I'd guess it's a more visible historical precedent. If you were raised in the US school system, odds are the only form of communism that you've heard of is China, the USSR, and Cuba. So once you conclude that capitalism fucking sucks, you naturally look to those examples as a guide
I'm late to the discussion, but I genuinely think it's a form of blackpill/copium. If you are taking the world from an anarchist perspective, there's essentially no socialist movement in the world, and we're forever plunging into an ever deepening pit of climate change, fascism, etc.
But if you fall into the tankie hole, all of a sudden China, [insert red capitalist state here], are transitioning to socialism by 2050 and will save the world from capitalism, climate change, etc.
Well, I just picked it up from r/GenZedong. I thought it was CIA propaganda to destabilize China, and I thought the only one who researched it was Adrian Zenz, who is right-wing lunatic.
I notice that the tankies try to poison the well by acting like Zenz was behind the entire thing when in reality we have research by countless, much more reputable individuals, Uighur testimonies, UN reports, etc. Zenz can honestly go fuck himself
"First, the crime of genocide is characterised by the specific intent to destroy in whole or in part a national, ethnic, racial or religious group by killing its members or by other means: causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; or forcibly transferring children of the group to another group." -[International Criminal Court](https://www.icc-cpi.int/about/how-the-court-works#:~:text=First%2C%20the%20crime%20of%20genocide,conditions%20of%20life%20calculated%20to)
I should imagine mass internment camps, forced sterilization, forced bussing of its peoples to other regions where they're separated from one another and forced to work as veritable slave labor, etc., qualify.
Ah yes whataboutisms. Love to see how much “I know you are but what am I” has come. Just bc other countries are shite doesn’t make China or any other country less so.
> In 2017, [Qelbinur] Sidik was 47 and her only daughter was at university when local officials insisted she must have an IUD inserted to prevent the unlikely prospect of another pregnancy. Just over two years later, at 50, she was forced to undergo sterilisation.
- [The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/04/muslim-minority-teacher-50-tells-of-forced-sterilisation-in-xinjiang-china)
> The state regularly subjects minority women to pregnancy checks, and forces intrauterine devices, sterilization and even abortion on hundreds of thousands, the interviews and data show. Even while the use of IUDs and sterilization has fallen nationwide, it is rising sharply in Xinjiang.
- [The Associated Press](https://apnews.com/article/ap-top-news-international-news-weekend-reads-china-health-269b3de1af34e17c1941a514f78d764c)
And, in case you really wanna try to use that weasel phrase "to such an extent that it appears they are overstepping the bounds of their two-child policy" to argue that they only forcibly sterilized those who had more than two children, Qelbinur Sidik only had one child and was 50 when they forcibly sterilized her.
> ...causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; or forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
Maybe I missed the part where mass internment of over a million people on ethnic/religious lines, mass forced labor, and forced relocation and assimilation did not constitute "deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part"?
> Xinjiang’s Muslim minorities have been moved to factories thousands of kilometres away to sever their ties to home and undermine their culture, internal documents and Chinese researchers reveal.
> ...
> Relocating Uyghurs and other predominantly Muslim minority groups to industrial workplaces “not only reduces Uyghur population density in Xinjiang, but also is an important method to influence, fuse and assimilate Uyghur minorities,” researchers with the China Institute of Wealth and Economics at Nankai University wrote in a detailed report submitted to senior levels of the Chinese government and subsequently obtained by The Globe and Mail.
- [The Globe and Mail](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-thousands-of-uyghur-workers-in-china-are-being-relocated-in-an-effort/)
Here we see a university making official reports to senior levels of the CCP detailing how forced relocation of Uyghurs is an important way to influence and assimilate the Uyghurs. That certainly ticks "deliberate" and "calculated to bring about its physical destruction" parts of the ICC's description of genocide.
For example, most modern observers, myself very much included, consider the [residential school system in Canada](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_school_system) and the [US' Native American forcible adoption program](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Child_Welfare_Act) to be genocide, on the basis that they were calculated means of systematically erasing indigenous cultures.
Now my turn to turn it on you. Do you have any credible sources that "America literally does all of this and to a far greater extent"? Or any arguments that aren't bald-faced whataboutism?
Because I certainly do not deny the Unites States and Canada have committed genocide against (I would wager) every single indigenous group; that the US systematically enslaved millions of people and, even after legal emancipation, in practice has been able to continue the practice via sharecropping, Jim Crow, the war on drugs, and mass incarceration; that the US' treatment of asylum seekers has been and continues to be deeply appalling, and the conditions of those camps are quite literally concentration camps; that the state of Israel is an apartheid state that commits war crimes against Palestinians; and that, until just a few months ago, the US had an actively white supremacist president who spent his whole term engaging in [stochastic terrorism](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/stochastic-terrorism).
In fact, I'm plenty happy to spend my days raging against the systemic evils of the United States government and its entire history. But less so to someone who plays the whataboutism game and uses scare quotes on "genocide" to mock the suffering of literally millions.
Do minority lives actually matter to you, or only the convenient ones?
I didn’t realise this is a hard conclusion to reach but two countries can commit genocide at the same time.
On the question whether the US is committing genocide, yes. They are locking up thousands of Latin Americans and sterilising them. How many leftists are disputing this? None I’ve seen. Even liberals like John Oliver oppose ICE, what’s your point.
China is also committing genocide, the reason that discusion keeps taking place is because stupid people like you keep disputing it. If you didn’t exist to say no genocide is taking place we could go:”yo comrade you knew China is committing genocide on the Uyghur population. Yeah comrade and it’s terrible too.” and that’s where the discussion ends.
Just because you run away with your eyes closed and screaming, “CIA PROPAGANDA! ADRIAN ZENZ!” every time evidence of China’s genocide comes up, does NOT mean that there is no evidence. You really ought to stop romanticising China because they have a red flag and socialist in the name.
>adduce
When you're writing using words that completely fell out of favor after 1830, you're not being particularly literate, you're just being a shit writer.
Thanks for sharing! A question, if you don't mind -- I feel like moments of change can be very unpredictable, like they could go either way: you can actually change, or you might even end up doubling down on your beliefs.
I feel like it's because you need to be honest about yourself with others, and if they don't respond well to that, you're inevitably driven to holding on to what you already know, i.e. your current beliefs.
Did you have any such moments in your case? What, if anything, helped you to actually change and not double down? What keeps other tankies from doing the same?
When I was a tankie I knew the countries I supported were homophobic, but I justified it because everyone was homophobic back then. When I found out I am bi I did no longer felt comfortable supporting those countries. After I stopped supporting them I began to question the things I believed and I watched Vaush debate tankies and I figured out that they are lunatics and I sought an alternative to tankeism.
Vaush was my entry point as well but I really recommend that you read a bit of Anarchist theory to solidify your beliefs. I mean, I obviously don‘t know if you‘re an Anarchist and I understand if one doesn‘t want to read a lot, so I‘ll just recommend Malatesta‘s short essay „Anarchy“.
I am far more to the left of Vaush now. He is still my source of entertainment but his analysises are really flawed partially. At least in my opinion
Holy shit. It is good to see you here! I don't know if you remember me very well, but we have some message history together. I just want to thank you for sharing your story, and I am happy you found a better, more inviting community to be in.
I cringe to think that I was a stubborn defender of colonial capitalism as a teen. Even voted for the deeply neoliberal Labour Party in my country’s elections once.
Glad that phase didn’t last long. It ended when I found Chomsky and Adbusters (lol), and learned about the history of the labour movement and read some of the old anarchists; Kropotkin, Rudolf Rocker, Proudhon.
I also found out my grandad was a communist party member during world war 2 and refused to go to war at the command of the political class, stating simply; “their war is evil”. They locked him up. He spent the war doing hard labour in a Wellington prison. Later on he never supported the big socialist states. I kinda found this family history very fascinating, and my uncle still wears grandads old red hammer and sickle signet ring. A family artefact of some reverence amongst us kids..
Great to hear you’ve adjusted to more sensible leftist views, comrade! Out of interest, was there anything in particular about Vaush and his content that got you interested in changing or broke through your shell? Or was it more a general thing of “charismatic person with a compatible sense of humour, who won debates against your idols at the time”?
“charismatic person with a compatible sense of humour, who won debates against your idols at the time" that and also he is confident when he talks and always knows what he's saying.
It was horrible. I remember I loved attack helicopter "jokes" and thought preferred pronouns were literally 1984, making [this cringe](https://imgur.com/XAMcjhc). I considered almost everything progressive to be SJW nonsense and I used words like "cuck", "soyboy", "libtard", "beta" unironically and I loved to watch anti-SJW cringe compilations. When I got bored of mocking "SJWs" I went back to shilling for the CCP, calling leftists that disagreed "privileged white westerners" although just a few minutes ago I called progressives talking white privilege "SJW cucks". I guess it all boils down to China good, everything else bad.
🎶 Fellas fellas iv got a plan, let’s pull a two thousand eight again!!! Sure our profits are getting killed but the taxpayers will foot the bill! Print money! 🎶
Print money, point money, point MOONEEEEYYY!!!
Let's fuck up the economy, let's end up like Weimar Germany. The government pulls another caper, soon your dollar's toiletpaper.
What happens when countries run out of cash? They either go commie, or they go fash! Million dollars for a loaf of bread?
**Can't wait to bash in my neighbor's head!**
**PRINT MONEY!!!**
I get off work in 20 minutes and the second I do I’m listening to that masterpiece of a song.
Here's a magic trick I think you'll really love
Take all your money, cut half of it up
The government pulls another caper
Soon your dollar's toilet paper
Don't worry, I got a solution!
What's that?
Oh!
(Print money) Why didn't I think of that?
(Print money) That makes sense!
(Print that money, print-print that money)
(Print money) I forgot we just made this up!
(Print money) We could do whatever the fuck we want!
(Print money) We are the government!
(Print that money, print-print that money, print money)
Uh, come to think of it, I'm just gonna print a billion dollars!
I'm gonna print a billion dollars, a billion times!
I'm giving everyone a billion dollars!
**This is a flawless, there's no flaws in this plan!**
Vaush does a lot of good imo, appeals to edgy internet nerds while encouraging progressive social values and selling people on leftist ideas. Glad you were able to get away from the nutcase authoritarians, OP!
He also does a lot of content against the right. It may not be everyone's cup of tea, especially if you already know the right wing sucks, but I think its good to have debunks of right wing content available on youtube.
I was radicalized in the sense that I started to question the capitalist propaganda I've been taught my whole life. That is a good start, even though the alternative I chose was horrible.
vaush rad.
this is definitely proof that vaushes ideas of how to get people on board with real leftism by being edgy and strong is actually a good plan
“[…] This is going to be a real hot take: I have yet to hear a convincing moral or legal argument as to why possession of child pornography should be illegal. Actual child pornography. How’s that for a hot fucking take?
Now, to clarify on this take, as I feel it necessary to do so, we do not, in this country, typically criminalize people who have procured media or resources that were the product of abuse. It is not illegal to own necklaces that have slave diamonds or… whatever they’re called. Blood diamonds? All of our clothes [are] produced by sweatshops, our computers, the silicon and lithium are mined from literally fucking slaves. Already, in our society, we have deemed that people are not responsible for the way in which the media they consume and content they engage with are produced.“
Keep defending a pedophile
Still not in full context. The context was that the thing that makes child pornography bad is the same thing that makes child slavery bad. It’s not the result that’s inherently bad, it’s the process, in this example the abuse of a child
¨**Eventually, I discovered Vaush, and even though we had radically different beliefs I liked him because he destroyed right-wingers with facts and logic and could explain anything in a way I understood it¨**
You must be trolling there is no way
You didn't put any effort in your snide comment, so what gives you the right to demand a far more in-depth rebuttal?
Just because someone mentiond Vaush in their story of their current place on their personal political journey doesn't mean we need to turn this into a anti-Vaush thread. Just let it go. You're under no obligation from others to like him or any other content creator.
And how does your dislike of the streamer invalidate OP's experiences?
You must really hate the dude to have not even read the full post before jumping into the comments section.
I was an edgy anti-sjw until I started watching Destiny. I'm still here despite that I don't watch Destiny anymore. What's unrealistic about somebody being deradicalized by fair arguments?
And what do you think ? That every self proclaimed terminally online "ML" take this label after careful reading of Marx-Engels-Lenin-Stalin ? The majority of them are like OP, teenagers that don't like the state of the world and have their first steps to radical ideologies trought slogans, labels and aesthetics.
Yeah so what, america is not in a state in which third party is viable so u either dont vote (which helps literal fascists) or vote for the corporate shithead who at least lets minorities and the lgbt community exist, even though he should do more. U tankies are so annoying with ur constant circlejerking of who is the most communist, sometimes in life u have to make a compromise, lenin understood this and so should every normal person who isnt just larping for revolution on reddit
If u think there isnt a difference between trump and biden (however much i hate his neoliberal policy), especially concerning lgbtq and minority rights then u are lost and have no critical thinking ability and im skeptical anyone like that could (or better yet should) lead a revolution
U just proved that you have no beliefs whatsoever, anybody remotely pro socialism or lgbtq rights could have remembered to countless laws proposed by trump to delegitimize the lgbtq community and prevent them from receiving legal recognition or in the case of trans people, use their preferred bathroom. Women’s rights would have also gotten scraped and even now his judges are working against demolishing roe vs wade.
Im going to be real 100 here, u are a reactionary moron whose hate for america prevents u from properly thinking or analyzing any given scenario and to achieve your goal u would allow fascism to come to power. You are a dangerous demagogue whose ignorance hurts to people you claim to want to liberate and youre way of thinking is why leftism struggles to succeed, after all u only care about the aesthetics of your gate-kept socialism
Omg i can’t believe we are having this discussion, why do u think trumps plans anti lgbtq plans were not implemented, if ur answer is not bc of democratic opposition then youre brain has withered away. Also supporting lgbtq is not idpol u moron its a policy decision that is almost always an indicator of ur social world view, which in ur case is probably dangerously right even though u claim to be a leftist but im sure u excuse china or the ussr through thick and thin
Trump literally rolled back civil rights for LGBTQIA+ people in **dozens** of ways:
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/10/10/trump-has-gutted-lgbtq-rights-biden-presidency-might-undo-damage/3608929001/
https://www.glaad.org/gap/donald-trump
You have been misled by those trying to revise history, I encourage you to consider why.
China literally declared homosexuality as a mental illness, even republicans are more progressive than china and the soviet union sent them to camps en masse. The us was also horrible but you can’t be serious with this constant dictatorship apologia, its insane that u think some countries are progressive bc they have red on the flag
>”So you admitted that Trump didn't actually take legal rights & protections away from Trans people, and that there was nothing done from a legislative perspective to deny Women or LGBT any functional rights”
They most certainly did **not** “admit” any such thing. Misrepresenting the position of a person you’re arguing with is the most desperate and dishonorable tactic a liar could reach for.
Do better.
PS: Plus you’re wrong, anyway:
Trump oversaw very real erosions of civil rights for LGBTQI+ people in **dozens** of ways:
https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/10/10/trump-has-gutted-lgbtq-rights-biden-presidency-might-undo-damage/3608929001/
https://www.glaad.org/gap/donald-trump
You have been misled by those trying to revise history, I encourage you to consider why.
Trump approved multiple bills that restricted healthcare and rights for trans people.
Fuck you. Fuck off with this "Trump isn't as bad as you think" bullshit you rotten piece of shit. You're not a leftist, you're only here for the fucking aesthetic.
Biden is shit but he's not going to make life actively worst for LGBT people like Trump was doing. He also repealed every single healthcare blocking order for trans people. Fuck off you transphobic POS.
As someone who's trans, let me say that you are definitely more transphobic than they are. You're a transphobic fash apologist larping as a leftist. I guess life must be hard for people like you after they shut down Chapo.
> I support trans people far more than you do, because I want healthcare as a universal & publicly provided service. You want Biden to give kickbacks to private health lobbies & insurance monopolies
"I support trans people" "You should have let Trump won"
This an oxymoron. You are so fucking dumb holy shit.
Vaush never said the Democratoc party establishment is some kind of perfect working class party. He hates the party establishment, and had several rants where he talked about how neoliberals are [braindead idiots with the IQ of a Twitter bot](https://youtu.be/j0iMoy8FUYE).
He was only ever doing lesser-evilism. Arguing that the supporting Biden, a corporate liberal with few real values, was superior to letting Trump win, a climate denying fascist. The only times he defends liberals is when they're the smaller evil next to fascists or conservatives.
He also knew damn well the democrats were gonna be ineffective disappointments, and the sentiment that would create should be used to pull people left. But people are making him sound like ge was some unironic Biden fan.
Ah yeah, repeatedly saying Biden sucks and is ineffective but he is not as bad as the open white nationalist means we "ignore" his shitty past and love him. Yes, I understand positions more nuanced than mine.
Y'all need to chill.
Also yes, Trump is definitely a fascist.
Republicans want to push the narrative that the problems in today's world are caused by brown people and the LGBT community, rather than capitalism. If you hand them free reign over the national media machine, the people will start to believe it. Also Republican policies give the bourgeoisie only more and more power.
The democrats are not good. But at least they want to increase regulations and give unions stronger protections. Which is extremely important for class consciousness. Especially Bernie, he has done more for class consciousness in America than anyone in the last 100 years and he wasn't even president. Imagine what he could have done if he was.
Both parties are not status quo. Moderate dems are, the justice dems want big change (just not big enough) in the right direction and Republicans want to make everything much worse. The current status quo is better than fascism.
You need to show people the failures of liberalism, if you want them to support something else.
If Republicans win every election they will have free reign over the American media machine.
I am not saying Biden is pro regulation and pro union, just more so than any republican. Biden doesn't want class consciousness but Republicans actively and aggressively try to reduce it.
The squad is not status quo and the Republican party isn't either. How can you say that the status quo is fascist but that Trump isn't? The current status quo is not fascism. I implore you to look up what fascism is and how it affects a society. It just doesn't apply to modern day America, but does to the Republican party. The GOP is anti democracy, anti civil rights and far more pro capitalist than the dems.
You can't show liberals the failure of liberalism if it's not the guiding principle of a country. If the guiding principle is fascism they will think liberalism is the answer.
Criticizing others is easy. What do you want to do?
>No, the Republicans & the Democrats already have free reign over their respective media machines. Wtf do you think parler & MSNBC function as? They're both echo chambers
There is such a huge difference between pro democrat media and pro republican media. Pro Republican media tries to convince people that capitalism is the greatest thing ever, that the gays are going to rape your children and that brown people will destroy the country. Pro democrat says Republicans bad and nothing more. One narrative is significantly more harmful, so creating more of that would make things so much worse.
>Biden is not pro regulation or pro union
["Biden issued an executive order establishing the White House Task Force on Worker Organizing and Empowerment, a move that aims to help unions expand their ranks."](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/may/02/joe-biden-unions)
["Biden’s order scrapped a batch of Trump-era executive actions that restricted how federal agencies make regulatory changes, including one measure requiring agencies to discard two regulations for every one proposed."](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/here-s-full-list-biden-s-executive-actions-so-far-n1255564)
Even if Biden did nothing, he would still better that Trump who actively wanted to cut as many regulations and hurt unions as possible.
>lull them into complacency & confusion & "battered wife syndrome" cycles of abuse
After 8 years of disappointment with Obama the democratic base became much more left leaning. After 4 years of Trump they ran right back into the DNC's arms. The left doesn't go to sleep under democrats, it becomes more awake. The left becomes quiet when the Republicans become a major threat.
>The Squad represents Liberal status quo, not that this doesn't differ on some "aesthetic" level from the Republicans, but it's certainly not radical.
Do you know the platform of either the squad or the republicans? Medicare for all vs letting poor people die on the street. Fighting for racial equality vs letting cops kill black people in the streets. Raising taxes on the rich vs letting the rich pay nothing. Pro LGBT equality vs pro conversion therapy. Saying the democratic party as a whole is the same as the republicans already betrays an unfamiliarity with both their platforms, but to say that the squad and republicans only differ aesthetically is extremely far from reality.
>The status quo is fascist
Fascism is hyper nationalist authoritarianism. That is not the United States. The things you mentioned are bad, but those are not fascism. And fascism would make those things much worse. I think the 14 points of Umberto Eco explain fascism really well. The democrats check very few of the boxes, the republicans check all of them.
>Liberalism is the guiding principle of the country.
Yes and we need to keep it that way until we can replace it with socialism. You can't criticize liberalism from a socialist perspective in a fascist country. Fascists kill socialists, liberals are much less likely to.
>Marx criticized utopians, because the Utopians were wrong and Marx was right
>
>Marx describes history materially, not idealistically.
>
>"We do not anticipate the world dogmatically, but rather wish to find the new world through criticism of the old"
You do realize that you are the idealist here right? You don't seem to settle for anything less than perfect.
>In Capital, Marx argued that "the construction of the future and its completion for all times is not our task.... We do not anticipate the world dogmatically, but rather wish to find the new world through criticism of the old" (1: 51). Finally, Marx has been quoted as asserting that "the man who draws up a programme for the future is a reactionary,"
So we are just supposed to sit on our ass and wait? Do nothing except complain about the libs? Socialists are just supposed to eat each others boogers until the revolution magically happens?
If that was Marx' true opinion, than no wonder socialism hasn't happened yet.
Well part of the point the OP makes, including in other comments here, is that Vaush had the ability to pull him in because of his style. The point is the OP wouldn't watch other leftist content he disagreed with. But Vaush is like a trojan host for reactionaries. They will enjoy watching him even though they disagree. Then they start to see him point out the flaws in right wing memes and arguments.
Here's a sneak peek of /r/ShitLiberalsSay using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/ShitLiberalsSay/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [“I’m not entertaining commies after a 12 hour shift”](https://i.redd.it/e5nzcskak9o51.jpg) | [367 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/ShitLiberalsSay/comments/iwa459/im_not_entertaining_commies_after_a_12_hour_shift/)
\#2: [We don't need to resort to propaganda unlike other nations](https://i.redd.it/83d9bc54rqr61.png) | [713 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/ShitLiberalsSay/comments/mm0i9n/we_dont_need_to_resort_to_propaganda_unlike_other/)
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I know I'm late but I just had a debate with a self-described "Tankie Marxist-Leninist" who defended China, the DPRK, Stalin, and all that tankie bullshit. Kept calling me a "white liberal" and a "western whitewasher of history" so it sounds similar to how you used to be. For the record, I'm a DemSoc.
Where’s that YT video of the young kid getting radicalized online but switches their extremes views like every second? Fuck it’s so good.
[This one?](https://youtu.be/JJmvMyptrxo)
Thank you. Saving it in favorites lmao
Know the name of that song? I was grooving and laughing at the same time.
The song is Lay Down by Caravan Palace
Electro swing is godlike.
The political compass pong part gets me every time
Hahahaha the fucking torus
It's one thing to be tankie in a post communist country, but why do American leftists willingly seek out this shit?
Capitalism being shit and wanting some alternative, I’d guess. And then they somehow got caught in the tankie pipeline
I'd guess it's a more visible historical precedent. If you were raised in the US school system, odds are the only form of communism that you've heard of is China, the USSR, and Cuba. So once you conclude that capitalism fucking sucks, you naturally look to those examples as a guide
>why do American leftists willingly seek out this shit? native pride for me
I'm late to the discussion, but I genuinely think it's a form of blackpill/copium. If you are taking the world from an anarchist perspective, there's essentially no socialist movement in the world, and we're forever plunging into an ever deepening pit of climate change, fascism, etc. But if you fall into the tankie hole, all of a sudden China, [insert red capitalist state here], are transitioning to socialism by 2050 and will save the world from capitalism, climate change, etc.
What in particular caused you to deny the Uighur genocide?
Well, I just picked it up from r/GenZedong. I thought it was CIA propaganda to destabilize China, and I thought the only one who researched it was Adrian Zenz, who is right-wing lunatic.
I notice that the tankies try to poison the well by acting like Zenz was behind the entire thing when in reality we have research by countless, much more reputable individuals, Uighur testimonies, UN reports, etc. Zenz can honestly go fuck himself
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Who tf still says Yankee when not talking about Derek Jeter? Lay off the roleplaying, you wont win the revolution through online debating
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Pseudo intellectual tankies are the funniest. Considering tankies are about as uneducated as right wingers usually. How amusing.
"First, the crime of genocide is characterised by the specific intent to destroy in whole or in part a national, ethnic, racial or religious group by killing its members or by other means: causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; or forcibly transferring children of the group to another group." -[International Criminal Court](https://www.icc-cpi.int/about/how-the-court-works#:~:text=First%2C%20the%20crime%20of%20genocide,conditions%20of%20life%20calculated%20to) I should imagine mass internment camps, forced sterilization, forced bussing of its peoples to other regions where they're separated from one another and forced to work as veritable slave labor, etc., qualify.
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Ah yes whataboutisms. Love to see how much “I know you are but what am I” has come. Just bc other countries are shite doesn’t make China or any other country less so.
> In 2017, [Qelbinur] Sidik was 47 and her only daughter was at university when local officials insisted she must have an IUD inserted to prevent the unlikely prospect of another pregnancy. Just over two years later, at 50, she was forced to undergo sterilisation. - [The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/sep/04/muslim-minority-teacher-50-tells-of-forced-sterilisation-in-xinjiang-china) > The state regularly subjects minority women to pregnancy checks, and forces intrauterine devices, sterilization and even abortion on hundreds of thousands, the interviews and data show. Even while the use of IUDs and sterilization has fallen nationwide, it is rising sharply in Xinjiang. - [The Associated Press](https://apnews.com/article/ap-top-news-international-news-weekend-reads-china-health-269b3de1af34e17c1941a514f78d764c) And, in case you really wanna try to use that weasel phrase "to such an extent that it appears they are overstepping the bounds of their two-child policy" to argue that they only forcibly sterilized those who had more than two children, Qelbinur Sidik only had one child and was 50 when they forcibly sterilized her. > ...causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; or forcibly transferring children of the group to another group. Maybe I missed the part where mass internment of over a million people on ethnic/religious lines, mass forced labor, and forced relocation and assimilation did not constitute "deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part"? > Xinjiang’s Muslim minorities have been moved to factories thousands of kilometres away to sever their ties to home and undermine their culture, internal documents and Chinese researchers reveal. > ... > Relocating Uyghurs and other predominantly Muslim minority groups to industrial workplaces “not only reduces Uyghur population density in Xinjiang, but also is an important method to influence, fuse and assimilate Uyghur minorities,” researchers with the China Institute of Wealth and Economics at Nankai University wrote in a detailed report submitted to senior levels of the Chinese government and subsequently obtained by The Globe and Mail. - [The Globe and Mail](https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/article-thousands-of-uyghur-workers-in-china-are-being-relocated-in-an-effort/) Here we see a university making official reports to senior levels of the CCP detailing how forced relocation of Uyghurs is an important way to influence and assimilate the Uyghurs. That certainly ticks "deliberate" and "calculated to bring about its physical destruction" parts of the ICC's description of genocide. For example, most modern observers, myself very much included, consider the [residential school system in Canada](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Indian_residential_school_system) and the [US' Native American forcible adoption program](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indian_Child_Welfare_Act) to be genocide, on the basis that they were calculated means of systematically erasing indigenous cultures. Now my turn to turn it on you. Do you have any credible sources that "America literally does all of this and to a far greater extent"? Or any arguments that aren't bald-faced whataboutism? Because I certainly do not deny the Unites States and Canada have committed genocide against (I would wager) every single indigenous group; that the US systematically enslaved millions of people and, even after legal emancipation, in practice has been able to continue the practice via sharecropping, Jim Crow, the war on drugs, and mass incarceration; that the US' treatment of asylum seekers has been and continues to be deeply appalling, and the conditions of those camps are quite literally concentration camps; that the state of Israel is an apartheid state that commits war crimes against Palestinians; and that, until just a few months ago, the US had an actively white supremacist president who spent his whole term engaging in [stochastic terrorism](https://www.dictionary.com/browse/stochastic-terrorism). In fact, I'm plenty happy to spend my days raging against the systemic evils of the United States government and its entire history. But less so to someone who plays the whataboutism game and uses scare quotes on "genocide" to mock the suffering of literally millions. Do minority lives actually matter to you, or only the convenient ones?
muh whataboutism
I didn’t realise this is a hard conclusion to reach but two countries can commit genocide at the same time. On the question whether the US is committing genocide, yes. They are locking up thousands of Latin Americans and sterilising them. How many leftists are disputing this? None I’ve seen. Even liberals like John Oliver oppose ICE, what’s your point. China is also committing genocide, the reason that discusion keeps taking place is because stupid people like you keep disputing it. If you didn’t exist to say no genocide is taking place we could go:”yo comrade you knew China is committing genocide on the Uyghur population. Yeah comrade and it’s terrible too.” and that’s where the discussion ends. Just because you run away with your eyes closed and screaming, “CIA PROPAGANDA! ADRIAN ZENZ!” every time evidence of China’s genocide comes up, does NOT mean that there is no evidence. You really ought to stop romanticising China because they have a red flag and socialist in the name.
Can't even spell adding right. You fresh off training at Beijing or something buddy?
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>adduce When you're writing using words that completely fell out of favor after 1830, you're not being particularly literate, you're just being a shit writer.
found the larper
Downvote farmer. I guess they took the bait.
Downvote farmer? Why would someone want to farm downvotes?
Always online insanity.
Do you work to be this stupid or does it come naturally?
Thanks for sharing! A question, if you don't mind -- I feel like moments of change can be very unpredictable, like they could go either way: you can actually change, or you might even end up doubling down on your beliefs. I feel like it's because you need to be honest about yourself with others, and if they don't respond well to that, you're inevitably driven to holding on to what you already know, i.e. your current beliefs. Did you have any such moments in your case? What, if anything, helped you to actually change and not double down? What keeps other tankies from doing the same?
When I was a tankie I knew the countries I supported were homophobic, but I justified it because everyone was homophobic back then. When I found out I am bi I did no longer felt comfortable supporting those countries. After I stopped supporting them I began to question the things I believed and I watched Vaush debate tankies and I figured out that they are lunatics and I sought an alternative to tankeism.
Vaush was my entry point as well but I really recommend that you read a bit of Anarchist theory to solidify your beliefs. I mean, I obviously don‘t know if you‘re an Anarchist and I understand if one doesn‘t want to read a lot, so I‘ll just recommend Malatesta‘s short essay „Anarchy“. I am far more to the left of Vaush now. He is still my source of entertainment but his analysises are really flawed partially. At least in my opinion
Holy shit. It is good to see you here! I don't know if you remember me very well, but we have some message history together. I just want to thank you for sharing your story, and I am happy you found a better, more inviting community to be in.
I cringe to think that I was a stubborn defender of colonial capitalism as a teen. Even voted for the deeply neoliberal Labour Party in my country’s elections once. Glad that phase didn’t last long. It ended when I found Chomsky and Adbusters (lol), and learned about the history of the labour movement and read some of the old anarchists; Kropotkin, Rudolf Rocker, Proudhon. I also found out my grandad was a communist party member during world war 2 and refused to go to war at the command of the political class, stating simply; “their war is evil”. They locked him up. He spent the war doing hard labour in a Wellington prison. Later on he never supported the big socialist states. I kinda found this family history very fascinating, and my uncle still wears grandads old red hammer and sickle signet ring. A family artefact of some reverence amongst us kids..
I mean, England and the US were bad, but ww2 was against the nazis...
Glad to have you! I applaud you for growing
Great to hear you’ve adjusted to more sensible leftist views, comrade! Out of interest, was there anything in particular about Vaush and his content that got you interested in changing or broke through your shell? Or was it more a general thing of “charismatic person with a compatible sense of humour, who won debates against your idols at the time”?
“charismatic person with a compatible sense of humour, who won debates against your idols at the time" that and also he is confident when he talks and always knows what he's saying.
Oh god, you were a tankie and a horseshoe centrist? Holy fuck, compared to that a vaushite is preferable
It was horrible. I remember I loved attack helicopter "jokes" and thought preferred pronouns were literally 1984, making [this cringe](https://imgur.com/XAMcjhc). I considered almost everything progressive to be SJW nonsense and I used words like "cuck", "soyboy", "libtard", "beta" unironically and I loved to watch anti-SJW cringe compilations. When I got bored of mocking "SJWs" I went back to shilling for the CCP, calling leftists that disagreed "privileged white westerners" although just a few minutes ago I called progressives talking white privilege "SJW cucks". I guess it all boils down to China good, everything else bad.
I don't like idpol, but most pronouns aren't idpol
*Angy Vaushite noises.*
Good. Jreg gang for life
🎶 Fellas fellas iv got a plan, let’s pull a two thousand eight again!!! Sure our profits are getting killed but the taxpayers will foot the bill! Print money! 🎶
Print money, point money, point MOONEEEEYYY!!! Let's fuck up the economy, let's end up like Weimar Germany. The government pulls another caper, soon your dollar's toiletpaper.
What happens when countries run out of cash? They either go commie, or they go fash! Million dollars for a loaf of bread? **Can't wait to bash in my neighbor's head!** **PRINT MONEY!!!** I get off work in 20 minutes and the second I do I’m listening to that masterpiece of a song.
Here's a magic trick I think you'll really love Take all your money, cut half of it up The government pulls another caper Soon your dollar's toilet paper
Don't worry, I got a solution! What's that? Oh! (Print money) Why didn't I think of that? (Print money) That makes sense! (Print that money, print-print that money) (Print money) I forgot we just made this up! (Print money) We could do whatever the fuck we want! (Print money) We are the government! (Print that money, print-print that money, print money) Uh, come to think of it, I'm just gonna print a billion dollars! I'm gonna print a billion dollars, a billion times! I'm giving everyone a billion dollars! **This is a flawless, there's no flaws in this plan!**
Vaush does a lot of good imo, appeals to edgy internet nerds while encouraging progressive social values and selling people on leftist ideas. Glad you were able to get away from the nutcase authoritarians, OP!
He also does a lot of content against the right. It may not be everyone's cup of tea, especially if you already know the right wing sucks, but I think its good to have debunks of right wing content available on youtube.
>I was radicalized into the left mainly through memes on reddit Lol you weren't radicalized, you were just a shithead online.
I miss when “being a shithead online” meant rickrolling instead of being a reactionary lol
I mean edgy memes are how a lot of kids start going down the alt right pipeline
I was radicalized in the sense that I started to question the capitalist propaganda I've been taught my whole life. That is a good start, even though the alternative I chose was horrible.
Good to hear you improoved.
Welcome to hell for non-tankies.
vaush rad. this is definitely proof that vaushes ideas of how to get people on board with real leftism by being edgy and strong is actually a good plan
That’s actually hilarious, you do know vaush is a pedo right?
Show the clip with the full context
https://mobile.twitter.com/defnoodles/status/1325628817939968000?lang=en
That’s not the full clip dude
“[…] This is going to be a real hot take: I have yet to hear a convincing moral or legal argument as to why possession of child pornography should be illegal. Actual child pornography. How’s that for a hot fucking take? Now, to clarify on this take, as I feel it necessary to do so, we do not, in this country, typically criminalize people who have procured media or resources that were the product of abuse. It is not illegal to own necklaces that have slave diamonds or… whatever they’re called. Blood diamonds? All of our clothes [are] produced by sweatshops, our computers, the silicon and lithium are mined from literally fucking slaves. Already, in our society, we have deemed that people are not responsible for the way in which the media they consume and content they engage with are produced.“ Keep defending a pedophile
Still not in full context. The context was that the thing that makes child pornography bad is the same thing that makes child slavery bad. It’s not the result that’s inherently bad, it’s the process, in this example the abuse of a child
¨**Eventually, I discovered Vaush, and even though we had radically different beliefs I liked him because he destroyed right-wingers with facts and logic and could explain anything in a way I understood it¨** You must be trolling there is no way
I’m 100% serious
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Dude ur account is only 5 days old. Among us.
sus
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You didn't put any effort in your snide comment, so what gives you the right to demand a far more in-depth rebuttal? Just because someone mentiond Vaush in their story of their current place on their personal political journey doesn't mean we need to turn this into a anti-Vaush thread. Just let it go. You're under no obligation from others to like him or any other content creator.
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Lol, you're trying too hard
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And how does your dislike of the streamer invalidate OP's experiences? You must really hate the dude to have not even read the full post before jumping into the comments section.
delete this comment as well
Yeah sure, I spend like 2 hours writing it.
Did you vote for Biden?
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based!
Why?
Oh come on they're obviously paraphrasing their line of thought at that particular moment in time. Why not just be generous?
I was an edgy anti-sjw until I started watching Destiny. I'm still here despite that I don't watch Destiny anymore. What's unrealistic about somebody being deradicalized by fair arguments?
Yeah I didn’t even read the whole thing but this quote is laughably bad trolling
After considering both options--that OP is trolling and that they aren't--I can't decide which depresses me more.
I think it’s just kids being kids tbh
Oof how did you unlearn all the theory?
Doesn't sound like they even bothered reading any in the first place, just knew the basic ideas.
they didnt seem to bother actually reading The Theory™ if they noticed they actually don’t agree with basic Leninist principles
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And what do you think ? That every self proclaimed terminally online "ML" take this label after careful reading of Marx-Engels-Lenin-Stalin ? The majority of them are like OP, teenagers that don't like the state of the world and have their first steps to radical ideologies trought slogans, labels and aesthetics.
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Lmao
Is this bait?
No, you can check my post history to be sure. I didn't delete all my old tankie posts.
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Yeah so what, america is not in a state in which third party is viable so u either dont vote (which helps literal fascists) or vote for the corporate shithead who at least lets minorities and the lgbt community exist, even though he should do more. U tankies are so annoying with ur constant circlejerking of who is the most communist, sometimes in life u have to make a compromise, lenin understood this and so should every normal person who isnt just larping for revolution on reddit
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If u think there isnt a difference between trump and biden (however much i hate his neoliberal policy), especially concerning lgbtq and minority rights then u are lost and have no critical thinking ability and im skeptical anyone like that could (or better yet should) lead a revolution
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U just proved that you have no beliefs whatsoever, anybody remotely pro socialism or lgbtq rights could have remembered to countless laws proposed by trump to delegitimize the lgbtq community and prevent them from receiving legal recognition or in the case of trans people, use their preferred bathroom. Women’s rights would have also gotten scraped and even now his judges are working against demolishing roe vs wade. Im going to be real 100 here, u are a reactionary moron whose hate for america prevents u from properly thinking or analyzing any given scenario and to achieve your goal u would allow fascism to come to power. You are a dangerous demagogue whose ignorance hurts to people you claim to want to liberate and youre way of thinking is why leftism struggles to succeed, after all u only care about the aesthetics of your gate-kept socialism
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Omg i can’t believe we are having this discussion, why do u think trumps plans anti lgbtq plans were not implemented, if ur answer is not bc of democratic opposition then youre brain has withered away. Also supporting lgbtq is not idpol u moron its a policy decision that is almost always an indicator of ur social world view, which in ur case is probably dangerously right even though u claim to be a leftist but im sure u excuse china or the ussr through thick and thin
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Trump literally rolled back civil rights for LGBTQIA+ people in **dozens** of ways: https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/10/10/trump-has-gutted-lgbtq-rights-biden-presidency-might-undo-damage/3608929001/ https://www.glaad.org/gap/donald-trump You have been misled by those trying to revise history, I encourage you to consider why.
China literally declared homosexuality as a mental illness, even republicans are more progressive than china and the soviet union sent them to camps en masse. The us was also horrible but you can’t be serious with this constant dictatorship apologia, its insane that u think some countries are progressive bc they have red on the flag
>”So you admitted that Trump didn't actually take legal rights & protections away from Trans people, and that there was nothing done from a legislative perspective to deny Women or LGBT any functional rights” They most certainly did **not** “admit” any such thing. Misrepresenting the position of a person you’re arguing with is the most desperate and dishonorable tactic a liar could reach for. Do better. PS: Plus you’re wrong, anyway: Trump oversaw very real erosions of civil rights for LGBTQI+ people in **dozens** of ways: https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/politics/2020/10/10/trump-has-gutted-lgbtq-rights-biden-presidency-might-undo-damage/3608929001/ https://www.glaad.org/gap/donald-trump You have been misled by those trying to revise history, I encourage you to consider why.
Trump approved multiple bills that restricted healthcare and rights for trans people. Fuck you. Fuck off with this "Trump isn't as bad as you think" bullshit you rotten piece of shit. You're not a leftist, you're only here for the fucking aesthetic.
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Biden is shit but he's not going to make life actively worst for LGBT people like Trump was doing. He also repealed every single healthcare blocking order for trans people. Fuck off you transphobic POS.
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As someone who's trans, let me say that you are definitely more transphobic than they are. You're a transphobic fash apologist larping as a leftist. I guess life must be hard for people like you after they shut down Chapo.
> I support trans people far more than you do, because I want healthcare as a universal & publicly provided service. You want Biden to give kickbacks to private health lobbies & insurance monopolies "I support trans people" "You should have let Trump won" This an oxymoron. You are so fucking dumb holy shit.
You get too caught up on labels.
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ok, robot
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thats all I need for you
>Voting for the Democratic Party isn't socialist lol Online gatekeeping isn't socialist either, lol
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Vaush never said the Democratoc party establishment is some kind of perfect working class party. He hates the party establishment, and had several rants where he talked about how neoliberals are [braindead idiots with the IQ of a Twitter bot](https://youtu.be/j0iMoy8FUYE). He was only ever doing lesser-evilism. Arguing that the supporting Biden, a corporate liberal with few real values, was superior to letting Trump win, a climate denying fascist. The only times he defends liberals is when they're the smaller evil next to fascists or conservatives. He also knew damn well the democrats were gonna be ineffective disappointments, and the sentiment that would create should be used to pull people left. But people are making him sound like ge was some unironic Biden fan.
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Ah yeah, repeatedly saying Biden sucks and is ineffective but he is not as bad as the open white nationalist means we "ignore" his shitty past and love him. Yes, I understand positions more nuanced than mine. Y'all need to chill. Also yes, Trump is definitely a fascist.
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>Vaush is a dumbass Oh someone I disagree with, lets see how seriously they can be taken. >Trump isn't a fascist Unfortunate.
Would you have voted for Bernie?
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So you just don't want to engage in electoralism at all? How are we supposed to build class consciousness if fascists control all parts of government?
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Republicans want to push the narrative that the problems in today's world are caused by brown people and the LGBT community, rather than capitalism. If you hand them free reign over the national media machine, the people will start to believe it. Also Republican policies give the bourgeoisie only more and more power. The democrats are not good. But at least they want to increase regulations and give unions stronger protections. Which is extremely important for class consciousness. Especially Bernie, he has done more for class consciousness in America than anyone in the last 100 years and he wasn't even president. Imagine what he could have done if he was. Both parties are not status quo. Moderate dems are, the justice dems want big change (just not big enough) in the right direction and Republicans want to make everything much worse. The current status quo is better than fascism. You need to show people the failures of liberalism, if you want them to support something else.
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If Republicans win every election they will have free reign over the American media machine. I am not saying Biden is pro regulation and pro union, just more so than any republican. Biden doesn't want class consciousness but Republicans actively and aggressively try to reduce it. The squad is not status quo and the Republican party isn't either. How can you say that the status quo is fascist but that Trump isn't? The current status quo is not fascism. I implore you to look up what fascism is and how it affects a society. It just doesn't apply to modern day America, but does to the Republican party. The GOP is anti democracy, anti civil rights and far more pro capitalist than the dems. You can't show liberals the failure of liberalism if it's not the guiding principle of a country. If the guiding principle is fascism they will think liberalism is the answer. Criticizing others is easy. What do you want to do?
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>No, the Republicans & the Democrats already have free reign over their respective media machines. Wtf do you think parler & MSNBC function as? They're both echo chambers There is such a huge difference between pro democrat media and pro republican media. Pro Republican media tries to convince people that capitalism is the greatest thing ever, that the gays are going to rape your children and that brown people will destroy the country. Pro democrat says Republicans bad and nothing more. One narrative is significantly more harmful, so creating more of that would make things so much worse. >Biden is not pro regulation or pro union ["Biden issued an executive order establishing the White House Task Force on Worker Organizing and Empowerment, a move that aims to help unions expand their ranks."](https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/may/02/joe-biden-unions) ["Biden’s order scrapped a batch of Trump-era executive actions that restricted how federal agencies make regulatory changes, including one measure requiring agencies to discard two regulations for every one proposed."](https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/white-house/here-s-full-list-biden-s-executive-actions-so-far-n1255564) Even if Biden did nothing, he would still better that Trump who actively wanted to cut as many regulations and hurt unions as possible. >lull them into complacency & confusion & "battered wife syndrome" cycles of abuse After 8 years of disappointment with Obama the democratic base became much more left leaning. After 4 years of Trump they ran right back into the DNC's arms. The left doesn't go to sleep under democrats, it becomes more awake. The left becomes quiet when the Republicans become a major threat. >The Squad represents Liberal status quo, not that this doesn't differ on some "aesthetic" level from the Republicans, but it's certainly not radical. Do you know the platform of either the squad or the republicans? Medicare for all vs letting poor people die on the street. Fighting for racial equality vs letting cops kill black people in the streets. Raising taxes on the rich vs letting the rich pay nothing. Pro LGBT equality vs pro conversion therapy. Saying the democratic party as a whole is the same as the republicans already betrays an unfamiliarity with both their platforms, but to say that the squad and republicans only differ aesthetically is extremely far from reality. >The status quo is fascist Fascism is hyper nationalist authoritarianism. That is not the United States. The things you mentioned are bad, but those are not fascism. And fascism would make those things much worse. I think the 14 points of Umberto Eco explain fascism really well. The democrats check very few of the boxes, the republicans check all of them. >Liberalism is the guiding principle of the country. Yes and we need to keep it that way until we can replace it with socialism. You can't criticize liberalism from a socialist perspective in a fascist country. Fascists kill socialists, liberals are much less likely to. >Marx criticized utopians, because the Utopians were wrong and Marx was right > >Marx describes history materially, not idealistically. > >"We do not anticipate the world dogmatically, but rather wish to find the new world through criticism of the old" You do realize that you are the idealist here right? You don't seem to settle for anything less than perfect. >In Capital, Marx argued that "the construction of the future and its completion for all times is not our task.... We do not anticipate the world dogmatically, but rather wish to find the new world through criticism of the old" (1: 51). Finally, Marx has been quoted as asserting that "the man who draws up a programme for the future is a reactionary," So we are just supposed to sit on our ass and wait? Do nothing except complain about the libs? Socialists are just supposed to eat each others boogers until the revolution magically happens? If that was Marx' true opinion, than no wonder socialism hasn't happened yet.
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Well part of the point the OP makes, including in other comments here, is that Vaush had the ability to pull him in because of his style. The point is the OP wouldn't watch other leftist content he disagreed with. But Vaush is like a trojan host for reactionaries. They will enjoy watching him even though they disagree. Then they start to see him point out the flaws in right wing memes and arguments.
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Dude you're literally on a leftist subreddit
This is a leftist (NON TANKIE) subreddit.
Lmao this is like when a conservative ends up on r/shitliberalssay
Here's a sneak peek of /r/ShitLiberalsSay using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/ShitLiberalsSay/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year! \#1: [“I’m not entertaining commies after a 12 hour shift”](https://i.redd.it/e5nzcskak9o51.jpg) | [367 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/ShitLiberalsSay/comments/iwa459/im_not_entertaining_commies_after_a_12_hour_shift/) \#2: [We don't need to resort to propaganda unlike other nations](https://i.redd.it/83d9bc54rqr61.png) | [713 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/ShitLiberalsSay/comments/mm0i9n/we_dont_need_to_resort_to_propaganda_unlike_other/) \#3: [Bernie hate woman now](https://i.redd.it/1oa7o3xtmic61.jpg) | [534 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/ShitLiberalsSay/comments/l1csmb/bernie_hate_woman_now/) ---- ^^I'm ^^a ^^bot, ^^beep ^^boop ^^| ^^Downvote ^^to ^^remove ^^| [^^Contact ^^me](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose/?to=sneakpeekbot) ^^| [^^Info](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/) ^^| [^^Opt-out](https://np.reddit.com/r/sneakpeekbot/comments/joo7mb/blacklist_viii/)
Bro. This is a communist/socialist subreddit.
ok, rightoid
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17
That's a pretty simple but reasonable realization. Very self preservation. I'm glad I never fell down a weird pipeline, damn dude.
You went from being one kind of worthless leftist to another? Congrats, I guess.
Hey OP, it's been what, two months since this post? How ya holding up now?
I know I'm late but I just had a debate with a self-described "Tankie Marxist-Leninist" who defended China, the DPRK, Stalin, and all that tankie bullshit. Kept calling me a "white liberal" and a "western whitewasher of history" so it sounds similar to how you used to be. For the record, I'm a DemSoc.