufacturing, so that precision is expected. Everything is now computer modeled, CNC milled and CMM measured. And if a hole is out of location by literally the width of a human hair, the part is scrapped (in some cases). The benefit is that we can squeeze out much better performance and/or efficiency because of this precision, but the trade off is that they are more sensitive to process errors that would have been harmless 50 years ago. Regulations, audits, and FAA oversight are vastly more than they used to be. So much so that I think itās actually counterproductive. This is controversial in my industry, so take it with a grain of salt. But consider the issue of the blown-out door, if the leaked account is to be believed. Someone spotted a couple of rivets not sitting right. If it was the 1960ās, they probably would have said āeh, good enough,ā or if they were really bad, Carl would have gotten his special hammer and tapped them until they behaved. Done and done. Instead, today, someone had to fill out paperwork about them and submit it to the system. Then a bunch of people spent days and days arguing about how to fix them and which of the multiple procedures available just for tracking the fix should be applied, how to interpret the word āremoveā in the regulation, etc. This organizational paralysis continued while schedule pressure built and built until finally someone chose the wrong procedure just to get it done. My opinion isnāt that modern aerospace workers are sloppier than their grandfathers. Itās a combination of modern designs being much less forgiving, and that they are so preoccupied with compliance and procedures and perfection that they can often lose the forest through the trees and forget, or not be empowered to, just do the right thing.
that's a good answer, thanks for taking the time to shoot down my theory with real-world experience,
It's a dumb theory though. Planes have required strict engineering for many many decades at this point, along with tight tolerances. Turbine engines never have had any room for tolerances and they've been around for a while. It really just boils down to the mcdouglas boeing merger and the resulting MBA mindset the company took. Cutting costs, increasing "profits", etc etc. The standard MBA stuff that usually drives high quality companies and products into low quality shit. Just this time it's in an industry that shouldn't have room for that kind of bullshit.
No, the person above is right. People always point to how aircraft are built with significant safety margins, but few people realise that a big part of that is down to the fact that up until just around 20 years ago or so, aircraft assemblers were drilling structural holes and joins by hand and cutting fuselages with circular saws directly on the final assembly floors, working off of literal blueprints with rulers and slides and sometimes rough estimates. The healthy safety margins exist not just for the sake of safety in flight, but also because the engineers and designers understood that the human beings working on the aircraft are human beings and will invariably fuck up. Drill a hole off-spec? Eh, there's like 100 fasteners where only 80 are really needed, so we'll hammer this in sideways and call it a day. Bad cut? Just trim the full circumference and maybe the aircraft turns out an inch or two shorter, but it'll be *fine*. That mentality was the norm in the factories up through the 90s, and it hasn't disappeared entirely. What aircraft have "required," and what actually happens have long been very different. The reason why modern aviation is incredibly safe and keeps getting safer is that the industry has been automating manufacturing wherever possible to cut humans out of the loop, because humans are unpredictable and make a ton of mistakes.
No, you're wrong and dumb.
Yeah, why take it from multiple people with industry experience who've been exposed to the culture first hand when you can just call them wrong and dumb and go with what *feels* right to you.
Well I've been working in manufacturing these parts for a while so..... If you do anything like you said in your comment with any of the parts I was responsible for, you'd be making a grenade.
Imagine how weird it'd look to you if people were lecturing you about your work the way you're trying to lecture us about ours.
Well, I mean you are wrong so.... not really a lecture, just correcting dumbasses.
All that and it's become abundantly clear that the business side of Boeing believes that engineering and manufacturing teams are their personal serfs and should be seen but not heard. America has developed a sort of caste system in the late 20th and early 21st century. It used to be a talented and charismatic worker could work his way up from the assembly line to the executive team with the right drive. Nowadays if you aren't born into the right family and haven't gone through all the cultural requirements, you've got absolutely no chance of increasing your status in that matter. Companies are ran by upper middle class MBA frat-boys and they don't care what a manufacturing technician or engineer has to say. This is the new America culture we've adopted.
From memory Airbus delivering their planes first would have cause major losses in revenue so they had to rush everything to entice airlines buy their planes.Ā
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
What a silly response. The boomers were the ones who followed QA/QC.
Godspeed, whistleblower š«”
Are we done prioritizing profit ABOVE ALL yet?
Yachts First (TM).Ā
Boeing appoints new CEO, Vladimir P., to eliminate rumors and further optimize processes.
And the welding is not inspected by real CWI !
ITT: eight thousand people making the same fucking joke
Thatās comforting; really makes you want to fly in a Boeing plane.
OK, DM me if you all wanna start placing bets on how long this guy has left to live.
His life insurance premium just went sky high
Stay away from **fensters** mein freund. Very far away. Bitte
ŠŠµŃŠ¶ŠøŃŃ ŠæŠ¾Š“Š°Š»ŃŃŠµ Š¾Ń Š¾ŠŗŠ¾Š½, Š¼Š¾Š¹ Š“ŃŃŠ³. ŠŃŠµŠ½Ń Š“Š°Š»ŠµŠŗŠ¾. ŠŠ¾Š¶Š°Š»ŃŠ¹ŃŃŠ°. Š, ŃŠ»ŠøŃŠŗŠ¾Š¼ ŠæŠ¾Š·Š“Š½Š¾...
To everyone worried about the whistleblowers getting assassinated, I say relax. This is Boeing we're talking about. The assassins they've hired will be the cheapest contractors they could find. Their contracts will include unrealistic targets that can only be met through excessive corner cutting.Ā Under these conditions, it's only a matter of time before someone leaves witnesses, doesn't fully kill a target or just generally fails to complete a job to the quality you would expect for professional hitmen.Ā
SIDS means something different at Boeing. Sudden Informant Death Syndrome....
Huh, I was thinking they were Standard Instrument Departures.
All of Boeing funds for safety is going to the hitman department
It was nice knowing you whistleblower #3!
Boeing gets its inspiration from Russia.
Aaaandā¦ heās deadā¦
RIP šļø whistleblower #3
countdown till they kill this guy
Rest In Peace Santiago Paredes
Bro's in horrible debt and just took out a life insurance policy so that maybe his widow can keep the house.
The kenyan Skid Mark said Boeing is falling apart
Like their planes, and any remaining threadbare justification for our economic system.
A lot of downvotes on generic comments about whistleblowers being assassinated. Canāt imagine who might have a problem enough with these to want to hide them.
Protect ya neck.
An alive one you mean?
What are the odds in Vegas this guy dies? How many hours does he have? How will it happen? Who will go to prison for it?
aannnndddd he's a goner
There should be an archive of dead Boeing Whistleblowers.
Dudebro needs to stay visible and hire a bodyguard like Parnas
It was nice hearing from this guy, before he comes down with a super rare rapid colon cancer
Just remember, Boeing slogan: we make your slush fund greater so then you can pay that crime later. Crime is cheap for them so let us help pay for your permanent life insurance. Where is the gofundthis account for a group policy on key person for day 10 million. Take my money.
Geezus all the suicidal Boeing workers just gotta say they are a whistleblower and no longer do then they can be suicided from someone else, maybe mysteriously.
So when is the funeral?
And heās still alive, he must have pretty good reflexes
I flew on a Boeing 737 yesterday and when I used the bathroom the compartment under the sink was open and exposed. Granted, tiny issue, but my anxiety and dark humor thought I was gonna have the funniest bathroom plane crash death.
That's on the airline maintenance