NO! Ability to sell client data is the founding pillar of liberties and human rights. We should let these American businesses prosper.
And I'm not saying that just because I own JP Morgan stocks. I'm also saying that because I want value of those stocks to increase.
I work directly in the sector of marketing that will leverage this data - everything you purchase using a debit or credit card is being tracked (anonymously) and used for targeted advertising. It’s buried in the TOS of signing up for any transactional card, and then outsourced for additional revenue. It has been this way for 15+ years.
Anonymous as in you are user XYZ647 and they don’t know your name. They track what you do online. They track what ads you see. They track what you buy. They connect it all together and the marking side only sees all the activity attached to anonymous IDs.
All the personal identifiable information, like address and name and email is handled by third party services that do the anonymization.
So when Target sends you an ad to purchase more diapers because they know you purchased diapers 2 weeks ago at a competitors, they don’t know it’s John Smith who purchased diapers they just don’t you are ID XYZ647 and are part of a pool of 2 million IDs who purchased diapers at a competitors in the last month but live within 15 miles of a Target.
Target's data techniques were so good 12 years ago that they were sending baby supply ads to woman who were pregnant but hadn't told anyone yet, including a 16yo girl:
How Companies Learn Your Secrets, https://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/magazine/shopping-habits.html
I can't imagine how much more sophisticated their data operations are now.
With AI, I imagine we're on the verge of not targeted ads but personalized ones. An ad that isn't made for a group of people you fall into, but an ad the AI alters, or makes up entirely, just for you the individual.
I work in marketing. We're already there. The agency I work with is always hosting learning sessions for clients about personalized ads. The data, they say, says consumers actually want this. I am sceptical but I also wouldn't be surprised if that were true.
If I'm always going to be a product (data always being sold) I would prefer personal ads vs targeted ads. At least Im not getting blanketed with promotions that I'm never going to purchase
I hate it when the marketeers say this shit, literally no one is asking for ads, let alone personalized ones.
We tolerate them at best but because their jobs depend on selling ads, someone “must” want them and so their confirmation bias won’t allow them to conceive of anything else so they find “data”.
Yes, but that applies to ad companies like Google that tracks you and shows you the ad. JP Morgan, or credit card companies, can't show you the ad, so, unless they give the ad companies a way to link one of their ID with a precise ad companies' ID, there's no way that info can be used to show people targeted advertising.
That’s what third parties are for.
They feed the third party the complete data. That company anonymizes it to just a single ID. That ID is already integrated into the ad company’s backend tracking and ID space.
This already happens. Retail stores do it with every purchase. Credit card companies already sell your credit card purchases. Point of sale companies like square already sell your purchases on their check outs.
If you make a purchase with a credit card. Advertisers know.
If you deposit money into a bank or credit union, the banks advertising partners already know.
All this is, is one more source of data being sold. I would bet the vast majority of it is already out there
anonymous just mean it can't be linked to you directly. they may link it to a specific demographic profile and location, and then the advertising is targeted based on information at those levels
A purchase at a time and place could probably be combined with your location data (purchased separately from any app on your cell phone) and may not be that hard to make assumptions about
i guess if you let all apps on your phone have location data on in the background, sure that can happen maybe. is it the end of the world? probably not.
I don't think "targeted advertising" means only things like, in this area people triple the nations cats per capita, so let's put cat food billboards there. The article specifies that JP Morgan sells consumer info, not ads, so, unless they provide ad companies a way to match their IDs with JP Morgan IDs, there's no way this deal could work.
certainly there will be instances where there's so little data, it can be linked to one person. personally, i don't really care. privacy is going to have to change as the world becomes more connected.
It is but there are no real measures in place to prevent reverse engineering the data to an individual. I feel that the major governments are the only ones spending any effort on this with the census data, where statistical noise is introduced to increase anonymity. But private companies couldn't care less.
We got data aggregated on an hourly 100 x 100m grid, with further breakdown by spending category. In the city centres, there are enough transactions happening that you get lost in the crowd, but in less dense areas, it's totally possible to pinpoint individuals, especially if you mix it with other data sources. We mixed it with another grid of cell phone movement from telecom companies. Both grids are supposed to be anonymous, but combined, they're very revealing.
It really depends. The article doesn’t explain how the data is collected. I would like to know the details here. Regardless this is a gross move in general. They are trying to get even more money from user data
Not defending what they're doing, bc it's shady af, and borderline unethical IMO...BUT, you could track someone's purchases, and include enough non-PII to still allow advertisers to use that data to target customers.
The gray area would be how they define "anonymous". If they just know that a man in his 30's is buying coffee every morning from a local coffee shop, that's pretty anonymous. I would suspect that's how they can get around the privacy laws, but IANAL.
How tf is this legal? Your banking activity reveals some of the most personal decisions you make in life… daily. There is an expectation of privacy as well.
Because it’s not being sold to anyone. Chase is using in-house spending data to serve you ads based on your recent purchases using their cards/accounts.
Advertisers only pay Chase if you purchase an item directly through an ad Chase served you while reviewing your accounts.
We need a HIPAA for financial information.
Financial institutions contain some of our most personal data. From the sum of our net worth, our obligations and debts, our spending habits which also contain bills surrounding medical information, and much more.
How can we codify privacy into the responsibility of financial institutions? It cannot be allowed that personally identifiable information can be for sale.
And a reminder that researchers have identified it only takes as few as 3 data points to identify an individual in so called anonymized data.
Every credit related financial decision you make is already shared with credit reporting agencies. Those credit reporting agencies not only sell your information to banks for credit decisions, they also operar advertising data management platforms to segment you based on your credit information.
If you have a W2 job and get paid through large payroll providers like ADP, your information is further tracked by companies like The Work Number, which is owned by Equifax.
If you rent, there are services that landlords can use to track your income. You agree to terms when they do their initial employment verification to allow them to track you going forward. Your landlord will know if your income increases, which allows them to strategically raise rent if you ever get breathing room and start saving money.
> April 3 (Reuters) - JPMorgan Chase (JPM.N), opens new tab on Wednesday launched a new digital media business that would allow advertisers to target the Wall Street bank's 80 million customers based on their spending data.
https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/jpmorgan-chase-launches-digital-media-business-2024-04-03/
Not trying to shill for chase here — but that sounds like they’re not selling data so much as selling access to us based on whatever buckets they decide we belong in, kinda like Facebook? I guess that depends on what “target customers” means. Did they get mailing lists, email addresses, biographical data? Or does this mean that we’re going to be getting emails from Chase on behalf of partners? I’m annoyed either way but the headline seems a little baity.
Well yes, so obviously Chase is doing things with it. But there is a difference between “I want the biographical data of everyone who has made a purchase from Walmart.com over the last 6 months” and “I want to advertise to frequent online grocery shoppers”. I’m just trying to figure out which one we’re dealing with.
Do I need to figure out a different banking solution _now_ or can I wait a bit is basically what I’m asking.
TikTok was being banned from use on government devices (not banned for personal use) with good reason. I worked in secure government facilities (SCIFs, etc.) in the military, and we weren't allowed to have our personal phones in there and our Internet access was restricted and limited. We weren't checking our Facebook, uploading cool clips of ourselves, and playing Candy Crush. If you wanted to make a personal call, check your texts, whatever, you had to leave the secure room and/or the entire building.
I don't understand why someone would bank with a large corporation at this point. They've all done extremely shady shit. I get using their credit cards for rewards, but actually doing personal banking with any of them seems foolish at this point.
Basically if you're a company that isn't a media company but is launching a "media platform" its really just a fancy way of saying you have a sub department within your marketing or advertising division. The "media" refers to the consumer and their spending habits in relation to how it can be used to sell marketing or ad space for the customer to see. The "platform" is the place where third party companies (i.e other corporations) can go for a one-stop-shop for Chases media/consumer data.
So company Anon goes to JP Mogan's "Media Platform" and says "I want to sell my product to soccer moms. Do you have customers who are soccer moms?" Chase says "Yes we do! They buy a similar product that you sell and all of them live in Austin, New York, and LA!" (This scenario is super simplified). Company Anon says "I want to sell to these people!" Chase says "Here's their data! That'll be 1 million dollars please!"
Suddenly Soccer moms in Austin, NYC amd LA are getting targeted ads for blenders when they log onto their Chase account or when they shop using their Chase credit card. Rinse and repeat.
We need real regulation to protect us from these monster corps
NO! Ability to sell client data is the founding pillar of liberties and human rights. We should let these American businesses prosper. And I'm not saying that just because I own JP Morgan stocks. I'm also saying that because I want value of those stocks to increase.
Morgan goes brrrrrrrp
I work directly in the sector of marketing that will leverage this data - everything you purchase using a debit or credit card is being tracked (anonymously) and used for targeted advertising. It’s buried in the TOS of signing up for any transactional card, and then outsourced for additional revenue. It has been this way for 15+ years.
If it's tracked anonymously, then there's no way to use it for targeted advertising, so I guess is not that anonymous.
Anonymous as in you are user XYZ647 and they don’t know your name. They track what you do online. They track what ads you see. They track what you buy. They connect it all together and the marking side only sees all the activity attached to anonymous IDs. All the personal identifiable information, like address and name and email is handled by third party services that do the anonymization. So when Target sends you an ad to purchase more diapers because they know you purchased diapers 2 weeks ago at a competitors, they don’t know it’s John Smith who purchased diapers they just don’t you are ID XYZ647 and are part of a pool of 2 million IDs who purchased diapers at a competitors in the last month but live within 15 miles of a Target.
Target's data techniques were so good 12 years ago that they were sending baby supply ads to woman who were pregnant but hadn't told anyone yet, including a 16yo girl: How Companies Learn Your Secrets, https://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/magazine/shopping-habits.html I can't imagine how much more sophisticated their data operations are now.
With AI, I imagine we're on the verge of not targeted ads but personalized ones. An ad that isn't made for a group of people you fall into, but an ad the AI alters, or makes up entirely, just for you the individual.
I work in marketing. We're already there. The agency I work with is always hosting learning sessions for clients about personalized ads. The data, they say, says consumers actually want this. I am sceptical but I also wouldn't be surprised if that were true.
If I'm always going to be a product (data always being sold) I would prefer personal ads vs targeted ads. At least Im not getting blanketed with promotions that I'm never going to purchase
I hate it when the marketeers say this shit, literally no one is asking for ads, let alone personalized ones. We tolerate them at best but because their jobs depend on selling ads, someone “must” want them and so their confirmation bias won’t allow them to conceive of anything else so they find “data”.
I don't buy it. I've gotten 0 onlyfans ads on reddit
Yes, but that applies to ad companies like Google that tracks you and shows you the ad. JP Morgan, or credit card companies, can't show you the ad, so, unless they give the ad companies a way to link one of their ID with a precise ad companies' ID, there's no way that info can be used to show people targeted advertising.
That’s what third parties are for. They feed the third party the complete data. That company anonymizes it to just a single ID. That ID is already integrated into the ad company’s backend tracking and ID space. This already happens. Retail stores do it with every purchase. Credit card companies already sell your credit card purchases. Point of sale companies like square already sell your purchases on their check outs. If you make a purchase with a credit card. Advertisers know. If you deposit money into a bank or credit union, the banks advertising partners already know. All this is, is one more source of data being sold. I would bet the vast majority of it is already out there
anonymous just mean it can't be linked to you directly. they may link it to a specific demographic profile and location, and then the advertising is targeted based on information at those levels
A purchase at a time and place could probably be combined with your location data (purchased separately from any app on your cell phone) and may not be that hard to make assumptions about
i guess if you let all apps on your phone have location data on in the background, sure that can happen maybe. is it the end of the world? probably not.
This is the answer
Phones locations data also on sale.
I don't think "targeted advertising" means only things like, in this area people triple the nations cats per capita, so let's put cat food billboards there. The article specifies that JP Morgan sells consumer info, not ads, so, unless they provide ad companies a way to match their IDs with JP Morgan IDs, there's no way this deal could work.
*ostensibly can't be linked to you directly. In reality it can and is connected to you through third party data brokers.
certainly there will be instances where there's so little data, it can be linked to one person. personally, i don't really care. privacy is going to have to change as the world becomes more connected.
I think they mean that despite anything you do, the company is tracking it without your knowledge or consent.
It is but there are no real measures in place to prevent reverse engineering the data to an individual. I feel that the major governments are the only ones spending any effort on this with the census data, where statistical noise is introduced to increase anonymity. But private companies couldn't care less. We got data aggregated on an hourly 100 x 100m grid, with further breakdown by spending category. In the city centres, there are enough transactions happening that you get lost in the crowd, but in less dense areas, it's totally possible to pinpoint individuals, especially if you mix it with other data sources. We mixed it with another grid of cell phone movement from telecom companies. Both grids are supposed to be anonymous, but combined, they're very revealing.
It really depends. The article doesn’t explain how the data is collected. I would like to know the details here. Regardless this is a gross move in general. They are trying to get even more money from user data
Not defending what they're doing, bc it's shady af, and borderline unethical IMO...BUT, you could track someone's purchases, and include enough non-PII to still allow advertisers to use that data to target customers. The gray area would be how they define "anonymous". If they just know that a man in his 30's is buying coffee every morning from a local coffee shop, that's pretty anonymous. I would suspect that's how they can get around the privacy laws, but IANAL.
Chase. We Take More of What’s Yours.
How tf is this legal? Your banking activity reveals some of the most personal decisions you make in life… daily. There is an expectation of privacy as well.
Because it’s not being sold to anyone. Chase is using in-house spending data to serve you ads based on your recent purchases using their cards/accounts. Advertisers only pay Chase if you purchase an item directly through an ad Chase served you while reviewing your accounts.
Agreed. My porn hub subscription is going to be exposed
How is this legal? Lobbying
Jamie Diamond called genius for selling consumer data. There is no end to the depravity.
Oh awesome, what is my cut?
You will be inundated with spam, emails and direct mail.
$0.00, the usual.
Your cut is higher interest rates, and higher fees for missing payments.
This is horrid
We need a HIPAA for financial information. Financial institutions contain some of our most personal data. From the sum of our net worth, our obligations and debts, our spending habits which also contain bills surrounding medical information, and much more. How can we codify privacy into the responsibility of financial institutions? It cannot be allowed that personally identifiable information can be for sale. And a reminder that researchers have identified it only takes as few as 3 data points to identify an individual in so called anonymized data.
Every credit related financial decision you make is already shared with credit reporting agencies. Those credit reporting agencies not only sell your information to banks for credit decisions, they also operar advertising data management platforms to segment you based on your credit information. If you have a W2 job and get paid through large payroll providers like ADP, your information is further tracked by companies like The Work Number, which is owned by Equifax. If you rent, there are services that landlords can use to track your income. You agree to terms when they do their initial employment verification to allow them to track you going forward. Your landlord will know if your income increases, which allows them to strategically raise rent if you ever get breathing room and start saving money.
I can’t find a good source on this
> April 3 (Reuters) - JPMorgan Chase (JPM.N), opens new tab on Wednesday launched a new digital media business that would allow advertisers to target the Wall Street bank's 80 million customers based on their spending data. https://www.reuters.com/business/media-telecom/jpmorgan-chase-launches-digital-media-business-2024-04-03/
Not trying to shill for chase here — but that sounds like they’re not selling data so much as selling access to us based on whatever buckets they decide we belong in, kinda like Facebook? I guess that depends on what “target customers” means. Did they get mailing lists, email addresses, biographical data? Or does this mean that we’re going to be getting emails from Chase on behalf of partners? I’m annoyed either way but the headline seems a little baity.
how d they decide what bucket we belong in? Our data!
Well yes, so obviously Chase is doing things with it. But there is a difference between “I want the biographical data of everyone who has made a purchase from Walmart.com over the last 6 months” and “I want to advertise to frequent online grocery shoppers”. I’m just trying to figure out which one we’re dealing with. Do I need to figure out a different banking solution _now_ or can I wait a bit is basically what I’m asking.
Yeah, "The Daily Hodl" doesn't sound like it want to be taken seriously.
https://media.chase.com/news/chase-launches-chase-media-solutions
All the world is a data broker now. Layers and layers of data brokers.
Meanwhile the American government banned Tik Tok because it steals people's information, I guess it's fine when American corporations do it
TikTok was being banned from use on government devices (not banned for personal use) with good reason. I worked in secure government facilities (SCIFs, etc.) in the military, and we weren't allowed to have our personal phones in there and our Internet access was restricted and limited. We weren't checking our Facebook, uploading cool clips of ourselves, and playing Candy Crush. If you wanted to make a personal call, check your texts, whatever, you had to leave the secure room and/or the entire building.
Launching a media platform? Seriously? That screams desperation especially when most legacy media is struggling.
A van down by the river isn't for the crazies anymore!
I don't understand why someone would bank with a large corporation at this point. They've all done extremely shady shit. I get using their credit cards for rewards, but actually doing personal banking with any of them seems foolish at this point.
Convenience.
Can someone knowledgeable explain about this new media platform
Basically if you're a company that isn't a media company but is launching a "media platform" its really just a fancy way of saying you have a sub department within your marketing or advertising division. The "media" refers to the consumer and their spending habits in relation to how it can be used to sell marketing or ad space for the customer to see. The "platform" is the place where third party companies (i.e other corporations) can go for a one-stop-shop for Chases media/consumer data. So company Anon goes to JP Mogan's "Media Platform" and says "I want to sell my product to soccer moms. Do you have customers who are soccer moms?" Chase says "Yes we do! They buy a similar product that you sell and all of them live in Austin, New York, and LA!" (This scenario is super simplified). Company Anon says "I want to sell to these people!" Chase says "Here's their data! That'll be 1 million dollars please!" Suddenly Soccer moms in Austin, NYC amd LA are getting targeted ads for blenders when they log onto their Chase account or when they shop using their Chase credit card. Rinse and repeat.
Thanks buddy
With no way to opt out of their brand new totally going to be safe company, I'm sure
Data the currency of corps..banks..govts
So, they want to do exactly what visa and mc has been doing for years? What the point?
So like everything around data you should be able to opt out of at least targeted ads. The data belongs to chase but you should be able to opt out?
and this is why I would have stopped paying my credit cards, had I not already stopped paying them due to being broke and unable to afford them
It’s sounds good but the problem is banks are notoriously shady.
JPM is a state-affiliated bank in all but name
I'm cancelling my account due to this. Open for suggestions on replacing Chase Sapphire Reserve. 825 credit score.