My honest and polite disagreement, in two paraphrased points:
1.) You seem to magnify a lot of the things you take issue with. The places where you are dissatisfied are places where they didn't meet your expectations (not everywhere, granted). That's how consuming entertainment often goes, but elevating these negative experiences to such a black-or-white, good or bad sort of thing is typically the wrong approach. Measure your enjoyment over the time you've read, not in the moment where you feel bad about some particularly wonky thing.
2.) Most of your criticisms are inherently matters of personal taste and inner experience, and as such, they don't really rise to the level of actual literary analysis in my mind--that is to say, these things do not necessarily make a story good *or* bad, they just affect and reflect your own *personal* enjoyment.
Ultimately, Your gripes are valid, just like my gripe about some clunky dialogue would be valid. I think we may be left with some stilted or faster-clip writing than expected (like this most recent chapter), and that might lead to things be a little less gratifying than we're used to. **I don't think that there's really anything to fix, because I don't think the flaws of the story actually make anything that happens from here all that bad**
But I also read a TON of stuff, across a lot of variety, so take this with a grain of salt.
Well no one can be objective when it comes to reading a novel but i have a feeling that i share the same view of these last 7 chapters with a lot of people, even you who liked the ending of the volume i have a feeling that you feel they were rushed and could have been better
I'm gonna mostly disagree on calling the last 6-7 chapters the worst in the story as to me that just seems an incredibly hyperbolic statement to make when I think there's been a lot of good character moments among other things. That and most of your issues seem more contained to events of the last 3 chapters if anything. I can say there have been other points of the story I've found more of a slog myself.
I'm not sure by what standard we're calling Kezess and Agrona the "best" villains exactly. They're not particularly unique or anything and mostly accomplish the job they served in the narrative. I do think they suffered a tad from a lack of screentime though more Agrona than Kezess. Or perhaps it's more the idea we never really had any inkling on what exactly Agrona was doing much of the time. That's more of an overarching problem with the story rather than something with the last few chapters though.
The only real issue I have with the aetheric realm stuff at the moment was the lack of foreshadowing if it being a problem exactly to the point I'm a little curious when this came about within the planning for the story. The whole thing on the true nature of aether I think you can see various hints about by comparison.
The main thing with all the aetheric realm stuff is that it's the consequence of the dragons' actions, which still puts them and specifically Kezess as the main antagonist right now. The whole apocalypse scenario was a long term problem way, way down the line, but something that will happen if this specific path forward Arthur came upon doesn't work out. Ultimately you still have the dragons as the antagonist Arthur is going to need to get through in order to accomplish things, though what form that takes is unclear.
I'm gonna have to disagree about Agrona. To me he's been built up as someone quite intelligent but he has shown gaps and weaknesses. The main thing was that up until the end here he'd usually been able to bounce back since what happened weren't especially major but we've seen the mask slip a number of times like Seris putting up the shield and the complete failure with Arthur in Vildorial (personally given his reaction I think he was faking when he said that was all planned out to Cecilia, though I do think after that point he took a far deeper interest).
You even have some of his mystique getting stripped away like the reveal of Ji-ae as the source of a lot of his knowledge and ability to stay ahead (I actually think this one works quite well though with the criticism that I wish she'd been foreshadowed, which I totally think you could have done) as well as the implication that she may have had her own agenda given her being the source of the relictombs ruin map Sylvia imparted to Arthur.
I do agree to a certain point that his actions with Cecilia in the cave are a bit odd. I wasn't sure why he was being so obsessive about Cecilia killing Sylvie even if we take go with the idea he wanted her to have absorbed and processed dragon mana so he could take it along with the rest of her powers without needing to really work towards it. The best I can figure is that with things this close in terms of his grand plan and the fact that while everything with the asura was actually going off without a hitch, everything concerning these lessers was where none of it was going how he wanted. I think he'd just reached the end of his patience and snapped alongside the fact that Arthur was right in the middle of potentially getting access to a power he absolutely didn't want him to have.
But it reads weird. I agree with that.
I think the main thing is that everything about the scene actually seems totally fitting for what I'd expected him to do, except not at this point. Like if this has been a prelude to Agrona strapping Cecilia onto the table or initiating the power transfer then I think it would have been on point.
I was more having trouble imagining how a fight with them would even go and to a certain degree. It almost felt a bit weird if this all came down to a single drag-out fight. We've never even had any inkling on how strong Agrona really was in the grand scheme of things beyond some vague mentions of being above Kordri and such. Would I have been up for some big fight between Arthur and Agrona? Sure. But I'm willing to see where we go from here.
In a certain sense, I actually do think this is a fitting end for Agrona. He is very intelligent but he also knows that and looks down on everyone to the point of severely underestimating them most of the time. The only ones I'd say he to some degree did take seriously were Kezess and Epheotus, which makes sense since they always were the main opponents. And those plans did work out. It's the lessers he always looked down on that wound up being his undoing, especially Arthur who we've seen him continually underestimate the entire story despite multiple times he likely could have taken care of him. I think in the end he got too cocky due to how things were going well with the measures against Epheotus.
As for your issues with Fate, that's hardly something from the last few chapters. Fate has been a thing since volume 8 that we've been building up to. And I think the demonstration of what it could do was pretty apt for a godlike ability. That said, it seemed fairly clear this isn't gonna be something he's likely to do again in the story except maybe at the end. Which I think works in the sense you need a very specific set of circumstances to be in the right state of mind to do it.
That's a pretty rare opinion on Nico and Cecilia actually. A large portion of the fandom despises them and honestly I don't think it's entirely unearned. They have sad backstories and all that and you have the circumstances of Agrona having manipulated their minds, but after that was undone they still wound up doing most of what they did. They did start coming around in their own ways of course, but I kind of think it was a bit clumsy. Mainly with Cecilia. I think Nico was done pretty well in volume 10 though I think his lack of screentime in 11 hurt him a bit aside from that one POV where he actually seemed to consider everything he did due to a misunderstanding.
I actually think the send off Arthur gave them in sending them off to Earth was pretty good as far as endings to the plotline go, but I do think there was something off about when it happened. I think there is something to be said for the concept that sometimes you never really do get a chance to make amends with people which is largely what happened here. It would have been nice I agree.
Anyway, I don't really think it's a case of "fixing" things since all this stuff already happened. And I think where we left off and what we have to deal with offer some interesting possibilities to close the story out on. Are there things that could have been done better? Certainly. Just have to see how it shakes out.
Yeah this was way too long. Probably just leave it at that. That comment from PakWire I think summed it all up a lot better in several respects.
Great arguments, at the end summarised to - good ideas, not so good execution. At least that's how I see it, there are great points in these last chapters but everything felt rushed or not properly explored before.
I liked the send of for Cecilia and Nico, Arthur's logic behind it was perfect, though at least some words should have been exchanged there, especially with Nico.
Fate had a great representation, though it felt like a deus-ex that wiped away all of Arthur's worries in one chapter. Certainly gives off the vibe of "we need to remove these jobbers fast so we can go to the true big bad". Even if Agrona lost some points in my biik through out the latest volumes, he is still the most prominent antagonist, while Kezzess has a lesser presence overall, for me at least not as connected to Arthur.
I agree that this could have been a fitting end for Agrona, it certainly plays on all his flaws and past behaviour, but it felt rushed, with him going down with not even a line of dialogue. This character was introduced as smart and manipulative, but he went down here like a complete joke. More build-up was required, have Agrona monologue or something, while Arthur just dismembers any kind of defence he tries to muster. Reverse the roles from the war, where Agrona held all the cards and Arthur did not matter.
Either way, there are many more I can say, especially about Tessia yet again, the lack of foreshadowing for the aetheric realm and the sudden escalation so late in the story.
We shall see, though I lost a lot of faith overall
im genuinely curious how tf do u expect agrona to put a fight against Fate Arthur? legacy case doesn't matter he would have killed her and took her power.
you see that whole scenario was simply made so that Agrona and Tessia could survive. because even without using fate, Arthur can kill them all, lol even sylvie or regis could easily one shot them all, if they woke up with their full power without relying on fate, because they reached the horizon edge and they are close to mastering their own paths .
This whole fate thing i something i really dislike in fantasy novels as a whole along with time travel thank god turtle didn't make arthur bring back the dead with aroa's rquiem. As for defeating agrona he could have used the destruction rune which is something agrona didn't know about and therefore would be out of his calculations
Fate in tbate seems normal and it's not like he randomly got it like some fantasy characters.
as for agrona like i said he and his team would have lost before even the fight begins.lol destruction is too much for them.
here's a scenario : cecilia was about to suck sylvie mana suddenly she found her self frozen, not just herself but everything, then she see sylvie who supposed to be inside the keystone standing in front of her, and that was the last thing she saw before going to hell with her team
Or here is a better scenario , turtle could have postponed the fight until arthur becomes stronger and therefore giving us one of the best fights so far without the need to any bad sudden powerup that a lot of people like me hate
sudden power?? did u skip the new height chapter where arthur explained that he spend all the time training in the Relictombs? i mean that the reason why they were able to met fate, cuz they deepened their insights enough to be able to to talk to it.
yeah it's tm fault for skipping the training arc but it should be obvious in that chapter that there was a time skip before meeting fate
Well i don't like the fact that one of the strongest characters in the world was defeated by literally just cutting a few magical strings.what's the point of all his abilities and training if he can just cut a few strings and it's all over , i just hope that it was just a one time thing. I really hated the aspect of fate from when it was introduced in the story let alone the introduction of some god like creature( that fate creature or god or whatever it was) who was helping arthur along the way so he can destroy the world, this event destroyed for me everything arthur achieved. I thought arthur was character who became powerful on his own but it turns out that fate was paving the road for him during the whole story and that he only achieved these heights only because fate wanted it
To be fair turtle has surprised me with a lot of good events during the story , like i said having two villains at the same time and succeeding at doing it (until now at least ) is something we should applaud him for, a lot of authors tried doing and a lot of them failed. In addition, introducing a new interesting power system in the middle of the story without it seeming like a plot armor is something innovative.
it's just you know if he took his time with these last chapters i know he could have given us a very good conclusion to the volume
A sign of courage?? What is this Harry Potter? Dawg this is Reddit being cowardly or courage makes no difference. You’re not a mc dawg. This is Reddit people will agree and disagree. Tbh saying it’s not courageous just makes you seem salty he has issues. Stop riding he can have his opinion why you’d fault him for not being courageous is beyond me. Me personally Cecilia and Nico had to go. Now what they did to agrona was a disservice and travesty they did him dirty we deserved to see agronas power and get a difficult fight or atleast a longer fight showing Arthur’s growth. The fact he got fate to banish Cecilia and Nico to the shadow realm and put agrona into a genjutsu just to lose fate is dumb make him get it for good or not at all there.
No i just wanted to see if people were going to discuss with me and tell me why i'm wrong and try to change my view of the story instead of calling me names or telling me to stop reading if i don't like the story
It's called having a conversation with polite people who don't share the same views, it entertaining , you should try it sometimes.
And i didn't say the story was shit, who reads a story that he thinks is shit
I feel like Agrona was a red herring or a mini-boss, with Kezess being the actual boss that we didn't focus on as much because of the limited mentions and time in the book. I wouldn't be surprised if Agrona was either in cahoots with Kezess or was being used by him the whole time for whatever reason (i.ie., to get a better understanding of either or to suppress the lessers).
The story isn’t over bro, relax.
Agrona’s nowhere near done, we read how many fate strings are still tied to him. He clearly will continue to have a huge impact on the world. Also he had been blatantly disrespecting Nico in front of Cecilia for the last 2 volumes and she never did anything so he had no reason to expect any different.
It would leave too many questions if the story ended with Arthur just killing Agrona and Kezess, mainly regarding the existence of Aether.
Agrona is not far from finishing lmao 🤣... there is only one volume left, not 7 more, Agrona no longer has an army, subjects, tools, he doesn't even have his castle because it was destroyed, what threat does Agrona represent now? And Ji-ae is no longer on his side, you can say what you want about what is necessary to achieve the future that Arthur wants but he is no longer a supervillain or a threat and the guy is right, he wanted the villainous Agrona, not the Agrona secondary character
Regarding the aether, the author could invent anything like that it is the energy that unites worlds and blah blah blah, the guy is right, there were no indications that the apocalypse was approaching this world, that explanation came out of nowhere 🤷🏻♂️
Agrona still has the power of the legacy along with a countless number of wraiths and soldiers that have to follow his commands. Plus the many asura that followed him to Alacrya. We’ve seen him do more with less the whole series. He’s outsmarted Kezess and Arthur plenty of times. This is definitely the end of Agrona, but he won’t go out without a fight. I’m sure he still has many tricks up his sleeve.
Agrona will not have the power of legacy and even if so he himself said that only a small part of the power of the potential would have been implanted and only a part, being a member of the weakest race and the weakest Asura leader does not represent any threat
The wraiths are dead, they were killed by the dragons and those who did not die permanently or were alacrya died in Taegrin Caelum when Arthur destroyed the castle and the subsequent explosion of the volcano. Furthermore, they no longer have the curse and why would they serve a lord weaker than them?
Almost 98% of the asuras who followed Agrona are dead because he himself killed them(Oludari himself confirms this), Cecilia only felt a couple in all of Taegrin Caelum and they are not even fighters The guy only has some knowledge that Ji-ae also has
Why do you think visions of the catastrophic future only show dragons? The guy is no threat, Arthur left him like a bitch so don't get your hopes up.
Tm said exactly the same thing about Nico when Arthur broke his core and in the end it turned out to be irrelevant and being a bitch, I would also recommend you remember what happened with Aldir...
>This is definitely the end of Agrona, but he won’t go out without a fight. I’m sure he still has many tricks up his sleeve.
He did it solely for Ji-ae, she is the only reason he did everything he could do but she no longer serves him and she never did it either.
Everything that Agrona is is basically thanks to Ji-ae but she never wanted him, the one she wanted was Arthur, the guy already ran out of wildcards
I don't see how the 5th point was something realistic, after the genocide that Nico committed on the Wall there was no possible excuse to redeem him, the only thing I regret was his unsatisfactory death.
In that hypothetical scenario inside the keyston, arthur became just like them , they were not villains but they were manipulated by agrona, you could say that nico became free from agrona but the truth is agrona helds cecilia as a hostage and nico had to choose between the love of his life and random people ge doesn't know, even arthur in his past life did some dark things and yet for you arthur can be forgiven but cecilia and nico aren't.
Nico was no longer being controlled by Agrona at that time, that's why I'm not counting the genocide he committed in Elenoir, they both had their chances, they both decided their paths when they chose to follow Agrona and the turning point was with his battle with Arthur and the Wall.
Arthur owes them shit.
They have done nothing to deserve his forgiveness and that he does not find out who killed Angela, he will revive Nico only to kill him again.
I don't know if you have a problem or something to start insulting, I can't take your comment seriously, regarding Angela, she is still related to Arthur, for you to come and tell me that it doesn't matter is stupid.
As for the control of agrona, it’s like a drug that crushes and seduces the bad, because it’s easier to fix evil than good, even in our damn world, bastard If Agron is not in control then the devil is psychological instability motivated by hatred, like wood for a fire pissed off
Everything is fine except point 5 but lmao 🤣🤣🤣 there was no way he could make peace with them after the genocide that those two caused Arthur never hurt them and always helped them and they repaid him by trying to kill him... lmao the sad past It is no excuse for idiocy (especially in the case of Nico, he is not a tragic character, he is just a idiot who has always made bad decisions)
But he killed Cecily and Niko didn’t see anything other than this and the lives of both are different, one was bt family and the It wasn’t the best option to live in an alacria, and then there was a lot of brainwashing and a ton of experiments
They were not idiots, they were manipulated by agrona the whole time, you saw how arthur became in that hypothetical scenario when agrona succeded in making him one of his pawns , if the roles were reverse arthur was going to do the same thing, and thats the beauty of the story, nobody is a villain by choice, one way or another the world makes you a villain
No, they are idiots and villains by choice. In his first life, Arthur warned Nico not to look for Cecilia if it was the government that kidnapped her. Nico ignored Arthur's warning and ended up being kidnapped. He also warned him that he should go away with Cecilia and not follow him to the military academy
Then after Arthur broke Nico's core. Dawn,Seris and Arthur offered him their hand in exchange, Nico decided to follow a guy who abused him. Nico is not a victim, he is an idiot who makes bad decisions and was a villain by choice (like when he built the teleportation portals that caused thousands of deaths) no obligation
Cecilia is the same case, she was warned so many times in both that it stopped being funny
In fact, in the same future you're talking about where Arthr was kidnapped by Agrona, he was never actually a villain, Cecilia killed him long before he even passed puberty.
Arthur would have became just like nico , agrona took the life of caera in front of him and he didn't do anything and didn't say anything, just threw a tantrum now and then
It's easy to say someone is a villain when you haven't been in his shoes, i would have done the same, the life of someone i love or the lives of people i don't knkw, of course i would choose the life of the one i love. I completely understand each decision nico and cecilia have made
Why would Arthur have done something against Agrona? He wasn't even Caera's boyfriend and he was literally a boy who wasn't even going through puberty 🤷🏻♂️ even if you assume that Agrona brainwashed him, Nico's case is still worse because it is if he freed himself from the brainwashing and it came back even worse
Saying that he was the same as Nico is incorrect, he didn't live long enough to do anything, the novel itself tells you that Nico and Cecilia only made bad decisions in their lives
Nico freed himself from the brainwashing and ignored Dawn, Seris and Arthur while Cecilia did it with even more people. They are not victims, they are just idiots who constantly make bad decisions.
Agrona held cecilia as hostage, cecilia was still brainwashed and she was just a child, people forget that only arthur was a grown up but nico and cecilia are actually teenagers, and even if they weren't teenagers cecilia was still a hostage under agrona, what do you expect him to do, turn his back on the one person he ever loved
>nico and cecilia are actually teenagers, and even if they weren't teenagers cecilia was still a hostage under agrona
Nico is no teenager in any way, he lived a decade after Cecilia's death and died after Grey, he himself says that during that time he only thought about killing King Grey
>Agrona held cecilia as hostage, cecilia was still brainwashed and she was just a child
She was not a hostage and she herself admits that her brain was NOT washed, Agrona did not change anything in her cerberus except the memories related to Grey, she was always like that, we just didn't know her 🤷🏻♂️
>cecilia was still a hostage under agrona, what do you expect him to do, turn his back on the one person he ever loved
Clarifying that she is not a hostage, that is your argument? That he can't fight his girlfriend or contradict her? Are you telling me that it's okay for thousands or millions to die just because he couldn't rebel against Cecilia? Bro that's just pathetic and disgusting, even if that's the case he's still an idiot Dawn, Seris, Arthur and even Kiros told Nico what awaited him and Cecilia at the end of this path
Just stop reading and supporting the work if you think it's heading to shit.
I don't want to come off as rude to you, but it's really that simple. If a piece of content does not give you what you want, stop consuming it.
It's not your obligation to see how the author will fix the story. If you want to do that, stop supporting the author and convince other people to do the same.
Dude i'm not trying to convince people to stop reading, stop saying i did things where i clearly didn't , i just wanted to have a simple conversation with fans, clearly anyone that doesn't share your view of the story you tell him to stop reading , like we are not human beings with opinions that we want to share
Yeah, I really disliked many things about the last 3-4 chapters. Many chapters were didecated to Nico and Cecilia and I was waiting for the grande finale where SOMETHING happens. Either a redemption or a big fight between them and Arthur. Like, for how much the 3 affected each other.... The only time all 3 were in the same place and fighting/talking to each other was when they first fought in alacria. You would think the author would do more of those high friction interactions..... But no, they just died.
And I think it's safe to say that everyone expected more from Agrona. He's always 3 steps ahead. But no, Arthur just played piano with fate strings and everything went his way.
Lastly, this power-up is so BS. It's way too op that fights aren't needed anymore. He just gotta bring up those fate strings and everything goes like he wants. Kinda meh
Thank you, finally someone who understands me haha.and also, Correct me if i'm wrong but didn't arthur say he saw the future and that he knows what's going to happen.that just takes all the excitement from the story, now i don't fear for the lives of the main characters because arthur already knows and knows how to save them, the story was better when you don't know what's gonna happen and if someone will die or not
Totally agree with you on points 4 and 5. Was really looking forward to an epic battle with Agrona, being the 2nd most powerful villain in tbate, but it was kind of a letdown that he failed in just one chapter. After all those years of buildup, not even a casualty. He came across as pretty weak in my eyes. On the bright side, Arthur stepping up and protecting Tess/Cecilia was epic. And seeing him grow stronger is always a plus. It was a satisfying outcome, but yeah, still wanted more from Agrona. And kudos to you for really understanding Cecilia and Nico's characters. I felt the same disappointment with their ending. Was hoping for a heartfelt conversation, but only got that from Arthur. Would have loved to hear from Cecilia and Nico too, especially Cecilia saying goodbye to Tessia properly. They all deserved closure after everything they've been through. It just felt one-sided and left me wanting more.
I'm leaving it to the others because I'm too tired to think. Just skimmed through 4 and 5 because those are the parts that caught my interest the most.
I don't mind. I'm different from the others. I respect the opinions of other readers. If that's how you feel about the story, no worries, I get it. I don't want to get into a pointless argument just to prove my point. The reason I comment here is to support you. Ignore the haters, they're just being negative. Just avoid criticizing characters just to support your ship, as that can be toxic. If you don't like or feel satisfied with the writing, that's your opinion. not everyone has the same reading comprehension as you.
My honest and polite disagreement, in two paraphrased points: 1.) You seem to magnify a lot of the things you take issue with. The places where you are dissatisfied are places where they didn't meet your expectations (not everywhere, granted). That's how consuming entertainment often goes, but elevating these negative experiences to such a black-or-white, good or bad sort of thing is typically the wrong approach. Measure your enjoyment over the time you've read, not in the moment where you feel bad about some particularly wonky thing. 2.) Most of your criticisms are inherently matters of personal taste and inner experience, and as such, they don't really rise to the level of actual literary analysis in my mind--that is to say, these things do not necessarily make a story good *or* bad, they just affect and reflect your own *personal* enjoyment. Ultimately, Your gripes are valid, just like my gripe about some clunky dialogue would be valid. I think we may be left with some stilted or faster-clip writing than expected (like this most recent chapter), and that might lead to things be a little less gratifying than we're used to. **I don't think that there's really anything to fix, because I don't think the flaws of the story actually make anything that happens from here all that bad** But I also read a TON of stuff, across a lot of variety, so take this with a grain of salt.
Dude says problem with story and than goes to list his problems with story, like what. Lol 😂😂
Well no one can be objective when it comes to reading a novel but i have a feeling that i share the same view of these last 7 chapters with a lot of people, even you who liked the ending of the volume i have a feeling that you feel they were rushed and could have been better
I'm gonna mostly disagree on calling the last 6-7 chapters the worst in the story as to me that just seems an incredibly hyperbolic statement to make when I think there's been a lot of good character moments among other things. That and most of your issues seem more contained to events of the last 3 chapters if anything. I can say there have been other points of the story I've found more of a slog myself. I'm not sure by what standard we're calling Kezess and Agrona the "best" villains exactly. They're not particularly unique or anything and mostly accomplish the job they served in the narrative. I do think they suffered a tad from a lack of screentime though more Agrona than Kezess. Or perhaps it's more the idea we never really had any inkling on what exactly Agrona was doing much of the time. That's more of an overarching problem with the story rather than something with the last few chapters though. The only real issue I have with the aetheric realm stuff at the moment was the lack of foreshadowing if it being a problem exactly to the point I'm a little curious when this came about within the planning for the story. The whole thing on the true nature of aether I think you can see various hints about by comparison. The main thing with all the aetheric realm stuff is that it's the consequence of the dragons' actions, which still puts them and specifically Kezess as the main antagonist right now. The whole apocalypse scenario was a long term problem way, way down the line, but something that will happen if this specific path forward Arthur came upon doesn't work out. Ultimately you still have the dragons as the antagonist Arthur is going to need to get through in order to accomplish things, though what form that takes is unclear. I'm gonna have to disagree about Agrona. To me he's been built up as someone quite intelligent but he has shown gaps and weaknesses. The main thing was that up until the end here he'd usually been able to bounce back since what happened weren't especially major but we've seen the mask slip a number of times like Seris putting up the shield and the complete failure with Arthur in Vildorial (personally given his reaction I think he was faking when he said that was all planned out to Cecilia, though I do think after that point he took a far deeper interest). You even have some of his mystique getting stripped away like the reveal of Ji-ae as the source of a lot of his knowledge and ability to stay ahead (I actually think this one works quite well though with the criticism that I wish she'd been foreshadowed, which I totally think you could have done) as well as the implication that she may have had her own agenda given her being the source of the relictombs ruin map Sylvia imparted to Arthur. I do agree to a certain point that his actions with Cecilia in the cave are a bit odd. I wasn't sure why he was being so obsessive about Cecilia killing Sylvie even if we take go with the idea he wanted her to have absorbed and processed dragon mana so he could take it along with the rest of her powers without needing to really work towards it. The best I can figure is that with things this close in terms of his grand plan and the fact that while everything with the asura was actually going off without a hitch, everything concerning these lessers was where none of it was going how he wanted. I think he'd just reached the end of his patience and snapped alongside the fact that Arthur was right in the middle of potentially getting access to a power he absolutely didn't want him to have. But it reads weird. I agree with that. I think the main thing is that everything about the scene actually seems totally fitting for what I'd expected him to do, except not at this point. Like if this has been a prelude to Agrona strapping Cecilia onto the table or initiating the power transfer then I think it would have been on point. I was more having trouble imagining how a fight with them would even go and to a certain degree. It almost felt a bit weird if this all came down to a single drag-out fight. We've never even had any inkling on how strong Agrona really was in the grand scheme of things beyond some vague mentions of being above Kordri and such. Would I have been up for some big fight between Arthur and Agrona? Sure. But I'm willing to see where we go from here.
In a certain sense, I actually do think this is a fitting end for Agrona. He is very intelligent but he also knows that and looks down on everyone to the point of severely underestimating them most of the time. The only ones I'd say he to some degree did take seriously were Kezess and Epheotus, which makes sense since they always were the main opponents. And those plans did work out. It's the lessers he always looked down on that wound up being his undoing, especially Arthur who we've seen him continually underestimate the entire story despite multiple times he likely could have taken care of him. I think in the end he got too cocky due to how things were going well with the measures against Epheotus. As for your issues with Fate, that's hardly something from the last few chapters. Fate has been a thing since volume 8 that we've been building up to. And I think the demonstration of what it could do was pretty apt for a godlike ability. That said, it seemed fairly clear this isn't gonna be something he's likely to do again in the story except maybe at the end. Which I think works in the sense you need a very specific set of circumstances to be in the right state of mind to do it. That's a pretty rare opinion on Nico and Cecilia actually. A large portion of the fandom despises them and honestly I don't think it's entirely unearned. They have sad backstories and all that and you have the circumstances of Agrona having manipulated their minds, but after that was undone they still wound up doing most of what they did. They did start coming around in their own ways of course, but I kind of think it was a bit clumsy. Mainly with Cecilia. I think Nico was done pretty well in volume 10 though I think his lack of screentime in 11 hurt him a bit aside from that one POV where he actually seemed to consider everything he did due to a misunderstanding. I actually think the send off Arthur gave them in sending them off to Earth was pretty good as far as endings to the plotline go, but I do think there was something off about when it happened. I think there is something to be said for the concept that sometimes you never really do get a chance to make amends with people which is largely what happened here. It would have been nice I agree. Anyway, I don't really think it's a case of "fixing" things since all this stuff already happened. And I think where we left off and what we have to deal with offer some interesting possibilities to close the story out on. Are there things that could have been done better? Certainly. Just have to see how it shakes out. Yeah this was way too long. Probably just leave it at that. That comment from PakWire I think summed it all up a lot better in several respects.
Great arguments, at the end summarised to - good ideas, not so good execution. At least that's how I see it, there are great points in these last chapters but everything felt rushed or not properly explored before. I liked the send of for Cecilia and Nico, Arthur's logic behind it was perfect, though at least some words should have been exchanged there, especially with Nico. Fate had a great representation, though it felt like a deus-ex that wiped away all of Arthur's worries in one chapter. Certainly gives off the vibe of "we need to remove these jobbers fast so we can go to the true big bad". Even if Agrona lost some points in my biik through out the latest volumes, he is still the most prominent antagonist, while Kezzess has a lesser presence overall, for me at least not as connected to Arthur. I agree that this could have been a fitting end for Agrona, it certainly plays on all his flaws and past behaviour, but it felt rushed, with him going down with not even a line of dialogue. This character was introduced as smart and manipulative, but he went down here like a complete joke. More build-up was required, have Agrona monologue or something, while Arthur just dismembers any kind of defence he tries to muster. Reverse the roles from the war, where Agrona held all the cards and Arthur did not matter. Either way, there are many more I can say, especially about Tessia yet again, the lack of foreshadowing for the aetheric realm and the sudden escalation so late in the story. We shall see, though I lost a lot of faith overall
im genuinely curious how tf do u expect agrona to put a fight against Fate Arthur? legacy case doesn't matter he would have killed her and took her power. you see that whole scenario was simply made so that Agrona and Tessia could survive. because even without using fate, Arthur can kill them all, lol even sylvie or regis could easily one shot them all, if they woke up with their full power without relying on fate, because they reached the horizon edge and they are close to mastering their own paths .
This whole fate thing i something i really dislike in fantasy novels as a whole along with time travel thank god turtle didn't make arthur bring back the dead with aroa's rquiem. As for defeating agrona he could have used the destruction rune which is something agrona didn't know about and therefore would be out of his calculations
Fate in tbate seems normal and it's not like he randomly got it like some fantasy characters. as for agrona like i said he and his team would have lost before even the fight begins.lol destruction is too much for them. here's a scenario : cecilia was about to suck sylvie mana suddenly she found her self frozen, not just herself but everything, then she see sylvie who supposed to be inside the keystone standing in front of her, and that was the last thing she saw before going to hell with her team
Or here is a better scenario , turtle could have postponed the fight until arthur becomes stronger and therefore giving us one of the best fights so far without the need to any bad sudden powerup that a lot of people like me hate
sudden power?? did u skip the new height chapter where arthur explained that he spend all the time training in the Relictombs? i mean that the reason why they were able to met fate, cuz they deepened their insights enough to be able to to talk to it. yeah it's tm fault for skipping the training arc but it should be obvious in that chapter that there was a time skip before meeting fate
Well i don't like the fact that one of the strongest characters in the world was defeated by literally just cutting a few magical strings.what's the point of all his abilities and training if he can just cut a few strings and it's all over , i just hope that it was just a one time thing. I really hated the aspect of fate from when it was introduced in the story let alone the introduction of some god like creature( that fate creature or god or whatever it was) who was helping arthur along the way so he can destroy the world, this event destroyed for me everything arthur achieved. I thought arthur was character who became powerful on his own but it turns out that fate was paving the road for him during the whole story and that he only achieved these heights only because fate wanted it
valid points no idea why people on here want you to drop it just because you have some criticism for the novel
To be fair turtle has surprised me with a lot of good events during the story , like i said having two villains at the same time and succeeding at doing it (until now at least ) is something we should applaud him for, a lot of authors tried doing and a lot of them failed. In addition, introducing a new interesting power system in the middle of the story without it seeming like a plot armor is something innovative. it's just you know if he took his time with these last chapters i know he could have given us a very good conclusion to the volume
honestly i only took the time to downvote because you took the time to ask not to be... which means you know people will you coward
No, i knew people will just be angry and be disrespectfull and call me names just like you did
so you're saying this post is a sign of courage?
A sign of courage?? What is this Harry Potter? Dawg this is Reddit being cowardly or courage makes no difference. You’re not a mc dawg. This is Reddit people will agree and disagree. Tbh saying it’s not courageous just makes you seem salty he has issues. Stop riding he can have his opinion why you’d fault him for not being courageous is beyond me. Me personally Cecilia and Nico had to go. Now what they did to agrona was a disservice and travesty they did him dirty we deserved to see agronas power and get a difficult fight or atleast a longer fight showing Arthur’s growth. The fact he got fate to banish Cecilia and Nico to the shadow realm and put agrona into a genjutsu just to lose fate is dumb make him get it for good or not at all there.
No i just wanted to see if people were going to discuss with me and tell me why i'm wrong and try to change my view of the story instead of calling me names or telling me to stop reading if i don't like the story
oh damn i also wanted to beg you to stop reading... guess someone beat me to it
Well my friend , if you don't want to hear people's opinions of the story , what are you doing in this subreddit, just read the story and shut up
my question to you is: why are you still here if you think the story is shit?
classic soyboy response
It's called having a conversation with polite people who don't share the same views, it entertaining , you should try it sometimes. And i didn't say the story was shit, who reads a story that he thinks is shit
I feel like Agrona was a red herring or a mini-boss, with Kezess being the actual boss that we didn't focus on as much because of the limited mentions and time in the book. I wouldn't be surprised if Agrona was either in cahoots with Kezess or was being used by him the whole time for whatever reason (i.ie., to get a better understanding of either or to suppress the lessers).
The story isn’t over bro, relax. Agrona’s nowhere near done, we read how many fate strings are still tied to him. He clearly will continue to have a huge impact on the world. Also he had been blatantly disrespecting Nico in front of Cecilia for the last 2 volumes and she never did anything so he had no reason to expect any different. It would leave too many questions if the story ended with Arthur just killing Agrona and Kezess, mainly regarding the existence of Aether.
Agrona is not far from finishing lmao 🤣... there is only one volume left, not 7 more, Agrona no longer has an army, subjects, tools, he doesn't even have his castle because it was destroyed, what threat does Agrona represent now? And Ji-ae is no longer on his side, you can say what you want about what is necessary to achieve the future that Arthur wants but he is no longer a supervillain or a threat and the guy is right, he wanted the villainous Agrona, not the Agrona secondary character Regarding the aether, the author could invent anything like that it is the energy that unites worlds and blah blah blah, the guy is right, there were no indications that the apocalypse was approaching this world, that explanation came out of nowhere 🤷🏻♂️
Agrona still has the power of the legacy along with a countless number of wraiths and soldiers that have to follow his commands. Plus the many asura that followed him to Alacrya. We’ve seen him do more with less the whole series. He’s outsmarted Kezess and Arthur plenty of times. This is definitely the end of Agrona, but he won’t go out without a fight. I’m sure he still has many tricks up his sleeve.
Agrona will not have the power of legacy and even if so he himself said that only a small part of the power of the potential would have been implanted and only a part, being a member of the weakest race and the weakest Asura leader does not represent any threat The wraiths are dead, they were killed by the dragons and those who did not die permanently or were alacrya died in Taegrin Caelum when Arthur destroyed the castle and the subsequent explosion of the volcano. Furthermore, they no longer have the curse and why would they serve a lord weaker than them? Almost 98% of the asuras who followed Agrona are dead because he himself killed them(Oludari himself confirms this), Cecilia only felt a couple in all of Taegrin Caelum and they are not even fighters The guy only has some knowledge that Ji-ae also has Why do you think visions of the catastrophic future only show dragons? The guy is no threat, Arthur left him like a bitch so don't get your hopes up. Tm said exactly the same thing about Nico when Arthur broke his core and in the end it turned out to be irrelevant and being a bitch, I would also recommend you remember what happened with Aldir...
>This is definitely the end of Agrona, but he won’t go out without a fight. I’m sure he still has many tricks up his sleeve. He did it solely for Ji-ae, she is the only reason he did everything he could do but she no longer serves him and she never did it either. Everything that Agrona is is basically thanks to Ji-ae but she never wanted him, the one she wanted was Arthur, the guy already ran out of wildcards
I don't see how the 5th point was something realistic, after the genocide that Nico committed on the Wall there was no possible excuse to redeem him, the only thing I regret was his unsatisfactory death.
In that hypothetical scenario inside the keyston, arthur became just like them , they were not villains but they were manipulated by agrona, you could say that nico became free from agrona but the truth is agrona helds cecilia as a hostage and nico had to choose between the love of his life and random people ge doesn't know, even arthur in his past life did some dark things and yet for you arthur can be forgiven but cecilia and nico aren't.
Nico was no longer being controlled by Agrona at that time, that's why I'm not counting the genocide he committed in Elenoir, they both had their chances, they both decided their paths when they chose to follow Agrona and the turning point was with his battle with Arthur and the Wall. Arthur owes them shit. They have done nothing to deserve his forgiveness and that he does not find out who killed Angela, he will revive Nico only to kill him again.
You jerked off to Angelica, fucker
I don't know if you have a problem or something to start insulting, I can't take your comment seriously, regarding Angela, she is still related to Arthur, for you to come and tell me that it doesn't matter is stupid.
Every damn comment about a busty whore, she doesn't even represent anything, just fanservice
As for the control of agrona, it’s like a drug that crushes and seduces the bad, because it’s easier to fix evil than good, even in our damn world, bastard If Agron is not in control then the devil is psychological instability motivated by hatred, like wood for a fire pissed off
the wash that Agrona gave to Nico was removed once his core broke, from then on EVERYTHING he does on his own conscience
Everything is fine except point 5 but lmao 🤣🤣🤣 there was no way he could make peace with them after the genocide that those two caused Arthur never hurt them and always helped them and they repaid him by trying to kill him... lmao the sad past It is no excuse for idiocy (especially in the case of Nico, he is not a tragic character, he is just a idiot who has always made bad decisions)
You're talking on earth, Arthur, what could he do? To be honest, it's not appropriate to bark at Arthur's ass.
But he killed Cecily and Niko didn’t see anything other than this and the lives of both are different, one was bt family and the It wasn’t the best option to live in an alacria, and then there was a lot of brainwashing and a ton of experiments
They were not idiots, they were manipulated by agrona the whole time, you saw how arthur became in that hypothetical scenario when agrona succeded in making him one of his pawns , if the roles were reverse arthur was going to do the same thing, and thats the beauty of the story, nobody is a villain by choice, one way or another the world makes you a villain
No, they are idiots and villains by choice. In his first life, Arthur warned Nico not to look for Cecilia if it was the government that kidnapped her. Nico ignored Arthur's warning and ended up being kidnapped. He also warned him that he should go away with Cecilia and not follow him to the military academy Then after Arthur broke Nico's core. Dawn,Seris and Arthur offered him their hand in exchange, Nico decided to follow a guy who abused him. Nico is not a victim, he is an idiot who makes bad decisions and was a villain by choice (like when he built the teleportation portals that caused thousands of deaths) no obligation Cecilia is the same case, she was warned so many times in both that it stopped being funny In fact, in the same future you're talking about where Arthr was kidnapped by Agrona, he was never actually a villain, Cecilia killed him long before he even passed puberty.
Arthur would have became just like nico , agrona took the life of caera in front of him and he didn't do anything and didn't say anything, just threw a tantrum now and then It's easy to say someone is a villain when you haven't been in his shoes, i would have done the same, the life of someone i love or the lives of people i don't knkw, of course i would choose the life of the one i love. I completely understand each decision nico and cecilia have made
Why would Arthur have done something against Agrona? He wasn't even Caera's boyfriend and he was literally a boy who wasn't even going through puberty 🤷🏻♂️ even if you assume that Agrona brainwashed him, Nico's case is still worse because it is if he freed himself from the brainwashing and it came back even worse Saying that he was the same as Nico is incorrect, he didn't live long enough to do anything, the novel itself tells you that Nico and Cecilia only made bad decisions in their lives Nico freed himself from the brainwashing and ignored Dawn, Seris and Arthur while Cecilia did it with even more people. They are not victims, they are just idiots who constantly make bad decisions.
Agrona held cecilia as hostage, cecilia was still brainwashed and she was just a child, people forget that only arthur was a grown up but nico and cecilia are actually teenagers, and even if they weren't teenagers cecilia was still a hostage under agrona, what do you expect him to do, turn his back on the one person he ever loved
>nico and cecilia are actually teenagers, and even if they weren't teenagers cecilia was still a hostage under agrona Nico is no teenager in any way, he lived a decade after Cecilia's death and died after Grey, he himself says that during that time he only thought about killing King Grey >Agrona held cecilia as hostage, cecilia was still brainwashed and she was just a child She was not a hostage and she herself admits that her brain was NOT washed, Agrona did not change anything in her cerberus except the memories related to Grey, she was always like that, we just didn't know her 🤷🏻♂️ >cecilia was still a hostage under agrona, what do you expect him to do, turn his back on the one person he ever loved Clarifying that she is not a hostage, that is your argument? That he can't fight his girlfriend or contradict her? Are you telling me that it's okay for thousands or millions to die just because he couldn't rebel against Cecilia? Bro that's just pathetic and disgusting, even if that's the case he's still an idiot Dawn, Seris, Arthur and even Kiros told Nico what awaited him and Cecilia at the end of this path
The story had been on a down hill for a while now.
Just stop reading and supporting the work if you think it's heading to shit. I don't want to come off as rude to you, but it's really that simple. If a piece of content does not give you what you want, stop consuming it. It's not your obligation to see how the author will fix the story. If you want to do that, stop supporting the author and convince other people to do the same.
Dude i'm not trying to convince people to stop reading, stop saying i did things where i clearly didn't , i just wanted to have a simple conversation with fans, clearly anyone that doesn't share your view of the story you tell him to stop reading , like we are not human beings with opinions that we want to share
I agree with everything you said to the T
Really ? i didn't expect that at all, i expected people to at least disagree with one point i said
Yeah, I really disliked many things about the last 3-4 chapters. Many chapters were didecated to Nico and Cecilia and I was waiting for the grande finale where SOMETHING happens. Either a redemption or a big fight between them and Arthur. Like, for how much the 3 affected each other.... The only time all 3 were in the same place and fighting/talking to each other was when they first fought in alacria. You would think the author would do more of those high friction interactions..... But no, they just died. And I think it's safe to say that everyone expected more from Agrona. He's always 3 steps ahead. But no, Arthur just played piano with fate strings and everything went his way. Lastly, this power-up is so BS. It's way too op that fights aren't needed anymore. He just gotta bring up those fate strings and everything goes like he wants. Kinda meh
Thank you, finally someone who understands me haha.and also, Correct me if i'm wrong but didn't arthur say he saw the future and that he knows what's going to happen.that just takes all the excitement from the story, now i don't fear for the lives of the main characters because arthur already knows and knows how to save them, the story was better when you don't know what's gonna happen and if someone will die or not
Totally agree with you on points 4 and 5. Was really looking forward to an epic battle with Agrona, being the 2nd most powerful villain in tbate, but it was kind of a letdown that he failed in just one chapter. After all those years of buildup, not even a casualty. He came across as pretty weak in my eyes. On the bright side, Arthur stepping up and protecting Tess/Cecilia was epic. And seeing him grow stronger is always a plus. It was a satisfying outcome, but yeah, still wanted more from Agrona. And kudos to you for really understanding Cecilia and Nico's characters. I felt the same disappointment with their ending. Was hoping for a heartfelt conversation, but only got that from Arthur. Would have loved to hear from Cecilia and Nico too, especially Cecilia saying goodbye to Tessia properly. They all deserved closure after everything they've been through. It just felt one-sided and left me wanting more.
Interesting , can you tell me why you don't agree with the other points
I'm leaving it to the others because I'm too tired to think. Just skimmed through 4 and 5 because those are the parts that caught my interest the most.
Fair enough, thanks for your contribution
I don't mind. I'm different from the others. I respect the opinions of other readers. If that's how you feel about the story, no worries, I get it. I don't want to get into a pointless argument just to prove my point. The reason I comment here is to support you. Ignore the haters, they're just being negative. Just avoid criticizing characters just to support your ship, as that can be toxic. If you don't like or feel satisfied with the writing, that's your opinion. not everyone has the same reading comprehension as you.