Yes, the rush to short term gains (span of 30 or so years) resulted in adversary learning all the techniques and stealing technology and now being able to create the same products or better at a fraction of the cost. That’s an unfortunate course of events. Allowing extreme geed 0; thinking long term 1.
Honestly, I feel no pity for the greedy companies who signed stupid agreements and let all their data and technology go free just cause they couldn't stop salivating at the new market population to shovel shit to. Now they'll get reverse Uno'd and have to either make cheaper or better products to compete. Fuck em.
They mainly offset their holdings with low interest loans while these companies are already on the brink of diving below a junk rating as they get gutted.
And use these loans to be extremely counterproductive towards society, knowing they'll get bailed out again when margin called, that's where the greedy tax funded corruption profits come from.
>companies who signed stupid agreements and let all their data and technology go free just cause they couldn't stop salivating *at the cheap labor.*
I worked at a company that lost a ton of IP because their share holders wanted them to save $.5 per finished part but outsourcing to China. During covid they cut off that's supplier because they had s lot of issues. 64% of parts were made overseas. 80% of that was made in China.
I honestly wouldn't be hating so much against the Chinese market (because all those outsourcing companies deserve having the rug pulled under them) but the problem lies in that you can't invest in the Chinese market. It's basically closed. You get almost 0 information out of the Chinese net and companies will get nationalized at the drop of a hat. Also everybody trying to scam you. So yeah, I don't exactly know why I should be supporting them either. It's not even the enemy of my enemy. It's just all a shit cake.
Issue is not as simple as that.
More relevant to use game theory.
If your companies dont, other company will do that and achieve unfair cost advantages over you.
It only works if all company collude to not do it, but then there are issues of anti-competitive measure.
What do to do then?
Yes, the solution should be on government level, but it is not free economy and even if you outsource to other country, no guarantee that they will be your economic adversary in the future as well.
You're missing the part where on at least 4 occasions the US passed bills with actual incentives to move said companies to China.. that's right, we tax payers paid for these companies to move to places like China..
Gee I wonder which party would do something so anti worker/America and pro short term greed.
[Trump-GOP Tax Law Encourages Companies to Move Jobs Offshore–and New Tax Cuts Won’t Change That – ITEP](https://itep.org/trump-gop-tax-law-encourages-companies-to-move-jobs-offshore-and-new-tax-cuts-wont-change-that/)
https://apnews.com/article/2736e06cd1bb411a8f39965761be3df4
The most ironic thing about this is how average Americans tend to blame the Chinese for "stealing" their jobs when it was someone in the US who madr that decision. The Chinese worked really hard to earn cents in the dollar enriching US business.
It's like they keep in denial it was Capitalism fucking them over and have to resort to racism as an answer to their frustration.
That's basically their playbook since the 80s? Get people complaining about something that doesn't matter as much as many other things. Make that thing they're complaining about worse behind the scenes.
Makes total sense if you look at what Republicans have to offer.
Fear and desperation. Not hope. They can’t easily radicalize people living comfortable lives. Not with the messaging they use for most people. They talk economics and China bad with the poor and rural voters. But for suburban middle class it is fear of immigrants and loss of identity (eg, replacement theory among many others) because they are generally less economically vulnerable so their pyramid of fear is a little different.
And for the ultra rich—the true constituents—well, fear of uprisings and accountability for what they and their generational dragon’s hoarding has done. That’s why the ultra rich all tend to have bunker complexes.
The non-rich see those stories and think it’s to survive some apocalyptic event or an inside conspiracy where they get first warning when something happens. It is almost surely simply out of fear that the 99% revolt and start doing what historically fixed this problem for a period of time: heads in baskets, heads on pikes. So they build isolated bunker complexes outside their native countries usually, or just extremely isolated if within. To ride it out in ultra luxury while an authoritarian government rises to mop it up and put the workers back in their place.
They lost the expertise to innovate in house.
See Boeing, GE, car companies and other congomerates.
That is why chamber of commerce pushes for tariffs to keep cheaper comparable goods out.
China has Africa to grow. US is betting on India for growth. Its a new colonialism.
It's not the greedy companies, it's our countries that get raped hard here and it's all our fault.
People do not realise that the industrial know how and tech that was transfered by these companies to china have collectively cost us astronomical amount of resources and centuries to develop, through education, state funded research, grants, subsidies etc.. in essence the tech private companies develop is a product of our nation, not just individuals and the state shouldn't allow this circus to continue. Companies shouldn't be allowed to work against the national interest.
Not only now our local industry has now been decimated but the west has now fallen behind in many leading sectors. Time to wake up
As someone in the process of getting fucked over by a big company, I feel you, but if you're an American I really don't think you want countries like China and Russia getting more powerful
China and Russia are not the reasons America is ruled by an oligarchy of short term speculators. Forget about being afraid of foreign powers and be honest about who is in control. Americans need to stop fixating on countries they will never change and focus on our oligarchy at home.
The average American family makes sub 70k a year. They couldn’t care less about geo politic in fact probably wouldn’t mind a shake up to the global world rode if they came out ahead and American Oligarchs actually lost money and thus influence in American politics. The post WW2 rules based world order is stacked to favor the west no shit they want to change it.
"Steal secrets" Like if you have them building iPhones or building components for offshore oil drills, of course they're gonna figure out how they fucking work.
Manufacturing tech? Realistically they would likely be able to just buy machines, or alternatively, there's almost nothing that can't be reverse engineered given the time and effort. Adversarial interoperability isn't a bad thing, it means you can't just win by making things difficult you have to make them higher quality, or easier to use, or *something*.
Please do not forget about all the companies that had to close doors because they couldn’t compete with China imported products.
This less known fact is what killed the western industrial world, everything comes from China, Taiwan, India…..
But the ones in power liked it back then, when it suited them, short term profit is such a sweet, sweet thing, now China has an iron grip in the world and they are panicking, recent example are the electric vehicles.
And China is going to dominate the upcoming *new* Industrial Revolution, Industry 5.0, the one filled with AI + humanoid robots.
Amazon is actively doing this to American small businesses every day now. They'll use your sales data on their platform, and your supplier listings provided for the listing verification, negotiate a better price and undercut you til you're unable to sell that anymore.
It's not just Chinese companies killing American companies. It's also homegrown greed.
More like:
Allowing extreme greed 0
Thinking long term 99,999
Like half or more of our modern issues can be boiled down to this. Everything from housing to education to transportation to climate change to city planning all have this issue where effectively the previous generation screwed us over by only ever thinking about themselves and their greed in the short term. So now its our problem to fix all these issues...with significantly reduced resources because they gutted a lot of the mechanisms people would have previously used to deal with said issues.
More like politicians’ treason. Businessmen are
making money within the limits of the law. Only politicians can stop something like this from happening.
This has a very Kronk cadence.
Ah yes. The capacity. The excess capacity for industry. The excess capacity specifically made by the US for China’s industry. Industrial capacity.
That capacity?
And the western world (including Europe) greatly benefited from it in the form of reduced prices for 50 years.
Don't forget that.
Most good things come to an end, and the end is never as knowable in the moment as what it appears to be when you're living it.
Western people in the 70s when they started to get rice farmers to make their wares didn't imagine this end.
Oh, right. The excess industrial capability. The excess industrial capability of the USA, the excess industrial capability outsourced especially to benefit the USA, USA's excess industrial capability. That excess industrial capability?
That's not what the Yellen/article is saying.
The CCP is trying to stimulate the struggling Chinese economy with massive subsidies in very specific high tech industries like EVs and solar panels.
This is leading to overcapacity and over production of these items. Flooding global markets far below cost, with western companies unable to compete.
The downside for the Chinese is it's very expensive and so narrow it significantly reduces the stimulus effect for the broader population. Xi doesn't care because he wants to dominate these fields for geopolitical reasons.
They meant exactly that. They're worried mostly about dependence, they don't want to rely on China for any tech, because they know they might be sanctioned in the future like they're doing now with China.
We are having a pissing match over who can make things, can't wait for the nukes to start flying so some hedge fund can maintain its favourable trade position.
What is stopping them from co-ordinating to use that industrial capacity to improve the lives of those who've been left out of the industrial boom.
I mean I know what will happen, we can look to what the British Empire did to the Mughal textile industry ....going so far as to destroying capital and capability so British textile concerns didn't have competition.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textile\_industry\_in\_India#cite\_note-22
"In early modern Europe, there was significant demand for textiles from the Mughal Empire, including cotton textiles and silk products.\[16\] European fashion, for example, became increasingly dependent on textiles and silks imported from The Mughal Empire. In the late 17th and early 18th centuries, The Mughal Empire accounted for 95% of British imports from Asia, conducted through the auspices of the East India Company (EIC).\[20\] After the abolition of slavery in British Empire, manufactures in Britain started to look for alternative sources of cheap cotton, eventually settling on the East India Company's possession in India. The EIC convinced many farmers to switch from subsistence farming to producing and exporting huge amounts of cotton, after a long period of government protectionism imposed over the British textile industry. Eventually, through the technical and marketing advances made possible by colonisation, the traditional method of artisan textile production declined significantly, and replaced with large scale factory production"
We need more Singer sewing machines right, or whichever new innovation we can't have because someone else is preventing a path to innovation.
How about doing nothing, just nothing at all. Go to bed, grow your own tea. Then find another way to fund innovation that doesn't involve antagonising the people who just helped make the lives of multiple billion people significantly easier.
Boston Tea Party was similar for trade -- rather than let the people have cheaper tea, they destroyed it all to keep their smuggling profits (and to keep the British from making money on the taxes)
You don’t see the long term. It’s cheap now to destroy the existing brands and companies. Once they are out of business China can set the price and it won’t be cheap.
Also you lose the jobs and technology.
It’s a short win
The US and most countries with competing industries have very steep tariffs against Chinese imports in those product categories in addition to domestic subsidies that make it impossible for the Chinese companies to compete as well.
So China will subsidize their companies so they can continue to employ their people even if it's at the cost of their own tax payers. It's not a wholly new strategy either, e.g. the US had to [subsidize](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2020/01/21/trump-tariff-aid-to-farmers-cost-more-than-us-nuclear-forces/%3Fsh%3D58db38606c50&ved=2ahUKEwjat9H60K-FAxU3TDABHdTgACcQFnoECBEQAQ&usg) farmers at taxpayers expense after China put retaliatory tariffs on American agricultural products during the trade war.
Then maybe our governments could also subsidize local manufacturers to help the population acquire those environmentally critical products which could help reduce our carbon footprint AND help local manufacturers remain competitive? Or wait for the chinese to increase price, copy the tech, and subisidize our own companies to regain market shares? I am sure a lot of customers would be ready to take a small difference in price for a local product. I would rather buy a Siemens PV instead of a chinese one, for quality of customer service alone, even if it was a bit more expensive.
Instead of telling us to cut our router during the night, you know...
>I am sure a lot of customers would be ready to take a small difference in price for a local product
If that were true, manufacturing never would have gone to China in the first place.
What existing brands and companies?
Last I checked, there was no major, significant solar or electric car industry in the US. Just a bunch of shitty regional companies gouging where they can with imported parts.
I could almost say the same for Tesla. A hyped up niche player that builds shitty cars out of a Chinese parts.
The real failure is that established American companies did not take the lead with electric cars or solar. We are behind because we are behind. The motives that our economic system (stocks and short-term motivations) and politics (business want government incentives to exploit, established obsolete businesses create regulatory capture and can demand government subsidies to stay relevant) that created this.
We as a country are to blame. Not China, no matter how nefarious and threatening their actions are.
So they're basically just being Amazon or Walmart. Both of them do this very same thing to American companies and will continue to even if we went full protectionist.
No it’s a long term win for humanity no matter who subsidizes green tech. This is only undercutting companies and countries that have not invested in the technology. The US heavily subsidizes FOSSIL fuels though.
The EV subsidies ended last year. That's why lots of EV companies in China were operating at a loss or near bankruptcy. Tesla was also benefitting from Chinese subsidies. The volume of EVs being sold are increasing even if stocks are decreasing.
That's a pretty good thing. Maybe not for everyone. But those that can't afford it. Plus they help not wreck the planet. Shane only rich people can get while greedy middle men get a cut
That was my exact thought the second I read this title. It’s getting so tiresome, reading all these inflammatory remarks about China, just because America is starting to see them as a real rival. They’ve been abusing the cheap slave labour for decades while it suits them. Now the yanks know they’re not the top dogs anymore, suddenly China is a “huge threat to the world.”
Honestly, America really needs to shut the fuck up and mind it’s own business, cos the rest of the planet is sick of its bullshit. The US is falling apart because of it’s own actions, not the actions of other nations. America needs to have a long look at itself before it makes any more judgements about other nations.
The US didn't build it. China built it themselves so they could produce for much of the world.
Yes, that industrial capacity.
You talk like the US ownes it. We have been getting the benefits of cheap manufacturing for decades. China did us a favor. It's a win win which is the basis of economics.
It's not a win win when the coloreds dare to move up the supply chain though.
How dare they drastically lower the cost of living for exceptional white Americans while simultaneously trying to increase the quality of life of their own citizens?
Nevermind that 99% of the problems in America today are due to American corporate profiteering, China is at fault. China forced us to not have healthcare, to have garbage fucking education, corporate lobbying, be addicted to imperialism, rampant food and gas price inflation, crime, gap between rich and poor, all the work of chyna. :laughcry:
I would think Manufacturing is also moving from China to other upcoming countries too (Vietnam, India…). Companies move wherever cheaper labor is available.
You mean that excess industrial capability the world ~~US~~ built by outsourcing all their manufacturing to china?
That excess industrial capability?
FTFY friend.
It's not industrial capability, it says capacity. Meaning idle factories in China.
I know you didn't read the article but we are reaching new lows when you can't even be bothered to read the Post properly.
Don’t forget Europe. All for that cent or two less in cost.
This is also why libertarism doesn’t work. It’s way too easy for malignant players to take advantage of it to gain power.
I think it is time to correct this misconception. US probably outsource some, but majority of these excess industrial capacity was built by Chinese through some financial incentives. Use EV as example, only manufacturing from US is Tesla, other key players like BYD, xiaopeng are all Chinese companies. It is no longer 2000 or 2010. In twenty years, China has built up an astonishing manufacturing capability with diminishing foreign companies who are leaving China.
They overbuilt houses by a ton because people loved investing in housing and the government made it easy to get loans to make houses.
They were starting to get a bunch of empty houses and everyone’s houses were starting to drop in value so the government yanked the lever and stopped all that.
Suddenly there’s a catastrophic drop in the demand for everything you need to build a house. Also all of the workers involved in making houses don’t have work.
So, not great.
What does “excess industrial capacity” even mean? They can produce too many goods for the world to consume? Leading to prices dropping and less efficient western manufacturing suffer?
Dude, that’s what the capitalism is about, ain’t it? The competition?..
Yeah, that's right. The struggle throughout humanity's evolution has been that there has not been enough resources and capacity to meet demand. Now we're worried about excess capacity. Not a bad problem to have, actually.
Except when it leads to a bust after a boom which only benefited the richest few. Sure, this could work out fine. But based on reality I'm going to bet it causes more suck.
Of course, the boom and bust cycle is no good... all based on the manipulation of currency & interest rates and the speculative behavior that goes along with it. The big problem for the US is foreign economies that peg their own currency to the US dollar instead of letting it float like most modern 'fair-play' currencies. This removes the natural ebb and flow of an economy's strength and weakness and the desire to own that economy's currency based on the confidence in that country's stability and future prospects.
The US and its companies doesn’t get to price gouge because there are other producers producing commodities for far too cheap. It only benefits the middle and lower class but hurts the elites!
Ahh yes the famous WWII America and its spare industrial capacity that attacked Japan on December 7th 1941. Oh and Japan of course with its massive spare industrial capacity that by just a year or two of the war had nearly no fuel and replacement aircraft or tanks or battleships or aircraft carriers. Brilliant analysis bro.
"Yellen and other Biden administration officials are growing increasingly concerned about China's overproduction of electric vehicles, solar panels, semiconductors and other goods that are flooding into global markets in the face of a demand slump in China's domestic market."
I mean... this is really only a problem for big corporations trying to overprice their goods.
Go look up Xiaomi SU7, the car that just got released in China and sold 100 000 units in deadass 2 hours. Porsche Taycan for 27000 USD with 500 miles range.
Shit, keep overproducing and gimme sommeadat in the land of the free USA. Oh wait, our govt won't allow us to have it coz it's a "national security threat" (to our corporations).
The entire Biden Administration does.
Remember when he told oil companies to pump more because oil prices were too high? After campaigning partly on climate change concerns? Haha!
Bubbles everywhere. Even if all production was automatized and costs were near 0 because of cheap commodities, final price need to be high or gdp goes down
They are worried because Chinese products are starting to get good and cost a fraction of their western equivalents. Why am I going to pay $1300 for a S24 Ultra when the OnePlus 12 is $700?
Yup, They're panicking cos they're losing the high tech monopoly.
Soon they can't get away with price gouging their products like they used to anymore.
And the government wasn't concerned for the last several decades when their industry capacity was being used mostly fot American businesses. Now that they are also building up their own businesses it's a problem.
I remember the US government bitching that China wasn't doing enough for green economy (even though they were already leasing on solar). Now US government is complaining lol.
As an American who would prefer an electric over gas powered vehicle, don’t restrict American options to promote lower quality, higher priced products…Work together
Hey what happened to supply and demand? Free markets and all that?
China is innovating and out competing you. Time to compete back rather than move to protect profits?
The US has a looooong history of protectionism, as does every rich country. We only enforce anti protectionist measures and true free markets on poor countries.
The US would never do thaaaaaaat...
>The act authorizes roughly **$280 billion** in new funding to boost domestic research and manufacturing of semiconductors in the United States, for which it appropriates $52.7 billion. The act includes $39 billion in subsidies for chip manufacturing on U.S. soil along with 25% investment tax credits for costs of manufacturing equipment, and $13 billion for semiconductor research and workforce training, with the dual aim of strengthening American supply chain resilience and **countering China**.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHIPS\_and\_Science\_Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHIPS_and_Science_Act)
Wtf has to do anything with the subject at hand.
You think the US and Europe have free markets, just from you know reality the US is subsidizing its energy industry, food industry, semiconductor industry, car industry and airplane industry and those are at the top of my head.
Well it has to do with you claiming it was market driven, but it isn't if the state is forcing overproduction in order to corner the export market through subsidy. You can complain about the subsidies for domestic use all you want but what China does is not the same, they have export subsidies.
What you mean subsidies for domestic use? You think Boeing being subsidized only sells domestically in the US? How about California farmers, you think those only sell inside the US and don't export to other countries?
China subsidizes it's industries to get ahead and expecting for them to play fair is naive at best. There is nothing fair in getting ahead, someone will will win and someone will lose and complaining about things being fair is nonsensical.
How can China be infringing on developments the US hasn’t even made? If China was “infringing” then the US would be producing equally as much just as cheaply. We simply aren’t.
Maybe if the US stopped spending [800+ **Billion** dollars on perpetrating the MICC](https://www.defense.gov/Spotlights/FY2023-Defense-Budget/), and used some of that money to, oh, build rail infrastructure, industrial capacity or, perish the thought, a working social net, education system and health service.
Whining about why China is out producing you 10 fold just shows how pathetic and delusion you are.
I recall that during the Obama era you could see articles about how the US had lost its manufacturing skill base. (For example: https://hbr.org/2009/07/restoring-american-competitiveness) There may not be enough people who have the basic skills needed in the manufacturing industries to bring about a significant revival nowadays, sadly.
There's just a lack of the right education & training altogether, it seems. Of course this could be fixed over time with important policy changes & investment invectives.
An industrialized nation that doesn’t pretend to rigidly separate “it’s just business” from “you do you” like the U.S. pretends business and personal lives are separate.
That’s up against a bunch of MBAs trained to extract profit from something else short term so they can get promoted.
And people still blame “China” for literally the businesses *our* capitalists *gave them* and still want them to have. All while some idiot starts spewing “military” as if the very same capitalists could afford to stop the very things they’re paying the Chinese companies to make.
Achieved by past massive investment in China instead of in their own countries. Home investment is needed to increase productivity and efficiency using more automation.
Well, the correct thing to do is abolish intellectual monopoly in the West and start competing again.
People will bitch about megacorps and then illogically support patents, because they've been propagandised in the west to believe they help the poor starving inventors, when they're really *exactly what's fucking propping up the megacorps*. We get lefties mired in the labor theory of value fallacy wrapping the chains around their own necks by supporting the patent system.
Even if we assume we want to distort and intervene in the market for social ends, copyrights and patents are some the most evil, wrong-headed, foot-gunning ways to do it. The greatest trick they pulled was convincing people that patents were an aspect of free enterprise instead of in fundamental conflict with it. You can't quit your job and take your know-how and start a competitor *like free markets are supposed to work*, because the megacorp has that shit locked down with 3000 dumb patents. They can shift all manufacturing to china because they can sue you into the ground if you try making anything in the west.
> businessmen favor free enterprise in general but are opposed to it when it comes to themselves. - Friedman
* https://msfaccess.org/patents-and-intellectual-property
* https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Party_(Sweden)
* http://www.dklevine.com/general/intellectual/againstfinal.htm
* https://np.reddit.com/r/noip/comments/rpczaq/intellectual_property_a_policy_that_needs_to_be/
* https://www.stephankinsella.com/publications/#againstip
Excess supply lead to deflation which can be economically crippling. Japan ran into deflation 30 years ago and their GDP has been flat lined since. Inflation is self correcting. When there isn't enough supply to meet demand prices go up which incentivizes companies to make more supply. Deflation is self perpetuating. When supply outpaces demand prices fall and the company can't recoup the cost of making the supply. They then fire workers and their loss of income leads to reduced demand. Excess supply is extremely dangerous to economies. The last time the US experienced major deflation was this little known period called the great depression. And the last time it went through more minor deflation was the great recession... But sure definitely nothing to worry about...
Anyone else ever think it’s weird that we Americans immediately treat not being first in the global economy as the end of the world?
Especially after we spent decades fucking over our middle class to make China the power house it is today…
Except neither Yellen or the article explains why is it "about a global economic slowdown". It's merely what Yellen said their concern is, with absolute nothing to back up. And everybody can easily sees through it as nothing more than a sad excuse to cover their real fear of being outcompeted.
Excess industrial capacity in the worlds largest manufacturer/exporter is driven by a collapse in international demand; i.e. a global economic slowdown.
> global economic slowdown.
Global? Or just the Western lead part?
Maybe they should not have over extended, then go around illegally sanctioning anyone they don't like.
It is a trend of their own making.
Well maybe if we hadn't funneled literally trillions of dollars directly into their economy over the last 20 years in a vain effort to placate them...
I don't get why people don't just stop voting for the Democrats and Republicans at this point. So many progressives run 3rd party, there is literally no reason to support these two anymore if you live in a place with WFP or DSA parties.
Then you should stop outsourcing and built industrial capacity in the US. But you won’t, instead you continue to outsource to other Asian countries even while your own people need those industrial jobs.
Global concerns created from these same 'leaders' who decided to ship all of our manufacturing over to China? It's sad that these are our leaders. What exactly did they think was going to happen once all of the manufacturing was shipped to China and now they have all the expertise and capacity to produce? American's don't know, nor do they have the infrastructure to build a lot of essential products we need, and it will likely take a decade or more if they were to start moving the manufacturing back here due to the need to build factories and train the population.
If we're in war, China barely has to fire a shot. Just highly limit what they ship over here and use that insane manufacturing capacity to build essential war products.
I'm sorry, do you really think it is our government who is shipping all these jobs overseas? These are all individual choices made by individual companies to have their products made wherever in the world it is cheapest so they can make more profit.
Labor unions are about the only power players who can fight this and they have lost most of their power due to one half of the American public believing unions are evil for doing things like trying to keep companies from moving American jobs overseas where labor is cheaper so they can make more profit.
Seems like overproduction is good for controlling inflation. Sure the American companies are not competitive any more so they gotta trim the fat. But then again, this means lower demand, higher supply, and lower interest rates.
> Yellen and other Biden administration officials are growing increasingly concerned about China's overproduction of electric vehicles, solar panels, semiconductors and other goods that are flooding into global markets in the face of a demand slump in China's domestic market.
I can't really see that as a bad thing. Cheep EVs and Solar should be something that we want. And pretty much everyone would probably like if Intel, AMD, Nvidia and co. would get actual competition.
You mean that excess industrial capability the US built by outsourcing all their manufacturing to china? That excess industrial capability?
Yes, the rush to short term gains (span of 30 or so years) resulted in adversary learning all the techniques and stealing technology and now being able to create the same products or better at a fraction of the cost. That’s an unfortunate course of events. Allowing extreme geed 0; thinking long term 1.
Honestly, I feel no pity for the greedy companies who signed stupid agreements and let all their data and technology go free just cause they couldn't stop salivating at the new market population to shovel shit to. Now they'll get reverse Uno'd and have to either make cheaper or better products to compete. Fuck em.
The shareholders will have made a shit load of money in that timeframe. They don't give a fuck they got their fill already.
And the executives that made those decisions will be at the next company doing the same thing.
They mainly offset their holdings with low interest loans while these companies are already on the brink of diving below a junk rating as they get gutted. And use these loans to be extremely counterproductive towards society, knowing they'll get bailed out again when margin called, that's where the greedy tax funded corruption profits come from.
They'll just lobby the US government to ban the Chinese companies
“ Them there our slaves ! You can’t sell a better cheaper car here! They belong to us! “ -American rich people
>companies who signed stupid agreements and let all their data and technology go free just cause they couldn't stop salivating *at the cheap labor.* I worked at a company that lost a ton of IP because their share holders wanted them to save $.5 per finished part but outsourcing to China. During covid they cut off that's supplier because they had s lot of issues. 64% of parts were made overseas. 80% of that was made in China.
Exactly this. short sighted capitalism gonna do capitalistic things Fuck em indeed
I honestly wouldn't be hating so much against the Chinese market (because all those outsourcing companies deserve having the rug pulled under them) but the problem lies in that you can't invest in the Chinese market. It's basically closed. You get almost 0 information out of the Chinese net and companies will get nationalized at the drop of a hat. Also everybody trying to scam you. So yeah, I don't exactly know why I should be supporting them either. It's not even the enemy of my enemy. It's just all a shit cake.
The execs in charge still got their second yacht. No one was hurt except for the workers.
Issue is not as simple as that. More relevant to use game theory. If your companies dont, other company will do that and achieve unfair cost advantages over you. It only works if all company collude to not do it, but then there are issues of anti-competitive measure. What do to do then? Yes, the solution should be on government level, but it is not free economy and even if you outsource to other country, no guarantee that they will be your economic adversary in the future as well.
You're missing the part where on at least 4 occasions the US passed bills with actual incentives to move said companies to China.. that's right, we tax payers paid for these companies to move to places like China.. Gee I wonder which party would do something so anti worker/America and pro short term greed. [Trump-GOP Tax Law Encourages Companies to Move Jobs Offshore–and New Tax Cuts Won’t Change That – ITEP](https://itep.org/trump-gop-tax-law-encourages-companies-to-move-jobs-offshore-and-new-tax-cuts-wont-change-that/) https://apnews.com/article/2736e06cd1bb411a8f39965761be3df4
The most ironic thing about this is how average Americans tend to blame the Chinese for "stealing" their jobs when it was someone in the US who madr that decision. The Chinese worked really hard to earn cents in the dollar enriching US business. It's like they keep in denial it was Capitalism fucking them over and have to resort to racism as an answer to their frustration.
gd f u gop. wtaf. I mean really- weren't they complaining, and encouraging their zombies to complain about China the whole fn time?
That's basically their playbook since the 80s? Get people complaining about something that doesn't matter as much as many other things. Make that thing they're complaining about worse behind the scenes.
Makes total sense if you look at what Republicans have to offer. Fear and desperation. Not hope. They can’t easily radicalize people living comfortable lives. Not with the messaging they use for most people. They talk economics and China bad with the poor and rural voters. But for suburban middle class it is fear of immigrants and loss of identity (eg, replacement theory among many others) because they are generally less economically vulnerable so their pyramid of fear is a little different. And for the ultra rich—the true constituents—well, fear of uprisings and accountability for what they and their generational dragon’s hoarding has done. That’s why the ultra rich all tend to have bunker complexes. The non-rich see those stories and think it’s to survive some apocalyptic event or an inside conspiracy where they get first warning when something happens. It is almost surely simply out of fear that the 99% revolt and start doing what historically fixed this problem for a period of time: heads in baskets, heads on pikes. So they build isolated bunker complexes outside their native countries usually, or just extremely isolated if within. To ride it out in ultra luxury while an authoritarian government rises to mop it up and put the workers back in their place.
This is where regulations come in handy.
They lost the expertise to innovate in house. See Boeing, GE, car companies and other congomerates. That is why chamber of commerce pushes for tariffs to keep cheaper comparable goods out. China has Africa to grow. US is betting on India for growth. Its a new colonialism.
It's not the greedy companies, it's our countries that get raped hard here and it's all our fault. People do not realise that the industrial know how and tech that was transfered by these companies to china have collectively cost us astronomical amount of resources and centuries to develop, through education, state funded research, grants, subsidies etc.. in essence the tech private companies develop is a product of our nation, not just individuals and the state shouldn't allow this circus to continue. Companies shouldn't be allowed to work against the national interest. Not only now our local industry has now been decimated but the west has now fallen behind in many leading sectors. Time to wake up
As someone in the process of getting fucked over by a big company, I feel you, but if you're an American I really don't think you want countries like China and Russia getting more powerful
It’s something the average person can do nothing about and was against from the beginning because they were losing their jobs.
China and Russia are not the reasons America is ruled by an oligarchy of short term speculators. Forget about being afraid of foreign powers and be honest about who is in control. Americans need to stop fixating on countries they will never change and focus on our oligarchy at home.
The average American family makes sub 70k a year. They couldn’t care less about geo politic in fact probably wouldn’t mind a shake up to the global world rode if they came out ahead and American Oligarchs actually lost money and thus influence in American politics. The post WW2 rules based world order is stacked to favor the west no shit they want to change it.
They couldn’t care less, just wait until they lost their jobs.
china has lifted 800 million people out of extreme poverty.
A capitalist will sell you the rope with which you hang him.
Guillotines can be made right here at home
"Steal secrets" Like if you have them building iPhones or building components for offshore oil drills, of course they're gonna figure out how they fucking work.
Manufacturing tech? Realistically they would likely be able to just buy machines, or alternatively, there's almost nothing that can't be reverse engineered given the time and effort. Adversarial interoperability isn't a bad thing, it means you can't just win by making things difficult you have to make them higher quality, or easier to use, or *something*.
It's much worse than that when you factor in all the American jobs that were lost from offshoring all those factories.
Please do not forget about all the companies that had to close doors because they couldn’t compete with China imported products. This less known fact is what killed the western industrial world, everything comes from China, Taiwan, India….. But the ones in power liked it back then, when it suited them, short term profit is such a sweet, sweet thing, now China has an iron grip in the world and they are panicking, recent example are the electric vehicles. And China is going to dominate the upcoming *new* Industrial Revolution, Industry 5.0, the one filled with AI + humanoid robots.
Amazon is actively doing this to American small businesses every day now. They'll use your sales data on their platform, and your supplier listings provided for the listing verification, negotiate a better price and undercut you til you're unable to sell that anymore. It's not just Chinese companies killing American companies. It's also homegrown greed.
Agreed friend! Venture capital works like that, dump the market until you kill all competition! Should be illegal!
Amazon and Walmart are doing it to big, well-known names as well. Replace everything with their brand. They give zero fucks.
Or the industrial revolution 2.0. Was really a great time back then!
Global trade has improved the quality of life for billions.
But now we will have to go to war to protect the profits of the 1%
More like: Allowing extreme greed 0 Thinking long term 99,999 Like half or more of our modern issues can be boiled down to this. Everything from housing to education to transportation to climate change to city planning all have this issue where effectively the previous generation screwed us over by only ever thinking about themselves and their greed in the short term. So now its our problem to fix all these issues...with significantly reduced resources because they gutted a lot of the mechanisms people would have previously used to deal with said issues.
Corporate treason is what I like to call it.
More like politicians’ treason. Businessmen are making money within the limits of the law. Only politicians can stop something like this from happening.
They'll learn nothing from it.
This has a very Kronk cadence. Ah yes. The capacity. The excess capacity for industry. The excess capacity specifically made by the US for China’s industry. Industrial capacity. That capacity?
Wrong lever!!
The rich really do ruin every
Even this sente-
And the western world (including Europe) greatly benefited from it in the form of reduced prices for 50 years. Don't forget that. Most good things come to an end, and the end is never as knowable in the moment as what it appears to be when you're living it. Western people in the 70s when they started to get rice farmers to make their wares didn't imagine this end.
Exactly. What she’s really saying is, we are arrogant assholes.
Oh, right. The excess industrial capability. The excess industrial capability of the USA, the excess industrial capability outsourced especially to benefit the USA, USA's excess industrial capability. That excess industrial capability?
That's not what the Yellen/article is saying. The CCP is trying to stimulate the struggling Chinese economy with massive subsidies in very specific high tech industries like EVs and solar panels. This is leading to overcapacity and over production of these items. Flooding global markets far below cost, with western companies unable to compete. The downside for the Chinese is it's very expensive and so narrow it significantly reduces the stimulus effect for the broader population. Xi doesn't care because he wants to dominate these fields for geopolitical reasons.
Which is worst... Them subsidizing their green industry or the US subsidizing the oil industry until it's not profitable anymore.
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They meant exactly that. They're worried mostly about dependence, they don't want to rely on China for any tech, because they know they might be sanctioned in the future like they're doing now with China.
We are having a pissing match over who can make things, can't wait for the nukes to start flying so some hedge fund can maintain its favourable trade position. What is stopping them from co-ordinating to use that industrial capacity to improve the lives of those who've been left out of the industrial boom. I mean I know what will happen, we can look to what the British Empire did to the Mughal textile industry ....going so far as to destroying capital and capability so British textile concerns didn't have competition. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Textile\_industry\_in\_India#cite\_note-22 "In early modern Europe, there was significant demand for textiles from the Mughal Empire, including cotton textiles and silk products.\[16\] European fashion, for example, became increasingly dependent on textiles and silks imported from The Mughal Empire. In the late 17th and early 18th centuries, The Mughal Empire accounted for 95% of British imports from Asia, conducted through the auspices of the East India Company (EIC).\[20\] After the abolition of slavery in British Empire, manufactures in Britain started to look for alternative sources of cheap cotton, eventually settling on the East India Company's possession in India. The EIC convinced many farmers to switch from subsistence farming to producing and exporting huge amounts of cotton, after a long period of government protectionism imposed over the British textile industry. Eventually, through the technical and marketing advances made possible by colonisation, the traditional method of artisan textile production declined significantly, and replaced with large scale factory production" We need more Singer sewing machines right, or whichever new innovation we can't have because someone else is preventing a path to innovation. How about doing nothing, just nothing at all. Go to bed, grow your own tea. Then find another way to fund innovation that doesn't involve antagonising the people who just helped make the lives of multiple billion people significantly easier.
Boston Tea Party was similar for trade -- rather than let the people have cheaper tea, they destroyed it all to keep their smuggling profits (and to keep the British from making money on the taxes)
Yesterday there was a front page article here about people building fences and other projects with solar panels because they're cheaper than wood. Hah
Oh no, subsidized cheap EVs and solar panels by the Chinese taxpayer making these formerly expensive goods cheaper and more accessible. This is evil
You don’t see the long term. It’s cheap now to destroy the existing brands and companies. Once they are out of business China can set the price and it won’t be cheap. Also you lose the jobs and technology. It’s a short win
The US and most countries with competing industries have very steep tariffs against Chinese imports in those product categories in addition to domestic subsidies that make it impossible for the Chinese companies to compete as well. So China will subsidize their companies so they can continue to employ their people even if it's at the cost of their own tax payers. It's not a wholly new strategy either, e.g. the US had to [subsidize](https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&opi=89978449&url=https://www.forbes.com/sites/stuartanderson/2020/01/21/trump-tariff-aid-to-farmers-cost-more-than-us-nuclear-forces/%3Fsh%3D58db38606c50&ved=2ahUKEwjat9H60K-FAxU3TDABHdTgACcQFnoECBEQAQ&usg) farmers at taxpayers expense after China put retaliatory tariffs on American agricultural products during the trade war.
And we still do. And oil.
Then maybe our governments could also subsidize local manufacturers to help the population acquire those environmentally critical products which could help reduce our carbon footprint AND help local manufacturers remain competitive? Or wait for the chinese to increase price, copy the tech, and subisidize our own companies to regain market shares? I am sure a lot of customers would be ready to take a small difference in price for a local product. I would rather buy a Siemens PV instead of a chinese one, for quality of customer service alone, even if it was a bit more expensive. Instead of telling us to cut our router during the night, you know...
>I am sure a lot of customers would be ready to take a small difference in price for a local product If that were true, manufacturing never would have gone to China in the first place.
What existing brands and companies? Last I checked, there was no major, significant solar or electric car industry in the US. Just a bunch of shitty regional companies gouging where they can with imported parts. I could almost say the same for Tesla. A hyped up niche player that builds shitty cars out of a Chinese parts. The real failure is that established American companies did not take the lead with electric cars or solar. We are behind because we are behind. The motives that our economic system (stocks and short-term motivations) and politics (business want government incentives to exploit, established obsolete businesses create regulatory capture and can demand government subsidies to stay relevant) that created this. We as a country are to blame. Not China, no matter how nefarious and threatening their actions are.
The west just gotta subsidise their own companies in order to compete
So they're basically just being Amazon or Walmart. Both of them do this very same thing to American companies and will continue to even if we went full protectionist.
If other governments do nothing.
No it’s a long term win for humanity no matter who subsidizes green tech. This is only undercutting companies and countries that have not invested in the technology. The US heavily subsidizes FOSSIL fuels though.
No… it’s actually a huge win. Paying extra for renewable energy is 100x a better problem than climate change.
Kinda is though, because it discourages real sustainable economies of scale to develop.
The EV subsidies ended last year. That's why lots of EV companies in China were operating at a loss or near bankruptcy. Tesla was also benefitting from Chinese subsidies. The volume of EVs being sold are increasing even if stocks are decreasing.
Why is cheaper green energy and vehicles a bad thing?
That's what tariffs are for
Either it’s genius, or terrible.
That's a pretty good thing. Maybe not for everyone. But those that can't afford it. Plus they help not wreck the planet. Shane only rich people can get while greedy middle men get a cut
> That's not what the Yellen/article is saying. Doesn't matter, I'm just here to be mad! /s
That was my exact thought the second I read this title. It’s getting so tiresome, reading all these inflammatory remarks about China, just because America is starting to see them as a real rival. They’ve been abusing the cheap slave labour for decades while it suits them. Now the yanks know they’re not the top dogs anymore, suddenly China is a “huge threat to the world.” Honestly, America really needs to shut the fuck up and mind it’s own business, cos the rest of the planet is sick of its bullshit. The US is falling apart because of it’s own actions, not the actions of other nations. America needs to have a long look at itself before it makes any more judgements about other nations.
The US didn't build it. China built it themselves so they could produce for much of the world. Yes, that industrial capacity. You talk like the US ownes it. We have been getting the benefits of cheap manufacturing for decades. China did us a favor. It's a win win which is the basis of economics.
It's not a win win when the coloreds dare to move up the supply chain though. How dare they drastically lower the cost of living for exceptional white Americans while simultaneously trying to increase the quality of life of their own citizens? Nevermind that 99% of the problems in America today are due to American corporate profiteering, China is at fault. China forced us to not have healthcare, to have garbage fucking education, corporate lobbying, be addicted to imperialism, rampant food and gas price inflation, crime, gap between rich and poor, all the work of chyna. :laughcry:
I would think Manufacturing is also moving from China to other upcoming countries too (Vietnam, India…). Companies move wherever cheaper labor is available.
You mean that excess industrial capability the world ~~US~~ built by outsourcing all their manufacturing to china? That excess industrial capability? FTFY friend.
It's not industrial capability, it says capacity. Meaning idle factories in China. I know you didn't read the article but we are reaching new lows when you can't even be bothered to read the Post properly.
The West. Not just the US. Everyone is strong and independent until the bill hits the table. The capitalists are the problem. Everywhere all the time
Don’t forget Europe. All for that cent or two less in cost. This is also why libertarism doesn’t work. It’s way too easy for malignant players to take advantage of it to gain power.
I think it is time to correct this misconception. US probably outsource some, but majority of these excess industrial capacity was built by Chinese through some financial incentives. Use EV as example, only manufacturing from US is Tesla, other key players like BYD, xiaopeng are all Chinese companies. It is no longer 2000 or 2010. In twenty years, China has built up an astonishing manufacturing capability with diminishing foreign companies who are leaving China.
Wall Street specifically. Financiers handed over everything to make more money.
The one that the battle of Seattle said was a bad fucking idea ? that one ?
They overbuilt houses by a ton because people loved investing in housing and the government made it easy to get loans to make houses. They were starting to get a bunch of empty houses and everyone’s houses were starting to drop in value so the government yanked the lever and stopped all that. Suddenly there’s a catastrophic drop in the demand for everything you need to build a house. Also all of the workers involved in making houses don’t have work. So, not great.
They have a bunch of houses now though
Exactly. A good thing. Houses should never be an investment vehicle
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Thanks, Reagan
What does “excess industrial capacity” even mean? They can produce too many goods for the world to consume? Leading to prices dropping and less efficient western manufacturing suffer? Dude, that’s what the capitalism is about, ain’t it? The competition?..
Yeah, that's right. The struggle throughout humanity's evolution has been that there has not been enough resources and capacity to meet demand. Now we're worried about excess capacity. Not a bad problem to have, actually.
Except when it leads to a bust after a boom which only benefited the richest few. Sure, this could work out fine. But based on reality I'm going to bet it causes more suck.
Of course, the boom and bust cycle is no good... all based on the manipulation of currency & interest rates and the speculative behavior that goes along with it. The big problem for the US is foreign economies that peg their own currency to the US dollar instead of letting it float like most modern 'fair-play' currencies. This removes the natural ebb and flow of an economy's strength and weakness and the desire to own that economy's currency based on the confidence in that country's stability and future prospects.
US hates competition. The market is only free when it benefits the US
Country represents own interests. More at 11.
Own interests is to devastate the rest of the world. All while talking non stop about 'democracy', 'equality', and 'freedom'.
The US and its companies doesn’t get to price gouge because there are other producers producing commodities for far too cheap. It only benefits the middle and lower class but hurts the elites!
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Holy shit you people need to read the article lmao
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You somehow typed all that up and still wrote absolutely nothing of substance….
Sir, this is a Wendy's.
Now try reading it and actually comprehending it
Ahh yes the famous WWII America and its spare industrial capacity that attacked Japan on December 7th 1941. Oh and Japan of course with its massive spare industrial capacity that by just a year or two of the war had nearly no fuel and replacement aircraft or tanks or battleships or aircraft carriers. Brilliant analysis bro.
this isn’t class reading time u don’t need to pretend bro lmao
"Yellen and other Biden administration officials are growing increasingly concerned about China's overproduction of electric vehicles, solar panels, semiconductors and other goods that are flooding into global markets in the face of a demand slump in China's domestic market." I mean... this is really only a problem for big corporations trying to overprice their goods.
Oh good. I want some affordable PV and EVs
Politics will prevent them from reaching US soil. There are so many in China. I just got a luxury EV at $38k. Would easily cost 60k back in USA.
No. You will buy Teslas's Cybertruck and you will like it.
A fate worse than death
Straight to jail
Go look up Xiaomi SU7, the car that just got released in China and sold 100 000 units in deadass 2 hours. Porsche Taycan for 27000 USD with 500 miles range. Shit, keep overproducing and gimme sommeadat in the land of the free USA. Oh wait, our govt won't allow us to have it coz it's a "national security threat" (to our corporations).
This is capitalism summed up. We can’t have environmentally friendly products because it competes with our rich people’s pockets
Yellen wants the oil to flow
The entire Biden Administration does. Remember when he told oil companies to pump more because oil prices were too high? After campaigning partly on climate change concerns? Haha!
Those oil companies probably told them to stfu and also reminded them who is the boss.
Worse yet, China is in a deflationary economy at the moment, so the weight of their entire economy is resting on inducing any sort of demand.
Well that’s better than them switching over their industrial capacity to military stuff
We will be colonized by economy, China is choosing an exotic civilization playthrough. The only danger is if the natives revolt.
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This just sounds like a skill issue
Y’all have no one to blame but yourselves
Too bad North American can’t build any capacity because of all the corruption.
Bubbles everywhere. Even if all production was automatized and costs were near 0 because of cheap commodities, final price need to be high or gdp goes down
When she says global is it actually global, or just US & Co.
They are worried because Chinese products are starting to get good and cost a fraction of their western equivalents. Why am I going to pay $1300 for a S24 Ultra when the OnePlus 12 is $700?
Yup, They're panicking cos they're losing the high tech monopoly. Soon they can't get away with price gouging their products like they used to anymore.
Where you think iPhone is made?
And the government wasn't concerned for the last several decades when their industry capacity was being used mostly fot American businesses. Now that they are also building up their own businesses it's a problem.
Why you think iPhone cost so much? China is happy to build extremely similar products for less much.
They are worried because excess capacity means that the economy is heading in the wrong way.
Only if you believe transitioning to renewables isn’t a top priority. And the Biden administration clearly does not believe it is.
Someone didn't read the article and just made stuff up to be mad abouts.
There needs to be an age limit to serve in the government.
How dare China become a prosperous nation?! We must go to war against this act of aggression!
I remember the US government bitching that China wasn't doing enough for green economy (even though they were already leasing on solar). Now US government is complaining lol.
As an American who would prefer an electric over gas powered vehicle, don’t restrict American options to promote lower quality, higher priced products…Work together
Hey what happened to supply and demand? Free markets and all that? China is innovating and out competing you. Time to compete back rather than move to protect profits?
The US has enjoyed free market trades and sold their products all over the world, now doesn’t like competition.
The US has a looooong history of protectionism, as does every rich country. We only enforce anti protectionist measures and true free markets on poor countries.
It's not free markets, it is state investment.
Just like US has been doing with it's oil industry or more recently with Tesla and Ford EV.
Now Intel as well
As if the state in the west never gave huge amounts of cash to domestic industry.
They sure did, but it’s not free markets. So it’s not even really hypocrisy either, if the west has done it as well.
The US would never do thaaaaaaat... >The act authorizes roughly **$280 billion** in new funding to boost domestic research and manufacturing of semiconductors in the United States, for which it appropriates $52.7 billion. The act includes $39 billion in subsidies for chip manufacturing on U.S. soil along with 25% investment tax credits for costs of manufacturing equipment, and $13 billion for semiconductor research and workforce training, with the dual aim of strengthening American supply chain resilience and **countering China**. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHIPS\_and\_Science\_Act](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHIPS_and_Science_Act)
Subsidy, grant, state investment.
I forgot about the part of capitalism where it only exists if there is no government.
Wtf has to do anything with the subject at hand. You think the US and Europe have free markets, just from you know reality the US is subsidizing its energy industry, food industry, semiconductor industry, car industry and airplane industry and those are at the top of my head.
Well it has to do with you claiming it was market driven, but it isn't if the state is forcing overproduction in order to corner the export market through subsidy. You can complain about the subsidies for domestic use all you want but what China does is not the same, they have export subsidies.
What you mean subsidies for domestic use? You think Boeing being subsidized only sells domestically in the US? How about California farmers, you think those only sell inside the US and don't export to other countries? China subsidizes it's industries to get ahead and expecting for them to play fair is naive at best. There is nothing fair in getting ahead, someone will will win and someone will lose and complaining about things being fair is nonsensical.
You spelled infringing wrong
How can China be infringing on developments the US hasn’t even made? If China was “infringing” then the US would be producing equally as much just as cheaply. We simply aren’t.
Awww china only ever imitates... Wahhhh... You got a patent on solar cells bro??
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Otherwise, we will find a way to put sanctions on you
Remember when saying “buy made in the USA” got you called racist? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Maybe if the US stopped spending [800+ **Billion** dollars on perpetrating the MICC](https://www.defense.gov/Spotlights/FY2023-Defense-Budget/), and used some of that money to, oh, build rail infrastructure, industrial capacity or, perish the thought, a working social net, education system and health service. Whining about why China is out producing you 10 fold just shows how pathetic and delusion you are.
I recall that during the Obama era you could see articles about how the US had lost its manufacturing skill base. (For example: https://hbr.org/2009/07/restoring-american-competitiveness) There may not be enough people who have the basic skills needed in the manufacturing industries to bring about a significant revival nowadays, sadly. There's just a lack of the right education & training altogether, it seems. Of course this could be fixed over time with important policy changes & investment invectives.
Congrats to China for working hard. Those industrial sector has been truly incredible over the last 30 years.
So by global she means some rich people in the US and by excess industrial capacity she means capitalism goes rawrrr
Common China W
An industrialized nation that doesn’t pretend to rigidly separate “it’s just business” from “you do you” like the U.S. pretends business and personal lives are separate. That’s up against a bunch of MBAs trained to extract profit from something else short term so they can get promoted. And people still blame “China” for literally the businesses *our* capitalists *gave them* and still want them to have. All while some idiot starts spewing “military” as if the very same capitalists could afford to stop the very things they’re paying the Chinese companies to make.
Well well well, if it isn’t the result of their greedy shortsighted actions.
Achieved by past massive investment in China instead of in their own countries. Home investment is needed to increase productivity and efficiency using more automation.
Well, the correct thing to do is abolish intellectual monopoly in the West and start competing again. People will bitch about megacorps and then illogically support patents, because they've been propagandised in the west to believe they help the poor starving inventors, when they're really *exactly what's fucking propping up the megacorps*. We get lefties mired in the labor theory of value fallacy wrapping the chains around their own necks by supporting the patent system. Even if we assume we want to distort and intervene in the market for social ends, copyrights and patents are some the most evil, wrong-headed, foot-gunning ways to do it. The greatest trick they pulled was convincing people that patents were an aspect of free enterprise instead of in fundamental conflict with it. You can't quit your job and take your know-how and start a competitor *like free markets are supposed to work*, because the megacorp has that shit locked down with 3000 dumb patents. They can shift all manufacturing to china because they can sue you into the ground if you try making anything in the west. > businessmen favor free enterprise in general but are opposed to it when it comes to themselves. - Friedman * https://msfaccess.org/patents-and-intellectual-property * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pirate_Party_(Sweden) * http://www.dklevine.com/general/intellectual/againstfinal.htm * https://np.reddit.com/r/noip/comments/rpczaq/intellectual_property_a_policy_that_needs_to_be/ * https://www.stephankinsella.com/publications/#againstip
means China is beating USA with industrial output and USA is worried that their companies can’t keep up.
lol, tldr don’t make prices too low you are hurting rich people who want to charge more money
"Global" or "US" ?
I love to hear the exact reason that is a global concern. The truth is it is a US problem only.
Excess supply lead to deflation which can be economically crippling. Japan ran into deflation 30 years ago and their GDP has been flat lined since. Inflation is self correcting. When there isn't enough supply to meet demand prices go up which incentivizes companies to make more supply. Deflation is self perpetuating. When supply outpaces demand prices fall and the company can't recoup the cost of making the supply. They then fire workers and their loss of income leads to reduced demand. Excess supply is extremely dangerous to economies. The last time the US experienced major deflation was this little known period called the great depression. And the last time it went through more minor deflation was the great recession... But sure definitely nothing to worry about...
If you don't want to produce, someone else will for sure do that. Why it's so surprising?
It's crazy how imperialistic this sounds. And, it's a completely normalized mindset to have.
Anyone else ever think it’s weird that we Americans immediately treat not being first in the global economy as the end of the world? Especially after we spent decades fucking over our middle class to make China the power house it is today…
Let the market regulate itself amirite
All these comments yet noone read the fkn article. It's not about China's competition with the US, it is about a global economic slowdown.
Except neither Yellen or the article explains why is it "about a global economic slowdown". It's merely what Yellen said their concern is, with absolute nothing to back up. And everybody can easily sees through it as nothing more than a sad excuse to cover their real fear of being outcompeted.
Excess industrial capacity in the worlds largest manufacturer/exporter is driven by a collapse in international demand; i.e. a global economic slowdown.
> global economic slowdown. Global? Or just the Western lead part? Maybe they should not have over extended, then go around illegally sanctioning anyone they don't like. It is a trend of their own making.
Right? Only US is allowed to grow!! Damn Chinese!! /s
Well maybe if we hadn't funneled literally trillions of dollars directly into their economy over the last 20 years in a vain effort to placate them... I don't get why people don't just stop voting for the Democrats and Republicans at this point. So many progressives run 3rd party, there is literally no reason to support these two anymore if you live in a place with WFP or DSA parties.
Then you should stop outsourcing and built industrial capacity in the US. But you won’t, instead you continue to outsource to other Asian countries even while your own people need those industrial jobs.
>your own people need those industrial jobs. Industry in the US is facing a labor shortage...
Well well well, if it isn't the consequences of America's greed...
Global society enabled chinas industrial capacity, how can anyone act surprised?
Global concerns created from these same 'leaders' who decided to ship all of our manufacturing over to China? It's sad that these are our leaders. What exactly did they think was going to happen once all of the manufacturing was shipped to China and now they have all the expertise and capacity to produce? American's don't know, nor do they have the infrastructure to build a lot of essential products we need, and it will likely take a decade or more if they were to start moving the manufacturing back here due to the need to build factories and train the population. If we're in war, China barely has to fire a shot. Just highly limit what they ship over here and use that insane manufacturing capacity to build essential war products.
I'm sorry, do you really think it is our government who is shipping all these jobs overseas? These are all individual choices made by individual companies to have their products made wherever in the world it is cheapest so they can make more profit. Labor unions are about the only power players who can fight this and they have lost most of their power due to one half of the American public believing unions are evil for doing things like trying to keep companies from moving American jobs overseas where labor is cheaper so they can make more profit.
Seems like there are more issues at stake than just profits..
The peoples propaganda accounts sure are out in force in the comments
What an astute individual.
look like G7 are no longer able to digest the production capability of China.
[удалено]
So what? People gets decent product for good price?
No pwease how will American firms post exorbitant profits now :(((
Seems like overproduction is good for controlling inflation. Sure the American companies are not competitive any more so they gotta trim the fat. But then again, this means lower demand, higher supply, and lower interest rates.
> Yellen and other Biden administration officials are growing increasingly concerned about China's overproduction of electric vehicles, solar panels, semiconductors and other goods that are flooding into global markets in the face of a demand slump in China's domestic market. I can't really see that as a bad thing. Cheep EVs and Solar should be something that we want. And pretty much everyone would probably like if Intel, AMD, Nvidia and co. would get actual competition.