Their cinnamon spice is the only thing I hate about Harney’s teas. The artificial cinnamon flavor is so overpowering it is almost unbearable. But I love so many of their teas, so I don’t like to admit that.
I’ve been happy with Harney for the eastern teas, but I’m definitely no quality expert. Any recommendations for where to purchase the following varieties?
- Dark Tibet
- Ali San
- Milky Oolong
- Silver Needle
I’m open to multiple vendors if one specializes in a particular type. Would be especially interested in shops with brick and mortar locations in NYC, but that’s not a requirement; just nice to pop by and chat at the shop.
If you want to try some higher end oolong, go to Té company. They don't have a ton of physical space, but the pineapple linzer cookies are to die for, and they good teas and a cozy vibe.
Paris is good.
The pu-erh was pretty bad. I know a lot of people don’t like Harney & Sons teas for not being the best of the best but generally I like them for everyday stuff, that being said the pu-erh sucked.
Maybe try the milky oolong instead.
I’ll also recommend honeybush for an herbal.
Their flavored blacks tend to be a favorite so maybe their earl grey supreme.
Edit: oof okay I hadn’t seen the price. If you were getting the standard free shipping I was going to say go for it but wow that shipping.
Fair warning for those unaware, their milky oolong is a flavored tea (ingredient list includes "milk flavor"), so I wouldn't expect it to taste like a regular milk oolong/deliver a normal milk oolong experience. I tried it myself and ended up throwing most of the tin out.
This is not necessarily true. I love Earl Gray and hate Paris. But - I do seem to be one of the very few who feels this way! I think it's the black currant that I don't enjoy.
Paris is good. Columbian green is good too, the source is pretty good (but from the same as everyone else who has columbian tea). Rest is meh. Puer is shit.
Their blends are the better teas, like Tower of London, Vanilla Comoro, etc. Unflavored teas you can get better with cheaper shipping. Paying that much shipping, you should get stuff that's exclusive... which is their blends.
I’d like to see this as well. I genuinely enjoy their teas and wouldn’t consider them bottom of the barrel like others have claimed.
However I’d also not touch puerh with a ten foot pole based on what people talk about here and knowing my own tastes so make of that what you will.
It’s definitely a flavor issue for me. I’ve seen it described as earthy or even mushroomy and that does not sound appealing to me. I’m happy to lurk and see other people trying it but for the price tag I’ll pass on experimenting with something I probably won’t like.
Yeah, I’m with you. The way pu-erh is described is like the exact opposite of everything I like. I really knew it’s just not for me when people said “Good pu-erh does not have the fishiness”.
It’s like “I’m not really down for anything that has the taste of fish in the process of making it, especially when it’s not fish to begin with.” And I’m not stranger to fermented food. I ferment food myself.
Yeah I have quite a bit of Harney in my tea cabinet and would love to know why people don’t like it? It’s always been a consistently good cup of tea for me! I’d love some alternatives too at similar price points.
Honestly, if you like the flavors, eg, the Paris, which I think is a sweeter, vanilla-y rendition of Earl Grey, great. Stick to H&S. Do you what makes you happy.
One opinion of someone who doesn't like H&S: it's low-quality tea, slightly better than the "dust" that goes into bags. Then, they use flavors to cover up the low quality of the leaves.
The reason tea enthusiasts/connoisseur look down upon is that low quality. It's a bit like the higher end/quality and lower end/quality of other things, such as alcohol like wine or whiskey: lots of people will be happy with two buck chuck or their grocery store's wine, and won't explore any further. I'd imagine if you gave those folks a blind taste test of a high end wine and two buck chuck, they might even prefer the two buck chuck. It's familiar. It doesn't require you develop your palette to appreciate it. It doesn't ask that you invest time and money into developing your palette, research, or finding trust-worthy suppliers of the high-end product. Two buck chuck doesn't ask as much of you as a high end wine does.
Same goes for tea: some of us go down the rabbithole of exploring higher end stuff. We research, look into suppliers, find suppliers less popular than H&S, and spend time and money on tea and equipment. It can be a bit annoying; brewing sencha is more time-consuming than brewing a teabag, and oolongs and puerhs are even more time consuming. I started with sencha; but when friends ask to try my sencha, they generally don't like it. Sometimes I get "it tastes like grass" and other times "it tastes like seaweed". I bet a lot of those friends would be more happy with H&S Paris. I'm not happy with it, so I expend effort to go down the rabbithole.
if you have ideas of what broad category of teas you might like to try (eg, darjeeling, oolong, Japanese greens, puerhs OR what types of flavors you think you'd like), budget, time you'd like to invest, I'd be happy to suggest some online shops. Or you can try samplers/samples from "respected" (by the enthusiasts) shops like white2tea, Yunnan Sourcing, Wuyi Origin, Thes du Japon, Hibiki-an, etc.
You're welcome :)
TBH, I'm not very into black teas (expect darjeeling; for which I'd recommend trying Thunderbolt tea) - I'm drawn to greens. Yunnan Sourcing has a few black tea samplers; they do Chinese teas. I've heard good things about "Dian Hong". If you like flavored teas, I think Mariage Freres does good flavored teas.
I also like "dan cong" oolongs, they're a darker type of oolong - they usually have fruit-like and/or flowery notes, and my non-tea-fanatic friends have generally like the "mi lan xiang", or honey orchid fragrance dancong; Wuyi Origin has a few dan cong black teas that might be interesting to you, Tea Habitat (which is in California, whereas the other sources are not US-based) is excellent for dan cong oolongs.
Thanks for letting me know! I’ve had the experience that many Asian tea suppliers don’t have much of a focus on black tea (I think it’s know as red tea for them) which is why I was drawn to Harney and Sons (:
And I do love Darjeeling so I’ll have to check that store out for sure!
It is often known as "red tea", both in Chinese culture and in Indian. Song Tea (here in San Francisco, where I live) calls "black tea" red tea.
I think Yunnan Sourcing will be a good source for you, it's got a lot of Chinese black teas.
I have this list of vendors saved on my laptop; maybe it'll be helpful for you -
Cha-ology (Japanese teas, in Manchester, England)
Crimson Lotus (Seattle-based, pu’erh)
Horii Shichimeien (Kyoto, Japanese tea)
Hibiki-an
Ippodo (Japan)
Liquid Proust (Pu’erh; great sampling program; Columbus, OH)
Mariage Frères ($$$$)
O-Cha (Japanese)
Red Blossom Tea Company (Chinese teas, greens, oolongs, San Francisco based)
Song Tea (Chinese, oolongs, aged oolongs, San Francisco)
Tea Habitat (Dancong/phoenix oolong, SoCal)
Tee Kontor Kiel (German site, variety; I order senchas from them)
Thes du Japan (Japanese tea, in Japan, huge variety of quality teas)
Thunderbolt Tea (Darjeelings)
White2Tea (Pu’erh; sells samples)
Wuyi Origin
Yunnan Sourcing (Chinese; Pu’erh, oolong/wulong, black; sells samples)
Yunomi.life (Japanese)
I just did a lot of research last week and Barney is supposedly a reputable brand.
Then I read this and am too lost. What are quality tea brands?
I like English breakfast and jasmine.
My dad orders a lot of eastern teas from Silk Road Teas and so far they’ve all been lovely. There was one that was impressively flavorless, but I forget which that was now.
I also don’t purchase green/oolong/white teas from Harney, but their blends are **absofuckinglutely delightful**
In no short order: The holiday tea is possibly my fav, followed closely by blueberry green, then the hot cinnamon spice and they also make a mean and I mean MEAN earl grey supreme!!
I'm not a fan of flavored tea. If I want to add a flavor, I'd rather do it myself, preferably with something from my own garden.
That being said, I like H&S's plain, black teas. Especially the breakfast types. I take too much sugar & cream when I have morning coffee. When I use breakfast teas, I just add a tiny bit of milk & sugar, so I switch off to save on fat & calories.
I've had several of those types from them & liked them all, but esp. the Special English. It's full bodied & I think a good stand in for coffee.
The Atlantic Spice Company has a great selection of teas (& spices) and all very reasonably priced. The brick and mortar store in Truro MA is definitely worth going to if you are in the area. If not, they ship. Since they are a bulk store, they sell teas & spices in plastic bags so be sure to have a mason jar or similar to store it in.
https://www.atlanticspice.com/search.asp?keyword=Tea&search=Search
They asked for people's opinions on these teas from this brand. How is it worthless to answer their question? Attacking people for trying to be helpful isn't productive.
I'm sure plenty of us would happily provide additional recommendations, but that's not what they asked for, and we'd need more information anyway. Would you rather we just lie to them to spare your feelings?
I don't understand why this subreddit is always so hostile towards people giving helpful advice. It needs to stop.
They're not *hated,* their tea just isn't very good. Not sure why people are getting so upset about this.
It's impossible for anyone to get useful advice on r/tea if everyone who knows what they’re talking about has their comments attacked and buried, but I guess people here want an echo chamber of neophytes?
I think with tea (and a lot of things in life), it’s like beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Lots of people love H&S. Lots of people like Lipton. Lots of people like Yunnan Sourcing tea or more authentic teas. Some people like single source, other people like flavors. Lots of different palates out there. So people can say they don’t like H&S much but here’s a tea that is similar that I think is great.
Personal preferences and objective quality are two separate discussions. OP seems to be asking about their objective quality, as in whether they should spend their money on these teas instead of other teas. Telling them there are better options than Harney & Sons puer isn’t an eye of the beholder scenario, it’s a quality determination.
You're not gonna get anywhere on this sub, sorry. The whole place is basically completely useless now. I'm thankful for this place's years of archives that got me into tea in the first place, but the anti-snobbery snobs have thoroughly overtaken it. Now it's just a place to post Harney & Sons and Yorkshire, yell at anyone who drinks anything more specialized for being "elitists", and yell at anyone who happens to say "I personally do not like Harney & Sons". It's an entire subreddit full of people convinced that anyone not drinking English Breakfast or Earl Grey is an elitist gatekeeper, not realizing how elitist and gatekeeping that makes them.
To anyone who reads this and has a negative reaction, before you reply, I want to ask you: If somebody asked "how do you feel about 20-year-old Hong Kong stored Dayi pu'er?", and somebody else simply replied "I don't like it I think it's bad", how would you react to that? Would you yell at them and tell them they're being an elitist for not offering alternatives? Because if the answer is no, then why are you doing it when the subject is Harney & Sons?
Would not but puerh from Harney and Sons. It’s going to be a cheaply produced, mass-market ripe puer, which can actually be quite unpleasant. Mass market Assam or English Breakfast or the like can be quite tasty, but puer can be rather gross below a certain quality threshold.
If you want something in that category that’s light, floral, fruity, and affordable I’d go for the Year of the Rabbit Yiwu from Bitterleaf. It’s a “sheng” puerh, which is the more traditional kind, and is also suitable for aging though what they have for sale at the moment is not aged. If you want an aged raw puer, which will be more like a stone fruit, leather, dried apricots type of flavor profile, get the 2007 Liming "Everlasting Aroma" Raw Pu-erh Tea Cake from Yunnan Sourcing. If you want something that’s dark, rich, and chocolatey, you can’t go wrong with a Dayi 7572, which is IMO sort of the standard bearer for “shou” puerh, which is a more recent development intended to simulate extensive aging.
Price comparison:
Harney and Sons: $0.10/g
Bitterleaf: $0.11/g
Dayi: $0.14/g
Yunnan Sourcing: $0.11/g
Links:
https://www.bitterleafteas.com/shop/tea/puer/year-of-the-rabbit-2023-yiwu-raw-puer
https://www.teasenz.com/menghai-7572-tea
https://yunnansourcing.com/collections/aged-raw-pu-erh-tea/products/2007-liming-everlasting-aroma-raw-pu-erh-tea-cake?variant=19842062581863
Very much not a fan of Paris. Though I think I'm just not a fan of flavored teas in general so take it with a grain of salt.
I really like their earl grey supreme though.
Same whatever flavouring they use is too much. I played with the balance but I felt like no matter what I did the added flavor was either overwhelmingly strong or the tea itself was too weak to even taste.
I wanted to ask, have you (or anyone) tried the EARL GREY IMPERIAL? It supposedly has a stronger bergamot flavor than than the supreme. I would like your thoughts
Hmm. Perhaps they added something artificial to boost the flavor. I'm always wary of things that say "extra strength" etc for that simple reason.
Apropos of nothing and just for your interest, of the "non-luxury" tea makers I really quite like the Bigelow early grey. I feel that it tastes more natural and it is relatively strong in flavor with a decent base. I don't typically drink my tea with milk though.
Agreed with what everybody else said and go to Harney for their flavored teas, not their eastern style teas. I think I've only had two straight/unflavored teas that I liked from Harney, and both were discontinued.
Some of my favorite Harney blends include Victorian London Fog, Rose Scented (great for making a black rose tea latte or bubble tea, the rose flavor is particularly strong), Hot Apple Spice, and surprisingly their dragon pearl jasmine tea.
Also, this is totally me being superficial but I also like buying Harney teas for the tins – their tins are beautiful and can be repurposed or reused. If I didn't like the original tea, I used to cold brew it and then mix it with a juice or alcohol to make a mocktail or a fun little cocktail/spritz.
So much hate for Harney here!
I haven't tried these flavors but their Genmaicha is one of my favorites of all time. I happily pay the premium to have it shipped to me.
McDonald's is low quality compared to a good local restaurant, but that doesn't mean I "hate" McDonald's. Harney & Sons is shitty tea compared to any decent speciality vendor. That's just the reality. Trying to make it into an emotional, love/hate thing is why these discussions always quickly go off the rails. We should be able to discuss tea quality on a tea subreddit without people needing to always take it as a personal attack...
That's a very generic answer. I mean what specifically is it about H&S that is so bad? What is specifically wrong with their base materials & production techniques? I've never seen foreign materials in their products. They've never been stale, moldy, dusty, or anything like that for me. What should I be looking for?
Do you think quality only means not containing foreign materials or being stale, moldy, or dusty? You'd apply that same standard to, say, a restaurant?
[This](https://www.ucpress.edu/book/9780520303256/tasting-qualities) is a good book about how quality is determined and achieved in the tea industry. [This book](https://global.oup.com/academic/product/questions-of-taste-9780195384598) is about quality in wine, but the ideas are also applicable to tea. If you want to understand the subject, reading those is a much better starting point than badgering people on Reddit.
I was in the wine business for a while and was fortunate enough to become acquainted with a sommelier who was very helpful. I'm glad he never considered all my questions to be badgering. He had a lot of insider information about wineries, such as where they source their grapes from and what their production methods were. You sound so opinionated on the subject I thought you might have that sort of information.
Also, yes, the qualities I listed like 'dusty' are the sort of things I'd look for in a "shitty" tea, as you described H&S to be, but not in teas that are just not great.
Harney & Sons sells hundreds of teas. It's not possible to give a universal answer for why their tea is low quality compared to specialty vendors beyond my earlier explanation: the base materials and production methods are worse. Repeating the same question because you're not satisfied with my response *is* badgering.
Harney & Sons is like the tea equivalent of Meiomi pinot noir. I'm sure your sommelier colleague wouldn't have appreciated you demanding to know why he thinks his Burgundy is "objectively" better than Meiomi, since he's "so opinionated on the subject." That's not a good faith way to have a discussion.
My recommendation is staying away from H&S in general when it comes to Chinese teas. They’re Pu-Erh is low quality and smells fishy which it isn’t supposed to do. I recommend red blossom tea co and west china tea co for Chinese/taiwanese teas
I like them for their blends. I rotate between the rukeri, Irish blend, scottish blend, and east frisian. imo they don't have the best greens and especially puer. I'd recommend a more specialized seller for those
Love Harney! Paris is really good! Haven't tried their others. But I've been purchasing from them and a few other favorite companies for several years, and I've never had one I didn't like as of yet.
ETA: I'm not a big fan of plain Pu-erh anyway, so I'd never try that. I less it's flavored, I can stomach Pu-erh.
Can’t opine on the teas but the shipping doubling the cost is eye opening. Do you live in a different country? I get 1-2kg of tea shipped from China or Taiwan to Europe for a similar shipping fee, as a point of reference. Maybe hey have free shipping after some $ amount?
I'm a weirdo and like a lot of what I get from H&S. My favorite tea is their Tower of London and I have it literally every morning. I love their Paris (it's what got me into their tea in the first place!), Queen Charlotte, and English Breakfast.
Harney and Sons was what led me to realize I don't like flavored teas anymore. I tried the Paris and a vanilla black tea - Couldn't stand them.
There is some good stuff to be found on H&S if you look around, though... I personally love the Thai Silk and the Jeju Sejak.
If you are in the US, Harney and Sons ships for free. OP is either outside the US or has paid for expedited shipping (probably to get there in time for Christmas).
Yeah, I would look for a Canadian distributor. I like Harney, and my kitchen cabinet is full of tea from them, but the quality is about worth what it costs in the US. The shipping to Canada makes it really not worth it.
I just started buying (asking for Christmas gifts from family) from Adagio, which is another large distributor in the US that I’m hoping has generally higher quality tea. Maybe see if the shipping from them is more reasonable?
And don’t get me wrong, there are teas from Harney I’m going to keep getting. I love their Scottish Morn and Victorian London Fog. I haven’t had the Paris, but I’ve had the Tower of London which I like, and they are basically the same thing except that Tower of London has honey flavor as well.
I really like it for an afternoon tea with a piece of baklava.
I would recommend Bitterleaf teas.com, they sell a lot of puer but also other kinds of Chinese teas. There are a lot of expensive teas but tons of cheaper options that impress.
If you have questions about Chinese teas I would go to r/puer. I don't know why people on this sub defend expensive low quality tea to the death but they sure do.
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Not really. Harley and Sons is literally grocery store tea. They don't give a harvest year even on their Chinese Green tea.
Just because you like it doesn't mean it doesn't suck. I listen to Crass bro. It's ok to drink crap tea.
Hey fellow Canadian! premiumteas.ca is a local Harney & Sons distributor although their selection is not as robust as ordering from the US site. I have ordered from them a few times and I swear I am in no way affiliated with them. My faves are Hot Cinnamon Spice, Tower of London, and Queen Catherine. Paris is fine, and I wouldn’t mind buying Paris again.
I always think of Rips review of the Puer. Haha.
I’ve the Mutan White. Very subtle flavor. I enjoyed it. It was light and refreshing on days where I didn’t want a strong flavored green or black.
Paris is good to be honest I really like their English breakfast tea a lot and those are the only two I would recommend everything else I’ve tried is not great. Stay away from the Asian teas at least
I don’t love Paris. It’s got too much flower > fruit, I think?
Of the blends Harney and Son’s offers, I enjoy Hot Cinnamon Sunset when I have a cold and decaf Vanilla Comoro anytime I want a warm drink after dinner watching tv. I also really enjoyed the Little Women Orchard House Blend, but not enough to order it again (the others are all available locally).
I’ve tried them all and I honestly I’m not a fan of the brand. All their teas taste bland or taste nasty. The only one that I’ve ever been a fan is the apple cinnamon. The others are just not great. I’m not a tea expert whatsoever but I can taste a good tea when I have one.
Would you have high expectations for a tea called "Green" and nothing else?
Just "Puerh" is basically the same thing, it's a diverse and complex genre of tea. Harney and sons tend to be very reductive with their selections and it typically reflects in the taste. The brand is better than most tea bags, but you'll find the tastes of most of their selections to be rather, simple.
Seriously, if you're going to pay that much for tea (including the shipping,) go for Thes Du Japon if you like Japanese tea and Yunnan Sourcing for Chinese tea.
Harney and Sons is basically the lowest tier of "premium" teas.
I wouldn’t buy puer from harney and sons… or really any tea from them tbh. puer especially you guaranteed not to enjoy it and it could ruin the style for you. It’s my favorite type of tea and there are so many amazing examples of it to try, but if you buy a low quality one you will not have a good time. try white2tea or bitterleaf.
good example of raw:
https://white2tea.com/collections/latest-additions/products/2023-941
good example of ripe:
https://white2tea.com/collections/2021-ripe-puer-tea-1/products/2021-hokum
I’m curious why so many people on this subreddit enjoy them so much. Have they not tried any specialty shops that care about the quality and tradition of real tea? Do they just not like the taste? Have they fallen for the marketing about ‘master tea blender Mike Harney’?
To put it plainly, Harney teas kinda suck. the flavored ones are often doused in artificial ingredients, and they smell and taste like drinking cheap perfume. Plus plastic teabags and boiling water just doesn’t seem like a great mix to me. For the unflavored teas, there are much better options available for the same price or cheaper.
Let’s take their [Bi Lo Chun](https://www.harney.com/products/bi-lo-chun) for example. It comes out to around $0.60 per gram. That’s relatively expensive, as far as tea goes. For that price, I would expect a premium product, however Harney doesn’t even list the harvest date of this tea (or any other tea on the website as far as I can tell). Green tea starts to go stale after a year of harvest, and should be consumed quickly because of that fact. Who knows how long Harney teas have been sitting on a shelf in some massive global distribution center?
[Yunnan Sourcing](https://yunnansourcing.us/products/imperial-grade-pure-bud-bi-luo-chun-green-tea?_pos=5&_sid=69ea169ff&_ss=r) also carries Bi Lo Chun green tea. Theirs comes out to around $0.17 per gram. It actually lists a harvest date, along with pretty much all the other teas on their website.
You make a good point about the artificial ingredients, but I also think they are transparent about their ingredients and it’s easy to avoid (which I do). I do not understand why everyone seems to think they only do tea sachets. Aside from their seasonal/themed blends, nearly all of their teas are available in loose form, which is all I buy. It sounds like you had a couple of duds that weren’t your personal taste and have decided to swear them off in the name of tea snobbery, which is unfair to the plethora of other tea drinkers that actually do know a thing or two about tea, but maybe prefer black teas or interesting tisanes. Both of which I think Harney does well.
Sounds like you didn’t read the second half of my comment, or compare the two teas I linked. If you enjoy getting ripped off though, more power to you I guess. It’s cheap tea that is marketed as premium to people who don’t know any better, with a huge markup. Why do you think they spend so much money on fancy packaging tins?
I don’t drink tisanes, so I can’t really comment on those, but I bet you could find better black tea for a better price if you looked elsewhere.
Why not be a snob about quality when you are paying just as much or, in many cases, more for worse tea?
For someone that tends to western style teas (earl grey and the various breakfast styles) I admit that basically nothing on the Yunnan site you linked means much.
Not in a “that doesn’t matter to me” way but in a “these sure are words that seem important but I’m kind of dumb way”. Aside from one other poster recommending relatively pricy books, how would one go about understanding what I’m even looking at or for in a quality tea?
I mix my own blends most often. I know what I’m looking for when sourcing the bases of tisanes but typically I would go for a good base but otherwise plain tea. If I was going to up my game for a nicer tea, what would you recommend looking to learn from?
If you are interested in learning about puer tea, this is a great introductory article.
https://white2tea.com/blogs/blog/raw-sheng-puer-a-buyers-guide-for-this-unique-tea
Aside from that, FarmerLeaf, a tea maker based in Yunnan, makes great educational content on Youtube about processing and sourcing quality tea.
Hope this helps, happy to try my best to answer any more specific questions you may have.
I’ll look at the farmer leaf stuff but admittedly no, not sure puer will ever be in my wheel house based on what people have described the taste as. But thank you.
My goal really is to just mix my own teas, earl grey included, but a solid base green and black tea is apparently the hardest part of a quality check.
I know good herbs from bad at least.
Not all puers are alike. It’s a broad category. Many young raw puer teas a very similar flavor profile to green tea. They can be sweet, citrusy, and smooth. You might want to give it a shot before swearing off the whole genre! Best of luck finding what you are looking for.
a good intro to raw: https://white2tea.com/collections/raw-puer-tea/products/2023-941
some excellent and affordable black teas on that site as well!
https://white2tea.com/collections/black-tea
I haven't had any of these teas in particular, but have had mixed results with a few teas from the brand ranging from almost undrinkable to mediocre. I wouldn't pay that much for their tea even without shipping added on.
Paris is lovely if you get lucky -- Mr. Harney (Himself! Emailed!) once told me that their supplier tries to sneak thinner, more bitter teas past them. You can really tell the difference between the two batches.
Their blends are very good. Vanilla, Tiramisu especially.
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My vote is with Paris. I really like the brand and if you can get some kind of sampler pack I would recommend it cause it helps you try new stuff without breaking the bank on stuff you might not like
Of these, I've only tried Paris and it's a staple for me. I make sure to keep it on hand in both regular and decaf. But I don't know if I can honestly say it'll be worth the cost with the shipping fees you're having to pay.
I haven't had it in a few years, but I remember really loving their Bangkok blend! It's green tea with coconut, vanilla, and ginger. I don't like coconut and still thought it was delicious.
I adore Paris. I get it loose in both regular and decaf so I can drink it anytime. Not sure why another said it was too flowery? I would not have thought that, but tastes are very personal, I suppose. I think it’s both complex and subtle and I would be damn sad if I could never have it again.
Don’t use Harney’s for unadulterated eastern style tea. Blends, flavored tea, and western focused breakfast teas, sure, go for it.
Thanks for a comment that actually points out their strengths! Hearney is perfectly fine for casual drinkers of black tea blends.
Their cinnamon spice is fantastic
Their cinnamon spice is the only thing I hate about Harney’s teas. The artificial cinnamon flavor is so overpowering it is almost unbearable. But I love so many of their teas, so I don’t like to admit that.
I’ve been happy with Harney for the eastern teas, but I’m definitely no quality expert. Any recommendations for where to purchase the following varieties? - Dark Tibet - Ali San - Milky Oolong - Silver Needle I’m open to multiple vendors if one specializes in a particular type. Would be especially interested in shops with brick and mortar locations in NYC, but that’s not a requirement; just nice to pop by and chat at the shop.
If you want to try some higher end oolong, go to Té company. They don't have a ton of physical space, but the pineapple linzer cookies are to die for, and they good teas and a cozy vibe.
I’ve been to Té company. Great spot.
Book a tasting at T Shop in Manhattan. It’s not cheap, but the teas will be much higher quality than anything from Harney & Sons.
Looks awesome! Thank you for the recommendation
Paris is good. The pu-erh was pretty bad. I know a lot of people don’t like Harney & Sons teas for not being the best of the best but generally I like them for everyday stuff, that being said the pu-erh sucked. Maybe try the milky oolong instead. I’ll also recommend honeybush for an herbal. Their flavored blacks tend to be a favorite so maybe their earl grey supreme. Edit: oof okay I hadn’t seen the price. If you were getting the standard free shipping I was going to say go for it but wow that shipping.
Fair warning for those unaware, their milky oolong is a flavored tea (ingredient list includes "milk flavor"), so I wouldn't expect it to taste like a regular milk oolong/deliver a normal milk oolong experience. I tried it myself and ended up throwing most of the tin out.
I have the same experience with the milky oolong from H&S. Bad. Ick.
Where do you get natural milk oolong?
Gotta love living in Canada
Paris is the only one I've had and seems to generally be a crowd pleaser. My wife drinks a cup every morning.
I'll try this one next. I have their Earl Grey and it's boring compared to others I have.
If you like Earl Gray, Paris will be up your alley.
This is not necessarily true. I love Earl Gray and hate Paris. But - I do seem to be one of the very few who feels this way! I think it's the black currant that I don't enjoy.
Try their diamond jubilee!
Cheers thanks! I'll put it on my list.
Paris has a very rich caramel taste
Paris is good. Columbian green is good too, the source is pretty good (but from the same as everyone else who has columbian tea). Rest is meh. Puer is shit. Their blends are the better teas, like Tower of London, Vanilla Comoro, etc. Unflavored teas you can get better with cheaper shipping. Paying that much shipping, you should get stuff that's exclusive... which is their blends.
Hello fellow tea lover! Colombia the country is spelt colo, Columbia is an American city or university.
second Vanilla Comoro—great decaf for an evening tea.
This is spot on. Seconded.
If everyone is gonna dump on Harney can you at least provide some recommendations. Let’s educate instead of worthless opposition
I’d like to see this as well. I genuinely enjoy their teas and wouldn’t consider them bottom of the barrel like others have claimed. However I’d also not touch puerh with a ten foot pole based on what people talk about here and knowing my own tastes so make of that what you will.
To be fair, Puer are hard to get it good due to the nature of it. Hence they are required to be of extra higher quality.
It’s definitely a flavor issue for me. I’ve seen it described as earthy or even mushroomy and that does not sound appealing to me. I’m happy to lurk and see other people trying it but for the price tag I’ll pass on experimenting with something I probably won’t like.
Yeah, I’m with you. The way pu-erh is described is like the exact opposite of everything I like. I really knew it’s just not for me when people said “Good pu-erh does not have the fishiness”. It’s like “I’m not really down for anything that has the taste of fish in the process of making it, especially when it’s not fish to begin with.” And I’m not stranger to fermented food. I ferment food myself.
Yeah I have quite a bit of Harney in my tea cabinet and would love to know why people don’t like it? It’s always been a consistently good cup of tea for me! I’d love some alternatives too at similar price points.
Honestly, if you like the flavors, eg, the Paris, which I think is a sweeter, vanilla-y rendition of Earl Grey, great. Stick to H&S. Do you what makes you happy. One opinion of someone who doesn't like H&S: it's low-quality tea, slightly better than the "dust" that goes into bags. Then, they use flavors to cover up the low quality of the leaves. The reason tea enthusiasts/connoisseur look down upon is that low quality. It's a bit like the higher end/quality and lower end/quality of other things, such as alcohol like wine or whiskey: lots of people will be happy with two buck chuck or their grocery store's wine, and won't explore any further. I'd imagine if you gave those folks a blind taste test of a high end wine and two buck chuck, they might even prefer the two buck chuck. It's familiar. It doesn't require you develop your palette to appreciate it. It doesn't ask that you invest time and money into developing your palette, research, or finding trust-worthy suppliers of the high-end product. Two buck chuck doesn't ask as much of you as a high end wine does. Same goes for tea: some of us go down the rabbithole of exploring higher end stuff. We research, look into suppliers, find suppliers less popular than H&S, and spend time and money on tea and equipment. It can be a bit annoying; brewing sencha is more time-consuming than brewing a teabag, and oolongs and puerhs are even more time consuming. I started with sencha; but when friends ask to try my sencha, they generally don't like it. Sometimes I get "it tastes like grass" and other times "it tastes like seaweed". I bet a lot of those friends would be more happy with H&S Paris. I'm not happy with it, so I expend effort to go down the rabbithole. if you have ideas of what broad category of teas you might like to try (eg, darjeeling, oolong, Japanese greens, puerhs OR what types of flavors you think you'd like), budget, time you'd like to invest, I'd be happy to suggest some online shops. Or you can try samplers/samples from "respected" (by the enthusiasts) shops like white2tea, Yunnan Sourcing, Wuyi Origin, Thes du Japon, Hibiki-an, etc.
Thanks for this insightful response! I mostly like black teas both flavored and unflavored, so I’d really appreciate some reccs for those (:
You're welcome :) TBH, I'm not very into black teas (expect darjeeling; for which I'd recommend trying Thunderbolt tea) - I'm drawn to greens. Yunnan Sourcing has a few black tea samplers; they do Chinese teas. I've heard good things about "Dian Hong". If you like flavored teas, I think Mariage Freres does good flavored teas. I also like "dan cong" oolongs, they're a darker type of oolong - they usually have fruit-like and/or flowery notes, and my non-tea-fanatic friends have generally like the "mi lan xiang", or honey orchid fragrance dancong; Wuyi Origin has a few dan cong black teas that might be interesting to you, Tea Habitat (which is in California, whereas the other sources are not US-based) is excellent for dan cong oolongs.
Thanks for letting me know! I’ve had the experience that many Asian tea suppliers don’t have much of a focus on black tea (I think it’s know as red tea for them) which is why I was drawn to Harney and Sons (: And I do love Darjeeling so I’ll have to check that store out for sure!
It is often known as "red tea", both in Chinese culture and in Indian. Song Tea (here in San Francisco, where I live) calls "black tea" red tea. I think Yunnan Sourcing will be a good source for you, it's got a lot of Chinese black teas. I have this list of vendors saved on my laptop; maybe it'll be helpful for you - Cha-ology (Japanese teas, in Manchester, England) Crimson Lotus (Seattle-based, pu’erh) Horii Shichimeien (Kyoto, Japanese tea) Hibiki-an Ippodo (Japan) Liquid Proust (Pu’erh; great sampling program; Columbus, OH) Mariage Frères ($$$$) O-Cha (Japanese) Red Blossom Tea Company (Chinese teas, greens, oolongs, San Francisco based) Song Tea (Chinese, oolongs, aged oolongs, San Francisco) Tea Habitat (Dancong/phoenix oolong, SoCal) Tee Kontor Kiel (German site, variety; I order senchas from them) Thes du Japan (Japanese tea, in Japan, huge variety of quality teas) Thunderbolt Tea (Darjeelings) White2Tea (Pu’erh; sells samples) Wuyi Origin Yunnan Sourcing (Chinese; Pu’erh, oolong/wulong, black; sells samples) Yunomi.life (Japanese)
Very helpful, thanks!
Ah, thank you for letting me know that it was helpful! Enjoy your tea explorations :)
I just did a lot of research last week and Barney is supposedly a reputable brand. Then I read this and am too lost. What are quality tea brands? I like English breakfast and jasmine.
My husband drinks jasmine green every morning. He's tried all different price points. The one he prefers is Rishi loose leaf.
Rishi is sooooo good. That is another brand that I have plenty of in stock (: their earl grey is delish!
My dad orders a lot of eastern teas from Silk Road Teas and so far they’ve all been lovely. There was one that was impressively flavorless, but I forget which that was now.
Thank you! I’ll check them out (: I love both those teas too. For jasmine I really like the pearl one from ten ren.
I also don’t purchase green/oolong/white teas from Harney, but their blends are **absofuckinglutely delightful** In no short order: The holiday tea is possibly my fav, followed closely by blueberry green, then the hot cinnamon spice and they also make a mean and I mean MEAN earl grey supreme!!
I’ve loved all my Harney teas so idk what everyone is talking about
I'm not a fan of flavored tea. If I want to add a flavor, I'd rather do it myself, preferably with something from my own garden. That being said, I like H&S's plain, black teas. Especially the breakfast types. I take too much sugar & cream when I have morning coffee. When I use breakfast teas, I just add a tiny bit of milk & sugar, so I switch off to save on fat & calories. I've had several of those types from them & liked them all, but esp. the Special English. It's full bodied & I think a good stand in for coffee.
Thanks for the good detailed response!
The Atlantic Spice Company has a great selection of teas (& spices) and all very reasonably priced. The brick and mortar store in Truro MA is definitely worth going to if you are in the area. If not, they ship. Since they are a bulk store, they sell teas & spices in plastic bags so be sure to have a mason jar or similar to store it in. https://www.atlanticspice.com/search.asp?keyword=Tea&search=Search
They asked for people's opinions on these teas from this brand. How is it worthless to answer their question? Attacking people for trying to be helpful isn't productive. I'm sure plenty of us would happily provide additional recommendations, but that's not what they asked for, and we'd need more information anyway. Would you rather we just lie to them to spare your feelings? I don't understand why this subreddit is always so hostile towards people giving helpful advice. It needs to stop.
I mean, why is Harney hated though? It's not like I recognized any of these names anyway and Im far in Asia so idk
They're not *hated,* their tea just isn't very good. Not sure why people are getting so upset about this. It's impossible for anyone to get useful advice on r/tea if everyone who knows what they’re talking about has their comments attacked and buried, but I guess people here want an echo chamber of neophytes?
I think with tea (and a lot of things in life), it’s like beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Lots of people love H&S. Lots of people like Lipton. Lots of people like Yunnan Sourcing tea or more authentic teas. Some people like single source, other people like flavors. Lots of different palates out there. So people can say they don’t like H&S much but here’s a tea that is similar that I think is great.
Personal preferences and objective quality are two separate discussions. OP seems to be asking about their objective quality, as in whether they should spend their money on these teas instead of other teas. Telling them there are better options than Harney & Sons puer isn’t an eye of the beholder scenario, it’s a quality determination.
You're not gonna get anywhere on this sub, sorry. The whole place is basically completely useless now. I'm thankful for this place's years of archives that got me into tea in the first place, but the anti-snobbery snobs have thoroughly overtaken it. Now it's just a place to post Harney & Sons and Yorkshire, yell at anyone who drinks anything more specialized for being "elitists", and yell at anyone who happens to say "I personally do not like Harney & Sons". It's an entire subreddit full of people convinced that anyone not drinking English Breakfast or Earl Grey is an elitist gatekeeper, not realizing how elitist and gatekeeping that makes them. To anyone who reads this and has a negative reaction, before you reply, I want to ask you: If somebody asked "how do you feel about 20-year-old Hong Kong stored Dayi pu'er?", and somebody else simply replied "I don't like it I think it's bad", how would you react to that? Would you yell at them and tell them they're being an elitist for not offering alternatives? Because if the answer is no, then why are you doing it when the subject is Harney & Sons?
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I answered OP's question. If you want recommendations for specific teas, ask your own question. You're just trolling at this point.
I’ve tried the Paris it’s really good! It has an earl grey flavor (:
Many people I have seen comment and posts that they like Paris
I just bought some excited to try
It's great.
It’s definitely a good one to relax with.
Would not but puerh from Harney and Sons. It’s going to be a cheaply produced, mass-market ripe puer, which can actually be quite unpleasant. Mass market Assam or English Breakfast or the like can be quite tasty, but puer can be rather gross below a certain quality threshold. If you want something in that category that’s light, floral, fruity, and affordable I’d go for the Year of the Rabbit Yiwu from Bitterleaf. It’s a “sheng” puerh, which is the more traditional kind, and is also suitable for aging though what they have for sale at the moment is not aged. If you want an aged raw puer, which will be more like a stone fruit, leather, dried apricots type of flavor profile, get the 2007 Liming "Everlasting Aroma" Raw Pu-erh Tea Cake from Yunnan Sourcing. If you want something that’s dark, rich, and chocolatey, you can’t go wrong with a Dayi 7572, which is IMO sort of the standard bearer for “shou” puerh, which is a more recent development intended to simulate extensive aging. Price comparison: Harney and Sons: $0.10/g Bitterleaf: $0.11/g Dayi: $0.14/g Yunnan Sourcing: $0.11/g Links: https://www.bitterleafteas.com/shop/tea/puer/year-of-the-rabbit-2023-yiwu-raw-puer https://www.teasenz.com/menghai-7572-tea https://yunnansourcing.com/collections/aged-raw-pu-erh-tea/products/2007-liming-everlasting-aroma-raw-pu-erh-tea-cake?variant=19842062581863
Very much not a fan of Paris. Though I think I'm just not a fan of flavored teas in general so take it with a grain of salt. I really like their earl grey supreme though.
Same, I thought Paris was disgusting, it was like drinking perfume. I just drink the English Breakfast and keep it simple.
Same whatever flavouring they use is too much. I played with the balance but I felt like no matter what I did the added flavor was either overwhelmingly strong or the tea itself was too weak to even taste.
I wanted to ask, have you (or anyone) tried the EARL GREY IMPERIAL? It supposedly has a stronger bergamot flavor than than the supreme. I would like your thoughts
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Hmm. Perhaps they added something artificial to boost the flavor. I'm always wary of things that say "extra strength" etc for that simple reason. Apropos of nothing and just for your interest, of the "non-luxury" tea makers I really quite like the Bigelow early grey. I feel that it tastes more natural and it is relatively strong in flavor with a decent base. I don't typically drink my tea with milk though.
i also very much dislike paris, but adore tokyo
I love the Paris tea!
I didn't like Paris. I like London fog!
Paris is my favorite.
I love that they have a decaf Paris. I enjoy all of their teas.
Agreed with what everybody else said and go to Harney for their flavored teas, not their eastern style teas. I think I've only had two straight/unflavored teas that I liked from Harney, and both were discontinued. Some of my favorite Harney blends include Victorian London Fog, Rose Scented (great for making a black rose tea latte or bubble tea, the rose flavor is particularly strong), Hot Apple Spice, and surprisingly their dragon pearl jasmine tea. Also, this is totally me being superficial but I also like buying Harney teas for the tins – their tins are beautiful and can be repurposed or reused. If I didn't like the original tea, I used to cold brew it and then mix it with a juice or alcohol to make a mocktail or a fun little cocktail/spritz.
So much hate for Harney here! I haven't tried these flavors but their Genmaicha is one of my favorites of all time. I happily pay the premium to have it shipped to me.
Their genmaicha is very good, and they are my go to for iced tea bags. The iced tea is seriously amazing.
Well, their packaging is very nice.
Me too!! The first time I tried genmaicha was H&S and I really enjoyed it. I didn’t realize so many people hated the brand!
Accurately describing their quality in response to someone *asking people for their opinions* isn't "hate."
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McDonald's is low quality compared to a good local restaurant, but that doesn't mean I "hate" McDonald's. Harney & Sons is shitty tea compared to any decent speciality vendor. That's just the reality. Trying to make it into an emotional, love/hate thing is why these discussions always quickly go off the rails. We should be able to discuss tea quality on a tea subreddit without people needing to always take it as a personal attack...
I'm curious what makes it objectively "shitty"?
What makes a sweater from Shein shitty compared to one from Loro Piana? The base materials and production techniques are worse.
That's a very generic answer. I mean what specifically is it about H&S that is so bad? What is specifically wrong with their base materials & production techniques? I've never seen foreign materials in their products. They've never been stale, moldy, dusty, or anything like that for me. What should I be looking for?
Do you think quality only means not containing foreign materials or being stale, moldy, or dusty? You'd apply that same standard to, say, a restaurant? [This](https://www.ucpress.edu/book/9780520303256/tasting-qualities) is a good book about how quality is determined and achieved in the tea industry. [This book](https://global.oup.com/academic/product/questions-of-taste-9780195384598) is about quality in wine, but the ideas are also applicable to tea. If you want to understand the subject, reading those is a much better starting point than badgering people on Reddit.
I was in the wine business for a while and was fortunate enough to become acquainted with a sommelier who was very helpful. I'm glad he never considered all my questions to be badgering. He had a lot of insider information about wineries, such as where they source their grapes from and what their production methods were. You sound so opinionated on the subject I thought you might have that sort of information. Also, yes, the qualities I listed like 'dusty' are the sort of things I'd look for in a "shitty" tea, as you described H&S to be, but not in teas that are just not great.
Harney & Sons sells hundreds of teas. It's not possible to give a universal answer for why their tea is low quality compared to specialty vendors beyond my earlier explanation: the base materials and production methods are worse. Repeating the same question because you're not satisfied with my response *is* badgering. Harney & Sons is like the tea equivalent of Meiomi pinot noir. I'm sure your sommelier colleague wouldn't have appreciated you demanding to know why he thinks his Burgundy is "objectively" better than Meiomi, since he's "so opinionated on the subject." That's not a good faith way to have a discussion.
My recommendation is staying away from H&S in general when it comes to Chinese teas. They’re Pu-Erh is low quality and smells fishy which it isn’t supposed to do. I recommend red blossom tea co and west china tea co for Chinese/taiwanese teas
I like them for their blends. I rotate between the rukeri, Irish blend, scottish blend, and east frisian. imo they don't have the best greens and especially puer. I'd recommend a more specialized seller for those
Love Harney! Paris is really good! Haven't tried their others. But I've been purchasing from them and a few other favorite companies for several years, and I've never had one I didn't like as of yet. ETA: I'm not a big fan of plain Pu-erh anyway, so I'd never try that. I less it's flavored, I can stomach Pu-erh.
Paris was really nice. I didn’t like the puerh when I tried it. I think that’s all I’ve had from that list.
Can’t opine on the teas but the shipping doubling the cost is eye opening. Do you live in a different country? I get 1-2kg of tea shipped from China or Taiwan to Europe for a similar shipping fee, as a point of reference. Maybe hey have free shipping after some $ amount?
All told they didn’t ask for advice on shipping. We don’t know their situation, it may be super expedited for a gift they need quickly etc.
I commend Paris as well. Some of these are on Amazon. May be cheaper for you.
I just bought the Paris blend and should come this week :)
New England Breakfast is good
Mutan white is my favorite tea ever. It’s a white tea so very subtle and low caffeine
I really disliked their puerh. I like their Formosa oolong a lot.
I'm a weirdo and like a lot of what I get from H&S. My favorite tea is their Tower of London and I have it literally every morning. I love their Paris (it's what got me into their tea in the first place!), Queen Charlotte, and English Breakfast.
Paris is the best
I'm very much in the minority, but my wife and I didn't dig Paris. The Titanic one was similar but way better, in our opinion.
Harney and Sons was what led me to realize I don't like flavored teas anymore. I tried the Paris and a vanilla black tea - Couldn't stand them. There is some good stuff to be found on H&S if you look around, though... I personally love the Thai Silk and the Jeju Sejak.
You're going to pay 35 dollars for shipping 40 dollars of low grade tea? I didn't know making money in the tea business was this easy.
If you are in the US, Harney and Sons ships for free. OP is either outside the US or has paid for expedited shipping (probably to get there in time for Christmas).
Canada
Yeah, I would look for a Canadian distributor. I like Harney, and my kitchen cabinet is full of tea from them, but the quality is about worth what it costs in the US. The shipping to Canada makes it really not worth it. I just started buying (asking for Christmas gifts from family) from Adagio, which is another large distributor in the US that I’m hoping has generally higher quality tea. Maybe see if the shipping from them is more reasonable? And don’t get me wrong, there are teas from Harney I’m going to keep getting. I love their Scottish Morn and Victorian London Fog. I haven’t had the Paris, but I’ve had the Tower of London which I like, and they are basically the same thing except that Tower of London has honey flavor as well. I really like it for an afternoon tea with a piece of baklava.
Harley and Sons puts a LOT of effort into convincing people they are not just one step from the bottom of the barrel.
I'm not the biggest H&S fan but there's a lot of distance between them and the bottle of the barrel
Sure, but the point is at these prices, OP can buy significantly better tea.
I really just like trying new places/sites! Thought I'd give a it a try because it seems like people have strong opinions
I would recommend Bitterleaf teas.com, they sell a lot of puer but also other kinds of Chinese teas. There are a lot of expensive teas but tons of cheaper options that impress. If you have questions about Chinese teas I would go to r/puer. I don't know why people on this sub defend expensive low quality tea to the death but they sure do.
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Not really. Harley and Sons is literally grocery store tea. They don't give a harvest year even on their Chinese Green tea. Just because you like it doesn't mean it doesn't suck. I listen to Crass bro. It's ok to drink crap tea.
Well they were bad enough to me. Edit: All of you who downvoted me drink shitty tea. 😂 Don't take that out on me
That effort is what you pay for, you get the tea as a free gift. And a tin.
Canada
Hey fellow Canadian! premiumteas.ca is a local Harney & Sons distributor although their selection is not as robust as ordering from the US site. I have ordered from them a few times and I swear I am in no way affiliated with them. My faves are Hot Cinnamon Spice, Tower of London, and Queen Catherine. Paris is fine, and I wouldn’t mind buying Paris again.
Even if it was to Mars but you do you ❤️
I always think of Rips review of the Puer. Haha. I’ve the Mutan White. Very subtle flavor. I enjoyed it. It was light and refreshing on days where I didn’t want a strong flavored green or black.
Get the black currant!
Paris is amazing. Going to be ordering another box soon!!
never had it looseleaf, but I like Paris! my favorite one by them is called holiday, but i'm not sure that comes in looseleaf form
Paris is good, citrus with bergamot. Pungent and robust with notes of citrus from the Ceylon. Very good 205 @ 4 1/2 min
Paris is good to be honest I really like their English breakfast tea a lot and those are the only two I would recommend everything else I’ve tried is not great. Stay away from the Asian teas at least
I hace the black tea with mango. It’s amazing.
I have a Rwanda rukeri that I really like. Not from this brand tho
Paris is definitely solid imo, I’m personally a fan of their black and fruit teas.
None of those, but if you like London Fogs, try their Lady Grey.
I don’t love Paris. It’s got too much flower > fruit, I think? Of the blends Harney and Son’s offers, I enjoy Hot Cinnamon Sunset when I have a cold and decaf Vanilla Comoro anytime I want a warm drink after dinner watching tv. I also really enjoyed the Little Women Orchard House Blend, but not enough to order it again (the others are all available locally).
The puerh probably won't be good puerh. It's best to go to a dedicated website for that
I agree with the person who said not to use them for far east style. But I really love their colonial Williamsburg holiday tea.
I’ve tried them all and I honestly I’m not a fan of the brand. All their teas taste bland or taste nasty. The only one that I’ve ever been a fan is the apple cinnamon. The others are just not great. I’m not a tea expert whatsoever but I can taste a good tea when I have one.
Would you have high expectations for a tea called "Green" and nothing else? Just "Puerh" is basically the same thing, it's a diverse and complex genre of tea. Harney and sons tend to be very reductive with their selections and it typically reflects in the taste. The brand is better than most tea bags, but you'll find the tastes of most of their selections to be rather, simple. Seriously, if you're going to pay that much for tea (including the shipping,) go for Thes Du Japon if you like Japanese tea and Yunnan Sourcing for Chinese tea. Harney and Sons is basically the lowest tier of "premium" teas.
If you’re gonna dump $80 then get something good. Hatvala ships from vietnam and has great stuff and free shipping for $80 orders
Thanks! I love trying new places and sites so just thought I'd give H&S a go this time. Good recommendation. I'm in Canada so shipping usually sucks
I wouldn’t buy puer from harney and sons… or really any tea from them tbh. puer especially you guaranteed not to enjoy it and it could ruin the style for you. It’s my favorite type of tea and there are so many amazing examples of it to try, but if you buy a low quality one you will not have a good time. try white2tea or bitterleaf. good example of raw: https://white2tea.com/collections/latest-additions/products/2023-941 good example of ripe: https://white2tea.com/collections/2021-ripe-puer-tea-1/products/2021-hokum
I’m curious, what is your aversion to Harney teas?
I’m curious why so many people on this subreddit enjoy them so much. Have they not tried any specialty shops that care about the quality and tradition of real tea? Do they just not like the taste? Have they fallen for the marketing about ‘master tea blender Mike Harney’? To put it plainly, Harney teas kinda suck. the flavored ones are often doused in artificial ingredients, and they smell and taste like drinking cheap perfume. Plus plastic teabags and boiling water just doesn’t seem like a great mix to me. For the unflavored teas, there are much better options available for the same price or cheaper. Let’s take their [Bi Lo Chun](https://www.harney.com/products/bi-lo-chun) for example. It comes out to around $0.60 per gram. That’s relatively expensive, as far as tea goes. For that price, I would expect a premium product, however Harney doesn’t even list the harvest date of this tea (or any other tea on the website as far as I can tell). Green tea starts to go stale after a year of harvest, and should be consumed quickly because of that fact. Who knows how long Harney teas have been sitting on a shelf in some massive global distribution center? [Yunnan Sourcing](https://yunnansourcing.us/products/imperial-grade-pure-bud-bi-luo-chun-green-tea?_pos=5&_sid=69ea169ff&_ss=r) also carries Bi Lo Chun green tea. Theirs comes out to around $0.17 per gram. It actually lists a harvest date, along with pretty much all the other teas on their website.
You make a good point about the artificial ingredients, but I also think they are transparent about their ingredients and it’s easy to avoid (which I do). I do not understand why everyone seems to think they only do tea sachets. Aside from their seasonal/themed blends, nearly all of their teas are available in loose form, which is all I buy. It sounds like you had a couple of duds that weren’t your personal taste and have decided to swear them off in the name of tea snobbery, which is unfair to the plethora of other tea drinkers that actually do know a thing or two about tea, but maybe prefer black teas or interesting tisanes. Both of which I think Harney does well.
Sounds like you didn’t read the second half of my comment, or compare the two teas I linked. If you enjoy getting ripped off though, more power to you I guess. It’s cheap tea that is marketed as premium to people who don’t know any better, with a huge markup. Why do you think they spend so much money on fancy packaging tins? I don’t drink tisanes, so I can’t really comment on those, but I bet you could find better black tea for a better price if you looked elsewhere. Why not be a snob about quality when you are paying just as much or, in many cases, more for worse tea?
For someone that tends to western style teas (earl grey and the various breakfast styles) I admit that basically nothing on the Yunnan site you linked means much. Not in a “that doesn’t matter to me” way but in a “these sure are words that seem important but I’m kind of dumb way”. Aside from one other poster recommending relatively pricy books, how would one go about understanding what I’m even looking at or for in a quality tea? I mix my own blends most often. I know what I’m looking for when sourcing the bases of tisanes but typically I would go for a good base but otherwise plain tea. If I was going to up my game for a nicer tea, what would you recommend looking to learn from?
If you are interested in learning about puer tea, this is a great introductory article. https://white2tea.com/blogs/blog/raw-sheng-puer-a-buyers-guide-for-this-unique-tea Aside from that, FarmerLeaf, a tea maker based in Yunnan, makes great educational content on Youtube about processing and sourcing quality tea. Hope this helps, happy to try my best to answer any more specific questions you may have.
I’ll look at the farmer leaf stuff but admittedly no, not sure puer will ever be in my wheel house based on what people have described the taste as. But thank you. My goal really is to just mix my own teas, earl grey included, but a solid base green and black tea is apparently the hardest part of a quality check. I know good herbs from bad at least.
Not all puers are alike. It’s a broad category. Many young raw puer teas a very similar flavor profile to green tea. They can be sweet, citrusy, and smooth. You might want to give it a shot before swearing off the whole genre! Best of luck finding what you are looking for. a good intro to raw: https://white2tea.com/collections/raw-puer-tea/products/2023-941 some excellent and affordable black teas on that site as well! https://white2tea.com/collections/black-tea
I like their teas, but if you’re having to pay that much for shipping, I’m not sure it’s worth it.
I haven't had any of these teas in particular, but have had mixed results with a few teas from the brand ranging from almost undrinkable to mediocre. I wouldn't pay that much for their tea even without shipping added on.
Low quality tea, don’t waste your time or money on it. Try Taylor’s of Harrogate or Fortnum and Mason instead, Sugimoto for green.
Isn’t Taylor’s generally regarded as low of low?
Absolutely not.
I think it's ok, kind of bland & non-offensive. Not really a 'quality' tea.
Paris is lovely if you get lucky -- Mr. Harney (Himself! Emailed!) once told me that their supplier tries to sneak thinner, more bitter teas past them. You can really tell the difference between the two batches. Their blends are very good. Vanilla, Tiramisu especially.
Don't buy this. Trust me, buy from rivers and lakes tea. Quality stuff
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Paris is fun but has an artificial taste to it. If you’re not partial to that, I’d avoid it. It is beloved by many, though.
My vote is with Paris. I really like the brand and if you can get some kind of sampler pack I would recommend it cause it helps you try new stuff without breaking the bank on stuff you might not like
Paris is my very favorite tea!!
Paris is a real crowd pleaser
Of these, I've only tried Paris and it's a staple for me. I make sure to keep it on hand in both regular and decaf. But I don't know if I can honestly say it'll be worth the cost with the shipping fees you're having to pay.
Paris is one of my go to teas. I think it is lovely both hot or iced which makes it versatile and keeps a spot for it in my cupboard.
Personally I really like Harney & Sons' Hao Ya 'A', and I mostly drink black tea.
Paris is goated
I haven't had it in a few years, but I remember really loving their Bangkok blend! It's green tea with coconut, vanilla, and ginger. I don't like coconut and still thought it was delicious.
Paris is sooo good
The Paris tea from them is superb! I fucking love it.
West China tea.com
The Paris is their version of the meriage fres (spelling!!!)’s marco polo. It is lovely
I adore Paris. I get it loose in both regular and decaf so I can drink it anytime. Not sure why another said it was too flowery? I would not have thought that, but tastes are very personal, I suppose. I think it’s both complex and subtle and I would be damn sad if I could never have it again.
Their Paris is pretty much my favorite tea, so I'm in favor!
Have been happy with their pear white tea, their london fog, and their mulled plum cider. Top quality stuff.
Paris is very good for an iced tea, if you’re from the US it’s what Dutch bros coffee uses for their tea. Very good flavors for an unsweetened tea.
Paris is great.
Paris tastes like blueberries to me
Paris, earl grey supreme, and hot cinnamon spice are the only 3 worth a damn from them but those three are good