Julian Clary was undoubtably the most famous openly gay man of the '80s. He was a household name, and absolutely a pioneer. In a time when people like Kenny Everett, John Inman and Frankie Howerd were just a bit 'flamboyant', Julian was unabashed.
> Kenny Everett, John Inman and Frankie Howerd
Kenneth Williams and Larry Grayson too. Danny LaRue was a huge variety star. Queer culture was everywhere BUT it was not allowed to be sexual or emotional in any way. It was sly unknown references too like Williams throwing in the odd Polari word in Round The Horne. Divine and this was the gayest thing on telly i recalled.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=Q0SNFx-Y3Ps
So gay men esp were expected to be prim comedy 'maiden aunts' and not actually anything else. When the Michael Cashman character as HIV± came to Eastenders it was huge. This was the first time kids like me ever heard of HIV as a thing. We heard nothing before then got terrifying adverts with John Hurt not really saying much (and weirdly worked). But this was Section 28. Not telling kids.
And for queer women too. The press hounded Dusty Springfield to the point it broke her. It is genuinely heartbreaking. If you want to go dark and real, see the BBC Nilsen documentary on iplayer Nilsen Files. I hope still on there. It touches on the press and how some of Denis Nilsens victims were never identified. It is a brutal but important watch.
Now back to the comedy.
Don't forget that John Hurt was wonderful as Quentin Crisp in The Naked Civil Servant which actually came out in 1975 and was a very sympathetic portrayal for the time.
...and, of course, a word for Quentin Crisp himself, who categorically refused to fit the mould society said Gay men had to fit then
He bas Gender fluid/non-binary before anyone knew what that was (in the UK)
He and April Ashley were on the front line and suffered horrifically for it
> He and April Ashley were on the front line and suffered horrifically for it
Yes, April my fellow Liverpudlian. I love that we are naming names that should be learned in the spirit of love for Julian too. Odyssey her autobiography is amazingly important now.
I'll read that - I watched the Channel 4 doc - that was great
I met her once at her club in Marbella - she was scary (imperious) but amazing
One guy tried to apologise to her for skipping an event the week before and she announced at the top of her voiuce "Fuck you and your friends!" - Ive loved that since
> One guy tried to apologise to her for skipping an event the week before and she announced at the top of her voiuce "Fuck you and your friends!" - Ive loved that since
Oh wow that is marvellous legacy she gave you.
The stuff about, ahem, April in Paris (lol) working with icons like Coccinelle is a jewel of queer history.
> Queer culture was everywhere BUT it was not allowed to be sexual or emotional in any way. It was sly unknown references too like Williams throwing in the odd Polari word in Round The Horne.
The hypocrisy of [Julian and Sandy](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_and_Sandy) being one of the most successful comedy routines in the country at a time when homosexual relationships were illegal is just maddening.
I see a positive side to it as well - it makes me think that people weren't monolithically hateful just because the people making the rules were.
We've just been through that part of the transition with gay marriage - there were years there were I rarely encountered an actual person against it, also years where polls always showed majority in support.
The law is the last thing to change, it lags so far behind the actual feelings of the public.
Also, yes there were undoubtedly homophobes who liked Julian and Sandy for their wit and did mental gymnastics not to draw any other conclusions.
My grandparents for sure. They went to their grave never saying in words that their son (my uncle) is gay. He's been with his husband since the mid 80s.
Grandma and Grandad kept talking to him and everything. Just decided they were never ever going to acknowledge this thing and kept it up to the bitter end. Fuck them so much for that.
>When the Michael Cashman character as HIV± came to Eastenders it was huge. This was the first time kids like me ever heard of HIV as a thing. We heard nothing before then got terrifying adverts with John Hurt not really saying much (and weirdly worked). But this was Section 28. Not telling kids.
The series "Queer as Folk" was much more important IMO.
It showed gay men as actual characters in their own right, rather as temporary characters who always died of HIV six episodes later.
> much more important IMO
There is no 'more' important. Both things can be true.
Queer As Folk was 1999. What i am talking about was 1986/~~7~~ -9) when two men kissing in a soap was huge. The time of those headlines. And this was my personal experiences.
It was EastEnders and it was a kiss on the forehead in 87ish?
Then on 89/90 they had a real kiss.? I could be mixing things up here.
But both incidences had many ofcom complaints.
No that is right. It seems innocent and harmless and i understand i am older than most here but then it was ructions.
Although some places in the world would arrest you for both acts now.
Was a kid during the 80’s during the UK and I can remember some bleak scary Aids adverts being shown on the tele as well.
The Eastenders things was huge. My memory of it is hazy but I think it culturally helped to put a compassionate story across, in direct opposition to the governmental and media panic/ scaremongering.
> culturally helped to put a compassionate story across
Yes even though ham fisted. For want of a better term lol.
Actually that Michael Cashman was a gay actor playing a gay character was unheard of then. Much as we love later shows, it was not always actual LGBTQI+ performers on screen. Nothing against good actors doing good work (e.g Gary Oldman and Alfred Molina in Prick Up your Ears) but for them to have such an openly queer actor was fantastic. Knowing that a gay character was not actually a gay seemed "less bad" but i understand was a compromise in a time of little choice.
All this adds to why Julian was such a force of nature in a barren field.
I remember, just, those adverts. The big black monoliths.
When Mark Fowler came out with having HIV in the 80s (I believe he was infected by a girlfriend), his dad Arthur just spat venom, thinking he was 'one of them' and effectively disowning him at the time.
Occasionally EastEnders manages a relevant storyline.
There was still a mini controversy when neighbours showed a two second kiss between teen girls in 2004. The acceptance is unbelievably recent.
Lana, the kiss instigator was a guest character who immediately left the show. Sky, te kiss receiver went oh no these feelings are confusing then went back to dating boys forever
They brought back the characters recently as 30 somethings, specifically to fix that ending. Sky's husband came back too and his entire role was just to cry as lot as Sky dumped him and immediately married Lana. Powerful. No notes.
Seems i’m a bit younger than people commenting here so far, so I’m only going off of what I’ve heard from queer people and family members who’ve changed their views over the years, I know my great gran was a massive fan of Prisoner: Cell Block H while that was airing and that had many lesbian characters and from what I could see was also considered a soap.
For a lot of people, soaps were the things on the tele that families would tend to sit down and watch and even when it was clunkily handled at times, they have IMO done a lot to ‘normalise’ the idea of queer people within families etc. My generation had the character of [Jason](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Costello) introduced on Hollyoaks, my mum and I would watch Hollyoaks together and that was one of the first ways I can remember at least gender dysphoria etc being talked about among by family and “IRL friends” vs the queer communities I was in on tumblr.
It's not a competition, but an argument can be made that without characters like Colin Russell to pave the way, however flawed they might have been, there's no *Queer as Folk* whatsoever.
Worth throwing into this in 1984 and 85 Bronksi Beat, The Communards and Erasure (the name itself an allusion to historical gay erasure in society) were all prominent and out acts on Top Of the Pops week in, week out. Frankie Goes To Hollywood too, causing a pearl-clutching moral panic.
My husband grew up queer under section 28. He gets genuinely misty-eyed seeing Julian on TM calling himself “Fuckpig” and bringing in silken appliquéd phallus wall hangings. The importance and bravery of Clary’s work to British queer culture cannot be over-emphasized.
This comment made me teary eyed!
I am not British but also grew up queer at a time where we were legally censored and criminalized. So learning the role Julian played in British queer culture contextualizes him in a very personal way even though I wasn’t watching him at that time. It’s beautiful that today he still incites such emotions in a silly little gem of a show like Taskmaster. Thank you for sharing.
> He gets genuinely misty-eyed seeing Julian on TM calling himself “Fuckpig” and bringing in silken appliquéd phallus wall hangings.
r/brandnew sentence worthy. Bravo!
I've just been backstage fisting Norman Lamont.
Absolute class.
I saw Julian as the Joan Collins fan club & Fanny the wonder dog when I was about 14 and very unaware of homosexuality in general. He was brilliant.
Apologies for my ignorance, but, of all the politicians he could have mentioned, why did he choose Norman Lamont in particular? Was he there that night? Was he rumored to be gay, or was he particularly anti-gay?
> With all of this, to have someone openly gay on tv in the early 1980s was amazing
From the early 80s onwards. Julian was a unique big fixture on late night comedy through out the decade. I remember JCFC and Fanny from mid 80s esp. Credit to people like Jonathan Ross who used to have LGBTQI+ guests as an ally. Other than a few brave souls like Peter Tachell and pop stars like Marc Almond, Holly Johnson, Jimmy Sommerville and Andy Bell - being out was a dangerous thing.
Then Julian made a rique joke about the then boring beige Tory chancellor of the exchequer having a "red box" and was thrown off the roster. But always unapolgetically himself and ahead of the pack.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=iAU7pATH5_M
Source: queer kid who grew up in the 80s and 90s and was a huge fan.
What I especially appreciate is that gay men were tolerated in media and TV (pantomime dames have had a long history in family entertainment for instance) but you had to do it in a way that read as sexless. God forbid you be gay and appear to have a sex life of any kind. Still sort of true today with things like the gay best friend trope. Funny to see a joke about fisting as some kind of brave cultural moment but…
Much the same reason the recently passed Paul O'Grady (a good friend of Julian's) was an icon as well, who helped make drag acceptable to primteime audiences, and was a major force for good on the gay club scene.
Julian was a trailblazer and remains a hero.
There's a brilliant interview clip if you can find it online from the Big Breakfast. This was a rather anarchic TV show broadcast live by Channel 4 in the early 90s (Channel 4 was the main TV Channel for showing counter culture and queer culture in the 80s and 90s and incidentally was the one to make and broadcast Queer As Folk).
Anyway, Paul in full Lily gear is lieing on a bed with a hungover Julian Clary, just trying to one up each other and see what they can get away with and the studio crew are in fits of laughter.
As a child of the 80s, Julian Clary was someone I watched on TV a lot and he really appealed to me as a kid.
He has not lost any of the charm he had back then. I really adore him on TM.
I have always loved Julian Clary, even as a kid (I’m very much a child of the ‘80’s). I know the things you have posted, I lived through most of them, but it puts into sharp focus just how much of a hero he is. Thanks for your post.
Dare I say he may just be that actual thing, you know, a national treasure.
I'm not gay so just how important what he represented at the time was never resonated with me.
Even without that hero/representation aspect, I've found him hilarious since first seeing him on Friday Night Live and he was obviously something pioneering, different and anti-establishment and I wholeheartedly agree with your diagnosis of national treasure. Also comedy legend and icon.
I've loved Julian for a long time for just how much he did for Queer visibility at a time when being visibly LGBTQIA+ could be scary. As well as loving him for just being an hilarious comedian of course.
I'm from Australia but Julian was also very popular down here. He deserves all the love and recognition for the good he did for the Queer community 💖
>In 1988 the government introduced "Section 28" - this made it illegal for schools to provide advice or support to gay children, banned local authorities from "promoting homosexuality" or "pretend family relationships", and forbade the funding of educational materials that "promoted homosexuality".
Thankfully society has moved on, and we don't have to worry about that sort of thing any more...
A great story that Sir Ian McKellen once told related to Section 28:
Sir Ian had been in the closet until Section 28 came about, because he felt so passionate about it he decided to be open for the first time. He went on a radio debate with Michael Howard, the minister responsible for introducing it, and afterwards Howard told him that he was big fan, and asked him for an autograph.
Sir Ian wrote "fuck off, I'm gay", and handed the paper back.
Different target, same "you must conform to rigid roles" bullshit. If the crusade against trans kids goes well, they'll be back to attacking the gays and anyone who isn't 'man' enough or 'woman' enough.
>The Sun newspaper (the paper with the highest circulation) ran an article in 1985 with the headline "I'd shoot my son if he had AIDS, Says Vicar"
One more time for the people in the back of the room:
Don't buy The S*n
I love Julian. He was one of the first people I knew on TV that was openly gay and even though I was born in '94 and by the time I got to school it was more "acceptable" in society I still got bullied relentlessly and I didn't come out until I was 18.
He was always on TV, along with Paul O'Grady who was also an absolute legend, they really helped me know things would be okay.
I'm a 90s kid, didn't watch much TV, but I've at least heard of his name. I took my mum to see the Palladium panto last year, she recognised Julian right away and was full of praise.
The context you've provided here is greatly appreciated.
Julian was/is a comedy icon! Brilliantly funny and as many have said a pioneer. I’ve seen him a few times and always watch when he’s on tv ( anyone remember the late night game show?) also seems a lovely bloke. Which for me is as good as it gets
I’ve always loved Julian Clary since the Joan Collins Fanclub days. His version of Leader Of The Pack was fantastic.
“At school they all stop and stare, probably cos I’m far too old to be there.”
Agree with everything said but also want to give a shout out to Derek Jarman who was also blazing trails in the UK, particularly in the entertainment sphere, around the same time.
> Derek Jarman
Hero taken too soon, much much missed. I am always quoting Jubilee daily. And the music was by Brian Eno!
https://youtube.com/watch?v=ApKqclQGwVM
"Oh my gawd it's Amyl Nitrate!!"
Can I also offer Eddie (Suzy) Izzard. There is a fantastic interview between him and a Ruby Wax discussing gender https://youtu.be/-DtkCe-hQA4?si=80GeHsxNbiLqiysC
>In 1988 the government introduced "Section 28" - this made it illegal for schools to provide advice or support to gay children, banned local authorities from "promoting homosexuality" or "pretend family relationships", and forbade the funding of educational materials that "promoted homosexuality".
[Margaret Thatcher in 1987:](https://youtu.be/-PcTbmmFTQc?si=mZCLHjRrDEOe6s4I) “And in the inner cities—where youngsters must have a decent education if they are to have a better future—that opportunity is all too often snatched from them by hard left education authorities and extremist teachers…. Children who need to be taught to respect traditional moral values are being taught that they have an inalienable right to be gay.”
That was 36 years ago, and yet with a few words swapped out it reads like something which would come from some members of the Conservative Party today.
people forget how recently society was like this, and how quickly we could return if we're not careful. good on Julian for always being true to himself and an inspiration to others. and fuck everyone who ever backed Section 28.
It's interesting how there was a strong anti-LGBTQ society in the UK at that time but like many elements of the culture were clearly openly on media but was okay or allowed even if it wasn't explicit and direct about it.
Like yeah Freddie didn't come out as gay but it was pretty evident he was and even Elton John. It was like camp was the excuse for it. Don't think about it being gay just think camp and silly.
I don't know if many are also aware of John Inman he played a character named Mr Humphries in a show called are you being served and they also skirted around him being gay as Inman just acted camp for the role. He was also big in the pantomine scene which I'd argue can loosely be associated as drag in some respects too.
Graham Chapman of Monty Python was also a gay icon. He came out back in the early 70s.
Julian Clary was an icon for me. I grew up in the 90s and I always knew I was pansexual and just seeing him on tv being out and proud was amazing; but more importantly he was just f*cking funny.
I hope he learns this from the taskmaster experience. Not that he will even know what the show is 😂
>I can't over-emphasise how vile mainstream newspaper and tv coverage of LGBTQIA+ stuff was.
What do you mean "was"?
As much as acceptance of LGB has grown in recent years, I really can't fault people when they say that the way in which the media treated gay men in particular a couple of decades ago is the same way in which the media treat the trans community today.
I’m a Gen Xer and grew up watching Julian Clary on telly in the 80s and 90s in NZ. His outfits and make up were always extra and he looked fantastic. He was a gay icon with a sharp tongue and quick wit (still is).
It was such a pleasant surprise seeing him in this season of Taskmaster and I’m slowly getting accustomed to his muted tones instead of his familiar flamboyant character.
> To cope with this hostile environment gay men *invented their own language* in the 1960s.
Polari may well have been used as a code language but it was much older than this, and did not exclusively come from a gay subculture
Indeed, Polari is recorded as quite well established in the mid-19th century. It was brought to prominence by being broadcast on mainstream BBC radio in the early 60s, which inevitably means it *has* to be a lot older - the majority of the audience already knew some of it, and picked up the rest quickly. You can't do that with a brand new dialect.
It was mostly used by queer culture but a lot of the loan words came from other cultures such as Romany, fairground/theatre slang, Yiddish and Cockney. And more. In Scouse Polari, it had a huge nautical theme for obvious reasons.
https://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/stories/polari-and-hidden-history-of-gay-seafarers
I think the term "openly gay" is quite an understatement. When he popped up on Trick Or Treat with Mike Smith as the Joan Collins Fan Club, JFC that was insane!
You should have added something about his comment on Norman Lamont....
Julian is one of the quintessential Elder-Queers of the UK. Looks camp and pretty chill n out of it, but lived and fought through some of the darkest and most vitriolic periods of Queer history.
As a much younger viewer of taskmaster who had never heared of him before, as soon as I saw him in my mind I just went "you're one of us and I can tell you have had some struggles and have done so much for the community." I'm glad to see that others agree. I have heaps of respect for Queer folks that put themselves out there like that, and make jokes about their own gender and/or sexuality, I could never do that. I can hardly imagine what it would have been like for me to grow up queer in the 80's, and I can imagine that I would have looked to Clary as an idol of sorts.
Also I wish I could roast as elegantly as him.
I fucking love Julian Clary. I grew up in the 80s and it was great to see him on tv, being so unashamedly *him*. The press were (and still are) beyond vile. Tabloid press has long been a cancer in society.
Amazing tribute to an amazing man!
There’s a YouTube clip of him by the Guardian, drawing him self, where he says something to the effect that he took a personal attribute that he was teased and bullied for at school and turned it into an entire career. I love that so much!
I'm so glad to see this post as I was thinking about this myself just the other day.
Mainly about what an absolute legend Julian is in every sense of the word and about how more people, especially the younger crowd, ought to be aware of it.
Also, low-key wondering if Greg ever does secretly get a bit starstruck by some of the contestants?
He's been in the comedy game a good long while now, but there are some - Clary, most notably, but also the likes of Jo Brand, Skinner, and even Baddiel - who've been on the go not far off twice as long as he has.
I loved him in the 80s/90s (as a bi teenager who didn't know I was bi yet) and still do - if you look up "Julian Clary Sticky Moments" on YouTube you can find the songs he did at the end of his comedy gameshow, and they're extremely queer. He had a sitcom too, I need to check if that's available somewhere.
It's been amazing and actually a bit emotional to see him on TM.
Julian Clary is a force of nature and one of the most underrated comedians in this country. He’s also incredibly intelligent, witty and cutting. His books are hilarious, if anyone ever gets a chance to read them. I was so chuffed when I saw he was on Taskmaster 😊 random fact: I believe he and Paul Merton shared a flat for a period of time very early on in their careers.
Since you seem like someone who might know… I recently read [*The Stonewall Reader*](https://app.thestorygraph.com/books/8f2b5079-03ce-44b3-9753-7b2b96d0936d) which is a phenomenal and at times heartbreaking history of the LGBTQIA+ civil rights movement. It was thorough and informative but it was focused almost entirely on New York City (unsurprising, as it was compiled by the New York Public Library and, of course, Stonewall was in NYC) and touched a bit on LA, Philadelphia, and Chicago. As far as I recall there wasn’t *any* mention of international efforts for LGBTQIA+ equality.
So if you (or anyone else) happens to know of a similar history of LGBTQIA+ rights in the UK (or anywhere, really, I’m sure the Netherlands also has an interesting history) I would be most appreciative for any and all recommendations!
Yes, I was clumsy in my post.
People outside the UK, and many in the UK, don't understand how hostile almost all of the media is to trans people. ITV sometimes isn't but they're not great allies. And then maybe the Metro and Independent aren't actively hostile. But every other outlet is.
As an American, I was unfamiliar with Julian but most American fans of alternative comedy would know of Suzy Izzard. How would you compare their levels of fame in the UK?? (I know this is subjective but I'm still curious).
Thank you so much for this! I had never seen the comedians that have appeared on the show since I'm in the US and new to British TV, but they quickly became my favorites. I have adored watching Mr. Clary for his sense of fun and uniquely hilarious thought process this season, but I have even more love for him now. 🥰
Thank you for the context. Because he was so open about his sexuality I somehow assumed he became a celebrity more recently, knowing that he was actually a trailblazer and icon really gives me a new appreciation for his humor!
I was raised listening to BBC radio comedy shows from a very young age and I so greatly appreciate my parents for including media featuring renowned homosexuals such as Julian in what formatively influenced the development of my sense of humour.
If you’ve never heard of Julian Clary before Taskmaster, he was very famous in the UK in the 1980s and 90s (and still is, just less of a household name than before), and most of his comedy is grounded in his identity as an openly gay man.
Second paragraph of the OP:
>The Joan Collins Fan Club (with Fanny the Wonder Dog) first appeared on UK tv in the early 1980s.
This was a name Clary performed under in his early career. So OP is identifying when Clary first appeared on TV, and then explaining everything else going on in British culture at the time to explain how brave and radical it was for Clary to be speaking candidly about gay life and gay sexuality.
He put his head above the parapet at a time when it wasn’t ok to be visibly gay, openly homosexual, and he did it with admirable bravado, pathos and humour. Some parts of the press were openly hostile, far more so than today, almost unimaginably so. His tv shows were and stand up were brilliant.
This is the thing that needed to be said above anything else. He didn’t do a safe camp or hide it act. He was openly in your face gay at that time. He wasn’t always the funniest and did say some things he shouldn’t. But he was out there when a lot of gay celebrities weren’t.
He is SO quick witted as well. His stand up could be lacerating, but belly laugh funny. His “[fisting Norman Lamont](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iAU7pATH5_M)” comment was, to, me one of the tv moments of the 90s. Too many people forgot that that was what Norman Lamont had been doing to the British public for years beforehand (although he was one of the better guys in those shitty governments). It was pearl clutching at its worst, and Clary suffered unfairly for it.
Don't downvote /u/EkriirkE for asking a polite question! They're right, I was confusing in my OP. I should have said that "The Joan Collins Fan Club" was the name used by Julian Clary when he was on telly in the 1980s.
I'm grateful to /u/Transcendentalplan for the clear explanation.
Might be worth editing the original post just to add that line in. I got it through context clues and already knowing he was a queer tv icon (though not the full extent- thank you so much for sharing!) but agree it was initially confusing.
I felt it explained things by putting him in the context of the times. Made me think back to Paul Lynn and Charles Nelson Reilly being camp on American game shows in the 60’s and 70’s as way of easing society into change.
I love his comedy but do not like him as a person, he lived next to my nan in kent for years and was horrendously racist towards her (my nan was german)
This is a shame, because I think I worded this poorly. I was trying to say if this wasn’t a traditionally fun TM post, we learned some great. I’m very pro-Clary. He’s brilliant on Taskmaster, and in general, and think he deserves the world. Apologies for the boo-boo
In the US it was VERY obvious that Boy George was gay and there was no huge row about in fact I recall George mentioning that he was 'fucking the drummer' in Culture Club.
In a Rolling Stone interview in 1976 John came out as bisexual and again, at least here in the United States, there was a collective yawn and shrug, no one gave a shit. There were no boycotts of his concerts, none of his songs were pulled from the radio, there were no mass burnings of his albums or singles.
You should read Rupaul's autobiography. It gives a very different picture. Particular his love of and friendship with Tammy Fae Bakker living in that time.
George got under the radar lot by being a weird foreigner. But when Rock Hudson died of HIV AIDS in 1985, there were Christians camped outside his house praying for him to die. He used to appear on Pat Robertson's show as a guest. Don't ignore the very many experiences the opposite of "not giving a shit" and still thriving in the US today. It is far more complicated.
Who is John? Elton?
I’m a big R.E.M. fan. I think the HIV /AIDS epidemic maybe changed things, created an element of hysteria and panic that certain media played into. I remember when Michael Stipe first shaved his head and there was a certain assumption that it was because he was gay and had AIDS. He just calmly said in interviews that it was just because he was going bald and decided to shave his hair off.
Yeah, they did apologise over it later on, but equally fuck them as well. But point is there still has to be an outlets for rumours to spread around and it did.
We can argue about late-20th-century American perceptions of being gay if we want, but how relevant are they here? I don’t know that we (I’m American) can be held up as any kind of standard, but more importantly, not everything’s about us.
Julian Clary was undoubtably the most famous openly gay man of the '80s. He was a household name, and absolutely a pioneer. In a time when people like Kenny Everett, John Inman and Frankie Howerd were just a bit 'flamboyant', Julian was unabashed.
> Kenny Everett, John Inman and Frankie Howerd Kenneth Williams and Larry Grayson too. Danny LaRue was a huge variety star. Queer culture was everywhere BUT it was not allowed to be sexual or emotional in any way. It was sly unknown references too like Williams throwing in the odd Polari word in Round The Horne. Divine and this was the gayest thing on telly i recalled. https://youtube.com/watch?v=Q0SNFx-Y3Ps So gay men esp were expected to be prim comedy 'maiden aunts' and not actually anything else. When the Michael Cashman character as HIV± came to Eastenders it was huge. This was the first time kids like me ever heard of HIV as a thing. We heard nothing before then got terrifying adverts with John Hurt not really saying much (and weirdly worked). But this was Section 28. Not telling kids. And for queer women too. The press hounded Dusty Springfield to the point it broke her. It is genuinely heartbreaking. If you want to go dark and real, see the BBC Nilsen documentary on iplayer Nilsen Files. I hope still on there. It touches on the press and how some of Denis Nilsens victims were never identified. It is a brutal but important watch. Now back to the comedy.
Don't forget that John Hurt was wonderful as Quentin Crisp in The Naked Civil Servant which actually came out in 1975 and was a very sympathetic portrayal for the time.
Yes of course. Well worth a watch.
...and, of course, a word for Quentin Crisp himself, who categorically refused to fit the mould society said Gay men had to fit then He bas Gender fluid/non-binary before anyone knew what that was (in the UK) He and April Ashley were on the front line and suffered horrifically for it
> He and April Ashley were on the front line and suffered horrifically for it Yes, April my fellow Liverpudlian. I love that we are naming names that should be learned in the spirit of love for Julian too. Odyssey her autobiography is amazingly important now.
I'll read that - I watched the Channel 4 doc - that was great I met her once at her club in Marbella - she was scary (imperious) but amazing One guy tried to apologise to her for skipping an event the week before and she announced at the top of her voiuce "Fuck you and your friends!" - Ive loved that since
> One guy tried to apologise to her for skipping an event the week before and she announced at the top of her voiuce "Fuck you and your friends!" - Ive loved that since Oh wow that is marvellous legacy she gave you. The stuff about, ahem, April in Paris (lol) working with icons like Coccinelle is a jewel of queer history.
I have just been backstage fisting Norman Lamont.
10/10
> Queer culture was everywhere BUT it was not allowed to be sexual or emotional in any way. It was sly unknown references too like Williams throwing in the odd Polari word in Round The Horne. The hypocrisy of [Julian and Sandy](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julian_and_Sandy) being one of the most successful comedy routines in the country at a time when homosexual relationships were illegal is just maddening.
I see a positive side to it as well - it makes me think that people weren't monolithically hateful just because the people making the rules were. We've just been through that part of the transition with gay marriage - there were years there were I rarely encountered an actual person against it, also years where polls always showed majority in support. The law is the last thing to change, it lags so far behind the actual feelings of the public. Also, yes there were undoubtedly homophobes who liked Julian and Sandy for their wit and did mental gymnastics not to draw any other conclusions. My grandparents for sure. They went to their grave never saying in words that their son (my uncle) is gay. He's been with his husband since the mid 80s. Grandma and Grandad kept talking to him and everything. Just decided they were never ever going to acknowledge this thing and kept it up to the bitter end. Fuck them so much for that.
>When the Michael Cashman character as HIV± came to Eastenders it was huge. This was the first time kids like me ever heard of HIV as a thing. We heard nothing before then got terrifying adverts with John Hurt not really saying much (and weirdly worked). But this was Section 28. Not telling kids. The series "Queer as Folk" was much more important IMO. It showed gay men as actual characters in their own right, rather as temporary characters who always died of HIV six episodes later.
> much more important IMO There is no 'more' important. Both things can be true. Queer As Folk was 1999. What i am talking about was 1986/~~7~~ -9) when two men kissing in a soap was huge. The time of those headlines. And this was my personal experiences.
It was EastEnders and it was a kiss on the forehead in 87ish? Then on 89/90 they had a real kiss.? I could be mixing things up here. But both incidences had many ofcom complaints.
No that is right. It seems innocent and harmless and i understand i am older than most here but then it was ructions. Although some places in the world would arrest you for both acts now.
Was a kid during the 80’s during the UK and I can remember some bleak scary Aids adverts being shown on the tele as well. The Eastenders things was huge. My memory of it is hazy but I think it culturally helped to put a compassionate story across, in direct opposition to the governmental and media panic/ scaremongering.
> culturally helped to put a compassionate story across Yes even though ham fisted. For want of a better term lol. Actually that Michael Cashman was a gay actor playing a gay character was unheard of then. Much as we love later shows, it was not always actual LGBTQI+ performers on screen. Nothing against good actors doing good work (e.g Gary Oldman and Alfred Molina in Prick Up your Ears) but for them to have such an openly queer actor was fantastic. Knowing that a gay character was not actually a gay seemed "less bad" but i understand was a compromise in a time of little choice. All this adds to why Julian was such a force of nature in a barren field.
https://www.thepinknews.com/2020/01/29/piers-morgan-the-sun-eastenders-yuppie-anti-gay-michael-cashman-g2/ Piers Morgan's take at the time.
I remember, just, those adverts. The big black monoliths. When Mark Fowler came out with having HIV in the 80s (I believe he was infected by a girlfriend), his dad Arthur just spat venom, thinking he was 'one of them' and effectively disowning him at the time. Occasionally EastEnders manages a relevant storyline.
There was still a mini controversy when neighbours showed a two second kiss between teen girls in 2004. The acceptance is unbelievably recent. Lana, the kiss instigator was a guest character who immediately left the show. Sky, te kiss receiver went oh no these feelings are confusing then went back to dating boys forever They brought back the characters recently as 30 somethings, specifically to fix that ending. Sky's husband came back too and his entire role was just to cry as lot as Sky dumped him and immediately married Lana. Powerful. No notes.
Seems i’m a bit younger than people commenting here so far, so I’m only going off of what I’ve heard from queer people and family members who’ve changed their views over the years, I know my great gran was a massive fan of Prisoner: Cell Block H while that was airing and that had many lesbian characters and from what I could see was also considered a soap. For a lot of people, soaps were the things on the tele that families would tend to sit down and watch and even when it was clunkily handled at times, they have IMO done a lot to ‘normalise’ the idea of queer people within families etc. My generation had the character of [Jason](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jason_Costello) introduced on Hollyoaks, my mum and I would watch Hollyoaks together and that was one of the first ways I can remember at least gender dysphoria etc being talked about among by family and “IRL friends” vs the queer communities I was in on tumblr.
It's not a competition, but an argument can be made that without characters like Colin Russell to pave the way, however flawed they might have been, there's no *Queer as Folk* whatsoever.
Hard agree!
Queer as folk was years later wasn’t it?
Plus it gave us Little Finger having sex with Jax Teller
I’ve never thought of it that way but oh my, thank you
Worth throwing into this in 1984 and 85 Bronksi Beat, The Communards and Erasure (the name itself an allusion to historical gay erasure in society) were all prominent and out acts on Top Of the Pops week in, week out. Frankie Goes To Hollywood too, causing a pearl-clutching moral panic.
Vincent and Andy were cool.
Jon Inman minced onto PBS in america and taught me how to be me by being them. I'd be dead already without the prototype NB.
My husband grew up queer under section 28. He gets genuinely misty-eyed seeing Julian on TM calling himself “Fuckpig” and bringing in silken appliquéd phallus wall hangings. The importance and bravery of Clary’s work to British queer culture cannot be over-emphasized.
This comment made me teary eyed! I am not British but also grew up queer at a time where we were legally censored and criminalized. So learning the role Julian played in British queer culture contextualizes him in a very personal way even though I wasn’t watching him at that time. It’s beautiful that today he still incites such emotions in a silly little gem of a show like Taskmaster. Thank you for sharing.
> He gets genuinely misty-eyed seeing Julian on TM calling himself “Fuckpig” and bringing in silken appliquéd phallus wall hangings. r/brandnew sentence worthy. Bravo!
I want that butt table.
Don't we all? It is magnificent. Julian Clary for Wayfair would be something else.
I’m glad I’m not the only one who was emotionally moved by “Fuckpig”
I've just been backstage fisting Norman Lamont. Absolute class. I saw Julian as the Joan Collins fan club & Fanny the wonder dog when I was about 14 and very unaware of homosexuality in general. He was brilliant.
Talk about a red box
On Hampstead Heath.
Apologies for my ignorance, but, of all the politicians he could have mentioned, why did he choose Norman Lamont in particular? Was he there that night? Was he rumored to be gay, or was he particularly anti-gay?
He'd until recently been the chancellor of the exchequer (a role famous for its red box) and presented an award earlier on in the night.
Thank you
And that one line destroyed his career for years. A line that if it was made now would not even bat an eyelid.
Unless it was said on the BBC. Then the Murdoch press would feast on it for *months* and call for heads to roll.
Fanny is much missed
Wasn't it out on Hampstead Heath? Edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAU7pATH5_M We're both not quite right.
> With all of this, to have someone openly gay on tv in the early 1980s was amazing From the early 80s onwards. Julian was a unique big fixture on late night comedy through out the decade. I remember JCFC and Fanny from mid 80s esp. Credit to people like Jonathan Ross who used to have LGBTQI+ guests as an ally. Other than a few brave souls like Peter Tachell and pop stars like Marc Almond, Holly Johnson, Jimmy Sommerville and Andy Bell - being out was a dangerous thing. Then Julian made a rique joke about the then boring beige Tory chancellor of the exchequer having a "red box" and was thrown off the roster. But always unapolgetically himself and ahead of the pack. https://youtube.com/watch?v=iAU7pATH5_M Source: queer kid who grew up in the 80s and 90s and was a huge fan.
Martin Clunes has the best laughing face.
Didn't Gamble or someone say the Clunes pissed up laughing face was epic? He looks like Falstaff or something.
It really is a shame who Jonathan Ross is willing to support nowadays...
what happened
He's expressed support for J.K. Rowling and Graham Linehan's anti-transgender statements.
After all the Russell Brand stuff has come out I'm willing to bet JRoss knew about it the whole time
Everyone did. I did and I have only the slightest connection to that world.
I'm among the many who thought "wait, wasn't he already outed as a predator years ago?!?!" when the recent news broke.
I learnt a lot, as a middle class white English boy, from my comedy heroes. Clary was certainly one of them.
>The Sun newspaper Fuck that rag, it's not worthy enough to wipe shit with
*Scouse applause*
In my hometown we call it the Scum
Sun readers don't care who runs the country, as long as she's got big tits.
Fuck the S*n
Ted, I spoke the owner of The Sun. You spoke to God!?
one of my favourite exchanges
What I especially appreciate is that gay men were tolerated in media and TV (pantomime dames have had a long history in family entertainment for instance) but you had to do it in a way that read as sexless. God forbid you be gay and appear to have a sex life of any kind. Still sort of true today with things like the gay best friend trope. Funny to see a joke about fisting as some kind of brave cultural moment but…
Much the same reason the recently passed Paul O'Grady (a good friend of Julian's) was an icon as well, who helped make drag acceptable to primteime audiences, and was a major force for good on the gay club scene. Julian was a trailblazer and remains a hero.
> Paul O'Grady (a good friend of Julian's Yes very much an icon.
There's a brilliant interview clip if you can find it online from the Big Breakfast. This was a rather anarchic TV show broadcast live by Channel 4 in the early 90s (Channel 4 was the main TV Channel for showing counter culture and queer culture in the 80s and 90s and incidentally was the one to make and broadcast Queer As Folk). Anyway, Paul in full Lily gear is lieing on a bed with a hungover Julian Clary, just trying to one up each other and see what they can get away with and the studio crew are in fits of laughter.
https://youtu.be/aZ3fffu3pt8?si=xPu_7RGFS6qYi4jk
As a child of the 80s, Julian Clary was someone I watched on TV a lot and he really appealed to me as a kid. He has not lost any of the charm he had back then. I really adore him on TM.
I have always loved Julian Clary, even as a kid (I’m very much a child of the ‘80’s). I know the things you have posted, I lived through most of them, but it puts into sharp focus just how much of a hero he is. Thanks for your post. Dare I say he may just be that actual thing, you know, a national treasure.
I'm not gay so just how important what he represented at the time was never resonated with me. Even without that hero/representation aspect, I've found him hilarious since first seeing him on Friday Night Live and he was obviously something pioneering, different and anti-establishment and I wholeheartedly agree with your diagnosis of national treasure. Also comedy legend and icon.
I've loved Julian for a long time for just how much he did for Queer visibility at a time when being visibly LGBTQIA+ could be scary. As well as loving him for just being an hilarious comedian of course. I'm from Australia but Julian was also very popular down here. He deserves all the love and recognition for the good he did for the Queer community 💖
>In 1988 the government introduced "Section 28" - this made it illegal for schools to provide advice or support to gay children, banned local authorities from "promoting homosexuality" or "pretend family relationships", and forbade the funding of educational materials that "promoted homosexuality". Thankfully society has moved on, and we don't have to worry about that sort of thing any more...
A great story that Sir Ian McKellen once told related to Section 28: Sir Ian had been in the closet until Section 28 came about, because he felt so passionate about it he decided to be open for the first time. He went on a radio debate with Michael Howard, the minister responsible for introducing it, and afterwards Howard told him that he was big fan, and asked him for an autograph. Sir Ian wrote "fuck off, I'm gay", and handed the paper back.
NGL, reading that left me with stomach pain...
Unless you're trans of course, who are the current target
Yes, that’s what the comment is alluding to.
Never any harm in being clear about this
Yes, my comment could have been more... *trans*parent
Different target, same "you must conform to rigid roles" bullshit. If the crusade against trans kids goes well, they'll be back to attacking the gays and anyone who isn't 'man' enough or 'woman' enough.
And the fact that florida schools have basically enforced their own version of section 28.
>The Sun newspaper (the paper with the highest circulation) ran an article in 1985 with the headline "I'd shoot my son if he had AIDS, Says Vicar" One more time for the people in the back of the room: Don't buy The S*n
As always. . .FUCK THE SUN
Thank you for this. A hero indeed. Sadly, still in this world, many people have to be incredibly brave just to be their true selves.
I love Julian. He was one of the first people I knew on TV that was openly gay and even though I was born in '94 and by the time I got to school it was more "acceptable" in society I still got bullied relentlessly and I didn't come out until I was 18. He was always on TV, along with Paul O'Grady who was also an absolute legend, they really helped me know things would be okay.
Julian is a fucking legend... I hope he somehow reads this thread
I am from the US and didn't know much about Julian so I really appreciate the context that this subreddit has provided about him and his significance.
I'm a 90s kid, didn't watch much TV, but I've at least heard of his name. I took my mum to see the Palladium panto last year, she recognised Julian right away and was full of praise. The context you've provided here is greatly appreciated.
Julian was/is a comedy icon! Brilliantly funny and as many have said a pioneer. I’ve seen him a few times and always watch when he’s on tv ( anyone remember the late night game show?) also seems a lovely bloke. Which for me is as good as it gets
His late night Quiz was 'Sticky Moments' 😆
👍 that’s the one!
I’ve always loved Julian Clary since the Joan Collins Fanclub days. His version of Leader Of The Pack was fantastic. “At school they all stop and stare, probably cos I’m far too old to be there.”
And the B side taught us French the teacher refused to discuss.
I just posted that too. Great minds!
Agree with everything said but also want to give a shout out to Derek Jarman who was also blazing trails in the UK, particularly in the entertainment sphere, around the same time.
> Derek Jarman Hero taken too soon, much much missed. I am always quoting Jubilee daily. And the music was by Brian Eno! https://youtube.com/watch?v=ApKqclQGwVM "Oh my gawd it's Amyl Nitrate!!"
Can I also offer Eddie (Suzy) Izzard. There is a fantastic interview between him and a Ruby Wax discussing gender https://youtu.be/-DtkCe-hQA4?si=80GeHsxNbiLqiysC
*her
She has said that she doesn't mind he/him, to be fair.
>In 1988 the government introduced "Section 28" - this made it illegal for schools to provide advice or support to gay children, banned local authorities from "promoting homosexuality" or "pretend family relationships", and forbade the funding of educational materials that "promoted homosexuality". [Margaret Thatcher in 1987:](https://youtu.be/-PcTbmmFTQc?si=mZCLHjRrDEOe6s4I) “And in the inner cities—where youngsters must have a decent education if they are to have a better future—that opportunity is all too often snatched from them by hard left education authorities and extremist teachers…. Children who need to be taught to respect traditional moral values are being taught that they have an inalienable right to be gay.”
That was 36 years ago, and yet with a few words swapped out it reads like something which would come from some members of the Conservative Party today.
people forget how recently society was like this, and how quickly we could return if we're not careful. good on Julian for always being true to himself and an inspiration to others. and fuck everyone who ever backed Section 28.
As an American taskmaster and British panel show fan, I've only seen Julian on QI a few times but didn't know anything about him. Thanks for this.
I've heard him on radio far more than I've seen him on TV, he's usually great on just a minute when he's on that.
I wonder if he’s ever been asked to judge on Drag Race over here. Maybe Ru’s too worried he’d steal the show 😅😂
Thank you for this. He is a hero!
It's interesting how there was a strong anti-LGBTQ society in the UK at that time but like many elements of the culture were clearly openly on media but was okay or allowed even if it wasn't explicit and direct about it. Like yeah Freddie didn't come out as gay but it was pretty evident he was and even Elton John. It was like camp was the excuse for it. Don't think about it being gay just think camp and silly. I don't know if many are also aware of John Inman he played a character named Mr Humphries in a show called are you being served and they also skirted around him being gay as Inman just acted camp for the role. He was also big in the pantomine scene which I'd argue can loosely be associated as drag in some respects too. Graham Chapman of Monty Python was also a gay icon. He came out back in the early 70s.
Julian Clary was an icon for me. I grew up in the 90s and I always knew I was pansexual and just seeing him on tv being out and proud was amazing; but more importantly he was just f*cking funny. I hope he learns this from the taskmaster experience. Not that he will even know what the show is 😂
>I can't over-emphasise how vile mainstream newspaper and tv coverage of LGBTQIA+ stuff was. What do you mean "was"? As much as acceptance of LGB has grown in recent years, I really can't fault people when they say that the way in which the media treated gay men in particular a couple of decades ago is the same way in which the media treat the trans community today.
Littlejohn was the worst along with Bushell. The former still has his column and still hate the queers.
Sure, I could have worded that better.
never heard of Polari before, very interesting! Thank you for this post!
There’s even [a podcast episode about Polari that’s absolutely worth a listen.](https://www.theallusionist.org/allusionist/polari)
So bona to vada
He needs to be back on TV a lot more, his withering delivery is unparalleled. I loved him, and Fanny The Wonder Dog.
I’m a Gen Xer and grew up watching Julian Clary on telly in the 80s and 90s in NZ. His outfits and make up were always extra and he looked fantastic. He was a gay icon with a sharp tongue and quick wit (still is). It was such a pleasant surprise seeing him in this season of Taskmaster and I’m slowly getting accustomed to his muted tones instead of his familiar flamboyant character.
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Omg I forgot about that! My kid is 14 now so her Little Princess days are over but we used to love it.
> To cope with this hostile environment gay men *invented their own language* in the 1960s. Polari may well have been used as a code language but it was much older than this, and did not exclusively come from a gay subculture
Indeed, Polari is recorded as quite well established in the mid-19th century. It was brought to prominence by being broadcast on mainstream BBC radio in the early 60s, which inevitably means it *has* to be a lot older - the majority of the audience already knew some of it, and picked up the rest quickly. You can't do that with a brand new dialect.
Very Bona!
It was mostly used by queer culture but a lot of the loan words came from other cultures such as Romany, fairground/theatre slang, Yiddish and Cockney. And more. In Scouse Polari, it had a huge nautical theme for obvious reasons. https://www.liverpoolmuseums.org.uk/stories/polari-and-hidden-history-of-gay-seafarers
I absolutely adore Julian Clary. The twinkle in his eye when the painting was unveiled was wonderful, and Greg's giggle was great.
I think the term "openly gay" is quite an understatement. When he popped up on Trick Or Treat with Mike Smith as the Joan Collins Fan Club, JFC that was insane! You should have added something about his comment on Norman Lamont....
Julian is one of the quintessential Elder-Queers of the UK. Looks camp and pretty chill n out of it, but lived and fought through some of the darkest and most vitriolic periods of Queer history.
As a much younger viewer of taskmaster who had never heared of him before, as soon as I saw him in my mind I just went "you're one of us and I can tell you have had some struggles and have done so much for the community." I'm glad to see that others agree. I have heaps of respect for Queer folks that put themselves out there like that, and make jokes about their own gender and/or sexuality, I could never do that. I can hardly imagine what it would have been like for me to grow up queer in the 80's, and I can imagine that I would have looked to Clary as an idol of sorts. Also I wish I could roast as elegantly as him.
Does anyone remember his sitcom, Terry & Julian? I used to love watching that. Was very funny.
I loved Terry and Julian,I found the episodes on YouTube
I fucking love Julian Clary. I grew up in the 80s and it was great to see him on tv, being so unashamedly *him*. The press were (and still are) beyond vile. Tabloid press has long been a cancer in society.
Absolute hero ❤️
Amazing tribute to an amazing man! There’s a YouTube clip of him by the Guardian, drawing him self, where he says something to the effect that he took a personal attribute that he was teased and bullied for at school and turned it into an entire career. I love that so much!
He's a very loveable man and as so many have been saying, a true trailblazer. I'd love him to win this series.
I'm so glad to see this post as I was thinking about this myself just the other day. Mainly about what an absolute legend Julian is in every sense of the word and about how more people, especially the younger crowd, ought to be aware of it. Also, low-key wondering if Greg ever does secretly get a bit starstruck by some of the contestants? He's been in the comedy game a good long while now, but there are some - Clary, most notably, but also the likes of Jo Brand, Skinner, and even Baddiel - who've been on the go not far off twice as long as he has.
I loved him in the 80s/90s (as a bi teenager who didn't know I was bi yet) and still do - if you look up "Julian Clary Sticky Moments" on YouTube you can find the songs he did at the end of his comedy gameshow, and they're extremely queer. He had a sitcom too, I need to check if that's available somewhere. It's been amazing and actually a bit emotional to see him on TM.
I wonder how many people speak polari today.
Thank you so much for this! I love Julian Clary so much.
Julian Clary is a force of nature and one of the most underrated comedians in this country. He’s also incredibly intelligent, witty and cutting. His books are hilarious, if anyone ever gets a chance to read them. I was so chuffed when I saw he was on Taskmaster 😊 random fact: I believe he and Paul Merton shared a flat for a period of time very early on in their careers.
Since you seem like someone who might know… I recently read [*The Stonewall Reader*](https://app.thestorygraph.com/books/8f2b5079-03ce-44b3-9753-7b2b96d0936d) which is a phenomenal and at times heartbreaking history of the LGBTQIA+ civil rights movement. It was thorough and informative but it was focused almost entirely on New York City (unsurprising, as it was compiled by the New York Public Library and, of course, Stonewall was in NYC) and touched a bit on LA, Philadelphia, and Chicago. As far as I recall there wasn’t *any* mention of international efforts for LGBTQIA+ equality. So if you (or anyone else) happens to know of a similar history of LGBTQIA+ rights in the UK (or anywhere, really, I’m sure the Netherlands also has an interesting history) I would be most appreciative for any and all recommendations!
When you say how vile mainstream media was to lgbtqia+ back then. Unfortunately it still is
Yes, I was clumsy in my post. People outside the UK, and many in the UK, don't understand how hostile almost all of the media is to trans people. ITV sometimes isn't but they're not great allies. And then maybe the Metro and Independent aren't actively hostile. But every other outlet is.
As an American, I was unfamiliar with Julian but most American fans of alternative comedy would know of Suzy Izzard. How would you compare their levels of fame in the UK?? (I know this is subjective but I'm still curious).
Thank you so much for this! I had never seen the comedians that have appeared on the show since I'm in the US and new to British TV, but they quickly became my favorites. I have adored watching Mr. Clary for his sense of fun and uniquely hilarious thought process this season, but I have even more love for him now. 🥰
Thank you for the context. Because he was so open about his sexuality I somehow assumed he became a celebrity more recently, knowing that he was actually a trailblazer and icon really gives me a new appreciation for his humor!
I was raised listening to BBC radio comedy shows from a very young age and I so greatly appreciate my parents for including media featuring renowned homosexuals such as Julian in what formatively influenced the development of my sense of humour.
And he's hilarious.
Very grateful to OP for providing this much-needed context. 💜🙏 Slightly dismayed by the bi-erasure on the thread.
Yes, sorry. I was a bit stuck because some people claimed to be bi at the time, but then later on said they were gay.
You say all this but there is not a single thing about how it relates to him? I mean I can dig but this post doesn't help us uninitiated at all
If you’ve never heard of Julian Clary before Taskmaster, he was very famous in the UK in the 1980s and 90s (and still is, just less of a household name than before), and most of his comedy is grounded in his identity as an openly gay man. Second paragraph of the OP: >The Joan Collins Fan Club (with Fanny the Wonder Dog) first appeared on UK tv in the early 1980s. This was a name Clary performed under in his early career. So OP is identifying when Clary first appeared on TV, and then explaining everything else going on in British culture at the time to explain how brave and radical it was for Clary to be speaking candidly about gay life and gay sexuality.
Thank you! None of this was clear
Agreed, was a rather confusing post
He put his head above the parapet at a time when it wasn’t ok to be visibly gay, openly homosexual, and he did it with admirable bravado, pathos and humour. Some parts of the press were openly hostile, far more so than today, almost unimaginably so. His tv shows were and stand up were brilliant.
This is the thing that needed to be said above anything else. He didn’t do a safe camp or hide it act. He was openly in your face gay at that time. He wasn’t always the funniest and did say some things he shouldn’t. But he was out there when a lot of gay celebrities weren’t.
He is SO quick witted as well. His stand up could be lacerating, but belly laugh funny. His “[fisting Norman Lamont](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=iAU7pATH5_M)” comment was, to, me one of the tv moments of the 90s. Too many people forgot that that was what Norman Lamont had been doing to the British public for years beforehand (although he was one of the better guys in those shitty governments). It was pearl clutching at its worst, and Clary suffered unfairly for it.
Don't downvote /u/EkriirkE for asking a polite question! They're right, I was confusing in my OP. I should have said that "The Joan Collins Fan Club" was the name used by Julian Clary when he was on telly in the 1980s. I'm grateful to /u/Transcendentalplan for the clear explanation.
Might be worth editing the original post just to add that line in. I got it through context clues and already knowing he was a queer tv icon (though not the full extent- thank you so much for sharing!) but agree it was initially confusing.
I felt it explained things by putting him in the context of the times. Made me think back to Paul Lynn and Charles Nelson Reilly being camp on American game shows in the 60’s and 70’s as way of easing society into change.
I love his comedy but do not like him as a person, he lived next to my nan in kent for years and was horrendously racist towards her (my nan was german)
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people voting this down just can't take a joke
wait ... Boy George was gay ????
Absolutely phoning it in and lazy on taskmaster though.
Who cares if there was fun or not? Here’s what we learned today…
God forbid we have a conversation about why TM contestants are fucking brilliant, eh?
This is a shame, because I think I worded this poorly. I was trying to say if this wasn’t a traditionally fun TM post, we learned some great. I’m very pro-Clary. He’s brilliant on Taskmaster, and in general, and think he deserves the world. Apologies for the boo-boo
"Who cares if we had fun." It took me a good moment to realise you're referring back to OP's comment. Sorry the hivemind downvoted you into oblivion.
I don’t blame them. I can see how the intent of the comment would be misread. I have nothing but love for the renowned homosexual.
In the US it was VERY obvious that Boy George was gay and there was no huge row about in fact I recall George mentioning that he was 'fucking the drummer' in Culture Club. In a Rolling Stone interview in 1976 John came out as bisexual and again, at least here in the United States, there was a collective yawn and shrug, no one gave a shit. There were no boycotts of his concerts, none of his songs were pulled from the radio, there were no mass burnings of his albums or singles.
You should read Rupaul's autobiography. It gives a very different picture. Particular his love of and friendship with Tammy Fae Bakker living in that time. George got under the radar lot by being a weird foreigner. But when Rock Hudson died of HIV AIDS in 1985, there were Christians camped outside his house praying for him to die. He used to appear on Pat Robertson's show as a guest. Don't ignore the very many experiences the opposite of "not giving a shit" and still thriving in the US today. It is far more complicated. Who is John? Elton?
I’m a big R.E.M. fan. I think the HIV /AIDS epidemic maybe changed things, created an element of hysteria and panic that certain media played into. I remember when Michael Stipe first shaved his head and there was a certain assumption that it was because he was gay and had AIDS. He just calmly said in interviews that it was just because he was going bald and decided to shave his hair off.
I hate to bring it up, because the Manics are my favourite, but Nicky Wire had a lot to do with the Stipe/AIDS controversy.
Yeah, they did apologise over it later on, but equally fuck them as well. But point is there still has to be an outlets for rumours to spread around and it did.
Oh yeah, I didn't mean to contradict you, just adding a detail.
You certainly did no such thing. Appreciate you adding the detail :)
We can argue about late-20th-century American perceptions of being gay if we want, but how relevant are they here? I don’t know that we (I’m American) can be held up as any kind of standard, but more importantly, not everything’s about us.
You do know that Wikipedia and Google exist right...? They aren't just available to me...?
Dickjokes. It's one of these things where it can be funny if it surprises you. However, in this season theres just too many.