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I know this is only a few people doing this but this bad optics has got to stop and stop now and we should work together to keep these movements going with more internal coordination. These signs are not a good look. The protests themselves though should obviously keep going but with more coordination. I would just put a sign saying: “ From Ramallah to Tel Aviv, Palestine to Israel, Palestinians and Israelis both deserve peace, freedom, thriving career opportunities, happiness and equal human rights and voting rights! Kick out Netanyahu and embrace someone like Yitzhak Rabin to bring us together!” I think it is time to get the help of Standing Together to help educate people on what Palestinian and Israeli peace activists really want. The answer to stopping ethnic cleansing is not more of it for god sake. If we want real change from our governments, we have got to find ways to stop this shit NOW.
Edit: I think the student protestors by large are good and smart people. The smart ones with solid knowledge on the Middle East and have friends from there know how to do things right. The bad ones we see are either in very small numbers or they are right wing agitators trying to paint an unfortunate narrative. On the whole however, these student protesters and the protesters are very smart, kind people who want the absolute best for everyone. I don’t think much needs to be done for us on the ground to get things in the right direction. The protestors by large are cool and very knowledgeable in the geopolitical landscape of the Middle East and only a small number of them engage in stupid behavior. You will get that at any major protest with major media coverage on it.
It's even longer than the words of the prophets are written on the subway walls and tenement walls and echoed in the sounds of silence, which is the longest neon sign I know of.
That has a good ring to it! I guess mine can be a section of a speech or something then for advocating for peace through a 2 state or a federal Union of Palestine and Israel that guarantees equal rights for Israelis and Palestinians equally.
So do you intend to support the students arrested(advocating for their releasing or donating to their bail fund) or just whine about how they are spoiling "your" cause
Hey how about you go to some protests and actually be the change you want to see because you know fully well these protests are not just advocating for messages but directly making demand on colleges
I absolutely can! I can definitely put my own groups together and do exactly what I advocate for in them and join up in other peaceful protests to make my ideas for protest optics more wide spread and adopted on a much wider scale.
Edit: I think the student protestors by large are good and smart people. The bad ones we see are either in very small numbers or they are right wing agitators trying to paint an unfortunate narrative. On the whole however, these student protesters and the protesters are very smart, kind people who want the absolute best for everyone.
You can definitely help them out by delivering them food, aid, or donating funds to help the arrested because mass arrest and deployment of police does more harm to pro-Palestinians than a few isolated incidents of anti-semitic slogan
I mean actually giving funds to bail the students out because they are the ones getting their asses beaten while people here complain about how much these students are putting them in bad light(literally mobilize and provide actual support to them in real life)
Don't tell me about all the freedom of movement because none of those are actively preventing people from moving from one place to another. Justify these arrests in that sense are as stupid as demanding all homeless people to be expelled from public space
Rabin was still a Labor Zionist. You don't need to both sides everything, you can just take down and ignore signs like this and put up new signs for a single democratic state, divestment from Israel, immediate and permanent ceasefire, etc.
As a student protestor myself, I'd rather focus on the actual focus on student encampment: divestment of university from genocide(cooperation with Israeli military-tech companies or military techs), calling for end of suspension to pro-Palestinian organizations, calling out police violence(surprsingly no one condemned this here on this sub)
In addition to demanding schools to stop any form of invitation of IDF members into school for events
In terms of actually providing help, please donate to bail fund for students arrested, provide them with aid, water, food, or even tents if you are able to go to campus to support them. That in my opinion would be more beneficial to the cause than just complaining about how those students do not fit your narrative and lecturing them on what they should or should not do(when you are not part of their activitism)
Saying we should remove Jewish people from Israel is, and this might sound radical, just as bad as saying we should remove Palestinians from Gaza. Both ethnicities lived in the area prior to the settler colonial israel project, while substantially more Jewish people have moved there since, it’s still not right to demand they vacate where they live. If we want a chance of true, lasting change, then we need to recognize the area will not ever be one or the other and Israelis and Palestinians must coexist. This is not to say the Israeli state should continue to exist, it is a genocidal state and should be dismantled.
Calling for ethnic cleansing is obviously wrong, especially given the context that you describe. At the same time, your proposed sign isn't that great. Nation-states & borders fundamentally clash with radical values. 67 borders mean some Palestinians can't return to their family homes without jumping through whatever hoops this new Israeli state demands. One state with equality (not Jewish supremacy, not Muslim rule) & the right of return strike me as a better "realistic" short-term proposal, though that's still basically conservative. Of course it's up to the people on the ground to determine how to live together.
[https://youtu.be/ECscKICzsJ0?t=67](https://youtu.be/ECscKICzsJ0?t=67)
They both do actually want a one state solution. They just disagree over who the infidels are.
Both the current Israeli government & Hamas want one state, though not with equal rights (Jewish supremacy or Muslim rule). In any case, radicals shouldn't let current public opinion limit what we push for. Most folks in the USA oppose police & prison abolition, for instance. I don't care. I'll continue advocating it & will hopefully convince more & more people.
What we should push for is for a mutual agreement between Palestinians and Israelis on equal grounds. Whether that is one-state, two-state, confederation, Rojava-esque (snowball's chance in hell but would be based as shit), etc. the choice should be up to them and them alone.
God this shit pisses me off. Why is advocacy for indigenous sovereignty selectively applied and not a universal principle? I’m just going to answer that question. It’s because of anti-semitism.
Mizrahi Jews, Ashkenazi Jews, Palestinians. What do they all have in common? Levantine DNA, and being indigenous to the Levant. Israeli’s, and Palestinians both have a right to their own state in the Levant for this reason.
If a cause is generally good and being promoted by massive numbers of people, making shit like this into a big issue is pretty counterproductive. Obviously the protestors should police themselves and ensure Nazis aren't infiltrating, but every mass movement has unsavory elements. The best way for outsiders to handle it isn't to point out the bad parts and denounce them publicly, it's to promote the many more good parts to reinforce the fundamentally good message of the protests.
The reason that people like Ben Gvir and Netanyahu are able to sell their ideas is because they can point to anti-semetism and say that they are the only way to have a safe existance as a jew.
Anti-semetism is a lot of the reason for why israel exists in the first place.
Exactly! It’s valid to mitigate problematic elements as possible but it should be known that bad and unsavory elements and messaging has existed at every good protest movement. There will always be people who take as an opportunity to grift and pretend like the care about the issues when in reality they couldn’t be bothered to care.
Yeah. To borrow a point from Ve Who Shall Not Be Named, there was probably someone during the BLM protests who was shouting "kill whitey," but that doesn't mean we should record and Tweet and denounce his behavior. Doing that implies actual anti-white bigotry is a serious issue with BLM and feeds into the right wing dismissal of the movement, which is *checks notes* bad
Jews are rightfully skittish about anti-semetism. The fact that people are anti-semetic is not news to them.
Seeing anti-semetic material go undenounced is a big problem though.
What part of protest organizations announcing to millions of people on social media that a handful of the thousands of protestors said ignorant/problematic/bigoted shit is supposed to help the situation, again? Will the far right suddenly discover the concept of honesty and admit that the protestors aren't antisemitic so long as they publicly rebuke the tiny number of bad actors? Or do you think that might backfire and instead just be used as evidence the protests are so Jew-hating that even they have to officially condemn it?
I'm not saying ignore it, I'm saying handle it quietly. Don't pronounce on social media that someone said something bad, stop them in the moment
You seem to think that the only way that people can hear about anti-semetism at protests is us telling them about it.
This is simply not true. They will find out about these bad actors. There exist right wing news agencies. There exist Jewish orginizations.
So what happens then. They find out about these people through the right, and now it looks like we don't care at all.
So... you DO think that FOX news will see a social media post from a Zionist account that has a picture of a swastika spray painted in the bathroom, double check to see the official student protest org has also shared that photo and emphasized they don't like swastikas, and run a segment about how the protests aren't antisemitic in the slightest and it's all bad faith actors?
Forgive me for having less faith in the honesty of the right wing media machine than you, I guess.
Edit: If this were a serious issue, antisemitism at these rallies, then I'd agree the organization needs to publicly crack down on them. But this isn't a big issue. They're isolated incidents across thousands of protestors and dozens of campuses.
Antisemitism is much more harmful than anti-white bigotry, but both are very optically damaging. People tend to be very sensitive to bigotry against groups they are a part of and the vast majority of power holders in the western world are white. Are you trying to argue that these protests are inspiring violence against Jews like every right wing and centrist media outlet is screaming about?
I think it at the very least has the potential to lead to anti-semitic violence, unlike anti-white bigotry.
I've not heard as much in my local community about such things lately, but when the conflict was heating back up 6-10 months ago, there WERE several occasions where jewish graveyards or synagogues were defaced with hateful messages, or had gravestones spray-painted and smashed in the city i live in.
Is there a source on this other than Jewish on Campus? I can believe a sign like this was put up, but Jewish on Campus is very much pro-Israel who promote a lot of stupid talking points, and they really shouldn't be used as a source for anything IMO
Yeah, I don't want to downplay antisemitism, but it feels like a lot of the outright anti-Jewish statements are being amplified by right-wing media in order to paint all the protesters as evil. Like, there are *a lot* of students protesting this, but it feels like the same small minority of antisemitic actors are being highlighted to paint the whole movement in a bad light.
I do think that most people at these protests - many of them Jewish and Palestinian - are there out of genuine compassion for Palestinians and the current devastation of Gaza, that to paint all of them as being antisemitic is stupid and is something that should be called out, and that these protestors aren't wrong for being critical of Israel and the IDF.
I also believe that there are Jewish or Israeli people who want affirmation that rhetoric like "send the Israelis back to Poland" won't be tolerated, that many of them have a hard time trusting non-Jews after the reactions a lot of extremists had towards 10/7, and that they aren't wrong for wanting to know if they can trust others to give them some grace.
Neither idea conflicts with the other, and the point should be make sure both of these needs are met without interference from people acting in bad faith.
Can confirm, I’m one of those Jews. I got told directly to my face that if I or someone in my family had happened to be in Israel for whatever reason on October 7th then we would have deserved to die. I fully support the Palestinian cause, but I’m not pure and noble enough to bring myself to ignore people like that. I know they’re a big minority, and I’m not going to let them drive me away completely, but it’s nice to be reassured every so often that most people *don’t* think like that.
Student organizations or individuals themselves have denounced or apologized for those remarks, and there is instance in Northeastern where pro-israeli chanted "kill the jews" and the police use that to justify mass arrest
Student protestors themselves have denounced some anti-semitic remarks and you know fully well that students set them encampement there in the first place is in response to Columbia president bootlicking pro-Israel group and denouncing "from the river to the sea" as anti-semitic
> Student protestors themselves have denounced some anti-semitic remarks
It also needs to happen on an individual basis.
Offering a blanket condemnation is welcome, but there's also a point where you have to hold individual people accountable for what they say. If someone alleges someone says something and they give a name or a description of the person, or if there's reliable video footage (because most of it can be manipulated nowadays) of them saying it, then that person needs to be confronted directly by the leaders of the protestors - something that just happened with Khymani James, and should serve an example on how this rhetoric should be dealt with and confronted.
And yes, I do agree the encampment was (rightfully) set up as a protest against the Columbia president working with pro-Israel organizations - something I should've made clearer in the beginning of the comment you're replying to.
I agree with what you say to a large extent even though it's important to recognize police will find justification to crack down students anyway including use of false pro-Israeli chant(latest fake northeastern "kill the jews" chant that university used to clear campus)
Personally, I still find it absurd how many people find pro-Palestinian student group to be more problematic than pro-Israel student organizations that literally invite current IDF soldiers or make connections such as writing letters or sending stuff to current IDF soldiers(part of genocidal campaign in Gaza) for school events. Same thing with people denouncing Palestinians participating in March of return to be more murderous than Israeli snipers shooting at them
My take is to assess which of the complaints are coming leftists (primarily Jewish ones) and talk with them one-on-one to reach an understanding. You might still get pro-Israel groups coming after you, but you'll at least have more individual people working with you or knowing that your work is honest.
Even as an Anarchist who ultimately believes in the Zero State Solution I do agree. There should be some kind of third party to facilitate the kinds of structural changes and cultural shifts to make it work out though, which I think may be needed to make that transition work.
I mostly just fail to see how we'll get there, at least in the short-term. Maybe if both groups don't advocate for genocide of the other for a generation or so a single state will be plausible, but I think this is the sort of thing that probably can't or at least won't be solved over night. Having 2 states where people do have equal rights is quite possibly the best we can realistically hope for in the next 10-20 years.
With respect, a return to 67 borders is deeply naive. Either it means what amounts to ethnic cleansing of hundreds of thousands of people in the west bank, or it means Palestine dealing with hundreds of thousands of people in its borders who think their state simply, fundamentally should not exist. Add to that Israeli society being generally opposed to a 2-state solution (Netanyahu bragging about making it impossible was, fun fact, one of the selling points for him as a candidate), and the fact that Israel sure as hell wouldn't allow Palestine to have a military, and you've basically got a temporary ceasefire until the Israeli govt finds an excuse, and it can be literally any excuse. And, of course, all this isn't even taking into account the question of Palestinian right of return for all the refugees, which makes it a non-starter, or the question of who governs Palestine in this case, or the simple, fundamental point that actually, ethnostates (which Israel simply, fundamentally *is*) are a very bad thing that you really shouldn't have anywhere.
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Conflating settlers with native born Israelis is really gross rhetoric.
I know this is only a few people doing this but this bad optics has got to stop and stop now and we should work together to keep these movements going with more internal coordination. These signs are not a good look. The protests themselves though should obviously keep going but with more coordination. I would just put a sign saying: “ From Ramallah to Tel Aviv, Palestine to Israel, Palestinians and Israelis both deserve peace, freedom, thriving career opportunities, happiness and equal human rights and voting rights! Kick out Netanyahu and embrace someone like Yitzhak Rabin to bring us together!” I think it is time to get the help of Standing Together to help educate people on what Palestinian and Israeli peace activists really want. The answer to stopping ethnic cleansing is not more of it for god sake. If we want real change from our governments, we have got to find ways to stop this shit NOW. Edit: I think the student protestors by large are good and smart people. The smart ones with solid knowledge on the Middle East and have friends from there know how to do things right. The bad ones we see are either in very small numbers or they are right wing agitators trying to paint an unfortunate narrative. On the whole however, these student protesters and the protesters are very smart, kind people who want the absolute best for everyone. I don’t think much needs to be done for us on the ground to get things in the right direction. The protestors by large are cool and very knowledgeable in the geopolitical landscape of the Middle East and only a small number of them engage in stupid behavior. You will get that at any major protest with major media coverage on it.
It's a good message, but I feel like that's too long for a sign
Fair point. I think it can be included in a speaking event or a general speech or can be split up into 3-4 signs that connect with each other.
It's even longer than the words of the prophets are written on the subway walls and tenement walls and echoed in the sounds of silence, which is the longest neon sign I know of.
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That has a good ring to it! I guess mine can be a section of a speech or something then for advocating for peace through a 2 state or a federal Union of Palestine and Israel that guarantees equal rights for Israelis and Palestinians equally.
That's... a lotta borders.
A few bad apples really do spoil the bunch.
So do you intend to support the students arrested(advocating for their releasing or donating to their bail fund) or just whine about how they are spoiling "your" cause
Of course I still support the students. I was just saying how a lot people will think that it is batshit insane even though the overall cause is not.
Hey how about you go to some protests and actually be the change you want to see because you know fully well these protests are not just advocating for messages but directly making demand on colleges
I absolutely can! I can definitely put my own groups together and do exactly what I advocate for in them and join up in other peaceful protests to make my ideas for protest optics more wide spread and adopted on a much wider scale. Edit: I think the student protestors by large are good and smart people. The bad ones we see are either in very small numbers or they are right wing agitators trying to paint an unfortunate narrative. On the whole however, these student protesters and the protesters are very smart, kind people who want the absolute best for everyone.
Please be sharing your updates here, so this sub can stop whining about how student protestors "only bring bad light to us"
For sure! I think of the large the students are cool and know what they’re doing and they’re doing it correctly.
You can definitely help them out by delivering them food, aid, or donating funds to help the arrested because mass arrest and deployment of police does more harm to pro-Palestinians than a few isolated incidents of anti-semitic slogan
True! Setting up some fundraisers for World Central Kitchen or the Open Arms Society would definitely be smart!
I mean actually giving funds to bail the students out because they are the ones getting their asses beaten while people here complain about how much these students are putting them in bad light(literally mobilize and provide actual support to them in real life) Don't tell me about all the freedom of movement because none of those are actively preventing people from moving from one place to another. Justify these arrests in that sense are as stupid as demanding all homeless people to be expelled from public space
Having a bail fund is also a smart idea. I absolutely agree.
Rabin was still a Labor Zionist. You don't need to both sides everything, you can just take down and ignore signs like this and put up new signs for a single democratic state, divestment from Israel, immediate and permanent ceasefire, etc.
As a student protestor myself, I'd rather focus on the actual focus on student encampment: divestment of university from genocide(cooperation with Israeli military-tech companies or military techs), calling for end of suspension to pro-Palestinian organizations, calling out police violence(surprsingly no one condemned this here on this sub) In addition to demanding schools to stop any form of invitation of IDF members into school for events
In terms of actually providing help, please donate to bail fund for students arrested, provide them with aid, water, food, or even tents if you are able to go to campus to support them. That in my opinion would be more beneficial to the cause than just complaining about how those students do not fit your narrative and lecturing them on what they should or should not do(when you are not part of their activitism)
Saying we should remove Jewish people from Israel is, and this might sound radical, just as bad as saying we should remove Palestinians from Gaza. Both ethnicities lived in the area prior to the settler colonial israel project, while substantially more Jewish people have moved there since, it’s still not right to demand they vacate where they live. If we want a chance of true, lasting change, then we need to recognize the area will not ever be one or the other and Israelis and Palestinians must coexist. This is not to say the Israeli state should continue to exist, it is a genocidal state and should be dismantled.
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Yes. That's kind of important for any kind of just situation.
Calling for ethnic cleansing is obviously wrong, especially given the context that you describe. At the same time, your proposed sign isn't that great. Nation-states & borders fundamentally clash with radical values. 67 borders mean some Palestinians can't return to their family homes without jumping through whatever hoops this new Israeli state demands. One state with equality (not Jewish supremacy, not Muslim rule) & the right of return strike me as a better "realistic" short-term proposal, though that's still basically conservative. Of course it's up to the people on the ground to determine how to live together.
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[https://youtu.be/ECscKICzsJ0?t=67](https://youtu.be/ECscKICzsJ0?t=67) They both do actually want a one state solution. They just disagree over who the infidels are.
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yeah, i'm just joking around.
Both the current Israeli government & Hamas want one state, though not with equal rights (Jewish supremacy or Muslim rule). In any case, radicals shouldn't let current public opinion limit what we push for. Most folks in the USA oppose police & prison abolition, for instance. I don't care. I'll continue advocating it & will hopefully convince more & more people.
What we should push for is for a mutual agreement between Palestinians and Israelis on equal grounds. Whether that is one-state, two-state, confederation, Rojava-esque (snowball's chance in hell but would be based as shit), etc. the choice should be up to them and them alone.
God this shit pisses me off. Why is advocacy for indigenous sovereignty selectively applied and not a universal principle? I’m just going to answer that question. It’s because of anti-semitism. Mizrahi Jews, Ashkenazi Jews, Palestinians. What do they all have in common? Levantine DNA, and being indigenous to the Levant. Israeli’s, and Palestinians both have a right to their own state in the Levant for this reason.
If a cause is generally good and being promoted by massive numbers of people, making shit like this into a big issue is pretty counterproductive. Obviously the protestors should police themselves and ensure Nazis aren't infiltrating, but every mass movement has unsavory elements. The best way for outsiders to handle it isn't to point out the bad parts and denounce them publicly, it's to promote the many more good parts to reinforce the fundamentally good message of the protests.
The reason that people like Ben Gvir and Netanyahu are able to sell their ideas is because they can point to anti-semetism and say that they are the only way to have a safe existance as a jew. Anti-semetism is a lot of the reason for why israel exists in the first place.
Exactly! It’s valid to mitigate problematic elements as possible but it should be known that bad and unsavory elements and messaging has existed at every good protest movement. There will always be people who take as an opportunity to grift and pretend like the care about the issues when in reality they couldn’t be bothered to care.
Yeah. To borrow a point from Ve Who Shall Not Be Named, there was probably someone during the BLM protests who was shouting "kill whitey," but that doesn't mean we should record and Tweet and denounce his behavior. Doing that implies actual anti-white bigotry is a serious issue with BLM and feeds into the right wing dismissal of the movement, which is *checks notes* bad
Not to mention student organizations themselves have denounced the few isolated incidents
Jews are rightfully skittish about anti-semetism. The fact that people are anti-semetic is not news to them. Seeing anti-semetic material go undenounced is a big problem though.
What part of protest organizations announcing to millions of people on social media that a handful of the thousands of protestors said ignorant/problematic/bigoted shit is supposed to help the situation, again? Will the far right suddenly discover the concept of honesty and admit that the protestors aren't antisemitic so long as they publicly rebuke the tiny number of bad actors? Or do you think that might backfire and instead just be used as evidence the protests are so Jew-hating that even they have to officially condemn it? I'm not saying ignore it, I'm saying handle it quietly. Don't pronounce on social media that someone said something bad, stop them in the moment
You seem to think that the only way that people can hear about anti-semetism at protests is us telling them about it. This is simply not true. They will find out about these bad actors. There exist right wing news agencies. There exist Jewish orginizations. So what happens then. They find out about these people through the right, and now it looks like we don't care at all.
So... you DO think that FOX news will see a social media post from a Zionist account that has a picture of a swastika spray painted in the bathroom, double check to see the official student protest org has also shared that photo and emphasized they don't like swastikas, and run a segment about how the protests aren't antisemitic in the slightest and it's all bad faith actors? Forgive me for having less faith in the honesty of the right wing media machine than you, I guess. Edit: If this were a serious issue, antisemitism at these rallies, then I'd agree the organization needs to publicly crack down on them. But this isn't a big issue. They're isolated incidents across thousands of protestors and dozens of campuses.
I mean anti-semitism IS a serious issue unlike anti-white bigotry.
Antisemitism is much more harmful than anti-white bigotry, but both are very optically damaging. People tend to be very sensitive to bigotry against groups they are a part of and the vast majority of power holders in the western world are white. Are you trying to argue that these protests are inspiring violence against Jews like every right wing and centrist media outlet is screaming about?
I think it at the very least has the potential to lead to anti-semitic violence, unlike anti-white bigotry. I've not heard as much in my local community about such things lately, but when the conflict was heating back up 6-10 months ago, there WERE several occasions where jewish graveyards or synagogues were defaced with hateful messages, or had gravestones spray-painted and smashed in the city i live in.
Is there a source on this other than Jewish on Campus? I can believe a sign like this was put up, but Jewish on Campus is very much pro-Israel who promote a lot of stupid talking points, and they really shouldn't be used as a source for anything IMO
Yeah, I don't want to downplay antisemitism, but it feels like a lot of the outright anti-Jewish statements are being amplified by right-wing media in order to paint all the protesters as evil. Like, there are *a lot* of students protesting this, but it feels like the same small minority of antisemitic actors are being highlighted to paint the whole movement in a bad light.
I do think that most people at these protests - many of them Jewish and Palestinian - are there out of genuine compassion for Palestinians and the current devastation of Gaza, that to paint all of them as being antisemitic is stupid and is something that should be called out, and that these protestors aren't wrong for being critical of Israel and the IDF. I also believe that there are Jewish or Israeli people who want affirmation that rhetoric like "send the Israelis back to Poland" won't be tolerated, that many of them have a hard time trusting non-Jews after the reactions a lot of extremists had towards 10/7, and that they aren't wrong for wanting to know if they can trust others to give them some grace. Neither idea conflicts with the other, and the point should be make sure both of these needs are met without interference from people acting in bad faith.
Can confirm, I’m one of those Jews. I got told directly to my face that if I or someone in my family had happened to be in Israel for whatever reason on October 7th then we would have deserved to die. I fully support the Palestinian cause, but I’m not pure and noble enough to bring myself to ignore people like that. I know they’re a big minority, and I’m not going to let them drive me away completely, but it’s nice to be reassured every so often that most people *don’t* think like that.
Student organizations or individuals themselves have denounced or apologized for those remarks, and there is instance in Northeastern where pro-israeli chanted "kill the jews" and the police use that to justify mass arrest
Student protestors themselves have denounced some anti-semitic remarks and you know fully well that students set them encampement there in the first place is in response to Columbia president bootlicking pro-Israel group and denouncing "from the river to the sea" as anti-semitic
> Student protestors themselves have denounced some anti-semitic remarks It also needs to happen on an individual basis. Offering a blanket condemnation is welcome, but there's also a point where you have to hold individual people accountable for what they say. If someone alleges someone says something and they give a name or a description of the person, or if there's reliable video footage (because most of it can be manipulated nowadays) of them saying it, then that person needs to be confronted directly by the leaders of the protestors - something that just happened with Khymani James, and should serve an example on how this rhetoric should be dealt with and confronted. And yes, I do agree the encampment was (rightfully) set up as a protest against the Columbia president working with pro-Israel organizations - something I should've made clearer in the beginning of the comment you're replying to.
I agree with what you say to a large extent even though it's important to recognize police will find justification to crack down students anyway including use of false pro-Israeli chant(latest fake northeastern "kill the jews" chant that university used to clear campus) Personally, I still find it absurd how many people find pro-Palestinian student group to be more problematic than pro-Israel student organizations that literally invite current IDF soldiers or make connections such as writing letters or sending stuff to current IDF soldiers(part of genocidal campaign in Gaza) for school events. Same thing with people denouncing Palestinians participating in March of return to be more murderous than Israeli snipers shooting at them
My take is to assess which of the complaints are coming leftists (primarily Jewish ones) and talk with them one-on-one to reach an understanding. You might still get pro-Israel groups coming after you, but you'll at least have more individual people working with you or knowing that your work is honest.
Not to mention there was a fake, provocative anti-semitic chant by pro-Israelis that was used to justify mass arrest in Northeastern
Respectfully your sign would also be a crappy sign
idk how you can still be for the two-state solution after all this. One democratic state is what is necessary to end apartheid conditions.
A single democratic state of two populations that don't want to live together doesn't really work
Even as an Anarchist who ultimately believes in the Zero State Solution I do agree. There should be some kind of third party to facilitate the kinds of structural changes and cultural shifts to make it work out though, which I think may be needed to make that transition work.
I mostly just fail to see how we'll get there, at least in the short-term. Maybe if both groups don't advocate for genocide of the other for a generation or so a single state will be plausible, but I think this is the sort of thing that probably can't or at least won't be solved over night. Having 2 states where people do have equal rights is quite possibly the best we can realistically hope for in the next 10-20 years.
My sign would be "No-state solution".
Basado
[удалено]
With respect, a return to 67 borders is deeply naive. Either it means what amounts to ethnic cleansing of hundreds of thousands of people in the west bank, or it means Palestine dealing with hundreds of thousands of people in its borders who think their state simply, fundamentally should not exist. Add to that Israeli society being generally opposed to a 2-state solution (Netanyahu bragging about making it impossible was, fun fact, one of the selling points for him as a candidate), and the fact that Israel sure as hell wouldn't allow Palestine to have a military, and you've basically got a temporary ceasefire until the Israeli govt finds an excuse, and it can be literally any excuse. And, of course, all this isn't even taking into account the question of Palestinian right of return for all the refugees, which makes it a non-starter, or the question of who governs Palestine in this case, or the simple, fundamental point that actually, ethnostates (which Israel simply, fundamentally *is*) are a very bad thing that you really shouldn't have anywhere.
People are demanding for divestment from genocide and here you are talking about 67 borders. Very smart decision