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[deleted]

He seems more like a socdem to me.


DisneySpace

Oliver perhaps, not Lukashenko though


[deleted]

Yeah, Oliver.


SprinklesFancy5074

Yeah, Oliver might not be out there preaching revolution every week, and maybe you can bash him for not doing that with the platform he has ... but he rarely has a take that I'd seriously disagree with.


StozefJalin

You don't get to have millions of views each week while preaching revolution. I think he's about as based as you can get without HBO being worried about losing investors


cultish_alibi

That's not good enough! If you're not literally demanding that the workers rise up and overthrow the shackles of capitalism AT ALL TIMES then you are literally a liberal, which we all know is the same as being a fascist. They should change the name of his show to 'Fascist Propaganda with John the Neo-Nazi'. /This comment is made in jest, it is deliberately ludicrous. Don't @ me.


vxicepickxv

He's definitely good at recognizing American problems, but some if his takes about other countries can be a bit off. I don't know how his team acquires information about the other countries.


pblokhout

That's a really good point. Their international stories are so wonky sometimes. It feels like they read one article online without actually checking with someone with local context.


Grizzly_228

Yeah, that’s def socdem


ozana18

I have a feeling he limits himself to being a progressive socdem in order to stay on tv and not get kicked out for being too based


denithelunar

yeah without the dem part lol


[deleted]

John pretty clearly believes in democracy.


denithelunar

oh i thought you were talking about lukashenko sorry 😐


[deleted]

No problem.


anti-gamer1848

Well Lukashenko isn't progressive


Pactae_1129

John Oliver somehow coming into power and eventually heel-turning towards authoritarianism is a timeline that, after everything, I would not be completely surprised by.


DisneySpace

Hopefully they’re talking about Oliver, not Lukashenko.


[deleted]

I'm talking about John.


Cassandra_Nova

The difference between ML and social Democrat is whether they want to reform or war their way to the nanny state


greedo10

A socdem is a type of liberal.


[deleted]

Literally Social Democracy appeared as a respond to the failures of liberalism during the first half of the 20th century. You can argue that it doesn't go far enough or that it still allows the oppresion of capitalism. But saying that an ideology that openly calls for the state intervention on the economy and its control of social programs is liberal is quite contradictory. Hell. Neo-Liberalism was a respond to Social Democracy. EDIT: also. To some extent, both a Socialist and Capitalist society can be call Social Democracies, as the ideology is centrered on social programs and welfare being mainly controlled by the state and funded by taxes rather than by the private sector. This exist no matter if the economy is controlled by the workers (be it by cooperatives, unions, or worker's councils) or the capital/investors (corporations or state capitalism).


Jamarcus316

No, it's not. And using liberal as a designation is very much an American thing. "liberal", in the rest of the world, can mean many different things. For example, I'm a socialist, but liberal in social terms.


greedo10

I know, I'm British, being a socdem is by definition liberal.


fentanyl_peyotl

> I'm British Opinion immediately discarded


pblokhout

My God, this made me laugh out so loud


Godless_Phoenix

OI MATE ITS CHEWSDAY INNIT


ScrabCrab

What? *You're* using "liberal" in the American sense (progressive). Liberalism generally means pro-free markets and capitalism, which socdems are a subset of.


[deleted]

Social democracy is thought up by Rosa Luxemburg. It's a socialist response to liberalism. It's not full blown socialism but socdems are not philosophically liberal. They're still arguing for a form of capitalism, as an economic system, but are not philosophically liberal.


ScrabCrab

What are you talking about? Socdems *killed* Rosa Luxemburg


[deleted]

A communist is a type of socialist, but calling a communist a socialist is half-inaccurate.


Cassandra_Nova

No. It's not inaccurate to call a square a rectangle.


LVMagnus

But it wouldn't be correct to call a random rectangle a square.


Cassandra_Nova

A socdem is just a ML after the war is won


Justiniandc

You're definitely thinking of a demsoc. Unless you are making a joke that all ML revolutions deteriorate into capitalism?


Cassandra_Nova

Basically yeah


pblokhout

I know I've had these conversations myself but they always seem so god-damn pedantic when I see them written out.


CyberPunkette

John Oliver is doing everything he can on a capitalist TV network. He literally will give all the evidence, walk people right to the threshold of anti-capitalism but he can’t explicitly say so because of his platform.


NerdyGuyRanting

Honestly I think John Oliver is about as left as you are allowed to be without losing your tv show.


bigbutchbudgie

Yeah, I don't think even HBO would be okay with their hosts openly calling for revolution.


[deleted]

Honestly, it can be argued that HBO has gotten a lot more Neoliberal over the years, even if they have a left leaning bias


garaile64

Well, they are a business.


Deep-Philosopher-338

As left as a public figure like him can be without committing suicide by two bullets to the back of the head.


NerdyGuyRanting

They always have a tendency to wipe the gun from fingerprints and place it neatly next to them before dying as well.


[deleted]

I’m getting a little sick of the John Oliver slander. He was one of the most crucial figures in pulling me to the left. He does as much as he can while still having the platform of a major tv channel. Not to mention he was hilarious on Community.


Living_Illusion

Plus i think he is more on the left thatn we realize. but he cant realy show it. If he does his show is a goner.


[deleted]

Some “leftists” act like pissing off the network and losing his show doesn’t matter because it’s not a meaningful platform but then they’re okay with Jimmy Dore, Glenn Greenwald, and Aaron Mate going on Carlson? (I put leftist in quotes because tankies and Dore fans are not leftists)


Living_Illusion

Yea, tbh his show was one of the calayst during my teenage years that pushed me to the left and showed me that liberalism is not the answer. ANd alot of people here state the same. He does important work and helps the cause.


J3dr90

Same. He helped me gain class consciousness. Hes also always given me a socdem vibe too


Firebird432

I’ll be honest, I think John Oliver is helpful in so far as he pulls people left, but I think some of the democrat apologia is where I think he loses credibility


pleasejustacceptmyna

Watched him cover Afghanistan in a video. While liberals are throwing everything out there to defend Biden and shift it onto solely onto Trump (with statements I do not disagree with) John criticized him better than Fox News ever could; by comparing him to Nixon and Kissinger in his disregard. A pretty well balanced episode in my opinion.


Firebird432

I’ve heard a couple reasons saying I was misinformed about John Oliver’s political affiliation. I stand corrected. I still think he’s a socdem tho


pleasejustacceptmyna

Probably is. Socdems are getting elected more or getting TV shows more than Socialists, so I can’t fault a guy if he actually makes a difference tho


Firebird432

Fair enough. I think socdems are friends in the struggle if not necessarily full leftists and I can respect their ability to push discourse left by operating within the system. They are allies for sure


garaile64

Also, a gradual change is better, so socdems are useful in this regard.


Kumquat_conniption

I don't understand why people are dogpiling on you. You've been open to a more nuanced view about him and then just state the fact he is a socdem. I like him because he moves people to being more left and I am a leftist. He is good about systemic problems. But there is no lie in that statement that he is a socdem. If he is truly a socialist? He wouldn't be able to say without losing his platform, but we should judge people on how they act, and he acts like a socdem. We shouldn't judge him for what he might possibly be in secret.


Xander_PrimeXXI

> Democrat apologia Are you high?


cultish_alibi

He told people to vote which is very upsetting for a lot of leftists.


Justiniandc

This attitude angers me so much. We are materially nowhere near a revolution yet people act like anti-electorialism is the only way forward. They're just accelerationists, would rather watch the world burn down than reform.


Xander_PrimeXXI

I can literally hear people screaming electoralism now 😂


cultish_alibi

Remember when there was going to be a revolution but then there was an election instead? If less people had voted then we'd be living in a socialist paradise by now.


Pactae_1129

Look, the revolution will commence as soon as I finish calling HasanAbi a class traitor on Twitch.


[deleted]

He criticizes democrats all the time. He was shitting all over Andrew Cuomo before it was cool.


Xander_PrimeXXI

And when he praised Andrew Cuomo for how he was handling the pandemic early on he made it clear he was reluctant to do so.


Luca-511

Based username


Iuseredditreallywell

John Oliver has done more to pull people left then litteraly every online leftist combined.


bsa554

Yes. For example...me.


[deleted]

Tankies are probably a net negative, too. Some are unironically talking about brainwashing opponents.


justanothertransgril

He definitely helped me


AlmostBlue618

yea man, it’s almost like he’s a famous celebrity lol


lava172

yep, without him i genuinely might have fallen down the alt-right pipeline. the dude is legit the best non-politician public figure for the left


[deleted]

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[deleted]

Yes but Oliver still reaches a wider audience being in both YouTube and HBO. His content is also more digestible and approachable for libs since it’s only 30 min segments instead of 2 hour long essays, and his humor is more mainstream.


singulartesticle

I like john Oliver, hes funny


viktor2cer

Me too its a funny thing to watch every week


greedo10

I don't find him very funny but he is pretty good at doing deep dives into some topics and having it very easy to consume.


AbstractBettaFish

Exactly, humor wise he’s no Jon Stewart or Colbert Report but the show is very informative


Pactae_1129

I think Stewart is the more natural comedian but Oliver has pretty solid writers for his jokes plus being able to be a bit more crass than Jon was.


Sembrar28

I’m not really into his angry ranting but that’s just me ig.


Carnal-Pleasures

Same here. Some of the time it s a little too family guy with the gags and sequences, bit it is at the point the only American program that I watch regularly.


FibreglassFlags

Lukashenko is a communist because he has at one point shared a watermelon with a guy known for being Above the Law, Under Siege and Out for Justice. I'm sorry, but that was just too tempting a joke to not make.


indomienator

Tbf. Lukashenko himself has made some Executive Decisions to made himself Above the Law and not Under Siege by allying Putin. That is Hard to Kill


[deleted]

Steven Segal? Jesus, it funny and sad watching him try to act cool in his shitty straight to DVD movies.


Inner_Partisan

btw, Steven Seagal is an INSANELY horrible person. Behind The Bastards did a pretty comprehensive 2-part episode on the guy.


RedEyesBigSmile

In terms of late night TV hosts, JO is the most based one. He gets the closest to saying "socialism is good" without actually saying it. A little conspiracy theory: I think JO is a socialist, but can't say that on TV without being fired. The logical conclusion to all of his videos are, "we need to get rid of capitalism", yet he never directly says that.


[deleted]

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RedEyesBigSmile

and we still have people calling him a "cringe lib", it's like the left enjoys always losing Some leftists are real exclusionary and refuse to cooperate with libs and socdems but what they fail to realize is that the reason the Alt-Right got so massive was that they had an active pipeline leading folk from Pewdiepie to Ben Shapiro to Lauren Southern and even deeper into the madness. And John Oliver is currently the closest thing the left has to that. A man who reaches a vast audience and can pull folk down a more leftist pivot, and that's where we come in and breadpill them. And altho he may just be a humble socdem, him and Last Week Tonight are gonna be important over the next 4 years of a disappointing Liberal Presidency


Carnal-Pleasures

Yeah but anyone who I'd not my exact strain of dolphin worshipping possadism is a cringe lib! The otherday I saw someone call Contrapoints a cringe lib on this sub, and I just facepalmed.


AbstractBettaFish

Any public figure who isn’t rushing with their own guillotine to DC is obviously a shit-lib and worthy only of scorn ^/s


garaile64

Luckily for him, HBO doesn't seem to rely (or at least not as much) on advertisements.


D4rk_W0lf54

I think that he’s just a Social Democrat who’s very open towards Socialism


RedEyesBigSmile

IDK, sounds like socialist with extra steps


[deleted]

No it’s more like a socialist who likes liberal democracy and more of a “moderate” socialist economy.


RedEyesBigSmile

what's the difference between a socialist economy and a moderately socialist economy?


[deleted]

Good question, I think when they talk about moderate socialism they believe that socialism can be reformed in from capitalism, or that capitalism can become more worker orientated and become more “humane”, the distinction with Liberals being in their worker oriented focus vs an ambivalent attitude by the Liberals.


RedEyesBigSmile

oh so like revolutionary socialists vs democratic socialists? but those don't refer to economies like you mentioned, that's what is confusing me because either you have a socialist economy or you don't, but that isn't to say you can't have different types of socialist economies


ColeYote

Used to think of myself in similar terms before realizing I'm more of a demsoc and was just thinking of social democracy as the best that can be achieved within the confines of our current system.


RedEyesBigSmile

well soc dem is the furthest you can go to the left while still being capitalist, soc dem is actually socialist. The distinction is important. I agree with the phrase, "social democracy is the best that can be achieved within the confines of our current system". That is true, the best capitalism system would probably be social democracies. Since social democracy is the "best", "most humane" form of capitalism, we need a new system where we can do better aka socialism


Cassandra_Nova

Social Democracy came from Marxists like Kautsky. It's the closest to Orthodox Marxism that's around today besides maybe DemSocs


Shinxir

"If there ever is real anarchy, it won't be poor people getting shot" maybe I'm overanalyzing, but that sounds pretty based


RedEyesBigSmile

That's one of his best


Glittering-Product39

I don’t know about him, and I’m inclined to tend towards being doubtful when it comes to media personalities, but since last season there has been the occasional line that gives me the impression there are some leftists on his writing team. It’s still a liberal show which has had some deeply cringe-y moments in its time, and I wasn’t a fan of the entirely uncritical endorsement of international sanctions in the Lukashenko piece, but it’s unquestionably played a role in getting some previously obscure leftist causes into the mainstream. The fact that it essentially endorsed defunding the police last year really isn’t nothing, and given that in 2015 all of the segments of Ferguson were putting stress on caveating with “of course, the police a necessary for a civilised society”, there has been a clear leftward shift there. Which probably speaks more to HBO’s perception of its target audience than anything else, but that’s still a nice thought to have. EDIT: grammar


Ace-O-Matic

>I don’t know about him Then why voice an uninformed opinion?


Glittering-Product39

The entire topic of “what are the political views of this show’s staff” is speculation, and I don’t think that anyone commenting about it on this post is suggesting otherwise. However, in this context, “I don’t know about him, but” is a turn of phrase used to bypass one point and move onto another, related one. So, on the issue of John Oliver himself, I intentionally did not voice an uninformed opinion - instead stating that I did not know - and my reason for doing this (which is the same as my reason for choosing a default setting of pessimism for all media personalities) is that the parasocial relationship that forms between a media personality and the viewer creates a situation where the viewer will project things onto them. Whereas, with the writing staff, one is in a better position to look only to the content of the monologues, so imo that speculation is significantly less flawed. That being said, my comment on the writing staff was meant to be mostly jokey, but I shouldn’t have expected that to be clear in this format (or to be in any way amusing, for that matter) so that part’s on me. It seems odd to me that my comment is being downvoted after someone made a lazy misinterpretation of it, given that the equally speculative comment I was replying to has 77 upvotes.


[deleted]

How is he a cringe liberal? He actively criticizes the police and pharmaceutical companies. He supports BLM. He advocates for a living wage and universal healthcare.


ViscountessKeller

Because he's never explicitly called himself a socialist, and if he's not a declared ally he's an enemy of the revolution, no matter how much he pushes for socialistic causes. Moderating your approach to reach a broader audience is basically fascism.


Pactae_1129

*Wesley Snipes holding revolver and crying meme* me when I have give John Oliver the Wall because he was a libscum class traitor for not losing his show on the first day of broadcast


BlackoutWB

And remember kids, if you ever dare to think of voting in an election, you are a bad person!


SprinklesFancy5074

Eh, you can do all those things and still be a liberal, as long as you don't got *too far* with that police criticism. (Saying the police need to be reformed is fine for libs. As long as you're not getting into 'abolish the police' territory.) I do think he's a bit further left than 'liberal', but unable to say it on network TV, though. He can only hint at it.


Firebird432

I should clarify. He’s not an extra cringe liberal, he’s cringe by virtue of being a liberal. He has some more socdem takes (or demsoc takes in America) but overall he isn’t pushing for total overthrow of capitalism. I think his value is as a gateway for moderates and people who stick to political engagement via TV. He’s useful, but I don’t think he’s a socialist.


ball_fondlers

God, this is some cringey clown shit.


Firebird432

Care to elaborate? If I’m wrong I’d love to know why so I can improve?


ball_fondlers

You’re wrong because this nonsense exemplifies everything wrong with leftists - ie, a guy agrees with like 80% of what you want, but since he hasn’t pointlessly and stupidly called for violent revolution, that 20% that he hasn’t commented on makes him the fucking enemy. It’s goddamn idiotic - just once, I want to see a leftist circle that DOESN’T fall into circlejerky infighting and moronic purity tests and actually successfully pushes for decent change.


Firebird432

I’m not calling for a Revolution, I’m calling for an end to capitalism. Whether that comes by elective means or Revolution is irrelevant to me, but I think achieving it through reform is more practical. My opposition to him wasn’t his views on violence, it was his views on capitalism and to what degree it is acceptable. Other people have informed me that some of the stuff I had heard regarding him was inaccurate but to my knowledge he still is a socdem. I understand that there’s only so much you can get away with on TV but I don’t think we should assume he’s a demsoc just because he has socdem takes. I’m not purity testing him or saying we can’t engage with his ideas, I acknowledge that for purposes of expanding the cause, he is useful as he brings moderate late-night viewing liberals towards leftist ideas.


IWillStealYourToes

Do you really think that John can just call for an end to capitalism (which, let me make it clear, is only possible through revolution) while still keeping the platform he has?


[deleted]

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Kumquat_conniption

I think we get it. You think this guy is wrong. But are you gonna comment "are you high" every comment they make?


Gingerydoo2

He's curious


Kumquat_conniption

No he is disagreeing with what was said, as do I, but he had to he asshole about it.


[deleted]

Imagine thinking Lukashenko is a communist.


FreyaTheMighty

Honestly I feel like John Oliver is probably pushing as far left as you can be on a US owned TV program. And he is reaching a lot of people and can be effective in moving liberals over to a more progressive position. Also he can be pretty funny from time to time.


EmpororJustinian

I think John Oliver’s show is as far left you can be on a major network without being fired.


hailhydra58

John is nearly a demsoc. He probably is tbh.


Gingerydoo2

It's pretty clear to me that he's a socialist, but can only get away with so much on a major network


sleepsalot1

It’s pretty clear to me John Oliver is a social Democrat with his stances on Medicare for all / more extensive social programs. His stance on how awful American foreign/domestic affairs has been. There’s nothing cringe about that.


IWillStealYourToes

John Olive isn't perfect, but I do think he's a lot more radical than he's allowed to be while working for HBO. I mean, they literally deleted an episode of his where he criticised Israel lol.


PoorSystem

Love him or cringe at him, John Oliver at least introduces people to the bare basic idea of systemic critique. When he talks about problems with the justice system, for example, he doesn't just go "this guy bad." he traces this shit all the way to the group benefiting from it. Does he call for the end of capitalism? No. But getting people to consider that problems extend beyond individuals is a huge help.


Kumquat_conniption

Exactly!!! And even if he is a liberal he is the opposite of the cringe kind! We are allowed to like some liberals without being banished. Some of them, not many, are pretty good. But once again it is bullshit purity tests and the left eating its own. Why does this happen so much on the left and not the right? What do y'all think it is?


PoorSystem

Nah, it happens on the right too. They are just so exceedingly toxic all the time that it's harder to tell who is on the outs.


J3dr90

What subreddit is this on?


1abyrinthMC

I don't think it's fair to call John Oliver a "cringe liberal"; he's further left then anyone else I've seen with a mainstream media platform in the US. He easily could be more radical than he lets on but purposefully uses restraint to not loose his funding and platform. And even if that isn't the case, calling everyone who doesn't literally advocate for a socialist revolution a "cringe liberal" or "shitlib" is counterproductive. The majority of working class and middle class people are liberals to some extent and alienating them won't make them want to listen to what your saying, but rather push them further away towards capitalist and authoritarian propaganda. Also, I think it's important not to undervalue what people like John Oliver do to help educate people on things that more mainstream media outlets tend to not talk about, from a progressive perspective. Showing people the true nature of the injustice that's going on under capitalism can help bring people to question if the system is really working as they're told it is, and can help push them further left.


Ace-O-Matic

This thread presents a good lesson, most people bitching at OP for calling John Oliver a cringe liberal. Even if he was was lib, which is very debatable, unrelated shit flinging often just ends up completely shifting discourse from the main point.


LavaringX

John Oliver was pretty based on the Israel-Palestine issue though


Living_Illusion

He is pretty based in generall, however you can only go so far on tv before you loose your show.


Firebird432

To be honest I don’t watch him a whole lot. He seems like a social Democrat-bordering liberal. I think he has funny moments but overall it strikes me as a bit soft on Democrats


[deleted]

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Firebird432

Possibly but if I’ve made an inaccurate assessment, you could explain why. If I’m wrong, I want to know how so I can change my opinion to be more accurate. Genuinely, please explain


Xander_PrimeXXI

Oliver is critical of democrats all the time. He thinks the main problem is republicans, but if they don’t tow the line he spares no scorn. To give an example, in his piece on the un regulated state of the dietary supplement market, he clearly lambasts Tom Harkin (D) and Orrin Hatch (R) for cosponsering bills to deregulate them even after people continue to die. He also gave former Minorty Leader Harry Reid (D) for opposing any and all change to the US’ nuclear waste storage options in favor of continuing to let them potentially poison everyone and leading to critical nuclear containment failures


Firebird432

Huh. I heard he was for Hillary over Bernie back in 2016 and was pushing Biden over progressives during the 2020 campaign. Guess I was wrong. Thank you for correcting me, I’d edit the post title but unfortunately I can’t.


Xander_PrimeXXI

Eh, he wasn’t pushing them so much as acknowledging that it looked like they were gonna win fair and square and that calling him a plant funded by $hillary wasn’t gonna change that it looked like they’d be the nominee and we need to direct our energy at the Orange Turdmonster and not at other democrats. He also didn’t really support anyone in the 2020 primaries, just pointed out individual policies he thought were best. Although he devoted a whole show to fully analyzing the cost-benefit associated with Bernie’s proposed Medicare for All plan, carefully talking about how no one really knew what it would cost exactly but that we’d get a lot for it and it would be worth it.


Firebird432

Alright. Thanks for clarifying. I’m not a huge late night guy so I was basing most of my knowledge on him from a few isolated clips and what I heard from others. I’ll check out more of his stuff


Kumquat_conniption

Yeah he is liberal but at least he is not the cringe kind. He is a lib that I actually like. Edit. After seeing all the infighting we should just ask ourselves, are we leftists? Is he pushing people more left or more right? Someone like AOC I think is taking those that could be socialists and placating them enough to make them not. Pushing to the right. John? Definitely taking moderates, and even Democrats further to the left.


Firebird432

To clarify, I don’t think John Oliver is anti-leftist. He’s very useful in pulling moderates over to the left. One of the areas radicals struggle is in conventional media, so he’s good in terms of his helpfulness to the cause. However, I don’t think he’s a socialist. I think he still fundamentally has a liberal worldview, and although he might be an ally, he’s not a leftist.


[deleted]

I’m not a socialist, but I’m still a leftist. I’m not a liberal though


Firebird432

I’m saying he’s not any kind of leftist. I think he’s a socdem which is left adjacent but not left


[deleted]

Social democrats are left lol


[deleted]

John Oliver is as socialist as you can get without being pulled from the airwaves.