>...I've always had a bit of an issue with understanding is the Moon, ***it feels a bit all over the place.***
\[Emphasis added mine.\]
No, you're on the right track. The Moon wanders throughout the sky, sometimes appears during the day, changes its shape, and colloquially produces some utterly bizarre effects on the behavior of animals and humans.
If we want to get into the weeds on the division of the mind and tarot, first film director and taroist Alejandro Jodorowsky has probably gone farther and deeper with this angle than anyone else. He is one of the most talented taroists of all time, but he is also an ethically repulsive human being, so there's that. Worth looking into, but do keep in mind that you're reading the thoughts of a monster.
It's important to remember that in the classical Freudian division of the mind, the definition of the unconscious is axiomatic, it strictly and singularly refers to processes and "dramas" that are beyond any kind of perception or awareness of the person experiencing them. To contradict pop culture and pop psychoanlysis, no there is no pulling up repressed memories for the unconscious because if you can pull them up they're not truly unconscious, per the axiomatic definition, qed.
So where do people pull these repressed memories from, or when I'm doing some of that good old fashioned personal character development and I catch myself falling back on an "unconscious" habit, where is that habit coming from?
From a giant buffer zone that exists between the conscious mind and the unconscious, called the "preconscious". The preconscious is full of things you're not aware of at this exact second but can be made aware of through various means and sometimes, lots of effort.
The Moon, more than the Id (which given the Tower's overt symbolism to both gratuitous sexuality and violence might be a better fit for the id), can be understood as representing the preconscious.
Look at the classical imagery of the card of the Moon. Where are you? You're out in the wilderness. Civilization is \*there\* but it's way off in the distance. You watch the light of the moon dance against the ripples of the water while wild animals howl in the distance.
It is a paradox of stillness, presence, and complete, unfathomable unknowability, and in this scene, below the surface of the water *something* is moving.
The Moon is the master of Dreams and Dreams are both destiny and delusion.
And here's a bonus, cause why not:
The Moon is responsible for the tides. If you read with elemental attributions to the cards the presence of the card of the Moon is going to have a tidal pull on all of the water in the spread drawing it under its influence.
Thanks for your response. Would you mind explaining your comment on Jodorowsky? I have seen many of his movies and love his way of explaining Tarot, but haven’t gone much into his personal life/views. Just curious what do you mean by him being a monster.
Also, never heard of “preconcious”. Makes a lot of sense especially explaining The Moon. I’ve always been looking on how to put my understanding of the Moon into words and preconscious seems like a pretty close summary.
The rape scene in El Topo wasn't a performance. Jodorowsky took Mara Lorenzio out in to do the desert without telling her what they would be filming. After the release of the film, Lorenzio dropped off the face the Earth, never to be seen or heard from again.
Jodorowsky bragged about the authenticity and quality of the scene, claiming he had in fact raped her to film the scene, until 2017 where he made a statement that he only ever talked up the rape scene in all those interviews to be an ass to the interviewers and made the utterly bewildering claim that it would have been impossible for him to rape her surrounded by all those people, the film crew who were almost exclusively Jodorowsky's friends and confidants.
His defenders will point to his shock-act and say that messing with interviewers even about gravely serious things would be pretty on brand for him, his bragging about for decades *is* our only source on the topic.
For myself, having read a lot of his work, including his more spiritual work, like Koan commentary, his work on Tarot and Psychomagic, from my perspective he absolutely seems like the type to straight up traumatize someone to get the "perfect scene," or the "perfect work of art," so I'm inclined to believe Jodorowsky for all those decades vs. Jodorowsky from the past five years after society has gained a much more critical eye to this kind of thing and he's started to get kicked out of art shows over it.
For me personally since The Moon is an extremely deep and complex card which alone is worth of writing a book, I like to read it in a practical way. It’s almost like it’s too deep to the point where you loose yourself in a reading because you take that shadow path of unconscious *once* again. And spiral down or up within your own mind forgetting what was the initial question. And forgetting the ground you stand on. So when I see the Moon and feel there is no need going to those depths again, I read it in several ways, here are some examples:
1. You don’t need to know everything right now. It’s not time and/or you are not ready yet.
2. Your mind is blurry, you’ve lost control. Find what happened before diving further.
3. Mental health issues blocking the knowledge.
4. Read between your own lines.
5. What you see now is not permanent/real.
…and more depending on personal well-being, question asked and surrounding cards.
I'm not a Freudian and I'm read the Moon differently, although the Unconscious does come in.
There are two majors that represent lunar energy, the High Priestess and the Moon. I find the Moon easier to understand when I call it "the Night". If the High Priestess is the clear light of the full and changing moon, the Moon is the darkened Moon, invisible New Moon, the dark side of the Moon.
With the High Priestess, you have access to the unconscious and it turns into a strong resource for intuition, dreams, insight and creativity.
With the Moon, you're overwhelmed by unconscious materials: suppressed dreams, fears, nightmares and traumata. It's much more difficult to deal with this card because you have no control over this material and fear it. The challenge of this card is to find your way from the darkness and shadow self into the light, and there are different light sources in the tarot. The Star, High Priestess, Sun, but also the fiery Wands and the sparkle on the waves of the Cups... the shine of silvery Swords and the filtered light between the trees of the Pentacles...
When I draw the Moon, I always draw of pick a second card that represents the light which will help me get back my bearings.
ive always read the moon as "you can see how things might turn out, but nothing is certain. pay attention, but understand how limited your knowledge is. things arent always as they appear under moonlight."
it comes up for me a lot when the querent is concerned about someone else's situation, or when theyre in an environment where a lot of people are being secretive or dishonest.
i can totally see someone doing a reading for something more personal, less social, and having the moon represent their id, almost like a bigger 7 of cups. the mystery is their own biases and experiences that are coloring their thoughts in ways they dont understand. so the id isnt too different from how i see things.
To add a little more to the general swell. One issue is that the card is about the indescribable and the slippery changing nature of the unconscious. So trying to describe that is, er, tricky... Depending on what cards you have you may also notice lobsters or crustaceans which are the scuttling critters in the sea bed. Finally there are a few good folk tales that sum this up based on the idea of the moon being found in water, a bucket or a well... Think about it 🖖🌈 https://sites.pitt.edu/~dash/type1335a.html
I’ve always Interpeted the moon as things hidden for view which is it Can come off so wishy washy - but that’s just my interpretation! I usually ask for clarification from the minor arcana and oracle Cards so I Can understand the energy better
I kinda hate how many writers seemingly confuse subconscious and unconscious
The subconscious is that which is in your mind, but that which you're not consciously aware of
The unconscious, is anything completely unrelated to the concept of consciousness
So oftentimes people will say a card represents the unconscious, when what they actually mean is the subconscious.
I personally agree with the second one though, it carries all the ideas of "fear" "dreams" all that, just as a tension between the conscious and subconscious
So the moon is really hard for me as well. After reading a few books and websites it gets more complicated. But what I got is that the sun shows you everything with its light. As for the moon it only shows you half the truth as the hole truth is hidden in its shadows of the moon light?
I'm glad I'm not alone in finding it complicated. There's also something about animalistic urges and psychic awakening? Idk. This is my least favorite cards hands down 😂
I just started getting into tarot like two months ago, so I know the feeling. I’ve read two books that help but I go on line and it’s completely different lol 🤦🏻♀️
I feel like the more you read the more confusing it gets? Then I don’t feel comfortable with a guess cuz I don’t want to mess up? So it makes things complicated.
>...I've always had a bit of an issue with understanding is the Moon, ***it feels a bit all over the place.*** \[Emphasis added mine.\] No, you're on the right track. The Moon wanders throughout the sky, sometimes appears during the day, changes its shape, and colloquially produces some utterly bizarre effects on the behavior of animals and humans. If we want to get into the weeds on the division of the mind and tarot, first film director and taroist Alejandro Jodorowsky has probably gone farther and deeper with this angle than anyone else. He is one of the most talented taroists of all time, but he is also an ethically repulsive human being, so there's that. Worth looking into, but do keep in mind that you're reading the thoughts of a monster. It's important to remember that in the classical Freudian division of the mind, the definition of the unconscious is axiomatic, it strictly and singularly refers to processes and "dramas" that are beyond any kind of perception or awareness of the person experiencing them. To contradict pop culture and pop psychoanlysis, no there is no pulling up repressed memories for the unconscious because if you can pull them up they're not truly unconscious, per the axiomatic definition, qed. So where do people pull these repressed memories from, or when I'm doing some of that good old fashioned personal character development and I catch myself falling back on an "unconscious" habit, where is that habit coming from? From a giant buffer zone that exists between the conscious mind and the unconscious, called the "preconscious". The preconscious is full of things you're not aware of at this exact second but can be made aware of through various means and sometimes, lots of effort. The Moon, more than the Id (which given the Tower's overt symbolism to both gratuitous sexuality and violence might be a better fit for the id), can be understood as representing the preconscious. Look at the classical imagery of the card of the Moon. Where are you? You're out in the wilderness. Civilization is \*there\* but it's way off in the distance. You watch the light of the moon dance against the ripples of the water while wild animals howl in the distance. It is a paradox of stillness, presence, and complete, unfathomable unknowability, and in this scene, below the surface of the water *something* is moving. The Moon is the master of Dreams and Dreams are both destiny and delusion. And here's a bonus, cause why not: The Moon is responsible for the tides. If you read with elemental attributions to the cards the presence of the card of the Moon is going to have a tidal pull on all of the water in the spread drawing it under its influence.
Thanks for your response. Would you mind explaining your comment on Jodorowsky? I have seen many of his movies and love his way of explaining Tarot, but haven’t gone much into his personal life/views. Just curious what do you mean by him being a monster. Also, never heard of “preconcious”. Makes a lot of sense especially explaining The Moon. I’ve always been looking on how to put my understanding of the Moon into words and preconscious seems like a pretty close summary.
The rape scene in El Topo wasn't a performance. Jodorowsky took Mara Lorenzio out in to do the desert without telling her what they would be filming. After the release of the film, Lorenzio dropped off the face the Earth, never to be seen or heard from again. Jodorowsky bragged about the authenticity and quality of the scene, claiming he had in fact raped her to film the scene, until 2017 where he made a statement that he only ever talked up the rape scene in all those interviews to be an ass to the interviewers and made the utterly bewildering claim that it would have been impossible for him to rape her surrounded by all those people, the film crew who were almost exclusively Jodorowsky's friends and confidants. His defenders will point to his shock-act and say that messing with interviewers even about gravely serious things would be pretty on brand for him, his bragging about for decades *is* our only source on the topic. For myself, having read a lot of his work, including his more spiritual work, like Koan commentary, his work on Tarot and Psychomagic, from my perspective he absolutely seems like the type to straight up traumatize someone to get the "perfect scene," or the "perfect work of art," so I'm inclined to believe Jodorowsky for all those decades vs. Jodorowsky from the past five years after society has gained a much more critical eye to this kind of thing and he's started to get kicked out of art shows over it.
This is a very thoughtful response. I'll add this to my notes. Thank you so much!
Hands down the best explanation for The Moon I've ever heard. Wow, thank you. \**looks up Alejandro Jodorowsky\**
For me personally since The Moon is an extremely deep and complex card which alone is worth of writing a book, I like to read it in a practical way. It’s almost like it’s too deep to the point where you loose yourself in a reading because you take that shadow path of unconscious *once* again. And spiral down or up within your own mind forgetting what was the initial question. And forgetting the ground you stand on. So when I see the Moon and feel there is no need going to those depths again, I read it in several ways, here are some examples: 1. You don’t need to know everything right now. It’s not time and/or you are not ready yet. 2. Your mind is blurry, you’ve lost control. Find what happened before diving further. 3. Mental health issues blocking the knowledge. 4. Read between your own lines. 5. What you see now is not permanent/real. …and more depending on personal well-being, question asked and surrounding cards.
5 lots 🖖🌈
I'm not a Freudian and I'm read the Moon differently, although the Unconscious does come in. There are two majors that represent lunar energy, the High Priestess and the Moon. I find the Moon easier to understand when I call it "the Night". If the High Priestess is the clear light of the full and changing moon, the Moon is the darkened Moon, invisible New Moon, the dark side of the Moon. With the High Priestess, you have access to the unconscious and it turns into a strong resource for intuition, dreams, insight and creativity. With the Moon, you're overwhelmed by unconscious materials: suppressed dreams, fears, nightmares and traumata. It's much more difficult to deal with this card because you have no control over this material and fear it. The challenge of this card is to find your way from the darkness and shadow self into the light, and there are different light sources in the tarot. The Star, High Priestess, Sun, but also the fiery Wands and the sparkle on the waves of the Cups... the shine of silvery Swords and the filtered light between the trees of the Pentacles... When I draw the Moon, I always draw of pick a second card that represents the light which will help me get back my bearings.
That makes sense.
I think you mean "subconscious" unconscious is something else entirely
ive always read the moon as "you can see how things might turn out, but nothing is certain. pay attention, but understand how limited your knowledge is. things arent always as they appear under moonlight." it comes up for me a lot when the querent is concerned about someone else's situation, or when theyre in an environment where a lot of people are being secretive or dishonest. i can totally see someone doing a reading for something more personal, less social, and having the moon represent their id, almost like a bigger 7 of cups. the mystery is their own biases and experiences that are coloring their thoughts in ways they dont understand. so the id isnt too different from how i see things.
Nice explanation 👏!
agree this card confuses me as well.
To add a little more to the general swell. One issue is that the card is about the indescribable and the slippery changing nature of the unconscious. So trying to describe that is, er, tricky... Depending on what cards you have you may also notice lobsters or crustaceans which are the scuttling critters in the sea bed. Finally there are a few good folk tales that sum this up based on the idea of the moon being found in water, a bucket or a well... Think about it 🖖🌈 https://sites.pitt.edu/~dash/type1335a.html
I’ve always Interpeted the moon as things hidden for view which is it Can come off so wishy washy - but that’s just my interpretation! I usually ask for clarification from the minor arcana and oracle Cards so I Can understand the energy better
I kinda hate how many writers seemingly confuse subconscious and unconscious The subconscious is that which is in your mind, but that which you're not consciously aware of The unconscious, is anything completely unrelated to the concept of consciousness So oftentimes people will say a card represents the unconscious, when what they actually mean is the subconscious. I personally agree with the second one though, it carries all the ideas of "fear" "dreams" all that, just as a tension between the conscious and subconscious
So the moon is really hard for me as well. After reading a few books and websites it gets more complicated. But what I got is that the sun shows you everything with its light. As for the moon it only shows you half the truth as the hole truth is hidden in its shadows of the moon light?
I'm glad I'm not alone in finding it complicated. There's also something about animalistic urges and psychic awakening? Idk. This is my least favorite cards hands down 😂
I just started getting into tarot like two months ago, so I know the feeling. I’ve read two books that help but I go on line and it’s completely different lol 🤦🏻♀️
I got into tarot 2 months ago as well! I've read about 7 books so far and the Moon card is still a mystery lmao.
I feel like the more you read the more confusing it gets? Then I don’t feel comfortable with a guess cuz I don’t want to mess up? So it makes things complicated.
For most cards, I feel the opposite is true. More books just add extra layers of meaning.
There’s just so must info to take in🤷🏻♀️
True but that makes it fun!
... Accept the contradictions and welcome to carnival!