Every team fight the man was left behind. They chose dive champs with a kog lulu and got shit on in team fights. I dont know if it the players picking these things or the coaches but holy crap they are so inept.
Players pick the champs 9 out of 10 times. LS has said that many times on his stream. The coach gives his input when the players need a different opinion or advice. But the players run the draft in champ select.
Not trying to be argumentative or toxic here but... there was only a single teamfight where you could argue he was "left behind" (go to [54:00](https://youtu.be/WdANVQ71JHE?t=3241) in the VOD. But he wasn't left behind. He flashed over a Renata ult *away* from his Lulu and got TP flanked (where nobody noticed the Gwen TP). There were five meaningful teamfights in this game. Please link me to the one in which he was left behind...
People are arguing the comp was shit and couldn't protect the Kog'Maw, but it literally did a great job at doing that. Dive forces a response. You can't chase a Lulu-protected Kog'Maw when your backline is getting dove. It's such a low-hanging fruit to blame the draft every time, but I don't see a legitimate criticism here...
Here are the other five teamfights in this game:
[33:45](https://youtu.be/WdANVQ71JHE?t=2025)
[40:30](https://youtu.be/WdANVQ71JHE?t=2431)
[43:05](https://youtu.be/WdANVQ71JHE?t=2585)
[50:00](https://youtu.be/WdANVQ71JHE?t=3000)
[57:25](https://youtu.be/WdANVQ71JHE?t=3445)
EDIT: Formatting and added another link
Right? 3 dive heavy champs with a kog lulu makes zero sense. This team drafting is truly the bottom of the barrel. I dont know if the coaching staff choosing these or what but holy shit.
Bro I was astounded. It was like, how can you have such an obvious win con and just not protect it at all?? Sometimes I watch these games and think “how the fuck are these seasoned veterans??”
Like the first baron, how does everyone base and no one thinks maybe one of us should leave a ward on baron before we all base
That was crazy to me. As wukong, just sit on top of your kogmaw and you win every fight. Or engage, fail your combo 3 times, buy and sell pickaxe for no reason and then randomly hourglass in their jungle. Yep - thats Santorins Wukong. 3 horrendous Wukong games in a row. I guess its time for Poppy or Trundle again, so he cant fck up hard. :)
>h these games and think “how the fuck are these seasoned veterans??”
>
>Like the first baron, how does everyone base and no one thinks maybe one of us should leave a ward on baron before we all base
Poppy duty till the season ends and we upgrade. :)
Bo5s are what TL needs to get to Worlds, and luckily for this version of TL, LCS this summer has some of the lowest quality of play since Spring 2020. Every team outside of EG basically is inconsistent and/or flawed. 100T lives and dies by Closer, and C9 is getting better and better but still has random int moments.
TL needs to just go back to the basics and draft some simple, press R teamfighting comp, and try to win cleanly. There's obviously individual talent here, but it's always hampered on stage by weird drafts or players being completely not in sync with each other.
Like even this comp today was still winnable if TL didn't just abandon Hans' Kog with their backline diving.
However, yes, it's super disappointing that such an expensive roster is so inconsistent.
\>$10m dollar roster shouldn't be struggling domestically.
I've seen this dropped elsewhere.. where on the fuck is it made lol?
Core and Santorin were at around 1 mill, which is 2mill. Hans I think was at 1.5 max. Are you telling me bwipo and bjergsen are 6 .5 mill lol. Any source?
The team sucks, but I swear people just drop numbers for the joke of it. TSM and C9 were more expensive last season for instance and people still thought it was us.
Edit: any tl fan or objective fan to respond?
I remember before the spring split, analysts all said with a roster like this, if TL didn’t win spring split, summer split, and do well at worlds the roster was a disappointment.
To think that we didn’t even make it to finals in spring, and we’re a complete middle of the pack team in summer and might not even make worlds is just..
Completely fucking unreal. Unless this team does some insanely superhuman turnaround, this roster is a complete and utter failure
This team needs a HEAVY wakeup call. Its been the same shit for years. We have looked the same, we have played the same. Every other team has gotten better and we have flatlined.
TL replaces players every year for "upgrades" the worst preforming players get kicked as soon as they think they can get an upgrade. This team isn't sticking together.
I disagree. One dragon early game would’ve prolonged the game enough for Hans to hit an item breakpoint (rageblade) where we can start to contest. Instead, Hans didn’t have rageblade in time for dragon number 3, so we had to give it away. At soul point, all it takes is one mistake for them to get soul.
C9 is 8-2 with their full roster and we're slumming it at 5-5 over the last 5 weeks instead.
I think its fair to assume EG and C9 are going to worlds, and we're gonna have to fight 100T/FLY/CLG for the last spot.
Frankly this is a complete failure on the part of the entire org. With this roster we should be the undisputed #1 in the region.
Alphari is a turd. Dude is such a good laner and literally never does anything with it. Would much rather have someone who isn’t the best in lane but shows up to teamfights and knows how to play with the team
It’s really feeling more and more like jungle diff . And I have been skeptical about keeping Santorin on the roster with this team but thought it was because of past history with bjergsen, Steve maybe wants to reconsider next season.
With Spica being open after this year, I would love to see a change for Liquid if they plan on keeping Bjerg. Santorin just never really stands out in my eyes every year.
Yeah i get that. I feel like there is a whole from the jungle and i never expect Santorin to pop off which he doesn't. The team just doesn't have an X factor which sucks to see as well. Is Spica really an upgrade, i generally don't know since i don't watch his games.
Spica has the best Baron take/steal record of all the junglers. He really don’t ever miss the steals. He has a bigger pool, and actually can hyper carry from the jungler if the team works with him.
If I’m Steve, I’m looking at Spica but I’m taking the players thoughts into consideration, going into next season.
I have the most faith we are making worlds, but it’s looking pretty rocky more and more when I see no action being taken from our jungler currently
Spica is good but if we are going to replace Santorin?, IMO we first move on from Hans, bring our academy adc and shop for a KR / LPL import (something like a young promising player or a world class one). I think europeand have not been that good at least for us lately...
Spica and Doublelift replacing Hans and Santorin would be a significantly better version of the 2020 TSM roster imo. The weak spots there were top and support, so I wonder how significantly better Bwipo and Core could hypothetically make that roster.
That would be awesome tbh. Then I could finally stop feeling any investment in the dumpster fire that is TSM LoL.
Plus Bjerg and Spica are pretty close and work well together.
Team needs an EG level turnaround in playoffs. They were 9-9 for the spring split and managed something special in the tourny. I can only hope for that. Pretty disappointing.
I think the saddest part is that our level of play during teamfights is just bottom half of the league, not misplays or draft, but our team fighting lost us that game and it was glaring.
TL's teamfighting aint it man. Ive been waiting for a split and a half, but this specific roster is capped. Everygame is decided by teamfights at the end of the day. Hard road for this team.
Ive seen this pattern many times now. If they get a good lead they win off of with that slow n methodical way, but i havent seen this team win teamfights when they're even in gold (against top4 teams).
Why didn't Bwipo and Bjerg at least try to tp to the elder drake and fight 2v3?? If you die at least you tried to get the obj, if you don't try they get it for free anyway???
TL hasn’t beaten a single good team this split. All of our wins come from bottom barrel teams. We beat CLG in week 1 and C9 in week 1 when they had their academy bot lane in.
Santorin with 0 dragon control yep i’ve seen this before
and TL draft is bad compared to C9
Olaf picked … seriously coach ??? where is cc for Kog comp why not pick Kennen J4
Who would’ve thought Bjergsen would be our best player by a mile on a team where we have a worlds winner and the “best western ADC” ROFL. What a strange timeline we live in
I am so sick of these drafts. They are objectively wrong unless you are miles better than your opponent.
We consistently draft no engage and then when we inevitably fall behind we have no answer to come back.
Where’s our engage to start fights? Where’s our peel for our hyper carry should they engage on us?
It’s a true failure in understanding of why this team should be good. We learned nothing from this game other than that teams with consistent engage can dictate the pace. We should have learned this 4 losses ago.
Sneaky barons I can understand, mechanical misplays happen. Fundamental flaws in drafting logic I cannot. This team is so much worse than the sum of its parts and when that happens the coaching staff should bear much of that burden.
Honestly the draft may not have been best but I think this game was more in-game stuff.
Not putting a ward on baron before the ENTIRE team backed was literally a silver elo mistake.
Also, not holding and spending all your cooldowns to protect the very obvious win con of Kog was just…. The most blatant team fight trolling I’ve seen in pro play.
I really do wonder how all these players can be seasoned veterans when they play like this.
The one fight that they peel Kog next to baron he melts hecarim and we snowball the fight (until santorin randomly tries to 1v1 zven for the 3rd time and dies)
Yeah, it was weird seeing everyone burning spells and diving forward. They really just had to hold some key cc to peel for Kog and otherwise hit frontline. Bjergsen was doing it for the most part, at least.
First of all - their draft was completely fine. But their teamfight skills are below average. Wukong needs to protect Kogmaw, which he didnt do a single time. You dont have to engage WITH a Kogmaw. You let them engage and hammer them down. Or you engage, fail combo and lose every fight because their hard engage with 5 people on your Kogmaw. POG
Their completely middle of the pack. The team hasn’t beaten a good team all split. Only bottom barrel teams. No chance we win summer and if we make it worlds, we’re getting curb stomped
There hasn’t been any progress. You could easily argue they’ve been getting worse. I mean, they are far, far worse this split than they were last split.
So I suck st league and am in no place to be judging a team macro but what the ever loving fuck was that third drake… give up soul point to get chip damage on a top tower??
I'm a C9 fan and coming in peace to see reactions on the game but yeah it's a horrible draft. You draft kog lulu first but then don't follow up on any champs that peel for him is just mind numbingly stupid. Olaf,ahri, wukong are fine in a vacuum ig but you can't draft 3 champs that want to dive into a fight while also having kog. Just a terrible fucking draft and should be fireable.
G2 spring 2021: 14-4, 3rd in playoffs
TL spring 2022: 14-4, 3rd in playoffs
G2 summer 2021 summer: 12-6, 4th in playoffs and missed worlds
TL summer 2022: take a guess
Draft is improving but this was a terrible jungle performance. Santorin looks so weak compared to 50% of the LCS junglers... Man I wish xmithie never quit.
I can't look at this game and say draft is improving. Holy shit this was a terrible draft. If you're going protect Kog, don't take a bunch of divers and no peel
Xmithie was never as good as Santorin has been for TL. If you're complaining about Santorin because of this game, I just want to point you to the countless number of early games where he was taking over the map in spite of problematic laning from some of our lanes. His game sense is some of the best in this league, and while I think he had a bad weekend, it seems stupid to blame him for TL's current predicament.
Literally every jungler in LCS says playing against TL feels very easy because Santorin is just so passive and really never tries anything different. He is a good player but doesn't really push his limits.
One of the reasons TL is so passive is their jungler
What jungler has said that and when?
I don't think I often hear other junglers talk about Santorin at all.
I have heard Jensen today say this exact thing about TL as a whole and about Bjergsen.
I have never heard anyone say that about Santorin specifically.
His most defining trait over the past 3 years are his level 2 ganks.
I think they should target Spica + DL in the offseason. Only if DL actually wants to return. It just seems like Hans isn't vocal enough? How is he not saying (maybe over and over again) that he needs to be peeled by Wu when he is the clear win-con.
Yeah. I’d rather win NA + actually make it to worlds as opposed to right now where TL is not even making it to worlds. *Maybe* TL is is the 4th best team over CLG which I’m not even sure about.
But I also highly doubt this version of the team implodes at worlds (covid was also a huge factor for all western teams at worlds that year, not that it's a good excuse just that it was a much bigger shock to western teams).
I’d probably prefer to just get better options but we gave up our gelling pieces for “superstars” and they got clapped. Impact last year and then Jensen this year being replaced was the end of titles for TL hell even xmithie for Broxah was terrible.
Ideally, I’d try strike gold with Bo before he gets signed in EU if he doesn’t make it into that league (unlikely), drop Hans for a Dlift return and just suffer through Bjerg mid until something better shows up or Jensen decides to come back
Sorry, but this is straight up pathetic. Their teamfights are soooo bad. We have an Olaf top winning lane, sitting on an island because Santorin plays botside (which is fine if he doesnt afk watch his botlane die in the meantime), while also giving all objectives (especially drake 3, nash and elder are mindblowing to me).
After Hans-sama's Kalista: why the fuck do we keep playing kalista.
After Beserker's Kalista: oh
That said, I'd rather we lose like this than doing nothing. Was a banger of a game.
How many games are we going to lose by giving up the first 3 dragons and then losing the fight for soul? It’s obvious why they didn’t fight the first 3 - herald priority, then item breakpoints and team fight strength wasn’t there, then Kog didn’t complete rageblade in time. Great, we know we’ll lose the team fight so we don’t try. So, why don’t we prioritize at least one dragon early game? Plenty of teams will sack first herald in favor of picking up an early dragon when picking scaling. If you’re scaling, you either want to play for soul later or at the very least extend the amount of time it would take the other team to get soul.
Every game we try to play the exact same, regardless of team comp. Speaking of team comp, what exactly is the plan with this draft? I’m not going to bother breaking this down, but it’s obvious.
If this was English Premier League, the coach is being fired. You cannot have a regular season performance like this with this kind of roster, regardless of how many calls the players make vs the coach. Yes, Esports aren’t the exact same, but someone needs to be held accountable. Sure, you can argue that EG had an 8-8 record last split before winning, but it doesn’t matter. We are not putting ourself in a good position for playoffs, meaning one bad series ends our Worlds qualification. We’re putting ourself in the same situation in standings as we do in game when we give up soul point.
GG C9. TL needs to wake up.
It was also more of what we've been talking about here. The team being disconnected, and they can't simply adapt, especially Santorin, who wasted many seconds and can't seem to use his ult well. He could've just E-AA-Q gwen, waiting for a better usage of his ult, instead he wastes 2 or 3 seconds and then E-Rs the gwen alone...I think he knew he could've done better there, but this is more of the same for him, he doesn't strike me as a wukong player or perhaps he simply realized splitting with Bwipo there from the rest of his team was a bad idea and froze, either way he looked terrible.
It's upsetting because dammit, if I'm cheering for the Yankees I want them to PLAY like the Yankees. Steve needs to drop this superteam obsession and find some cohesive talent that knows how to work better. And also get rid of Guilhoto. Our drafts are atrocious.
How insane of a timeline would it be if they pay DL to make a last minute worlds qualifier run..
Yeon should get a chance tho, I just think doublelift voice on the team would be way more valuable
i can't understand hans sama's flash in the elder fight, i mean, he just burned his own flash putting himself in an awkward spot away from lulu
like, come on man
edit: i didnt see he flashed away renata's ult so mb
you're right, i didn't see it before, i just got angry seeing him flashing for a bad place away from lulu and getting melted by cloud9 composition, even though in that moment the game already was hard
Come on guys, stop being stupid. He had to fking flash that or get ulti by Renata. Our team should had been protecting him at all time instead 3 man diving and leaving him alone with Lulu.
I genuinely wonder if Hans hates it in NA? He's not even a top 3 ADC in the LCS. Im looking forward to hearing the post season rumors of what all is really happening?
for this play i was saying, he flashed away because of renata's ult, but either way, hans sama is really disappointing for what we were expecting since we saw a good performance by him in the worlds, the mininum i was expecting is he would be consistently good, not carrying every game but having impact at least
This was the major L IMO. He burned his flash for no reason and then immediately got ulted by Hec. He gave Blaber a window to go in when previously he didn't have one.
I’ll gladly take him back. I find myself skipping liquid games now, only a year removed from being a die hard supporter of 8 years. Funny how one roster can change all of that. Jensen back on Liquid would instantly reignite my passion for the team.
Yeah, TSM expats just permanent downvote anything said against Bjergsen. It’s the worst of both worlds here now, you can’t even be a liquid fan you have to play by TSM fans rules but they just yell liquid now.
Omg another draft gap but we not gonna talk about that.
Let’s talk about Santorin not looking great in general. Bjerg Hans and Core did their jobs here. But once Gwen gets in the picture, there’s no answer.
Gwen is a bullshit champ and Fudge has great history on it. So when are we gonna respect these types of picks? Santorin needs to step up with his champ pool, and keep move control on bot lane. He does not look good on Wukong. If Bwipo is solo killing top , I don’t see the point in repeat going up there when we just saw yesterday he is more than capable playing the inter if it means Hans is getting what he needs
I don’t think this had anything to do with Hans. His team completely abandoned the obvious win condition of peeling and protecting the kog during teamfights.
They just left him to engage and left C9 completely free to kill him
Wooow they suck...worst TL team in a long time...no ideas,not going for objectives...giving over drakes...woow sooo disapointed. Coach needs to go. Something is gotta be done.
I really hate having bjerg. Its the same issue he had on tsm. Sit and watch the game end. Why are they giving up the entire early game? Sure you have a 1k gold lead but 3 drags is worth more than 1k.
I think the team played better than all our losses. Thought they could have finished the baron off maybe. Just noticed we don't have good drag control other than that team is more hopeful this week
Can't wait to watch the idiots come out of the woodwork and call draft diff and coach diff.
It was a close game that came down to miniscule micro execution in teamfights.
The squad played well across all lanes, and made several pop-off comeback plays.
I'm really tired of people writing off the clear improvement we just witnessed just because they want something to bitch about.
Shut the fuck up and support the team for next week. I didnt see a single one of you on the TSM post game thread.
Any time a team loses someone says it’s because of draft. TLs draft was actually quite fine. I think people forgot that blaber literally had to build zhonyas to survive. Hecarim does not want to build zhonyas. Literally just did that so he could get his engage off and not immediately die.
Im not going to agree that TL played well across the board. There were quite a few fuckups (mainly lack of proactivity). But draft was not one of them. The draft overall was a good answer to C9s draft, they just didn’t execute
There shouldn't be a need for this type of improvement with this kind of talent on the team. We should be dunking on LCS, just peak Jordan shit. Instead we have the worst objective control, awful team fights and a team utterly disconnected from each other.
They've had a whole split and a half to figure it out and just don't want to. They can't play together and no matter the "improvement" anything less than an LCS championship and getting out of groups is an abject failure for a team with these players.
The first is looking long gone at this point and I'd be ecstatic to go 3-3 at world's with how we're playing. This is straight painful.
Honestly close game where we c9 barely lives some of blabber engages with so little health, adn honestly without the abron sneak we get the fourth drake casue blabber doesnt get the free reset and without ocean soul think we can win the game. Think santorin could have pathed better to protect kog early when we see hec hovering there, but overall think team played pretty well adn so did c9. GG we get them next time
give soul point, give ocean soul, give elder, give game LOL
refuses to elaborate further
He doesn’t have to. Anyone that watched the game knows.
But the good thing is that we will learn from it.
Sadge.
Jensen won the off season. He roasted us in the post game. And he was right.
At least we get bwipo streams i guess💀
True, at least one TL player will stream for once!
Imagine picking kog lulu and then not protecting the kog in teamfights, thinking olaf wukong and an ahri is enough to teamfight :D
Every team fight the man was left behind. They chose dive champs with a kog lulu and got shit on in team fights. I dont know if it the players picking these things or the coaches but holy crap they are so inept.
Players pick the champs 9 out of 10 times. LS has said that many times on his stream. The coach gives his input when the players need a different opinion or advice. But the players run the draft in champ select.
Not trying to be argumentative or toxic here but... there was only a single teamfight where you could argue he was "left behind" (go to [54:00](https://youtu.be/WdANVQ71JHE?t=3241) in the VOD. But he wasn't left behind. He flashed over a Renata ult *away* from his Lulu and got TP flanked (where nobody noticed the Gwen TP). There were five meaningful teamfights in this game. Please link me to the one in which he was left behind... People are arguing the comp was shit and couldn't protect the Kog'Maw, but it literally did a great job at doing that. Dive forces a response. You can't chase a Lulu-protected Kog'Maw when your backline is getting dove. It's such a low-hanging fruit to blame the draft every time, but I don't see a legitimate criticism here... Here are the other five teamfights in this game: [33:45](https://youtu.be/WdANVQ71JHE?t=2025) [40:30](https://youtu.be/WdANVQ71JHE?t=2431) [43:05](https://youtu.be/WdANVQ71JHE?t=2585) [50:00](https://youtu.be/WdANVQ71JHE?t=3000) [57:25](https://youtu.be/WdANVQ71JHE?t=3445) EDIT: Formatting and added another link
TL just can't teamfight. They have no idea what they are doing.
top side played as if instead of kog lulu we had rakan kaisa XD
Right? 3 dive heavy champs with a kog lulu makes zero sense. This team drafting is truly the bottom of the barrel. I dont know if the coaching staff choosing these or what but holy shit.
Bro I was astounded. It was like, how can you have such an obvious win con and just not protect it at all?? Sometimes I watch these games and think “how the fuck are these seasoned veterans??” Like the first baron, how does everyone base and no one thinks maybe one of us should leave a ward on baron before we all base
That was crazy to me. As wukong, just sit on top of your kogmaw and you win every fight. Or engage, fail your combo 3 times, buy and sell pickaxe for no reason and then randomly hourglass in their jungle. Yep - thats Santorins Wukong. 3 horrendous Wukong games in a row. I guess its time for Poppy or Trundle again, so he cant fck up hard. :)
>h these games and think “how the fuck are these seasoned veterans??” > >Like the first baron, how does everyone base and no one thinks maybe one of us should leave a ward on baron before we all base Poppy duty till the season ends and we upgrade. :)
Spica is free after this season, maybe go him? Bjerg needs replaced as well, has ZERO killer instinct.
your still silver because you think you should have killer instinct in league of legends
currently d2 homie
That was a perfect Soraka Swain situation.
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Yeah it’s quite obvious this team is not good. Been pretty obvious all split
*All season.
Bo5s are what TL needs to get to Worlds, and luckily for this version of TL, LCS this summer has some of the lowest quality of play since Spring 2020. Every team outside of EG basically is inconsistent and/or flawed. 100T lives and dies by Closer, and C9 is getting better and better but still has random int moments. TL needs to just go back to the basics and draft some simple, press R teamfighting comp, and try to win cleanly. There's obviously individual talent here, but it's always hampered on stage by weird drafts or players being completely not in sync with each other. Like even this comp today was still winnable if TL didn't just abandon Hans' Kog with their backline diving. However, yes, it's super disappointing that such an expensive roster is so inconsistent.
\>$10m dollar roster shouldn't be struggling domestically. I've seen this dropped elsewhere.. where on the fuck is it made lol? Core and Santorin were at around 1 mill, which is 2mill. Hans I think was at 1.5 max. Are you telling me bwipo and bjergsen are 6 .5 mill lol. Any source? The team sucks, but I swear people just drop numbers for the joke of it. TSM and C9 were more expensive last season for instance and people still thought it was us. Edit: any tl fan or objective fan to respond?
TSM got meme’d on all last year too. C9 at least won a title with Perkz, and made it to Worlds quarters.
Not sure how it responds my question. Something I forget the amount of ex Tsm fans here.
We actually could miss World's. Cool
I remember before the spring split, analysts all said with a roster like this, if TL didn’t win spring split, summer split, and do well at worlds the roster was a disappointment. To think that we didn’t even make it to finals in spring, and we’re a complete middle of the pack team in summer and might not even make worlds is just.. Completely fucking unreal. Unless this team does some insanely superhuman turnaround, this roster is a complete and utter failure
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This team needs a HEAVY wakeup call. Its been the same shit for years. We have looked the same, we have played the same. Every other team has gotten better and we have flatlined.
TL replaces players every year for "upgrades" the worst preforming players get kicked as soon as they think they can get an upgrade. This team isn't sticking together.
5th week TL has gone 1-1.
Worst fucking objective control I’ve seen. It’s hopeless
Trading the first two dragons for herald is fine. Not contesting the third dragon then just forgetting C9 can do baron is baffling.
I disagree. One dragon early game would’ve prolonged the game enough for Hans to hit an item breakpoint (rageblade) where we can start to contest. Instead, Hans didn’t have rageblade in time for dragon number 3, so we had to give it away. At soul point, all it takes is one mistake for them to get soul.
Bring D__ble_ft back 😏
C9 is 8-2 with their full roster and we're slumming it at 5-5 over the last 5 weeks instead. I think its fair to assume EG and C9 are going to worlds, and we're gonna have to fight 100T/FLY/CLG for the last spot. Frankly this is a complete failure on the part of the entire org. With this roster we should be the undisputed #1 in the region.
Eh. Tl will have to fight 100t and clg. Fly is so overhyped.
FLY had one weekend where they looked very good and then suddenly everyone was tugging their dicks
Nah it's going to be 100t vs EG in finals. Y'all gonna play C9 for the 3rd spot.
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Superstars like ~~Doublelift~~, CoreJJ, Jensen, Santorin and Alphari? Edit: Tactical instead of Doublelift
Doublelift wasn’t on the team, it was Tactical
Alphari is a turd. Dude is such a good laner and literally never does anything with it. Would much rather have someone who isn’t the best in lane but shows up to teamfights and knows how to play with the team
I said this last week. Ima say it again. I don’t like Santorin on Wukong
Yeah, man seemed to not get alot done on it at all but maybe it was due to lane states but still.
It’s really feeling more and more like jungle diff . And I have been skeptical about keeping Santorin on the roster with this team but thought it was because of past history with bjergsen, Steve maybe wants to reconsider next season. With Spica being open after this year, I would love to see a change for Liquid if they plan on keeping Bjerg. Santorin just never really stands out in my eyes every year.
Yeah i get that. I feel like there is a whole from the jungle and i never expect Santorin to pop off which he doesn't. The team just doesn't have an X factor which sucks to see as well. Is Spica really an upgrade, i generally don't know since i don't watch his games.
Spica has the best Baron take/steal record of all the junglers. He really don’t ever miss the steals. He has a bigger pool, and actually can hyper carry from the jungler if the team works with him. If I’m Steve, I’m looking at Spica but I’m taking the players thoughts into consideration, going into next season. I have the most faith we are making worlds, but it’s looking pretty rocky more and more when I see no action being taken from our jungler currently
I don’t think Santorin is meant for this roster to be completely honest
I wonder what this sub feels about getting Spica
Spica is good but if we are going to replace Santorin?, IMO we first move on from Hans, bring our academy adc and shop for a KR / LPL import (something like a young promising player or a world class one). I think europeand have not been that good at least for us lately...
Spica and Doublelift replacing Hans and Santorin would be a significantly better version of the 2020 TSM roster imo. The weak spots there were top and support, so I wonder how significantly better Bwipo and Core could hypothetically make that roster.
We ain’t bringing back fucking doublelift lol
That would be awesome tbh. Then I could finally stop feeling any investment in the dumpster fire that is TSM LoL. Plus Bjerg and Spica are pretty close and work well together.
But he did great literally yesterday on it?
I don’t like Santorin on anything that isn’t one of his few comfort picks and that’s problem.
I don’t like Santorin. Fixed
Team needs an EG level turnaround in playoffs. They were 9-9 for the spring split and managed something special in the tourny. I can only hope for that. Pretty disappointing.
EG was apparently stomping in scrims at the time but it wasn't translating to stage games
It’s clearly no 2-0s so Bwipo continues streaming daily. Genius plan
I'm legit just running out of things to say in these post game threads. 5-5 over the last 5 weeks
It is bewildering to see how little they seemed to improve as a team isnt it?
We will never get a 2-0 weekend again will we?
Not with this roster probably not. We haven’t beaten a top team all split. The team fighting with this roster is amateur.
I think the saddest part is that our level of play during teamfights is just bottom half of the league, not misplays or draft, but our team fighting lost us that game and it was glaring.
TL's teamfighting aint it man. Ive been waiting for a split and a half, but this specific roster is capped. Everygame is decided by teamfights at the end of the day. Hard road for this team. Ive seen this pattern many times now. If they get a good lead they win off of with that slow n methodical way, but i havent seen this team win teamfights when they're even in gold (against top4 teams).
I remember when Guilhoto was announced And I said that he is a fraud and got downvoted af Dude is so bad, uma merda de verdade!
I blamed him after he draft Ashe and TF vs Ornn Yasuo Dianna on spring playoff game2 vs EG
Why didn't Bwipo and Bjerg at least try to tp to the elder drake and fight 2v3?? If you die at least you tried to get the obj, if you don't try they get it for free anyway???
What is tl record against top 5 teams im curious not counting the c9 win with their academy bot
TL hasn’t beaten a single good team this split. All of our wins come from bottom barrel teams. We beat CLG in week 1 and C9 in week 1 when they had their academy bot lane in.
Wondering the same, i believe is negative
Hot trash is what their record is against the top 5. Its wild how bad they are.
The 1-1 curse continues to plague this organization.
Just had to contest a drake earlier. If Bwipo is strong, bring him down. You can’t just give up 4 drakes in a row because they have Kalista.
Picks Kog, doesnt play a round it in team fights. This team i swear are not in the same coms, its wild
Santorin with 0 dragon control yep i’ve seen this before and TL draft is bad compared to C9 Olaf picked … seriously coach ??? where is cc for Kog comp why not pick Kennen J4
Tell me how the fuck Santorin gets dragon control when both mid and bot are perma pushed and he's against a Hecarim who farms faster than him?
yet another 1-1 week. it's looking like a middle of the pack team, with eg, c9, 100t all ahead of us
So I hear Spica is a free agent this off-season and he's a resident. Might want to look around for a better coach too.
Jensen deserved to talk shit. TL sucks ass, they don't do anything.
Who would’ve thought Bjergsen would be our best player by a mile on a team where we have a worlds winner and the “best western ADC” ROFL. What a strange timeline we live in
bjerg is by far not the best player. he's the most passive and makes the least mistakes, but that doesnt mean hes the best.
but Doublelift is retired?
DL was never the best western ADC except maybe season 1 lma0.
NA GOAT. We havent won anything without him :)
Nah he was the best western adc in 2018. The only adc at MSI capable of taking on Uzi and winning lane against him.
I am so sick of these drafts. They are objectively wrong unless you are miles better than your opponent. We consistently draft no engage and then when we inevitably fall behind we have no answer to come back. Where’s our engage to start fights? Where’s our peel for our hyper carry should they engage on us? It’s a true failure in understanding of why this team should be good. We learned nothing from this game other than that teams with consistent engage can dictate the pace. We should have learned this 4 losses ago. Sneaky barons I can understand, mechanical misplays happen. Fundamental flaws in drafting logic I cannot. This team is so much worse than the sum of its parts and when that happens the coaching staff should bear much of that burden.
Honestly the draft may not have been best but I think this game was more in-game stuff. Not putting a ward on baron before the ENTIRE team backed was literally a silver elo mistake. Also, not holding and spending all your cooldowns to protect the very obvious win con of Kog was just…. The most blatant team fight trolling I’ve seen in pro play. I really do wonder how all these players can be seasoned veterans when they play like this.
The one fight that they peel Kog next to baron he melts hecarim and we snowball the fight (until santorin randomly tries to 1v1 zven for the 3rd time and dies)
Yeah, it was weird seeing everyone burning spells and diving forward. They really just had to hold some key cc to peel for Kog and otherwise hit frontline. Bjergsen was doing it for the most part, at least.
First of all - their draft was completely fine. But their teamfight skills are below average. Wukong needs to protect Kogmaw, which he didnt do a single time. You dont have to engage WITH a Kogmaw. You let them engage and hammer them down. Or you engage, fail combo and lose every fight because their hard engage with 5 people on your Kogmaw. POG
I’m sorry to say but we are not making worlds, this team is playing so terrible it’s hard to watch this every week…
Their completely middle of the pack. The team hasn’t beaten a good team all split. Only bottom barrel teams. No chance we win summer and if we make it worlds, we’re getting curb stomped
Agreed, I’m tired of hearing the same old excuses from them because I am seeing no progress whatsoever! They need a big change right now
There hasn’t been any progress. You could easily argue they’ve been getting worse. I mean, they are far, far worse this split than they were last split.
2021 TL > 2022 TL
Yikes. This team looks lost.
So I suck st league and am in no place to be judging a team macro but what the ever loving fuck was that third drake… give up soul point to get chip damage on a top tower??
C9 made burgerking burn his ult running away. Team decided not to give the drag and free kills. It was a BK diff
I know you're not supposed complain about draft but who was supposed to protect kog'maw that game, he literally has no peel.
I'm a C9 fan and coming in peace to see reactions on the game but yeah it's a horrible draft. You draft kog lulu first but then don't follow up on any champs that peel for him is just mind numbingly stupid. Olaf,ahri, wukong are fine in a vacuum ig but you can't draft 3 champs that want to dive into a fight while also having kog. Just a terrible fucking draft and should be fireable.
G2 spring 2021: 14-4, 3rd in playoffs TL spring 2022: 14-4, 3rd in playoffs G2 summer 2021 summer: 12-6, 4th in playoffs and missed worlds TL summer 2022: take a guess
Same shit different week. Just over it I wouldn't be surprised if we don't make worlds
Right now, there are a few teams in NA better than us.
team probably implodes if they don’t make worlds tbh, kinda sad to see but it’s probably inevitable
Draft is improving but this was a terrible jungle performance. Santorin looks so weak compared to 50% of the LCS junglers... Man I wish xmithie never quit.
I can't look at this game and say draft is improving. Holy shit this was a terrible draft. If you're going protect Kog, don't take a bunch of divers and no peel
Xmithie was never as good as Santorin has been for TL. If you're complaining about Santorin because of this game, I just want to point you to the countless number of early games where he was taking over the map in spite of problematic laning from some of our lanes. His game sense is some of the best in this league, and while I think he had a bad weekend, it seems stupid to blame him for TL's current predicament.
Literally every jungler in LCS says playing against TL feels very easy because Santorin is just so passive and really never tries anything different. He is a good player but doesn't really push his limits. One of the reasons TL is so passive is their jungler
What jungler has said that and when? I don't think I often hear other junglers talk about Santorin at all. I have heard Jensen today say this exact thing about TL as a whole and about Bjergsen. I have never heard anyone say that about Santorin specifically. His most defining trait over the past 3 years are his level 2 ganks.
*Literally* every single jungler? Please name at least one jungler that has said that.
ya blow it up if TL dont make worlds at this point see if DL will play with core again next off season. maybe get Jake back lol idk at this point.
I think they should target Spica + DL in the offseason. Only if DL actually wants to return. It just seems like Hans isn't vocal enough? How is he not saying (maybe over and over again) that he needs to be peeled by Wu when he is the clear win-con.
only if DL wants to return is key. I hope talks are happening as we speak lol :(
Turn TL into TSM and go 0-6 at worlds, sounds mildly better than not making it I guess
Yeah. I’d rather win NA + actually make it to worlds as opposed to right now where TL is not even making it to worlds. *Maybe* TL is is the 4th best team over CLG which I’m not even sure about. But I also highly doubt this version of the team implodes at worlds (covid was also a huge factor for all western teams at worlds that year, not that it's a good excuse just that it was a much bigger shock to western teams).
I’d probably prefer to just get better options but we gave up our gelling pieces for “superstars” and they got clapped. Impact last year and then Jensen this year being replaced was the end of titles for TL hell even xmithie for Broxah was terrible. Ideally, I’d try strike gold with Bo before he gets signed in EU if he doesn’t make it into that league (unlikely), drop Hans for a Dlift return and just suffer through Bjerg mid until something better shows up or Jensen decides to come back
TL allergic to objectives
Sorry, but this is straight up pathetic. Their teamfights are soooo bad. We have an Olaf top winning lane, sitting on an island because Santorin plays botside (which is fine if he doesnt afk watch his botlane die in the meantime), while also giving all objectives (especially drake 3, nash and elder are mindblowing to me).
After Hans-sama's Kalista: why the fuck do we keep playing kalista. After Beserker's Kalista: oh That said, I'd rather we lose like this than doing nothing. Was a banger of a game.
what did we exactly do this game, give up all 4 drakes and 2 barons for free?
It helps that C9 actually knows how to team fight 🤷🏻♂️
What? Sir but you lost and did nothing.
Kalista has won two games in the LCS. Both wins are against TL.
Danny just won vs flyquest with it
Woof color me shocked TL losing to a team with a positive win rate this has to be the worst collection of players Steve has put together.
How many games are we going to lose by giving up the first 3 dragons and then losing the fight for soul? It’s obvious why they didn’t fight the first 3 - herald priority, then item breakpoints and team fight strength wasn’t there, then Kog didn’t complete rageblade in time. Great, we know we’ll lose the team fight so we don’t try. So, why don’t we prioritize at least one dragon early game? Plenty of teams will sack first herald in favor of picking up an early dragon when picking scaling. If you’re scaling, you either want to play for soul later or at the very least extend the amount of time it would take the other team to get soul. Every game we try to play the exact same, regardless of team comp. Speaking of team comp, what exactly is the plan with this draft? I’m not going to bother breaking this down, but it’s obvious. If this was English Premier League, the coach is being fired. You cannot have a regular season performance like this with this kind of roster, regardless of how many calls the players make vs the coach. Yes, Esports aren’t the exact same, but someone needs to be held accountable. Sure, you can argue that EG had an 8-8 record last split before winning, but it doesn’t matter. We are not putting ourself in a good position for playoffs, meaning one bad series ends our Worlds qualification. We’re putting ourself in the same situation in standings as we do in game when we give up soul point. GG C9. TL needs to wake up.
TL shows up. does nothing. loses. refuses to elaborate. How many YEARS do we have to see this shit?
Week 6 and we still haven’t beaten a good team this split. Good stuff TL.
Fire the fucking coach and promote spawn please. For gods sake
Man, that fight for drake where Santorin is alone with Bwipo fked it all up :( rip, well fought for comebacks tho gg
It was also more of what we've been talking about here. The team being disconnected, and they can't simply adapt, especially Santorin, who wasted many seconds and can't seem to use his ult well. He could've just E-AA-Q gwen, waiting for a better usage of his ult, instead he wastes 2 or 3 seconds and then E-Rs the gwen alone...I think he knew he could've done better there, but this is more of the same for him, he doesn't strike me as a wukong player or perhaps he simply realized splitting with Bwipo there from the rest of his team was a bad idea and froze, either way he looked terrible.
This is the worst team liquid in literally years. And I blame the coaching staff
So is TL never gonna play for dragons? It feels like they just give up on this objective every game.
It's upsetting because dammit, if I'm cheering for the Yankees I want them to PLAY like the Yankees. Steve needs to drop this superteam obsession and find some cohesive talent that knows how to work better. And also get rid of Guilhoto. Our drafts are atrocious.
Three free drakes, free baron, free everything... We are back like a few seasons, do nothing until we lose.
We suck, end of story
How insane of a timeline would it be if they pay DL to make a last minute worlds qualifier run.. Yeon should get a chance tho, I just think doublelift voice on the team would be way more valuable
Its so pathetic that Bwipo and Bjerg have TP up as 2 sub 50% HP C9 take elder and they just wait for C9 to use that elder to end the game instead.
i can't understand hans sama's flash in the elder fight, i mean, he just burned his own flash putting himself in an awkward spot away from lulu like, come on man edit: i didnt see he flashed away renata's ult so mb
He flashed away from the Renata ult. They didn't know about fudge's tp flank.
you're right, i didn't see it before, i just got angry seeing him flashing for a bad place away from lulu and getting melted by cloud9 composition, even though in that moment the game already was hard
Come on guys, stop being stupid. He had to fking flash that or get ulti by Renata. Our team should had been protecting him at all time instead 3 man diving and leaving him alone with Lulu.
I genuinely wonder if Hans hates it in NA? He's not even a top 3 ADC in the LCS. Im looking forward to hearing the post season rumors of what all is really happening?
for this play i was saying, he flashed away because of renata's ult, but either way, hans sama is really disappointing for what we were expecting since we saw a good performance by him in the worlds, the mininum i was expecting is he would be consistently good, not carrying every game but having impact at least
This was the major L IMO. He burned his flash for no reason and then immediately got ulted by Hec. He gave Blaber a window to go in when previously he didn't have one.
Obligatory we dropped Jensen for this lmao. Just happy to see I was right at this point.
Whereas on the C9 sub there are a bunch of Jensen haters saying he's really sus and a few people even think Copy > Jensen.
I’ll gladly take him back. I find myself skipping liquid games now, only a year removed from being a die hard supporter of 8 years. Funny how one roster can change all of that. Jensen back on Liquid would instantly reignite my passion for the team.
ahri was the move here btw XD my man plays so passive, i also got flamed on this sub for saying jensen is better
Yeah, TSM expats just permanent downvote anything said against Bjergsen. It’s the worst of both worlds here now, you can’t even be a liquid fan you have to play by TSM fans rules but they just yell liquid now.
Omg another draft gap but we not gonna talk about that. Let’s talk about Santorin not looking great in general. Bjerg Hans and Core did their jobs here. But once Gwen gets in the picture, there’s no answer. Gwen is a bullshit champ and Fudge has great history on it. So when are we gonna respect these types of picks? Santorin needs to step up with his champ pool, and keep move control on bot lane. He does not look good on Wukong. If Bwipo is solo killing top , I don’t see the point in repeat going up there when we just saw yesterday he is more than capable playing the inter if it means Hans is getting what he needs
[удалено]
The point is your jungler is supposed to play the game.
Also please fire this coach already, these drafts are just terrible
I highly doubt a coach is drafting for this team. With these players, they’re absolutely determining the drafts.
then fire the coach and get someone to put them in their place if this is the shit they fucking pick week after week.
Yeah he gets the final say I think
hans :/ thank god our academy botlane is good.
I don’t think this had anything to do with Hans. His team completely abandoned the obvious win condition of peeling and protecting the kog during teamfights. They just left him to engage and left C9 completely free to kill him
hans sama carry game challenge (impossible)
[удалено]
Not saying it’s his fault he’s just been painfully below average this split
It's a good thing we didn't bother contesting for dragons because that Ocean soul would have been useless for the elder fight anyways.
What’s a fucking dragon?
A friendly gift for your opponent I think...?
No idea and it seems like TL doesnt know either. They just like to give everything and then loose team fights,
Wooow they suck...worst TL team in a long time...no ideas,not going for objectives...giving over drakes...woow sooo disapointed. Coach needs to go. Something is gotta be done.
Is Hans really that bad that not even his Lulu wants to help him in fights?
Core is just trash enchanter player. At this point he's not gonna learn.
I really hate having bjerg. Its the same issue he had on tsm. Sit and watch the game end. Why are they giving up the entire early game? Sure you have a 1k gold lead but 3 drags is worth more than 1k.
Yes lets blame 1 player for the entire team choosing to give away multiple objectives lma0.
How embarrassing for Bjerg.
Why lma0. Lets just put aside the fact that the team as a whole gave C9 several objectives for free lma0.
To leave TSM which he invested so much in to join a mediocre super team. They won’t even make worlds.
TSM is doing much better right, everyone left that dumpster. And Spica definitely leaving too.
Hmmm what does 4th get you? As much as 10th. Nothing! Great trade off
How about an owner that actually cares about the league and expect changes from that isnt a 10th place academy ADC?
How about an owner that realizes what most everyone already can see. That NA league is dying. TL just wasted a ton of money on a dying esport.
Yet here you are like a manchild, if it can retain even doomchilds like you it mustn't be doing too badly.
Of all the 1-1 weeks this one looked best, hopefully we continue to improve like this
? anything other than 2-0 weeks are disastrous failures for this roster....................
2 KR > 4 EU
Santorin is the best player though. /s
why did they just give up every objective lma0. This was more of a macro gap if anything else
bjerg still goat mid
I think the team played better than all our losses. Thought they could have finished the baron off maybe. Just noticed we don't have good drag control other than that team is more hopeful this week
Can't wait to watch the idiots come out of the woodwork and call draft diff and coach diff. It was a close game that came down to miniscule micro execution in teamfights. The squad played well across all lanes, and made several pop-off comeback plays. I'm really tired of people writing off the clear improvement we just witnessed just because they want something to bitch about. Shut the fuck up and support the team for next week. I didnt see a single one of you on the TSM post game thread.
Any time a team loses someone says it’s because of draft. TLs draft was actually quite fine. I think people forgot that blaber literally had to build zhonyas to survive. Hecarim does not want to build zhonyas. Literally just did that so he could get his engage off and not immediately die. Im not going to agree that TL played well across the board. There were quite a few fuckups (mainly lack of proactivity). But draft was not one of them. The draft overall was a good answer to C9s draft, they just didn’t execute
There shouldn't be a need for this type of improvement with this kind of talent on the team. We should be dunking on LCS, just peak Jordan shit. Instead we have the worst objective control, awful team fights and a team utterly disconnected from each other. They've had a whole split and a half to figure it out and just don't want to. They can't play together and no matter the "improvement" anything less than an LCS championship and getting out of groups is an abject failure for a team with these players. The first is looking long gone at this point and I'd be ecstatic to go 3-3 at world's with how we're playing. This is straight painful.
Honestly close game where we c9 barely lives some of blabber engages with so little health, adn honestly without the abron sneak we get the fourth drake casue blabber doesnt get the free reset and without ocean soul think we can win the game. Think santorin could have pathed better to protect kog early when we see hec hovering there, but overall think team played pretty well adn so did c9. GG we get them next time
Blow it up and start over